TV Content musings
Robyn Coburn
I am cross posting with slight modifications this from AU, for reasons that
are immediately clear.
<<<<<< The amount of t.v. hasn't been the problem, but the content.>>>>>
It has been the most pronounced incidence of synchronicity that I have yet
noticed on the lists where there have been three mothers posting almost the
exact same sentiments on three Unschooling lists, specifically expressing
the same concerns about "limiting to appropriate content" with children of
varying ages, from 2 yo to 6 year olds, to a 10 yo, and a 14 yo.
This is not really the forum for a lengthy dissertation into the discourses
of television comedy, or a dissection of the semiotics of the sitcom as a
depiction of the American family - as entertaining as I would personally
find writing such an essay.
Nor is it necessarily as helpful to get into a lengthy "I don't like show
X"..."Oh I like show X a lot" debate - because tastes differ, definitions of
"vulgar" or funny differ, and it doesn't really get any further into the
principles behind the ideas of choice and learning.
There seem to be two issues in reference to the content of tv programs or
movies. The first is the idea that the content, while not necessarily
objectionable in itself, is too "mature" for the children - either too scary
or too sexually explicit seem to the main concerns.
In the first situation I have found, similarly to what others have reported,
that Jayn is very good at self-care if she starts to become scared of
images, sounds or characters' behavior. She also seems to have developed her
own specific coping mechanisms for exploring the scary stuff including fast
forwarding, going away for a minute, desensitizing herself with repeated
gradual exposures, and role-playing games. I too have learnt the kind of
music or images that disturb her, and will warn her if a program seems
likely to be scary.
In the case of sexually explicit - and people have different places where
they will become concerned - I have found, again similarly to what others
have reported, that Jayn has zero interest in the sexual or even mere
romantic antics of people on tv. She certainly is not seeking it out. If
something comes on in the course of changing channels or she walks into the
other room and something is on, she gets a kind of "that looks stupid"
expression and usually totally ignores it. At around 3, she used to enjoy
"Sex and the City" because she liked the pretty dresses and sparkles, and
would just go play with her dolls during any of the incomprehensible to her
sexual scenes. Now she just lumps adult themed shows of any kind (eg police
drama) together as "boring" or "stupid garbage" and asks for Disney channel.
It is only a matter of time before she starts expressing ideas and seeking
clarification (her version of asking questions) on the odd sexual scenes she
bumps into at times on tv.
*** I will add that I believe that she will start seeking out or being
attracted to programs with sexual content (of any kind) at the appropriate
developmental time when her inner questioning arrives at that place - or to
put it conversely, she won't be interested until and unless she is "ready"
to receive that kind of information, coupled with the additional guidance
that I will be able to give her about the level of reality that she is
seeing. I try to see every new program as an opportunity for more
communication between us.
The second issue of concern has to do with the "family values" and behavior
and relationships of characters in the shows. I have to agree that both the
characters and the situations in teen sitcoms and movies often depict values
that are in conflict with the ideas of Unschooling, including lousy
parenting, adults as adversarial and dumb simultaneously, and sibling
conflict portrayed as normal and acceptable.
However whether these values are going to be genuinely internalized and
adopted by our children is another question. I personally doubt it, despite
the experimental forays into these less than charming behaviors our kids
sometimes engage in. I am seeing it for the first time - Jayn has started
calling me "stupid head" at odd times - from "Lilo and Stitch" (movie). I
have Trust that it will get old soon. I also endorse the idea of talking
over in a genuine way specific behaviors or ideas, rather than making a
negative assessment of the show your kid loves. (I come and blurt the latter
onto the lists instead of onto Jayn). ;)
Aside from the fact that I doubt that any of us are remotely like any of
these detached, authoritarian or befuddled parents, the biggest, hugest,
most significant difference between our children and 100percent of the kids
portrayed on any of these shows is: they are all in mandatory school.
These TV children's primary bonding relationships are shown as being with
their friends and age peers, and with few exceptions, the majority of their
time is spent in the school hallways, on school related projects, including
some really contrived nonsense, and conversing with each other about school
stuff or school people. Additionally, with the one exception of Ren Stevens
who likes it and is a butt of humor for that reason, they seem consider
school a necessary evil.
I believe that these shows portray a heightened and exaggerated depiction of
what we Unschoolers would consider some of the very real negatives of school
as they apply to family life - the appropriation of almost all time with the
concomitant disintegration of close family relationships, the culture of
peer approval and cliques and personality labeling ("jocks", "geeks",
"popular girls", etc), the separation and fostering of distrust and
disconnection between parents and children, the adult (parent or teacher) as
both incomprehensible and a killjoy even while they are "humorously"
infantile (esp. males), children as directly powerless in the face of school
or parental rules so resorting to underhand strategies (hi jinks ensue!
:P~~).
