picking up after one's self
denisedthomas
I'm reading about the chores issue on Sandra's site and I have several
questions I need help with:
1. Since my kids complain that we don't get to our afternoon activities soon
enough and they stand around asking me over and over if I'm done with the
stuff I need to do yet, I have told them that we are a team and if they want to
get somewhere by 1pm instead of 2pm then they need to help me clean up.
Does this go against the idea of not asking kids to do chores?
2. quoting from the website: "It's more of a shift in the parent's attitude than the
kids at first. If a person appears grumpy about cleaning, the kids will pick up
on that and immediately assume that cleaning is a real bummer."
What if you really do feel like cleaning is a bummer? What if you are one of
those people who are genetically not into cleaning? (quoting: " studies of
separated identical twins suggest that the desire and ability to clean and
organize have more to do with genetics than "training."")
Certainly "faking it" won't work, the kids will see right through that!
3. My kids have never had chores, but I do get on their cases for not cleaning
up their messes. I want to stop, so this is why I am reading the website and
asking these questions. Here is what happens in our house. My husband
does the dishes, the laundry and the some of the cleaning (like sweeping,
moping etc...) When I do clean, it's "spring cleaning" type of stuff, like 8 hours
straight of cleaning in one day 2 or 3 times a year, moving all the furniture
around etc...Part of why I don't clean more often is that once I get started, I
don't want to stop, so I rarely do it, because with kids around, there are always
interuptions, for stuff they need from me, so I wait until a day when I am alone
at home. Anyway, the problem is that my husband gets really tired of a messy
house, but he makes it clear to us all that he doesn't want to be the one to
clean everything. Also, he is mortified if we have anyone over to our house
and they see how messy our house is. How do I remedy this? I am NOT under
the ilusion that I can "fix" my husband. What can I do to change MY attitude
toward cleaning?
(I have sent him a link to Sandra's page on cleaning before, whether he read
it or not I don't know!)
4. When I do everything my kids ask of me I feel overwhelmed. I just can't fit it
all in one day. I also get a reaction from where, I don't know, but it is a strong
feeling of being their servant and I just want to scream at them! Especially if
they TELL me what they want or need as opposed to "asking me" (like "Mom,
get me an apple") I don't require them to say thank you or please, but
occasionally I let them know that it is a lot easier to do things for them if they
include these or if they at least ask rather than demand. Is this reasonable or
am I just deluding myself?
Help please!
Thanks.
Denise
questions I need help with:
1. Since my kids complain that we don't get to our afternoon activities soon
enough and they stand around asking me over and over if I'm done with the
stuff I need to do yet, I have told them that we are a team and if they want to
get somewhere by 1pm instead of 2pm then they need to help me clean up.
Does this go against the idea of not asking kids to do chores?
2. quoting from the website: "It's more of a shift in the parent's attitude than the
kids at first. If a person appears grumpy about cleaning, the kids will pick up
on that and immediately assume that cleaning is a real bummer."
What if you really do feel like cleaning is a bummer? What if you are one of
those people who are genetically not into cleaning? (quoting: " studies of
separated identical twins suggest that the desire and ability to clean and
organize have more to do with genetics than "training."")
Certainly "faking it" won't work, the kids will see right through that!
3. My kids have never had chores, but I do get on their cases for not cleaning
up their messes. I want to stop, so this is why I am reading the website and
asking these questions. Here is what happens in our house. My husband
does the dishes, the laundry and the some of the cleaning (like sweeping,
moping etc...) When I do clean, it's "spring cleaning" type of stuff, like 8 hours
straight of cleaning in one day 2 or 3 times a year, moving all the furniture
around etc...Part of why I don't clean more often is that once I get started, I
don't want to stop, so I rarely do it, because with kids around, there are always
interuptions, for stuff they need from me, so I wait until a day when I am alone
at home. Anyway, the problem is that my husband gets really tired of a messy
house, but he makes it clear to us all that he doesn't want to be the one to
clean everything. Also, he is mortified if we have anyone over to our house
and they see how messy our house is. How do I remedy this? I am NOT under
the ilusion that I can "fix" my husband. What can I do to change MY attitude
toward cleaning?
