Help regarding my role in unschooling-long!
denisedthomas
After posting my reply to the food issues post, I'd better preface this message
with the assurance that I do in fact want suggestions, not just empathy, BUT if
you want to give empathy too, it is welcome of course, but I am also needing
concrete advice and solutions, or maybe just a good pep talk, I'm not sure, so
here goes:
I have a 9 yo and a 5 yo.
I'm not sure I am doing this Unschooling thing right. I worry I may have gone
too far in the opposite direction and am bordering on neglect!
Here is a typical day for us:
We'll wake up around 9 or 10 am, usually the kids will get up first, and they'll
play or watch T.V or a video until they get hungry. Sometimes they'll grab
themselves something to eat, but more often than not, they want me to make
breakfast for them and so they'll drag me out of bed to make it (I'm usually up
until 1 or 2am) After breakfast and clean up, I usually read and answer e-
mails or search the internet for information for about an hour or an hour and a
half. By then they're usually ready for lunch or snack or whatever, we don't
really call it anything, just "hungry" and "eat", so I make some more food,
clean up and pack food for our afternoon outing. 2 days a week we go to a
friend's house for playgroup, one or two days a week we go to the park with
another homeschool group or two and one day during the week we stay
home all day. (although lately my husband has been taking them to work that
day, so I can have the day off!)
We usually get to our destination by 2pm and stay until 5 or 6pm and come
home, eat again, and the kids watch T.V. or play with each other (with a LOT
of fighting!)
I usually spend any free time I have reading or on the computer, I run a food
buying club and that takes up my evenings as well as more e-mails and
internet searches.
I rarely watch T.V. with the kids. They mostly watch videos which don't interest
me at all and the only actual "T.V." we have is PBS because we don't have
cable and either the shows interest them and not me (like cyberchase) or they
interest me and not them (like documentaries) and even then, I really can't
watch these because they're running around playing loudly, so I usually 99%
of the time opt to get on the computer in my room, with the door closed.
So, I don't interact with them as much as I'd like to, but when I do, I am easily
bored by what they do, or I am yelling at them to stop fighting (I'm working on
the yelling issue, so more and more, I'm talking to them constructively about
they disputes!) when I try to discuss stuff that's interesting to me, they are
bored with that! So we usually go our own ways, them playing and watching
videos/PBS and me, preparing food, cleaning up and getting on my computer.
If they come to me saying they are bored, which often happens on the day we
stay home, I tell them boredom is wonderful, that it helps you to be creative
and I send them off to be bored elsewhere, so I can get some work done. It
never fails to get them to play something new or old always creative!
So, as you can see, I am not facilitaing much learning. I do interact with them
when they come to me, will answer questions about how to spell something or
where the scotch tape is, or what's the difference between a lion and a tiger
(we usually look it up on the internet together and find pictures etc...) but that's
it. I don't sit with them watching T.V. except on rare occasions when it sucks
me in, I don't go to the library with them very much (about once a month)
because they don't like it and say they don't want books! I don't take them to
theater shows because the homeschool groups (and the affordable tickets)
are in the mornings and they really resist getting up early and haven't enjoyed
the few we have gone to very much. I don't do any curriculum or workbooks
unless I'm specificlly asked to buy such and such workbook, and then I don't
do the stuff in the workbook with them unless specifically asked.
We live 2&1/2 hours from the nearest zoo and I hate to drive, so we don't go
there, amusement parks and the county fair are not in our budget (they've
asked to go to disneyworld or disneyland and the zoo lately.)
So am I doing enough?
Am I neglectful? I let them watch videos for hours, play video games for hours
too, as long as they want, but am I providing enough interesting alternatives
for them? Are they to learn almost everything from videos and video games?
I keep trying to let them be my guides, let them lead, but lately my daughter is
been asking to go back to school, so obviously I must not be providing what
she needs. I ask her why, what school offers that homeschooling doesn't and
she can't articulate it.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Denise
with the assurance that I do in fact want suggestions, not just empathy, BUT if
you want to give empathy too, it is welcome of course, but I am also needing
concrete advice and solutions, or maybe just a good pep talk, I'm not sure, so
here goes:
I have a 9 yo and a 5 yo.
I'm not sure I am doing this Unschooling thing right. I worry I may have gone
too far in the opposite direction and am bordering on neglect!
Here is a typical day for us:
We'll wake up around 9 or 10 am, usually the kids will get up first, and they'll
play or watch T.V or a video until they get hungry. Sometimes they'll grab
themselves something to eat, but more often than not, they want me to make
breakfast for them and so they'll drag me out of bed to make it (I'm usually up
until 1 or 2am) After breakfast and clean up, I usually read and answer e-
mails or search the internet for information for about an hour or an hour and a
half. By then they're usually ready for lunch or snack or whatever, we don't
really call it anything, just "hungry" and "eat", so I make some more food,
clean up and pack food for our afternoon outing. 2 days a week we go to a
friend's house for playgroup, one or two days a week we go to the park with
another homeschool group or two and one day during the week we stay
home all day. (although lately my husband has been taking them to work that
day, so I can have the day off!)
We usually get to our destination by 2pm and stay until 5 or 6pm and come
home, eat again, and the kids watch T.V. or play with each other (with a LOT
of fighting!)
I usually spend any free time I have reading or on the computer, I run a food
buying club and that takes up my evenings as well as more e-mails and
internet searches.
I rarely watch T.V. with the kids. They mostly watch videos which don't interest
me at all and the only actual "T.V." we have is PBS because we don't have
cable and either the shows interest them and not me (like cyberchase) or they
interest me and not them (like documentaries) and even then, I really can't
watch these because they're running around playing loudly, so I usually 99%
of the time opt to get on the computer in my room, with the door closed.
So, I don't interact with them as much as I'd like to, but when I do, I am easily
bored by what they do, or I am yelling at them to stop fighting (I'm working on
the yelling issue, so more and more, I'm talking to them constructively about
they disputes!) when I try to discuss stuff that's interesting to me, they are
bored with that! So we usually go our own ways, them playing and watching
videos/PBS and me, preparing food, cleaning up and getting on my computer.
If they come to me saying they are bored, which often happens on the day we
stay home, I tell them boredom is wonderful, that it helps you to be creative
and I send them off to be bored elsewhere, so I can get some work done. It
never fails to get them to play something new or old always creative!
So, as you can see, I am not facilitaing much learning. I do interact with them
when they come to me, will answer questions about how to spell something or
where the scotch tape is, or what's the difference between a lion and a tiger
(we usually look it up on the internet together and find pictures etc...) but that's
it. I don't sit with them watching T.V. except on rare occasions when it sucks
me in, I don't go to the library with them very much (about once a month)
because they don't like it and say they don't want books! I don't take them to
theater shows because the homeschool groups (and the affordable tickets)
are in the mornings and they really resist getting up early and haven't enjoyed
the few we have gone to very much. I don't do any curriculum or workbooks
unless I'm specificlly asked to buy such and such workbook, and then I don't
do the stuff in the workbook with them unless specifically asked.
We live 2&1/2 hours from the nearest zoo and I hate to drive, so we don't go
there, amusement parks and the county fair are not in our budget (they've
asked to go to disneyworld or disneyland and the zoo lately.)
So am I doing enough?
Am I neglectful? I let them watch videos for hours, play video games for hours
too, as long as they want, but am I providing enough interesting alternatives
for them? Are they to learn almost everything from videos and video games?
I keep trying to let them be my guides, let them lead, but lately my daughter is
been asking to go back to school, so obviously I must not be providing what
she needs. I ask her why, what school offers that homeschooling doesn't and
she can't articulate it.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Denise
Angela
<<Am I neglectful? >>
Well, you asked.
It sounds neglectful to me.
I think as an unschooling mom you have some hurdles to overcome. My kids
have motivated me to do things that I am not comfortable with that I know
will benefit them. How about driving more often so you are not
uncomfortable taking them to the zoo and other places. Or just deciding
that you'll do it despite the fact that you feel uncomfortable. Feeling
uncomfortable never killed anyone.
The county fair doesn't have to be expensive. (and sending kids to school
isn't cheap either, between decent clothes, lunch money, school pictures,
sport uniforms, etc) We often go for just the price of admission. Bring
your own food and spend the day browsing the animal barn, watching the horse
shows, the horses on the track, or the demonstrations. They are all free.
I watched Super Nanny with the kids the other day (not something I'd choose
on my own, but it launches many good conversations) and the kids on that
show spend the day fighting while the mother hid out in her room with her
laptop. It was the saddest thing I ever saw. She didn't even like her kids
and spent time just trying to get away from them. The kids had NEVER played
a game with their mother before, for goodness sakes. Those poor kids were
starved for attention and would take any attention they could get, good or
bad.
From the time my kids were big enough to hold cards, we've played games with
them. My kids love to be read to. (they aren't crazy about going to the
library either but are always glad they went when we get home with a bunch
of books and movies.) I read to them often and if they don’t see a book
they think they would like, then I pick out books that I think they would
like and when we have some quiet time I read an excerpt from it and see if
they like it. If they reject it, we move on. No big deal.
It sounds to me like you all need to sit down and make a list of all the
things they would like to do (with your help on the idea end of course) and
then try to go through the list and do the things that are possible.
Also, if the sleeping schedule you are all on isn't working then talk about
how the changes could affect you (benefit you all) and make the changes.
If you are present with the kids during the day and you help them to resolve
their differences before they are outright fights, you home will be a lot
more peaceful.
The last point I want to make is that unschooling isn't just about letting
the children lead, it's about providing a rich supportive environment and
interacting with your kids. What have you done this week (or last or
whenever) to enrich their lives?
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
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Well, you asked.
It sounds neglectful to me.
I think as an unschooling mom you have some hurdles to overcome. My kids
have motivated me to do things that I am not comfortable with that I know
will benefit them. How about driving more often so you are not
uncomfortable taking them to the zoo and other places. Or just deciding
that you'll do it despite the fact that you feel uncomfortable. Feeling
uncomfortable never killed anyone.
The county fair doesn't have to be expensive. (and sending kids to school
isn't cheap either, between decent clothes, lunch money, school pictures,
sport uniforms, etc) We often go for just the price of admission. Bring
your own food and spend the day browsing the animal barn, watching the horse
shows, the horses on the track, or the demonstrations. They are all free.
I watched Super Nanny with the kids the other day (not something I'd choose
on my own, but it launches many good conversations) and the kids on that
show spend the day fighting while the mother hid out in her room with her
laptop. It was the saddest thing I ever saw. She didn't even like her kids
and spent time just trying to get away from them. The kids had NEVER played
a game with their mother before, for goodness sakes. Those poor kids were
starved for attention and would take any attention they could get, good or
bad.
From the time my kids were big enough to hold cards, we've played games with
them. My kids love to be read to. (they aren't crazy about going to the
library either but are always glad they went when we get home with a bunch
of books and movies.) I read to them often and if they don’t see a book
they think they would like, then I pick out books that I think they would
like and when we have some quiet time I read an excerpt from it and see if
they like it. If they reject it, we move on. No big deal.
It sounds to me like you all need to sit down and make a list of all the
things they would like to do (with your help on the idea end of course) and
then try to go through the list and do the things that are possible.
Also, if the sleeping schedule you are all on isn't working then talk about
how the changes could affect you (benefit you all) and make the changes.
If you are present with the kids during the day and you help them to resolve
their differences before they are outright fights, you home will be a lot
more peaceful.
The last point I want to make is that unschooling isn't just about letting
the children lead, it's about providing a rich supportive environment and
interacting with your kids. What have you done this week (or last or
whenever) to enrich their lives?
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "Angela"
<game-enthusiast@a...> wrote:
it from this week's time with their kids.
We're on a math kick here. I am pulling out the old Family Math book
and we're playing games and solving puzzles right and left. I am math
phobic so I've been learning lots of coll things at the livingmath.net
site which is giving me tools for how to enrich our home environment
using fiction and other books (not workbooks) to help create a math
rich environment.
It's been much more fun than I expected and I'm starting to feel smart
(where I've always felt not smart) with numbers. Just in a short
period of time!
Also, I've started an unschooling blog for myself where I record what
I do with my kids. I do this so I can get a real picture of how much
time we spend together and doing what. This is helping me balance
work, grad school and time with kids.
What I've discovered is that if I am not actively seeking ways to
enrich the environment, the kids don't often know what to do that is
different than what they already know to do. So my job is back to
strewing... and being an active learner myself.
Julie B
<game-enthusiast@a...> wrote:
>letting
> The last point I want to make is that unschooling isn't just about
> the children lead, it's about providing a rich supportiveenvironment and
> interacting with your kids. What have you done this week (or last orThis is such a great question. I would love it if people would answer
> whenever) to enrich their lives?
it from this week's time with their kids.
We're on a math kick here. I am pulling out the old Family Math book
and we're playing games and solving puzzles right and left. I am math
phobic so I've been learning lots of coll things at the livingmath.net
site which is giving me tools for how to enrich our home environment
using fiction and other books (not workbooks) to help create a math
rich environment.
It's been much more fun than I expected and I'm starting to feel smart
(where I've always felt not smart) with numbers. Just in a short
period of time!
Also, I've started an unschooling blog for myself where I record what
I do with my kids. I do this so I can get a real picture of how much
time we spend together and doing what. This is helping me balance
work, grad school and time with kids.
What I've discovered is that if I am not actively seeking ways to
enrich the environment, the kids don't often know what to do that is
different than what they already know to do. So my job is back to
strewing... and being an active learner myself.
