learning to ease up/unschool
[email protected]
I usually just read the messages but this morning felt I had to post.
I was not raised in an unschool environment in the least, so the concept of unforced learning was shocking, but welcome. (It did take a bit to stop looking quite so wide-eyed at the thought.) School and "fitting in" were really pushed when I was younger - Unfortunately I rarely fit in, didn't know how and was furious that I had to act like someone else to have "friends." Of course, insecurity and shyness played a big part, but I do have one redeeming (???) quality - Instantaneous Rebellion... I have a smart mouth, I loathe taking orders (especially frivolous ones) and I can rebel in the wink of an eye. Hence, if I put a little effort into it, I can usually "tick off" a person in a short amount of time. LOL! (It is fairly recent that I **TRULY** realized, "Who honestly wants to be a carbon copy of every neighbor they have? What is so wrong with *not* being exactly like everyone else?")
I also absolutely HATED school for the most part and my fondest wish was to land on a deserted island somewhere with a ton of books and an open grocery store (well, and horses, in spades!) I love to read, always have, since I was 3 or 4. I am constantly going after books and getting sidetracked researching something that has caught my interest.
My boys are still fairly young but seem to be following the same path of curiosity, although they are more social than I was (maybe they get that from their father?) We are pretty relaxed; I don't push them very often with their studies, usually only when I am nervous about an upcoming possible conflict with a family member over education decisions - my ex-MIL is a teacher and principal who "wants" him back in school this fall. (Having only started this past spring, confrontation over this is nerve-racking at best.) My mother, on the other hand, is a rock and has even said that homeschooling would probably have been a *much* better situation for me. (I agreed, by the way. LOL)
With my son, I am not a true unschooler. I probably will never be, due to the need to avoid custody complaints, but I have probably moved more toward unschooling than anything else. I would say it was laziness on my part since I won't put the day's activities on a little sheet and check them off as I go, but my son really likes learning, just on his own terms - he just swallows information. It's a little tough making sure he has access to the information he wants when he wants it (sometimes a trip to the library has to occur on the following day instead) but otherwise it is going swimmingly. He just wants to do it on his own time and in his own way. He doesn't want any instructions, etc. He says that he can read the directions and that he will ask if he has any questions. Surprisingly enough, he manages his time much better than when I "scheduled" his activities. So... he works at his own pace, skips the busy work and moves to the next level. If he has problems, which happily is a rare occurance, we go back and "fix" the hole. He chooses books, workbooks, even no books, whatever he finds interesting. I have to admit, he chooses a lot of things that I think are too difficult still, but he seems quite happy and challenged. When he has picked something too hard, he wrinkles his nose, comments to me and puts it away. Sometimes he gets something else immediately, sometimes he plays for a while, but I have yet to see him not go back to that item at some point. It's like he is testing himself against that particular thing, and when it is no longer frustratingly difficult, he picks it back up.
He is quite good choosing his snacks as well. There are some health concerns which partially limit what can be in the house, but for the most part the boys will choose healthy snacks. We do have a problem at the grandparents' home, but the eating habits there are extremely poor, resulting in barely-managed diabetes, obesity, digestive problems and (probably) heart issues. Unfortunately those habits are being picked up by the younger two and steering them toward a snack that won't make them ill later is becoming increasingly complex. I can ensure there are good choices available, but sitting with grandpa "vegging out" on TV and inappropriate movies (nightmares) and scarfing down an entire bag of potato chips is becoming all too common. The fact that the kid wakes up screaming from nightmares most nights and diahrrea from the grease/oil in the chips doesn't seem to make an impression. The little ones are 1 and 3, by the way, so they don't understand why they are sick for hours after they eat. (It would be extremely difficult to keep the kids away from that house as their father lives with his parents.)
Are there any suggestions for dealing with the respective grandparents on either the education or health issues?
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I was not raised in an unschool environment in the least, so the concept of unforced learning was shocking, but welcome. (It did take a bit to stop looking quite so wide-eyed at the thought.) School and "fitting in" were really pushed when I was younger - Unfortunately I rarely fit in, didn't know how and was furious that I had to act like someone else to have "friends." Of course, insecurity and shyness played a big part, but I do have one redeeming (???) quality - Instantaneous Rebellion... I have a smart mouth, I loathe taking orders (especially frivolous ones) and I can rebel in the wink of an eye. Hence, if I put a little effort into it, I can usually "tick off" a person in a short amount of time. LOL! (It is fairly recent that I **TRULY** realized, "Who honestly wants to be a carbon copy of every neighbor they have? What is so wrong with *not* being exactly like everyone else?")
