ages, organizing, was originally dating
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/25/05 11:18:38 AM, unschooling@...
writes:
Two other people wrote:
couple of Holly-friends who would call and attempt to plan a get-together, but
they had NO real information and no answers to any of our questions so it just
didn't work, and I would just about every time get on the phone and ask to talk
to her mom. If the mom had said "Ask if Holly can come over tomorrow to swim
in the afternoon and we can pick her up," that would've been fine. But it
was "Holly, do you want to come over tomorrow?" And that inviter had not a
single answer to what time or how or how long or what are we going to do. Two
different families. The mom might've thought she was "teaching" the child
to use the phone or to make her own arrangements, but the result was that we
were frustrated and that child was not experiencing confidence or
accomplishment.
Maybe in such a family the child will go no further in planning than to say
"Do you want to go to the mall?" And then the rest of the trip to the mall
might unfold roughly (like they don't get there in time for a movie, or have to
be back before it would end, or whatever). And maybe those parents know
their child is incapable of planning something smoothly, but it wouldn't be
because of age, it would more likely be because the child wasn't used to having
someone more experienced ask the right questions for years before they were 13.
Any of my kids have been able to for years plan an outing, with times and
travel times and how much money they'll need, but maybe it's partly modelling and
maybe it's partly coaching and SURELY it's partly genetics. Keith and I
were first drawn to each other because of singing and organizational ability, and
we have singing, organizing kids.
Keith's first serious interest in me came from my having organized a bus trip
for 25 people to Houston. Not a charter trip; that's easy. A schoolbus,
bought, repainted, equipped, and the route planned (there's not an easy route
from Albuquerque to Houston) food on the way (some meals from coolers and one
stop a day at an all-you-can eat place)... He rode back with us, but had
flown out. I was 24 years old.
I was 24, so does that mean 24 year olds can organize group outings?
Holly is 13 and can organize outings, but does that mean 13 year olds CAN
organize outings?
It's not about age. Rules about ages will always miss. I was not allowed
to date until I was 15. Some 15 year olds have already sneaked off and done
their worst under unsanitary conditions. Some are not ready to date at 15.
Rules over principles are bad because they don't allow people to develop at
their own rate and for things to be done for reasons of desire and readiness
and maturity.
Principles over rules, though, when the people in the situations don't have
or understand principles, results in a mess of nothing useful. And so while
it's ideal for people to live by principles, maybe in some families the
principle is that all that works for them are rules and ages because they don't
understand any other way.
This rolls back onto the question of whether anyone can unschool.
I don't suppose they can, if they don't have the ability to stop and wonder
what it would be, and see several ways in which they might contribute
positively to it right then, and to also see what the roadblocks are in their own lives
and to have some idea how to disassemble those or avoid them.
It's not about being a certain age, it's something else.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
Two other people wrote:
> > Seems a 13 yr old (mine) cannot *plan* a movie bc the other parents sayI must say, though, not of 13 year olds but of younger kids, there were a
> > "Children are not to plan events adults do".........
>
> Sorry, what does this mean? Plan formal events for a homeschooling
> group (including the adults) to do? Plan events for themselves that are
> activities that are reserved for adults?
>
couple of Holly-friends who would call and attempt to plan a get-together, but
they had NO real information and no answers to any of our questions so it just
didn't work, and I would just about every time get on the phone and ask to talk
to her mom. If the mom had said "Ask if Holly can come over tomorrow to swim
in the afternoon and we can pick her up," that would've been fine. But it
was "Holly, do you want to come over tomorrow?" And that inviter had not a
single answer to what time or how or how long or what are we going to do. Two
different families. The mom might've thought she was "teaching" the child
to use the phone or to make her own arrangements, but the result was that we
were frustrated and that child was not experiencing confidence or
accomplishment.
Maybe in such a family the child will go no further in planning than to say
"Do you want to go to the mall?" And then the rest of the trip to the mall
might unfold roughly (like they don't get there in time for a movie, or have to
be back before it would end, or whatever). And maybe those parents know
their child is incapable of planning something smoothly, but it wouldn't be
because of age, it would more likely be because the child wasn't used to having
someone more experienced ask the right questions for years before they were 13.
Any of my kids have been able to for years plan an outing, with times and
travel times and how much money they'll need, but maybe it's partly modelling and
maybe it's partly coaching and SURELY it's partly genetics. Keith and I
were first drawn to each other because of singing and organizational ability, and
we have singing, organizing kids.
Keith's first serious interest in me came from my having organized a bus trip
for 25 people to Houston. Not a charter trip; that's easy. A schoolbus,
bought, repainted, equipped, and the route planned (there's not an easy route
from Albuquerque to Houston) food on the way (some meals from coolers and one
stop a day at an all-you-can eat place)... He rode back with us, but had
flown out. I was 24 years old.
I was 24, so does that mean 24 year olds can organize group outings?
Holly is 13 and can organize outings, but does that mean 13 year olds CAN
organize outings?
It's not about age. Rules about ages will always miss. I was not allowed
to date until I was 15. Some 15 year olds have already sneaked off and done
their worst under unsanitary conditions. Some are not ready to date at 15.
Rules over principles are bad because they don't allow people to develop at
their own rate and for things to be done for reasons of desire and readiness
and maturity.
Principles over rules, though, when the people in the situations don't have
or understand principles, results in a mess of nothing useful. And so while
it's ideal for people to live by principles, maybe in some families the
principle is that all that works for them are rules and ages because they don't
understand any other way.
This rolls back onto the question of whether anyone can unschool.
I don't suppose they can, if they don't have the ability to stop and wonder
what it would be, and see several ways in which they might contribute
positively to it right then, and to also see what the roadblocks are in their own lives
and to have some idea how to disassemble those or avoid them.
It's not about being a certain age, it's something else.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<Sorry, what does this mean? Plan formal events for a homeschooling
A movie.... with other kids. Separate from the group, just friends.. Parents
may or may not attend. This was not the first one that had been planned..
L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> group (including the adults) to do? Plan events for themselves that are********************
> activities that are reserved for adults? >>
A movie.... with other kids. Separate from the group, just friends.. Parents
may or may not attend. This was not the first one that had been planned..
L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]