mchl_cnkln

My Ds 12 yp has been in scouts since age 6, he was to go to camp today
and last night well packing he confided to me he was unsure if he
really wanted to go due to much harrassment and teasing. He is a big
guy and very sensitive to other peoples feelings.

Anyhow I e-mailed one of the leaders and she has pleaded with me to
have a sitdown meeting with my son and the other leaders. They wantmy
son to stay on due to his genourosity and kindnes towards the younger
scouts. I know my son if I mention this to him he will want to do it
merely to make the leaders happy.

I feel this will lead to more teasing and harrassment. She is sure it
will not.

The leaders are good people, and i am too familiar with the "boys will
be boys attitude.

What is all of your opinions? Should I suggest he should give it
another try or tell him to throw in the towel? (I'm asking this
because he is totally on the fence and so much like his mother who
doesn't often make up her mind easily alone)

This totally rips at my heart and I have relatives tell me I cannot
protect him from everything forever Well I feel I can try as long as I
am still breathing!! They tell me i'm making him weak oh how I hate
this crap Would totally appreciate any advice from anyone who has been
through this.


Take care

Michele

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jun 19, 2005, at 11:05 PM, mchl_cnkln wrote:

> They wantmy
> son to stay on due to his genourosity and kindnes towards the younger
> scouts.

It sounds like they need a sit down meeting with the teasers and
harassers to talk about how to treat others.

It would be empowering for him to experience that if he doesn't like a
situation that he has more options than to put up with it or quit. That
he can speak up and try to get things changed.

Will their focus be on solving *their* problem, the problem of keeping
your son so he can benefit the troop? Or do they acknowledge that the
harassment is a problem? And what are they planning to do about it? Are
there programs for scout leaders that address that? It's real easy to
say "stop teasing" and think that's enough but then the teasers just
get more subtle. :-/

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/20/2005 12:34:35 AM Central Standard Time,
mchl_cnkln@... writes:

