sex ed, seriously
[email protected]
This is part of an article on a pregnancy epidemic in Canton, Ohio. I'll
comment in another post.
================================================
Last school year, both high schools in the city's district reported 55
pregnancies. Ninety-nine pregnancies are expected this year, most of them at Timken,
where expecting students get six weeks of maternity leave.
"This has gotten to horrible proportions. I wish I knew the answer to why
it's happening," principal Kim Redmond told the city's daily newspaper The
Repository, which first revealed the pregnancy rate in a column last week. Redmond
did not return several messages left by The Associated Press.
Joanne Hinton, whose 16-year-old daughter, Raechel Hinton, is eight months
pregnant, said she believes the school's abstinence-based sex education program
isn't enough.
"It's time to take the blinders off and realize that these kids are having
sex," she said. "Obviously, abstinence is not working. If we have to, just give
them condoms."
Abstinence-based programs have been growing nationwide at schools over the
past few years. In Ohio, the Bush's administration and the state's health
department have awarded $32 million in grants to Ohio agencies for abstinence
education since 2001.
Hinton stresses that she doesn't condone teenage sex and that her daughter
doesn't fit the mold some may think pregnant teens come from: The Hinton
household has two loving parents with a strong relationship who asked the straight-A
Raechel "45 times a week if she was having sex, doing drugs, drinking. We
were constantly checking on her."
Raechel, who plans to return to the 10th grade at Timken after delivering
and completing an adoption, said many students are sexually active and need more
information about birth control.
I saw the full article here:
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050901151609990003&_ccc=6&
cid=842
but it's probably elsewhere too.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
comment in another post.
================================================
Last school year, both high schools in the city's district reported 55
pregnancies. Ninety-nine pregnancies are expected this year, most of them at Timken,
where expecting students get six weeks of maternity leave.
"This has gotten to horrible proportions. I wish I knew the answer to why
it's happening," principal Kim Redmond told the city's daily newspaper The
Repository, which first revealed the pregnancy rate in a column last week. Redmond
did not return several messages left by The Associated Press.
Joanne Hinton, whose 16-year-old daughter, Raechel Hinton, is eight months
pregnant, said she believes the school's abstinence-based sex education program
isn't enough.
"It's time to take the blinders off and realize that these kids are having
sex," she said. "Obviously, abstinence is not working. If we have to, just give
them condoms."
Abstinence-based programs have been growing nationwide at schools over the
past few years. In Ohio, the Bush's administration and the state's health
department have awarded $32 million in grants to Ohio agencies for abstinence
education since 2001.
Hinton stresses that she doesn't condone teenage sex and that her daughter
doesn't fit the mold some may think pregnant teens come from: The Hinton
household has two loving parents with a strong relationship who asked the straight-A
Raechel "45 times a week if she was having sex, doing drugs, drinking. We
were constantly checking on her."
Raechel, who plans to return to the 10th grade at Timken after delivering
and completing an adoption, said many students are sexually active and need more
information about birth control.
I saw the full article here:
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050901151609990003&_ccc=6&
cid=842
but it's probably elsewhere too.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> -=-If we have to, just giveI wanted to comment on that, which one of the Ohio moms said to a reporter.
> them condoms.-=-
>
"If we have to..."
WHEN!?! 13 % of the girls at that high school are pregnant NOW. It is too
late for condoms for those, but the other 87% should have condoms galore.
"Have to"?
I have given my boys condoms a couple of times. I don't check back to see
if they still have them. When they're going camping with mixed groups, I
remind them to take them and I don't ask them if they're going to need them, I've
said "You might not need them, but someone else might." They are there for
ANYone to use, and that keeps me from having to ask my boys if they need them.
I don't "have to" give them condoms. I think it's a damned good idea,
though.
When Kirby said he didn't want them (when he was young), and kind of balked
at the gift, I said "I would hate for the first time you used a condom to be
the second time you had needed one."
When passing through WalMart or Target with my kids, I started going through
the baby aisle and pausing to note a price or two, on a car seat or stroller.
And I mentioned in friendly fashion to each kid in turn (separate trips)
that condoms are way cheaper than car seats. "The birth control aisle," it has
come to be called. <g>
I don't say the price stuff anymore, I just say "Let's go through the birth
control aisle" without further comment or pause, or I just go through there and
one of the kids will say "birth control aisle."
This is the most serious comment I have on that other article though:
-=-The Hinton
household has two loving parents with a strong relationship who asked the
straight-A
Raechel "45 times a week if she was having sex, doing drugs, drinking. We
were constantly checking on her."-=-
Asking someone 45 times in a LIFETIME is too much. Four times a week would
be too much, and they seemed to be bragging about asking her 45 times a week.
And above that, she must have lied. Did she lie to her parents 45 times a
week?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/2/2005 11:12:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
I have given my boys condoms a couple of times. I don't check back to see
if they still have them. When they're going camping with mixed groups, I
remind them to take them and I don't ask them if they're going to need them,
I've
said "You might not need them, but someone else might." They are there for
ANYone to use, and that keeps me from having to ask my boys if they need them
We have a shoe box, in the linen closet. It holds condoms, has for years,
since my older children were in high school. They know it's there, many of
the teens that have been coming to my house for years know it's there too. I
never check to see if it's empty. I just order more (_www.safesense.com_
(http://www.safesense.com) ), they send me monthly reminders. Sometimes when I
go to reach over my head to put more in the box, it won't hold all the newly
acquired box, so I put those in my room for another time and skip a month or
three or more of ordering.
No embarrassment, no lectures, no knowing looks. Just safety for them and
their friends.
Oh, and it didn't encourage wild promiscuous sex either, as my MIL was
absolutely sure it would do. I don't think anyone gives PERMISSION for their
children to have sex, and I surely don't think teenagers WAIT for PERMISSION
either.
Just thought I would share that idea as it has worked well for us for many
years. It can be important that you aren't GIVING condoms to other peoples
kids too. They are there and if the kid takes them, well they took them.
Keeps parents who go crazy about such things from holding you forever accountable
for their child have sex.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
I have given my boys condoms a couple of times. I don't check back to see
if they still have them. When they're going camping with mixed groups, I
remind them to take them and I don't ask them if they're going to need them,
I've
said "You might not need them, but someone else might." They are there for
ANYone to use, and that keeps me from having to ask my boys if they need them
We have a shoe box, in the linen closet. It holds condoms, has for years,
since my older children were in high school. They know it's there, many of
the teens that have been coming to my house for years know it's there too. I
never check to see if it's empty. I just order more (_www.safesense.com_
(http://www.safesense.com) ), they send me monthly reminders. Sometimes when I
go to reach over my head to put more in the box, it won't hold all the newly
acquired box, so I put those in my room for another time and skip a month or
three or more of ordering.
No embarrassment, no lectures, no knowing looks. Just safety for them and
their friends.
Oh, and it didn't encourage wild promiscuous sex either, as my MIL was
absolutely sure it would do. I don't think anyone gives PERMISSION for their
children to have sex, and I surely don't think teenagers WAIT for PERMISSION
either.
Just thought I would share that idea as it has worked well for us for many
years. It can be important that you aren't GIVING condoms to other peoples
kids too. They are there and if the kid takes them, well they took them.
Keeps parents who go crazy about such things from holding you forever accountable
for their child have sex.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler Waynforth
Frontline reported on a similar issue in Conyers, GA in 1996. There
were 10 cases of syphilis that occurred in teenagers in Conyers. When
the nurse asked for the sexual partners of the individuals with
syphilis they found that there were more than 200 people who had been
potentially exposed to syphilis.
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/outbreak/details.html)
The Frontline documentary was fascinating in the clear evidence that
the increased sexual activity among young, affluent, suburbanite
children was linked with very little time invested by the children's
parents. If you go down about 3/4 of the page on
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/interviews/sterk.html
there is a clear statement that parents weren't around and when they
were--a bit earlier up the page--their children didn't feel like they
could talk to them about their sexual activity. It was interesting to
see the trade-off that parents were making with both parents working
long hours (one single mom was even away overnight not infrequently)
so that they could afford the affluent neighborhood with the good
schools, but not having any time to spend with their children. And
the levels and types of sexual activity found by Claire Sterk from
Emory University were frightening and degrading and dehumanizing.
Just awful.
Schuyler
-- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
were 10 cases of syphilis that occurred in teenagers in Conyers. When
the nurse asked for the sexual partners of the individuals with
syphilis they found that there were more than 200 people who had been
potentially exposed to syphilis.
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/outbreak/details.html)
The Frontline documentary was fascinating in the clear evidence that
the increased sexual activity among young, affluent, suburbanite
children was linked with very little time invested by the children's
parents. If you go down about 3/4 of the page on
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/interviews/sterk.html
there is a clear statement that parents weren't around and when they
were--a bit earlier up the page--their children didn't feel like they
could talk to them about their sexual activity. It was interesting to
see the trade-off that parents were making with both parents working
long hours (one single mom was even away overnight not infrequently)
so that they could afford the affluent neighborhood with the good
schools, but not having any time to spend with their children. And
the levels and types of sexual activity found by Claire Sterk from
Emory University were frightening and degrading and dehumanizing.
Just awful.
