[email protected]

From the intro to the list's guidelines, where we ask people to read for a
couple of weeks first:

-=-Questioning of deeply-held ideas and beliefs can be very uncomfortable
and sometimes responses to that process can stand in the way of people getting
what they need out of the list. -=-

The following was sent by someone who joined the list just a few days ago,
and so the post was rejected, because I think the feedback might've been really
uncomfortable if addressed to the author. I'm bringing the ideas here,
though, hoping not to cause discomfort (except the healthy kind of discomfort
that comes from looking at our changing ideas).

I don't think this necessarily qualifies as a deeply held idea or belief.
It sounds (from some of the phrasing) like recitation of truisms. I've heard
some of these very same phrases in my life, over the years, from critical
older female relatives and from strangers and in discussions such as these.

*****
Yes,I have some thoughts. The difference between the childless
friends, and people with children who don't want to help clean the
house, especially of their own messes, is that (1) the children benefit
from having a more or less tidy & clean house,and therefore need to do
their little part and (2) they need to see that Mama is not a built-in
servant/slave who comes with the house.

Yes, "force" is such a dirty word. So, let's say that in the long
run, it is a good idea for all members of the household who aren't
wheelchair-bound to be encouraged to clean up messes, do the dishes,
and so on. One more thing: doing it yourself can often be easier than
trying to get all household members to do their share, no doubt about
it. But we do our children no favor by taking on their
responsibilities.
****

"Responsibility" means that someone is answerable (response is the root
word) to another for the completion of that task.

Another couple of ideas about it. There are wheelchair-bound people who are
very capable of washing dishes in their own houses. There are millions of
able-bodied children who are NOT capable yet. Wheelchairs don't make the
difference.

-=-doing it yourself can often be easier than
trying to get all household members to do their share-=-

"Shares" as in equal shares? Assigned shares?

It's a hard idea, to only write and post what we've really, personally
examined and understood at a directly personal level, rather than just repeating
what we were assured was the way things should be.

The writing above would be considered true and good by countless people.
The results are clear around us too. A lot of frustration and resentment are
avoidable. When I was assigning chores, no one was happier and the house
wasn't cleaner.

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler Waynforth

We have a three-story house. The second and third floor (first and
second to the Brit reader) consist of one room each. Yesterday as I
was walking from the first floor (ground floor to the Brit reader)to
the top floor I stepped on a pile of Yu-gi-oh cards in the entrance to
Simon's room. Linnaea had piled them up to look through them while
she and Simon were watching the Empire Strikes Back. I made a note
and, slightly irritated, said that they would get destroyed if they
weren't picked up. I noticed them again later, packed them away in
the bag Simon keeps them in and it was done. No fights, no spats
about who needed to clean them up, 3 minutes work at most and only
that one moment of irritation from me (actually David mentioned it at
one point and I said I'd get them in a minute--so maybe 2 minutes
irritation in total). When I went to cuddle Simon to sleep I noticed
that there were a bunch of beads scattered about the floor and I
thought I'll clean those in the morning. Morning came and as I was
fixing some noodles and parmesan for Simon for lunch he came down and
said he'd cleaned up the beads that were on the floor while he was
waiting for me to come watch the Empire Strikes Back with him. I
didn't ask him. I didn't ask Linnaea. I didn't even mention it.
He's 8. He's never been given chores. Independently he saw something
and did it. It wasn't his responsibility to take care of it. Just as
it wasn't my responsibility to make sure the Yu-Gi-Oh cards didn't get
trashed. But, I didn't want him to be unhappy because they did get
trashed, and that was and is more important than me teaching him a
lesson about taking care of his things.

Schuyler


--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> From the intro to the list's guidelines, where we ask people to read
for a
> couple of weeks first:
>
> -=-Questioning of deeply-held ideas and beliefs can be very
uncomfortable
> and sometimes responses to that process can stand in the way of
people getting
> what they need out of the list. -=-
>
> The following was sent by someone who joined the list just a few
days ago,
> and so the post was rejected, because I think the feedback might've
been really
> uncomfortable if addressed to the author.
> *****
> Yes,I have some thoughts. The difference between the childless
> friends, and people with children who don't want to help clean the
> house, especially of their own messes, is that (1) the children
benefit
> from having a more or less tidy & clean house,and therefore need to do
> their little part and (2) they need to see that Mama is not a built-in
> servant/slave who comes with the house.
>
> Yes, "force" is such a dirty word. So, let's say that in the long
> run, it is a good idea for all members of the household who aren't
> wheelchair-bound to be encouraged to clean up messes, do the dishes,
> and so on. One more thing: doing it yourself can often be easier
than
> trying to get all household members to do their share, no doubt about
> it. But we do our children no favor by taking on their
> responsibilities.
> ****