(I have sent him a link to Sandra's page on cleaning before, whether he read
it or not I don't know!)
4. When I do everything my kids ask of me I feel overwhelmed. I just can't fit it
all in one day. I also get a reaction from where, I don't know, but it is a strong
feeling of being their servant and I just want to scream at them! Especially if
they TELL me what they want or need as opposed to "asking me" (like "Mom,
get me an apple") I don't require them to say thank you or please, but
occasionally I let them know that it is a lot easier to do things for them if they
include these or if they at least ask rather than demand. Is this reasonable or
am I just deluding myself?
Help please!
Thanks.
Denise
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/15/2005 6:20:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
1. Since my kids complain that we don't get to our afternoon activities soon
enough and they stand around asking me over and over if I'm done with the
stuff I need to do yet, I have told them that we are a team and if they want
to
get somewhere by 1pm instead of 2pm then they need to help me clean up.
Does this go against the idea of not asking kids to do chores?
3. My kids have never had chores, but I do get on their cases for not
cleaning
up their messes. I want to stop, so this is why I am reading the website and
asking these questions. Here is what happens in our house. My husband
does the dishes, the laundry and the some of the cleaning (like sweeping,
moping etc...) When I do clean, it's "spring cleaning" type of stuff, like 8
hours
straight of cleaning in one day 2 or 3 times a year, moving all the
furniture
around etc...Part of why I don't clean more often is that once I get
started, I
don't want to stop, so I rarely do it, because with kids around, there are
always
interuptions, for stuff they need from me, so I wait until a day when I am
alone
at home. Anyway, the problem is that my husband gets really tired of a messy
house, but he makes it clear to us all that he doesn't want to be the one to
clean everything. Also, he is mortified if we have anyone over to our house
and they see how messy our house is. How do I remedy this? I am NOT under
the ilusion that I can "fix" my husband. What can I do to change MY attitude
toward cleaning?
*****************************
If you had a doctor's appointment or a job interview in the afternoon, I
assume you wouldn't blow it off or be late because you had to finish cleaning
the house. Going to those afternoon activities with your kids is an appointment
you have with them. It's disrespectful to blow it off for something like
housework, and it's mean to use guilt-trips to get them to help you with it. I
assure you the housework will be there when you get back.
So, what's with the Psycho Supercleaner Mom? Do you just find that more fun?
I can see that (although it doesn't really happen to me). If your kids are
seeing that, I can see why they'd be reluctant to help. It might look like
they're committing to a whole day of scrubbing under the furniture.
Maybe you could ask the kids for support in getting over this affliction :)
They may have some ideas about reasonable messy levels ( your husband too),
and everyone might be happier if cleaning involved loading the dishwasher and
picking up the Legos rather than rearranging the furniture.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
1. Since my kids complain that we don't get to our afternoon activities soon
enough and they stand around asking me over and over if I'm done with the
stuff I need to do yet, I have told them that we are a team and if they want
to
get somewhere by 1pm instead of 2pm then they need to help me clean up.
Does this go against the idea of not asking kids to do chores?
3. My kids have never had chores, but I do get on their cases for not
cleaning
up their messes. I want to stop, so this is why I am reading the website and
asking these questions. Here is what happens in our house. My husband
does the dishes, the laundry and the some of the cleaning (like sweeping,
moping etc...) When I do clean, it's "spring cleaning" type of stuff, like 8
hours
straight of cleaning in one day 2 or 3 times a year, moving all the
furniture
around etc...Part of why I don't clean more often is that once I get
started, I
don't want to stop, so I rarely do it, because with kids around, there are
always
interuptions, for stuff they need from me, so I wait until a day when I am
alone
at home. Anyway, the problem is that my husband gets really tired of a messy
house, but he makes it clear to us all that he doesn't want to be the one to
clean everything. Also, he is mortified if we have anyone over to our house
and they see how messy our house is. How do I remedy this? I am NOT under
the ilusion that I can "fix" my husband. What can I do to change MY attitude
toward cleaning?
*****************************
If you had a doctor's appointment or a job interview in the afternoon, I
assume you wouldn't blow it off or be late because you had to finish cleaning
the house. Going to those afternoon activities with your kids is an appointment
you have with them. It's disrespectful to blow it off for something like
housework, and it's mean to use guilt-trips to get them to help you with it. I
assure you the housework will be there when you get back.