What is all of your opinions? Should I suggest he should give it
another try or tell him to throw in the towel? (I'm asking this
because he is totally on the fence and so much like his mother who
doesn't often make up her mind easily alone)



~~~

They're teasing HIM? Or they tease others and he doesn't like it? It
wasn't clear to me.

I tell ya, it's not uncommon for me or my son or my husband to be getting
ready for something BIG and then right before think, "I don't really want to
go/do." With me it's usually an expression of the overwhelming nature of
getting ready.

With Will it's usually fear of what's going to happen. Fear of the unknown.
We usually help him push through it, because on those occasions where he's
really changed his mind he has regretted it SO much.

The most recent example is regarding rollercoasters. Will is fascinated by
them and loves to build them on the computer. But when he sees one in person
with its really high chain hill and loop d'loop, it totally freaks him out.
He stiffens and clings to me and things are going on in his head and it's a
true fear. He rides the ones that don't go upside down with no problem
whatsoever. He's had plenty of opportunities to ride the big ones, but up until
now he just hasn't been able to. It causes great stress and gnashing of teeth
and he says some really awful things about himself. It's sad. It's
something he really wants to do, but just can't bring himself to do it

Then, on the way home hours later, after we've ridden all but the big ones,
he has more gnashing of teeth and self-loathing because he DIDN'T ride the
big ones while he had the chance.

Last Saturday at Siliver Dollar City, my husband and I coerced him to stay
in line with us on the Powder Keg. This after he had his fear and
self-loathing attack, but expressed that he WANTS to ride it. Told him he could walk
right through the seats and out the other side if he just couldn't sit down.
Half way through the line while he was waivering and hating himself, I just
finally told him he was staying in the line--not mean, not conditioned on
riding--just that he had to stay in the line. And then I encouraged him by saying
"be afraid, but ride it anyway." As the time passed and he saw the way the
train is loaded, etc., he just got through the fear, and by the time he got
to sit down, he wasn't afraid anymore. It was a hump he had to get over; fear
of the unknown. As soon as he KNEW, he wasn't afraid anymore. He rode it
twice. Then he rode Wildfire--the biggest one in the park, and recounted all
the coasters he faced and couldn't ride before--and how that was all in the
past, because now he had conquered his fear of going upside down and up high.

And on the way home, he had no regrets.

I think it's pretty normal to have doubts about something big like a trip
away from home. I'd try to fix something like anticipated bullying, though,
without making my kid a bigger target.

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/20/2005 1:33:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mchl_cnkln@... writes:
> The leaders are good people, and i am too familiar with the "boys will
> be boys attitude.


My son is 7 and just turned WOLF.

I would attempt to meet with the leaders to stop the bullying/teasing.
Without making it worse for your son. Like a meeting that is generic (no names).
Making sure that all the boys understand that it is unacceptable and what it
does to others. That type of thing. If they (leaders) want him to stay in
then they will make it better for him. I see the "boys will be boys" thing too
but it doesn't have to cost someone their enjoyment or contentment. Scouting
should be fun.

If not, find him a new troop/den. He may enjoy that. His closest friends
may be waiting around the corner in another place. If not, maybe he needs a new
thing. Or a break.

Pamela


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mchl_cnkln

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<fetteroll@e...> wrote:
>
> On Jun 19, 2005, at 11:05 PM, mchl_cnkln wrote:
>
> > They wantmy
> > son to stay on due to his genourosity and kindnes towards the younger
> > scouts.
>
> It sounds like they need a sit down meeting with the teasers and
> harassers to talk about how to treat others.

I have known these boys and their parents for years, in some cases
they have learned this from their parents.


>
> It would be empowering for him to experience that if he doesn't like a
> situation that he has more options than to put up with it or quit. That
> he can speak up and try to get things changed.
>
> Will their focus be on solving *their* problem, the problem of keeping
> your son so he can benefit the troop? Or do they acknowledge that the
> harassment is a problem? And what are they planning to do about it?

They feel it is somewhat of a problem. However we should expect a
little jabbing from time to time between boys.



Are
> there programs for scout leaders that address that? It's real easy to
> say "stop teasing" and think that's enough but then the teasers just
> get more subtle. :-/



I don't know of any programs.
That is my biggest fear. They will tease him worse but quieter.

mchl_cnkln

--- In [email protected], tuckervill2@a... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/20/2005 12:34:35 AM Central Standard Time,
> mchl_cnkln@y... writes:
>
> What is all of your opinions? Should I suggest he should give it
> another try or tell him to throw in the towel? (I'm asking this
> because he is totally on the fence and so much like his mother who
> doesn't often make up her mind easily alone)
>
>
>
> ~~~
>
> They're teasing HIM? Or they tease others and he doesn't like it? It
> wasn't clear to me.

Him, and these incidents happened last year at summer camp, he
sometimes holds things in and they build-up and come out all at once.

It was when we were packing he confided a few stories to me. Example,
Last year while at camp, he had gottten his feet wet and his shoes
bled a blueish color onto his socks, he took his wet socks and shoes
off to put by the campfire to dry and some other scout threw them in
the fire claiming they were a "biohazard". And then he earned the
nickname trenchfoot.

At this particular camp the tents are built up on 2 by 4 frames to
keep the rain out, when he entered a tent to hang out with some other
boys One scout demanded he get out because he was exceeding the weight