The entertainment value of these shows to schooled children, who undoubtedly
recognize themselves to a much greater degree, is likely partly in that very
separation from the parents. The tv kids usually spend almost no time in
class of any kind - more wishful thinking for the schooled kids. It is
possible that these tv kids have more personal power and autonomy than the
real children - they certainly will do more outlandish stuff. The didactic
"mother knows best in the end" message of most of these shows, is a small
price to pay (I mean for the schooled child viewers) for getting to watch
people make really dumb choices (dumber than they might make irl) and follow
through the absurd results. I notice that "grounding" is the universal
punishment, applied even after the "lesson" has been learned.
I suspect that most of our children have much less identification with the
characters. Maybe they watch this stuff with the same sense of disbelieving
astonishment that some of us apply to Jerry Springer, or with the same
curiosity as pausing to view a car wreck or collapsed building. It is the
very "otherness" of these families that makes them interesting.
I asked Jayn what she likes about "That's So Raven", her current favorite. I
discovered that her attraction to the show comes from her enjoyment of
Raven's dress up as odd characters antics, and also she likes Raven's
regular clothing which is heavy on the sparkle, feathers and embroidery. We
record the programs, and sometimes if one of the other characters is the
featured story that day, she will ask me to skip over those scenes that do
not include Raven herself. In other words the actual narrative or internal
"logic" is irrelevant to Jayn's enjoyment.
In the past Jayn has included shows that I don't like (for values) in her
viewing schedule. Her interest has waned, not because I made any attempt to
limit, but because she received all she needed and her interests matured. We
had lots of conversations about specific moments that I disapproved of,
along the lines of other choices the characters could have made in those
moments.
Unlike schooled kids, our children have the opportunity to continue to have
authentic relationships with us. We can continue to be the first and primary
values influence in their lives, as well as their strongest safety net,
regardless of what tv shows they like. I hope that it is our huge presence
in their lives, and willingness to really listen without a hidden agenda,
that will ultimately mitigate any of the experimental "bad" behavior that
they may try on.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
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are immediately clear.
<<<<<< The amount of t.v. hasn't been the problem, but the content.>>>>>
It has been the most pronounced incidence of synchronicity that I have yet
noticed on the lists where there have been three mothers posting almost the
exact same sentiments on three Unschooling lists, specifically expressing
the same concerns about "limiting to appropriate content" with children of
varying ages, from 2 yo to 6 year olds, to a 10 yo, and a 14 yo.
This is not really the forum for a lengthy dissertation into the discourses
of television comedy, or a dissection of the semiotics of the sitcom as a
depiction of the American family - as entertaining as I would personally
find writing such an essay.
Nor is it necessarily as helpful to get into a lengthy "I don't like show
X"..."Oh I like show X a lot" debate - because tastes differ, definitions of
"vulgar" or funny differ, and it doesn't really get any further into the
principles behind the ideas of choice and learning.
There seem to be two issues in reference to the content of tv programs or
movies. The first is the idea that the content, while not necessarily
objectionable in itself, is too "mature" for the children - either too scary
or too sexually explicit seem to the main concerns.
In the first situation I have found, similarly to what others have reported,
that Jayn is very good at self-care if she starts to become scared of
images, sounds or characters' behavior. She also seems to have developed her
own specific coping mechanisms for exploring the scary stuff including fast
forwarding, going away for a minute, desensitizing herself with repeated
gradual exposures, and role-playing games. I too have learnt the kind of
music or images that disturb her, and will warn her if a program seems
likely to be scary.
In the case of sexually explicit - and people have different places where
they will become concerned - I have found, again similarly to what others
have reported, that Jayn has zero interest in the sexual or even mere
romantic antics of people on tv. She certainly is not seeking it out. If
something comes on in the course of changing channels or she walks into the
other room and something is on, she gets a kind of "that looks stupid"
expression and usually totally ignores it. At around 3, she used to enjoy
"Sex and the City" because she liked the pretty dresses and sparkles, and
would just go play with her dolls during any of the incomprehensible to her
sexual scenes. Now she just lumps adult themed shows of any kind (eg police
drama) together as "boring" or "stupid garbage" and asks for Disney channel.
It is only a matter of time before she starts expressing ideas and seeking
clarification (her version of asking questions) on the odd sexual scenes she
bumps into at times on tv.
*** I will add that I believe that she will start seeking out or being
attracted to programs with sexual content (of any kind) at the appropriate
developmental time when her inner questioning arrives at that place - or to
put it conversely, she won't be interested until and unless she is "ready"
to receive that kind of information, coupled with the additional guidance
that I will be able to give her about the level of reality that she is
seeing. I try to see every new program as an opportunity for more
communication between us.
The second issue of concern has to do with the "family values" and behavior
and relationships of characters in the shows. I have to agree that both the
characters and the situations in teen sitcoms and movies often depict values
that are in conflict with the ideas of Unschooling, including lousy
parenting, adults as adversarial and dumb simultaneously, and sibling
conflict portrayed as normal and acceptable.
