Brown

Hi Andi and all

Andi Kaufman wrote:

> I am still scared adn unsure. does this feeling ever go away.would i feel
> better if i used a log book so i could see what he is learning. and why the
> hell do i have to see it to be comfortable.

For me, after 13 years, those feelings of uncertainty and doubt and fear are
still there - but not all the time. And the gaps between panic attacks get
wider and wider as time goes by. When I am in panic mode, I find keeping a log
book does help, and it helps me out of the hole much quicker than if I
determinedly try to talk myself out of it.

Why do we have to see it to be comfortable? Because all those years of
conditioning take even more years to overcome. Maybe we need a 7 Step
Deschooling Program? <bg> Schoolaholics Anonymous? Most important, I've found,
is not to feel guilty and berate yourself. Give yourself the same loving
acceptance you give your child.

Carol

Andi Kaufman

CArol wrote:
>For me, after 13 years, those feelings of uncertainty and doubt and fear are
>still there - but not all the time. And the gaps between panic attacks get
>wider and wider as time goes by. When I am in panic mode, I find keeping a log
>book does help, and it helps me out of the hole much quicker than if I
>determinedly try to talk myself out of it.

I cant say I have had any panic attacks but i have had doubts. maybe that
is why i question so much. I have to do a sort of log for our evaluator. I
am in Pa. but not as much as i have been doing. i kind of like not having
to write everything. but i may just write down the positive changes i see
and what works. did anyone find this helpful.

>Why do we have to see it to be comfortable? Because all those years of
>conditioning take even more years to overcome. Maybe we need a 7 Step
>Deschooling Program? <bg> Schoolaholics Anonymous?

nah, sounds too much like scholastic. but i cant think of anything better
right now. i am sure i will think of a great comeback when i am not ont he
computer :)

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

At 07:45 AM 6/14/99 +1200, you wrote:
>From: Brown <mjcmbrwn@...>
>
>Hi Andi and all
>
>Andi Kaufman wrote:
>
When I am in panic mode, I find keeping a log
>book does help, and it helps me out of the hole much quicker than if I
>determinedly try to talk myself out of it.
>
>Why do we have to see it to be comfortable? Because all those years of
>conditioning take even more years to overcome. Maybe we need a 7 Step
>Deschooling Program? <bg> Schoolaholics Anonymous? Most important, I've
found,
>is not to feel guilty and berate yourself. Give yourself the same loving
>acceptance you give your child.
>
>Carol


I think that we have to see it because others have to see it. I mean, we
live in a culture where our chosen lifestyle is considered alternative, and
therefor we must constantly be explaining, validating, describing it to
"well wishers" and hostiles alike. Most of you have to participate in
yearly evaluations, or testing, or both, and must do nearly constant
qualifying of your chosen lifestyle to some friend or family member. We
also do not want to limit our children's opportunities, and so must ensure,
for our own peace of mind, that they have all the necessary skills to enter
a college of their choice, if they so choose.

This is not an apprentice culture, where hands on learning is appreciated
as a valid means of education. They all want to see that piece of paper,
see what your qualifications are (with a very few exeptions, of course.)
We are trying to provide documentation to show that our children REALLY did
get an education. In other words, we are living defensively, protecting
ourselves and our children, as is human nature.

Just my .02

Nanci K. in Idaho

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/14/1999 8:49:42 AM, you wrote:

<< Most of you have to participate in
yearly evaluations, or testing, or both, and must do nearly constant
qualifying of your chosen lifestyle to some friend or family member. >>

Very few states have yearly evaluations or tests. Some have none. Some have
every other year, or three years out of twelve.

For the most part, people really truly don't *have* to keep records. Some
want to.

There are unschooling families with no school-looking records at all, and
when/if their kids have a need they take college SATs or a GED or ACT and
they do fine!

Sandra

Lois Hoover

>From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
>
>I think that we have to see it because others have to see it. I mean, we
>live in a culture where our chosen lifestyle is considered alternative, and
>therefor we must constantly be explaining, validating, describing it to
>"well wishers" and hostiles alike.

My 11 yos has a paper route as I've mentioned before. His customers just
adore him and one of them nominated him for carrier of the week. He had to
give the newspaper company a picture of himself and fill out a questionaire
for the article on him that would appear.His district manager told him to
specify that he was homeschooled where it asked for school name which he
did. It also asked what his grades were, I suggested to him that he write
something to the effect that he was doing very well. Anyway, yesterday his
picture and article were in the paper. As we read it we found they
highlighted the fact that he was homeschooled, but then they added that he
had an A average. He never wrote a grade on this, we don't grade anything
here, never did as we don't believe in grades. I was peturbed that they did
that, but then I realized that they probably have very little first hand
knowledge of how many ways there are to hs. Guess it will take a while
longer for people to catch on. BUT WHY is a grade so important???