limit and was sure to bust the floor.(He is about 25 lbs overweight,
according to "charts" he's healthy and it doesn't affect his ability
to do anything so I feel it is no big deal)

And the one that really got me, one of the scouts took his pikachu
pillow, slit it open strung it up to a tree and beat on it.

And the clincher, He got stuck in a tent alone, (2 cots per tent and
an odd number of boys) got frightened in the middle of the night, went
into another tent and slept on the floor when he awoke nearly the
whole group then called him sissy boy.



>
> I tell ya, it's not uncommon for me or my son or my husband to be
getting
> ready for something BIG and then right before think, "I don't
really want to
> go/do." With me it's usually an expression of the overwhelming
nature of
> getting ready.
>
> With Will it's usually fear of what's going to happen. Fear of the
unknown.
> We usually help him push through it, because on those occasions
where he's
> really changed his mind he has regretted it SO much.
>
> The most recent example is regarding rollercoasters. Will is
fascinated by
> them and loves to build them on the computer. But when he sees one
in person
> with its really high chain hill and loop d'loop, it totally freaks
him out.
> He stiffens and clings to me and things are going on in his head and
it's a
> true fear. He rides the ones that don't go upside down with no
problem
> whatsoever. He's had plenty of opportunities to ride the big ones,
but up until
> now he just hasn't been able to. It causes great stress and
gnashing of teeth
> and he says some really awful things about himself. It's sad. It's
> something he really wants to do, but just can't bring himself to do it
>
> Then, on the way home hours later, after we've ridden all but the
big ones,
> he has more gnashing of teeth and self-loathing because he DIDN'T
ride the
> big ones while he had the chance.
>
> Last Saturday at Siliver Dollar City, my husband and I coerced him
to stay
> in line with us on the Powder Keg. This after he had his fear and
> self-loathing attack, but expressed that he WANTS to ride it. Told
him he could walk
> right through the seats and out the other side if he just couldn't
sit down.
> Half way through the line while he was waivering and hating
himself, I just
> finally told him he was staying in the line--not mean, not
conditioned on
> riding--just that he had to stay in the line. And then I
encouraged him by saying
> "be afraid, but ride it anyway." As the time passed and he saw the
way the
> train is loaded, etc., he just got through the fear, and by the
time he got
> to sit down, he wasn't afraid anymore. It was a hump he had to get
over; fear
> of the unknown. As soon as he KNEW, he wasn't afraid anymore. He
rode it
> twice. Then he rode Wildfire--the biggest one in the park, and
recounted all
> the coasters he faced and couldn't ride before--and how that was
all in the
> past, because now he had conquered his fear of going upside down
and up high.
>
> And on the way home, he had no regrets.
>
> I think it's pretty normal to have doubts about something big like a
trip
> away from home. I'd try to fix something like anticipated bullying,
though,
> without making my kid a bigger target.
>
> Karen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/19/2005 11:34:16 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
mchl_cnkln@... writes:

They want my
son to stay on due to his genourosity and kindnes towards the younger
scouts. I know my son if I mention this to him he will want to do it
merely to make the leaders happy.




So they want to use him, because he makes their jobs easier.
His presence makes camp better for OTHER people.

That argument has been used to discourage people from homeschooling, because
their child's sparkly nature or involved mom was good for the classroom.

-=-Should I suggest he should give it
another try or tell him to throw in the towel? -=-

Those aren't the only two choices. You've made it too black and white.
Staying home from one campout doesn't equate to "throwing in the towel."

-=-I have relatives tell me I cannot
protect him from everything forever Well I feel I can try as long as I
am still breathing!! -=-

Maybe think of it as helping him as long as and whenever he wants help.

-=-Would totally appreciate any advice from anyone who has been
through this.-=-

Through... being a mom?
Having a son?
Being bullied by relatives?
Letting a child making his own decisions?

Offer something cool for the two of you to do during the camp, maybe, so
that when people ask why he didn't go he can say "I went to Six Flags..." or "I
was out of town with my mom." That would be a kindness, to give him an
alternate and cool thing so he has something better to say than "The other kids
are mean so I stayed home." And you would have the addition to your
unschooling and interpersonal lives of a cool outing, too.

-=-I feel this will lead to more teasing and harrassment. She is sure it
will not.-=-

She's saying what she thinks will get you to send him to camp.
Why should it be between you and her?
Let your son decide, but offer him something attractive and fun, too.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/20/2005 7:04:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
tuckervill2@... writes:

-=-It was a hump he had to get over; fear of the unknown. -=-


"Had to" is too strong. If he wanted to ride roller coasters he had to get
over it, but refusing to get on isn't clearly "wanting to."

Fear of the unknown is healthy.

-=-I'd try to fix something like anticipated bullying, though,
without making my kid a bigger target.-=-

Which would be less likely to make bullies stop bullying, though: "You
tattled" or "Your mom talked to the leaders and you're a baby"?

Some bullying just needs to be avoided. If bullying could be prevented,
someone would've "fixed" it a long time ago. It's one thing to be vigilant
about bullying in your own home, but to control a boyscout camp from a distance
ain't happenin'.

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/20/2005 10:36:56 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

-=-It was a hump he had to get over; fear of the unknown. -=-


"Had to" is too strong. If he wanted to ride roller coasters he had to get
over it, but refusing to get on isn't clearly "wanting to."

Fear of the unknown is healthy.