Julie B
huntmom1996
It is too bad that you raised this when so many of the experienced
unschoolers are probably on their way to the L&L conference, but I
will speak from my own experience.
I have two children, as well, who are five years apart. They love
each other and have a wonderful relationship, but they are not really
playmates for eachother right now at their life stages. It is
extremely important to me that they have a respectful relationship,a
nd that means that I am involved in a lot of their playing. I could
not have a closed door in my house with me on one side and them on
the other and not have a fight erupt after about 30 minutes. They
would be crazed by the time I was on the computer for an hour or an
hour and 1/2.
It sounds as if you are new to this, and so are your children. They
may want to lead their lives, but they will need some ideas and
enthusiastic involvement. We saw the SpongeBob movie and there is a
song with something about "The Best Day Ever". Most mornings, I
say, "Okay! Today is going to be the best day ever! Let's_____!
(sometimes, it is stay in our pjs and watch Hamtaro!"
I won't sugar coat it, more often than not my enthusiasm is met with
rolling eyes from my tween :). But, she does join in, and begins to
laugh and be connected.
My dd, especially, feels disconnected from me when she watches more
than a hour of tv at a time. My ds won't eat breakfast unless he's
sitting in front of the tv. So, I started leaving fun things in the
kitchen for when they wake up. Sometimes it is coloring pages and
some cool markers, sometimes a big bowl of rice mixed with glitter,
or shells, or a cool book, or some neat fabric. That way we have
something to talk about while the coffee kicks in for me, and that
may be something that they are drawn to that connects us together as
a family before we turn to the screens in our lives.
We have no limits on tv and computer, but I do help my kids (since
they are so young and my dd is not Always Unschooled and has a harder
time with this than my always unschooled son). I make sure that they
have had *enough* of other things in their lives.
Did they feed their souls some natural beauty? Did their love of
books and art get fed today(and my kids DO happen to love books and
drawing~for you it may be legos or anime or video games)? Where is
the balance in our lives? Do they need balance today, or is today
just a computer game all day kind of day or read all day or park all
day? Sometimes an imbalance is okay, too.
And, lastly, I *do* watch Cyberchase, Foster's Home for Imaginary
Friends and Spiderman, because there is ***so much*** that my
children get out of those shows. We raced home yesterday from the
park to catch a show, and watched it togther. No, it is not
something I would choose to watch (I am more of a Lifetime Channel
movie gal myself), but for me, unschooling is all about CONNECTIONS.
If you aren't connected to what your children are doing, you can't
expand those connections with things that will be meaningful to them.
Sometimes, you have to give first. If you want them to get up
earlier to participate in some thins that you think might interest
them, you have to show that you know and care about what interests
them now. If you are bored by their playing, and they know it, they
won't trust that you know what is fun in the outside world.
And, here's a little dose of empathy, too....It would be nice if our
kids came out of school, loved life and plunged into passions like
saving the whales, but that's not real life. Like it or not,
unschooling is all about Real Life. :-)
Peace~Jessica
unschoolers are probably on their way to the L&L conference, but I
will speak from my own experience.
I have two children, as well, who are five years apart. They love
each other and have a wonderful relationship, but they are not really
playmates for eachother right now at their life stages. It is
extremely important to me that they have a respectful relationship,a
nd that means that I am involved in a lot of their playing. I could
not have a closed door in my house with me on one side and them on
the other and not have a fight erupt after about 30 minutes. They
would be crazed by the time I was on the computer for an hour or an
hour and 1/2.
It sounds as if you are new to this, and so are your children. They
may want to lead their lives, but they will need some ideas and
enthusiastic involvement. We saw the SpongeBob movie and there is a
song with something about "The Best Day Ever". Most mornings, I
say, "Okay! Today is going to be the best day ever! Let's_____!
(sometimes, it is stay in our pjs and watch Hamtaro!"
I won't sugar coat it, more often than not my enthusiasm is met with
rolling eyes from my tween :). But, she does join in, and begins to
laugh and be connected.
My dd, especially, feels disconnected from me when she watches more
than a hour of tv at a time. My ds won't eat breakfast unless he's
sitting in front of the tv. So, I started leaving fun things in the
kitchen for when they wake up. Sometimes it is coloring pages and
some cool markers, sometimes a big bowl of rice mixed with glitter,
or shells, or a cool book, or some neat fabric. That way we have
something to talk about while the coffee kicks in for me, and that
may be something that they are drawn to that connects us together as
a family before we turn to the screens in our lives.
We have no limits on tv and computer, but I do help my kids (since
they are so young and my dd is not Always Unschooled and has a harder
time with this than my always unschooled son). I make sure that they
have had *enough* of other things in their lives.
Did they feed their souls some natural beauty? Did their love of
books and art get fed today(and my kids DO happen to love books and
drawing~for you it may be legos or anime or video games)? Where is
the balance in our lives? Do they need balance today, or is today
just a computer game all day kind of day or read all day or park all
day? Sometimes an imbalance is okay, too.
And, lastly, I *do* watch Cyberchase, Foster's Home for Imaginary
Friends and Spiderman, because there is ***so much*** that my
children get out of those shows. We raced home yesterday from the
park to catch a show, and watched it togther. No, it is not
something I would choose to watch (I am more of a Lifetime Channel
movie gal myself), but for me, unschooling is all about CONNECTIONS.
If you aren't connected to what your children are doing, you can't
expand those connections with things that will be meaningful to them.
Sometimes, you have to give first. If you want them to get up
earlier to participate in some thins that you think might interest
them, you have to show that you know and care about what interests
them now. If you are bored by their playing, and they know it, they
won't trust that you know what is fun in the outside world.
And, here's a little dose of empathy, too....It would be nice if our
kids came out of school, loved life and plunged into passions like
saving the whales, but that's not real life. Like it or not,
unschooling is all about Real Life. :-)
Peace~Jessica
huntmom1996
--- In [email protected], "Julie Bogart"
<julie@b...> wrote:
***We're on a math kick here. I am pulling out the old Family Math
book and we're playing games and solving puzzles right and left. ***
We are in love this week with these books called _Sir Cumference and
the First Round Table_ and _Sir Cumference and the Sword and the
Cone_. When I got them from the library, I thought they'd be
too "hokey", but my dd (8) LOVES them. She thinks it is hilarious
that Sir Cumference's wife is called Lady Di of Ameter and the
village carpenters are twims named Geo and Sym of Metry.
Last night she said, "Will you sneak me a little math before bed?"
and held up these books.
We got coloring pages from the internet of Spongebob and Patrick and
decorated the back of the outside of the turtle tank so he looks like
he lives in Bikini Bottom.
We are a Halloween loving family, so we are completely into that,
too, making decorations, gathering dead leaves, planning costumes,
reading spooky stories.
Also, from the library, we got a DK book on Batman. Probably the
coolest cartoon encyclopedia type thing I have ever seen. And now I
can keep up with my three year old's knowledge of Batman (can you
guess what he's going to be for Halloween?).
Thanks for the idea for the thread, Julie!
Peace~Jessica
<julie@b...> wrote:
***We're on a math kick here. I am pulling out the old Family Math
book and we're playing games and solving puzzles right and left. ***
We are in love this week with these books called _Sir Cumference and
the First Round Table_ and _Sir Cumference and the Sword and the
Cone_. When I got them from the library, I thought they'd be
too "hokey", but my dd (8) LOVES them. She thinks it is hilarious
that Sir Cumference's wife is called Lady Di of Ameter and the
village carpenters are twims named Geo and Sym of Metry.
Last night she said, "Will you sneak me a little math before bed?"
and held up these books.
We got coloring pages from the internet of Spongebob and Patrick and
decorated the back of the outside of the turtle tank so he looks like
he lives in Bikini Bottom.
We are a Halloween loving family, so we are completely into that,
too, making decorations, gathering dead leaves, planning costumes,
reading spooky stories.
Also, from the library, we got a DK book on Batman. Probably the
coolest cartoon encyclopedia type thing I have ever seen. And now I
can keep up with my three year old's knowledge of Batman (can you
guess what he's going to be for Halloween?).
Thanks for the idea for the thread, Julie!
Peace~Jessica
Betsy Hill
**They mostly watch videos which don't interest
me at all and the only actual "T.V." we have is PBS because we don't have
cable and either the shows interest them and not me (like cyberchase) or
they interest me and not them...**
What about renting some great family movies from Netflix or the video
store? (Or borrowing from friends or picking them up at garage sales?)
You might find stuff that's of general interest.
I think I can relate some to what you are saying, because when we first
got cable TV we also (without asking) were given a second TV. My son
wanted to stay home a lot, we had just moved and didn't have local
friends. It was easy for us to fall into a pattern where we were
watching TV in seperate rooms. (There were lots of shows that I
prefered over his choices.) During the same period, I also spent a lot
of time on this computer and on this and other lists. But I really
don't think it these choices good for our relationship. I think our
relationship got pretty thin in that time period.
After the excitement of cable wore off, we both watch less TV most days,
but I now follow the advice here and spend some of my day sitting and
watching with him. We don't talk a lot during the shows, as he isn't
very talkative, but we do talk some, and I get clues about what he is
interested in. If I don't find the beginning of the show very
interesting, I have been known to fold laundry or flip through a
magazine if I wasn't fascinated by his viewing choice.
(I think it was key to me to recognize that my habits were choices, and
at any moment in the day I could chose something different or something
better. And I had the same nagging feeling that you have that I wasn't
interacting with him enough.)
If your kids are really loud inside and you are concerned that they are
watching too much TV, can you get them outside more for active play?
(I'd rather go to the park with a friend than alone, but I can slake my
need for entertainment with a magazine or with music on headphones.)
Most places in the N. hemisphere the weather is only going to get worse,
so go while you still can.
I am definitely have been guilty of letting my son entertain himself
while I pursue my own interests. But I'm trying to come to some more
reasonable balance. (I think there was a period when I was completely
tapped out from the 24/7 mothering routine and all the interrupted
nights, but now I have more to give.) In my case, he seemed engrossed
by the cable TV and was not telling me he was bored. I think that if he
had told me that, I would have woken up sooner.
** If they come to me saying they are bored, which often happens on the
day we stay home, I tell them boredom is wonderful, that it helps you to
be creative and I send them off to be bored elsewhere**
No. Take this as a sign that they want to interact with you, or with
someone or something new and interesting. Make it your mission to be
responsive to these requests.
** Am I neglectful?**
I think you could improve your performance. Are there ways you could
get quiet time for yourself *other times* in the week, when someone else
is with the kids? Are you depressed or just frazzled? Can you figure
out a more efficient way to meet your own needs so that there is more
time and strength left over for your kids?
Betsy
me at all and the only actual "T.V." we have is PBS because we don't have
cable and either the shows interest them and not me (like cyberchase) or
they interest me and not them...**
What about renting some great family movies from Netflix or the video
store? (Or borrowing from friends or picking them up at garage sales?)
You might find stuff that's of general interest.
I think I can relate some to what you are saying, because when we first
got cable TV we also (without asking) were given a second TV. My son
wanted to stay home a lot, we had just moved and didn't have local
friends. It was easy for us to fall into a pattern where we were
watching TV in seperate rooms. (There were lots of shows that I
prefered over his choices.) During the same period, I also spent a lot
of time on this computer and on this and other lists. But I really
don't think it these choices good for our relationship. I think our
relationship got pretty thin in that time period.
After the excitement of cable wore off, we both watch less TV most days,
but I now follow the advice here and spend some of my day sitting and
watching with him. We don't talk a lot during the shows, as he isn't
very talkative, but we do talk some, and I get clues about what he is
interested in. If I don't find the beginning of the show very
interesting, I have been known to fold laundry or flip through a
magazine if I wasn't fascinated by his viewing choice.
(I think it was key to me to recognize that my habits were choices, and
at any moment in the day I could chose something different or something
better. And I had the same nagging feeling that you have that I wasn't
interacting with him enough.)
If your kids are really loud inside and you are concerned that they are
watching too much TV, can you get them outside more for active play?
(I'd rather go to the park with a friend than alone, but I can slake my
need for entertainment with a magazine or with music on headphones.)
Most places in the N. hemisphere the weather is only going to get worse,
so go while you still can.
I am definitely have been guilty of letting my son entertain himself
while I pursue my own interests. But I'm trying to come to some more
reasonable balance. (I think there was a period when I was completely
tapped out from the 24/7 mothering routine and all the interrupted
nights, but now I have more to give.) In my case, he seemed engrossed
by the cable TV and was not telling me he was bored. I think that if he
had told me that, I would have woken up sooner.
** If they come to me saying they are bored, which often happens on the
day we stay home, I tell them boredom is wonderful, that it helps you to
be creative and I send them off to be bored elsewhere**
No. Take this as a sign that they want to interact with you, or with
someone or something new and interesting. Make it your mission to be
responsive to these requests.
** Am I neglectful?**
I think you could improve your performance. Are there ways you could
get quiet time for yourself *other times* in the week, when someone else
is with the kids? Are you depressed or just frazzled? Can you figure
out a more efficient way to meet your own needs so that there is more
time and strength left over for your kids?
Betsy
Deb Lewis
What first struck me about your post was that you considered the time
your kids were watching TV to be your "free time."
While it can happen that kids are ok watching TV for a time while a
parent does something else if your kids are fighting this shouldn't be
your free time.
You might find free time when your kids are asleep or when your partner
can be with the kids or you might not get much or any free time until
your kids are older. But the goal of unschooling is not to find
convenient free time for mom. So maybe you need to reassess your
priorities and think about whether unschooling is a deeply held
belief/philosophy for you or just why you chose this path.
