selfish decision to homeschool?
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/2/05 6:16:28 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< From Marci Zinn:
A family member said, "You are just doing this for yourself so you
won't have to buy the kids any school clothes."
Mike: Working 8+ hours a day for 12+ years just smacks of selfishness
if you ask me. >>
Not at all an answer unschoolers could give, but I was told by a friend who
was a preschool teacher, when Kirby was six, that I wasn't doing it for Kirby,
I was doing it for myself, that I was just being selfish. By that, in the
context I can no longer remember, it seemed she meant that Kirby should have no
choice about school, was too young to want to homeschool, hadn't been to
school so it wasn't fair for him to reject it, so it was MY decision, made
selfishly so I wouldn't have to go back to work (MAYBE that was her thought, as she
always whined about working as a teacher). I had two younger kids, though. I
wasn't fixin' to go anywhere. Her emotion when she made the accusation was
palpable, though. She was full on indignantly angry, and already at the door,
leaving my house.
I think it can be selfish, possibly. Someone on AlwaysLearning was
describing the three kinds of homeschoolers in her area (Durham in NE England), and
after describing "quality of education" home educators and religous home
educators, she described a third group, and I'd consider this somewhat selfish (she
admits it's a generality and somewhat bitter, but I've known some of these
familes from LLL, where it wasn't about the baby, it was about the mom's coolness
ratings):
-=-The third type is the truly alternative type. The people who are
choosing to home-educate because it fits in with their lifestyle
choices. They have nutritionists and holistic therapists and are
vegan, or wish they had the dedication to be, and insist that their
children be vegan as well. They have conversations about what kind of
blood type diet they should be on. As parents the key educational
lesson they seem to want to give is that sharing is the most important
thing. If any item is in question they will give it to someone not
their child as it is more important that they teach their child to
defer their own needs to someone else's than that they (the parent)
take the time to help the other child or their own to come up with a
compromise or some alternative play. In my experience the children
from these backgrounds are less socially adept, less sure of
themselves. If they get something that they really enjoy they hide it
and fight for it and hope that the argument stays quiet enough that
their parents don't notice and take away the coveted item. There is
egotism to this kind of home-education that the other two don't seem
to have as much of, a sense that home-education was less about helping
their child and more about adding to their alternative legitimacy,
like a tattoo or a tongue stud or whatever. -=-
Sandra
Sandra
<< From Marci Zinn:
A family member said, "You are just doing this for yourself so you
won't have to buy the kids any school clothes."
Mike: Working 8+ hours a day for 12+ years just smacks of selfishness
if you ask me. >>
Not at all an answer unschoolers could give, but I was told by a friend who
was a preschool teacher, when Kirby was six, that I wasn't doing it for Kirby,
I was doing it for myself, that I was just being selfish. By that, in the
context I can no longer remember, it seemed she meant that Kirby should have no
choice about school, was too young to want to homeschool, hadn't been to
school so it wasn't fair for him to reject it, so it was MY decision, made
selfishly so I wouldn't have to go back to work (MAYBE that was her thought, as she
always whined about working as a teacher). I had two younger kids, though. I
wasn't fixin' to go anywhere. Her emotion when she made the accusation was
palpable, though. She was full on indignantly angry, and already at the door,
leaving my house.
I think it can be selfish, possibly. Someone on AlwaysLearning was
describing the three kinds of homeschoolers in her area (Durham in NE England), and
after describing "quality of education" home educators and religous home
educators, she described a third group, and I'd consider this somewhat selfish (she
admits it's a generality and somewhat bitter, but I've known some of these
familes from LLL, where it wasn't about the baby, it was about the mom's coolness
ratings):
-=-The third type is the truly alternative type. The people who are
choosing to home-educate because it fits in with their lifestyle
choices. They have nutritionists and holistic therapists and are
vegan, or wish they had the dedication to be, and insist that their
children be vegan as well. They have conversations about what kind of
blood type diet they should be on. As parents the key educational
lesson they seem to want to give is that sharing is the most important
thing. If any item is in question they will give it to someone not
their child as it is more important that they teach their child to
defer their own needs to someone else's than that they (the parent)
take the time to help the other child or their own to come up with a
compromise or some alternative play. In my experience the children
from these backgrounds are less socially adept, less sure of
themselves. If they get something that they really enjoy they hide it
and fight for it and hope that the argument stays quiet enough that
their parents don't notice and take away the coveted item. There is
egotism to this kind of home-education that the other two don't seem
to have as much of, a sense that home-education was less about helping
their child and more about adding to their alternative legitimacy,
like a tattoo or a tongue stud or whatever. -=-
Sandra
Sandra
mchl_cnkln
My mother in law accused me of doing it for myself to.(She feels as if
I've always been way to attached to my boys. I didn't know thta was
posssible)
As if Zachariah's getting migraines, teased and being labeled and in
my eyes , his well being getting swallowed up and spit out had nothing
to do with it. And the mere fact of when I told him I thought he
should stay home he said It was better than a million christmases and
birthdays in one. (If only I knew that I could have saved quite a bit
of money over the years lol)
Just my opinion,
Michele
I've always been way to attached to my boys. I didn't know thta was
posssible)
As if Zachariah's getting migraines, teased and being labeled and in
my eyes , his well being getting swallowed up and spit out had nothing
to do with it. And the mere fact of when I told him I thought he
should stay home he said It was better than a million christmases and
birthdays in one. (If only I knew that I could have saved quite a bit
of money over the years lol)
Just my opinion,
Michele
Angela S.