Schuyler
-- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> This is part of an article on a pregnancy epidemic in Canton, Ohio.I'll
> comment in another post.them at Timken,
> ================================================
>
> Last school year, both high schools in the city's district reported 55
> pregnancies. Ninety-nine pregnancies are expected this year, most of
> where expecting students get six weeks of maternity leave.to why
>
> "This has gotten to horrible proportions. I wish I knew the answer
> it's happening," principal Kim Redmond told the city's dailynewspaper The
> Repository, which first revealed the pregnancy rate in a column lastweek. Redmond
> did not return several messages left by The Associated Press.months
>
> Joanne Hinton, whose 16-year-old daughter, Raechel Hinton, is eight
> pregnant, said she believes the school's abstinence-based sexeducation program
> isn't enough.having
>
> "It's time to take the blinders off and realize that these kids are
> sex," she said. "Obviously, abstinence is not working. If we haveto, just give
> them condoms."over the
>
>
> Abstinence-based programs have been growing nationwide at schools
> past few years. In Ohio, the Bush's administration and the state'shealth
> department have awarded $32 million in grants to Ohio agencies forabstinence
> education since 2001.daughter
>
> Hinton stresses that she doesn't condone teenage sex and that her
> doesn't fit the mold some may think pregnant teens come from: TheHinton
> household has two loving parents with a strong relationship whoasked the straight-A
> Raechel "45 times a week if she was having sex, doing drugs,drinking. We
> were constantly checking on her."delivering
>
> Raechel, who plans to return to the 10th grade at Timken after
> and completing an adoption, said many students are sexually activeand need more
> information about birth control.http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050901151609990003&_ccc=6&
>
> I saw the full article here:
>
> cid=842
> but it's probably elsewhere too.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
**who asked the
straight-A
Raechel "45 times a week if she was having sex, doing drugs, drinking. We
were constantly checking on her."-=-**
I hope they were exaggerating, but 45 times a week seems demented.
That's once every 3 or 4 hours! The only faintly logical explanation I
can think of is that they wanted to catch her soon enough after her
first experience that they could give her a morning after pill. That
would be nuts, but it's the only rationale I can think of for constantly
asking "are you having sex yet?" "what about now?" "now?" "any time soon?"
:::::: shakes head ::::::
Betsy
straight-A
Raechel "45 times a week if she was having sex, doing drugs, drinking. We
were constantly checking on her."-=-**
I hope they were exaggerating, but 45 times a week seems demented.
That's once every 3 or 4 hours! The only faintly logical explanation I
can think of is that they wanted to catch her soon enough after her
first experience that they could give her a morning after pill. That
would be nuts, but it's the only rationale I can think of for constantly
asking "are you having sex yet?" "what about now?" "now?" "any time soon?"
:::::: shakes head ::::::
Betsy
[email protected]
> -=- It can be important that you aren't GIVING condoms to other peoplesI would LOVE to have someone else complain if I had given their kid a condom.
> kids too. They are there and if the kid takes them, well they took them.
> Keeps parents who go crazy about such things from holding you forever
> accountable
> for their child have sex.-=-
>
I would back them down my driveway SO FAST AND HARD and loudly that they
would never again say a single word about anything vaguely related to that.
I wouldn't care if they were Catholic or Mormon or friggin NUNS. Even
people who don't think they need to use a condom for their entire lives should at
least have opened one to see how they work.
Anyone who's attached to the idea of their child living in ignorance just
needs to keep them far from my house.
I think it is NOT important for people not to give condoms to kids.
I think it is important for humans of any age to have access to whatever will
keep new humans from happening without being fully planned for and wanted.
Not that I want to ask, because people won't be honest and it's just a
passing curiosity, but I wonder how many of the moms (even just among unschooling
moms) who have that deep resentment of "having to do" (dishes, laundry, whatever
it is) had an early accidental pregnancy or have children whose dads are gone
under less than ideal circumstances (if there can be ideal circumstances for
a dad being gone).
In SUPREMELY selfish ways, the discussions of teenage pregnancy too often
centers on that teen, what about high school, what about the embarrassment,
expense and inconvenience to her family? Little mention is made to the child
who will be put up for adoption or raised by a frightened, ashamed teenager
whose mom is keeping up a running commentary of what she should do differently.
Poor babies.
Sandra
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
camden
Hi Sandra,
I'm new here and have been reading alot of posts waiting for the right subject & moment, well here it is.
We are a family with 9 children. One stepdaughter, 3 biological children, and 5 adopted. From an early age I have been openly honest with my kids (to the point of some of them saying "yuck") about sex, the responsibilities, & consquenses. My reasons being, my mom never discussed anything with me. When I started my period at an early age I didnt even know what it was !! All I ever learned about sex was from friends & boyfriends. Didnt even know what birth control was the first time I had sex at a very early age ( long story - low self asteem, no parental communication & a very convincing boyfriend)
Needless to say, I had my first child when I was 16. I love my kids intensely, dont get me wrong, but if I could go back & change the time table I would. Only if nothing else would change though, since I know that can't happen as all events effect others, I'm not looking for a time machine. My story worked out great- been married since 16 and still going strong. Chose to have a big family, no regrets but some young kids don't have the luck we did.
I dont necessarily have resentment at having to grown up really fast & taking on the adult responsibilities that go along with a family, but there are times I would love to have just 48 hrs to go back and be carefree. I say 48hrs because I'd need 24 to have fun and 24 to recoup !!
This all leads to the birth control issue, I think condoms should be in classrooms, in bathrooms, in coffee houses, on buses, in libraries,any public place where kids hang - they should be. I personally gave my boys whole boxes when they were 12 & 13 ( my 12yr old blew them up like balloons, guess he didnt think they's keep till he was ready :).
I have 5 adopted children, 4 of which came from parents who didnt know how to take care of them and didnt know what birth control was ( one is 1 of 8, all by the time she was 22 !!! ). Sometimes I think McDonalds should have a teen meal that comes with a condom for the kids whose parents don't want to talk to them or dont care what they do.
I took my sons daughter to a dr. for a check up & birthcontrol because her mother didnt give a sh*t about what happened. Her mom looked at it as an addition to her welfare check, not a new life her daughter would be responsible for if she got pregnant.
So I totally agree, the people who think little Johnny is going to stop in the heat of the moment because his mommy said he should wait, are nuts. Teaching abstinence(sp?), it doesnt work in most cases. But helping a young adult be informed & give him/her the right equipment to make an intelligent & informed decision - I believe thats the way to go.
Carol
I would back them down my driveway SO FAST AND HARD and loudly that they
would never again say a single word about anything vaguely related to that.
I wouldn't care if they were Catholic or Mormon or friggin NUNS. Even
people who don't think they need to use a condom for their entire lives should at
least have opened one to see how they work.
Anyone who's attached to the idea of their child living in ignorance just
needs to keep them far from my house.
I think it is NOT important for people not to give condoms to kids.
I think it is important for humans of any age to have access to whatever will
keep new humans from happening without being fully planned for and wanted.
Not that I want to ask, because people won't be honest and it's just a
passing curiosity, but I wonder how many of the moms (even just among unschooling
moms) who have that deep resentment of "having to do" (dishes, laundry, whatever
it is) had an early accidental pregnancy or have children whose dads are gone
under less than ideal circumstances (if there can be ideal circumstances for
a dad being gone).
In SUPREMELY selfish ways, the discussions of teenage pregnancy too often
centers on that teen, what about high school, what about the embarrassment,
expense and inconvenience to her family? Little mention is made to the child
who will be put up for adoption or raised by a frightened, ashamed teenager
whose mom is keeping up a running commentary of what she should do differently.
Poor babies.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://www.unschooling.info>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm new here and have been reading alot of posts waiting for the right subject & moment, well here it is.
We are a family with 9 children. One stepdaughter, 3 biological children, and 5 adopted. From an early age I have been openly honest with my kids (to the point of some of them saying "yuck") about sex, the responsibilities, & consquenses. My reasons being, my mom never discussed anything with me. When I started my period at an early age I didnt even know what it was !! All I ever learned about sex was from friends & boyfriends. Didnt even know what birth control was the first time I had sex at a very early age ( long story - low self asteem, no parental communication & a very convincing boyfriend)
Needless to say, I had my first child when I was 16. I love my kids intensely, dont get me wrong, but if I could go back & change the time table I would. Only if nothing else would change though, since I know that can't happen as all events effect others, I'm not looking for a time machine. My story worked out great- been married since 16 and still going strong. Chose to have a big family, no regrets but some young kids don't have the luck we did.
I dont necessarily have resentment at having to grown up really fast & taking on the adult responsibilities that go along with a family, but there are times I would love to have just 48 hrs to go back and be carefree. I say 48hrs because I'd need 24 to have fun and 24 to recoup !!
This all leads to the birth control issue, I think condoms should be in classrooms, in bathrooms, in coffee houses, on buses, in libraries,any public place where kids hang - they should be. I personally gave my boys whole boxes when they were 12 & 13 ( my 12yr old blew them up like balloons, guess he didnt think they's keep till he was ready :).
I have 5 adopted children, 4 of which came from parents who didnt know how to take care of them and didnt know what birth control was ( one is 1 of 8, all by the time she was 22 !!! ). Sometimes I think McDonalds should have a teen meal that comes with a condom for the kids whose parents don't want to talk to them or dont care what they do.
I took my sons daughter to a dr. for a check up & birthcontrol because her mother didnt give a sh*t about what happened. Her mom looked at it as an addition to her welfare check, not a new life her daughter would be responsible for if she got pregnant.