If you have a like minded partner maybe your best hope for finding some
free time at this stage in your kids lives would be those times when your
partner can devote attention to the kids. You won't ever get these same
kids at this same age again and if your priority is finding time for
yourself you'll be missing the joy of five and nine year olds and you'll
be cheating your kids. I don't actually believe your priority is to find
free time.
***I rarely watch T.V. with the kids. They mostly watch videos which
don't interest
me at all and the only actual "T.V." we have is PBS because we don't have
cable and either the shows interest them and not me***
Successful unschooling and a strong relationship with your kids will
absolutely require you to be interested in what they're doing. You don't
have to like cyberchase but you can watch with them and talk to them and
discover why *they* like cyberchase. That's the important thing here.
Not that *you* like their programs but that you like to be with your
kids, that you like to see their enthusiasm and enjoyment.
One possible step toward finding shows you all enjoy would be more
options. If you're limiting their options on purpose I don't think you
should complain that you don't enjoy the shows they're choosing. <g> I
recommend getting more channels and then maybe another TV so that even
more options are available to all of you.
***I usually 99% of the time opt to get on the computer in my room, with
the door closed.***
You are blocking your children out. Are you depressed? Are you in a
rut? You need to be with them. Children run around and play loudly,
that's what they do. What's stopping you from playing with them?
***I don't interact with them as much as I'd like to, but when I do, I am
easily
bored by what they do,***
Get over it. I know that sounds harsh but your children need you to be
involved with them. You can suggest games and shows you might all enjoy.
You can bake cookies, have a mashed potato fight, have a water balloon
fight, paint the sidewalk. Do you need a list of fun things to offer
and do with your kids? People here could brainstorm for you.
But you should be interacting with them when they are doing the things
they enjoy.
***or I am yelling at them to stop fighting (I'm working on
the yelling issue, so more and more, I'm talking to them constructively
about
they disputes!)***
It's good that your working on the yelling. I recommend you stop yelling
at once. <g> As the great Yoda says "Do or do not, there is no try."
Some constructive talk might be ok as long as constructive talk isn't
code for lecturing. But at five and nine they need you mostly to fix the
problem. What are the usual problems between them? Is one invading the
space of the other? What is going on with them?
***when I try to discuss stuff that's interesting to me, they are
bored with that! ***
Are they mirroring your boredom with their shows and games? I don't
think you can expect them to show an interest in what you're doing and in
what you enjoy if you are not showing an interest in their activities.
You need to be an interested person for others to be interested in you.
It sounds like you are disconnected from your kids.
***If they come to me saying they are bored, which often happens on the
day we
stay home, I tell them boredom is wonderful, that it helps you to be
creative
and I send them off to be bored elsewhere, so I can get some work
done.***
They're asking you for help and you're refusing. What are you there
for? Seriously. Anyone could come into your house and cook and clean,
so why are *you* there?
For unschooling to be successful you will need to be involved with your
children. That means helping them live and play happily, helping them
find things they love, helping them solve problems.
If you went to your partner and said you were bored how would you feel if
your partner said, essentially, "go away and be bored somewhere else."
How many times could someone you love do that to you before you started
to feel like you weren't important to them at all?
***So, as you can see, I am not facilitaing much learning.***
Don't try to get your kids to do things they are not interested in. If
they don't like the library don't offer to take them there. (Library's
have more than books though. They have music, videos, audio books)
Go to the park, take a lunch, take a kite, a ball, a Frisbee. Go for a
walk, collect leaves, rocks, bugs. Go for a hike, take food, ford
streams, catch frogs, take pictures. Go to the pool, take water toys,
play. Get squirt guns and blast each other. Make up a wavy dance or a
swishy dance or a "bees are stinging my butt" dance. Play games. Some
games that can be played with little kids are: Mancalla, Set, Racko,
Target, Five Crowns, Checkers, Clue, Tic Tac Toe, Life, Survival or
Extinction (dinosaur game) Chinese Checkers, Flinch, Sorry. Play Mad
Libs, ask your kids for silly word and then read them the resulting
story. Have "Monster Movie Night" rent old monster movies and make
popcorn and stomp around like Godzilla. Go out for french fries. Go
out for ice cream. Run races, ride bikes, go sledding, ice skating,
roller skating. Go play miniature golf. Go bowling.
***We live 2&1/2 hours from the nearest zoo and I hate to drive, so we
don't go
there,***
I live two and a half hours from the nearest anything. <g> Not really
but most things require us to drive some distance, usually forty miles or
more. Get over it. Seriously. In the big scheme of things giving your
kids a big life is more important than a bit of driving.
Do you want to unschool? I guess that's an important question. Do you
want to, and why, and when you can answer that then I think you'll know
if you can make the required adjustments to give your kids the best
unschooling life.
***So am I doing enough? ***
No. Not even nearly. Get up and do something now, even if you go hug
them and kiss them and tell them they're great. But preferably go play
with them, go somewhere, be their best and most exciting friend.
***I let them watch videos for hours, play video games for hours
too, as long as they want, but am I providing enough interesting
alternatives
for them?***
TV and movies and games should be some choices among many choices not
their only choice. You need to be offering more. They can accept or
decline but you need to be offering them the world.
***Are they to learn almost everything from videos and video games?***
Absolutely not. Those things should be one option among endless options
and you should be the most shining option of all.
Deb L
your kids were watching TV to be your "free time."
While it can happen that kids are ok watching TV for a time while a
parent does something else if your kids are fighting this shouldn't be
your free time.
You might find free time when your kids are asleep or when your partner
can be with the kids or you might not get much or any free time until
your kids are older. But the goal of unschooling is not to find
convenient free time for mom. So maybe you need to reassess your
priorities and think about whether unschooling is a deeply held
belief/philosophy for you or just why you chose this path.
If you have a like minded partner maybe your best hope for finding some
free time at this stage in your kids lives would be those times when your
partner can devote attention to the kids. You won't ever get these same
kids at this same age again and if your priority is finding time for
yourself you'll be missing the joy of five and nine year olds and you'll
be cheating your kids. I don't actually believe your priority is to find
free time.
***I rarely watch T.V. with the kids. They mostly watch videos which
don't interest
me at all and the only actual "T.V." we have is PBS because we don't have
cable and either the shows interest them and not me***
Successful unschooling and a strong relationship with your kids will
absolutely require you to be interested in what they're doing. You don't
have to like cyberchase but you can watch with them and talk to them and
discover why *they* like cyberchase. That's the important thing here.
Not that *you* like their programs but that you like to be with your
kids, that you like to see their enthusiasm and enjoyment.
One possible step toward finding shows you all enjoy would be more
options. If you're limiting their options on purpose I don't think you
should complain that you don't enjoy the shows they're choosing. <g> I
recommend getting more channels and then maybe another TV so that even
more options are available to all of you.
***I usually 99% of the time opt to get on the computer in my room, with
the door closed.***
You are blocking your children out. Are you depressed? Are you in a
rut? You need to be with them. Children run around and play loudly,
that's what they do. What's stopping you from playing with them?
***I don't interact with them as much as I'd like to, but when I do, I am
easily
bored by what they do,***
Get over it. I know that sounds harsh but your children need you to be
involved with them. You can suggest games and shows you might all enjoy.
You can bake cookies, have a mashed potato fight, have a water balloon
fight, paint the sidewalk. Do you need a list of fun things to offer
and do with your kids? People here could brainstorm for you.
But you should be interacting with them when they are doing the things
they enjoy.
***or I am yelling at them to stop fighting (I'm working on
the yelling issue, so more and more, I'm talking to them constructively
about
they disputes!)***
It's good that your working on the yelling. I recommend you stop yelling
at once. <g> As the great Yoda says "Do or do not, there is no try."
Some constructive talk might be ok as long as constructive talk isn't
code for lecturing. But at five and nine they need you mostly to fix the
problem. What are the usual problems between them? Is one invading the
space of the other? What is going on with them?
***when I try to discuss stuff that's interesting to me, they are
bored with that! ***
Are they mirroring your boredom with their shows and games? I don't
think you can expect them to show an interest in what you're doing and in
what you enjoy if you are not showing an interest in their activities.
You need to be an interested person for others to be interested in you.
It sounds like you are disconnected from your kids.
***If they come to me saying they are bored, which often happens on the
day we
stay home, I tell them boredom is wonderful, that it helps you to be
creative
and I send them off to be bored elsewhere, so I can get some work
done.***
They're asking you for help and you're refusing. What are you there
for? Seriously. Anyone could come into your house and cook and clean,
so why are *you* there?
For unschooling to be successful you will need to be involved with your
children. That means helping them live and play happily, helping them
find things they love, helping them solve problems.
If you went to your partner and said you were bored how would you feel if
your partner said, essentially, "go away and be bored somewhere else."
How many times could someone you love do that to you before you started
to feel like you weren't important to them at all?
***So, as you can see, I am not facilitaing much learning.***
Don't try to get your kids to do things they are not interested in. If
they don't like the library don't offer to take them there. (Library's
have more than books though. They have music, videos, audio books)
Go to the park, take a lunch, take a kite, a ball, a Frisbee. Go for a
walk, collect leaves, rocks, bugs. Go for a hike, take food, ford
streams, catch frogs, take pictures. Go to the pool, take water toys,
play. Get squirt guns and blast each other. Make up a wavy dance or a
swishy dance or a "bees are stinging my butt" dance. Play games. Some
games that can be played with little kids are: Mancalla, Set, Racko,
Target, Five Crowns, Checkers, Clue, Tic Tac Toe, Life, Survival or
Extinction (dinosaur game) Chinese Checkers, Flinch, Sorry. Play Mad
Libs, ask your kids for silly word and then read them the resulting
story. Have "Monster Movie Night" rent old monster movies and make
popcorn and stomp around like Godzilla. Go out for french fries. Go
out for ice cream. Run races, ride bikes, go sledding, ice skating,
roller skating. Go play miniature golf. Go bowling.
***We live 2&1/2 hours from the nearest zoo and I hate to drive, so we
don't go
there,***
I live two and a half hours from the nearest anything. <g> Not really
but most things require us to drive some distance, usually forty miles or
more. Get over it. Seriously. In the big scheme of things giving your
kids a big life is more important than a bit of driving.
Do you want to unschool? I guess that's an important question. Do you
want to, and why, and when you can answer that then I think you'll know
if you can make the required adjustments to give your kids the best
unschooling life.
***So am I doing enough? ***
No. Not even nearly. Get up and do something now, even if you go hug
them and kiss them and tell them they're great. But preferably go play
with them, go somewhere, be their best and most exciting friend.
***I let them watch videos for hours, play video games for hours
too, as long as they want, but am I providing enough interesting
alternatives
for them?***
TV and movies and games should be some choices among many choices not
their only choice. You need to be offering more. They can accept or
decline but you need to be offering them the world.
***Are they to learn almost everything from videos and video games?***
Absolutely not. Those things should be one option among endless options
and you should be the most shining option of all.
Deb L
Denise Thomas
Thank you so much Jessica for the pep talk and the
reality check! I need to do some serious soul
seraching about my relationship with my kids!
Thanks again!
Denise
--- huntmom1996 <jechunt@...> wrote:
Please visit Symphony Sam, an exciting upcoming TV show for children about Classical Music that we are creating:
http://www.hotmusic.org/SymphonySam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
reality check! I need to do some serious soul
seraching about my relationship with my kids!
Thanks again!
Denise
--- huntmom1996 <jechunt@...> wrote:
> It is too bad that you raised this when so many ofDenise
> the experienced
> unschoolers are probably on their way to the L&L
> conference, but I
> will speak from my own experience.
>
> I have two children, as well, who are five years
> apart. They love
> each other and have a wonderful relationship, but
> they are not really
> playmates for eachother right now at their life
> stages. It is
> extremely important to me that they have a
> respectful relationship,a
> nd that means that I am involved in a lot of their
> playing. I could
> not have a closed door in my house with me on one
> side and them on
> the other and not have a fight erupt after about 30
> minutes. They
> would be crazed by the time I was on the computer
> for an hour or an
> hour and 1/2.
>
> It sounds as if you are new to this, and so are your
> children. They
> may want to lead their lives, but they will need
> some ideas and
> enthusiastic involvement. We saw the SpongeBob
> movie and there is a
> song with something about "The Best Day Ever". Most
> mornings, I
> say, "Okay! Today is going to be the best day ever!
> Let's_____!
> (sometimes, it is stay in our pjs and watch
> Hamtaro!"
>
> I won't sugar coat it, more often than not my
> enthusiasm is met with
> rolling eyes from my tween :). But, she does join
> in, and begins to
> laugh and be connected.
>
> My dd, especially, feels disconnected from me when
> she watches more
> than a hour of tv at a time. My ds won't eat
> breakfast unless he's
> sitting in front of the tv. So, I started leaving
> fun things in the
> kitchen for when they wake up. Sometimes it is
> coloring pages and
> some cool markers, sometimes a big bowl of rice
> mixed with glitter,
> or shells, or a cool book, or some neat fabric.
> That way we have
> something to talk about while the coffee kicks in
> for me, and that
> may be something that they are drawn to that
> connects us together as
> a family before we turn to the screens in our lives.
>
> We have no limits on tv and computer, but I do help
> my kids (since
> they are so young and my dd is not Always Unschooled
> and has a harder
> time with this than my always unschooled son). I
> make sure that they
> have had *enough* of other things in their lives.
>
> Did they feed their souls some natural beauty? Did
> their love of
> books and art get fed today(and my kids DO happen to
> love books and
> drawing~for you it may be legos or anime or video
> games)? Where is
> the balance in our lives? Do they need balance
> today, or is today
> just a computer game all day kind of day or read all
> day or park all
> day? Sometimes an imbalance is okay, too.
