My Introductions w/ Questions
Jenn
Hello everyone!
I would like to introduce myself and my family. My name is Jenn and I am
a single parent with two children; DD, Madison, who will be 11 next
month and DS, Deon, who is 4. I have been lurking on this list for some
time but there has been a period of time where I wasn't following the
posts so if my questions have been asked before I apologize.
I withdrew my DD from school this past March after being fed up with the
way 5th grade (and her entire academic career in general) was
progressing. She started lying around October about her homework
assignments, saying she didn't have any most nights. Her teacher called
me in November and I discovered she gave homework every night. From that
point on I learned that Madison did not care about school. I was raised
in a family where my own mother overcompensated. Her mother (my Nana)
was very strict: beatings, screaming, strict rules, very strict
upbringing, Catholic school. My mom being the oldest of 5 rebelled at an
early age and I guess figured she would do the opposite with her own
children. The result was just as disastrous, in my opinion, as I was
given no responsibility, no encouragement and therefore, no value.
Further discussions with Madison made me realize I needed to homeschool,
which was something I was researching anyway. Speaking to other
homeschoolers I learned about unschooling. Madison brightened at the
idea of not having to open another text book again. It hadn't dawned on
me, prior to this, that school had squashed the curious little learner
who asked countless questions as a toddler. She started pre-school at
the age of 4, while I went to school and eventually began working
full-time. She never loved elementary school. She preferred the times in
pre-school and kindegarten when she was allowed to play, color and have
fun with her classmates. So we have spent the last 5 months doing
"nothing" (not really nothing but it would look that way to others) and
in the beginning I was nervous. I believe in the approach to unschooling
but my faith is a bit shaky because we are so new to this.
I have always been a strict parent, trying to approach a level of
discipline some where between my mother and Nana, but ways that I am not
proud of have seeped in, such as yelling. I am working hard to control
that, knowing it has nothing to do with the child but my own
frustrations or impatience. I, of course, explain this to them but that
doesn't mean anything to a poor child who has been yelled at. I have
made great strides recently so I am proud of my own learning. So in the
midst of our adjusting to a new way of life, I 've had to deal with some
family members (actually two, my mother and aunt) who ask endless
questions and although I explained unschooling in the beginning, I gave
up and am now just "agreeing" with what they say, or lying to them. For
instance, "How do you know she is learning anything?" "I ask her
questions." I don't want to lie but felt I needed to not have the
emotional interference until I could stand on my own two feet and
proudly declare, "We are a unschooling family and it is best for us."
Other questions I hear are, "What is she learning? How do you know what
subjects to teach? How will you teach Chemistry or Algebra? You need to
teach spelling, writing, grammar. Tape a multiplication chart to her
wall so she can look at it." Here, that will help her learn math.
Eventually she won't even see it anymore.
My mother's questions are easier. She is most likely to one day
understand but my aunt, who is a psychologist and works in the public
school system, is another story. My daughter is overweight and she does
not agree with my allowing the kids to eat what they want, when they are
hungry. She believes that a child can't get what they need nutritionally
because they are too young to make "informed decisions". I know that is
bull. So sorry, this got so long.
What I need are some responses for family's questions that will shut
them up without being rude. :) I am thankful to have found this group
and hope to become involved.
Thank you for listening,
Jenn :)
I would like to introduce myself and my family. My name is Jenn and I am
a single parent with two children; DD, Madison, who will be 11 next
month and DS, Deon, who is 4. I have been lurking on this list for some
time but there has been a period of time where I wasn't following the
posts so if my questions have been asked before I apologize.
I withdrew my DD from school this past March after being fed up with the
way 5th grade (and her entire academic career in general) was
progressing. She started lying around October about her homework
assignments, saying she didn't have any most nights. Her teacher called
me in November and I discovered she gave homework every night. From that
point on I learned that Madison did not care about school. I was raised
in a family where my own mother overcompensated. Her mother (my Nana)
was very strict: beatings, screaming, strict rules, very strict
upbringing, Catholic school. My mom being the oldest of 5 rebelled at an
early age and I guess figured she would do the opposite with her own
children. The result was just as disastrous, in my opinion, as I was
given no responsibility, no encouragement and therefore, no value.