So I totally agree, the people who think little Johnny is going to stop in the heat of the moment because his mommy said he should wait, are nuts. Teaching abstinence(sp?), it doesnt work in most cases. But helping a young adult be informed & give him/her the right equipment to make an intelligent & informed decision - I believe thats the way to go.
Carol
>I would LOVE to have someone else complain if I had given their kid a condom.
I would back them down my driveway SO FAST AND HARD and loudly that they
would never again say a single word about anything vaguely related to that.
I wouldn't care if they were Catholic or Mormon or friggin NUNS. Even
people who don't think they need to use a condom for their entire lives should at
least have opened one to see how they work.
Anyone who's attached to the idea of their child living in ignorance just
needs to keep them far from my house.
I think it is NOT important for people not to give condoms to kids.
I think it is important for humans of any age to have access to whatever will
keep new humans from happening without being fully planned for and wanted.
Not that I want to ask, because people won't be honest and it's just a
passing curiosity, but I wonder how many of the moms (even just among unschooling
moms) who have that deep resentment of "having to do" (dishes, laundry, whatever
it is) had an early accidental pregnancy or have children whose dads are gone
under less than ideal circumstances (if there can be ideal circumstances for
a dad being gone).
In SUPREMELY selfish ways, the discussions of teenage pregnancy too often
centers on that teen, what about high school, what about the embarrassment,
expense and inconvenience to her family? Little mention is made to the child
who will be put up for adoption or raised by a frightened, ashamed teenager
whose mom is keeping up a running commentary of what she should do differently.
Poor babies.
Sandra
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://www.unschooling.info>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brandie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
LOL
My oldest children are 15 (daughter) and 13 (son) --
but until recently, I had never considered
buying/giving my children condoms. We have talked
about sex -- about using protection, but I guess I
always sadly assumed that this was something they
needed to do for themselves (to obtain the condoms).
So, in June, I witnessed a father purchasing condoms
for his teenaage son. Oddly, it really fascinated me.
I even wrote about it in my blog. It was literally
the first time it ever dawned on me to buy them for my
kids.
In regards to the parents who asked their daughter 45
times a week, I had a girlfriend in high school who's
parents were like this. They tried (what they thought
was) doing everything and anything -- very strict
curfew, she was not allowed to have a "steady"
boyfriend, when going out with a boy it had to be with
others (in a group), her mom would show up
occassionally at the places she said she was going to
check up, and sometimes she had to call her every hour
on the hour.
Needless to say, she was having sex at least once a
week, probably more, for years, and the main thing she
learned from everything her parents did was to be a
better liar. Her parents still think to this day that
she was a "good" virgin Catholic girl on her wedding
day. LOL....
I also think back to my own high school years. My
parents educated me about using birth control and told
me that they would rather I wait until I was older to
have sex, but if I did, please be safe. I had a lot
of friends, who were from religious families, who were
forbidden to have sex,
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com/2005/06/for-safe-sex.html
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
> I don't say the price stuff anymore, I just sayCool! Sandra is strewing the birth control aisle!
> "Let's go through the birth
> control aisle" without further comment or pause
LOL
My oldest children are 15 (daughter) and 13 (son) --
but until recently, I had never considered
buying/giving my children condoms. We have talked
about sex -- about using protection, but I guess I
always sadly assumed that this was something they
needed to do for themselves (to obtain the condoms).
So, in June, I witnessed a father purchasing condoms
for his teenaage son. Oddly, it really fascinated me.
I even wrote about it in my blog. It was literally
the first time it ever dawned on me to buy them for my
kids.
In regards to the parents who asked their daughter 45
times a week, I had a girlfriend in high school who's
parents were like this. They tried (what they thought
was) doing everything and anything -- very strict
curfew, she was not allowed to have a "steady"
boyfriend, when going out with a boy it had to be with
others (in a group), her mom would show up
occassionally at the places she said she was going to
check up, and sometimes she had to call her every hour
on the hour.
Needless to say, she was having sex at least once a
week, probably more, for years, and the main thing she
learned from everything her parents did was to be a
better liar. Her parents still think to this day that
she was a "good" virgin Catholic girl on her wedding
day. LOL....
I also think back to my own high school years. My
parents educated me about using birth control and told
me that they would rather I wait until I was older to
have sex, but if I did, please be safe. I had a lot
of friends, who were from religious families, who were
forbidden to have sex,
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com/2005/06/for-safe-sex.html
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Brandie
--- Brandie <scrapdiva73@...> wrote:
the baby aisle.
to add that I don't believe being overly strict, or
questioning over and over again is going to prevent
kids from having sex. But pregnancy,
STD's...etc...might be lessened if condoms were freely
available. The govenment has given 32million dollars
to Ohio for abstinence programs??? Maybe it's time to
rethink that?
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> Cool! Sandra is strewing the birth control aisle!Geez...I can't type today...I really meant strewing
> LOL
the baby aisle.
> have sex, but if I did, please be safe. I had a lotAnd I didn't finish this thought -- I was just going
> of friends, who were from religious families, who
> were
> forbidden to have sex,
to add that I don't believe being overly strict, or
questioning over and over again is going to prevent
kids from having sex. But pregnancy,
STD's...etc...might be lessened if condoms were freely
available. The govenment has given 32million dollars
to Ohio for abstinence programs??? Maybe it's time to
rethink that?
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[email protected]
"Santa" started putting condoms in Cameron's stocking when he was
13---before he was interested or even had a girlfriend.
We still buy them now so that we always have a large supply---for him
or any of his friends. His friends, whose parents refuse to even
believe their children are sexually active.
Blinders---they have blinders on! If the parents don't think about it,
it won't happen.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Brandie <scrapdiva73@...>
So, in June, I witnessed a father purchasing condoms
for his teenaage son. Oddly, it really fascinated me.
I even wrote about it in my blog. It was literally
the first time it ever dawned on me to buy them for my
kids.
13---before he was interested or even had a girlfriend.
We still buy them now so that we always have a large supply---for him
or any of his friends. His friends, whose parents refuse to even
believe their children are sexually active.
Blinders---they have blinders on! If the parents don't think about it,
it won't happen.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Brandie <scrapdiva73@...>
So, in June, I witnessed a father purchasing condoms
for his teenaage son. Oddly, it really fascinated me.
I even wrote about it in my blog. It was literally
the first time it ever dawned on me to buy them for my
kids.
David & Annelise Pierce
Sex . .. . . .
Do you think it¹s a normal part of exploration that is healthy, safe, and
natural?? Or is it a normal part of exploration that can cause emotional,
physical, and phsychological damage if the right elements are not there to
provide safety? (age, maturity, monogamy, whatever) I think of a toddler in
an open street situation. Surely we¹re not going to fall into the camp of
telling them not to go in the street and expecting them to listen. Period.
But we are going to provide ongoing contact, communication, and if necessary
respectful and honest boundaries to keep them safe, all the while explaining
why this is necessary and being open to the child¹s feedback.
I very much appreciate and understand all the points being made about how
unrealistic it is to expect teenagers to simply listen to their clueless
parents demands that they not have sex. I understand that for kids who are
having sex condoms are a blessing and should be available to the max!! But
isn¹t there a better, more well rounded approach to all this? An approach
that we, as unschoolers, are perfectly prepared for with our kids, because
the lines of communication are open and their hearts are trusting towards
us??
Shouldn¹t we be modelling, demonstrating, commenting, and otherwise strewing
the idea that sex is amazing, sex is wondrous, sex is for REAL and has real
and lasting implications for one¹s soul, heart, and body each time (even
with birth control), and sex is best when it¹s really wanted, desired, and
when both partners are truly ready??
Am I the only one that believes that monogamy truly is best for our
species?? Because I truly do believe that - - - and I won¹t shame or judge
my children for choosing otherwise, but I definitely will give them the
advantage of learning from the experiences of others before them. What they
choose to do with the information is up to them, but I am responsible to
communicate it an an open, honest and non shaming way. Otherwise, how will
they know??
annelise
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Do you think it¹s a normal part of exploration that is healthy, safe, and
natural?? Or is it a normal part of exploration that can cause emotional,
physical, and phsychological damage if the right elements are not there to
provide safety? (age, maturity, monogamy, whatever) I think of a toddler in
an open street situation. Surely we¹re not going to fall into the camp of
telling them not to go in the street and expecting them to listen. Period.
But we are going to provide ongoing contact, communication, and if necessary
respectful and honest boundaries to keep them safe, all the while explaining
why this is necessary and being open to the child¹s feedback.
I very much appreciate and understand all the points being made about how
unrealistic it is to expect teenagers to simply listen to their clueless
parents demands that they not have sex. I understand that for kids who are
having sex condoms are a blessing and should be available to the max!! But
isn¹t there a better, more well rounded approach to all this? An approach
that we, as unschoolers, are perfectly prepared for with our kids, because
the lines of communication are open and their hearts are trusting towards
us??
Shouldn¹t we be modelling, demonstrating, commenting, and otherwise strewing
the idea that sex is amazing, sex is wondrous, sex is for REAL and has real
and lasting implications for one¹s soul, heart, and body each time (even
with birth control), and sex is best when it¹s really wanted, desired, and
when both partners are truly ready??
