morality and cooking (and sewing, and the 50's...)
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/2005 2:24:18 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
s.waynforth@... writes:
I looked on ebay.co.uk and there is nothing, except what is advertised
in the U.S. So, maybe people just don't have space in their little
terraces to hold onto patterns?
--------------------------
Honestly, I think part of it is the puritan worth ethic stuff that says it's
virtuous to make your own clothes and clean your own house and plant your
own garden and not to have other people do it, and it's sinful to eat out or buy
pre-packaged foods or not know how to change your own oil.
It's fading out, but the roots run deep. Every once in a while they'll
interview some really old couple about what kept them married 60 years or why
they lived so long or something, and they'll come out with some of those
platitudes. "We only ate out once a year," or "We stayed home and tended our own
garden and minded our own business" kinds of things.
Some of you (maybe all of you) know this, but it's one of my favorite
stories about human nature (or maybe just the nature of twitchy American women).
In the late 50's, early 60's (I(I think back into the 50's) when they first
had the ability to package complete pancake mix, or cake mix, or dry biscuit
mix, so that there were dried eggs and dried milk and encapsulated oil, it just
wasn't selling at the store. People were cooking from scratch rather than
get that stuff. They did market research, when "market research" and applied
psychology were still very new (and not much respected) fields, and
discovered something SO IMPORTANT that it gave a big boost to applied psychology as a
legitimate field.
Women felt guilty, like they weren't really cooking.
So they made the mixes need things they didn't really need. They took OUT
some of the ingredients, and once people had to add three things, they DID
feel like they were cooking. So to this day, cake mixes make you add your own
eggs and oil, not because the technology requires it, but because those sell
way better. (And not any cheaper. <g>)
There are still mixes for corn bread that only need water, and pancakes that
only need water. Maybe a few other things. But I think men buy them. :-)
Not moms, who have a moral duty to cook.
And sew.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
s.waynforth@... writes:
I looked on ebay.co.uk and there is nothing, except what is advertised
in the U.S. So, maybe people just don't have space in their little
terraces to hold onto patterns?
--------------------------
Honestly, I think part of it is the puritan worth ethic stuff that says it's
virtuous to make your own clothes and clean your own house and plant your
own garden and not to have other people do it, and it's sinful to eat out or buy
pre-packaged foods or not know how to change your own oil.
It's fading out, but the roots run deep. Every once in a while they'll
interview some really old couple about what kept them married 60 years or why
they lived so long or something, and they'll come out with some of those
platitudes. "We only ate out once a year," or "We stayed home and tended our own
garden and minded our own business" kinds of things.
Some of you (maybe all of you) know this, but it's one of my favorite
stories about human nature (or maybe just the nature of twitchy American women).
In the late 50's, early 60's (I(I think back into the 50's) when they first
had the ability to package complete pancake mix, or cake mix, or dry biscuit
mix, so that there were dried eggs and dried milk and encapsulated oil, it just
wasn't selling at the store. People were cooking from scratch rather than
get that stuff. They did market research, when "market research" and applied
psychology were still very new (and not much respected) fields, and
discovered something SO IMPORTANT that it gave a big boost to applied psychology as a
legitimate field.
Women felt guilty, like they weren't really cooking.
So they made the mixes need things they didn't really need. They took OUT
some of the ingredients, and once people had to add three things, they DID
feel like they were cooking. So to this day, cake mixes make you add your own
eggs and oil, not because the technology requires it, but because those sell
way better. (And not any cheaper. <g>)
There are still mixes for corn bread that only need water, and pancakes that
only need water. Maybe a few other things. But I think men buy them. :-)
Not moms, who have a moral duty to cook.
And sew.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
beanmommy2
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
I, for one, did *not* know this at all!
I recently skimmed a huge book called The Complete Tightwad Gazette,
and for a while after reading it I felt guilty that I don't do more
cooking from scratch, sewing, etc. And the author had six kids! But
then after a while I got over it. Just because she does it doesn't
mean I have to ...
Jenny
> Some of you (maybe all of you) know this, but it's one of my
favorite
> stories about human nature (or maybe just the nature of twitchy
American women).
> In the late 50's, early 60's (I(I think back into the 50's) when
they first
> had the ability to package complete pancake mix, or cake mix, or
dry biscuit
> mix, so that there were dried eggs and dried milk and encapsulated
oil, it just
> wasn't selling at the store. People were cooking from scratch
rather than
> get that stuff. They did market research, when "market research"
and applied
> psychology were still very new (and not much respected) fields,
and
> discovered something SO IMPORTANT that it gave a big boost to
applied psychology as a
> legitimate field.
>
> Women felt guilty, like they weren't really cooking.
>
> So they made the mixes need things they didn't really need. They
took OUT
> some of the ingredients, and once people had to add three things,
they DID
> feel like they were cooking. So to this day, cake mixes make you
add your own
> eggs and oil, not because the technology requires it, but because
those sell
> way better. (And not any cheaper. <g>)
>
> There are still mixes for corn bread that only need water, and
pancakes that
> only need water. Maybe a few other things. But I think men buy
them. :-)
> Not moms, who have a moral duty to cook.
> And sew.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Jun 4, 2005, at 6:29 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
is one kind that only needs water - Dromedary.
Otherwise, I like extra eggs in cakes - like them to have a hint of
custardy taste in the background. And I like the texture. Softer.
-pam
> There are still mixes for corn bread that only need water, andWater-only mixes are good for camping. Also - gingerbread mix - there
> pancakes that
> only need water. Maybe a few other things. But I think men buy
> them. :-)
is one kind that only needs water - Dromedary.
Otherwise, I like extra eggs in cakes - like them to have a hint of
custardy taste in the background. And I like the texture. Softer.
-pam
Schuyler Waynforth
I don't know, it costs less for me to buy clothes for Linnaea then to
make them (particularly if I factor in the cost of the sewing
machine), maybe it's just good economics and lots of sweatshop labor.
Schuyler
make them (particularly if I factor in the cost of the sewing
machine), maybe it's just good economics and lots of sweatshop labor.
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/4/2005 2:24:18 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> s.waynforth@b... writes:
>
> I looked on ebay.co.uk and there is nothing, except what is advertised
> in the U.S. So, maybe people just don't have space in their little
> terraces to hold onto patterns?
>
>
>
> --------------------------
>
> Honestly, I think part of it is the puritan worth ethic stuff that
says it's
> virtuous to make your own clothes and clean your own house and plant
your
> own garden and not to have other people do it, and it's sinful to
eat out or buy
> pre-packaged foods or not know how to change your own oil.
]
Elizabeth Hill
**
Water-only mixes are good for camping. Also - gingerbread mix - there
is one kind that only needs water - Dromedary.**
There are Krusteaz muffin mixes that don't require adding an egg. When I had an infant in one arm all the time, I made these. (My one-handed egg cracking skills have since improved, but back then the simplicity was a big help.)
Betsy
Water-only mixes are good for camping. Also - gingerbread mix - there
is one kind that only needs water - Dromedary.**
There are Krusteaz muffin mixes that don't require adding an egg. When I had an infant in one arm all the time, I made these. (My one-handed egg cracking skills have since improved, but back then the simplicity was a big help.)
Betsy
Julie W
SandraDodd@... wrote:
I used to feel I needed to make everything from scratch, but I got over it.
--
Julie W
http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I so love mixes that only need water.
>
> There are still mixes for corn bread that only need water, and
> pancakes that
> only need water. Maybe a few other things. But I think men buy
> them. :-)
> Not moms, who have a moral duty to cook.
> And sew.
>
> Sandra
I used to feel I needed to make everything from scratch, but I got over it.
--
Julie W
http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Murphy
<<Honestly, I think part of it is the puritan worth ethic stuff that says it's
virtuous to make your own clothes and clean your own house and plant your
own garden and not to have other people do it, and it's sinful to eat out or buy
pre-packaged foods or not know how to change your own oil.>>
I have to comment on this. I totally agree that we need to eradicate the guilt we may feel for not living up to some false societal standard of womanhood. BUT there are very relevent contemporary reasons to develop homemaking type skills, going way back even before the 50s (try the 1850s) - growing and preserving our own food, saving rainwater, making clothes, fixing machines, home remedies...
I think our whole economy is heading way down in the near future due to the end of cheap oil, global warming, endless war bankrupting the system etc. Among other things, there will probably be a massive re-localizing of resources because peaches from Chile and sneakers from Indonesia are going to be too expensive to ship here. Our own homeschooling includes a lot of skill building in homemaking/homesteading type skills. Or let me rephrase that by saying, I feel the need to learn this stuff and my family sometimes joins me. We've done wild food gathering, pickling, alternative building techniques like cob and super adobe, rainwater collection, wool spinning...