~~~

No, I don't mean that I thought he "had to". He "had to" in order to get
what he wanted. Like, in order to get the Otter Pop out of the freezer, I "had
to" open the freezer door.

The hump of fear was in the way, and he'd been trying to get around it and
couldn't and once things reached critical mass and he gained momentum, he did
it. That doesn't mean he didn't WANT to. He clearly WANTED to. Clearly.
Unequivocally wanted to. Over and over again, at many many amusement parks,
over a number of years since he was 3. He wanted to. Feeling fear about it
doesn't mean he didn't want to ride and get over the hump of fear.

Given the choices he had at the time (face the fear and wait in line or hate
himself later on the way home--and I mean serious self-loathing), he "had
to" get over the hump. Not external "had to" that I imposed, but an ordinary
set of circumstances which contained an obstacle that interfered with the
succes of something he wanted to do. We only knew it was a hump after he got
over it. He could have been still terrified on the ride (still on the front
part of the hump) but he wasn't.


~~~~~~~

Which would be less likely to make bullies stop bullying, though: "You
tattled" or "Your mom talked to the leaders and you're a baby"?

Some bullying just needs to be avoided. If bullying could be prevented,
someone would've "fixed" it a long time ago. It's one thing to be vigilant
about bullying in your own home, but to control a boyscout camp from a
distance
ain't happenin'.

~~~~~~~

I never said anything about *how* I would fix it. My options weren't
limited to what you assumed just because I didn't list them.

Karen
www.badchair.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie W

mchl_cnkln wrote:

> My Ds 12 yp has been in scouts since age 6, he was to go to camp today
> and last night well packing he confided to me he was unsure if he
> really wanted to go due to much harrassment and teasing. He is a big
> guy and very sensitive to other peoples feelings.
>
Can he go with the understanding that he can leave whenever he wants?

Julie W

>
>
> In a message dated 6/20/2005 10:36:56 AM Central Standard Time,
> SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> -=-It was a hump he had to get over; fear of the unknown. -=-
>
>
> "Had to" is too strong. If he wanted to ride roller coasters he had
> to get
> over it, but refusing to get on isn't clearly "wanting to."
>
> Fear of the unknown is healthy.
>
>
> ~~~
> tuckervill2@... wrote:


> No, I don't mean that I thought he "had to". He "had to" in order to
> get
> what he wanted. Like, in order to get the Otter Pop out of the
> freezer, I "had
> to" open the freezer door.
>
> The hump of fear was in the way, and he'd been trying to get around it
> and
> couldn't and once things reached critical mass and he gained momentum,
> he did
> it. That doesn't mean he didn't WANT to. He clearly WANTED to.
> Clearly.
> Unequivocally wanted to. Over and over again, at many many amusement
> parks,
> over a number of years since he was 3. He wanted to. Feeling fear
> about it
> doesn't mean he didn't want to ride and get over the hump of fear.
>
> Given the choices he had at the time (face the fear and wait in line
> or hate
> himself later on the way home--and I mean serious self-loathing), he
> "had
> to" get over the hump. Not external "had to" that I imposed, but an
> ordinary
> set of circumstances which contained an obstacle that interfered with
> the
> succes of something he wanted to do. We only knew it was a hump
> after he got
> over it. He could have been still terrified on the ride (still on
> the front
> part of the hump) but he wasn't.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~