>
> And, lastly, I *do* watch Cyberchase, Foster's Home
> for Imaginary
> Friends and Spiderman, because there is ***so
> much*** that my
> children get out of those shows. We raced home
> yesterday from the
> park to catch a show, and watched it togther. No,
> it is not
> something I would choose to watch (I am more of a
> Lifetime Channel
> movie gal myself), but for me, unschooling is all
> about CONNECTIONS.
> If you aren't connected to what your children are
> doing, you can't
> expand those connections with things that will be
> meaningful to them.
>
> Sometimes, you have to give first. If you want them
> to get up
> earlier to participate in some thins that you think
> might interest
> them, you have to show that you know and care about
> what interests
> them now. If you are bored by their playing, and
> they know it, they
> won't trust that you know what is fun in the outside
> world.
>
> And, here's a little dose of empathy, too....It
> would be nice if our
> kids came out of school, loved life and plunged into
> passions like
> saving the whales, but that's not real life. Like
> it or not,
> unschooling is all about Real Life. :-)
>
> Peace~Jessica
>
>
>
>
>
Please visit Symphony Sam, an exciting upcoming TV show for children about Classical Music that we are creating:
http://www.hotmusic.org/SymphonySam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Brandie
--- denisedthomas <denisedthomas@...> wrote:
If you want to be involved with your kids, and this is
what interests them, you need to be watching with
them.
you do your food buying club/emailing/internet
searches, plus also by themselves for an hour to an
hour and a half each morning while you do email and
internet searching? This seems like a lot of time
that you are on the computer, away from them.
Can you work with the door open? Can the computer be
in the main part of the house? How much time do you
really NEED each day on the computer? Does the
computer suck you in (such as you said about the TV)?
like (and might not bore you)? And with the things
that they like, that just continue to bore you, get
over it! It is a lot about perspective on things.
It's not like a girlfriend of yours who might invite
you to a play that you might think would be boring so
you decline the invitation...these are your children.
kids don't have an interest in? Or kid type ideas
that you think might be fun?
If it is adult type stuff, don't be surprised that
they don't have an interest in it. If is kid type
stuff, try even more ideas. Pay attention to your
children to REALLY get to know them, so that your
ideas will be more likely to click with them.
What are you own interests? It's good to share your
own interest with them and just because you are
unschooling doesn't mean you can't have things that
you enjoy. Here is a great article about how a mom
shares her interests with her kids:
http://sandradodd.com/strew/ren
unschool, you must be actively engaged with your
children. I'm not saying that every minute needs to
be together, but the fact that your family usually
goes their own way and your children are so young
still tells me that something might be missing.
soley as child-led. While aspects of unschooling are
child-led, I really don't prefer that term, because it
makes it appear that unschooling is only about the
child coming to you, the child coming up with all the
ideas. It's not just them coming to you, it's also
you going to them.
It's good that you interact with them, but you need to
interact even more. Have you ever heard someone say
that parents who unschool are "tour guides", rather
than teachers. Are you being a good tour guide? Are
you providing them everything they need to live a
rich, exciting, fullfilling life?
videos as much as they like is wonderful. BUT, if a
child doesn't have enough other choices and a parent
who doesn't keep things interesting and fun, then that
can be all that they will do, because they don't have
other options.
You tell us, are you providing enough other
alternatives? Is there plenty of books, toys,
puzzles, games, arts 'n' craft materials, coloring
books, outdoor items, etc.?
By reading your post, I will say that I think there is
room for improvement on your part. I think you could
be more involved with them. But I also think that you
know that (by the tone of your post). I think you are
on your way to getting it right, but that you might
need to learn more about unschooling.
Have you read about strewing? If not, you will want
to:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
> I rarely watch T.V. with the kids. They mostly watchIt really doesn't matter if the shows interest you.
> videos which don't interest
> me at all
If you want to be involved with your kids, and this is
what interests them, you need to be watching with
them.
> so I usually 99%So, they are by themselves most of the evenings when
> of the time opt to get on the computer in my room,
> with the door closed.
you do your food buying club/emailing/internet
searches, plus also by themselves for an hour to an
hour and a half each morning while you do email and
internet searching? This seems like a lot of time
that you are on the computer, away from them.
Can you work with the door open? Can the computer be
in the main part of the house? How much time do you
really NEED each day on the computer? Does the
computer suck you in (such as you said about the TV)?
> So, I don't interact with them as much as I'd likeAre you not able to come up with fun ideas they might
> to, but when I do, I am easily
> bored by what they do, or I am yelling at them to
> stop fighting
like (and might not bore you)? And with the things
that they like, that just continue to bore you, get
over it! It is a lot about perspective on things.
It's not like a girlfriend of yours who might invite
you to a play that you might think would be boring so
you decline the invitation...these are your children.
> when I try to discuss stuff that'sAre you speaking about adult type stuff that lots of
> interesting to me, they are
> bored with that!
kids don't have an interest in? Or kid type ideas
that you think might be fun?
If it is adult type stuff, don't be surprised that
they don't have an interest in it. If is kid type
stuff, try even more ideas. Pay attention to your
children to REALLY get to know them, so that your
ideas will be more likely to click with them.
What are you own interests? It's good to share your
own interest with them and just because you are
unschooling doesn't mean you can't have things that
you enjoy. Here is a great article about how a mom
shares her interests with her kids:
http://sandradodd.com/strew/ren
> So we usually go our own ways,Unschooling is a very HANDS ON approach to living. To
unschool, you must be actively engaged with your
children. I'm not saying that every minute needs to
be together, but the fact that your family usually
goes their own way and your children are so young
still tells me that something might be missing.
> So, as you can see, I am not facilitaing muchIt seems to me that you might be viewing unschooling
> learning. I do interact with them
> when they come to me,
soley as child-led. While aspects of unschooling are
child-led, I really don't prefer that term, because it
makes it appear that unschooling is only about the
child coming to you, the child coming up with all the
ideas. It's not just them coming to you, it's also
you going to them.
It's good that you interact with them, but you need to
interact even more. Have you ever heard someone say
that parents who unschool are "tour guides", rather
than teachers. Are you being a good tour guide? Are
you providing them everything they need to live a
rich, exciting, fullfilling life?
> I let them watch videos for hours,Yes, letting them play video games and watch their
> play video games for hours
> too, as long as they want, but am I providing enough
> interesting alternatives
> for them?
videos as much as they like is wonderful. BUT, if a
child doesn't have enough other choices and a parent
who doesn't keep things interesting and fun, then that
can be all that they will do, because they don't have
other options.
You tell us, are you providing enough other
alternatives? Is there plenty of books, toys,
puzzles, games, arts 'n' craft materials, coloring
books, outdoor items, etc.?
By reading your post, I will say that I think there is
room for improvement on your part. I think you could
be more involved with them. But I also think that you
know that (by the tone of your post). I think you are
on your way to getting it right, but that you might
need to learn more about unschooling.
Have you read about strewing? If not, you will want
to:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
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Denise Thomas
Thank you Deb, you've given me lots to think about! I
will be doing a lot of self exploration to discover
what my motives are and whether I am willing to step
up to the plate!
Thank you!
Denise
--- Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...> wrote:
Denise
Please visit Symphony Sam, an exciting upcoming TV show for children about Classical Music that we are creating:
http://www.hotmusic.org/SymphonySam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
will be doing a lot of self exploration to discover
what my motives are and whether I am willing to step
up to the plate!
Thank you!
Denise
--- Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...> wrote:
> What first struck me about your post was that you=== message truncated ===
> considered the time
> your kids were watching TV to be your "free time."
>
> While it can happen that kids are ok watching TV for
> a time while a
> parent does something else if your kids are fighting
> this shouldn't be
> your free time.
>
> You might find free time when your kids are asleep
> or when your partner
> can be with the kids or you might not get much or
> any free time until
> your kids are older. But the goal of unschooling
> is not to find
> convenient free time for mom. So maybe you need to
> reassess your
> priorities and think about whether unschooling is a
> deeply held
> belief/philosophy for you or just why you chose this
> path.
>
> If you have a like minded partner maybe your best
> hope for finding some
> free time at this stage in your kids lives would be
> those times when your
> partner can devote attention to the kids. You
> won't ever get these same
> kids at this same age again and if your priority is
> finding time for
> yourself you'll be missing the joy of five and nine
> year olds and you'll
> be cheating your kids. I don't actually believe
> your priority is to find
> free time.
>
> ***I rarely watch T.V. with the kids. They mostly
> watch videos which
> don't interest
> me at all and the only actual "T.V." we have is PBS
> because we don't have
>
> cable and either the shows interest them and not
> me***
>
> Successful unschooling and a strong relationship
> with your kids will
> absolutely require you to be interested in what
> they're doing. You don't
> have to like cyberchase but you can watch with them
> and talk to them and
> discover why *they* like cyberchase. That's the
> important thing here.
> Not that *you* like their programs but that you like
> to be with your
> kids, that you like to see their enthusiasm and
> enjoyment.
>
> One possible step toward finding shows you all enjoy
> would be more
> options. If you're limiting their options on
> purpose I don't think you
> should complain that you don't enjoy the shows
> they're choosing. <g> I
> recommend getting more channels and then maybe
> another TV so that even
> more options are available to all of you.
>
> ***I usually 99% of the time opt to get on the
> computer in my room, with
> the door closed.***
>
> You are blocking your children out. Are you
> depressed? Are you in a
> rut? You need to be with them. Children run
> around and play loudly,
> that's what they do. What's stopping you from
> playing with them?
>
> ***I don't interact with them as much as I'd like
> to, but when I do, I am
> easily
> bored by what they do,***
>
> Get over it. I know that sounds harsh but your
> children need you to be
> involved with them. You can suggest games and shows
> you might all enjoy.
> You can bake cookies, have a mashed potato fight,
> have a water balloon
> fight, paint the sidewalk. Do you need a list of
> fun things to offer
> and do with your kids? People here could brainstorm
> for you.
> But you should be interacting with them when they
> are doing the things
> they enjoy.
>
> ***or I am yelling at them to stop fighting (I'm
> working on
> the yelling issue, so more and more, I'm talking to
> them constructively
> about
> they disputes!)***
>
> It's good that your working on the yelling. I
> recommend you stop yelling
> at once. <g> As the great Yoda says "Do or do not,
> there is no try."
>
> Some constructive talk might be ok as long as
> constructive talk isn't
> code for lecturing. But at five and nine they need
> you mostly to fix the
> problem. What are the usual problems between them?
> Is one invading the
> space of the other? What is going on with them?
>
> ***when I try to discuss stuff that's interesting to
> me, they are
> bored with that! ***
>
> Are they mirroring your boredom with their shows and
> games? I don't
> think you can expect them to show an interest in
> what you're doing and in
> what you enjoy if you are not showing an interest in
> their activities.
> You need to be an interested person for others to be
> interested in you.
>
> It sounds like you are disconnected from your kids.
>
>
> ***If they come to me saying they are bored, which
> often happens on the
> day we
> stay home, I tell them boredom is wonderful, that it
> helps you to be
> creative
> and I send them off to be bored elsewhere, so I can
> get some work
> done.***
>
> They're asking you for help and you're refusing.
> What are you there
> for? Seriously. Anyone could come into your house
> and cook and clean,
> so why are *you* there?
>
> For unschooling to be successful you will need to be
> involved with your
> children. That means helping them live and play
> happily, helping them
> find things they love, helping them solve problems.
>
>
> If you went to your partner and said you were bored
> how would you feel if
> your partner said, essentially, "go away and be
> bored somewhere else."
> How many times could someone you love do that to you
> before you started
> to feel like you weren't important to them at all?
>
> ***So, as you can see, I am not facilitaing much
> learning.***
>
> Don't try to get your kids to do things they are not
> interested in. If
> they don't like the library don't offer to take them
> there. (Library's
> have more than books though. They have music,
> videos, audio books)
>
> Go to the park, take a lunch, take a kite, a ball, a
> Frisbee. Go for a
> walk, collect leaves, rocks, bugs. Go for a hike,
> take food, ford
> streams, catch frogs, take pictures. Go to the
> pool, take water toys,
> play. Get squirt guns and blast each other. Make
> up a wavy dance or a
> swishy dance or a "bees are stinging my butt" dance.
> Play games. Some
> games that can be played with little kids are:
> Mancalla, Set, Racko,
> Target, Five Crowns, Checkers, Clue, Tic Tac Toe,
> Life, Survival or
> Extinction (dinosaur game) Chinese Checkers, Flinch,
> Sorry. Play Mad
> Libs, ask your kids for silly word and then read
> them the resulting
> story. Have "Monster Movie Night" rent old
> monster movies and make
> popcorn and stomp around like Godzilla. Go out for
> french fries. Go
> out for ice cream. Run races, ride bikes, go
> sledding, ice skating,
> roller skating. Go play miniature golf. Go
> bowling.
Denise
Please visit Symphony Sam, an exciting upcoming TV show for children about Classical Music that we are creating:
http://www.hotmusic.org/SymphonySam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
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Liz in AZ
Denise,
I agree with the responses you have already received, but wanted to
add that you might read Playful Parenting by Leonard Cohen. He has
many ideas that may help you get over the hump of not enjoying play or
not feeling like you know *how* to play with your kids.
But don't read it when you could be hanging out with them!
Liz
I agree with the responses you have already received, but wanted to
add that you might read Playful Parenting by Leonard Cohen. He has
many ideas that may help you get over the hump of not enjoying play or
not feeling like you know *how* to play with your kids.
