Re: "It's good for you..."
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
I'm afraid that most folks think it is GOOD for their kids and HEALTHY to
force them to learn things that they don't want to. When I first told my
mother about Unschooling she said, "But, what about making them learn the
things that they need to learn but don't want to?"
Like what, mom? I have yet to see someone who is a self motivated learner
reach adulthood without learning the tools they need to prosper. On the
other hand, I know lots of folks who are the product of public school who
have given up. They think they are stupid, or that it is too late for
them, or the have a phobia of a subject because of their unpleasant school
experiences. My next door neighbor, the one who made it all the way
through the ps system in our town without being able to read or write says
it is too late for her, even though I pointed out how great it would be for
her to learn alongside her 6 year old, how bonding and fun it would be.
But....I'm afraid she has been badly wounded by ps, rather than those on
this list who have decided to empower themselves for positive change.
Nanci K. in Idaho
force them to learn things that they don't want to. When I first told my
mother about Unschooling she said, "But, what about making them learn the
things that they need to learn but don't want to?"
Like what, mom? I have yet to see someone who is a self motivated learner
reach adulthood without learning the tools they need to prosper. On the
other hand, I know lots of folks who are the product of public school who
have given up. They think they are stupid, or that it is too late for
them, or the have a phobia of a subject because of their unpleasant school
experiences. My next door neighbor, the one who made it all the way
through the ps system in our town without being able to read or write says
it is too late for her, even though I pointed out how great it would be for
her to learn alongside her 6 year old, how bonding and fun it would be.
But....I'm afraid she has been badly wounded by ps, rather than those on
this list who have decided to empower themselves for positive change.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: Brown <mjcmbrwn@...>
>
>But how incredibly sad that this reality is so wide spread and so well
>recognised that it is on a greeting card, yet so many people continue to
>send their kids off to school, no questions asked.
>
>Carol
>
>Tea Lover Denise wrote:
>> I thought to myself, "What a *perfect* card to give to someone who has
>> just escaped the world of conventional schooling!"
Andi Kaufman
Nanci wrote:
work". but i do force helping around the house. he has chores adn things he
is responsible for. I try to keep them at his level but sometimes he has to
learn how to do something he doesnt know or doesnt want to. this isnt a
choice. he is a member of this family and expected to share in its daily
living.
i tend to think you are talking math and stuff. it is easy not force that
there cus there are so many things out there that he asks about and he
needs to learn to do them. he learned about moeny by getting an allowence
and figuring out how to spend it.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
>I'm afraid that most folks think it is GOOD for their kids and HEALTHY toAgain it depends on what you mean by forced learning. I dont force " school
>force them to learn things that they don't want to. When I first told my
>mother about Unschooling she said, "But, what about making them learn the
>things that they need to learn but don't want to?"
work". but i do force helping around the house. he has chores adn things he
is responsible for. I try to keep them at his level but sometimes he has to
learn how to do something he doesnt know or doesnt want to. this isnt a
choice. he is a member of this family and expected to share in its daily
living.
i tend to think you are talking math and stuff. it is easy not force that
there cus there are so many things out there that he asks about and he
needs to learn to do them. he learned about moeny by getting an allowence
and figuring out how to spend it.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
Lisa Bugg
>Know what my mother-in-law asked me one day? She asked me if I was teaching
>I'm afraid that most folks think it is GOOD for their kids and HEALTHY to
>force them to learn things that they don't want to. When I first told my
>mother about Unschooling she said, "But, what about making them learn the
>things that they need to learn but don't want to?"
>
>Like what, mom?
the kids to concentrate. I stuttered. I couldn't for the life of me figure
out what to say. I ended up saying Concentrating on what?????? "Oh,
anything", was the reply. I'm afraid I made a very bad impression on that
most wonderful woman, 'cause us I said, "SURE, They concentrate on all
kinds of things everyday! All of their own choosing". She didn't get it.
:)
Lisa
Olivia
Every time my parents visit they question my son about not going back to
school next year, as if trying to sway him to think there is something
wrong with his decision. I don't mind discussing the subject, but I do mind
when my father makes comments like "he's never going to learn anything at
home" out loud and in front of my son. I end up fumbling over my
explanation because I don't want to start arguing in front of my son like
he wasn't there, and I don't want him to be put on the defensive. I thought
they were trying to understand, but I guess we're not there yet. *SIGH*
Olivia
If they can't fully support our family's decision then I would hope they
just wouldn't bad-mouth it in my own home.
