Salamander starr

When someone out of love, concern, and yes even with respect says..."the
only thing I worry about with the babies (meaning my dd6 and ds4) is that
they won't know how to be responsible" how do you respond? Now, my mom
doesn't give me a hard time regarding the lifestyle we have chosen for our
family, she is usually open to my pov even if it is just to agree to
respectfully disagree. However, I found myself having a difficult time
articulating why 1) my two will be just fine despite a lack of randomly
enforced rules (like make your bed when you get up) and 2) I don't want them
to "assimilate" to the world like I found myself doing. I tried to explain
that I want them to grow up questioning and seeking knowledge even when that
wasn't "acceptable" and not to just follow the path of least resistance.

Anyone have a recommendations? I am not even a hard core unschooler...yet.
Just working on getting there. Which brings me to needing a few more post
for other questions....hmmm...I'll have to formulate those.

Amanda, AL

To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
--Oscar Wilde

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-----Original Message-----
From: Salamander starr <salamanderstarr@...>


When someone out of love, concern, and yes even with respect
says..."the
only thing I worry about with the babies (meaning my dd6 and ds4) is
that
they won't know how to be responsible" how do you respond?

-=-=-=-=-

Well, my advice might not be the best here becasue I don't think I need
someone else's approval or interference.

I smile, stick my nose in the air, and say, "Well, the proof will be in
the pudding, won't it?" And walk away.

As the grands get older and older (it happens so fast!), the
grandparents *are* comparing the children. And guess whose kids are
considered the most well-behaved, the most honest, the best-prepared
for the world, the most trust-worthy and the most interesting?

Really, the time keeps flying by faster and faster. If you can keep
yourslef and your own family busy---and keep the extended family at a
bit if a distance, the kids will be grown before you know it!

-=-=-=-=-

However, I found myself having a difficult time
articulating why 1) my two will be just fine despite a lack of randomly
enforced rules (like make your bed when you get up) and 2) I don't want
them
to "assimilate" to the world like I found myself doing. I tried to
explain
that I want them to grow up questioning and seeking knowledge even when
that
wasn't "acceptable" and not to just follow the path of least resistance.

Anyone have a recommendations?
-=-=-=-=-=-

You can certainly collect a bunch of unschooling books and articles and
give them an assignment! <g> AFTER they read all of your books, *then*
they are at least minimally qualified to talk about it.

I told my sisters-in-law one day that *I* had been on both sides of the
fence---as a student, as a parent of a student, and as an unschooling
parent. *They* have only been students and parents of students. They
have absolutely *no* experience or knowledge of unschooling. They are
unqualified to even bring up the subject. I'm very sure they talk about
me behind my back, but my children and I do not have to put up with
them anymore.

~Kelly


Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/20/05 2:58:29 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:


> As the grands get older and older (it happens so fast!), the
> grandparents *are* comparing the children. And guess whose kids are
> considered the most well-behaved, the most honest, the best-prepared
> for the world, the most trust-worthy and the most interesting?
>

**MINE!**

When Keith's parents were here last week, they wanted to go out to dinner and
had said so in advance, but Keith was on liquid diet in preparation for a
medical procedure the next morning.

I asked each of the kids if they'd consider going out with grandma and
grandpa, and that they didn't have to, but I was going to stay home with Keith and
have chicken broth and jello. I had hoped at least two would be willing to
go.

Every one of my kids went. Kirby (18) drove, because their vehicle didn't
hold five.
They had said the kids should pick the restaurant. They chose Twisters, a
mid-priced one, and the very nearest. They had a good time, I heard.

In very many families, I believe, the teen boys would've found excuses to be
gone (and these guys usually ARE gone, so it would've been honest). They
planned around it.

Meanwhile, the other grandkids are completely incommunicado as far as I know.
They don't like their parents anymore, they're troublesome and sneaky and
angry.

Earlier predictions were that those other kids, by virtue of having strict
parents, going to school and going to church, would be "good kids," while ours
were being ruined.