Am I the only one that believes that monogamy truly is best for our
species?? Because I truly do believe that - - - and I won¹t shame or judge
my children for choosing otherwise, but I definitely will give them the
advantage of learning from the experiences of others before them. What they
choose to do with the information is up to them, but I am responsible to
communicate it an an open, honest and non shaming way. Otherwise, how will
they know??
annelise
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/3/2005 10:04:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ddpierce@... writes:
Shouldn¹t we be modelling, demonstrating, commenting, and otherwise strewing
the idea that sex is amazing, sex is wondrous, sex is for REAL and has real
and lasting implications for one¹s soul, heart, and body each time (even
with birth control), and sex is best when it¹s really wanted, desired, and
when both partners are truly ready??
Having condoms available is only a PART of what happens in families that
make them so. All the things you said above are also a part of the parent/child
relationship in my home.
Just because there is a box with dozens available it didn't mean for them to
go and use them with everyone they run in to in this world.
I think if all those things hadn't already been discussed openly and a part
of the family dynamic, there wouldn't have been such an openness to dispense
condoms freely.
My children make good decisions (most of the time) and I respect their right
to make them.
I have children in their twenties who have only had sex with two people,
both times in committed relationships. They've had condoms available since they
were probably 14, maybe younger. I have a 17 year old who's known about the
condom box since she was probably 10 or younger, she's thought seriously and
even came close she's said ( I didn't ask what that meant). She often
babysits for a VERY difficult 7 month old and she sees that as a distinct
possibility of sex. Especially since this baby was from a haphazard relationship and
neither parent is at all committed to this baby that is here in this world,
because of their own interests.
You can't assume that those parents who provide real life information and
safety precautions such as condoms haven't been having meaningful talks and life
experiences with their children.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ddpierce@... writes:
Shouldn¹t we be modelling, demonstrating, commenting, and otherwise strewing
the idea that sex is amazing, sex is wondrous, sex is for REAL and has real
and lasting implications for one¹s soul, heart, and body each time (even
with birth control), and sex is best when it¹s really wanted, desired, and
when both partners are truly ready??
Having condoms available is only a PART of what happens in families that
make them so. All the things you said above are also a part of the parent/child
relationship in my home.
Just because there is a box with dozens available it didn't mean for them to
go and use them with everyone they run in to in this world.
I think if all those things hadn't already been discussed openly and a part
of the family dynamic, there wouldn't have been such an openness to dispense
condoms freely.
My children make good decisions (most of the time) and I respect their right
to make them.
I have children in their twenties who have only had sex with two people,
both times in committed relationships. They've had condoms available since they
were probably 14, maybe younger. I have a 17 year old who's known about the
condom box since she was probably 10 or younger, she's thought seriously and
even came close she's said ( I didn't ask what that meant). She often
babysits for a VERY difficult 7 month old and she sees that as a distinct
possibility of sex. Especially since this baby was from a haphazard relationship and
neither parent is at all committed to this baby that is here in this world,
because of their own interests.
You can't assume that those parents who provide real life information and
safety precautions such as condoms haven't been having meaningful talks and life
experiences with their children.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/3/05 8:04:58 AM, ddpierce@... writes:
It doesn't matter what parents think it is if kids are going to do it.
If parents are honest and tell real stories about real people, kids will have
more real information to help them make decisions.
If parents voice platitudes and generalities and rules and general
boogey-scare statements, kids will tune all that out.
Parents can make kids more likely to want attention from others.
Parents can contribute to a situation in which conversation with people
outside the family can be more attractive and trusted than that at home. That's
when a boyfriend can become really persuasive, when the girl feels a lack of
acceptance and trust and love at home.
-=-
Do you think it〓s a normal part of exploration that is healthy, safe, and
natural?? Or is it a normal part of exploration that can cause emotional,
physical, and phsychological damage if the right elements are not there to
provide safety? (age, maturity, monogamy, whatever)-=-
You can't hold a fifteen year old boy's hand every time a girl is present.
-=-But we are going to provide ongoing contact, communication, and if
necessary
respectful and honest boundaries to keep them safe, all the while explaining
why this is necessary and being open to the child〓s feedback.
-=-
If people wait until the children are old enough to reproduce to start
talking about the factors to consider, it's too late then.
"If necessary respectful and honest boundaries..."
Could you give some examples?
-=-...all the while explaining why this is necessary -=-
"Necessary" is a hot button for me anymore.
When a parents says "this is necessary" or "this will keep you safe" or "we
have no choice," that might not be a trust-building moment. If chidlren
aren't as equipped to made decisions about interpersonal relationships.
We could probably all tell stories of kids whose movement and freedom of
choice were severely limited who figuredo ut how to sneak off and have sex.
Their motivation changes when they know they only have an hour or half an hour of
privacy. And the more rules there are, the more likely kids will get sneaky
and learn to "stay out of trouble" with words and acting, instead of with
honest openness and actions.
-=-I understand that for kids who are
having sex condoms are a blessing and should be available to the max!! But
isn〓t there a better, more well rounded approach to all this? An approach
that we, as unschoolers, are perfectly prepared for with our kids, because
the lines of communication are open and their hearts are trusting towards
us??-=-
Wouldn't you still give them condoms?
I have three teens. One has had sex a little, a couple of years back, and
extricated himself from the relationship because it didn't seem right and good.
The other two haven't. They have friends who have. If those friends
needed a condom, my kids would have some. I don't know what the other kids'
parents have said to them or how prepared they are. I do know that both Kirby
and Marty are good relationship counsellors, at least in the way of helping
people clarify their thoughts. Kirby was 15, I think-maybe 14), when he talked
an older friend out of a divorce, and helped coach him to making the
relationship better. That seemed good evidence to me that Kirby had carefully
considered all kinds of factors, not just sex, not just "having a relationship" in
that teen "going out" way.
Maybe my kids have interpersonal skills naturally (a la Howard Gardner's
interpersonal intelligence) and that would make it easier to talk to them about
such things, and easier for them to pick up other clues from all around them.
Would kids with less natural talent for interpersonal factors need more
rules? Maybe.
-=--=-Shouldn〓t we be modelling, demonstrating, commenting, and otherwise
strewing
the idea that sex is amazing, sex is wondrous, sex is for REAL and has real
and lasting implications for one〓s soul, heart, and body each time (even
with birth control), and sex is best when it〓s really wanted, desired, and
when both partners are truly ready??-=-
-=-
I'm not modelling and demonstrating my sex life to my kids. They might
think differently (and might wish they knew less than they know <g>) but open,
regular discussion of sexuality as it arises in everyday life seems great to me,
and we've always had that here.
Holly and I discussed bisexuality last week, and specifically the prejudices
both within and without "the gay community" about the idea that someone could
be "only partly gay" or "completely gay." Prejudices are changing. There
have been a couple of teenaged girls of their acquaintance who have both "a
girlfriend" and a boyfriend. Some are having sex, others might not be. We
talked about the Chinese yin/yang take on relationships, and how that ties in
with Freud's take on what "caused" homosexuality in men. Freud wasn't
considering it a genetic reality, just an aberration. Combining what Freud observed
with what the Chinese believe (that a good couple needs a balance of male and
female energy, so the more feminine the female, the more masculine the male;
the more masculine the female, the more feminine the male, to have the ideal
balance) and taking genetics into consideration, maybe Freud was onto something,
with a passive father and dominant mother, but what he was missing was that
the passive father may himself have had "homosexual tendencies" and that could
pass down. Its rough theory, not full-polished FACT, but it was worth
discussing with Holly and she will for the rest of her life be ready to "connect the
dots" to every situation she comes across.
Another day she had a fever blister and we discussed herpes virus, and what
used to be believed, and what the current ideas are, and that things will
probably change. I told her that in the 80's there were dating networks, formal
and informal, by which people with herpes found people who also had herpes to
go out with. Knowledge will change again about what it is and how to treat
it. Many things are not known.
If I were to *TELL* Holly things about "alternative sexuality" or herpes and
tell her as though I knew the final and factual answer, I don't think that
would be helpful. If I were to take a stance that was non-accepting,
closed-minded and judgmental, that would be about the same as to say "Starting now, just
ignore me." It wouldn't help her make decisions in the future, or to keep
an eye out for new research.
-=-Am I the only one that believes that monogamy truly is best for our
species?? Because I truly do believe that - - - and I won〓t shame or judge
my children for choosing otherwise, but I definitely will give them the
advantage of learning from the experiences of others before them.-=-
I'm sure you're not.
If you really believe it, and "TRULY" then how could you *not* judge your
children for choosing otherwise?
-=- . . . but I definitely will give them the
advantage of learning from the experiences of others before them.-=-
You can tell them stories of the experiences of others, but you cant give
them the learning, can you? Their learning will depend in part on how they
judge your motivations.
-=-I am responsible to communicate it an an open, honest and non shaming
way. Otherwise, how will
they know??-=-
I'm guessing you don't have teens. Talk to them now, though, and all along,
as things come up. And don't make them come to you to ask for condoms,
because they probably won't.
A parent is never the sole source of informaton for a child.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Some of both.
> -=-Do you think it〓s a normal part of exploration that is healthy, safe, and
> natural?? Or is it a normal part of exploration that can cause emotional,
> physical, and phsychological damage if the right elements are not there to
> provide safety? (age, maturity, monogamy, whatever)-=-
>
It doesn't matter what parents think it is if kids are going to do it.
If parents are honest and tell real stories about real people, kids will have
more real information to help them make decisions.
If parents voice platitudes and generalities and rules and general
boogey-scare statements, kids will tune all that out.
