so long,farewell.....
sandy keane
I'm excited to see the volume of mail from people serious about
unschooling, and think that people can find a lot of support
here.
I'm finding the volume a bit much right now, though, and was
thinking of unsubbing anyway, but what helped me decide was
Sandra Dodd's statement that people have the opportunity to learn
about unschooling on this list from "famous unschoolers". While
this is true and will probably be an opportunity relished by
most, I found that this statement summed up what has been
bothering me about this list, but which I couldn't quite put my
finger on.
I happen to agree with everything Sandra, Helen and other more
high profile unschoolers have to say about unschooling and
appreciate that they are willing to share their experience, but
have learned most from watching my kids learn and learned a
tremendous amount from having my ideas challenged and by
discussing unschooling over the years with folks quite new to the
concept as well as with those who have blazed the trail before
us.
I feel strongly that everyone on this list could contribute
valuable insight and experience and learn together, but
statements like the one above come across to me as just a tad
patronizing. Our family unschools because we don't think we need
"experts" or "teachers" or "famous unschoolers" to learn from. We
just need to be awake and alive with open minds and trust in our
kids.
Adieu....
--
Sandy <skeane@...> http://mypage.direct.ca/s/skeane/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Summer Haiku
Smell of glove leather,
grassy stains and diamond dust,
green cathedrals......life. -sk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
unschooling, and think that people can find a lot of support
here.
I'm finding the volume a bit much right now, though, and was
thinking of unsubbing anyway, but what helped me decide was
Sandra Dodd's statement that people have the opportunity to learn
about unschooling on this list from "famous unschoolers". While
this is true and will probably be an opportunity relished by
most, I found that this statement summed up what has been
bothering me about this list, but which I couldn't quite put my
finger on.
I happen to agree with everything Sandra, Helen and other more
high profile unschoolers have to say about unschooling and
appreciate that they are willing to share their experience, but
have learned most from watching my kids learn and learned a
tremendous amount from having my ideas challenged and by
discussing unschooling over the years with folks quite new to the
concept as well as with those who have blazed the trail before
us.
I feel strongly that everyone on this list could contribute
valuable insight and experience and learn together, but
statements like the one above come across to me as just a tad
patronizing. Our family unschools because we don't think we need
"experts" or "teachers" or "famous unschoolers" to learn from. We
just need to be awake and alive with open minds and trust in our
kids.
Adieu....
--
Sandy <skeane@...> http://mypage.direct.ca/s/skeane/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Summer Haiku
Smell of glove leather,
grassy stains and diamond dust,
green cathedrals......life. -sk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[email protected]
<<I feel strongly that everyone on this list could contribute
valuable insight and experience and learn together, but
statements like the one above come across to me as just a tad
patronizing. Our family unschools because we don't think we need
"experts" or "teachers" or "famous unschoolers" to learn from. We
just need to be awake and alive with open minds and trust in our
kids. >>
Didn't mean to irritate anyone, truly. I've just never seen so many authors
in one place (not me--people who wrote BOOKS and stuff) for an unschooling
discussion outside a conference, and so for people to be arguing that we
shouldn't be limiting the discussion to unschooling while I was getting side
mail from people saying if it didn't clear up they were going to leave
prompted that statement.
If people who aren't even unschoolers are given as much weight as those who
have grown unschooled kids (not me, my oldest is twelve) the list won't be as
powerful as if thoe who have that experience are listened to.
Some people aren't ready to just listen to their kids and trust unschooling,
and they could use the concentration of experience.
Sorry to have made anyone feel uncomfortable.
Sandra
valuable insight and experience and learn together, but
statements like the one above come across to me as just a tad
patronizing. Our family unschools because we don't think we need
"experts" or "teachers" or "famous unschoolers" to learn from. We
just need to be awake and alive with open minds and trust in our
kids. >>
Didn't mean to irritate anyone, truly. I've just never seen so many authors
in one place (not me--people who wrote BOOKS and stuff) for an unschooling
discussion outside a conference, and so for people to be arguing that we
shouldn't be limiting the discussion to unschooling while I was getting side
mail from people saying if it didn't clear up they were going to leave
prompted that statement.
If people who aren't even unschoolers are given as much weight as those who
have grown unschooled kids (not me, my oldest is twelve) the list won't be as
powerful as if thoe who have that experience are listened to.
Some people aren't ready to just listen to their kids and trust unschooling,
and they could use the concentration of experience.
Sorry to have made anyone feel uncomfortable.