Forget about adding one egg or not to the mix, can you feed your family if the Vons shelves are empty?
I know I may sound like a survivalist, I'm not, in the militerized-super patriot-crazy kind of way. But I do want to prepare my family for the likely lifestyle changes of the future. I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, but read one or more of these articles and see if you might want to rethink the pre-packaged foods habit and inability to change your oil.
The Long Emergency: What's going to happen as we start running out of cheap gas to guzzle?
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/7203633?rnd=1113441525112&has-player=true&version=6.0.10.505
"The end of oil is closer than you think: Oil production could peak next year. Just kiss your lifestyle goodbye"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8608.htm
"Two-thirds of world's resources 'used up'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1447863,00.html
Jennifer
(in Los Angeles, mom to Radhika - just graduated college, and Connor - about to turn 7)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
virtuous to make your own clothes and clean your own house and plant your
own garden and not to have other people do it, and it's sinful to eat out or buy
pre-packaged foods or not know how to change your own oil.>>
I have to comment on this. I totally agree that we need to eradicate the guilt we may feel for not living up to some false societal standard of womanhood. BUT there are very relevent contemporary reasons to develop homemaking type skills, going way back even before the 50s (try the 1850s) - growing and preserving our own food, saving rainwater, making clothes, fixing machines, home remedies...
I think our whole economy is heading way down in the near future due to the end of cheap oil, global warming, endless war bankrupting the system etc. Among other things, there will probably be a massive re-localizing of resources because peaches from Chile and sneakers from Indonesia are going to be too expensive to ship here. Our own homeschooling includes a lot of skill building in homemaking/homesteading type skills. Or let me rephrase that by saying, I feel the need to learn this stuff and my family sometimes joins me. We've done wild food gathering, pickling, alternative building techniques like cob and super adobe, rainwater collection, wool spinning...
Forget about adding one egg or not to the mix, can you feed your family if the Vons shelves are empty?
I know I may sound like a survivalist, I'm not, in the militerized-super patriot-crazy kind of way. But I do want to prepare my family for the likely lifestyle changes of the future. I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, but read one or more of these articles and see if you might want to rethink the pre-packaged foods habit and inability to change your oil.
The Long Emergency: What's going to happen as we start running out of cheap gas to guzzle?
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/7203633?rnd=1113441525112&has-player=true&version=6.0.10.505
"The end of oil is closer than you think: Oil production could peak next year. Just kiss your lifestyle goodbye"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8608.htm
"Two-thirds of world's resources 'used up'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1447863,00.html
Jennifer
(in Los Angeles, mom to Radhika - just graduated college, and Connor - about to turn 7)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/2005 10:09:35 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
truffula_tuft@... writes:
BUT there are very relevent contemporary reasons to develop homemaking type
skills, going way back even before the 50s (try the 1850s) - growing and
preserving our own food, saving rainwater, making clothes, fixing machines, home
remedies...
---------------
Sure there are.
But the idea that it's sin to benefit from the labors of others is not a
good relevant contemporary reasons. Americans are so awash in guilt and shame
that they think it's the way life is everywhere, but there are places where
people live WAY more happily and more simply than we do without feeling guilty
that they aren't in grad school, buying a bigger house, having more money,
getting a new car, nicer cellphone, better sports shoes, nicer seats at the
basketball game.
I can sew well.
We collect rainwater.
I have grown vegetables, but it's not practical without irrigation here.
It's cheaper and more responsible to buy stuff from irrigated fields (or places
where it rains) than to pay for pumped-up water.
-=-I think our whole economy is heading way down in the near future due to
the end of cheap oil, global warming, endless war bankrupting the system etc-=-
Everything is headed up or down. Change is constant.
-=-Forget about adding one egg or not to the mix, can you feed your family
if the Vons shelves are empty?-=-
There are entire regions of the world which become unliveable entirely if
there is no mass transport of food and supplies, starting with Chicago which (I
understand) did not start as a farming town, but a rail town. There are
LOTS and lots of rail towns. There are millions of people living in mountains
and deserts in which no one has ever or could possibly grow enough food even
for a single family. They would have to move nearer to rivers.
-=But I do want to prepare my family for the likely lifestyle changes of the
future. I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, but read one or more of
these articles and see if you might want to rethink the pre-packaged foods
habit and inability to change your oil.-=-
My husband changes our oil and I don't have a pre-packaged food habit. When
my mother-in-law stayed here unexpectedly once (Holly and I were in England
and my inlaws showed up to stay five days--NOT very nice) one of the things
she snorted behind my back about was that I didn't have any pancake mix.
Well I don't USE pancake mix. I have three favorite from-scratch recipes for
pancakes, and no one thought to tell her that. They just went and bought her
some pancake mix so she could think I was a crummy housewife. <g>
If it makes you feel better to think the end is near, you're not alone.
LOTS of people enjoy the adrenaline of fear and emergency. In the 60's we were
assured that the planet could not POSSIBLY sustain the growing population
and that by the 21st century we'd be surviving on pills and rooftop gardens
guarded 24 hours a day. Some people lost a LOT of sleep and wore out their
systems with a lot of worry about that KNOWLEDGE, certain and sure conviction,
that the end was near. The end has been near for at least 2000 years in
Christian, and it creates just more and more guilt and shame. And many of them
WANT the world to end. They fervently desire for Jesus to come and take them
out of the world NOW. Today. Any minute. Same kind of emotional charge,
thinking that something WE do can affect the whole planet right NOW. Today.
Any minute.
That kind of internal turmoil and agitation is not healthy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
truffula_tuft@... writes:
BUT there are very relevent contemporary reasons to develop homemaking type
skills, going way back even before the 50s (try the 1850s) - growing and
preserving our own food, saving rainwater, making clothes, fixing machines, home
remedies...
---------------
Sure there are.
But the idea that it's sin to benefit from the labors of others is not a
good relevant contemporary reasons. Americans are so awash in guilt and shame
that they think it's the way life is everywhere, but there are places where
people live WAY more happily and more simply than we do without feeling guilty
that they aren't in grad school, buying a bigger house, having more money,
getting a new car, nicer cellphone, better sports shoes, nicer seats at the
basketball game.
I can sew well.
We collect rainwater.
I have grown vegetables, but it's not practical without irrigation here.
It's cheaper and more responsible to buy stuff from irrigated fields (or places
where it rains) than to pay for pumped-up water.
-=-I think our whole economy is heading way down in the near future due to
the end of cheap oil, global warming, endless war bankrupting the system etc-=-
Everything is headed up or down. Change is constant.
-=-Forget about adding one egg or not to the mix, can you feed your family
if the Vons shelves are empty?-=-
There are entire regions of the world which become unliveable entirely if
there is no mass transport of food and supplies, starting with Chicago which (I
understand) did not start as a farming town, but a rail town. There are
LOTS and lots of rail towns. There are millions of people living in mountains
and deserts in which no one has ever or could possibly grow enough food even
for a single family. They would have to move nearer to rivers.
-=But I do want to prepare my family for the likely lifestyle changes of the
future. I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, but read one or more of
these articles and see if you might want to rethink the pre-packaged foods
habit and inability to change your oil.-=-
My husband changes our oil and I don't have a pre-packaged food habit. When
my mother-in-law stayed here unexpectedly once (Holly and I were in England
and my inlaws showed up to stay five days--NOT very nice) one of the things
she snorted behind my back about was that I didn't have any pancake mix.
Well I don't USE pancake mix. I have three favorite from-scratch recipes for
pancakes, and no one thought to tell her that. They just went and bought her
some pancake mix so she could think I was a crummy housewife. <g>
If it makes you feel better to think the end is near, you're not alone.
LOTS of people enjoy the adrenaline of fear and emergency. In the 60's we were
assured that the planet could not POSSIBLY sustain the growing population
and that by the 21st century we'd be surviving on pills and rooftop gardens
guarded 24 hours a day. Some people lost a LOT of sleep and wore out their
systems with a lot of worry about that KNOWLEDGE, certain and sure conviction,
that the end was near. The end has been near for at least 2000 years in
Christian, and it creates just more and more guilt and shame. And many of them
WANT the world to end. They fervently desire for Jesus to come and take them
out of the world NOW. Today. Any minute. Same kind of emotional charge,
thinking that something WE do can affect the whole planet right NOW. Today.
Any minute.