Parents can make kids more likely to want attention from others.
Parents can contribute to a situation in which conversation with people
outside the family can be more attractive and trusted than that at home. That's
when a boyfriend can become really persuasive, when the girl feels a lack of
acceptance and trust and love at home.
-=-
Do you think it〓s a normal part of exploration that is healthy, safe, and
natural?? Or is it a normal part of exploration that can cause emotional,
physical, and phsychological damage if the right elements are not there to
provide safety? (age, maturity, monogamy, whatever)-=-
You can't hold a fifteen year old boy's hand every time a girl is present.
-=-But we are going to provide ongoing contact, communication, and if
necessary
respectful and honest boundaries to keep them safe, all the while explaining
why this is necessary and being open to the child〓s feedback.
-=-
If people wait until the children are old enough to reproduce to start
talking about the factors to consider, it's too late then.
"If necessary respectful and honest boundaries..."
Could you give some examples?
-=-...all the while explaining why this is necessary -=-
"Necessary" is a hot button for me anymore.
When a parents says "this is necessary" or "this will keep you safe" or "we
have no choice," that might not be a trust-building moment. If chidlren
aren't as equipped to made decisions about interpersonal relationships.
We could probably all tell stories of kids whose movement and freedom of
choice were severely limited who figuredo ut how to sneak off and have sex.
Their motivation changes when they know they only have an hour or half an hour of
privacy. And the more rules there are, the more likely kids will get sneaky
and learn to "stay out of trouble" with words and acting, instead of with
honest openness and actions.
-=-I understand that for kids who are
having sex condoms are a blessing and should be available to the max!! But
isn〓t there a better, more well rounded approach to all this? An approach
that we, as unschoolers, are perfectly prepared for with our kids, because
the lines of communication are open and their hearts are trusting towards
us??-=-
Wouldn't you still give them condoms?
I have three teens. One has had sex a little, a couple of years back, and
extricated himself from the relationship because it didn't seem right and good.
The other two haven't. They have friends who have. If those friends
needed a condom, my kids would have some. I don't know what the other kids'
parents have said to them or how prepared they are. I do know that both Kirby
and Marty are good relationship counsellors, at least in the way of helping
people clarify their thoughts. Kirby was 15, I think-maybe 14), when he talked
an older friend out of a divorce, and helped coach him to making the
relationship better. That seemed good evidence to me that Kirby had carefully
considered all kinds of factors, not just sex, not just "having a relationship" in
that teen "going out" way.
Maybe my kids have interpersonal skills naturally (a la Howard Gardner's
interpersonal intelligence) and that would make it easier to talk to them about
such things, and easier for them to pick up other clues from all around them.
Would kids with less natural talent for interpersonal factors need more
rules? Maybe.
-=--=-Shouldn〓t we be modelling, demonstrating, commenting, and otherwise
strewing
the idea that sex is amazing, sex is wondrous, sex is for REAL and has real
and lasting implications for one〓s soul, heart, and body each time (even
with birth control), and sex is best when it〓s really wanted, desired, and
when both partners are truly ready??-=-
-=-
I'm not modelling and demonstrating my sex life to my kids. They might
think differently (and might wish they knew less than they know <g>) but open,
regular discussion of sexuality as it arises in everyday life seems great to me,
and we've always had that here.
Holly and I discussed bisexuality last week, and specifically the prejudices
both within and without "the gay community" about the idea that someone could
be "only partly gay" or "completely gay." Prejudices are changing. There
have been a couple of teenaged girls of their acquaintance who have both "a
girlfriend" and a boyfriend. Some are having sex, others might not be. We
talked about the Chinese yin/yang take on relationships, and how that ties in
with Freud's take on what "caused" homosexuality in men. Freud wasn't
considering it a genetic reality, just an aberration. Combining what Freud observed
with what the Chinese believe (that a good couple needs a balance of male and
female energy, so the more feminine the female, the more masculine the male;
the more masculine the female, the more feminine the male, to have the ideal
balance) and taking genetics into consideration, maybe Freud was onto something,
with a passive father and dominant mother, but what he was missing was that
the passive father may himself have had "homosexual tendencies" and that could
pass down. Its rough theory, not full-polished FACT, but it was worth
discussing with Holly and she will for the rest of her life be ready to "connect the
dots" to every situation she comes across.
Another day she had a fever blister and we discussed herpes virus, and what
used to be believed, and what the current ideas are, and that things will
probably change. I told her that in the 80's there were dating networks, formal
and informal, by which people with herpes found people who also had herpes to
go out with. Knowledge will change again about what it is and how to treat
it. Many things are not known.
If I were to *TELL* Holly things about "alternative sexuality" or herpes and
tell her as though I knew the final and factual answer, I don't think that
would be helpful. If I were to take a stance that was non-accepting,
closed-minded and judgmental, that would be about the same as to say "Starting now, just
ignore me." It wouldn't help her make decisions in the future, or to keep
an eye out for new research.
-=-Am I the only one that believes that monogamy truly is best for our
species?? Because I truly do believe that - - - and I won〓t shame or judge
my children for choosing otherwise, but I definitely will give them the
advantage of learning from the experiences of others before them.-=-
I'm sure you're not.
If you really believe it, and "TRULY" then how could you *not* judge your
children for choosing otherwise?
-=- . . . but I definitely will give them the
advantage of learning from the experiences of others before them.-=-
You can tell them stories of the experiences of others, but you cant give
them the learning, can you? Their learning will depend in part on how they
judge your motivations.
-=-I am responsible to communicate it an an open, honest and non shaming
way. Otherwise, how will
they know??-=-
I'm guessing you don't have teens. Talk to them now, though, and all along,
as things come up. And don't make them come to you to ask for condoms,
because they probably won't.
A parent is never the sole source of informaton for a child.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** Their motivation changes when they know they only have an hour or
half an hour of
privacy.**
This really rings true to me, since in my life I'm chaperoned a lot by
having a child who is nearly always here. So in my circumstances my
thinking regarding my husband is "I don't care if you're in the mood, I
don't care if I'm in the mood, our kid went to bed early, this is the
first chance we've had in days, must have sex now!" <ggg>
So I imagine teenagers can be similarly motivated.
(maybe I won't sign this one!)
half an hour of
privacy.**
This really rings true to me, since in my life I'm chaperoned a lot by
having a child who is nearly always here. So in my circumstances my
thinking regarding my husband is "I don't care if you're in the mood, I
don't care if I'm in the mood, our kid went to bed early, this is the
first chance we've had in days, must have sex now!" <ggg>
So I imagine teenagers can be similarly motivated.
(maybe I won't sign this one!)
Kim J. Flowers
At what age do you feel it is appropriate to have open and detailed
discussions? I had a conversation with my 8 year old about a woman's
reproductive cycle and how it takes sperm and an egg to make a baby and all
this stemmed out of a question he asked me about birth control pills. BUT,
he never asked me how the sperm gets to the egg. When is it appropriate to
devulge such information? What if he never actually asks that specific
question? Do I bring it up? I want to talk to my kids openly about this,
but am not sure when the right time is. I am not sure if I should wait
until he asks, or bring it up casually. What have you guys done?
Kim Flowers - Wife to Nolan for 9 years
Stay at Home Mama of 4 wonderful boys
"The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you've started."
So, today I have finished a bottle of vodka, A bottle of red wine, a bottle
of Jack Daniel's, my Prozac, a small box of chocolates and a quart of Rocky
Road. You have no idea how good I feel."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
discussions? I had a conversation with my 8 year old about a woman's
reproductive cycle and how it takes sperm and an egg to make a baby and all
this stemmed out of a question he asked me about birth control pills. BUT,
he never asked me how the sperm gets to the egg. When is it appropriate to
devulge such information? What if he never actually asks that specific
question? Do I bring it up? I want to talk to my kids openly about this,
but am not sure when the right time is. I am not sure if I should wait
until he asks, or bring it up casually. What have you guys done?
Kim Flowers - Wife to Nolan for 9 years
Stay at Home Mama of 4 wonderful boys
"The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you've started."
So, today I have finished a bottle of vodka, A bottle of red wine, a bottle
of Jack Daniel's, my Prozac, a small box of chocolates and a quart of Rocky
Road. You have no idea how good I feel."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** I'm not modelling and demonstrating my sex life to my kids.**
True.
I would estimate that more than half of the parents on this list are
currently married and monogomous. That's one way of modeling the idea
that monogamy is a desirable way of life. (Esp. if one is happy and the
kids see that. Modeling unhappy monogamy isn't such a good sales pitch.)
The whole question of lifetime monogamy, and not dating or having sex
before marriage has become a lot less common in our culture.
I'd be quite happy if my late blooming kid waited until he was 20 to
have sex, but I'm not going to bet on that. (I'd be happy if he didn't
drive until he was 18 also!) But I'm personally not going to expect him
to wait until marriage to have sex. (I don't think that my wishes really
have that powerful an effect on his behavior, truthfully.)
My mom got married in the 50s at age 20 because she didn't feel she had
any other safe way to be sexually active. She had two kids and then she
got divorced. This was hard on everyone. Perhaps if she had had the
chance to put more time into looking for a "perfect mate" and had the
chance to mature more before marriage the outcome would have been
better. At least I think it might have been.
Betsy
True.