So, what's with the Psycho Supercleaner Mom? Do you just find that more fun?
I can see that (although it doesn't really happen to me). If your kids are
seeing that, I can see why they'd be reluctant to help. It might look like
they're committing to a whole day of scrubbing under the furniture.
Maybe you could ask the kids for support in getting over this affliction :)
They may have some ideas about reasonable messy levels ( your husband too),
and everyone might be happier if cleaning involved loading the dishwasher and
picking up the Legos rather than rearranging the furniture.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 15, 2005, at 3:53 AM, denisedthomas wrote:
housework? Is it getting you closer to your goal? Is it making
housework easier? It is getting them to help more?
The solution isn't to paste on a happy face and say housework is so
much fun :-) The solution is to see that finding a way to be more
peaceful about tasks and finding a way to minimize those tasks will
be a lot more helpful than grumbling.
One really helpful thing is to acknowledge that you don't have to do
any of it. There are no house police who will swoop in and inspect
under your bed or give you a violation for having dirty glasses in
the living room. When you accept that you don't have to then you know
when you're doing something because you *choose* to do it.
I clean my toilet a lot more often now that I do it because I want a
clean toilet and not because you're "supposed" to clean it every x
number of days. (I just rebelled against that and didn't clean it,
while feeling guilty about it. ;-)
what can be done today.
Moms often get that "Don't you understand that I'm doing the best I
can and how can you ask me to do one more thing," voice ;-) Don't do
that! Just be honest and matter of fact about the limitations of the
world: "We'll be away from 1-3 with Jimmy's kite flying lesson so we
won't be able to do a 2 o'clock play date with Sonia. What ideas do
you have?"
of other things. If they're young it could just be age but if they're
older it could a disconnection. They don't feel like they're feelings
are treated seriously so they don't have the need to treat you
seriously. Could it also be that you aren't *with* them enough? "With
them" meaning engaged in what they're doing, interacting like a
friend, aware of what they like and dislike about what they're doing
and so on. Or do they feel you're more off doing your thing while
they do their thing?
victim of your feelings. If you can set your sites on a different
goal and figure out a way to get there, wanting to do a huge job may
seem less compelling.
all just too overwhelming for her. By telling her it would go faster
if she helped did not advance her maturation. It just made us both
more irritable.
Rethink what you "need" to do. Ask youself, if this isn't done, who's
going to die?
How about keeping one room clean for him as a sanctuary?
Rethink how things are put away. Big bins to throw things in are a
lot easier than carting hundreds of things to dozens of locations
throughout the house. Rethink where things are played with. If
everything ends up in front of the TV, for instance, think about
moving the TV.
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> What if you really do feel like cleaning is a bummer?What would be your goal in letting your kids know that you don't like
housework? Is it getting you closer to your goal? Is it making
housework easier? It is getting them to help more?
The solution isn't to paste on a happy face and say housework is so
much fun :-) The solution is to see that finding a way to be more
peaceful about tasks and finding a way to minimize those tasks will
be a lot more helpful than grumbling.
One really helpful thing is to acknowledge that you don't have to do
any of it. There are no house police who will swoop in and inspect
under your bed or give you a violation for having dirty glasses in
the living room. When you accept that you don't have to then you know
when you're doing something because you *choose* to do it.
I clean my toilet a lot more often now that I do it because I want a
clean toilet and not because you're "supposed" to clean it every x
number of days. (I just rebelled against that and didn't clean it,
while feeling guilty about it. ;-)
> When I do everything my kids ask of me I feel overwhelmed. I justBe honest! Rather than failing to do "everything" be honest about
> can't fit it
> all in one day.
what can be done today.
Moms often get that "Don't you understand that I'm doing the best I
can and how can you ask me to do one more thing," voice ;-) Don't do
that! Just be honest and matter of fact about the limitations of the
world: "We'll be away from 1-3 with Jimmy's kite flying lesson so we
won't be able to do a 2 o'clock play date with Sonia. What ideas do
you have?"