Time for the Walt Disney story.
We went to Walt Disney World when Josh was 7. I told my mother it was
too soon because of all of Josh's fears, but she was footing the bill
and he wanted to go and I knew the opportunity might never come again.
(We just HAD to go then because the next year my nephew (who was also
too young) would be in school and God knows they would not take him out
for a week so we could go to WDW in early May.) Josh had fun, I had fun,
but it drove my mother (and my sister) crazy that Josh and my nephew
would not go in any shows (too dark) or any ride that looked too scary.
My poor nephew melted down in the "Honey I shrunk the Kids" playground
when the 1st thing he saw was the 10 foot plastic spider. Josh went
hysterical (screaming and crying---of course we left) while watching the
"famous" nightly fireworks 'cause he thought they were going to hit and
kill us.....even when they did not hit and kill us.
Mostly the boys swam in all the cool pools and looked at stuff.
At that point in Josh's life it also drove me crazy, but I kept my mouth
shut for the most part, and did not force him to do anything he was
afraid of ---unlike my sister.
The day we left Josh said "I can't wait till we come again. Now that I
know what's here I 'll do everything."
~sigh~
At 13 we still have not been back, but he did finally ride a rollar coaster.
I guess my point is I understand Tucker's point about the hump of fear.
She knows how far Josh (and in a way me and my inability to deal with
it) has come in moving past his fear of unfamiliar situations, people,
and places.
Josh has always been afraid and tentative of a lot of things and I'm
really never sure when to push or not. What I do know is that I do not
want him to grow up always looking back, wishing he had tired this or
that, regretting the chances he did not take. He still regrets what he
did not do at WDW.
I do not want his fears to rule his life.
So I encourage him to do things and go places that his first response
might be "I don't want to" (that a fearful "I don't want to" instead of
a " ~meh~ that's not something I like to do") with the understanding
that he can leave or stop whenever he wants to.
Like camp.
He went to camp this summer and had a pretty good time, but he knew I'd
come and get him if he hated it, or the kids were mean, or if there were
bad storms ----(thunderstorms are another fear that can paralyze
him---somedays we do not go places if he even knows that there is a
chance of storms)----which there were, but in the end he made it through
by calling me to check on the warnings and to get radar updates.




Julie W

http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/20/2005 11:17:27 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
tuckervill2@... writes:

Which would be less likely to make bullies stop bullying, though: "You
tattled" or "Your mom talked to the leaders and you're a baby"?