That kind of internal turmoil and agitation is not healthy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler Waynforth
Simon and Linnaea both love to gather food. Not because they have any
fear about food being available in some dystopian future, but because
it's fun to go on a walk in the woods and gather wild garlic or to
find the fennel and apple mint growing at the local wildfowl trust and
to make tea or salad from what they found. Fear isn't a great guide to
leading you or your family to exciting places. It makes exploring
more frantic, more desperate than getting a book on bushcraft and
going camping and seeing if you can light a fire without any matches
'cause it's fun ever will.
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], "Jennifer Murphy"
<truffula_tuft@h...> wrote:
system etc. Among other things, there will probably be a massive
re-localizing of resources because peaches from Chile and sneakers
from Indonesia are going to be too expensive to ship here. Our own
homeschooling includes a lot of skill building in
homemaking/homesteading type skills. Or let me rephrase that by
saying, I feel the need to learn this stuff and my family sometimes
joins me. We've done wild food gathering, pickling, alternative
building techniques like cob and super adobe, rainwater collection,
wool spinning...
fear about food being available in some dystopian future, but because
it's fun to go on a walk in the woods and gather wild garlic or to
find the fennel and apple mint growing at the local wildfowl trust and
to make tea or salad from what they found. Fear isn't a great guide to
leading you or your family to exciting places. It makes exploring
more frantic, more desperate than getting a book on bushcraft and
going camping and seeing if you can light a fire without any matches
'cause it's fun ever will.
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], "Jennifer Murphy"
<truffula_tuft@h...> wrote:
>to the end of cheap oil, global warming, endless war bankrupting the
> I think our whole economy is heading way down in the near future due
system etc. Among other things, there will probably be a massive
re-localizing of resources because peaches from Chile and sneakers
from Indonesia are going to be too expensive to ship here. Our own
homeschooling includes a lot of skill building in
homemaking/homesteading type skills. Or let me rephrase that by
saying, I feel the need to learn this stuff and my family sometimes
joins me. We've done wild food gathering, pickling, alternative
building techniques like cob and super adobe, rainwater collection,
wool spinning...
Jennifer Murphy
<<BUT there are very relevent contemporary reasons to develop homemaking
type
skills, going way back even before the 50s (try the 1850s) - growing and
preserving our own food, saving rainwater, making clothes, fixing machines,
home
remedies...
Sandra wrote:
<<Sure there are.
But the idea that it's sin to benefit from the labors of others is not a
good relevant contemporary reasons. >>
I completely agree. Though there is a gray area when it comes to stuff like
chocolate harvested by child slave labor in Sierra Leone, or sweatshop made
clothing. I don't hold with the concept of sin but I think awareness is very
important. Though one can never be totally PC, I think we should develop
conscousness about where the stuff we buy comes from, what labor practices
were involved in creating it, and what environmental impact it's production
and distribution have.
<<Americans are so awash in guilt and shame
that they think it's the way life is everywhere, but there are places where
people live WAY more happily and more simply than we do without feeling
guilty
that they aren't in grad school, buying a bigger house, having more money,
getting a new car, nicer cellphone, better sports shoes, nicer seats at the
basketball game.>>
I completely agree. A life focused on consumption is one that offers little
deep contentment. There's always more money to be made to buy more stuff so
you can never stop and smell the roses.
Examining the roots of our personal guilt and shame - or the need for any
self reflection at all - is also rarely acknowledged by our society and
education system.
<<If it makes you feel better to think the end is near, you're not alone.
LOTS of people enjoy the adrenaline of fear and emergency. In the 60's we
were
assured that the planet could not POSSIBLY sustain the growing population
and that by the 21st century we'd be surviving on pills and rooftop gardens
guarded 24 hours a day. Some people lost a LOT of sleep and wore out
their
systems with a lot of worry about that KNOWLEDGE, certain and sure
conviction,
that the end was near. The end has been near for at least 2000 years in
Christian, and it creates just more and more guilt and shame. And many of
them
WANT the world to end. They fervently desire for Jesus to come and take
them
out of the world NOW. Today. Any minute. Same kind of emotional charge,
thinking that something WE do can affect the whole planet right NOW.
Today.
Any minute. >>
I am aware that there's a "rush" to my feeling of emergency. I try not to
get hooked on it or make descisons based in it. I struggle to operate, not
out of fear but out of love and practicality. I often think of the 20/20
hindsight of people who lived through somewhat predictable disasters - the
depression, the holocaust. I'm sure they all had ideas about how they could
have been better prepared. You can be sure that the CEOs of the oil
companies are planning right now for the end of cheap oil. The robber barons
always look ahead to how they can profit from other's misfortune.
Schuyler wrote:
<<Fear isn't a great guide to
leading you or your family to exciting places. It makes exploring
more frantic, more desperate than getting a book on bushcraft and
going camping and seeing if you can light a fire without any matches
'cause it's fun ever will. >>
Yes. Thank you for the reminder.
Jennifer
type
skills, going way back even before the 50s (try the 1850s) - growing and
preserving our own food, saving rainwater, making clothes, fixing machines,
home
remedies...
Sandra wrote:
<<Sure there are.
But the idea that it's sin to benefit from the labors of others is not a
good relevant contemporary reasons. >>
I completely agree. Though there is a gray area when it comes to stuff like
chocolate harvested by child slave labor in Sierra Leone, or sweatshop made
clothing. I don't hold with the concept of sin but I think awareness is very
important. Though one can never be totally PC, I think we should develop
conscousness about where the stuff we buy comes from, what labor practices
were involved in creating it, and what environmental impact it's production
and distribution have.
<<Americans are so awash in guilt and shame
that they think it's the way life is everywhere, but there are places where
people live WAY more happily and more simply than we do without feeling
guilty
that they aren't in grad school, buying a bigger house, having more money,
getting a new car, nicer cellphone, better sports shoes, nicer seats at the
basketball game.>>
I completely agree. A life focused on consumption is one that offers little
deep contentment. There's always more money to be made to buy more stuff so
you can never stop and smell the roses.
Examining the roots of our personal guilt and shame - or the need for any
self reflection at all - is also rarely acknowledged by our society and
education system.
<<If it makes you feel better to think the end is near, you're not alone.
LOTS of people enjoy the adrenaline of fear and emergency. In the 60's we
were
assured that the planet could not POSSIBLY sustain the growing population
and that by the 21st century we'd be surviving on pills and rooftop gardens
guarded 24 hours a day. Some people lost a LOT of sleep and wore out
their
systems with a lot of worry about that KNOWLEDGE, certain and sure
conviction,
that the end was near. The end has been near for at least 2000 years in
Christian, and it creates just more and more guilt and shame. And many of
them
WANT the world to end. They fervently desire for Jesus to come and take
them
out of the world NOW. Today. Any minute. Same kind of emotional charge,
thinking that something WE do can affect the whole planet right NOW.
Today.
Any minute. >>
I am aware that there's a "rush" to my feeling of emergency. I try not to
get hooked on it or make descisons based in it. I struggle to operate, not
out of fear but out of love and practicality. I often think of the 20/20
hindsight of people who lived through somewhat predictable disasters - the
depression, the holocaust. I'm sure they all had ideas about how they could
have been better prepared. You can be sure that the CEOs of the oil
companies are planning right now for the end of cheap oil. The robber barons
always look ahead to how they can profit from other's misfortune.
Schuyler wrote:
<<Fear isn't a great guide to
leading you or your family to exciting places. It makes exploring
more frantic, more desperate than getting a book on bushcraft and
going camping and seeing if you can light a fire without any matches
'cause it's fun ever will. >>
Yes. Thank you for the reminder.
Jennifer
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:22 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Digest Number 5349
There are 20 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: UNSCHOOLING OPPORTUNITY: Mars as big as moon duri...
From: "wifetovegman2002" <wifetovegman2002@...>
2. Re: drugs & school
From: rubyprincesstsg@...
3. morality and cooking (and sewing, and the 50's...)
From: "Jennifer Murphy" <truffula_tuft@...>
4. Re: morality and cooking (and sewing, and the 50's...)
From: SandraDodd@...
5. RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: Ann <ann_mv05@...>
6. RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: "April M" <abmorris23@...>
7. RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: "freeform@..." <freeform@...>
8. Re: morality and cooking (and sewing, and the 50's...)
From: "Schuyler Waynforth" <s.waynforth@...>
9. RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...>
10. Re: Re: Technicolor sweet potatoes was popsicles
From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
11. Oops... RE: UNSCHOOLING OPPORTUNITY: Mars ...
From: Archimedes <Freedom@...>
12. Re: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: Danielle Conger <danielle.conger@...>
13. RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: "Shields" <shields@...>
14. RE: Re: Technicolor sweet potatoes was popsicles
From: "Jordan" <atj090@...>
15. RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: "Jordan" <atj090@...>
16. RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: "freeform@..." <freeform@...>
17. RE: UNSCHOOLING OPPORTUNITY: Mars as big as moon duri...
From: K Krejci <kraekrej@...>
18. RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: K Krejci <kraekrej@...>
19. Re: drugs, drugs drugs
From: "soggyboysmom" <debra.rossing@...>
20. RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
From: "Shields" <shields@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:56:31 -0000
From: "wifetovegman2002" <wifetovegman2002@...>
Subject: Re: UNSCHOOLING OPPORTUNITY: Mars as big as moon duri...
Unfortunately, this happened in 2003, and will not happen this year.
See http://www.snopes.com/science/mars.asp
Fortunately, it happens every 15-17 years, so will happen again in our
lifetimes, so if you missed it then, you can catch the re-runs in 2018 :-)
~Susan (wifeteovegman)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:52:09 EDT
From: rubyprincesstsg@...
Subject: Re: drugs & school
In a message dated 6/4/2005 2:24:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
yoginiballerina@... writes:
hey, except for Ritalin! as a public schooled kid who
took all the drugs I could find just to cope with the
boredom of waiting for high school to be OVER,
Just think, if The State had really
had control of us then, like they were supposed to, I
would have been on Ritalin way back then and never had
a kid!
Anna
Except I don't think ritalin is prescribed for boredom in high school.
I don't think it's for birth control either... You still would have been
on
your own...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 08:57:32 -0700
From: "Jennifer Murphy" <truffula_tuft@...>
Subject: morality and cooking (and sewing, and the 50's...)
<<Honestly, I think part of it is the puritan worth ethic stuff that says
it's
virtuous to make your own clothes and clean your own house and plant your
own garden and not to have other people do it, and it's sinful to eat out or
buy
pre-packaged foods or not know how to change your own oil.>>
I have to comment on this. I totally agree that we need to eradicate the
guilt we may feel for not living up to some false societal standard of
womanhood. BUT there are very relevent contemporary reasons to develop
homemaking type skills, going way back even before the 50s (try the 1850s) -
growing and preserving our own food, saving rainwater, making clothes,
fixing machines, home remedies...
I think our whole economy is heading way down in the near future due to the
end of cheap oil, global warming, endless war bankrupting the system etc.
Among other things, there will probably be a massive re-localizing of
resources because peaches from Chile and sneakers from Indonesia are going
to be too expensive to ship here. Our own homeschooling includes a lot of
skill building in homemaking/homesteading type skills. Or let me rephrase
that by saying, I feel the need to learn this stuff and my family sometimes
joins me. We've done wild food gathering, pickling, alternative building
techniques like cob and super adobe, rainwater collection, wool spinning...
Forget about adding one egg or not to the mix, can you feed your family if
the Vons shelves are empty?
I know I may sound like a survivalist, I'm not, in the militerized-super
patriot-crazy kind of way. But I do want to prepare my family for the likely
lifestyle changes of the future. I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty,
but read one or more of these articles and see if you might want to rethink
the pre-packaged foods habit and inability to change your oil.
The Long Emergency: What's going to happen as we start running out of cheap
gas to guzzle?
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/7203633?rnd=1113441525112&has-player=true&version=6.0.10.505
"The end of oil is closer than you think: Oil production could peak next
year. Just kiss your lifestyle goodbye"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8608.htm
"Two-thirds of world's resources 'used up'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1447863,00.html
Jennifer
(in Los Angeles, mom to Radhika - just graduated college, and Connor - about
to turn 7)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:32:07 EDT
From: SandraDodd@...
Subject: Re: morality and cooking (and sewing, and the 50's...)
In a message dated 6/5/2005 10:09:35 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
truffula_tuft@... writes:
BUT there are very relevent contemporary reasons to develop homemaking type
skills, going way back even before the 50s (try the 1850s) - growing and
preserving our own food, saving rainwater, making clothes, fixing machines,
home
remedies...
---------------
Sure there are.
But the idea that it's sin to benefit from the labors of others is not a
good relevant contemporary reasons. Americans are so awash in guilt and
shame
that they think it's the way life is everywhere, but there are places where
people live WAY more happily and more simply than we do without feeling
guilty
that they aren't in grad school, buying a bigger house, having more money,
getting a new car, nicer cellphone, better sports shoes, nicer seats at the
basketball game.
I can sew well.
We collect rainwater.
I have grown vegetables, but it's not practical without irrigation here.
It's cheaper and more responsible to buy stuff from irrigated fields (or
places
where it rains) than to pay for pumped-up water.
-=-I think our whole economy is heading way down in the near future due to
the end of cheap oil, global warming, endless war bankrupting the system
etc-=-
Everything is headed up or down. Change is constant.
-=-Forget about adding one egg or not to the mix, can you feed your family
if the Vons shelves are empty?-=-
There are entire regions of the world which become unliveable entirely if
there is no mass transport of food and supplies, starting with Chicago which
(I
understand) did not start as a farming town, but a rail town. There are
LOTS and lots of rail towns. There are millions of people living in
mountains
and deserts in which no one has ever or could possibly grow enough food
even
for a single family. They would have to move nearer to rivers.
-=But I do want to prepare my family for the likely lifestyle changes of
the
future. I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, but read one or more of
these articles and see if you might want to rethink the pre-packaged foods
habit and inability to change your oil.-=-
My husband changes our oil and I don't have a pre-packaged food habit.
When
my mother-in-law stayed here unexpectedly once (Holly and I were in England
and my inlaws showed up to stay five days--NOT very nice) one of the things
she snorted behind my back about was that I didn't have any pancake mix.
Well I don't USE pancake mix. I have three favorite from-scratch recipes
for
pancakes, and no one thought to tell her that. They just went and bought
her
some pancake mix so she could think I was a crummy housewife. <g>
If it makes you feel better to think the end is near, you're not alone.
LOTS of people enjoy the adrenaline of fear and emergency. In the 60's we
were
assured that the planet could not POSSIBLY sustain the growing population
and that by the 21st century we'd be surviving on pills and rooftop gardens
guarded 24 hours a day. Some people lost a LOT of sleep and wore out
their
systems with a lot of worry about that KNOWLEDGE, certain and sure
conviction,
that the end was near. The end has been near for at least 2000 years in
Christian, and it creates just more and more guilt and shame. And many of
them
WANT the world to end. They fervently desire for Jesus to come and take
them
out of the world NOW. Today. Any minute. Same kind of emotional charge,
thinking that something WE do can affect the whole planet right NOW.
Today.
Any minute.
That kind of internal turmoil and agitation is not healthy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ann <ann_mv05@...>
Subject: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
**Sandra, who's not above some nighttime pain killers or a shot of
Bailey's or
aspirin/Aleve, and who occasionally chugs a bit of NyQuil and does not
disdain antibiotics, figuring I'd rather live now well than live longer
sicker,
and who will get a BIG headache if morning tea skips a day**
LOL! I am sooo glad to hear someone else say this. Sometimes I think I am
the only unschooling mom I know that has a caffiene addiction (coffee in my
case), is pleased to find a doctor that will often call in a prescription I
know I need without having to see him. I also use nyquil as it will cure 90%
of what ails me and I will add alka-seltzer to that list. A good red wine
soothes my soul more than anything 'healthy' or 'organic' ever could. I
have many friends that won't do anything but 'natural' remedies, and I've
tried some of their recommendations for me at various times, but no, what I
prefer are drugs. My kids won't be signing any drug free pledges either. I
have a son who is a cancer survivor and drugs saved his life. Kids will
avoid stuff that is harmful if they value themselves, their health , their
well-being. Pledges don't do that, if anything they set up something to
rebel against.
Ann
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:06:38 -0400
From: "April M" <abmorris23@...>
Subject: RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
Oh, you're not alone Ann! I need my coffee in the morning and my diet cola
in the afternoon! (how do you like that? two evils in one, caffeine and
artificial sweetener!) I dispense Nyquil to my family as needed...but
unfortunately, I can't take Nyquil or the wine...I'll end up in the hospital
with a horrible reaction (bright red skin and itchy, swelling and difficulty
breathing)...and boy do I miss a nice glass of wine or a good beer!! I
never drank much...probably less than once a week....the reaction gradually
grew worse over the years until I had a very scary New Years after one small
glass of Champagne a few years back. Anyone ever hear of such a reaction?
I've tried to look it up and I can't seem to get much. The 'experts' say
there isn't an allergy to alcohol and it doesn't seem matter what kind it
is...