But don't read it when you could be hanging out with them!
Liz
> So, I don't interact with them as much as I'd like to, but when Ido, I am easily
> bored by what they do
Denise Thomas
--- huntmom1996 <jechunt@...> wrote:
she went to ps in 2nd and asked to be homeschooled
again, so we unschooled last year and this is our 3rd
year, but 2nd in a row. My ds went to p/t preschool
for 1 year, the year my dd was in 2nd grade and hated
it, so other than that we've unschooled/been at home
together since his birth.
Should I just do it anyway? Will it just happen
eventually? Do you think I shouldn't homeschool if I
can't feel that kind of enthusiasm? Are they better
off in school?
that? I can barely do the regular housekeeping (and
what I do have time to do housekeeping-wise is very
minimal!) and whenever we do an art project, I can't
get the kids to help clean up. I've explained to them
that we would do more of this sort of thing if we
could clean up together, as a team, but it doesn't
seem to motivate them. Am I expecting too much to ask
them for help?
with them on a project is that enough? Or does that
not even begin to be enough? 3 hours? more?
Can you give me an idea of how much time you spend?
What happens when your own soul hasn't been
replenished and you've got nothing left to give?
watching some T.V. with them, including Cyberchase and
talking with them about it. Does it count if I bring
carrots to peel with me etc... to do while I watch?
Also, I played with them with a huge box of popscicle
sticks for a while and they had a blast with that. We
built a city on our dining room table. But eventually
I had to leave to cook dinner and they continued, I
only spent about 1/2 an hour.
questions, if you have time to respond, That would be
great! And btw, everyone's in bed now, so I'm not at
my computer while the kids are needing me! ;oD
Denise
Denise
Please visit Symphony Sam, an exciting upcoming TV show for children about Classical Music that we are creating:
http://www.hotmusic.org/SymphonySam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
> It sounds as if you are new to this, and so are yourMy dd went to ps in K, I unschooled her in 1st grade,
> children.
she went to ps in 2nd and asked to be homeschooled
again, so we unschooled last year and this is our 3rd
year, but 2nd in a row. My ds went to p/t preschool
for 1 year, the year my dd was in 2nd grade and hated
it, so other than that we've unschooled/been at home
together since his birth.
> I won't sugar coat it, more often than not myIs your enthusiasm genuine? What if I don't feel that?
> enthusiasm is met with
> rolling eyes from my tween :). But, she does join
> in, and begins to
> laugh and be connected.
Should I just do it anyway? Will it just happen
eventually? Do you think I shouldn't homeschool if I
can't feel that kind of enthusiasm? Are they better
off in school?
> Sometimes it isDo your kids help you clean up after playing with all
> coloring pages and
> some cool markers, sometimes a big bowl of rice
> mixed with glitter,
> or shells, or a cool book, or some neat fabric.
that? I can barely do the regular housekeeping (and
what I do have time to do housekeeping-wise is very
minimal!) and whenever we do an art project, I can't
get the kids to help clean up. I've explained to them
that we would do more of this sort of thing if we
could clean up together, as a team, but it doesn't
seem to motivate them. Am I expecting too much to ask
them for help?
> IWhat do you think is enough? If I spent one hour a day
> make sure that they
> have had *enough* of other things in their lives.
with them on a project is that enough? Or does that
not even begin to be enough? 3 hours? more?
Can you give me an idea of how much time you spend?
What happens when your own soul hasn't been
replenished and you've got nothing left to give?
> And, lastly, I *do* watch CyberchaseI'm happy to announce to you all that I've been
watching some T.V. with them, including Cyberchase and
talking with them about it. Does it count if I bring
carrots to peel with me etc... to do while I watch?
Also, I played with them with a huge box of popscicle
sticks for a while and they had a blast with that. We
built a city on our dining room table. But eventually
I had to leave to cook dinner and they continued, I
only spent about 1/2 an hour.
> Peace~JessicaThanks Jessica, as you can see I have many more
questions, if you have time to respond, That would be
great! And btw, everyone's in bed now, so I'm not at
my computer while the kids are needing me! ;oD
Denise
Denise
Please visit Symphony Sam, an exciting upcoming TV show for children about Classical Music that we are creating:
http://www.hotmusic.org/SymphonySam
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Denise Thomas
--- Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...> wrote:
guys, because I am already struggling to fit in
everything that needs to get done like food prep,
picking up the house, occasionally but rarely cleaning
the house (seriously I am not a neat freak, I really
rarely clean!), laundry, dishes, food shopping, paying
bills, running the buying club etc...
been a workaholic, for not much pay either! He was
working 7 days a week for a while, 3 days at 14 hour
shift (2 diff. jobs) so the only way I could take care
of me and nurture myself was to do it with the kids
around. Not having ANY free time until they are older
doesn't sounf healthy to me, are you sure? I tend to
just get grumpier and grumpier until I get a break,
doesn't everyone need a break form being with other
people, kids or adults? I consider myself to be very
social, but even I need breaks!
Now that my husband has a more normal schedule, I
expect to not need so much "free time" while the kids
are around.
Also, I notice that if I don't get a certain amount of
time to myself to pursue my interests, I suffer from
insomnia. I lay in bed for hours thinking about what I
want to do, or I get up and write or read or get on
the computer and accomplish some of the stuff. But if
I don't do this, I still don't get to sleep until 3, 4
or sometimes even 5am!
But the goal of unschooling
to learn! I want the best for my kids as do we all,
and I truly believe that their needs are not met by
schools, especially public schools and when i tried
doing school-at-home it was a complete and utter
failure! Then I discovered unschooling, but even that
isn't quite working. I am lost and confused!
put that into practice? It's easier said than done.
But I want concrete suggestions on how to do it. I'll
try waht you guys suggest!
suggestion!
More suggestions are welcome and needed!
1. to save money
2. We have noticed a direct corralation between the
violence on the shows that my son (5 yo) watches and
the violence he uses to vent his frustrations. So
after trying the radical unschooling idea of letting
them chose thir own shows for about 2 years, we
finally gave that up and started limiting what he
could watch.
We do however have a pass at blockbuster and get a lot
of videos.
Yes, I do suffer on and off with depression and have
for years. I was on medication for years, I have
received and continue to receive counseling, have made
huge changes in my diet to improve this, but still
occasionally get really depressed.
Are you in a
the past 2-3 years, my father died of cancer a year
ago this month and I've been close to a divorce
several times in the past couple years, but continue
to take steps to try to save my marriage.
You need to be with them. Children run
which is abnormal sensitivity to everyday sound levels
or noises, I am especially very sensitivity to high
pitched sounds. But your bringing this up has
motivated me to look into this further to see if it
can be treated. When I was diagnosed with it, the
doctor said there wasn't anything that could be done,
but my faith in doctors is very shaky, so I will do
some research to see if there is a treatment!
suggestions? I would LOVE that! I promise to try them!
You won't be wasting your time!
As the great Yoda says "Do or do not,
know what you're saying, but the best I can manage
right now is to do less and less yelling and hope it
will eventually be easier.
Communication!
too late?
surprise the hell out of them because I'll say "O.K.
let's find something to do together!"
Seriously. Anyone could come into your house
depression. I feel useless, easily replaced by someone
who could do a much better job than me. I sometimes
wonder if my family would do better without me. But
then I remember that if I wasn't around, my husband
would have the kids in public school so fast their
heads would be spinning and their souls certainly
wouldn't be fed there! So I' here!!
:o)
Hence my e-mail to you guys, asking for help.
So here is the beginning of the attempt to do it
right!
stuff with the kids than spend time with me, but we're
working on that one...
to do, I will do some. Am I not a good candidate for
homeschooling if I rarely enjoy these things? I think
I would like them if there was another adult doing
them with me, but that is a problem in my life, always
needing other adults around, not really being with my
kids. I'm wondering if they would actually be better
off in school?
Thanks for any time you have to respond to some of my
questions, I really appreciate the thought provoking!
I am doing some deep deep self examining here.
Denise
__________________________________
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> What first struck me about your post was that youI think I need some time management tips from you
> considered the time
> your kids were watching TV to be your "free time."
>
> While it can happen that kids are ok watching TV for
> a time while a
> parent does something else if your kids are fighting
> this shouldn't be
> your free time.
guys, because I am already struggling to fit in
everything that needs to get done like food prep,
picking up the house, occasionally but rarely cleaning
the house (seriously I am not a neat freak, I really
rarely clean!), laundry, dishes, food shopping, paying
bills, running the buying club etc...
> You might find free time when your kids are asleepMy husband has been working a LOT lately, always has
> or when your partner
> can be with the kids or you might not get much or
> any free time until
> your kids are older.
been a workaholic, for not much pay either! He was
working 7 days a week for a while, 3 days at 14 hour
shift (2 diff. jobs) so the only way I could take care
of me and nurture myself was to do it with the kids
around. Not having ANY free time until they are older
doesn't sounf healthy to me, are you sure? I tend to
just get grumpier and grumpier until I get a break,
doesn't everyone need a break form being with other
people, kids or adults? I consider myself to be very
social, but even I need breaks!
Now that my husband has a more normal schedule, I
expect to not need so much "free time" while the kids
are around.
Also, I notice that if I don't get a certain amount of
time to myself to pursue my interests, I suffer from
insomnia. I lay in bed for hours thinking about what I
want to do, or I get up and write or read or get on
the computer and accomplish some of the stuff. But if
I don't do this, I still don't get to sleep until 3, 4
or sometimes even 5am!
But the goal of unschooling
> is not to findI chose this path because I believe it is the best way
> convenient free time for mom. So maybe you need to
> reassess your
> priorities and think about whether unschooling is a
> deeply held
> belief/philosophy for you or just why you chose this
> path.
to learn! I want the best for my kids as do we all,
and I truly believe that their needs are not met by
schools, especially public schools and when i tried
doing school-at-home it was a complete and utter
failure! Then I discovered unschooling, but even that
isn't quite working. I am lost and confused!
> your priority is to findNo, you're right, my priority is my kids, but how to
> free time.
put that into practice? It's easier said than done.
But I want concrete suggestions on how to do it. I'll
try waht you guys suggest!
> Successful unschooling and a strong relationshipOK, I've started doing that, thank you for the
> with your kids will
> absolutely require you to be interested in what
> they're doing. You don't
> have to like cyberchase but you can watch with them
> and talk to them and
> discover why *they* like cyberchase. That's the
> important thing here.
suggestion!
More suggestions are welcome and needed!
> One possible step toward finding shows you all enjoyWe don't have cable for 2 reasons:
> would be more
> options. If you're limiting their options on
> purpose I don't think you
> should complain that you don't enjoy the shows
> they're choosing. <g> I
> recommend getting more channels and then maybe
> another TV so that even
> more options are available to all of you.
1. to save money
2. We have noticed a direct corralation between the
violence on the shows that my son (5 yo) watches and
the violence he uses to vent his frustrations. So
after trying the radical unschooling idea of letting
them chose thir own shows for about 2 years, we
finally gave that up and started limiting what he
could watch.
We do however have a pass at blockbuster and get a lot
of videos.
> You are blocking your children out. Are youInteresting that you ask this!
> depressed?
Yes, I do suffer on and off with depression and have
for years. I was on medication for years, I have
received and continue to receive counseling, have made
huge changes in my diet to improve this, but still
occasionally get really depressed.
Are you in a
> rut?Well that too! I've had a lot of health challenges for
the past 2-3 years, my father died of cancer a year
ago this month and I've been close to a divorce
several times in the past couple years, but continue
to take steps to try to save my marriage.
You need to be with them. Children run
> around and play loudly,I have a condition with my ears called Hyperacusis
> that's what they do. What's stopping you from
> playing with them?
which is abnormal sensitivity to everyday sound levels
or noises, I am especially very sensitivity to high
pitched sounds. But your bringing this up has
motivated me to look into this further to see if it
can be treated. When I was diagnosed with it, the
doctor said there wasn't anything that could be done,
but my faith in doctors is very shaky, so I will do
some research to see if there is a treatment!
>Do you need a list of
> ***I don't interact with them as much as I'd like
> to, but when I do, I am
> easily
> bored by what they do,***
> fun things to offerYes, yes yes! Please, could you all throw out
> and do with your kids? People here could brainstorm
> for you.
suggestions? I would LOVE that! I promise to try them!
You won't be wasting your time!
As the great Yoda says "Do or do not,
> there is no try."Yeah, but did Yoda have kids??? ;oD Just kidding, I
know what you're saying, but the best I can manage
right now is to do less and less yelling and hope it
will eventually be easier.
>No, not lecturing, we are learning Nonviolent
> Some constructive talk might be ok as long as
> constructive talk isn't
> code for lecturing.
Communication!
> It sounds like you are disconnected from your kids.Yes, I am! How do I reconnect with them before it's
too late?
> They're asking you for help and you're refusing.O.K. the next time they say they are bored, I'll
> What are you there
> for?
surprise the hell out of them because I'll say "O.K.
let's find something to do together!"
Seriously. Anyone could come into your house
> and cook and clean,But nobody does!!!
> so why are *you* there?Sometimes I wonder that myself! It contributes to my
depression. I feel useless, easily replaced by someone
who could do a much better job than me. I sometimes
wonder if my family would do better without me. But
then I remember that if I wasn't around, my husband
would have the kids in public school so fast their
heads would be spinning and their souls certainly
wouldn't be fed there! So I' here!!
> For unschooling to be successful you will need to beWell, I was wondering if I might be doing it wrong!
> involved with your
> children. That means helping them live and play
> happily, helping them
> find things they love, helping them solve problems.