Lisa wrote:
school next year, as if trying to sway him to think there is something
wrong with his decision. I don't mind discussing the subject, but I do mind
when my father makes comments like "he's never going to learn anything at
home" out loud and in front of my son. I end up fumbling over my
explanation because I don't want to start arguing in front of my son like
he wasn't there, and I don't want him to be put on the defensive. I thought
they were trying to understand, but I guess we're not there yet. *SIGH*
Olivia
If they can't fully support our family's decision then I would hope they
just wouldn't bad-mouth it in my own home.
Lisa wrote:
>Know what my mother-in-law asked me one day? She asked me if I was teaching
>the kids to concentrate. I stuttered. I couldn't for the life of me figure
>out what to say. I ended up saying Concentrating on what?????? "Oh,
>anything", was the reply. I'm afraid I made a very bad impression on that
>most wonderful woman, 'cause us I said, "SURE, They concentrate on all
>kinds of things everyday! All of their own choosing". She didn't get it.
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/13/1999 10:41:44 PM, LisaBugg@... wrote:
<<
Know what my mother-in-law asked me one day? She asked me if I was teaching
the kids to concentrate. I stuttered. I couldn't for the life of me figure
out what to say. I ended up saying Concentrating on what??????>>
My mother-in-law (years ago, before she gave up) said I needed to frustrate
my kids. That if Ididn't purposely frustrate them that they would grow up
totally unable to deal with frustration.
She said this when I had babies, toddlers.
The longer I've known her the more sadistic she seems. It's scary. I just
don't have the urge to see a happy person and inflict unhappiness, looking at
their eyes to make sure it took. Yuck!!
Sandra
<<
Know what my mother-in-law asked me one day? She asked me if I was teaching
the kids to concentrate. I stuttered. I couldn't for the life of me figure
out what to say. I ended up saying Concentrating on what??????>>
My mother-in-law (years ago, before she gave up) said I needed to frustrate
my kids. That if Ididn't purposely frustrate them that they would grow up
totally unable to deal with frustration.
She said this when I had babies, toddlers.
The longer I've known her the more sadistic she seems. It's scary. I just
don't have the urge to see a happy person and inflict unhappiness, looking at
their eyes to make sure it took. Yuck!!
Sandra
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
Maybe I just have an appalling lack of fear of that older generation, but I
would have calmly informed then that I do not appreciate that type of
disrespect toward my lifestlye or beliefs in my home. Much the same way I
let guests know that we do not smoke in our home, do not appreciate racial
or other types of slurs and derogatory language. It is unacceptable for
anyone, especially family, to be so insulting and belittling, in front of
the kids or NOT. If you wouldn't take it from a friend or stranger, you
shouldn't take it from them either. I believe that I am my children's
example in how to stand up for what they believe in, and I won't back down
for anyone. I also believe in the art of manners, and that those who are
respectful of you deserve your respect, but if they are rude and insulting,
they deserve some censure.
Nanci K. in Idaho
At 08:40 AM 6/14/99 -0400, you wrote:
would have calmly informed then that I do not appreciate that type of
disrespect toward my lifestlye or beliefs in my home. Much the same way I
let guests know that we do not smoke in our home, do not appreciate racial
or other types of slurs and derogatory language. It is unacceptable for
anyone, especially family, to be so insulting and belittling, in front of
the kids or NOT. If you wouldn't take it from a friend or stranger, you
shouldn't take it from them either. I believe that I am my children's
example in how to stand up for what they believe in, and I won't back down
for anyone. I also believe in the art of manners, and that those who are
respectful of you deserve your respect, but if they are rude and insulting,
they deserve some censure.
Nanci K. in Idaho
At 08:40 AM 6/14/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: Olivia <liv2learn@...>
>
>Every time my parents visit they question my son about not going back to
>school next year, as if trying to sway him to think there is something
>wrong with his decision. I don't mind discussing the subject, but I do mind
>when my father makes comments like "he's never going to learn anything at
>home" out loud and in front of my son. I end up fumbling over my
>explanation because I don't want to start arguing in front of my son like
>he wasn't there, and I don't want him to be put on the defensive. I thought
>they were trying to understand, but I guess we're not there yet. *SIGH*
>
>Olivia
>
>
>If they can't fully support our family's decision then I would hope they
>just wouldn't bad-mouth it in my own home.
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/14/99 7:43:02 AM Central Daylight Time,
liv2learn@... writes:
<< I don't mind discussing the subject, but I do mind
when my father makes comments like "he's never going to learn anything at
home" out loud and in front of my son. I end up fumbling over my
explanation because I don't want to start arguing in front of my son >>
Olivia,
That sounds so much like my parents, that it is scary! (Do you think
they are clones? <g>) My parents have made comments like this for 3 years.