TaDAAAA!

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salamander starr

A

To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
--Oscar Wilde

>
>Well, my advice might not be the best here becasue I don't think I need
>someone else's approval or interference.
>
>I smile, stick my nose in the air, and say, "Well, the proof will be in
>the pudding, won't it?" And walk away.

Yes, well, she's not being critical she's trying to voice her concern and is
genuinely interested in how I see it. I just have a difficult time
articulating.

>As the grands get older and older (it happens so fast!), the
>grandparents *are* comparing the children. And guess whose kids are
>considered the most well-behaved, the most honest, the best-prepared
>for the world, the most trust-worthy and the most interesting?

My mom ( nor my ILs, come to think about it) compare gkids. Of course they
only have my two to compare with one another. :-) But they don't, not in
front of me anyway. Somehow we have managed to cultivate that throughout
the entire extended family.

>Really, the time keeps flying by faster and faster. If you can keep
>yourslef and your own family busy---and keep the extended family at a
>bit if a distance, the kids will be grown before you know it!

My family, for the most part, is wonderful. I wouldn't want to deprive my
children of their companionship. Plus it would be especially hard
considering most of the year we live within walking distance of my ILs and
my ma may be buying a piece of property that connects to ours...keep them
away, yeah right.


>
>Anyone have a recommendations?
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>You can certainly collect a bunch of unschooling books and articles and
>give them an assignment! <g> AFTER they read all of your books, *then*
>they are at least minimally qualified to talk about it.

Yes, that is a good solution, but I have to prepare in advance for that...I
want a quick fix. ;-) No, you're right. I need to do that. I didn't
think about it before because she isn't really pushy about it, I just was
thrown because I couldn't articulate in that specific instance.

Thanks.
A

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kayb85

>
> When someone out of love, concern, and yes even with respect
> says..."the
> only thing I worry about with the babies (meaning my dd6 and ds4) is
> that
> they won't know how to be responsible" how do you respond?
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> Well, my advice might not be the best here becasue I don't think I need
> someone else's approval or interference.
>
> I smile, stick my nose in the air, and say, "Well, the proof will be in
> the pudding, won't it?" And walk away.


I agree with the stick my nose in the air technique when someone is
being rude and condescending. But I think what she's saying is that
they're loving, caring parents who genuinely just don't "get it" and
are trying to be supportive and understanding but are concerned.

My mom is trying to be loving, caring, supportive, and understanding
(she really is a different person now that she's older, doesn't have
any kids living with her, and is on antidepressents. ;). We generally
get along very well, and she for the most part keeps her mouth shut
when I do things she disagrees with.

She is, however, *very* concerned about my kids and unschooling.
Mostly that my just turned 8 year old isn't reading yet. She just
expressed her concern to me again just last week, when she went to the
Harry Potter event at Barnes & Nobles with me and my kids. She saw
that my son was very excited to get the book so that I could read it
to him, but she saw that as a negative, not a positive.

Her argument was this: I did school at home with my now 12 year old
daughter, and taught her how to read when she was 4, and she
absolutely loves reading now. When she was 8, she read all the time.
"But look at Matt, he's not reading at all, and he's eight", she
said. She said "he's eight" in a dramatic whisper, as if it was a
horrible, horrible tragedy that she couldn't bear to voice.

I've explained the unschooling philosophy to her several times. I've
emailed her links to a few of Sandra's articles. Once I took the time
to give a lengthy explanation to a non-unschooling online friend about
unschooling and reading, and I copied and pasted it and sent it to her
with a friendly, "Hey Mom, someone asked me about unschooling and
reading and I know you've expressed concern about that aspect of
unschooling, so I thought you might enjoy the response I gave this
person".

So this time I started to give her the "he'll learn when he's ready"
and "look at all the cool things he IS doing" etc, she interrupted me
and said, "Yes, I know all that, I've heard all those lines before,
and I know you do all kinds of good, interesting things that
contribute to their education. But they NEED phonics and things like
basic math".