:o)
Hence my e-mail to you guys, asking for help.
So here is the beginning of the attempt to do it
right!
> If you went to your partner and said you were boredWell that happens actually, I think he'd rather do
> how would you feel if
> your partner said, essentially, "go away and be
> bored somewhere else."
stuff with the kids than spend time with me, but we're
working on that one...
> How many times could someone you love do that to youI see what you mean!
> before you started
> to feel like you weren't important to them at all?
> ***So, as you can see, I am not facilitaing muchThank you for the long list of suggestions of things
> learning.***
> Play games.
to do, I will do some. Am I not a good candidate for
homeschooling if I rarely enjoy these things? I think
I would like them if there was another adult doing
them with me, but that is a problem in my life, always
needing other adults around, not really being with my
kids. I'm wondering if they would actually be better
off in school?
Thanks for any time you have to respond to some of my
questions, I really appreciate the thought provoking!
I am doing some deep deep self examining here.
Denise
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Denise Thomas
--- Brandie <scrapdiva73@...> wrote:
the computer each day? I am wondering how to fit all
this in and think that the only thing that can give is
computer time, but I'm not sure what to cut out! I'll
do it though, for my kids!
diagnosed, but I've got some typical symptoms, like
the inability to focus when there is background noise.
That's why the door is closed.
How much time do you
amount of time?
I'm not saying that every minute needs to
each day on average to make unschooling an option for
us?
unschooling was. Waiting until my kids come to me and
ask specifically for what they want me to do and meet
those needs as best I can. Is that not right!? It
certainly hasn't been working for us! Wow, I can see
why my daughter wants to go back to school! So I'll
work on this!
Have you ever heard someone say
that helps!
stores, but I hate shopping at thrift stores!!!
(Actually I hate shopping period!)
I know I know, it's not about ME, it's for the kids!!!
I think you
but that you might
this, but I am trying to spend LESS time on line,
so...???
motivated to keep my kids out of school, so I'll
reprioritize my time and MAKE time!!!
When do you have time to keep up with a blog???!!!
If you have time to answer some more of my questions,
I'd be honored!
Denise
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
> So, they are by themselves most of the evenings whenDo you mind sharing with me how much time you spend on
> you do your food buying club/emailing/internet
> searches, plus also by themselves for an hour to an
> hour and a half each morning while you do email and
> internet searching? This seems like a lot of time
> that you are on the computer, away from them.
the computer each day? I am wondering how to fit all
this in and think that the only thing that can give is
computer time, but I'm not sure what to cut out! I'll
do it though, for my kids!
> Can you work with the door open? Can the computerI can't actually, I believe I have ADD. I was never
> be
> in the main part of the house?
diagnosed, but I've got some typical symptoms, like
the inability to focus when there is background noise.
That's why the door is closed.
How much time do you
> really NEED each day on the computer?I don't know really, what is a reasonable, healthy
amount of time?
> It's not like a girlfriend of yours who might invitePoint taken.
> you to a play that you might think would be boring
> so
> you decline the invitation...these are your
> children.
I'm not saying that every minute needs to
> be together,How much time do you feel I should spend with the kids
each day on average to make unschooling an option for
us?
> It seems to me that you might be viewing unschoolingYou hit the nail on the head! That's what I thought
> soley as child-led. While aspects of unschooling
> are
> child-led, I really don't prefer that term, because
> it
> makes it appear that unschooling is only about the
> child coming to you, the child coming up with all
> the
> ideas. It's not just them coming to you, it's also
unschooling was. Waiting until my kids come to me and
ask specifically for what they want me to do and meet
those needs as best I can. Is that not right!? It
certainly hasn't been working for us! Wow, I can see
why my daughter wants to go back to school! So I'll
work on this!
Have you ever heard someone say
> that parents who unschool are "tour guides", ratherNo I hadn't heard the "tour Guide" analogy, thanks,
> than teachers. Are you being a good tour guide?
> Are
> you providing them everything they need to live a
> rich, exciting, fullfilling life?
that helps!
> You tell us, are you providing enough otherNo, so I guess I'll do the rounds at the thrift
> alternatives? Is there plenty of books, toys,
> puzzles, games, arts 'n' craft materials, coloring
> books, outdoor items, etc.?
stores, but I hate shopping at thrift stores!!!
(Actually I hate shopping period!)
I know I know, it's not about ME, it's for the kids!!!
I think you
> areThank you.
> on your way to getting it right,
but that you might
> need to learn more about unschooling.Yeah, and I've gotten a bunch of good links to do
this, but I am trying to spend LESS time on line,
so...???
> Have you read about strewing?O.K. I'll read the links you included! I really am
motivated to keep my kids out of school, so I'll
reprioritize my time and MAKE time!!!
> BrandieThanks for your help!
> http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
> http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
When do you have time to keep up with a blog???!!!
If you have time to answer some more of my questions,
I'd be honored!
Denise
>__________________________________
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Denise Thomas
--- Liz in AZ <eerrhhaz@...> wrote:
you might read Playful Parenting by Leonard
for being efficient!
Thanks for the suggestion Liz, I'll look it up on
amazon right now!
Denise
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
you might read Playful Parenting by Leonard
> Cohen.I do most of my reading in the bathroom! How's that
> But don't read it when you could be hanging out with
> them!
for being efficient!
Thanks for the suggestion Liz, I'll look it up on
amazon right now!
Denise
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Angela
<<Do your kids help you clean up after playing with all
that? I can barely do the regular housekeeping (and
what I do have time to do housekeeping-wise is very
minimal!) and whenever we do an art project, I can't
get the kids to help clean up. I've explained to them
that we would do more of this sort of thing if we
could clean up together, as a team, but it doesn't
seem to motivate them. Am I expecting too much to ask
them for help?>>
When my kids make huge project messes, they help clean up some, but I also
help and I am able to do a larger share because I am faster and more
efficient at this point. I still ask them to do certain things like, "please
put the marker tub back on the shelf." I don't just leave them to clean it
up alone or to figure out what to clean. Looking at big messes is
overwhelming to me so I know it must be for the kids too. Giving specific
suggestions helps.
<<<
with them on a project is that enough? Or does that
not even begin to be enough? 3 hours? more?
Can you give me an idea of how much time you spend?
What happens when your own soul hasn't been
replenished and you've got nothing left to give?>>>
It really depends on the kids. Have they gone a while not feeling like
they've had enough? If they have, they will be more needy for a while than
a child who has felt they have had enough. I spend the bulk of my day doing
things with my kids. We often eat a dinner that takes only minutes to cook
and the basics really don't take long. My standards aren't very high when
it comes to a clean house anymore. They used to be higher but I've let them
slide in order to do more with the kids. Some day they'll be gone and my
house will be neater then.
<<I'm happy to announce to you all that I've been
watching some T.V. with them, including Cyberchase and
talking with them about it. Does it count if I bring
carrots to peel with me etc... to do while I watch?
Also, I played with them with a huge box of popscicle
sticks for a while and they had a blast with that. We
built a city on our dining room table. But eventually
I had to leave to cook dinner and they continued, I
only spent about 1/2 an hour.>>
Sounds like you are on your way. I don't see anything wrong with multi
tasking. I occasionally knit while I watch TV, with or without the kids. I
think playing something for half an hour is a great start. But keep in mind
that you chose to go cook dinner, you didn't have to. You could choose to
have cereal and raw carrots for supper or something else that is quick.
Often my kids would rather eat something fast and have more of my time.
People who feel like they *have to do something often feel like victims but
in reality they are making choices.
Angela
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that? I can barely do the regular housekeeping (and
what I do have time to do housekeeping-wise is very
minimal!) and whenever we do an art project, I can't
get the kids to help clean up. I've explained to them
that we would do more of this sort of thing if we
could clean up together, as a team, but it doesn't
seem to motivate them. Am I expecting too much to ask
them for help?>>
When my kids make huge project messes, they help clean up some, but I also
help and I am able to do a larger share because I am faster and more
efficient at this point. I still ask them to do certain things like, "please
put the marker tub back on the shelf." I don't just leave them to clean it
up alone or to figure out what to clean. Looking at big messes is
overwhelming to me so I know it must be for the kids too. Giving specific
suggestions helps.
<<<
> IWhat do you think is enough? If I spent one hour a day
> make sure that they
> have had *enough* of other things in their lives.
with them on a project is that enough? Or does that
not even begin to be enough? 3 hours? more?
Can you give me an idea of how much time you spend?
What happens when your own soul hasn't been
replenished and you've got nothing left to give?>>>
It really depends on the kids. Have they gone a while not feeling like
they've had enough? If they have, they will be more needy for a while than
a child who has felt they have had enough. I spend the bulk of my day doing
things with my kids. We often eat a dinner that takes only minutes to cook
and the basics really don't take long. My standards aren't very high when
it comes to a clean house anymore. They used to be higher but I've let them
slide in order to do more with the kids. Some day they'll be gone and my
house will be neater then.
<<I'm happy to announce to you all that I've been
watching some T.V. with them, including Cyberchase and
talking with them about it. Does it count if I bring
carrots to peel with me etc... to do while I watch?
Also, I played with them with a huge box of popscicle
sticks for a while and they had a blast with that. We
built a city on our dining room table. But eventually
I had to leave to cook dinner and they continued, I
only spent about 1/2 an hour.>>
Sounds like you are on your way. I don't see anything wrong with multi
tasking. I occasionally knit while I watch TV, with or without the kids. I
think playing something for half an hour is a great start. But keep in mind
that you chose to go cook dinner, you didn't have to. You could choose to
have cereal and raw carrots for supper or something else that is quick.
Often my kids would rather eat something fast and have more of my time.
People who feel like they *have to do something often feel like victims but
in reality they are making choices.
Angela
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Angela
<<Do you mind sharing with me how much time you spend on
the computer each day? I am wondering how to fit all
this in and think that the only thing that can give is
computer time, but I'm not sure what to cut out! I'll
do it though, for my kids!>>
It varies widely. Probably from 30 minutes to several hours, depending on
the day. This morning so far, I have spent 30 minutes and I am about done.
(turned into almost an hour before I finished this email)(I'll answer this
email then go exercise.) I woke up at 6:45, made coffee and my 10 yo
watched Arthur (which I've watched with her many times over the years but
don't regularly anymore) and I got on the computer and drank coffee. I had
instructions from my 9 yo to wake her at 7:30. I just did a few minutes ago
and we spent 10 minutes cuddling in her bed.
Now we are downstairs. Dh is on his computer (with all of us gathered
around, mine is next to his-actually, we have 4 in a row, one for each of
us) showing us all a satellite site and you can see our house and all our
neighbors' houses. It is cool. (now I am getting up to get dd a
poptart)(and while I was out there I put the rest of last night's dirty
dishes in the dishwasher and started it)(and this is getting long). Younger
dd is now checking her email. After I exercise, I'll help the kids get
dressed and hair brushed so we can go to the barn where we board our horses
and they will ride and we'll all shovel stalls, etc. This afternoon we'll
grab a quick lunch and spend the rest of the afternoon getting ready for a
horse show they are going to be in tomorrow. I have costumes to work on and
supplies to gather. If I get another load of dishes put in the dishwasher
and the other load put away, I'll feel pretty good about my house today.
I'm sure I'll get back on the computer this afternoon and evening too, as
well as watch some Tv with the kids and maybe fit in a game or two. Also
we'll go back to the barn at feeding time and bring the horses in and feed
them and help out more.
<<I don't know really, what is a reasonable, healthy
amount of time?>>
It depends.
<<How much time do you feel I should spend with the kids
each day on average to make unschooling an option for
us?>>
A lot. Many hours at your kids ages.
<<You hit the nail on the head! That's what I thought
unschooling was. Waiting until my kids come to me and
ask specifically for what they want me to do and meet
those needs as best I can. Is that not right!? It
certainly hasn't been working for us! Wow, I can see
why my daughter wants to go back to school! So I'll
work on this!>>
it's about providing them with a rich environment and an interesting life.
Give them some jumping off points to discover new things.
<<No I hadn't heard the "tour Guide" analogy, thanks,
that helps!>>
I like the term facilitator.
Got to run.
Angela
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the computer each day? I am wondering how to fit all
this in and think that the only thing that can give is
computer time, but I'm not sure what to cut out! I'll
do it though, for my kids!>>
It varies widely. Probably from 30 minutes to several hours, depending on
the day. This morning so far, I have spent 30 minutes and I am about done.
(turned into almost an hour before I finished this email)(I'll answer this
email then go exercise.) I woke up at 6:45, made coffee and my 10 yo
watched Arthur (which I've watched with her many times over the years but
don't regularly anymore) and I got on the computer and drank coffee. I had
instructions from my 9 yo to wake her at 7:30. I just did a few minutes ago
and we spent 10 minutes cuddling in her bed.
Now we are downstairs. Dh is on his computer (with all of us gathered
around, mine is next to his-actually, we have 4 in a row, one for each of
us) showing us all a satellite site and you can see our house and all our
neighbors' houses. It is cool. (now I am getting up to get dd a
poptart)(and while I was out there I put the rest of last night's dirty
dishes in the dishwasher and started it)(and this is getting long). Younger
dd is now checking her email. After I exercise, I'll help the kids get
dressed and hair brushed so we can go to the barn where we board our horses
and they will ride and we'll all shovel stalls, etc. This afternoon we'll
grab a quick lunch and spend the rest of the afternoon getting ready for a
horse show they are going to be in tomorrow. I have costumes to work on and
supplies to gather. If I get another load of dishes put in the dishwasher
and the other load put away, I'll feel pretty good about my house today.