Further discussions with Madison made me realize I needed to homeschool,
which was something I was researching anyway. Speaking to other
homeschoolers I learned about unschooling. Madison brightened at the
idea of not having to open another text book again. It hadn't dawned on
me, prior to this, that school had squashed the curious little learner
who asked countless questions as a toddler. She started pre-school at
the age of 4, while I went to school and eventually began working
full-time. She never loved elementary school. She preferred the times in
pre-school and kindegarten when she was allowed to play, color and have
fun with her classmates. So we have spent the last 5 months doing
"nothing" (not really nothing but it would look that way to others) and
in the beginning I was nervous. I believe in the approach to unschooling
but my faith is a bit shaky because we are so new to this.
I have always been a strict parent, trying to approach a level of
discipline some where between my mother and Nana, but ways that I am not
proud of have seeped in, such as yelling. I am working hard to control
that, knowing it has nothing to do with the child but my own
frustrations or impatience. I, of course, explain this to them but that
doesn't mean anything to a poor child who has been yelled at. I have
made great strides recently so I am proud of my own learning. So in the
midst of our adjusting to a new way of life, I 've had to deal with some
family members (actually two, my mother and aunt) who ask endless
questions and although I explained unschooling in the beginning, I gave
up and am now just "agreeing" with what they say, or lying to them. For
instance, "How do you know she is learning anything?" "I ask her
questions." I don't want to lie but felt I needed to not have the
emotional interference until I could stand on my own two feet and
proudly declare, "We are a unschooling family and it is best for us."
Other questions I hear are, "What is she learning? How do you know what
subjects to teach? How will you teach Chemistry or Algebra? You need to
teach spelling, writing, grammar. Tape a multiplication chart to her
wall so she can look at it." Here, that will help her learn math.
Eventually she won't even see it anymore.
My mother's questions are easier. She is most likely to one day
understand but my aunt, who is a psychologist and works in the public
school system, is another story. My daughter is overweight and she does
not agree with my allowing the kids to eat what they want, when they are
hungry. She believes that a child can't get what they need nutritionally
because they are too young to make "informed decisions". I know that is
bull. So sorry, this got so long.
What I need are some responses for family's questions that will shut
them up without being rude. :) I am thankful to have found this group
and hope to become involved.
Thank you for listening,
Jenn :)
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<I would like to introduce myself and my family. My name is Jenn and I
am a single parent with two children; DD, Madison, who will be 11 next
month and DS, Deon, who is 4. I have been lurking on this list for some
time but there has been a period of time where I wasn't following the
posts so if my questions have been asked before I apologize.>>>>
Welcome Jenn. You have come to the right place.
<<<<< I don't want to lie but felt I needed to not have the
emotional interference until I could stand on my own two feet and
proudly declare, "We are a unschooling family and it is best for us."
Other questions I hear are, "What is she learning? How do you know what
subjects to teach? How will you teach Chemistry or Algebra? You need to
teach spelling, writing, grammar. Tape a multiplication chart to her
wall so she can look at it." Here, that will help her learn math.
Eventually she won't even see it anymore. >>>>>
I absolutely understand the desire to avoid emotional interference (great
phrase!) One of the ways I have dealt with it, and pretty much continue to
deal with it, is not to do school or even school bashing conversations. This
is for my own personal sanity.
I used to immediately end the phone conversation with my mother, who died in
January, and then send her some literature by email. The point for me was
that attempting to argue or persuade only made me feel distraught (too much
baggage) and overly critical of her ignorance. I was engaging in self care
by not allowing someone with a history of dripping tiny slips of poison into
my brain and heart to even begin.
Therefore one of my suggestions is to try to keep most of these
conversations to the phone so that they are simple to end on your terms,
even if it's along the lines of "Oh Deon needs my help, gotta go".
Another suggestion is not to let these folk get past the first question,
"What is she learning?" Immediately jump in with some of her latest
activities focusing on her enjoyment of them with long winded enthusiasm.
Personally I don't find it tough to rave about Jayn, and only restrain
myself amongst other parents because I don't want to bore everyone else who
is likely equally besotted with their own kids. I have no compunction with
Jayn's relatives talking her up at all.
Other people have recommended saying things like, "We're really happy with
how things are going for now, but if we run into problems we'll rethink
then" or similar.