All I could do at that point was stand my ground and disagree.

A few days later she stopped by to see Matt's hotwheels set that he
put together. She had gotten it for him for his birthday. While she
was there, I printed out some pages from the journal that I keep of
things my kids learn. I picked some pages that showed some really
cool things about numbers and letters that they learned naturally, on
their own, while doing fun, interesting, non-schooly things. I
thought for SURE she would be impressed at what they're learning and
understand. I asked her today what she thought, and she acted like
she wasn't impressed.

My mother in law is equally concerned, mostly about the reading issue.
People aren't as concerned about Alisha, because she can read. But
the late reading is a huge hurdle for some people.

It would be easier if they were complete jerks who were rude to our
kids and don't care much about them. But when you know that they
genuinely love their grandkids and are truly concerned, it's nice to
at least try to make them understand. I know that if my children
wanted to send my kids to public school and punish them if they didn't
make the honor roll, I wouldn't want them sticking their nose in the
air at me instead of talking it through with me. ;) And I know my mom
does understand and accept more about unschooling than she used to.
Whether or not she ever will completely get it or not remains to be
seen. There comes a point when you just have to accept that they
might never get it, and stand your ground. If they're nice about it,
great. If their concern turns into something not as nice, *then*
stick your nose in the air and say the proof is in the pudding. ;)

Sheila

Betsy Hill

** Her argument was this: I did school at home with my now 12 year old
daughter, and taught her how to read when she was 4, and she
absolutely loves reading now. When she was 8, she read all the time.
"But look at Matt, he's not reading at all, and he's eight", she
said. She said "he's eight" in a dramatic whisper, as if it was a
horrible, horrible tragedy that she couldn't bear to voice.**

My ideas tend to be really flippant, so feel free to ignore them.

What came to mind here, after her dramatic whisper "he's not reading at
all and he's eight", would be to dramatically and cheerfully whisper
back "Yes." "He's really different." "But that's okay."

(But that would probably only work the first time she brought it up, not
the tenth or eleventh time!)

**it's nice to
at least try to make them understand.**

On the late reading thing, I tend to think that even if they understood
they would still worry.

**There comes a point when you just have to accept that they
might never get it, and stand your ground. If they're nice about it,
great. If their concern turns into something not as nice, *then*
stick your nose in the air and say the proof is in the pudding. ;) **

I concur.

YMMV,
Betsy

PS I think some kind of improv class where we role play answering our
critics would be very fun. Like "scenes from a hat" on What's My Line
Anyway.

Robyn Coburn

<<<<<< PS I think some kind of improv class where we role play answering
our critics would be very fun. Like "scenes from a hat" on What's My Line
Anyway.>>>>>

Ooh, ooh! Sounds like a funshop waiting to happen at the next Conference.
Have at it Betsy, I'd come (nerves and all) and I bet James would to.

Robyn L. Coburn

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diana jenner

Betsy Hill wrote:

>PS I think some kind of improv class where we role play answering our
>critics would be very fun. Like "scenes from a hat" on What's My Line
>Anyway.
>
I bet Kelly could figure a way to incorporate this into the Live and
Learn Conference <bwg> This would be veeeeery interesting after a few
rounds in "Margaritaville"!!!

:) diana


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

soggyboysmom

> Betsy Hill wrote:
>
> >PS I think some kind of improv class where we role play answering
>our
> >critics would be very fun. Like "scenes from a hat" on What's My
>Line
> >Anyway.
>
To go way off on a tangent - we (DH, DS and I) are ordering tickets on
Monday (when the box office opens) for a live show in January with
Colin, Brad, and Greg from Who's Line is it Anyway? DH and I have seen
Wayne live and Colin and Brad together and this year, DS is really
into Who's Line (some of the games are great for drive-time and for
waiting for the drive in movie to start - we particularly like two
line vocabulary...)

--Deb