Some bullying just needs to be avoided. If bullying could be prevented,
someone would've "fixed" it a long time ago. It's one thing to be
vigilant
about bullying in your own home, but to control a boyscout camp from a
distance
ain't happenin'.

~~~~~~~

I never said anything about *how* I would fix it. My options weren't
limited to what you assumed just because I didn't list them.
==================================

From the Black Adder episode "Bob":

E: But what about my position, my social life?
W: Very well then. Three other paths are open to you. Three cunning
plans to cure thy ailment.
E: Oh good.
W: The first is simple_._
(http://totse.org/en/ego/science_fiction/ba2-2.html) Kill Bob!
E: Never.
W: Then try the second. Kill your self!
E: Neu. And the third?
W: The third is to ensure that no one else ever knows.
E: Ha, that sounds more like it. How?
W: Kill everybody in the whole world. Ah, ha, ha ...








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On Jun 20, 2005, at 10:09 AM, tuckervill2@... wrote:

> If bullying could be prevented, someone would've "fixed" it a
> long time ago.

If adults are aware and alert to the beginnings of teasing (which I
think that is what this was really about) - they can possibly nip it in
the bud, I think.

One of the best approaches I've seen is to simply remind all the kids
that they can step in and say, "Stop it," if they are uncomfortable
about somebody teasing one of their friends. Lots of times teasing gets
to become the way kids relate - and some kids think it is "just
teasing" and doesn't really mean anything and that the teasing kids are
just "fooling around," and stuff like that. So they ignore it when
somebody is getting teased. But - if a trusted adult whom the kids know
and like will just mention that they've heard there is teasing going on
and that people's feelings are getting hurt and that it is up to them
to create an atmosphere in which teasing isn't the way kids relate to
each other -- that can make a big difference.

Not a big lecture. Not a big huge deal made of it. Talking not to the
teasers, but to the kids who are standing by and letting it go on.
Often they're uncomfortable, too, and it just takes bringing it out
into the open to get them to be willing to say something.

Also - the kid being teased might benefit from a bit of what used to be
known as "assertiveness training" - learning to say, "Don't talk to me
like that anymore, I really don't like it."

Talking to the parents of the teasing kid - that seems unlikely to help
and could make things worse.

-pam

Cally Brown

Does it have to be a stay or go scenario? Can he not just stay away on
days when he doesn't feel up to coping, the days when the minus of the
teasing outweighs the pluses of attending? This could be included in the
discussion with the leaders so they would understand why his attendance
is irregular, and not hassle him about it.

Cally

Elizabeth Hill

**

The day we left Josh said "I can't wait till we come again. Now that I
know what's here I 'll do everything."**

Well, that makes sense. I'm way more afraid of the unknown than of anything else.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/20/2005 3:37:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mchl_cnkln@... writes:
> And the clincher, He got stuck in a tent alone, (2 cots per tent and
> an odd number of boys) got frightened in the middle of the night, went
> into another tent and slept on the floor when he awoke nearly the
> whole group then called him sissy boy.


How awful for him.

That was last years' camp you said? So do these things still go on? If so,
and he agrees to get out-then do it. I highly recommend a new group if he
wants to stay in. Obviously he has held onto these things and it's not cool. I
agree with finding a new thing to do-something fun for him to replace this
camp stuff.

Pamela


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

April M

That's not "just a little teasing", it's downright mean. There is no way I
would be encouraging my kid to subject himself to that kind of behavior
again,,,and there's no excuse that it was allowed to happen in the first
place.

~April
Mom to Kate-18, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-9.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! http://www.artkunst23.com
*Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
http://www.michiganyouththeater.org/
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)










-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of mchl_cnkln
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Boy Scout Trouble


--- In [email protected], tuckervill2@a... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/20/2005 12:34:35 AM Central Standard Time,
> mchl_cnkln@y... writes:
>
> What is all of your opinions? Should I suggest he should give it
> another try or tell him to throw in the towel? (I'm asking this
> because he is totally on the fence and so much like his mother who
> doesn't often make up her mind easily alone)
>
>
>
> ~~~
>
> They're teasing HIM? Or they tease others and he doesn't like it? It
> wasn't clear to me.

Him, and these incidents happened last year at summer camp, he
sometimes holds things in and they build-up and come out all at once.

It was when we were packing he confided a few stories to me. Example,
Last year while at camp, he had gottten his feet wet and his shoes
bled a blueish color onto his socks, he took his wet socks and shoes
off to put by the campfire to dry and some other scout threw them in
the fire claiming they were a "biohazard". And then he earned the
nickname trenchfoot.

At this particular camp the tents are built up on 2 by 4 frames to
keep the rain out, when he entered a tent to hang out with some other