> "Mom,It sounds like there's more going on than that. It's just a symptom
> get me an apple") I don't require them to say thank you or please, but
> occasionally I let them know that it is a lot easier to do things
> for them if they
> include these or if they at least ask rather than demand.
of other things. If they're young it could just be age but if they're
older it could a disconnection. They don't feel like they're feelings
are treated seriously so they don't have the need to treat you
seriously. Could it also be that you aren't *with* them enough? "With
them" meaning engaged in what they're doing, interacting like a
friend, aware of what they like and dislike about what they're doing
and so on. Or do they feel you're more off doing your thing while
they do their thing?
> Part of why I don't clean more often is that once I get started, IWhich unlike the rain is not beyond your control. You are not a
> don't want to stop
victim of your feelings. If you can set your sites on a different
goal and figure out a way to get there, wanting to do a huge job may
seem less compelling.
> they stand around asking me over and over if I'm done with theMy daughter until she was 11 or so had no interest in helping. It was
> stuff I need to do yet,
all just too overwhelming for her. By telling her it would go faster
if she helped did not advance her maturation. It just made us both
more irritable.
Rethink what you "need" to do. Ask youself, if this isn't done, who's
going to die?
> Anyway, the problem is that my husband gets really tired of a messyI don't blame him.
> house, but he makes it clear to us all that he doesn't want to be
> the one to
> clean everything.
How about keeping one room clean for him as a sanctuary?
Rethink how things are put away. Big bins to throw things in are a
lot easier than carting hundreds of things to dozens of locations
throughout the house. Rethink where things are played with. If
everything ends up in front of the TV, for instance, think about
moving the TV.
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>Are you sure getting there by 1:00 might not be more important than cleaning
> -=-1. Since my kids complain that we don't get to our afternoon activities
> soon
> enough and they stand around asking me over and over if I'm done with the
> stuff I need to do yet, I have told them that we are a team and if they want
> to
> get somewhere by 1pm instead of 2pm then they need to help me clean up.-=-
>
up?
Every thing that adds negativity and frustration to your day is relationship
damaging, nest-breaking stuff.
-=- quoting from the website: "It's more of a shift in the parent's attitude
than the
kids at first. If a person appears grumpy about cleaning, the kids will pick
up
on that and immediately assume that cleaning is a real bummer."
What if you really do feel like cleaning is a bummer?-=-
Then why would you make your kids share that sorrow with you?
Learn to enjoy it.
Shift your attitude.
-=-What if you are one of
those people who are genetically not into cleaning? (quoting: " studies of
separated identical twins suggest that the desire and ability to clean and
organize have more to do with genetics than "training."")-=-
Is it the kids' responsibility to pick up that slack?
-=-Certainly "faking it" won't work, the kids will see right through that!-=-
Do you live where a state inspector comes?
Will you lose your home without it being clean? (In some instances of
public housing, mean landlords or military housing, the answer might be "yes," to
which I say "Can you move?")
-=-Part of why I don't clean more often is that once I get started, I
don't want to stop, so I rarely do it, because with kids around, there are
always
interuptions, for stuff they need from me, so I wait until a day when I am
alone
at home.-=-
Some people swear by Flylady, a website where you can get ideas and sign up
for e-mail reminders and schedules. She has tricks for quicky passby cleanups
and little emotionally satisfying ways to chop cleaning into lots of smaller
pieces.
-=-Also, he is mortified if we have anyone over to our house
and they see how messy our house is. How do I remedy this? I am NOT under
the ilusion that I can "fix" my husband. What can I do to change MY attitude
toward cleaning?-=-
This is all beyond the scope of our discussion, honestly. The relationship
between you and your husband might not even allow for unschooling or mindful
parenting in ANY degree.
Joyce's writings on chores might be more helpful to you than mine.
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
I should go and link that from the chores page, in fact.
People have priorities. They can change their priorities if they really
want to, and it changes their lives. My priority is my children's happiness.
If my priority were to have a house ready for company at any moment, all of my
life would be different. I would make my decisions based on that goal.
-=-When I do everything my kids ask of me I feel overwhelmed. I just can't
fit it
all in one day. I also get a reaction from where, I don't know, but it is a
strong
feeling of being their servant and I just want to scream at them!-=-
Right.