I'm sure I'll get back on the computer this afternoon and evening too, as
well as watch some Tv with the kids and maybe fit in a game or two. Also
we'll go back to the barn at feeding time and bring the horses in and feed
them and help out more.
<<I don't know really, what is a reasonable, healthy
amount of time?>>
It depends.
<<How much time do you feel I should spend with the kids
each day on average to make unschooling an option for
us?>>
A lot. Many hours at your kids ages.
<<You hit the nail on the head! That's what I thought
unschooling was. Waiting until my kids come to me and
ask specifically for what they want me to do and meet
those needs as best I can. Is that not right!? It
certainly hasn't been working for us! Wow, I can see
why my daughter wants to go back to school! So I'll
work on this!>>
it's about providing them with a rich environment and an interesting life.
Give them some jumping off points to discover new things.
<<No I hadn't heard the "tour Guide" analogy, thanks,
that helps!>>
I like the term facilitator.
Got to run.
Angela
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huntmom1996
--- In [email protected], Denise Thomas
<denisedthomas@y...> wrote:
***Is your enthusiasm genuine? What if I don't feel that?
honest.
*** Do you think I shouldn't homeschool if I
you focus most of your energy on connecting with your children, you
will find your own answer to this question.
You know, I have been finding that enthusiasm is "catching", but some
one needs to start it. Sometimes, I am faking, but usually only a
little and only for the beginning, because I can't fool my children.
There are loads of things that I put out that they don't care for,
and I have to be a little thick-skinned about that, too, if *my*
enthusiasm was real.
***Do your kids help you clean up after playing with all
y.o. is a neat child by nature, he is more helpful than my 8 y.o.,
but it is three year old help <grin>.
My house is usually messy, since I am not as organized as I'd like. I
actually have found flylady.net to be helpful with getting organized
and keeping house. Since I was raised to be a career/thinking woman,
by a thinking/career woman who didn't value home making, I really
don't know how to clean or when or why or anything.
Sometimes, I do lose it and tell them I need some help because
the "stuff" everywhere is geting to me. Sometimes I just tell my
husband this. But those occurances are rare. Mostly, we live in
house that looks like there are two active kids and dog and a cat and
a turtle and a fish and a mom and a dad and friends and family who
eat and create and play and live.
I try to see the Joy of projects as a gift for my children, with no
strings attached.
***What do you think is enough? ***
For us, this varies day to day. I will say, tho, that in the
beginning, it was most of the time my children were awake. My
children really tested whether it was true that were going to play
together. But, also, my kids will only spend 1/2 hour or so on any
one thing. My daughter would be with me 24/7~never be alone playing,
literally. Since she learned to tell time, this has been easier,
because I will say, "After 15 minutes to check my email, I will get
out the sewing stuff" or "At 1 o'clock, I'll try to give your brother
a nap, can we (do whatever) then when we have some time together?"
***Can you give me an idea of how much time you spend?***
My daughter likes to play Barbies. I didn't even have any growing
up, they don't interest me, and when I do play with them I am
ridiculous in my play to keep myself entertained (for instance,
Barbie leaves Ken to start an anarchist revolution that frees all the
little Barbies, whatever they are called :D).
This doesn't work for my daughter, who is much more traditional in
her story-telling. <g>. I told her that I love to *hear* her stories
with Barbie (which I *DO*), so most of the time, I will lie on her
bed (yay!) or put away laundry in her room (less yay~but still good!)
while she plays and tells her stories. Sometimes, I can even go in
to the bathroom across the hall and clean it while I am listening.
For some reason, my kids don't see book reading as making me as
unavailable to them as the computer, and I can bring a book into
where they are playing.
Some parents I know listen to a music tape on head phones while
sitting on the couch reading while their kids watch tv. I can't have
that much input going on around me, but it might work for you.
I find that the beginning of the day connection is the most
imnportant one for us. If I really fully give time then, I can
be "freed" up a little later on.
***What happens when your own soul hasn't been
for myself. Last night~from 8:30-closing, I went to Borders
Bookstore (they are open until 10) with another mom and her
daughter. The kids played and we chatted. It was great, and the
other mom's idea, but I think I will suggest it again.
If I fully commit to replenshing my own self, it doesn't take much
time or money. If I am snatching time at the computer or on the
phone, or whatever, it doesn't work as well, and can waste hours. But
if I say to my husband, I am taking a bath, and go alone and sit in
hot water, I can feel better in minutes.
I like to go to the bookstore alone, too, in the evening for a hour
and look at a huge stack of books (landscaping books are calling me
lately) and drink a "special" coffee drink. I have only done that
twice in the last four months, but it was great, inexpensive, and I
know I *could* do it again if I needed to.
***I'm happy to announce to you all that I've been
stuff!!
***Does it count if I bring
families, or when we are home for a while and into our own things (my
daughter's on the computer and I am reading, for example). I check in
a lot. I learned this from Anne Ohman, but I pat my children, touch
their shoulders, kiss their heads, and tell them I love them. It
connects us even when we are persuing separate agendas. Sometimes,
it feels a little contrived, but it is becoming a habit.
I would recommend _The Intentional Family_ by William Doherty, as it
is mostly about creating rituals to connect the family, although
maybe I should read it again with unschooly eyes before I recommend
it.
Denise, I think that you are being very brave to ask all these
questions and take some seriously critical responses and keep digging
deeper. Your children are lucky to have you seeking out answers to
make you lives full of Joy and Wonder.
Peace~Jessica
<denisedthomas@y...> wrote:
***Is your enthusiasm genuine? What if I don't feel that?
> Should I just do it anyway? ***What are you enthusiastic about? Start there, so your feelings are
honest.
*** Do you think I shouldn't homeschool if I
> can't feel that kind of enthusiasm? Are they betterOnly you can tell that, but if unschooling is what you want to do and
> off in school?***
you focus most of your energy on connecting with your children, you
will find your own answer to this question.
You know, I have been finding that enthusiasm is "catching", but some
one needs to start it. Sometimes, I am faking, but usually only a
little and only for the beginning, because I can't fool my children.
There are loads of things that I put out that they don't care for,
and I have to be a little thick-skinned about that, too, if *my*
enthusiasm was real.
***Do your kids help you clean up after playing with all
> that? ***No. They are 8 and 3, and they don't help. Actually, since my 3
y.o. is a neat child by nature, he is more helpful than my 8 y.o.,
but it is three year old help <grin>.
My house is usually messy, since I am not as organized as I'd like. I
actually have found flylady.net to be helpful with getting organized
and keeping house. Since I was raised to be a career/thinking woman,
by a thinking/career woman who didn't value home making, I really
don't know how to clean or when or why or anything.
Sometimes, I do lose it and tell them I need some help because
the "stuff" everywhere is geting to me. Sometimes I just tell my
husband this. But those occurances are rare. Mostly, we live in
house that looks like there are two active kids and dog and a cat and
a turtle and a fish and a mom and a dad and friends and family who
eat and create and play and live.
I try to see the Joy of projects as a gift for my children, with no
strings attached.
***What do you think is enough? ***
For us, this varies day to day. I will say, tho, that in the
beginning, it was most of the time my children were awake. My
children really tested whether it was true that were going to play
together. But, also, my kids will only spend 1/2 hour or so on any
one thing. My daughter would be with me 24/7~never be alone playing,
literally. Since she learned to tell time, this has been easier,
because I will say, "After 15 minutes to check my email, I will get
out the sewing stuff" or "At 1 o'clock, I'll try to give your brother
a nap, can we (do whatever) then when we have some time together?"
***Can you give me an idea of how much time you spend?***
My daughter likes to play Barbies. I didn't even have any growing
up, they don't interest me, and when I do play with them I am
ridiculous in my play to keep myself entertained (for instance,
Barbie leaves Ken to start an anarchist revolution that frees all the
little Barbies, whatever they are called :D).
This doesn't work for my daughter, who is much more traditional in
her story-telling. <g>. I told her that I love to *hear* her stories
with Barbie (which I *DO*), so most of the time, I will lie on her
bed (yay!) or put away laundry in her room (less yay~but still good!)
while she plays and tells her stories. Sometimes, I can even go in
to the bathroom across the hall and clean it while I am listening.
For some reason, my kids don't see book reading as making me as
unavailable to them as the computer, and I can bring a book into
where they are playing.
Some parents I know listen to a music tape on head phones while
sitting on the couch reading while their kids watch tv. I can't have
that much input going on around me, but it might work for you.
I find that the beginning of the day connection is the most
imnportant one for us. If I really fully give time then, I can
be "freed" up a little later on.
***What happens when your own soul hasn't been
> replenished and you've got nothing left to give?***This is a real problem. I am constantly trying to find this balance
for myself. Last night~from 8:30-closing, I went to Borders
Bookstore (they are open until 10) with another mom and her
daughter. The kids played and we chatted. It was great, and the
other mom's idea, but I think I will suggest it again.
If I fully commit to replenshing my own self, it doesn't take much
time or money. If I am snatching time at the computer or on the
phone, or whatever, it doesn't work as well, and can waste hours. But
if I say to my husband, I am taking a bath, and go alone and sit in
hot water, I can feel better in minutes.
I like to go to the bookstore alone, too, in the evening for a hour
and look at a huge stack of books (landscaping books are calling me
lately) and drink a "special" coffee drink. I have only done that
twice in the last four months, but it was great, inexpensive, and I
know I *could* do it again if I needed to.
***I'm happy to announce to you all that I've been
> watching some T.V. with them, including Cyberchase andYippee! Hooray! You might even find you start to like some of this
> talking with them about it. ***
stuff!!
***Does it count if I bring
> carrots to peel with me etc... to do while I watch?***I think so. When we go out somewhere, especially with other
families, or when we are home for a while and into our own things (my
daughter's on the computer and I am reading, for example). I check in
a lot. I learned this from Anne Ohman, but I pat my children, touch
their shoulders, kiss their heads, and tell them I love them. It
connects us even when we are persuing separate agendas. Sometimes,
it feels a little contrived, but it is becoming a habit.
I would recommend _The Intentional Family_ by William Doherty, as it
is mostly about creating rituals to connect the family, although
maybe I should read it again with unschooly eyes before I recommend
it.
Denise, I think that you are being very brave to ask all these
questions and take some seriously critical responses and keep digging
deeper. Your children are lucky to have you seeking out answers to
make you lives full of Joy and Wonder.
Peace~Jessica
Betsy Hill
** As the great Yoda says "Do or do not,
And when it comes to proposing fun activities to our kids, there is only
"try" and "try again". (There is no "make them do".)
I have only one kid, and he prefers TV and videogaming over most arts
and crafts things and most outings. Sometimes I get discouraged, and
it's easy for me to just assume that he won't want to go on the latest
field trip that I get emails about. Sometimes I don't even bother to
ask -- but that's probably not the best policy. I need to try to ask
more, but selectively more, not an overwhelming bombardment.
What about really looking closely about what is working for you. What
are the things that your kids enjoy the most? And the second most? Can
you do those more? What are the things that you like to do with them?
It's okay to pick things that are easy to set up and clean up. Start
small if you have to, but move forwards. (I think you already are.)
I hope having your husband work less will mean that the kids can get
more adult attention without having to have all of it come from you. It
sounds like you have been being stressed and unhappy, and that has been
leading you to shut down.
Betsy
> there is no try."**I don't think he had kids, that's true.
And when it comes to proposing fun activities to our kids, there is only
"try" and "try again". (There is no "make them do".)
I have only one kid, and he prefers TV and videogaming over most arts
and crafts things and most outings. Sometimes I get discouraged, and
it's easy for me to just assume that he won't want to go on the latest
field trip that I get emails about. Sometimes I don't even bother to
ask -- but that's probably not the best policy. I need to try to ask
more, but selectively more, not an overwhelming bombardment.
What about really looking closely about what is working for you. What
are the things that your kids enjoy the most? And the second most? Can
you do those more? What are the things that you like to do with them?
It's okay to pick things that are easy to set up and clean up. Start
small if you have to, but move forwards. (I think you already are.)
I hope having your husband work less will mean that the kids can get
more adult attention without having to have all of it come from you. It
sounds like you have been being stressed and unhappy, and that has been
leading you to shut down.
Betsy
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 7, 2005, at 2:06 AM, Denise Thomas wrote:
The thing I find compelling about the computer is that the "tasks"
are neatly laid out and have clear beginnings and ends. For instance
email is all neatly organized and you can go through them one by one.
Games have clearly defined beginning and ends and specific tasks in
the middle.
But I think often the computer is filling a need without actually
solving it. It would be nice to have life organized so we could go
through each item one by one. But fulfilling that need by being on
the computer doesn't make life organized. It just saps time from the
rest of life. :-/
this done now so that will have to wait until later," but the less we
say that, the more we *do* get back to them and do what we had to put
off, the less needy they'll be.
Some kids are of course more needful of one on one than others but we
can't make them less needy by not being available. We will make them
more needy. The more often we say no to their requests, the more
often we don't follow up and help them when we have time, the more
often they have to ask to see if now is the right time. Putting them
off just makes them ask more. Unless we've put them off so much that
they give up and know that Mom has more important things to do than
be with them.
to them when they do ask. And "asking" might be in body language or
in being interested in something. If, for instance, they like cats
and you stumble across a video on cats, bring it home :-)
In the mean time, between them asking for things, you take them fun
places, do fun things with them, offer them opportunities. Whether or
not they take up the opportunities is up to them. Depends entirely on
their interest. You also listen to them when they're engaged and keep
out of their way.