boys One scout demanded he get out because he was exceeding the weight
limit and was sure to bust the floor.(He is about 25 lbs overweight,
according to "charts" he's healthy and it doesn't affect his ability
to do anything so I feel it is no big deal)

And the one that really got me, one of the scouts took his pikachu
pillow, slit it open strung it up to a tree and beat on it.

And the clincher, He got stuck in a tent alone, (2 cots per tent and
an odd number of boys) got frightened in the middle of the night, went
into another tent and slept on the floor when he awoke nearly the
whole group then called him sissy boy.



>
> I tell ya, it's not uncommon for me or my son or my husband to be
getting
> ready for something BIG and then right before think, "I don't
really want to
> go/do." With me it's usually an expression of the overwhelming
nature of
> getting ready.
>
> With Will it's usually fear of what's going to happen. Fear of the
unknown.
> We usually help him push through it, because on those occasions
where he's
> really changed his mind he has regretted it SO much.
>
> The most recent example is regarding rollercoasters. Will is
fascinated by
> them and loves to build them on the computer. But when he sees one
in person
> with its really high chain hill and loop d'loop, it totally freaks
him out.
> He stiffens and clings to me and things are going on in his head and
it's a
> true fear. He rides the ones that don't go upside down with no
problem
> whatsoever. He's had plenty of opportunities to ride the big ones,
but up until
> now he just hasn't been able to. It causes great stress and
gnashing of teeth
> and he says some really awful things about himself. It's sad. It's
> something he really wants to do, but just can't bring himself to do it
>
> Then, on the way home hours later, after we've ridden all but the
big ones,
> he has more gnashing of teeth and self-loathing because he DIDN'T
ride the
> big ones while he had the chance.
>
> Last Saturday at Siliver Dollar City, my husband and I coerced him
to stay
> in line with us on the Powder Keg. This after he had his fear and
> self-loathing attack, but expressed that he WANTS to ride it. Told
him he could walk
> right through the seats and out the other side if he just couldn't
sit down.
> Half way through the line while he was waivering and hating
himself, I just
> finally told him he was staying in the line--not mean, not
conditioned on
> riding--just that he had to stay in the line. And then I
encouraged him by saying
> "be afraid, but ride it anyway." As the time passed and he saw the
way the
> train is loaded, etc., he just got through the fear, and by the
time he got
> to sit down, he wasn't afraid anymore. It was a hump he had to get
over; fear
> of the unknown. As soon as he KNEW, he wasn't afraid anymore. He
rode it
> twice. Then he rode Wildfire--the biggest one in the park, and
recounted all
> the coasters he faced and couldn't ride before--and how that was
all in the
> past, because now he had conquered his fear of going upside down
and up high.
>
> And on the way home, he had no regrets.
>
> I think it's pretty normal to have doubts about something big like a
trip
> away from home. I'd try to fix something like anticipated bullying,
though,
> without making my kid a bigger target.
>
> Karen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-=-he took his wet socks and shoes
off to put by the campfire to dry and some other scout threw them in
the fire claiming they were a "biohazard".

-=-And the one that really got me, one of the scouts took his pikachu
pillow, slit it open strung it up to a tree and beat on it.-=-

Theft or destruction of property, or both.


-=-And then he earned the nickname trenchfoot.-=-





Abuse

--=-He got stuck in a tent alone, (2 cots per tent and
an odd number of boys) -=-

They should've put three in one tent. That's just hateful bad planning.

If that were my kid, I would make a glorious counter-offer and not encourage
him to go at ALL.

Crap like that will stick with a person for life. You're not protecting him
right now if you send him back and it's not just a passing thing.

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/20/2005 12:16:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
jjjwoolfolk@... writes:

Time for the Walt Disney story.


I thought it was going to be the more recent Disney story of a boy who died,
maybe of fright or stress.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie W

>
> >
> > They're teasing HIM? Or they tease others and he doesn't like it? It
> > wasn't clear to me.
>
> Him, and these incidents happened last year at summer camp, he
> sometimes holds things in and they build-up and come out all at once.
>
> It was when we were packing he confided a few stories to me. Example,
> Last year while at camp, he had gottten his feet wet and his shoes
> bled a blueish color onto his socks, he took his wet socks and shoes
> off to put by the campfire to dry and some other scout threw them in
> the fire claiming they were a "biohazard". And then he earned the
> nickname trenchfoot.
>
> At this particular camp the tents are built up on 2 by 4 frames to
> keep the rain out, when he entered a tent to hang out with some other
> boys One scout demanded he get out because he was exceeding the weight
> limit and was sure to bust the floor.(He is about 25 lbs overweight,
> according to "charts" he's healthy and it doesn't affect his ability
> to do anything so I feel it is no big deal)
>
> And the one that really got me, one of the scouts took his pikachu
> pillow, slit it open strung it up to a tree and beat on it.
>
> And the clincher, He got stuck in a tent alone, (2 cots per tent and
> an odd number of boys) got frightened in the middle of the night, went
> into another tent and slept on the floor when he awoke nearly the