Sandra
B & T Simpson
>I completely agree here, I have been feeling very uncompfortable about
><<I feel strongly that everyone on this list could contribute
>valuable insight and experience and learn together, but
>statements like the one above come across to me as just a tad
>patronizing. Our family unschools because we don't think we need
>"experts" or "teachers" or "famous unschoolers" to learn from. We
>just need to be awake and alive with open minds and trust in our
>kids. >>>>
>
posting here since I just started in Feb I do feel I am an unschooler, but
all of us who have pulled our children out of public schools instead of
starting at birth are just starting out in our convictions and look to
others for love and support whatever our thought for the day!
>>>If people who aren't even unschoolers are given as much weight as thosewho
>have grown unschooled kids (not me, my oldest is twelve) the list won't beas
>powerful as if thoe who have that experience are listened to.>>>>I feel strongly that everyone here has something valuable to contriblute,
those of us just begining look to those who have been there done that to
show us that it isn't hard and the sorts of things they do ,
and we look to those who are also begining to not feel so alone in just
starting and all of the terrifying experiences that we have expecially with
family and friends!
if these people are so "famous" then why would they come to get support from
those of us who are just starting, are they just here to "tell " us how to
do it their way? or perhaps they would prefer that this list be limited to
those with the "famous" status?
I don't feel here is a place to put anyone up on a pedistal and downplay
anyones imput no matter how long they have been at it! and I do find it a
bit annoying that you have to have a phd to understand half of the language
being used here. that may sound laim, but it seems to me like some are
trying their best to sound overly intilectual to get their points accross,
and to some of us it is read as garbally goop if I cannot understand what
you are trying to say to me how am I supposed to apply it to my life?
It was also mentioned that giving details to a question would be annoying to
others, I think it would be very helpful, sometimes I don't have time or
the right question in mind to be able to get more details for a question
that somebody else asked, and would have liked the details to be laid out
the first time.
>>>Some people aren't ready to just listen to their kids and trustunschooling,
>and they could use the concentration of experience.>>>>I have been very unsure about what I am supposed to be posting here, and
>
very uncompfortable about it, and would have said so earlier when all of
the condesending attitudes came out to begin with but my computer only works
when it feels like it, (maxed out harddrive )
I hope this made sense as I am very frusterated by the whole thing!
Tanya Ohio
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/13/99 12:39:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< Some people aren't ready to just listen to their kids and trust
unschooling,
and they could use the concentration of experience. >>
I just had to comment here...I have been lurking for a few days and very much
enjoyed the posts (debates and all). Our family is in a deschooling process.
Our son went to 3 months of kindergarten (sent out of our perceived pressure
from family and friends ...ARGH) but we pulled him out because the school was
simply destroying his creativity and spirit. We know we are unschoolers in
our hearts but its been difficult to make that leap of faith into "pure"
unschooling. We never considered using a curriculum but we struggled with
scheduled days and required activities. (I have a file of lesson plans and
record keeping spreadsheets that shows our evolution....I am down to just
using a journal and saving things our son creates) I guess the fears were
remnants of the kind of schooling my husband and I grew up with. My hope is
this list will provide some insight from veteran unschooling families and
support from families who are meeting similar challenges.
Kelly
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< Some people aren't ready to just listen to their kids and trust
unschooling,
and they could use the concentration of experience. >>
I just had to comment here...I have been lurking for a few days and very much
enjoyed the posts (debates and all). Our family is in a deschooling process.
Our son went to 3 months of kindergarten (sent out of our perceived pressure
from family and friends ...ARGH) but we pulled him out because the school was
simply destroying his creativity and spirit. We know we are unschoolers in
our hearts but its been difficult to make that leap of faith into "pure"
unschooling. We never considered using a curriculum but we struggled with
scheduled days and required activities. (I have a file of lesson plans and
record keeping spreadsheets that shows our evolution....I am down to just
using a journal and saving things our son creates) I guess the fears were
remnants of the kind of schooling my husband and I grew up with. My hope is
this list will provide some insight from veteran unschooling families and
support from families who are meeting similar challenges.
Kelly
Andi Kaufman
no offense meant Helen. You are an experienced homeschooler but i dont know
if you are famous or not. Personally I dont think I care. I am not into
names or labels. I appreciate what ohers have to share or give. I dot think
of any of us as experts except for ourselves and our own kids.
I also did not take sandras post as offensive. I may not agree on
somethings but she as much right to her view as i do. ALso I tend to over
look things that are into in your face meaness cus i figure people cant
tell what i mean cus they cant see me and know my intention. that is the
problme with email.
I think it is so important to share the info we have. our knowledge and our
experience. while I do not have much hsing experience , I am still a
vibrant member of this community and can still give imput and advice. it is
up to the rest of you to decide what to do with it.
I think so many of us are used to being defensive. after all we are
different and sometimes persecuted for our beliefs and actions that we tend
to just assume people are doing this.
I relaly hope that people dont feel they haveto temper what they say. I
take what is said as face value and not personally against me.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
if you are famous or not. Personally I dont think I care. I am not into
names or labels. I appreciate what ohers have to share or give. I dot think
of any of us as experts except for ourselves and our own kids.