Sometimes we have to tend to life, like shopping, but we can make it
fun for them too by taking them some place afterwards, having new
snacks, giving them tasks to do like getting an item that matches a
coupon and so on -- and sometimes by going shopping when they can
stay home with dad.
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Do you mind sharing with me how much time you spend onI spend 2 or 3 hours but I get up *really* early before anyone else ;-)
> the computer each day?
> I don't know really, what is a reasonable, healthyWhatever doesn't interfere with what is a higher priority! :-)
> amount of time?
The thing I find compelling about the computer is that the "tasks"
are neatly laid out and have clear beginnings and ends. For instance
email is all neatly organized and you can go through them one by one.
Games have clearly defined beginning and ends and specific tasks in
the middle.
But I think often the computer is filling a need without actually
solving it. It would be nice to have life organized so we could go
through each item one by one. But fulfilling that need by being on
the computer doesn't make life organized. It just saps time from the
rest of life. :-/
> How much time do you feel I should spend with the kidsAs much as *they* need. Sometimes we will need to say "I need to get
> each day on average to make unschooling an option for
> us?
this done now so that will have to wait until later," but the less we
say that, the more we *do* get back to them and do what we had to put
off, the less needy they'll be.
Some kids are of course more needful of one on one than others but we
can't make them less needy by not being available. We will make them
more needy. The more often we say no to their requests, the more
often we don't follow up and help them when we have time, the more
often they have to ask to see if now is the right time. Putting them
off just makes them ask more. Unless we've put them off so much that
they give up and know that Mom has more important things to do than
be with them.
> Waiting until my kids come to me andI think it's better expressed not as waiting for them but listening
> ask specifically for what they want me to do and meet
> those needs as best I can. Is that not right!?
to them when they do ask. And "asking" might be in body language or
in being interested in something. If, for instance, they like cats
and you stumble across a video on cats, bring it home :-)
In the mean time, between them asking for things, you take them fun
places, do fun things with them, offer them opportunities. Whether or
not they take up the opportunities is up to them. Depends entirely on
their interest. You also listen to them when they're engaged and keep
out of their way.
Sometimes we have to tend to life, like shopping, but we can make it
fun for them too by taking them some place afterwards, having new
snacks, giving them tasks to do like getting an item that matches a
coupon and so on -- and sometimes by going shopping when they can
stay home with dad.
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** I spend 2 or 3 hours but...**
I'd say I spent 2 hours, on days we are home all day and not at the park
or at playdates. But I spend it in chunks much less than an hour, and
my kid (11) seems to enjoy having me NOT talking to him and playing with
him all the time.
(He's in his room now reading the latest Star Wars Cross Sections book.)
**How much time do you feel I should spend with the kids each day on
average to make unschooling an option for us?**
When my son was a toddler I spent all my time with him, or near him, at
least until my husband came home in the evening. He needed less of my
time as he got older, and became noticeably more independent around age
7 or 8.
As a *really* general rule I would think one should expect to spend less
than half of the day on one's own pursuits. (Kids interests should be
more important than our own interests. If all the time goes to us, that
seems iffy.) When my son was an infant and then a toddler, the only
time available for my own pursuits was naptime, and back then my
favorite "pursuit" was sleeping, with sometimes a little reading thrown
in. When he was 5 or 6 I could have some half hour chunks of time,
maybe a couple a day. And when he was 7 and 8 he played for longer
periods by himself. (An only child doesn't start too many fights with
his siblings! <g>)
In the past year, I've probably been able to find 6 hours a day (I know
it sounds shocking!) to "do my own thing" by myself, including
housework, but my son is 11, and is heavily into TV and computer games.
I don't recommend this as the optimal time usage for building
relationships or for having a really rich life. I'm actively trying to
figure out how to make our life richer (without forcibly dragging my son
to the banquet). I also try to check in with him frequently, esp. if
I've been "checked out" for as long as an hour.
General rule: younger kids need more time. Kids who are asking for your
attention need more time. Also possibly kids who are repeating one
activity a big percentage of the time (as at my house) need more
parental face time.
Betsy
PS (I am going out for 6+ hours tomorrow and living my kid with his dad,
who is one of the great dads of all time.) (No, I'm not just saying
this to torture you. <g>) (Or to torture anybody else. This is not
something I did when he was younger.)
I'd say I spent 2 hours, on days we are home all day and not at the park
or at playdates. But I spend it in chunks much less than an hour, and
my kid (11) seems to enjoy having me NOT talking to him and playing with
him all the time.
(He's in his room now reading the latest Star Wars Cross Sections book.)
**How much time do you feel I should spend with the kids each day on
average to make unschooling an option for us?**
When my son was a toddler I spent all my time with him, or near him, at
least until my husband came home in the evening. He needed less of my
time as he got older, and became noticeably more independent around age
7 or 8.
As a *really* general rule I would think one should expect to spend less
than half of the day on one's own pursuits. (Kids interests should be
more important than our own interests. If all the time goes to us, that
seems iffy.) When my son was an infant and then a toddler, the only
time available for my own pursuits was naptime, and back then my
favorite "pursuit" was sleeping, with sometimes a little reading thrown
in. When he was 5 or 6 I could have some half hour chunks of time,
maybe a couple a day. And when he was 7 and 8 he played for longer
periods by himself. (An only child doesn't start too many fights with
his siblings! <g>)
In the past year, I've probably been able to find 6 hours a day (I know
it sounds shocking!) to "do my own thing" by myself, including
housework, but my son is 11, and is heavily into TV and computer games.
I don't recommend this as the optimal time usage for building
relationships or for having a really rich life. I'm actively trying to
figure out how to make our life richer (without forcibly dragging my son
to the banquet). I also try to check in with him frequently, esp. if
I've been "checked out" for as long as an hour.
General rule: younger kids need more time. Kids who are asking for your
attention need more time. Also possibly kids who are repeating one
activity a big percentage of the time (as at my house) need more
parental face time.
Betsy
PS (I am going out for 6+ hours tomorrow and living my kid with his dad,
who is one of the great dads of all time.) (No, I'm not just saying
this to torture you. <g>) (Or to torture anybody else. This is not
something I did when he was younger.)
Cally Brown
Someone commented that it was a shame that Denise asked her questions
just as so many of the experienced unschoolers on this list were off to
conference. Well, I've been homeschooling / unschooling for 19 years,
but don't often post - Sandra and Pam and Joyce and and... seem to say
it all before I even get the e-mails! (different time zone - I'm in New
Zealand) this time I've just been not well enough to spend time on the
computer but......
Just had to say WOW!
So many wonderful responses despite all those missing regulars! Well
done all.
Cally
just as so many of the experienced unschoolers on this list were off to
conference. Well, I've been homeschooling / unschooling for 19 years,
but don't often post - Sandra and Pam and Joyce and and... seem to say
it all before I even get the e-mails! (different time zone - I'm in New
Zealand) this time I've just been not well enough to spend time on the
computer but......
Just had to say WOW!
So many wonderful responses despite all those missing regulars! Well
done all.
Cally
Cally Brown
>My now 18yo prefered outdoor stuff, birds, nature, didn't read till he
> I have only one kid, and he prefers TV and videogaming over most arts
> and crafts things and most outings.
was 12 1/2, refused outright to do any art/craft activities.
He now spends his free time (he works part time) drawing on the
computer, painting and drawing and sculpting etc. considers himself an
artist and looks forward to the time when he can support himself from
his art. Wouldn't have got to this point if I hadn't had art and craft
supplies lying around unused except by myself for years.
Times change, kids, like all people, change. Don't shut off any
opportunities just because they didn't appeal this week - or even this
decade! I'm just so glad I find it impossible to throw away art and
craft stuff!
Cally
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 7, 2005, at 10:37 PM, Cally Brown wrote:
Personally most of the questions I answer are to clarify my own
thinking. I may believe something but I haven't really thought it
through. But explaining it to someone else I find helps me figure out
why I believe what I do :-)
The great thing about lists as opposed to someone's website is the
variety of experiences and viewpoints, not because someone can ask a
question and get the answer written some mythical "right" way. We're
all trying to help people get a good picture of something specific --
the unschooling philosophy -- so they can figure out how to get
there, but all our journeys will be different and will help different
people.
Just because Sandra and I respond to 90% of the questions that come
through here shouldn't stop others from working through and posting
their own understanding of the unschooling philosophy :-) I'd love to
see more of what everyone is writing more often :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> So many wonderful responses despite all those missing regulars! WellI was going to say the same but you said it first ;-)
> done all.
Personally most of the questions I answer are to clarify my own
thinking. I may believe something but I haven't really thought it
through. But explaining it to someone else I find helps me figure out
why I believe what I do :-)
The great thing about lists as opposed to someone's website is the
variety of experiences and viewpoints, not because someone can ask a
question and get the answer written some mythical "right" way. We're
all trying to help people get a good picture of something specific --
the unschooling philosophy -- so they can figure out how to get
there, but all our journeys will be different and will help different
people.
Just because Sandra and I respond to 90% of the questions that come
through here shouldn't stop others from working through and posting
their own understanding of the unschooling philosophy :-) I'd love to
see more of what everyone is writing more often :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanne
>>>Joyce Fetteroll wrote: ">fetteroll@e...> wrote: Personally most of the questions I answer are to clarify my own thinking. I may believe something but I haven't really thought itthrough. But explaining it to someone else I find helps me figure out why I believe what I do :-)>>>
I agree, it's the same for me. :)
>>>> The great thing about lists as opposed to someone's website is thevariety of experiences and viewpoints, not because someone can ask a
question and get the answer written some mythical "right" way. We're
all trying to help people get a good picture of something specific --
the unschooling philosophy -- so they can figure out how to get
there, but all our journeys will be different and will help different
people.>>>>>>
Yes, a list or message board is much more helpful to me than a website because of all the different journeys and thoughts you encounter.
~* Joanne *~ @};-
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (12)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/8/2005 4:23:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
billyandjoanne@... writes:
Yes, a list or message board is much more helpful to me than a website
because of all the different journeys and thoughts you encounter.
At least half of my website consists of writings of other unschoolers,
mostly from discussions like these (greatest hits). Some of Joyce's has quotes
from others too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
billyandjoanne@... writes:
Yes, a list or message board is much more helpful to me than a website
because of all the different journeys and thoughts you encounter.
At least half of my website consists of writings of other unschoolers,
mostly from discussions like these (greatest hits). Some of Joyce's has quotes
from others too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanne
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
of Joyce's has quotes from others too. Sandra>>>>>
Yes they do, which is probably why they've both been helpful to me as
opposed to a web site that is made up of one persons opinion....which
is what I meant by a web site.
>>>>At least half of my website consists of writings of otherunschoolers, mostly from discussions like these (greatest hits). Some
of Joyce's has quotes from others too. Sandra>>>>>
Yes they do, which is probably why they've both been helpful to me as
opposed to a web site that is made up of one persons opinion....which
is what I meant by a web site.
Deb Lewis
***And when it comes to proposing fun activities to our kids, there is
only
"try" and "try again". (There is no "make them do".)***
Nooooooo! <g>
I was referring to the yelling the mom said she was trying to stop. When
the goal is a more peaceful home life trying to stop yelling is not as
good as stopping.
When kids are deschooling and a parent gets anxious and pulls out a
workbook the deschooling process is halted and must be started again from
the beginning. When parents yell the peace and trust is broken and the
process has to start again.
Deb L
only
"try" and "try again". (There is no "make them do".)***
Nooooooo! <g>
I was referring to the yelling the mom said she was trying to stop. When
the goal is a more peaceful home life trying to stop yelling is not as
good as stopping.
When kids are deschooling and a parent gets anxious and pulls out a
workbook the deschooling process is halted and must be started again from
the beginning. When parents yell the peace and trust is broken and the
process has to start again.
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/2005 4:56:43 PM Central Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
In the past year, I've probably been able to find 6 hours a day (I know
it sounds shocking!) to "do my own thing" by myself, including
housework, but my son is 11, and is heavily into TV and computer games.
I don't recommend this as the optimal time usage for building
relationships or for having a really rich life. I'm actively trying to
figure out how to make our life richer (without forcibly dragging my son
to the banquet). I also try to check in with him frequently, esp. if
I've been "checked out" for as long as an hour.
~~~
Betsy, my youngest son is almost 12, and he's the last one at home, and this
is similar to our life, too. He's busy doing his things and I do mine and
we do some together, and we have regular rituals of connecting during the day
that just developed over time. We do go out a lot, though, and we bike
together and do stuff like that.
But there are long periods of time during the day where we don't even talk
to each other, and I can take a nap and wake up and he'd never even know it,
and he could cook himself a meal and I would never even know it. We're happy
this way. He's no longer a toddler. I think it's okay.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
In the past year, I've probably been able to find 6 hours a day (I know
it sounds shocking!) to "do my own thing" by myself, including
housework, but my son is 11, and is heavily into TV and computer games.
I don't recommend this as the optimal time usage for building
relationships or for having a really rich life. I'm actively trying to
figure out how to make our life richer (without forcibly dragging my son
to the banquet). I also try to check in with him frequently, esp. if
I've been "checked out" for as long as an hour.
~~~
Betsy, my youngest son is almost 12, and he's the last one at home, and this
is similar to our life, too. He's busy doing his things and I do mine and
we do some together, and we have regular rituals of connecting during the day
that just developed over time. We do go out a lot, though, and we bike
together and do stuff like that.
But there are long periods of time during the day where we don't even talk
to each other, and I can take a nap and wake up and he'd never even know it,
and he could cook himself a meal and I would never even know it. We're happy
this way. He's no longer a toddler. I think it's okay.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]