I also absolutely HATED school for the most part and my fondest wish was to land on a deserted island somewhere with a ton of books and an open grocery store (well, and horses, in spades!) I love to read, always have, since I was 3 or 4. I am constantly going after books and getting sidetracked researching something that has caught my interest.
My boys are still fairly young but seem to be following the same path of curiosity, although they are more social than I was (maybe they get that from their father?) We are pretty relaxed; I don't push them very often with their studies, usually only when I am nervous about an upcoming possible conflict with a family member over education decisions - my ex-MIL is a teacher and principal who "wants" him back in school this fall. (Having only started this past spring, confrontation over this is nerve-racking at best.) My mother, on the other hand, is a rock and has even said that homeschooling would probably have been a *much* better situation for me. (I agreed, by the way. LOL)
With my son, I am not a true unschooler. I probably will never be, due to the need to avoid custody complaints, but I have probably moved more toward unschooling than anything else. I would say it was laziness on my part since I won't put the day's activities on a little sheet and check them off as I go, but my son really likes learning, just on his own terms - he just swallows information. It's a little tough making sure he has access to the information he wants when he wants it (sometimes a trip to the library has to occur on the following day instead) but otherwise it is going swimmingly. He just wants to do it on his own time and in his own way. He doesn't want any instructions, etc. He says that he can read the directions and that he will ask if he has any questions. Surprisingly enough, he manages his time much better than when I "scheduled" his activities. So... he works at his own pace, skips the busy work and moves to the next level. If he has problems, which happily is a rare occurance, we go back and "fix" the hole. He chooses books, workbooks, even no books, whatever he finds interesting. I have to admit, he chooses a lot of things that I think are too difficult still, but he seems quite happy and challenged. When he has picked something too hard, he wrinkles his nose, comments to me and puts it away. Sometimes he gets something else immediately, sometimes he plays for a while, but I have yet to see him not go back to that item at some point. It's like he is testing himself against that particular thing, and when it is no longer frustratingly difficult, he picks it back up.
He is quite good choosing his snacks as well. There are some health concerns which partially limit what can be in the house, but for the most part the boys will choose healthy snacks. We do have a problem at the grandparents' home, but the eating habits there are extremely poor, resulting in barely-managed diabetes, obesity, digestive problems and (probably) heart issues. Unfortunately those habits are being picked up by the younger two and steering them toward a snack that won't make them ill later is becoming increasingly complex. I can ensure there are good choices available, but sitting with grandpa "vegging out" on TV and inappropriate movies (nightmares) and scarfing down an entire bag of potato chips is becoming all too common. The fact that the kid wakes up screaming from nightmares most nights and diahrrea from the grease/oil in the chips doesn't seem to make an impression. The little ones are 1 and 3, by the way, so they don't understand why they are sick for hours after they eat. (It would be extremely difficult to keep the kids away from that house as their father lives with his parents.)
Are there any suggestions for dealing with the respective grandparents on either the education or health issues?
__________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 7/20/05 10:39:12 AM, leobellalace@... writes:
You don't need to wait for the library to get him information.
He could send notes to his grumpier grandma with links to websites he's
liked, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It's a little tough making sure he has access to the information he wantsUse google!
> when he wants it (sometimes a trip to the library has to occur on the
> following day instead)
>
You don't need to wait for the library to get him information.
He could send notes to his grumpier grandma with links to websites he's
liked, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
the posts first...
Also, I might gently suggest that if things like chips were
available (maybe get some of the baked type - less grease/fat), they
might be less likely to scarf them at grandpa's in such quantities.
I know both my ILs and my family (especially my SIL) have at times
been caught flat footed when my DS would say no thanks to a sweet
treat - he's not limited (except by things like budget, sometimes
stuff just has to wait for the next grocery trip) so he has no need
to go nuts with ice cream or whatever. You don't specify the food
issues so maybe potato chips need to be off limits entirely, in
which case, grandpa needs to know that these foods are *unsafe* for
the kids, not just the usual "they're junk food" type message (which
is so everywhere that it's easy to tune out) but reinforce that for
his dear, precious grandkids, this item can cause (specific, unsafe)
issues.