Finally we have tried talking to them in private, but that didn't do any good
either. We told them that it was harmful for the kids to hear them put me
(and their dad) down about our decisions in child rearing, and that we
wouldn't allow them to do it anymore. Then when they did it again, we
started having less visits with them. They don't like it, but they are
getting the picture, that we mean what we say.
Tami
liv2learn@... writes:
<< I don't mind discussing the subject, but I do mind
when my father makes comments like "he's never going to learn anything at
home" out loud and in front of my son. I end up fumbling over my
explanation because I don't want to start arguing in front of my son >>
Olivia,
That sounds so much like my parents, that it is scary! (Do you think
they are clones? <g>) My parents have made comments like this for 3 years.
Finally we have tried talking to them in private, but that didn't do any good
either. We told them that it was harmful for the kids to hear them put me
(and their dad) down about our decisions in child rearing, and that we
wouldn't allow them to do it anymore. Then when they did it again, we
started having less visits with them. They don't like it, but they are
getting the picture, that we mean what we say.
Tami
Olivia
I am hopeful that they will come to understand our decision. It may be
easier once we have made it through our first year without school. My mom
is more willing to think about new concepts, especially after discussions
with her about her own negative experiences in school. My dad is concerned
with "discipline" which he sees as lacking in our house; he thinks my son
needs school for "discipline" (ie: some adult making him do something.) But
you know the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make
him drink." I guess you could change that and say "you can lead a child to
school but you can't make him think." LOL (Maybe I could use that the
next time they question me.)
Olivia
Tami wrote:
easier once we have made it through our first year without school. My mom
is more willing to think about new concepts, especially after discussions
with her about her own negative experiences in school. My dad is concerned
with "discipline" which he sees as lacking in our house; he thinks my son
needs school for "discipline" (ie: some adult making him do something.) But
you know the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make
him drink." I guess you could change that and say "you can lead a child to
school but you can't make him think." LOL (Maybe I could use that the
next time they question me.)
Olivia
Tami wrote:
> That sounds so much like my parents, that it is scary! (Do you think
>they are clones? <g>) My parents have made comments like this for 3 years.
>Finally we have tried talking to them in private, but that didn't do any good
>either. We told them that it was harmful for the kids to hear them put me
>(and their dad) down about our decisions in child rearing, and that we
>wouldn't allow them to do it anymore. Then when they did it again, we
>started having less visits with them. They don't like it, but they are
>getting the picture, that we mean what we say.
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/15/99 7:23:15 AM Central Daylight Time,
liv2learn@... writes:
<< My mom
is more willing to think about new concepts, especially after discussions
with her about her own negative experiences in school. My dad is concerned
with "discipline" which he sees as lacking in our house; he thinks my son
needs school for "discipline" (ie: some adult making him do something. >>
Olivia,
It sounds as if your mom is trying to understand. I hope that she is
listening to you and is willing to have an open mind. As far as the way your
dad feels, well I have learned that alot of people feel that way. I have had
comments made to me quite often, that the kids need to go to school, so that
they learn to do things they don't like to do! I also hear comments about
"Well, we survived it, so will they". I don't know why people think our kids
should be made to "do something" they don't like to do. We sure wouldn't
like someone making us do that. And since I usually get the excuse of it
preparing them for a lifetime of work that they don't like to do, but they
must do to feed the family?-----well I am hoping that all of my kids, find
out what they love to do and make a career out of that. I think that alot of
us have had jobs we don't like, just because we were told the same thing when
we were kids. I for one, think it is time to change that!
Tami
liv2learn@... writes:
<< My mom
is more willing to think about new concepts, especially after discussions
with her about her own negative experiences in school. My dad is concerned
with "discipline" which he sees as lacking in our house; he thinks my son
needs school for "discipline" (ie: some adult making him do something. >>
Olivia,
It sounds as if your mom is trying to understand. I hope that she is
listening to you and is willing to have an open mind. As far as the way your
dad feels, well I have learned that alot of people feel that way. I have had
comments made to me quite often, that the kids need to go to school, so that
they learn to do things they don't like to do! I also hear comments about
"Well, we survived it, so will they". I don't know why people think our kids
should be made to "do something" they don't like to do. We sure wouldn't
like someone making us do that. And since I usually get the excuse of it
preparing them for a lifetime of work that they don't like to do, but they
must do to feed the family?-----well I am hoping that all of my kids, find
out what they love to do and make a career out of that. I think that alot of
us have had jobs we don't like, just because we were told the same thing when
we were kids. I for one, think it is time to change that!
Tami