I also did not take sandras post as offensive. I may not agree on
somethings but she as much right to her view as i do. ALso I tend to over
look things that are into in your face meaness cus i figure people cant
tell what i mean cus they cant see me and know my intention. that is the
problme with email.
I think it is so important to share the info we have. our knowledge and our
experience. while I do not have much hsing experience , I am still a
vibrant member of this community and can still give imput and advice. it is
up to the rest of you to decide what to do with it.
I think so many of us are used to being defensive. after all we are
different and sometimes persecuted for our beliefs and actions that we tend
to just assume people are doing this.
I relaly hope that people dont feel they haveto temper what they say. I
take what is said as face value and not personally against me.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
Helen Hegener
I haven't been posting much on this list, but I've been reading right
along, and I've saved a few posts I thought I'd like to reply to this
morning while I have some time. Sandy Keane's (below) is among them.
Sandy's the one who left the list because of Sandra Dodd's statement that
people have the opportunity to learn about unschooling on this list from
"famous unschoolers".
It got me to thinking about this fame stuff, what constitutes fame, when it
might be deserved, and when it's more or less "bestowed" on one by virtue
of what one does for a living or maintains an interest and an involvment in
or whatever. I think that's the case with Mark and I. Any "fame" we have is
simply because we chose to support our family by publishing a magazine, the
magazine has been wildly successful, and therefore, we're "famous." Yes,
it's more complex than that - we've also been pretty active in
homeschooling politics over the years, we published some books on
homeschooling, we founded one national organization and helped found
another and are currently involved with creating a third... but does this
make us "famous?" Not in my book. Fame - real fame - seems like something
different, something rarefied, something... I dunno. Maybe I just don't
"feel" famous. <g>
When I read Sandra's words I didn't read "famous homeschoolers" the same
way Sandy seemed to. I just took it as Sandra's shorthand for "those who've
had some experience with these things" or "those who've been around the
block a time or two" or something.
Still thinking on this,
Helen
At 10:26 PM -0700 6/12/99, sandy keane wrote:
along, and I've saved a few posts I thought I'd like to reply to this
morning while I have some time. Sandy Keane's (below) is among them.
Sandy's the one who left the list because of Sandra Dodd's statement that
people have the opportunity to learn about unschooling on this list from
"famous unschoolers".
It got me to thinking about this fame stuff, what constitutes fame, when it
might be deserved, and when it's more or less "bestowed" on one by virtue
of what one does for a living or maintains an interest and an involvment in
or whatever. I think that's the case with Mark and I. Any "fame" we have is
simply because we chose to support our family by publishing a magazine, the
magazine has been wildly successful, and therefore, we're "famous." Yes,
it's more complex than that - we've also been pretty active in
homeschooling politics over the years, we published some books on
homeschooling, we founded one national organization and helped found
another and are currently involved with creating a third... but does this
make us "famous?" Not in my book. Fame - real fame - seems like something
different, something rarefied, something... I dunno. Maybe I just don't
"feel" famous. <g>
When I read Sandra's words I didn't read "famous homeschoolers" the same
way Sandy seemed to. I just took it as Sandra's shorthand for "those who've
had some experience with these things" or "those who've been around the
block a time or two" or something.
Still thinking on this,
Helen
At 10:26 PM -0700 6/12/99, sandy keane wrote:
>I'm finding the volume a bit much right now, though, and was
>thinking of unsubbing anyway, but what helped me decide was
>Sandra Dodd's statement that people have the opportunity to learn
>about unschooling on this list from "famous unschoolers". While
>this is true and will probably be an opportunity relished by
>most, I found that this statement summed up what has been
>bothering me about this list, but which I couldn't quite put my
>finger on.
>
>I happen to agree with everything Sandra, Helen and other more
>high profile unschoolers have to say about unschooling and
>appreciate that they are willing to share their experience, but
>have learned most from watching my kids learn and learned a
>tremendous amount from having my ideas challenged and by
>discussing unschooling over the years with folks quite new to the
>concept as well as with those who have blazed the trail before
>us.
>
>I feel strongly that everyone on this list could contribute
>valuable insight and experience and learn together, but
>statements like the one above come across to me as just a tad
>patronizing. Our family unschools because we don't think we need
>"experts" or "teachers" or "famous unschoolers" to learn from. We
>just need to be awake and alive with open minds and trust in our
>kids.
>
>Adieu....
>--
>Sandy <skeane@...> http://mypage.direct.ca/s/skeane/
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Summer Haiku
>
>Smell of glove leather,
>grassy stains and diamond dust,
>green cathedrals......life. -sk
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members?