>on >the
> In a message dated 7/20/05 10:39:12 AM, leobellalace@n... writes:
>
>
> > It's a little tough making sure he has access to the information
>he wants
> > when he wants it (sometimes a trip to the library has to occur
> > following day instead)Hey, you said what I was going to say! Glad I checked the rest of
> >
>
> Use google!
> You don't need to wait for the library to get him information.
>
the posts first...
Also, I might gently suggest that if things like chips were
available (maybe get some of the baked type - less grease/fat), they
might be less likely to scarf them at grandpa's in such quantities.
I know both my ILs and my family (especially my SIL) have at times
been caught flat footed when my DS would say no thanks to a sweet
treat - he's not limited (except by things like budget, sometimes
stuff just has to wait for the next grocery trip) so he has no need
to go nuts with ice cream or whatever. You don't specify the food
issues so maybe potato chips need to be off limits entirely, in
which case, grandpa needs to know that these foods are *unsafe* for
the kids, not just the usual "they're junk food" type message (which
is so everywhere that it's easy to tune out) but reinforce that for
his dear, precious grandkids, this item can cause (specific, unsafe)
issues.
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<Also, I might gently suggest that if things like chips were
available (maybe get some of the baked type - less grease/fat), they
might be less likely to scarf them at grandpa's in such quantities.>>>>
snip
<<<<<his dear, precious grandkids, this item can cause (specific, unsafe)
issues.>>>>
I would take the suggestion even further and, in consultation with the kids
find a chip or chip-like crunchy snack that is not fatty, and buy plenty for
home and enough to send them along when they visit. Include the explanation
about the health issues to grandpa. That way they still get to have the
enjoyable communion of watching a movie and snacking together.
I'm sorry about the nightmares. Are they watching dvd's/videos or broadcast
programs? What Jayn always wants is to fast forward through scary moments.
If Grandpa is not amenable to choosing titles that the kids like better
(again bring some dvd's along), although I would be pretty concerned if he
wasn't, then maybe there are some ways you can support them working through
their fears. Maybe the nightmares are coming from not being allowed to work
through the emotions fully before sleeping.
Jayn likes to watch movies over and over, including the ones with scary or
disturbing moments. One idea might be to ask if the kids wish to see the
same thing again with you there, so that you can talk about some of the
images or ideas that are bothering them. Jayn used to fast forward/skip, or
just listen with covered eyes, or just watch with the sound down, different
parts of films that she can now watch fully without fear. We also have
talked about the tricks of filmmaking, computer generated or miniature
effects, and sometimes looked at the "making of" parts of dvd's - although
she is usually bored pretty fast by those.
Another thing that has helped Jayn, is for me to join in playacting and
fantasy play about scary situations - games that she has instigated -
without negative judgments even if the play seems dark or macabre.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
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available (maybe get some of the baked type - less grease/fat), they
might be less likely to scarf them at grandpa's in such quantities.>>>>
snip
<<<<<his dear, precious grandkids, this item can cause (specific, unsafe)
issues.>>>>
I would take the suggestion even further and, in consultation with the kids
find a chip or chip-like crunchy snack that is not fatty, and buy plenty for
home and enough to send them along when they visit. Include the explanation
about the health issues to grandpa. That way they still get to have the
enjoyable communion of watching a movie and snacking together.
I'm sorry about the nightmares. Are they watching dvd's/videos or broadcast
programs? What Jayn always wants is to fast forward through scary moments.
If Grandpa is not amenable to choosing titles that the kids like better
(again bring some dvd's along), although I would be pretty concerned if he
wasn't, then maybe there are some ways you can support them working through
their fears. Maybe the nightmares are coming from not being allowed to work
through the emotions fully before sleeping.
Jayn likes to watch movies over and over, including the ones with scary or
disturbing moments. One idea might be to ask if the kids wish to see the
same thing again with you there, so that you can talk about some of the
images or ideas that are bothering them. Jayn used to fast forward/skip, or
just listen with covered eyes, or just watch with the sound down, different
parts of films that she can now watch fully without fear. We also have
talked about the tricks of filmmaking, computer generated or miniature
effects, and sometimes looked at the "making of" parts of dvd's - although
she is usually bored pretty fast by those.