~April
Mom to Kate-18, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-9.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! http://www.artkunst23.com
*Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
http://www.michiganyouththeater.org/
"What one knows is, in youth, of little moment; they know enough who know
how to learn."
Henry Brooks Adams (1838-1918)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Ann
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 12:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] RE: drugs, drugs drugs
**Sandra, who's not above some nighttime pain killers or a shot of
Bailey's or
aspirin/Aleve, and who occasionally chugs a bit of NyQuil and does not
disdain antibiotics, figuring I'd rather live now well than live longer
sicker,
and who will get a BIG headache if morning tea skips a day**
LOL! I am sooo glad to hear someone else say this. Sometimes I think I
am the only unschooling mom I know that has a caffiene addiction (coffee in
my case), is pleased to find a doctor that will often call in a prescription
I know I need without having to see him. I also use nyquil as it will cure
90% of what ails me and I will add alka-seltzer to that list. A good red
wine soothes my soul more than anything 'healthy' or 'organic' ever could.
I have many friends that won't do anything but 'natural' remedies, and I've
tried some of their recommendations for me at various times, but no, what I
prefer are drugs. My kids won't be signing any drug free pledges either. I
have a son who is a cancer survivor and drugs saved his life. Kids will
avoid stuff that is harmful if they value themselves, their health , their
well-being. Pledges don't do that, if anything they set up something to
rebel against.
Ann
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:30:05 GMT
From: "freeform@..." <freeform@...>
Subject: RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
I have contemplated creating a blog just to chronicle my search for a good
cup of coffee in Kansas City... just not happening. The people I work with
laugh at me and the coffee thing, but they drink the brown water from the
dining room. I need my coffee... I miss Peet's.
I also carry Fioricet for mihgraines and take them whenever my head starts
to hurt - I'd rather treat something that would have gone away by itself
than risk a full-blown migraine - and I encourage my daughter to take
pseudoephedrine and chlorpheniramine for a stuffy nose or allergy symptoms
(and I take them myself). When I was a kid, the medicine cabinet was
sacrosanct, but Rain knows what to take for various things and does so...
she reads labels more carefully than I do, and there's never been a
problem... and this has been going on for years.
Dar
-- "April M" <abmorris23@...> wrote:
Oh, you're not alone Ann! I need my coffee in the morning and my diet cola
in the afternoon! (how do you like that? two evils in one, caffeine and
artificial sweetener!)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:20:22 -0000
From: "Schuyler Waynforth" <s.waynforth@...>
Subject: Re: morality and cooking (and sewing, and the 50's...)
Simon and Linnaea both love to gather food. Not because they have any
fear about food being available in some dystopian future, but because
it's fun to go on a walk in the woods and gather wild garlic or to
find the fennel and apple mint growing at the local wildfowl trust and
to make tea or salad from what they found. Fear isn't a great guide to
leading you or your family to exciting places. It makes exploring
more frantic, more desperate than getting a book on bushcraft and
going camping and seeing if you can light a fire without any matches
'cause it's fun ever will.
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], "Jennifer Murphy"
<truffula_tuft@h...> wrote:
>
> I think our whole economy is heading way down in the near future due
to the end of cheap oil, global warming, endless war bankrupting the
system etc. Among other things, there will probably be a massive
re-localizing of resources because peaches from Chile and sneakers
from Indonesia are going to be too expensive to ship here. Our own
homeschooling includes a lot of skill building in
homemaking/homesteading type skills. Or let me rephrase that by
saying, I feel the need to learn this stuff and my family sometimes
joins me. We've done wild food gathering, pickling, alternative
building techniques like cob and super adobe, rainwater collection,
wool spinning...
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:28:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...>
Subject: RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
the reaction gradually grew worse over the years until I had a very scary
New Years after one small glass of Champagne a few years back. Anyone ever
hear of such a reaction? I've tried to look it up and I can't seem to get
much. The 'experts' say there isn't an allergy to alcohol and it doesn't
seem matter what kind it is...
~April
******
My husband Gary is allergic to alcohol, so we avoid nyquil (or any medicine
containing alcohol) and he's not had a drink of alcohol since his teens,
when he discovered wine caused a reaction. In his case, it results in
asthma-like symptoms, difficulty breathing, his throat swells and he feels
nauseous. He also has the same allergic reaction to bananas (tho he can eat
banana muffins/bread) and all melons. I suspect it's something to do with
the molds or fermentation process.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:35:11 -0700
From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Technicolor sweet potatoes was popsicles
>>>>>>>>>>who prefers sweet potatoes with marshmallow topping, like a good
American.>>>>>>>>
Some of us prefer our sweet potatoes sans marshmallow. Or maybe I'm just a
bad American <g>.
I like to cut them in chunks, toss with good oil, maybe a bit of salt or
herbs, and bake in an open pan at 450. Good with onion and regular potatoes
mixed in too.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 08:31:39 -0400
From: Archimedes <Freedom@...>
Subject: Oops... RE: UNSCHOOLING OPPORTUNITY: Mars ...
I should know better than to forward along info I haven't checked.
The message about Mars was true, but as it turns out, it's also old news by
about two years.
The chance of a lifetime to see Mars close up WAS true, back in August of
2003. My apologies for telling you it would be *this* August.
Bleahhh...
Fortunately, there are other things to learn about in the skies for your
kids this summer, and of course telescopes are still a great educational
tool.
skypub.com and astronomy.com both have lots of great announcements and
calendars for things to watch.
-- M
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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 15:43:03 -0400
From: Danielle Conger <danielle.conger@...>
Subject: Re: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
freeform@... wrote:
>I have contemplated creating a blog just to chronicle my search for a good
cup of coffee in Kansas City... just not happening. The people I work with
laugh at me and the coffee thing, but they drink the brown water from the
dining room. I need my coffee... I miss Peet's.
>
>
It's a ridiculous splurge, but we have Peet's shipped every month--we're
Peetniks. :) Definitely worth it for coffee lovers, and as vices go,
it's relatively harmless.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (7), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:28:40 -0700
From: "Shields" <shields@...>
Subject: RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
We have Peet's shipped regularly too! When we switched to decaf several
years ago Peet's was the best and I just love it. We just had a short trip
to the Bay Area and my dh asked if I wanted to stop at Starbuck's. I said
no way, we're in Peet's territory now!
Kristin
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Danielle Conger
It's a ridiculous splurge, but we have Peet's shipped every month--we're
Peetniks. :) Definitely worth it for coffee lovers, and as vices go,
it's relatively harmless.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (7), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:14:20 +0900
From: "Jordan" <atj090@...>
Subject: RE: Re: Technicolor sweet potatoes was popsicles
Hey, if I use the Japanese purple ones and the regular orange ones from the
commissary, I CAN have a pan of Technicolor sweet potatoes! If I could get
Yukon Gold or baby red, the pan would be even prettier! I'll try it!
Tami, who will be roasting said potatoes outside on the grill, as a tropical
climate without central air conditioning makes a 450 oven just plain nuts!
>>>I like to cut them in chunks, toss with good oil, maybe a bit of salt or
herbs, and bake in an open pan at 450. Good with onion and regular potatoes
mixed in too.<<<
--
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________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:33:55 +0900
From: "Jordan" <atj090@...>
Subject: RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
Okay, I'll take the bait on this one! I admit that I'm Peet's illiterate.
What is it? I get that it's coffee, but is it also a place, like Starbucks?
We are also desperate for good coffee, and if it ships from the west coast,
we might could get it before it gets stale. Is there a particular variety
that is better than the others? Please send info and opinions!
Tami, who is currently making do with Starbucks or Seattle's
Best, which isn't really.
>>>We have Peet's shipped regularly too! When we switched to decaf several
years ago Peet's was the best and I just love it. We just had a short trip
to the Bay Area and my dh asked if I wanted to stop at Starbuck's. I said
no way, we're in Peet's territory now!
Kristin<<<
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:56:40 GMT
From: "freeform@..." <freeform@...>
Subject: RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
www.peets.com
They have stores/cafes, too. They started in Berkeley but there are lots of
stores now, I think throughout California and maybe up to Washington and
Oregon, too.
I like the French Roast, but the house blend isn't bad either. It's very
strong, dark, full-bodied coffee, so if you like the lighter stuff you may
not go for it.
Dar
-- "Jordan" <atj090@...> wrote:
Okay, I'll take the bait on this one! I admit that I'm Peet's illiterate.
What is it? I get that it's coffee, but is it also a place, like Starbucks?
We are also desperate for good coffee, and if it ships from the west coast,
we might could get it before it gets stale. Is there a particular variety
that is better than the others? Please send info and opinions!