I would estimate that more than half of the parents on this list are
currently married and monogomous. That's one way of modeling the idea
that monogamy is a desirable way of life. (Esp. if one is happy and the
kids see that. Modeling unhappy monogamy isn't such a good sales pitch.)
The whole question of lifetime monogamy, and not dating or having sex
before marriage has become a lot less common in our culture.
I'd be quite happy if my late blooming kid waited until he was 20 to
have sex, but I'm not going to bet on that. (I'd be happy if he didn't
drive until he was 18 also!) But I'm personally not going to expect him
to wait until marriage to have sex. (I don't think that my wishes really
have that powerful an effect on his behavior, truthfully.)
My mom got married in the 50s at age 20 because she didn't feel she had
any other safe way to be sexually active. She had two kids and then she
got divorced. This was hard on everyone. Perhaps if she had had the
chance to put more time into looking for a "perfect mate" and had the
chance to mature more before marriage the outcome would have been
better. At least I think it might have been.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/3/05 2:29:58 PM, ecsamhill@... writes:
never lived together and divorced almost as soon as he returned, because though
she had written him letters about having rented a house and bought furniture
(with his paychecks, which went to her as his wife) she hadn't done any of that.
He married my mom to have sex. They were together 22 years.
He married another woman, to have sex. After that ended in the loss of much
money and the loss of good relationships with me and my sister, during which
time we were having sex without marriage with people who were NOT using us and
being verbally abusive as that short-term "step mother" was, my dad, at the
age of 50-something, decided maybe sex outside of marriage was not as bad as
marriage-just-to-have-sex.
Those are not the only two choices, I know.
His own life had too many examples of a bad use of marriage.
Next he married someone my age, but at least they had had sex for a while
first, and they made a reasonable trade: he adopted her children and she took
care of him while he was ill, and collected benefits from insurance and social
security for some years.
Advice to wait should be balanced with advice not to make a "lifetime
commitment" just for the sake of a roll in the sack.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>My dad married before shipping out in WWII, so he could have sex. They
> My mom got married in the 50s at age 20 because she didn't feel she had
> any other safe way to be sexually active.
>
never lived together and divorced almost as soon as he returned, because though
she had written him letters about having rented a house and bought furniture
(with his paychecks, which went to her as his wife) she hadn't done any of that.
He married my mom to have sex. They were together 22 years.
He married another woman, to have sex. After that ended in the loss of much
money and the loss of good relationships with me and my sister, during which
time we were having sex without marriage with people who were NOT using us and
being verbally abusive as that short-term "step mother" was, my dad, at the
age of 50-something, decided maybe sex outside of marriage was not as bad as
marriage-just-to-have-sex.
Those are not the only two choices, I know.
His own life had too many examples of a bad use of marriage.
Next he married someone my age, but at least they had had sex for a while
first, and they made a reasonable trade: he adopted her children and she took
care of him while he was ill, and collected benefits from insurance and social
security for some years.
Advice to wait should be balanced with advice not to make a "lifetime
commitment" just for the sake of a roll in the sack.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
camden
Hi Kim,
Our ideas are to answer any questions as they come up. They ask a question, we answer, & if they are satisfied thats usually the end of it, for then, its up to them. I think when they are ready they will ask for more details. I believe if they are old enough to ask about specifics they're old enough to hear it.
I've always said my grandmother would roll over in her grave if she could hear some of the conversations we have at the dinner table. The "S.E.X" word was not openly discussed in her house or my mom's.
Some day out of the blue he'll probally ask you to elaborate, hopefully not in Kmart in front of a 80 yr old woman who almost fainted when one of my kids brought up sex in the checkout line ( he was reading the cover of one of those National Star mags about an alien having sex). She just kept saying "Oh my......... Oh my goodness".
Carol
***********************************
At what age do you feel it is appropriate to have open and detailed
discussions? I had a conversation with my 8 year old about a woman's
reproductive cycle and how it takes sperm and an egg to make a baby and all
this stemmed out of a question he asked me about birth control pills. BUT,
he never asked me how the sperm gets to the egg. When is it appropriate to
devulge such information? What if he never actually asks that specific
question? Do I bring it up? I want to talk to my kids openly about this,
but am not sure when the right time is. I am not sure if I should wait
until he asks, or bring it up casually. What have you guys done?
Kim Flowers - Wife to Nolan for 9 years
Stay at Home Mama of 4 wonderful boys
"The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you've started."
So, today I have finished a bottle of vodka, A bottle of red wine, a bottle
of Jack Daniel's, my Prozac, a small box of chocolates and a quart of Rocky
Road. You have no idea how good I feel."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Our ideas are to answer any questions as they come up. They ask a question, we answer, & if they are satisfied thats usually the end of it, for then, its up to them. I think when they are ready they will ask for more details. I believe if they are old enough to ask about specifics they're old enough to hear it.
I've always said my grandmother would roll over in her grave if she could hear some of the conversations we have at the dinner table. The "S.E.X" word was not openly discussed in her house or my mom's.
Some day out of the blue he'll probally ask you to elaborate, hopefully not in Kmart in front of a 80 yr old woman who almost fainted when one of my kids brought up sex in the checkout line ( he was reading the cover of one of those National Star mags about an alien having sex). She just kept saying "Oh my......... Oh my goodness".
Carol
***********************************
At what age do you feel it is appropriate to have open and detailed
discussions? I had a conversation with my 8 year old about a woman's
reproductive cycle and how it takes sperm and an egg to make a baby and all
this stemmed out of a question he asked me about birth control pills. BUT,
he never asked me how the sperm gets to the egg. When is it appropriate to
devulge such information? What if he never actually asks that specific
question? Do I bring it up? I want to talk to my kids openly about this,
but am not sure when the right time is. I am not sure if I should wait
until he asks, or bring it up casually. What have you guys done?
Kim Flowers - Wife to Nolan for 9 years
Stay at Home Mama of 4 wonderful boys
"The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you've started."
So, today I have finished a bottle of vodka, A bottle of red wine, a bottle
of Jack Daniel's, my Prozac, a small box of chocolates and a quart of Rocky
Road. You have no idea how good I feel."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://www.unschooling.info>
SPONSORED LINKS Secondary school education Graduate school education Home school education
Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school education
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brandie
--- "Kim J. Flowers" <kim@...>
wrote:
close family, who talked to each other all the time,
about everything. For us, sex ed type discussions
would come up from time to time -- the opportunity
would present itself -- and we would talk about
whatever it was.
For example, when I was pregnant with our last child,
our older two were 8 and 11...we had LOTS of
discusssions about how someone gets pregnant, about
giving birth, about breasts and breastfeeding, etc.
When watching a movie, or upon hearing about a
situation with an extended family member, one of the
kids might have a question. They might see a
commercial about a new birth control pill and the
question is "mom, how does that stop a women from
getting pregnant?" Upon finding out that some
friends/family members are gay, we've had discussions
about homosexuality, Aids (we/they know aids is NOT a
gay disease, it came up and we talked about it), and
artificial insemination. I think we've talked about
almost everything! Heck, we went to see "The
40-year-old Virgin" with our teens (we all loved it),
and a even a few discusssions came up from that.
So, what I'm saying, in our house, we talk so much
with each other, and our kids feel so comfortable
asking us any question, that we have never had to
literally have a sit-down "birds & the bees" type
talk. We didn't have to pick an age. We didn't have
to decide that today is the day!
And, I just have to add: just because one of the kids
have a question about something, it doesn't mean that
it's a long, drawn out talk. I really try to keep it
informal and follow their lead.
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
wrote:
> I am notEven before we were unschoolers, we have been a very
> sure if I should wait
> until he asks, or bring it up casually. What have
> you guys done?
close family, who talked to each other all the time,
about everything. For us, sex ed type discussions
would come up from time to time -- the opportunity
would present itself -- and we would talk about
whatever it was.
For example, when I was pregnant with our last child,
our older two were 8 and 11...we had LOTS of
discusssions about how someone gets pregnant, about
giving birth, about breasts and breastfeeding, etc.
When watching a movie, or upon hearing about a
situation with an extended family member, one of the
kids might have a question. They might see a
commercial about a new birth control pill and the
question is "mom, how does that stop a women from
getting pregnant?" Upon finding out that some
friends/family members are gay, we've had discussions
about homosexuality, Aids (we/they know aids is NOT a
gay disease, it came up and we talked about it), and
artificial insemination. I think we've talked about
almost everything! Heck, we went to see "The
40-year-old Virgin" with our teens (we all loved it),
and a even a few discusssions came up from that.
So, what I'm saying, in our house, we talk so much
with each other, and our kids feel so comfortable
asking us any question, that we have never had to
literally have a sit-down "birds & the bees" type
talk. We didn't have to pick an age. We didn't have
to decide that today is the day!
And, I just have to add: just because one of the kids
have a question about something, it doesn't mean that
it's a long, drawn out talk. I really try to keep it
informal and follow their lead.
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
David & Annelise Pierce
> rubyprincess said:As Sandra suspected in her response to me, I do not have teens!! But
>
> ³You can't assume that those parents who provide real life information and
> safety precautions such as condoms haven't been having meaningful talks and
> life
> experiences with their children.²
>
>
> I guess I didn¹t assume that in a vacuum, but more from the specific
> information that seemed to be posted I believe the original post was about
> birth control being available, and so all the responses talked about birth
> control being available. . . . And didn¹t necessarily make any mention of the
> big picture surrounding that availability.