<<<<my aunt, who is a psychologist and works in the public
school system, is another story. My daughter is overweight and she does
not agree with my allowing the kids to eat what they want, when they are
hungry. She believes that a child can't get what they need nutritionally
because they are too young to make "informed decisions". I know that is
bull. >>>
This may sound harsh, but I would limit my (and DD's) contact with someone
so uncongenial for the time being, while certainly remembering that your
aunt means well. It is possible to say things like, "I know you love
Madison. Thanks for your concern." Or even, "That's very interesting. Thank
you for sharing that information."
All the advice in the world is still hot air, unless you choose to implement
it.
Robyn L. Coburn
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am a single parent with two children; DD, Madison, who will be 11 next
month and DS, Deon, who is 4. I have been lurking on this list for some
time but there has been a period of time where I wasn't following the
posts so if my questions have been asked before I apologize.>>>>
Welcome Jenn. You have come to the right place.
<<<<< I don't want to lie but felt I needed to not have the
emotional interference until I could stand on my own two feet and
proudly declare, "We are a unschooling family and it is best for us."
Other questions I hear are, "What is she learning? How do you know what
subjects to teach? How will you teach Chemistry or Algebra? You need to
teach spelling, writing, grammar. Tape a multiplication chart to her
wall so she can look at it." Here, that will help her learn math.
Eventually she won't even see it anymore. >>>>>
I absolutely understand the desire to avoid emotional interference (great
phrase!) One of the ways I have dealt with it, and pretty much continue to
deal with it, is not to do school or even school bashing conversations. This
is for my own personal sanity.
I used to immediately end the phone conversation with my mother, who died in
January, and then send her some literature by email. The point for me was
that attempting to argue or persuade only made me feel distraught (too much
baggage) and overly critical of her ignorance. I was engaging in self care
by not allowing someone with a history of dripping tiny slips of poison into
my brain and heart to even begin.
Therefore one of my suggestions is to try to keep most of these
conversations to the phone so that they are simple to end on your terms,
even if it's along the lines of "Oh Deon needs my help, gotta go".
Another suggestion is not to let these folk get past the first question,
"What is she learning?" Immediately jump in with some of her latest
activities focusing on her enjoyment of them with long winded enthusiasm.
Personally I don't find it tough to rave about Jayn, and only restrain
myself amongst other parents because I don't want to bore everyone else who
is likely equally besotted with their own kids. I have no compunction with
Jayn's relatives talking her up at all.
Other people have recommended saying things like, "We're really happy with
how things are going for now, but if we run into problems we'll rethink
then" or similar.
<<<<my aunt, who is a psychologist and works in the public
school system, is another story. My daughter is overweight and she does
not agree with my allowing the kids to eat what they want, when they are
hungry. She believes that a child can't get what they need nutritionally
because they are too young to make "informed decisions". I know that is
bull. >>>
This may sound harsh, but I would limit my (and DD's) contact with someone
so uncongenial for the time being, while certainly remembering that your
aunt means well. It is possible to say things like, "I know you love
Madison. Thanks for your concern." Or even, "That's very interesting. Thank
you for sharing that information."
All the advice in the world is still hot air, unless you choose to implement
it.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 7/19/2005
Pam Sorooshian
> I have always been a strict parent, trying to approach a level ofMaybe instead of trying to be strict, you could consider taking a
> discipline some where between my mother and Nana,
different lesson from the two of them --- what was missing in both
cases was POSITIVE CONNECTION!!
Read Alfie Kohn's new book, "Unconditional Parenting."
-pam
Emile Snyder
On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 23:24 -0700, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
haven't read any of his others yet so I don't know how much overlap
there is, but this one is focused on reviewing research on the
effectiveness of what he terms "pop behaviorism," summed up as "do this
and you'll get that." He makes a pretty convincing case that trying to
control people's (kids, employees, etc.) behavior using either rewards
or punishments may "work" (obtain compliance) in the short term, but is
ultimately self defeating.
It has given me lots of food for thought, and it might be useful in
helping you think about how to respond to pressure to be more
controlling in your child's life.
luck,
-emile
>I am currently reading a different Kohn book, "Punished by Rewards." I
> > I have always been a strict parent, trying to approach a level of
> > discipline some where between my mother and Nana,
>
> Maybe instead of trying to be strict, you could consider taking a
> different lesson from the two of them --- what was missing in both
> cases was POSITIVE CONNECTION!!