Tami, who is currently making do with Starbucks or Seattle's
Best, which isn't really.
>>>We have Peet's shipped regularly too! When we switched to decaf several
years ago Peet's was the best and I just love it. We just had a short trip
to the Bay Area and my dh asked if I wanted to stop at Starbuck's. I said
no way, we're in Peet's territory now!
Kristin<<<
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 6/4/2005
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: K Krejci <kraekrej@...>
Subject: RE: UNSCHOOLING OPPORTUNITY: Mars as big as moon duri...
Thanks for the extra insight! We're pretty lucky to
have a university observatory nearby and they love to
have people come out and peek and learn. We'll take
advantage and pick their brains when October rolls
around!
Kathy
--- Lars Hedbor <lhedbor@...> wrote:
> Unfortunately, the original message is simply in
> error. This *October*,
> Mars will reach opposition with the Earth, and while
> it's a good apparition,
> August 2003 was quite a bit closer.
>
> And, to give you an idea of what all of this means
> in terms of observing
> Mars, I pushed my telescope with a 16" (40 cm) wide
> mirror to several
> hundred power (I don't have my logs in front of me,
> so I'm not sure what the
> exact power was), under PERFECT conditions, and I
> was able to discern a few
> of the most prominent of Mars' features.
>
> Bear in mind, too, that observational astronomy is
> very much a learned skill
> -- so where I could pick out features on Mars, a
> novice stepping to the
> eyepiece for the first time might have seen little
> more than a smeary orange
> disk.
>
> I don't say this to discourage folks from observing
> Mars this fall -- but I
> always hate to see people terribly disappointed when
> they are pumped up by
> claims such as these, only to learn that, as is so
> often the case, there's
> no easy shortcut to the most rewarding of
> experiences.
>
> The availability of Hubble and other very
> high-quality images of a wide
> variety of astronomical objects has made it all too
> common for a first-time
> observer to expect to see what they've found in
> books and magazines. You'll
> see many beautiful things through a telescope, and
> many will become only
> more beautiful as your skills improve, but you'll
> rarely get views that
> compare to the photographs.
>
> Hope this helps -- and please feel free to ask me
> any questions that may
> come up about astronomical matters; I relish the
> experience of seeing people
> come to understand just how incredibly grand our
> universe is, and how much
> they can learn about it with their own eyes.
>
> - Lars D. H. Hedbor
> Oregon City, Oregon
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]
> > [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of
> > SandraDodd@...
> > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 3:55 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] UNSCHOOLING
> OPPORTUNITY: Mars as big
> > as moon duri...
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/4/2005 2:31:24 PM Mountain
> Daylight Time,
> > Freedom@... writes:
> >
> > At a modes At a modest 75-power magnification
> >
> > Mars will look as large as the full moon to the
> naked eye.t 75-power
> > magnification
> >
> > Mars will look as large as the full moon to the
> naked eye.
> >
> > ===========================
> >
> >
> > This is a good math opportunity for any humans,
> unschoolers or not.
> >
> > If it takes a magnification of 75 for Mars to look
> as big as the moon,
> > that's not nearly as big as the moon.
> >
> > Opportunities that are once-in-a-lifetime (and I
> think it's cool; not
> > saying
> > it's not) aren't unschooling opportunities.
> They're once-in-a-lifetime
> > opportunities and those who are interested will be
> interested regardless
> > of their
> > school status.
> >
> >
> > Sandra
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files
> area of this group.
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files
> area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
>
>
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
It's Good 2 B Dog Nutz!
http://www.good2bdognutz.com
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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:47:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: K Krejci <kraekrej@...>
Subject: RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
My personal cure for most illness is Celestial
Seasonings Lemon Zinger Tea (NFI) and Matlock (also
NFI). With enough cable/satellite channels, you can
watch Matlock for at least 8 hours straight. I have
always found that I am eager to get back to life after
a Matlock marathon :)
When allergies get to Ellis, I give him OTC
Benadryl-like stuff at about 1/2 the recommended
dosage. Relieves his symptoms but doesn't make him
foggy so he can still enjoy his day!
The spouse? His preferred cure is to lie in bed
moaning, allowing me to bring him tea, soup, water and
whatever he can imagine (as long as I use a mix!)
Kathy
It's Good 2 B Dog Nutz!
http://www.good2bdognutz.com
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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 00:36:18 -0000
From: "soggyboysmom" <debra.rossing@...>
Subject: Re: drugs, drugs drugs
With medication for ills, as with most stuff, we're firmly in
the "whatever works, works" camp. We've all found some OTC stuff
that works on some things and some homeopathics (and mixed remedies
which are sort of frowned on by some) that work for other things.
The Chestal cough stuff (the kid kind in a honey base) is just
wonderful - we all like it. I know many homepathic remedies would be
difficult for some since they often (generally?) have an alcohol
base. DS (Just turned 7) know which stuff he wants, and when and how
much he should take. He is probably the last one to take anything
since his preferred remedy for most anything is chicken noodle soup
and a long nap in our bed with the remote handy if he wants to watch
TV. I was quite happy to find the homeopathic head cold blend remedy
because most medications (even plain old Tylenol) tend to make me
sleepy - even the non-drowsy stuff! (Of course, more than 2 cups of
anything caffeinated will do the same thing or one strong glass of
wine). So, to find something that clears the symptoms AND allows me
to not burn all my sick days at work is a wonderful thing. DH,
however, he'll pretty much just "tough it out" until either he can't
take it anymore OR until *I* can't take him being sick anymore and
twist his arm (when he's on his 4th or 5th day of moaning and
groaning I admit I can be a pest!).
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 20
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:07:09 -0700
From: "Shields" <shields@...>
Subject: RE: RE: drugs, drugs drugs
We live in Central Oregon and Peet's hasn't come here yet, but they are in
Portland and maybe other areas on the west side of the mountains. My
favorite is the Decaf Special Blend. We have an espresso maker that my dh
inherited from his company and I never really liked the coffee it made until
I tried Peet's. It converted me from a morning tea drinker to a morning
coffee drinker. I still take my tea in the afternoon though!
There was just an article in our paper this morning about Peet's as compared
to Starbucks and how it's a much (!) smaller company. Peet's also gets a
much higher percentage of their revenue from selling beans vs. Starbuck's
which gets the majority from selling drinks in the store.
Kristin
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
freeform@...
www.peets.com
They have stores/cafes, too. They started in Berkeley but there are lots of
stores now, I think throughout California and maybe up to Washington and
Oregon, too.
I like the French Roast, but the house blend isn't bad either. It's very
strong, dark, full-bodied coffee, so if you like the lighter stuff you may
not go for it.
Dar
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soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], "Jennifer Murphy"
<truffula_tuft@h...> wrote:
he got this weekend. He asked for the total and I told him and he
said "I have all the money I need." That about says it all.
lense (the factory seconds are 11"x11" and cost about $5) - DH had a
fire going in the backyard in about 2 seconds flat with leaves,
twigs and some sunlight and his trusty lense, then added a small bit
of branch and we had the beginnings of quite a nice fire.
--Deb
<truffula_tuft@h...> wrote:
>I love a comment DS (now 7) made on contemplating the birthday money
> I completely agree. A life focused on consumption is one that
>offers little
> deep contentment. There's always more money to be made to buy more
>stuff so
> you can never stop and smell the roses.
he got this weekend. He asked for the total and I told him and he
said "I have all the money I need." That about says it all.
>matches
> Schuyler wrote:
> going camping and seeing if you can light a fire without any
> JenniferLOL go to the Edmund Scientific website and pick up a cheap fresnel
>
lense (the factory seconds are 11"x11" and cost about $5) - DH had a
fire going in the backyard in about 2 seconds flat with leaves,
twigs and some sunlight and his trusty lense, then added a small bit
of branch and we had the beginnings of quite a nice fire.
--Deb
Schuyler Waynforth
--- In [email protected], "soggyboysmom"
<debra.rossing@m...> wrote:
Maybe as it's sunny today, I can gather a few twigs and things and we
can give it a go. Of course we don't have a backyard, but maybe the
neighbors won't mind if we light a fire on the front stoop in our
communal, council garden?
Schuyler
<debra.rossing@m...> wrote:
>David keeps promising to start a fire with Simon's magnifying glass.
> >
> > Schuyler wrote:
> > going camping and seeing if you can light a fire without any
> matches
> > Jennifer
> >
> LOL go to the Edmund Scientific website and pick up a cheap fresnel
> lense (the factory seconds are 11"x11" and cost about $5) - DH had a
> fire going in the backyard in about 2 seconds flat with leaves,
> twigs and some sunlight and his trusty lense, then added a small bit
> of branch and we had the beginnings of quite a nice fire.