> whole group then called him sissy boy.
>
>
Oh Hell NO would I send my kid back to that type of abuse....your poor
boy....unless he really, really wanted to go and felt that he could deal
with it. I'd also try to encourage him to maybe move to a different
troop if possible and try some other type of summer camp.
Sandra is right that type of crap stays with you your whole life.
I was teased horribly by two girls who were supposed to my best friends
(Sue Haag and Vicky Zerillo---see how bad it was, I can even remember
their names and I'm 42) in 7/8th grade. I can still remember how cruel
it was and still have no idea why I never told my parents or one of the
Nuns---I just wanted to be their friend so desperately, but I also
wanted an adult to notice and get me out of it without being shamed by
those girls in the process. When our relationship was good, it was so
much fun, but I never knew when I was going to become the object of
derision and abuse. Sick, huh?
I picked the all girls high school just because neither of them would be
attending there. What really saved me was the fact that we moved and I
was free from even having to see encounter folks who might know them.

As an adult I would walk away from a situation like the one described.



Julie W

http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], "mchl_cnkln"
<mchl_cnkln@y...> wrote:
==Him, and these incidents happened last year at summer camp, he
> sometimes holds things in and they build-up and come out all at once.==

Those are some pretty bad incidents. What can happen in those groups,
too, is that someone like your son is bothered by a few of those
incidents, and his anxiety increases around the group. The group
picks up on that, and starts poking at him more and more. It can fall
into a really bad dynamic, and one that the adults there don't
comprehend at all. The adults continue to see your son as "such a
nice guy," and that exacerbates his role among the kids, too,
especially if the adults try to stick up for him or get the teasing to
stop.

I'm not saying this dynamic definitely *will* happen, but it can. I'm
sure we've all seen it happen at school and at camps in our own
childhoods. Most adults forget about it, I think, but it's there,
under our radar.

If, after you've encouraged him to do something else, he still really
wants to go (I'm doubting it, but who knows), I would make sure he has
an exit plan. A cell phone, an adult there that will call you,
someway to get you there to pick him up.

Peace,
Amy

Pam Sorooshian

On Jun 20, 2005, at 5:59 PM, Julie W wrote:

>>
>>>
>>> They're teasing HIM? Or they tease others and he doesn't like it?
>>> It
>>> wasn't clear to me.
>>
>> Him, and these incidents happened last year at summer camp, he
>> sometimes holds things in and they build-up and come out all at once.

I'm getting confused. (Sorry)

If these happened at summer camp, why would he drop entirely out of Boy
Scouts because of it? These aren't the boys he is with on a regular
basis, right?

I wouldn't send him back to the same summer camp because of the
obviously poor planning and supervision. If he really wants to go to
camp, try another one, I guess.

But - for some reason the original question sounded like it was an
ongoing situation - didn't it refer to talking to the scout leaders
and/or parents, etc?

-pam

mchl_cnkln

--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
>
> On Jun 20, 2005, at 5:59 PM, Julie W wrote:
>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> They're teasing HIM? Or they tease others and he doesn't like
it?
> >>> It
> >>> wasn't clear to me.
> >>
> >> Him, and these incidents happened last year at summer camp, he
> >> sometimes holds things in and they build-up and come out all at once.
>
> I'm getting confused. (Sorry)
>
> If these happened at summer camp, why would he drop entirely out of Boy
> Scouts because of it? These aren't the boys he is with on a regular
> basis, right?


YES


>
> I wouldn't send him back to the same summer camp because of the
> obviously poor planning and supervision. If he really wants to go to
> camp, try another one, I guess.

He's decided to drop out completely


>
> But - for some reason the original question sounded like it was an
> ongoing situation - didn't it refer to talking to the scout leaders
> and/or parents, etc?


It's hot and cold with these kids. Sometimes he comes home so excited
cause they were nice to him, and other times deflated cause they were
mean. Always wanting to go back till this time, I think he finally had
enough.

I am so glad, and I have tried to make this week extra special for
him, bought him an extra jug of gas for his 4-wheeler so he could ride
with the neighbor boy who is his friend thru thick or thin. We are
going to Chuckie cheeses Thursday, we have a ton of free token coupons
of the kool-aid Bursts, He's fishing today with his uncle. He's going
to work with his dad friday then we will go to the drive-in movie to
see Star wars.

I am glad he is done, and on his own terms. I guess I felt I was
overreacting to the incidents due to what some family (mostly in-laws)
said and the one leader I spoke to. However when I told my mom and she
sobbed, I realized helping him get out was the right thing to do.

Thanks for all the advice.

Michele

Julie W

mchl_cnkln wrote:

> However when I told my mom and she
> sobbed, I realized helping him get out was the right thing to do.
>
>
That is just so sweet of your mom. Sometimes grandparents seem to really
be the ones who will give you a hard time about making sure they "sick
with it" and not letting them "be quitters" and all that stuff.


--

Julie W

http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/



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