>
> Read Alfie Kohn's new book, "Unconditional Parenting."
> -pam
haven't read any of his others yet so I don't know how much overlap
there is, but this one is focused on reviewing research on the
effectiveness of what he terms "pop behaviorism," summed up as "do this
and you'll get that." He makes a pretty convincing case that trying to
control people's (kids, employees, etc.) behavior using either rewards
or punishments may "work" (obtain compliance) in the short term, but is
ultimately self defeating.
It has given me lots of food for thought, and it might be useful in
helping you think about how to respond to pressure to be more
controlling in your child's life.
luck,
-emile
Jenn
Emile Snyder wrote:
stress Madison and I dealt with during the first half of fifth grade, I
purchased Between Parent and Child, by Dr. Hain G. Gnott and How to Talk
So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Adele Faber & Elaine
Mazlish. I have read the first one so far and it has taught me a lot of
how to talk and not to talk to my kids so that we can share a mutual
respect. I never, consciously, thought I wasn't being respectful so it
hurts to know that I have been harsh with my babies. Thanks again for
the suggestions. :)
Jenn
> On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 23:24 -0700, Pam Sorooshian wrote:Thank you Pan and Emile. I will look into both books. With all the
> >
> > > I have always been a strict parent, trying to approach a level of
> > > discipline some where between my mother and Nana,
> >
> > Maybe instead of trying to be strict, you could consider taking a
> > different lesson from the two of them --- what was missing in both
> > cases was POSITIVE CONNECTION!!
> >
> > Read Alfie Kohn's new book, "Unconditional Parenting."
> > -pam
>
> I am currently reading a different Kohn book, "Punished by Rewards." I
> haven't read any of his others yet so I don't know how much overlap
> there is, but this one is focused on reviewing research on the
> effectiveness of what he terms "pop behaviorism," summed up as "do this
> and you'll get that." He makes a pretty convincing case that trying to
> control people's (kids, employees, etc.) behavior using either rewards
> or punishments may "work" (obtain compliance) in the short term, but is
> ultimately self defeating.
stress Madison and I dealt with during the first half of fifth grade, I
purchased Between Parent and Child, by Dr. Hain G. Gnott and How to Talk
So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Adele Faber & Elaine
Mazlish. I have read the first one so far and it has taught me a lot of
how to talk and not to talk to my kids so that we can share a mutual
respect. I never, consciously, thought I wasn't being respectful so it
hurts to know that I have been harsh with my babies. Thanks again for
the suggestions. :)
Jenn
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Jenn
Robyn Coburn wrote:
Jenn :)
>Welcome Jenn. You have come to the right place.Thank you Robyn! This helps a lot.
>
>Other people have recommended saying things like, "We're really happy with
>how things are going for now, but if we run into problems we'll rethink
>then" or similar.
>
>This may sound harsh, but I would limit my (and DD's) contact with someone
>so uncongenial for the time being, while certainly remembering that your
>aunt means well. It is possible to say things like, "I know you love
>Madison. Thanks for your concern." Or even, "That's very interesting. Thank
>you for sharing that information."
>
Jenn :)
my3sonsinva
Try if they don't ask, don't tell. I would change the subject and
give answers like, "I'll think about that" or "You might be right".
Avoid them if they are constantly negative. Why allow yourself to
be bullied? Don't seek their approval. Accept the fact that you
don't need anyone's approval!! You may not get a lot, even from
other homeschoolers. : )
Blessings,
Barb in VA
"What I need are some responses for family's questions that will shut
them up without being rude. :) I am thankful to have found this group
and hope to become involved.
Thank you for listening,
Jenn :)"
give answers like, "I'll think about that" or "You might be right".
Avoid them if they are constantly negative. Why allow yourself to
be bullied? Don't seek their approval. Accept the fact that you
don't need anyone's approval!! You may not get a lot, even from
other homeschoolers. : )
Blessings,
Barb in VA
"What I need are some responses for family's questions that will shut
them up without being rude. :) I am thankful to have found this group
and hope to become involved.
Thank you for listening,
Jenn :)"