>
> --Deb
Maybe as it's sunny today, I can gather a few twigs and things and we
can give it a go. Of course we don't have a backyard, but maybe the
neighbors won't mind if we light a fire on the front stoop in our
communal, council garden?
Schuyler
Schuyler Waynforth
David showed Linnaea how to light a card this morning and Linnaea
showed me. So we managed, if not to start a fire, to singe a magazine
subscription offer, a couple of leaves (with Linnaea very carefully
avoiding the greenfly) and we tried, but failed, to do any damage to a
doughnut.
Thanks for reminding me.
Schuyler
showed me. So we managed, if not to start a fire, to singe a magazine
subscription offer, a couple of leaves (with Linnaea very carefully
avoiding the greenfly) and we tried, but failed, to do any damage to a
doughnut.
Thanks for reminding me.
Schuyler
> --- In [email protected], "soggyboysmom"
> <debra.rossing@m...> wrote:
> > >
> > LOL go to the Edmund Scientific website and pick up a cheap fresnel
> > lense (the factory seconds are 11"x11" and cost about $5) - DH had a
> > fire going in the backyard in about 2 seconds flat with leaves,
> > twigs and some sunlight and his trusty lense, then added a small bit
> > of branch and we had the beginnings of quite a nice fire.
> >
> > --Deb
>
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], "Schuyler Waynforth"
<s.waynforth@b...> wrote:
the table reading a magazine article. Now, due to the hip damage, he
sits with one leg at an odd angle. Often, his leg will fall asleep
from that. Well, lense arrives, sunlight streaming through window.
Assorted paper at hand. Cool. Should have plenty of time to get to
sink when it starts to smolder. Right? Wrong!lol. The paper stuff
caught right to flame in a very short time AND DH's leg had gone to
sleep. So, he's got flaming paper stuff in one hand and is trying to
dash across the kitchen to the sink with one semi-numbed leg. Wish I
had seen it!lol (no damage to kitchen or DH BTW) They quickly
decided to move their experiments out to the center of the back yard
(which is mostly dirt).
<s.waynforth@b...> wrote:
> David showed Linnaea how to light a card this morning and Linnaeamagazine
> showed me. So we managed, if not to start a fire, to singe a
> subscription offer, a couple of leaves (with Linnaea very carefullyto a
> avoiding the greenfly) and we tried, but failed, to do any damage
> doughnut.LOL on the donut. When the lense showed up, DH had been sitting at
>
> Thanks for reminding me.
>
> Schuyler
>
the table reading a magazine article. Now, due to the hip damage, he
sits with one leg at an odd angle. Often, his leg will fall asleep
from that. Well, lense arrives, sunlight streaming through window.
Assorted paper at hand. Cool. Should have plenty of time to get to
sink when it starts to smolder. Right? Wrong!lol. The paper stuff
caught right to flame in a very short time AND DH's leg had gone to
sleep. So, he's got flaming paper stuff in one hand and is trying to
dash across the kitchen to the sink with one semi-numbed leg. Wish I
had seen it!lol (no damage to kitchen or DH BTW) They quickly
decided to move their experiments out to the center of the back yard
(which is mostly dirt).
[email protected]
I have a flint and steel kit with the baked-linen starter stuff. I keep
thinking I'll show Marty how to use it and give it to him, because of his
interest in the 19th century and his liklihood to keep it for life without losing
it.
I have it from a woman who made it, who had researched lighting fires
through the ages and had written an article about it that needed a lot of editing.
She asked me to edit. I said I would advise her about making it what would
succeed and be the most useful (she wanted to put it in the SCA's quarterly
journal, Tournaments Illuminated.
I spent a couple of hours with her after I'd read it and marked comments and
I was recommending (VERY enthusiastically, because it was fun information)
that she lean toward the reader, rather than toward the readings she had done,
because at this point she was expert in the subject and could write with her
own voice without quoting others at such length, and write it in a way that
encouraged them to believe they could start fires without matches or lighters,
that THEY could use historical-style kindling and materials.
Well...
In a big move that reinforced my already-growing prejudice against stuffy
cob-up-butt academics, her husband came home from working at his PhD job and
reminded her she had a master's degree and should do this as she would a
dissertation, and rewrote it with her or for her to the point that I couldn't even
WANT to read it, and I'd bet $100 that the first version would have had a
hundred people strike their own sparks literally and a thousand more spark up
figuratively, but that the published version resulted in two fires, a little
smoke, and a lot of wasted paper. Her name would have been on people's lips
with the first writing. With the second, nothing to talk about.
Scholarly references, avoidance of contractions, stilted language and quotes
in Latin don't move people to go out and chop wood and make fire. People
accuse the SCA of being too much fantasy, but we wear REAL clothes, not just
write about them; we make real food, not just redact a few recipes for inedible
college credit. Academia can be QUITE a fantasy world from which some
people never emerge, which some people imagine to be the real world, and for
which compulsory education is their bootcamp. That a few die of hazing and most
are weeded out and sent home in shame as failures is justified because after
13 years (THIRTEEN YEARS) of such boot camp, the academics have identified
their scholarship candidates. The rest failed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thinking I'll show Marty how to use it and give it to him, because of his
interest in the 19th century and his liklihood to keep it for life without losing
it.
I have it from a woman who made it, who had researched lighting fires
through the ages and had written an article about it that needed a lot of editing.
She asked me to edit. I said I would advise her about making it what would
succeed and be the most useful (she wanted to put it in the SCA's quarterly
journal, Tournaments Illuminated.
I spent a couple of hours with her after I'd read it and marked comments and
I was recommending (VERY enthusiastically, because it was fun information)
that she lean toward the reader, rather than toward the readings she had done,
because at this point she was expert in the subject and could write with her
own voice without quoting others at such length, and write it in a way that
encouraged them to believe they could start fires without matches or lighters,
that THEY could use historical-style kindling and materials.
Well...
In a big move that reinforced my already-growing prejudice against stuffy
cob-up-butt academics, her husband came home from working at his PhD job and
reminded her she had a master's degree and should do this as she would a
dissertation, and rewrote it with her or for her to the point that I couldn't even
WANT to read it, and I'd bet $100 that the first version would have had a
hundred people strike their own sparks literally and a thousand more spark up
figuratively, but that the published version resulted in two fires, a little
smoke, and a lot of wasted paper. Her name would have been on people's lips
with the first writing. With the second, nothing to talk about.
Scholarly references, avoidance of contractions, stilted language and quotes
in Latin don't move people to go out and chop wood and make fire. People
accuse the SCA of being too much fantasy, but we wear REAL clothes, not just
write about them; we make real food, not just redact a few recipes for inedible
college credit. Academia can be QUITE a fantasy world from which some
people never emerge, which some people imagine to be the real world, and for
which compulsory education is their bootcamp. That a few die of hazing and most
are weeded out and sent home in shame as failures is justified because after
13 years (THIRTEEN YEARS) of such boot camp, the academics have identified
their scholarship candidates. The rest failed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/7/2005 8:55:38 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
the baked-linen starter stuff.
Charcloth.
Charred linen.
I knew it had a name but I couldn't think of it before.
You cook linen in a little steel can (used to be common, now not), like a
tobacco can until it's charred black.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
the baked-linen starter stuff.
Charcloth.
Charred linen.
I knew it had a name but I couldn't think of it before.
You cook linen in a little steel can (used to be common, now not), like a
tobacco can until it's charred black.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**In a big move that reinforced my already-growing prejudice against
stuffy cob-up-butt academics, her husband came home from working at his
PhD job and reminded her she had a master's degree and should do this as
she would a dissertation, and rewrote it with her or for her to the
point that I couldn't even WANT to read it...**
A couple months ago on NPR, I heard a historian who has been writing popular biography (I think Joseph Ellis) talk about the fact that now some serious historians are writing good biographies designed to reach a wide audience, instead of pompous tomes to impress and stultify their academic peers. There's certainly been an outpouring recently of thick but readable books about the Founding Fathers, and Lewis and Clark and the Roosevelts. Many of them have sold many copies, some of which I think were actually read. Having more people fired up to read about American history is a good thing. (even Martha Stewart would agree with me) <g>
I understand that in the past knowledge was a commodity closely guarded by the local priests and not much shared. But it's kind of sad that there are professors who would prefer that the information they write about stay shrouded in mystery, even after they write it down. Arggghhh.