> Most of you have to participate in
>yearly evaluations, or testing, or both, and must do nearly constant
>qualifying of your chosen lifestyle to some friend or family member.

Sure in our state, my oldest would be in 10th grade, so I have to justify
not only that he learned a particular subject for that year, but I have to
know how many days we have "logged" or how many hours he's accumulated in a
subject. For example, 60-120 days would only earn him 1/2 a credit, any
thing over 120 earns 1 credit. What gets me is that the state won't give
him a diploma or in anyother way recognize him as graduating so why should
we have to worry about the credits. It's just their way of trying to
control us.

Lois

Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

I did not say we HAD to keep records for ourselves, I said that we did it
as a defense in a culture that requires us to 'prove' that our kids are
learning, in one way or another. Even if it is just to our judgemental
parents or to our own battered and beleagured consciences. Living in
Idaho, I don't have to keep any type of official records, take any tests at
all or submit to evaluations. Something that some of my friends say is
"terrible!" due to the "lack of accountability" for homeschooling parents.
They seem to think we need "Big Brother" making sure we are not hurting
our kids....

Nanci K. in Idaho

At 12:31 PM 6/14/99 EDT, you wrote:
>From: SandraDodd@...
>
>
>In a message dated 6/14/1999 8:49:42 AM, you wrote:
>
><< Most of you have to participate in
>yearly evaluations, or testing, or both, and must do nearly constant
>qualifying of your chosen lifestyle to some friend or family member. >>
>
>Very few states have yearly evaluations or tests. Some have none. Some have
>every other year, or three years out of twelve.
>
>For the most part, people really truly don't *have* to keep records. Some
>want to.
>
>There are unschooling families with no school-looking records at all, and
>when/if their kids have a need they take college SATs or a GED or ACT and
>they do fine!
>
>Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/14/99 12:12:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
tn-k4of5@... writes:

<< Something that some of my friends say is
"terrible!" due to the "lack of accountability" for homeschooling parents.
They seem to think we need "Big Brother" making sure we are not hurting
our kids....
>>
You know I have not yet figured out how to answer the question from family
and friends about WHY we have to do testing in this state. I don't even know
why, but I always end up giving some quick response about the tests helping
us be sure our kids are learning. I don't believe this my self but it seems
to be the answer non-homeschoolers are looking for. As far as we are
concerned the tests (which we haven't had to do yet) only serve to judge a
child's ability based on the school systems standards. Now that I think about
it, I have no idea how I will explain the tests to our son next year. It
could end up being quite traumatic.

Kelly

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/14/99 10:22:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, KDBecko@...
writes:

<< Now that I think about
it, I have no idea how I will explain the tests to our son next year. It
could end up being quite traumatic. >>

Kelly, are you in Washington State? I'm sorry I can't remember ... The
reason there are tests in Wa. has a bit of a history. Someone can jump in
and correct me on it if they know better.

When the law was being written the Legislature originally wanted to do what
Oregon did and remand kids to school if they didn't pass with a certain
score. At which point the grass roots people were able to pose the question,
well do you remand public school students to homeschool if they don't make
the score? People were able to make the case that unlike schools, testing
isn't essential in a one on one situation. However, there were those in the
legislature that just had the tests are good opinion and a good reference for
parents. Compromise.... we must test/evaluate, but they are for our
information and guidance....

They guide me enough that I ignore the results. And, that's okay too....

Charlotte

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/14/99 1:49:05 PM Central Daylight Time, Rhiahl@...
writes:

<< ompromise.... we must test/evaluate, but they are for our
information and guidance....

They guide me enough that I ignore the results. And, that's okay too....

Charlotte >>
Thanks Charlotte. We are in Minnesota and although we are required to test
yearly we are not required to share the results with anyone. I am still
learning the law though. I find that my district, while supportive, has no
clue about the law. When I first told them we were Homeschooling they told me
I had to come in and see them so they could see my "curriculum" ! I didn't
think this was right but I wasn't sure. After a few calls to some other
homeschoolers it became clear that I had to start educating myself on the
law. I just got my full copy of the law this week.

Kelly