You, the parent, MUST really understand what your own goals and beliefs and
principles are. If you don't change, unschooling won't work.
No one who's busy and happy can fit everything all into one day. So decide
what the priority items are. For me, it's my kids most days. Some days
it's getting ready for a conference, or finishing an article, and I'll just tell
the kids so. They can still trump the other thing if they really need to,
but they're willing to give me space and time because I so often give them all
they want.
-=-Especially if
they TELL me what they want or need as opposed to "asking me" (like "Mom,
get me an apple") I don't require them to say thank you or please, but
occasionally I let them know that it is a lot easier to do things for them if
they
include these or if they at least ask rather than demand. Is this reasonable
or
am I just deluding myself?-=-
Try not to divide the world into two choices that way. It's dualism (if you
want to get philosophical) and not balance.
Do you ask them nicely when you want them to do something? Is "not now" or
"I don't feel like it" a viable response from them? (If not, your "please"
is just sugar coating on a command.) Are they speaking to you in the way you
speak to them?
I don't "require" my husband to say please and thank you, but from the time
we first hung out together in 1978 or so, we just did. And we never stopped.
Please and thank you, and "that was nice, thanks." And by the time we had
kids we had been doing that for eight years. And they heard it before they
understood English.
You can't back up to 1978, but you can start being softer and gentler and
honestly grateful and honestly appealing when you ask, if you want them to really
know the benefits of "please and thank you."
"Am I just deluding myself"? seems very shrill and antagonistic.
The more successes you have, the easier it will be to take the next step.
Don't try to take all the steps at once. Understand what you're doing as you
do it.
Joyce's page is good with explaining the why part:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
(repeated it because some people don't go back up to the top of an e-mail
once they've read it)
Also maybe look at these bits:
http://sandradodd.com/balance
http://sandradodd.com/respect
http://sandradodd.com/rules
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Just lifted this from another list:
-=-Also in the program was this quote from Robyn L.
Coburn,
"Intententions matter. Expectations are the surest path to
disappointment. The idea I am suggesting to you is to not attempt
strewing yet until you have reached the internal serenity of
detachment."-=-
Detachment is what makes lots of unschooling work.
If a mom will take personally a moment of distraction, or a child's desire to
be alone, or a request for an apple that doesn't include "mother may I?" the
mother's own neediness and insecurity is a negative factor in the situation.
Why can't apples be where kids want them?
Or can you give the child the apple and smile and kiss him on the head and
say "You're welcome" in a really nice way without it sounding like you're
shaming him for not saying "please"?
Moms should make the first move, and if the mom has been part of the
deterioration of the relationship, the mom might need to make the next 200 moves.
Holly was watching Super Nanny last night and I was hearing some of it from
the other room. What crap. A child felt powerless, so they worked HARD to
make her more powerless than ever.
I could go on, and I will, but not right here and now. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-Also in the program was this quote from Robyn L.
Coburn,
"Intententions matter. Expectations are the surest path to
disappointment. The idea I am suggesting to you is to not attempt
strewing yet until you have reached the internal serenity of
detachment."-=-
Detachment is what makes lots of unschooling work.
If a mom will take personally a moment of distraction, or a child's desire to
be alone, or a request for an apple that doesn't include "mother may I?" the
mother's own neediness and insecurity is a negative factor in the situation.
Why can't apples be where kids want them?
Or can you give the child the apple and smile and kiss him on the head and
say "You're welcome" in a really nice way without it sounding like you're
shaming him for not saying "please"?
Moms should make the first move, and if the mom has been part of the
deterioration of the relationship, the mom might need to make the next 200 moves.
Holly was watching Super Nanny last night and I was hearing some of it from
the other room. What crap. A child felt powerless, so they worked HARD to
make her more powerless than ever.
I could go on, and I will, but not right here and now. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
don't even like the commercials...
--Deb
>I saw that the new season of that show was starting and I cringed. I
> Holly was watching Super Nanny last night and I was hearing some of
>it from
> the other room. What crap. A child felt powerless, so they
>worked HARD to
> make her more powerless than ever.
>
> I could go on, and I will, but not right here and now. <g>
>
> Sandra
>
don't even like the commercials...
--Deb