Another thing that has helped Jayn, is for me to join in playacting and
fantasy play about scary situations - games that she has instigated -
without negative judgments even if the play seems dark or macabre.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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Betsy Hill
**He chooses books, workbooks, even no books, whatever he finds
interesting. I have to admit, he chooses a lot of things that I think
are too difficult still, but he seems quite happy and challenged.**
That's a useful observation.
I've been thinking a little bit along these lines.
I think when school takes "information" and breaks it down into little
tiny pieces, like a few names or some dates, they peel off almost
everything that is interesting and the facts that are left are very
dull. More complicated stuff is almost always more interesting. Maybe
it isn't surprising that a kid would like complicated or "advanced"
stuff, as long as he had the freedom to slow down, or stop, or get more
information when they became confused or frustrated.
Betsy
interesting. I have to admit, he chooses a lot of things that I think
are too difficult still, but he seems quite happy and challenged.**
That's a useful observation.
I've been thinking a little bit along these lines.
I think when school takes "information" and breaks it down into little
tiny pieces, like a few names or some dates, they peel off almost
everything that is interesting and the facts that are left are very
dull. More complicated stuff is almost always more interesting. Maybe
it isn't surprising that a kid would like complicated or "advanced"
stuff, as long as he had the freedom to slow down, or stop, or get more
information when they became confused or frustrated.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/20/2005 6:36:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dezigna@... writes:
Another thing that has helped Jayn, is for me to join in playacting and
fantasy play about scary situations - games that she has instigated -
without negative judgments even if the play seems dark or macabre.
***************************
Robyn, that is really cool. You're such a good mom! :o)
We have a foster girl (10 years old) who, when she came, seemed to try and
"shock" us by saying she loves movies like Chucky, Friday the 13th, "Freddy
Kruger." Instead of judging, I just said, "Oh?" and let her talk about them.
We've watched scary stuff with her, and realized her and another one of our
kids had a hard time telling the difference between real and pretend.
We had a long talk about how they make the movies, the make-up, the
sets...we even watched a couple of "making of" movies (phantom of the opera, etc) so
they could see all the work that goes into making something seem so real.
WOW...it really helped. Sometimes in a movie they'll ask me "Is this real/"
and I'll let them know it's all pretend, (fiction) or that it's based on a true
story but these are actors totally pretending.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezigna@... writes:
Another thing that has helped Jayn, is for me to join in playacting and
fantasy play about scary situations - games that she has instigated -
without negative judgments even if the play seems dark or macabre.
***************************
Robyn, that is really cool. You're such a good mom! :o)
We have a foster girl (10 years old) who, when she came, seemed to try and
"shock" us by saying she loves movies like Chucky, Friday the 13th, "Freddy
Kruger." Instead of judging, I just said, "Oh?" and let her talk about them.
We've watched scary stuff with her, and realized her and another one of our
kids had a hard time telling the difference between real and pretend.
We had a long talk about how they make the movies, the make-up, the
sets...we even watched a couple of "making of" movies (phantom of the opera, etc) so
they could see all the work that goes into making something seem so real.
WOW...it really helped. Sometimes in a movie they'll ask me "Is this real/"
and I'll let them know it's all pretend, (fiction) or that it's based on a true
story but these are actors totally pretending.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], CelticFrau@a... wrote:
non-fiction, "based on a true story" in DS (7). There are even times,
like when I'm watching a tear jerker movie, that he'll say "It's okay,
it's fiction, they're not really (sad, hurt, whatever)" to comfort me.
And I explain that even though I know it is fiction, thinking about
(whatever) can make me sad.
--Deb
> Sometimes in a movie they'll ask me "Is this real/"I've been enjoying watching the development of understanding fiction,
> and I'll let them know it's all pretend, (fiction) or that it's
>based on a true
> story but these are actors totally pretending.
>
> Nancy B.
>
non-fiction, "based on a true story" in DS (7). There are even times,
like when I'm watching a tear jerker movie, that he'll say "It's okay,
it's fiction, they're not really (sad, hurt, whatever)" to comfort me.
And I explain that even though I know it is fiction, thinking about
(whatever) can make me sad.
--Deb