I had a friend who thought that homeschooling was selfish because then I
won't be at the schools working to make them better for all the kids, esp.
the kids whose parents don't care enough to get involved. He felt I wasn't
doing my duty to society because I wasn't sacrificing my own children to the
system in order to make it better. I haven't seen them for many years now.
I wonder how their school experience has been going and if he's changed his
mind at all. But his kids were also way more outgoing than mine and that
makes life easier in school, so maybe it isn't so bad for them. I am sure
they are super involved in lots of sports and things.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
won't be at the schools working to make them better for all the kids, esp.
the kids whose parents don't care enough to get involved. He felt I wasn't
doing my duty to society because I wasn't sacrificing my own children to the
system in order to make it better. I haven't seen them for many years now.
I wonder how their school experience has been going and if he's changed his
mind at all. But his kids were also way more outgoing than mine and that
makes life easier in school, so maybe it isn't so bad for them. I am sure
they are super involved in lots of sports and things.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marjorie Kirk
I had a friend who thought that homeschooling was selfish because then I
won't be at the schools working to make them better for all the kids, esp.
the kids whose parents don't care enough to get involved. He felt I wasn't
doing my duty to society because I wasn't sacrificing my own children to the
system in order to make it better.
Angela
*************************************************
This attitude really ticks me off. Would this same friend sacrifice his own
body to a lousy surgeon who needs more practice to improve his skills?
Would he move his family to the 'hood to be there for all of those other
unfortunate kids? I doubt it. While I do think it's important to help
others, I can't see doing that in direct contradiction of what's best for
your own family.
Marjorie
won't be at the schools working to make them better for all the kids, esp.
the kids whose parents don't care enough to get involved. He felt I wasn't
doing my duty to society because I wasn't sacrificing my own children to the
system in order to make it better.
Angela
*************************************************
This attitude really ticks me off. Would this same friend sacrifice his own
body to a lousy surgeon who needs more practice to improve his skills?
Would he move his family to the 'hood to be there for all of those other
unfortunate kids? I doubt it. While I do think it's important to help
others, I can't see doing that in direct contradiction of what's best for
your own family.
Marjorie
Sylvia Toyama
had a friend who thought that homeschooling was selfish because then I won't be at the schools working to make them better for all the kids, esp. the kids whose parents don't care enough to get involved. He felt I wasn't doing my duty to society because I wasn't sacrificing my own children to the system in order to make it better.
****
I've heard this one from people. The whole idea that if I'm going to be an activist for my kids, I should advocate for everyone's kids. My answer is that I do advocate for other people's kids -- I'm more than happy to recommend parents pull their own kids out of school! <g>
Seriously tho, the idea that I should spend my time and energy fighting a system that's not even designed to meet the needs of each child (political rhetoric aside) when I could instead enjoy a full, joyous life with my own kids is is nothing more than an attempt to 'guilt' me back into the system.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
****
I've heard this one from people. The whole idea that if I'm going to be an activist for my kids, I should advocate for everyone's kids. My answer is that I do advocate for other people's kids -- I'm more than happy to recommend parents pull their own kids out of school! <g>
Seriously tho, the idea that I should spend my time and energy fighting a system that's not even designed to meet the needs of each child (political rhetoric aside) when I could instead enjoy a full, joyous life with my own kids is is nothing more than an attempt to 'guilt' me back into the system.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
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[email protected]
Another argument I've heard (and understand, honestly, from the teacher's
point of view) is that homeschoolers are likely to take away the best and most
interesting kids, lowering the average at school.
Well...
Often that is the case.
So? It's our duty to sacrifice our fascinating and interested kids to raise
school's average?
It would be nice for the teachers if we would. It's more fun for them to
have some interesting kids who didn't really NEED to be dragged through step by
step (not that anyone benefits or "needs" it, but from their point of view,
being paid to drag kids through steps...)