>
> I posted because I wanted to make sure the picture somehow would get rounded
> out, not so much in the homes of all of you who have been posting, as much as
> for all of the others of us out here!! I think you all would agree that
> giving condoms without the real life information, meaningful talks, and shared
> life experiences errs on the side of negligence, as does not being willing to
> provide the condoms at all.
>
I very much appreciate reading the experiences of those who do . . . .
Annelise
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/3/05 4:00:14 PM, kim@... writes:
signs of puberty, I got a book (one for Kirby and another for Marty later)
about puberty, and body changes, and reproduction.
Even if a kid asks how the sperm gets to the egg, that might not be the time
to talk about TOO much detail. If you give a brief answer and wait to see if
he asks more, or if he seems satisfied for the moment, that seems best.
Same as with math or spelling or geography. <g> Don't assume that one question
is the ONLY question, and don't treat one question as an invitation to a
half-hour-long diatribe. Let it be a conversation rather than a lesson.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am not sure if I should waitIf he hasn't asked, I wouldn't bring it up. When my boys started having the
> until he asks, or bring it up casually. What have you guys done?
>
signs of puberty, I got a book (one for Kirby and another for Marty later)
about puberty, and body changes, and reproduction.
Even if a kid asks how the sperm gets to the egg, that might not be the time
to talk about TOO much detail. If you give a brief answer and wait to see if
he asks more, or if he seems satisfied for the moment, that seems best.
Same as with math or spelling or geography. <g> Don't assume that one question
is the ONLY question, and don't treat one question as an invitation to a
half-hour-long diatribe. Let it be a conversation rather than a lesson.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Diana Tashjian
Well, for me I tried to treat this like any other area of information
in our unschooling lives. I use all kinds of moments to impart
information that I think my kid would like to/need to know - and
doesn't necessarily know to ask. I remember asking my dad, after I had
watched a movie at school about how the sperm fertilizes the egg, how
the sperm got into the woman to do that. I don't remember what he
answered but it was at school that another kid told me about how it
happens. I was in shock! I decided, as a mom, that this fact was not
going to be a big surprise to my kid and I would use a "moment" very
early on to impart this information. I don't really understand why it
shouldn't be something that a kid knows forever... I bet farm kids do
:o)
But to each his own :o)
Diana Tashjian
in our unschooling lives. I use all kinds of moments to impart
information that I think my kid would like to/need to know - and
doesn't necessarily know to ask. I remember asking my dad, after I had
watched a movie at school about how the sperm fertilizes the egg, how
the sperm got into the woman to do that. I don't remember what he
answered but it was at school that another kid told me about how it
happens. I was in shock! I decided, as a mom, that this fact was not
going to be a big surprise to my kid and I would use a "moment" very
early on to impart this information. I don't really understand why it
shouldn't be something that a kid knows forever... I bet farm kids do
:o)
But to each his own :o)
Diana Tashjian
----- Original Message -----
<snip>
> I am not sure if I should wait until he asks, or bring it up
> casually. What have you guys done?
<snip>
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/3/05 7:07:12 PM, ccoutlaw@... writes:
sex-education issue. Because prior generations couldn't talk about it, the
ignorance was bigger than the knowledge and VERY many people were made unhappy
by that.
It might help to rent Kinsey--not to press the kids to watch it, but for the
moms to watch it, and it might spark a conversation or two whether the kids
pass through or not. For us, it was about how *very* unacceptable masturbation
was in the early 20th century, and still is in some families.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Some day out of the blue he'll probally ask you to elaborate, hopefully notThat's funny, but it's also an important piece of information in the larger
> in Kmart in front of a 80 yr old woman who almost fainted when one of my
> kids brought up sex in the checkout line ( he was reading the cover of one of
> those National Star mags about an alien having sex). She just kept saying "Oh
> my......... Oh my goodness".
>
sex-education issue. Because prior generations couldn't talk about it, the
ignorance was bigger than the knowledge and VERY many people were made unhappy
by that.
It might help to rent Kinsey--not to press the kids to watch it, but for the
moms to watch it, and it might spark a conversation or two whether the kids
pass through or not. For us, it was about how *very* unacceptable masturbation
was in the early 20th century, and still is in some families.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/3/05 7:08:26 PM, ddpierce@... writes:
My second choice would be condoms, and the kids can get information out and
about.
Third choice... off the list entirely, is that apparently was happening in
that Ohio town--no condoms, crap information.
-=-> I guess I didn〓t assume that in a vacuum, but more from the specific
The commentary was about the article, and specifically about the quote, which
was NOT from an unschooler, but was from the mother of a pregnant 15 year
old, who said "If we have to, we should give them condoms" or some such. To
which I was saying "Give them condoms BEFORE you think you "have to."
It wasn't a big picture. It was commentary on a specific
internationally-quoted piece of ignorance.
-=-> I posted because I wanted to make sure the picture somehow would get
rounded
the girls at the school were pregnant, all at once! That has to mean some
have already had babies and others just aren't pregnant yet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 〓You can't assume that those parents who provide real life informationMy first choice would be great information and condoms.
> and
> > safety precautions such as condoms haven't been having meaningful talks
> and
> > life
> > experiences with their children.〓
>
My second choice would be condoms, and the kids can get information out and
about.
Third choice... off the list entirely, is that apparently was happening in
that Ohio town--no condoms, crap information.
-=-> I guess I didn〓t assume that in a vacuum, but more from the specific
> information that seemed to be posted ‐ I believe the original post wasabout
> birth control being available, and so all the responses talked about birththe
> control being available. . . . And didn〓t necessarily make any mention of
> big picture surrounding that availability.-=-Did you read the article that was linked?
The commentary was about the article, and specifically about the quote, which
was NOT from an unschooler, but was from the mother of a pregnant 15 year
old, who said "If we have to, we should give them condoms" or some such. To
which I was saying "Give them condoms BEFORE you think you "have to."
It wasn't a big picture. It was commentary on a specific
internationally-quoted piece of ignorance.
-=-> I posted because I wanted to make sure the picture somehow would get
rounded
> out, not so much in the homes of all of you who have been posting, as muchas
> for all of the others of us out here!! I think you all would agree thatshared
> giving condoms without the real life information, meaningful talks, and
> life experiences errs on the side of negligence, as does not being willingto
> provide the condoms at all.-=-Part of those kids' problem was school itself, undoubtedly. 13 percent of
the girls at the school were pregnant, all at once! That has to mean some
have already had babies and others just aren't pregnant yet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
averyschmidt
For us, it was about how *very* unacceptable masturbation
husband what "masturbation" meant they told him that it was when you
have to go to the bathroom but it won't come out. They didn't feel he
was ready to know what it really meant. I was dumbstruck.
Patti
> was in the early 20th century, and still is in some families.Someone I know just told me that when her 10yo asked she and her
husband what "masturbation" meant they told him that it was when you
have to go to the bathroom but it won't come out. They didn't feel he
was ready to know what it really meant. I was dumbstruck.
Patti
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/4/05 12:30:16 PM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:
I hope their stuff stops coming out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Someone I know just told me that when her 10yo asked she and herTHAT IS CRIMINAL.
> husband what "masturbation" meant they told him that it was when you
> have to go to the bathroom but it won't come out.
>
I hope their stuff stops coming out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/5/2005 7:15:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
For us, it was about how *very* unacceptable masturbation
was in the early 20th century, and still is in some families.
***************************
Joycelyn Elders got fired by President Clinton for talking about
masturbation. I'm attaching this essay she wrote because the link no longer works.
The Dreaded M Word It's Not A Four-Letter Word
By M. Joycelyn Elders, M.D. former Surgeon General of the U.S.
Distributed under Fair use provision of US Copyright laws
From: _http://nerve.com/Dispatches/Elders/mword/_
(http://nerve.com/Dispatches/Elders/mword/)
Masturbation: it's not a four-letter word, but the president fired me for
saying it.
In this so-called "communications age," it remains a sexual taboo of
monumental proportions to discuss the safe and universal sexual practice of
self-pleasure. No doubt, future generations will be amused at our peculiar taboo,
laughing in sociology classes at our backwardness, yet also puzzled by it given
our high rates of disease and premature pregnancy. We will look foolish in
the light of history.
Over the months since I left Washington and settled into my home in Little
Rock, I have pondered the rage, embarrassment and shock with which the word
"masturbation" is met in our culture. What other word, merely voiced, can
provide justification to fire a surgeon general -- or anyone?
What horrible betrayal of our proud race does masturbation conjure in our
minds? As a physician, and as the nation's physician, it was important to
answer every question posed to me with clear information.
Informed decisions require knowledge. To insure the health and well-being of
a patient, age-appropriate information must be made available. Some call it
candor -- I call it common sense and good medicine. On the other hand,
coquetries can be more than deceptive: both the refrain from self-gratification and
the concealment of it can result in sexual dysfunction.
Yet to study masturbation would be to admit its role in our lives -- one
that many of us are not comfortable with. Instead, we discourage the practice in
our children, dispensing cautionary tales that read like Steven King
novellas. These myths were more understandable before Pasteur enlightened the world
to the presence of germs in the 1870s; prior to his discovery, no one really
knew where diseases came from. Masturbation was blamed for dreaded conditions
like syphilis and gonorrhea, as well as for their ramifications: dementia,
blindness and infertility, to name a few. It's remarkable that some of these
rumors still circulate despite clear evidence that they are unfounded.