However whether these values are going to be genuinely internalized and
adopted by our children is another question. I personally doubt it, despite
the experimental forays into these less than charming behaviors our kids
sometimes engage in. I am seeing it for the first time - Jayn has started
calling me "stupid head" at odd times - from "Lilo and Stitch" (movie). I
have Trust that it will get old soon. I also endorse the idea of talking
over in a genuine way specific behaviors or ideas, rather than making a
negative assessment of the show your kid loves. (I come and blurt the latter
onto the lists instead of onto Jayn). ;)
Aside from the fact that I doubt that any of us are remotely like any of
these detached, authoritarian or befuddled parents, the biggest, hugest,
most significant difference between our children and 100percent of the kids
portrayed on any of these shows is: they are all in mandatory school.
These TV children's primary bonding relationships are shown as being with
their friends and age peers, and with few exceptions, the majority of their
time is spent in the school hallways, on school related projects, including
some really contrived nonsense, and conversing with each other about school
stuff or school people. Additionally, with the one exception of Ren Stevens
who likes it and is a butt of humor for that reason, they seem consider
school a necessary evil.
I believe that these shows portray a heightened and exaggerated depiction of
what we Unschoolers would consider some of the very real negatives of school
as they apply to family life - the appropriation of almost all time with the
concomitant disintegration of close family relationships, the culture of
peer approval and cliques and personality labeling ("jocks", "geeks",
"popular girls", etc), the separation and fostering of distrust and
disconnection between parents and children, the adult (parent or teacher) as
both incomprehensible and a killjoy even while they are "humorously"
infantile (esp. males), children as directly powerless in the face of school
or parental rules so resorting to underhand strategies (hi jinks ensue!
:P~~).
The entertainment value of these shows to schooled children, who undoubtedly
recognize themselves to a much greater degree, is likely partly in that very
separation from the parents. The tv kids usually spend almost no time in
class of any kind - more wishful thinking for the schooled kids. It is
possible that these tv kids have more personal power and autonomy than the
real children - they certainly will do more outlandish stuff. The didactic
"mother knows best in the end" message of most of these shows, is a small
price to pay (I mean for the schooled child viewers) for getting to watch
people make really dumb choices (dumber than they might make irl) and follow
through the absurd results. I notice that "grounding" is the universal
punishment, applied even after the "lesson" has been learned.
I suspect that most of our children have much less identification with the
characters. Maybe they watch this stuff with the same sense of disbelieving
astonishment that some of us apply to Jerry Springer, or with the same
curiosity as pausing to view a car wreck or collapsed building. It is the
very "otherness" of these families that makes them interesting.
I asked Jayn what she likes about "That's So Raven", her current favorite. I
discovered that her attraction to the show comes from her enjoyment of
Raven's dress up as odd characters antics, and also she likes Raven's
regular clothing which is heavy on the sparkle, feathers and embroidery. We
record the programs, and sometimes if one of the other characters is the
featured story that day, she will ask me to skip over those scenes that do
not include Raven herself. In other words the actual narrative or internal
"logic" is irrelevant to Jayn's enjoyment.
In the past Jayn has included shows that I don't like (for values) in her
viewing schedule. Her interest has waned, not because I made any attempt to
limit, but because she received all she needed and her interests matured. We
had lots of conversations about specific moments that I disapproved of,
along the lines of other choices the characters could have made in those
moments.
Unlike schooled kids, our children have the opportunity to continue to have
authentic relationships with us. We can continue to be the first and primary
values influence in their lives, as well as their strongest safety net,
regardless of what tv shows they like. I hope that it is our huge presence
in their lives, and willingness to really listen without a hidden agenda,
that will ultimately mitigate any of the experimental "bad" behavior that
they may try on.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
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[email protected]
In a message dated 8/19/05 8:55:26 PM, dezigna@... writes:
Urkel character, and while they knew the actor was totally putting on this goofy
Urkel posture and voice, they REALLY loved it when he would do his sexy
alter-ego "Stefan" or his cousin Myrtle.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> discovered that her attraction to the show comes from her enjoyment ofWhen my kids were little there were re-runs of whatever show had the Steve
> Raven's dress up as odd characters antics
>
Urkel character, and while they knew the actor was totally putting on this goofy
Urkel posture and voice, they REALLY loved it when he would do his sexy
alter-ego "Stefan" or his cousin Myrtle.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<<When my kids were little there were re-runs of whatever show had the
Steve
Urkel character, and while they knew the actor was totally putting on this
goofy
Urkel posture and voice, they REALLY loved it when he would do his sexy
alter-ego "Stefan" or his cousin Myrtle. >>>>>
I always loved it when Serena was around making trouble for Samantha, and I
remember that Jeannie had a brunette cousin too, whose name escapes me.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Steve
Urkel character, and while they knew the actor was totally putting on this
goofy
Urkel posture and voice, they REALLY loved it when he would do his sexy
alter-ego "Stefan" or his cousin Myrtle. >>>>>
I always loved it when Serena was around making trouble for Samantha, and I
remember that Jeannie had a brunette cousin too, whose name escapes me.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 20, 2005, at 12:34 AM, Robyn Coburn wrote:
I think it was her sister.
(Imaginative parents!)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Jeannie had a brunette cousin too, whose name escapes meJeannie. :-)
I think it was her sister.
(Imaginative parents!)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]