Some of the best things I learned in school I learned from other kids who'd
had bigger lives or interesting homes or cool hobbies. Since I had to go to
school every day anyway, I made the best of it. When kids moved in from
other places I debriefed them until they couldn't stand it anymore about where
they'd been and what they'd seen. <g> Some could stand a lot, and I milked
them for all the information about the outside world I could get, and also told
them as much as they wanted to know about the local scene: history of the
buildings, which teachers were how, all about the other kids they might want to
know as far as I was aware. I still managed to do my schoolwork, but I was
then as I am now about "I'll tell you all about my family; how's yours? How
does that make you feel? What do you think you'll be doing five years from
now? Ten? Why are you here and where might you rather be?"
So if homeschooling had been common, I might've still been in school, but
lots of those other kids wouldn't have been.
This is not a recommendation for our feeling guilty at ALL, just an
observation of why it would be dismaying to those who prize the diversity and
richness of a broader student body.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
point of view) is that homeschoolers are likely to take away the best and most
interesting kids, lowering the average at school.
Well...
Often that is the case.
So? It's our duty to sacrifice our fascinating and interested kids to raise
school's average?
It would be nice for the teachers if we would. It's more fun for them to
have some interesting kids who didn't really NEED to be dragged through step by
step (not that anyone benefits or "needs" it, but from their point of view,
being paid to drag kids through steps...)
Some of the best things I learned in school I learned from other kids who'd
had bigger lives or interesting homes or cool hobbies. Since I had to go to
school every day anyway, I made the best of it. When kids moved in from
other places I debriefed them until they couldn't stand it anymore about where
they'd been and what they'd seen. <g> Some could stand a lot, and I milked
them for all the information about the outside world I could get, and also told
them as much as they wanted to know about the local scene: history of the
buildings, which teachers were how, all about the other kids they might want to
know as far as I was aware. I still managed to do my schoolwork, but I was
then as I am now about "I'll tell you all about my family; how's yours? How
does that make you feel? What do you think you'll be doing five years from
now? Ten? Why are you here and where might you rather be?"
So if homeschooling had been common, I might've still been in school, but
lots of those other kids wouldn't have been.
This is not a recommendation for our feeling guilty at ALL, just an
observation of why it would be dismaying to those who prize the diversity and
richness of a broader student body.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
beanmommy2
> had a friend who thought that homeschooling was selfish becausethen I won't be at the schools working to make them better for all the
kids, esp. the kids whose parents don't care enough to get involved.
He felt I wasn't doing my duty to society because I wasn't sacrificing
my own children to the system in order to make it better.
***********************************************************************
I've heard my cousins (and another aquaintance) say they wouldn't want
to homeschool because they feel it's important to support the public
schools and the teachers.
My husband shared that comment with a co-worker (who has no kids), and
the co-worker said, "Um, yeah, I support the public school because my
tax money goes there!"
Jenny
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
to homeschoolers taking a class here or there - that richness of
experience - not to mention teachers having kids who *chose* to be
there in their classes. More of a resource rather than a monolithic
structure.
>That makes a really good point for making schools as open as possible
> This is not a recommendation for our feeling guilty at ALL, just an
> observation of why it would be dismaying to those who prize the
>diversity and
> richness of a broader student body.
>
> Sandra
>
to homeschoolers taking a class here or there - that richness of
experience - not to mention teachers having kids who *chose* to be
there in their classes. More of a resource rather than a monolithic
structure.
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/3/2005 9:07:29 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
debra.rossing@... writes:
to homeschoolers taking a class here or there - that richness of
experience - not to mention teachers having kids who *chose* to be
there in their classes. More of a resource rather than a monolithic
structure.
-------------
I hope that's what will happen.
Someday it will, I hope.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
debra.rossing@... writes:
>That makes a really good point for making schools as open as possible
to homeschoolers taking a class here or there - that richness of
experience - not to mention teachers having kids who *chose* to be
there in their classes. More of a resource rather than a monolithic
structure.
-------------
I hope that's what will happen.
Someday it will, I hope.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Jun 3, 2005, at 7:11 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
anymore. MOST of the people taking their kids out these days are those
with special needs - most have more letters in their diagnoses than in
their names, and the parents are finally at the end of their rope with
trying to get an education for their kid through the school. They
always say, "The school has just given up on him."
I've heard that sentence more in the last 4 or 5 years than any other
sentence. "It seems like the school has just given up on him."
-pam
> Another argument I've heard (and understand, honestly, from theAlthough I still hear people say that, I don't even think it is true,
> teacher's
> point of view) is that homeschoolers are likely to take away the best
> and most
> interesting kids, lowering the average at school.
>
> Well...
> Often that is the case.
anymore. MOST of the people taking their kids out these days are those
with special needs - most have more letters in their diagnoses than in
their names, and the parents are finally at the end of their rope with
trying to get an education for their kid through the school. They
always say, "The school has just given up on him."
I've heard that sentence more in the last 4 or 5 years than any other
sentence. "It seems like the school has just given up on him."
-pam