The wall of myth surrounding self-sex is just beginning to crack -- thanks,
in part, to President Clinton who put it in the news. For the first time the
topic is being broached on popular television shows, and comedians are able to
joke about it without alienating their audiences. You can even find a
variety of "how-to" books in the "sex and health" section of most bookstores. The
overwhelming majority of psychologists and medical professionals seem to
believe that sex-for-one is a natural part of living; we all touch our hair,
necks, knees and many other spots on our bodies in public to calm ourselves or to
scratch itches, and it is no less acceptable, they assure us, to touch other
body parts in private.
A friend, a senior citizen, stopped me after church one Sunday and said,
"Please tell the children that masturbation won't hurt them. I spent my entire
youth in agony waiting to go blind, because my parents told me that's what
would happen if I masturbated. I guess I could have stopped, but going blind
seemed the better option."
We all want to tell our children the truth about their bodies and sex, but
many of us are afraid of the consequences. Parents need to let go of the idea
that ignorance maintains innocence and begin teaching age-appropriate facts to
children. Informed children know what sexual abuse and harassment are, what
normal physical closeness with others is, what should be reported, and to
whom. Rather than tell children that touching themselves is forbidden, parents
may gently explain that this is best done in private.
One enlightened friend shared with me the story of how she taught her
pre-school-aged daughter about her anatomy: The mother told the girl about her
vagina as they examined theirs together with mirrors. There was some discussion
and admiration. Later that day, friends came to dinner at their home, and at
the dinner table the father asked his daughter what she had done during the
day. Of course, she told him the most interesting thing that had happened: she
and Mommy looked at their vaginas. But hers was prettier than her mommy's --
"Want to see?" The stunned dinner guests were silent as the mother quickly
retreated with her daughter to explain privacy. It is never okay to shame
children for natural inquisitiveness or behavior: that shame lasts forever.
Masturbation, practiced consciously or unconsciously, cultivates in us a
humble elegance -- an awareness that we are part of a larger natural system, the
passions and rhythms of which live on in us. Sexuality is part of creation,
part of our common inheritance, and it reminds us that we are neither
inherently better nor worse than our sisters and brothers. Far from evil,
masturbation just may render heavenly contentment in those who dare.
©1997 M. Joycelyn Elders, M.D. and Nerve Publishing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
For us, it was about how *very* unacceptable masturbation
was in the early 20th century, and still is in some families.
***************************
Joycelyn Elders got fired by President Clinton for talking about
masturbation. I'm attaching this essay she wrote because the link no longer works.
The Dreaded M Word It's Not A Four-Letter Word
By M. Joycelyn Elders, M.D. former Surgeon General of the U.S.
Distributed under Fair use provision of US Copyright laws
From: _http://nerve.com/Dispatches/Elders/mword/_
(http://nerve.com/Dispatches/Elders/mword/)
Masturbation: it's not a four-letter word, but the president fired me for
saying it.
In this so-called "communications age," it remains a sexual taboo of
monumental proportions to discuss the safe and universal sexual practice of
self-pleasure. No doubt, future generations will be amused at our peculiar taboo,
laughing in sociology classes at our backwardness, yet also puzzled by it given
our high rates of disease and premature pregnancy. We will look foolish in
the light of history.
Over the months since I left Washington and settled into my home in Little
Rock, I have pondered the rage, embarrassment and shock with which the word
"masturbation" is met in our culture. What other word, merely voiced, can
provide justification to fire a surgeon general -- or anyone?
What horrible betrayal of our proud race does masturbation conjure in our
minds? As a physician, and as the nation's physician, it was important to
answer every question posed to me with clear information.
Informed decisions require knowledge. To insure the health and well-being of
a patient, age-appropriate information must be made available. Some call it
candor -- I call it common sense and good medicine. On the other hand,
coquetries can be more than deceptive: both the refrain from self-gratification and
the concealment of it can result in sexual dysfunction.
Yet to study masturbation would be to admit its role in our lives -- one
that many of us are not comfortable with. Instead, we discourage the practice in
our children, dispensing cautionary tales that read like Steven King
novellas. These myths were more understandable before Pasteur enlightened the world
to the presence of germs in the 1870s; prior to his discovery, no one really
knew where diseases came from. Masturbation was blamed for dreaded conditions
like syphilis and gonorrhea, as well as for their ramifications: dementia,
blindness and infertility, to name a few. It's remarkable that some of these
rumors still circulate despite clear evidence that they are unfounded.
The wall of myth surrounding self-sex is just beginning to crack -- thanks,
in part, to President Clinton who put it in the news. For the first time the
topic is being broached on popular television shows, and comedians are able to
joke about it without alienating their audiences. You can even find a
variety of "how-to" books in the "sex and health" section of most bookstores. The
overwhelming majority of psychologists and medical professionals seem to
believe that sex-for-one is a natural part of living; we all touch our hair,
necks, knees and many other spots on our bodies in public to calm ourselves or to
scratch itches, and it is no less acceptable, they assure us, to touch other
body parts in private.
A friend, a senior citizen, stopped me after church one Sunday and said,
"Please tell the children that masturbation won't hurt them. I spent my entire
youth in agony waiting to go blind, because my parents told me that's what
would happen if I masturbated. I guess I could have stopped, but going blind
seemed the better option."
We all want to tell our children the truth about their bodies and sex, but
many of us are afraid of the consequences. Parents need to let go of the idea
that ignorance maintains innocence and begin teaching age-appropriate facts to
children. Informed children know what sexual abuse and harassment are, what
normal physical closeness with others is, what should be reported, and to
whom. Rather than tell children that touching themselves is forbidden, parents
may gently explain that this is best done in private.
One enlightened friend shared with me the story of how she taught her
pre-school-aged daughter about her anatomy: The mother told the girl about her
vagina as they examined theirs together with mirrors. There was some discussion
and admiration. Later that day, friends came to dinner at their home, and at
the dinner table the father asked his daughter what she had done during the
day. Of course, she told him the most interesting thing that had happened: she
and Mommy looked at their vaginas. But hers was prettier than her mommy's --
"Want to see?" The stunned dinner guests were silent as the mother quickly
retreated with her daughter to explain privacy. It is never okay to shame
children for natural inquisitiveness or behavior: that shame lasts forever.
Masturbation, practiced consciously or unconsciously, cultivates in us a
humble elegance -- an awareness that we are part of a larger natural system, the
passions and rhythms of which live on in us. Sexuality is part of creation,
part of our common inheritance, and it reminds us that we are neither
inherently better nor worse than our sisters and brothers. Far from evil,
masturbation just may render heavenly contentment in those who dare.
©1997 M. Joycelyn Elders, M.D. and Nerve Publishing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-=-Joycelyn Elders got fired by President Clinton for talking about
masturbation. I'm attaching this essay she wrote because the link no longer
works.-=-
That article inspired me to make a page on masturbation. I know lots of
moms are afraid to discuss it or don't have any ideas, or have vague concerns
left over from their own childhoods of too-little or too-wrong information, so
here:
http://sandradodd.com/surgeongeneral
I thought of calling it /masturbation, but didn't.
I wrestled with the idea, but some people LIKE to find something to be
disturbed about, and I didn't want to do them a favor.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
masturbation. I'm attaching this essay she wrote because the link no longer
works.-=-
That article inspired me to make a page on masturbation. I know lots of
moms are afraid to discuss it or don't have any ideas, or have vague concerns
left over from their own childhoods of too-little or too-wrong information, so
here:
http://sandradodd.com/surgeongeneral
I thought of calling it /masturbation, but didn't.
I wrestled with the idea, but some people LIKE to find something to be
disturbed about, and I didn't want to do them a favor.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Salamander starr
What struck me as revolting about that article is, if I recall correctly,
the mother blames the school's abstinence-based sex ed program as "not
working". While I agree, it apparently is not working, since when does
sending your kids to school mean that you retain no right to provide
information to them beyond what the school condones?
Oh yes, and I agree asking someone, anyone the same inane question over and
over again is defintely a major deterent...whatever.
A
To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
--Oscar Wilde
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the mother blames the school's abstinence-based sex ed program as "not
working". While I agree, it apparently is not working, since when does
sending your kids to school mean that you retain no right to provide
information to them beyond what the school condones?
Oh yes, and I agree asking someone, anyone the same inane question over and
over again is defintely a major deterent...whatever.
A
To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
--Oscar Wilde
>From: SandraDodd@..._________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] sex ed, seriously
>Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:11:27 EDT
>
>
> > -=-If we have to, just give
> > them condoms.-=-
> >
>I wanted to comment on that, which one of the Ohio moms said to a reporter.
>"If we have to..."
>WHEN!?! 13 % of the girls at that high school are pregnant NOW. It is
>too
>late for condoms for those, but the other 87% should have condoms galore.
>"Have to"?
>
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Salamander starr
And why should you get monoey for teaching something that doesn't cost
money????? Abstinence-based program:
"Don't have sex!"
Wow, no time, money or effort spent on that one.
A
To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
--Oscar Wilde
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money????? Abstinence-based program:
"Don't have sex!"
Wow, no time, money or effort spent on that one.
A
To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
--Oscar Wilde
>The govenment has given 32million dollars_________________________________________________________________
>to Ohio for abstinence programs??? Maybe it's time to
>rethink that?
>
>Brandie
>http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
>http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________
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>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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