(Scholarly people leave their "Argggghhhs" out of their sentences. That's more dignified, but less personal and less interesting.)
Betsy
stuffy cob-up-butt academics, her husband came home from working at his
PhD job and reminded her she had a master's degree and should do this as
she would a dissertation, and rewrote it with her or for her to the
point that I couldn't even WANT to read it...**
A couple months ago on NPR, I heard a historian who has been writing popular biography (I think Joseph Ellis) talk about the fact that now some serious historians are writing good biographies designed to reach a wide audience, instead of pompous tomes to impress and stultify their academic peers. There's certainly been an outpouring recently of thick but readable books about the Founding Fathers, and Lewis and Clark and the Roosevelts. Many of them have sold many copies, some of which I think were actually read. Having more people fired up to read about American history is a good thing. (even Martha Stewart would agree with me) <g>
I understand that in the past knowledge was a commodity closely guarded by the local priests and not much shared. But it's kind of sad that there are professors who would prefer that the information they write about stay shrouded in mystery, even after they write it down. Arggghhh.
(Scholarly people leave their "Argggghhhs" out of their sentences. That's more dignified, but less personal and less interesting.)
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/7/2005 9:20:13 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
instead of pompous tomes to impress and stultify their academic peers
I guess that's it. I can't be impressed by people who seek to stultify. <g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
instead of pompous tomes to impress and stultify their academic peers
I guess that's it. I can't be impressed by people who seek to stultify. <g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie W
Schuyler Waynforth wrote:
mirrors to start fires.
Fun stuff.
--
Julie W
http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I just read a good Elizabethan mystery where the culprit was using
> David keeps promising to start a fire with Simon's magnifying glass.
> Maybe as it's sunny today, I can gather a few twigs and things and we
> can give it a go. Of course we don't have a backyard, but maybe the
> neighbors won't mind if we light a fire on the front stoop in our
> communal, council garden?
mirrors to start fires.
Fun stuff.
--
Julie W
http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie W
Elizabeth Hill wrote:
(and ds if he feels like it) and we are really enjoying it. Its about
the New Madrid earthquake and the what was going on in America at the
time. Its written really well and is easy to read aloud.
--
Julie W
http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'm reading "When the Mississippi Ran Backwards" out loud to my husband
>
> A couple months ago on NPR, I heard a historian who has been writing
> popular biography (I think Joseph Ellis) talk about the fact that now
> some serious historians are writing good biographies designed to reach
> a wide audience, instead of pompous tomes to impress and stultify
> their academic peers. There's certainly been an outpouring recently
> of thick but readable books about the Founding Fathers, and Lewis and
> Clark and the Roosevelts. Many of them have sold many copies, some
> of which I think were actually read. Having more people fired up to
> read about American history is a good thing. (even Martha Stewart
> would agree with me) <g>
>
(and ds if he feels like it) and we are really enjoying it. Its about
the New Madrid earthquake and the what was going on in America at the
time. Its written really well and is easy to read aloud.
--
Julie W
http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**I'm reading "When the Mississippi Ran Backwards" out loud to my
husband (and ds if he feels like it) and we are really enjoying it. Its
about the New Madrid earthquake and the what was going on in America at
the time. Its written really well and is easy to read aloud.**
I haven't read it, but my husband likes John McPhee's book The Control
of Nature. About a third of it is about the Army Corps of Engineers
making the Mississippi flood more. (To hear him tell it.)
Betsy
husband (and ds if he feels like it) and we are really enjoying it. Its
about the New Madrid earthquake and the what was going on in America at
the time. Its written really well and is easy to read aloud.**
I haven't read it, but my husband likes John McPhee's book The Control
of Nature. About a third of it is about the Army Corps of Engineers
making the Mississippi flood more. (To hear him tell it.)
Betsy
K Krejci
> I haven't read it, but my husband likes JohnI lived in southern Illinois for a long time and
> McPhee's book The Control
> of Nature. About a third of it is about the Army
> Corps of Engineers
> making the Mississippi flood more. (To hear him
> tell it.)
>
> Betsy
crossed the river to Missouri fairly often. The flood
in 1993 was mind-boggling. To see the exact spot
where I stood for Hands Across America under 12 feet
of water was a real shock to the system. There was a
two-story building with water almost to the roof. I
don't have words to describe it. These were places I
passed often. Suddenly, it wasn't farmland and small
towns. It was a liquid moonscape.
Even after the main floodwater receded, there was at
least six inches on the highway in many places and
water lapping at the edges of the raised roadbeds
where a shoulder might have been at one time. The
levees that crammed a six-mile wide river into a
mile-wide channel only served to keep the water from
finding its way back to the riverbed.
I probably don't know enough about all that the ACofE
has done but their record doesn't appear to be good
when it comes to working with nature. Their modus
operandi seems to be 'force it' - which seems like a
losing proposition when the "opponent" has been
operating this planet for a few million years.
Kathy
It's Good 2 B Dog Nutz!
http://www.good2bdognutz.com
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[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie W <jjjwoolfolk@...>
(and ds if he feels like it) and we are really enjoying it. Its about
the New Madrid earthquake and the what was going on in America at the
time. Its written really well and is easy to read aloud.
-=-=-=-
And for folks unfamiliar with the area---they tawk funny up there!
New Madrid is pronounced New MA-drid.
There's also New BER-lin, Cairo (KAY-ro), and a few others.
~Kelly
From: Julie W <jjjwoolfolk@...>
>I'm reading "When the Mississippi Ran Backwards" out loud to my husband
(and ds if he feels like it) and we are really enjoying it. Its about
the New Madrid earthquake and the what was going on in America at the
time. Its written really well and is easy to read aloud.
-=-=-=-
And for folks unfamiliar with the area---they tawk funny up there!
New Madrid is pronounced New MA-drid.
There's also New BER-lin, Cairo (KAY-ro), and a few others.
~Kelly
K Krejci
--- kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
Creek (buck-up crik), Eldorado (el-doh-RAY-doh) and
Elverado (el-vuh-RAH-doh)
:)
Kathy
It's Good 2 B Dog Nutz!
http://www.good2bdognutz.com
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>And don't forget DuBois (that's DEW-boyz...), Beaucoup
> And for folks unfamiliar with the area---they tawk
> funny up there!
>
> New Madrid is pronounced New MA-drid.
>
> There's also New BER-lin, Cairo (KAY-ro), and a few
> others.
>
Creek (buck-up crik), Eldorado (el-doh-RAY-doh) and
Elverado (el-vuh-RAH-doh)
:)
Kathy
It's Good 2 B Dog Nutz!
http://www.good2bdognutz.com
__________________________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 6/8/2005 10:35:50 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
New Madrid is pronounced New MA-drid.
Madrid, New Mexico is "MA-drid" too.
It was a ghost town from the 40's to the 70's, and when it stirred back up,
old folks had to keep correcting younger ones to name it its name, not to just
read the sign.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
New Madrid is pronounced New MA-drid.
Madrid, New Mexico is "MA-drid" too.
It was a ghost town from the 40's to the 70's, and when it stirred back up,
old folks had to keep correcting younger ones to name it its name, not to just
read the sign.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/8/2005 10:54:36 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
kraekrej@... writes:
Elverado (el-vuh-RAH-doh)
wouldn't that be right though?
Is it a variant of Alvarado which goes RAH on the third syllable?
(Also known, in Texas, as AL vuh RAYdu)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kraekrej@... writes:
Elverado (el-vuh-RAH-doh)
wouldn't that be right though?
Is it a variant of Alvarado which goes RAH on the third syllable?
(Also known, in Texas, as AL vuh RAYdu)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
K Krejci
Oops! I got my RAHs and my RAYs mixed up :) It's
RAY, not RAH and more of a vur than a vuh. Although,
I suppose technically it would be
'el-be(yh)-hrra-do(h)' according to my very little bit
of Spanish. Which is almost as good as my little bit
of phonetics!
Kathy
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
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RAY, not RAH and more of a vur than a vuh. Although,
I suppose technically it would be
'el-be(yh)-hrra-do(h)' according to my very little bit
of Spanish. Which is almost as good as my little bit
of phonetics!
Kathy
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>http://us.click.yahoo.com/i8TXDC/5WnJAA/HwKMAA/0xXolB/TM
> In a message dated 6/8/2005 10:54:36 AM Mountain
> Daylight Time,
> kraekrej@... writes:
>
> Elverado (el-vuh-RAH-doh)
>
>
> wouldn't that be right though?
>
> Is it a variant of Alvarado which goes RAH on the
> third syllable?
>
> (Also known, in Texas, as AL vuh RAYdu)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
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