>http://www.onelist.com
>Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
Home Education Magazine
At 1:38 AM -0400 6/13/99, SandraDodd@... wrote:
married and raising families, all totally, radically, absolutely
no-curriculum-ever unschooled), I have to disagree with Sandra here.
I think the only way to have a powerful list is to begin with the
assumption that everyone who wants to join the conversation is given just
as much weight as everyone else. Some people will have more experience in
some specific areas like unschooling, but others might have more experience
in other areas which may not necessarily be labeled or recognized as
unschooling, but which might have great bearing on the issues involved
(respecting children, finding resources, etc.).
I might have experience, but it's only with unschooling my own kids. I'll
be happy to relate what's worked for us, but only with the understanding
that I'm drawing from 40+ years of developing understandings, nurturing
relationships, and experiencing an amazing series of events in my life. I
reached the point where I could trust my children's learning by being
trusted by my parents to be responsible for my own learning. I knew
unschooling worked because I was unschooled.
And now the kids and the grandkids are up and I need to get off this
computer for the day. I'll try to respond to more posts when I can.
Helen
Helen@...
http://unschooling.com
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
"I took the road less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."
-Robert Frost
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
>If people who aren't even unschoolers are given as much weight as those whoWell... as one of those with grown unschooled kids (four over 18, two
>have grown unschooled kids (not me, my oldest is twelve) the list won't be as
>powerful as if thoe who have that experience are listened to.
married and raising families, all totally, radically, absolutely
no-curriculum-ever unschooled), I have to disagree with Sandra here.
I think the only way to have a powerful list is to begin with the
assumption that everyone who wants to join the conversation is given just
as much weight as everyone else. Some people will have more experience in
some specific areas like unschooling, but others might have more experience
in other areas which may not necessarily be labeled or recognized as
unschooling, but which might have great bearing on the issues involved
(respecting children, finding resources, etc.).
I might have experience, but it's only with unschooling my own kids. I'll
be happy to relate what's worked for us, but only with the understanding
that I'm drawing from 40+ years of developing understandings, nurturing
relationships, and experiencing an amazing series of events in my life. I
reached the point where I could trust my children's learning by being
trusted by my parents to be responsible for my own learning. I knew
unschooling worked because I was unschooled.
And now the kids and the grandkids are up and I need to get off this
computer for the day. I'll try to respond to more posts when I can.
Helen
Helen@...
http://unschooling.com
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
"I took the road less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."
-Robert Frost
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
shannon hawkins
Helen, many thanks! In my opinion, this is the *key* to this list :-) ~ Shannon
~
Home Education Magazine wrote:
~
Home Education Magazine wrote:
> I might have experience, but it's only with unschooling my own kids.
>
> Helen
> Helen@...
> http://unschooling.com
Carol C Ferguson
Helen Hegner wrote:
"we chose to support our family by publishing a magazine, the
magazine has been wildly successful, and therefore, we're "famous." Yes,
it's more complex than that - we've also been pretty active in
homeschooling politics over the years, we published some books on
homeschooling, we founded one national organization and helped found
another and are currently involved with creating a third..."
For all those who take offense to "high profile unschoolers"
participating on this list, I say you don't know the history of
homeschooling and how these people have so positively contributed to the
freedom of homeschooling that we enjoy nation-wide.
They aren't the "founders of homeschooling" but their voices are widely
heard and I for one respect their experiences. If I ignore the fact that
there is a larger society out beyond my unschooling household, then I am
deluding my self as to the purpose of homeshooling.
Carol F.
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
"we chose to support our family by publishing a magazine, the
magazine has been wildly successful, and therefore, we're "famous." Yes,
it's more complex than that - we've also been pretty active in
homeschooling politics over the years, we published some books on
homeschooling, we founded one national organization and helped found
another and are currently involved with creating a third..."
For all those who take offense to "high profile unschoolers"
participating on this list, I say you don't know the history of
homeschooling and how these people have so positively contributed to the
freedom of homeschooling that we enjoy nation-wide.
They aren't the "founders of homeschooling" but their voices are widely
heard and I for one respect their experiences. If I ignore the fact that
there is a larger society out beyond my unschooling household, then I am
deluding my self as to the purpose of homeshooling.
Carol F.
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/13/99 9:25:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
HEM-Editor@... writes:
<< I'll
be happy to relate what's worked for us, but only with the understanding
that I'm drawing from 40+ years of developing understandings, nurturing
relationships, and experiencing an amazing series of events in my life. >>
This is what is different in my life. Amazing series of events. There is a
big difference in my life between raising the first two public schooled
students and these three younger ones. Amazing series of events. Each day
is an amazing series because I'm connected more....
Gee, Helen thanks for defining that for me :)
Charlotte
HEM-Editor@... writes:
<< I'll
be happy to relate what's worked for us, but only with the understanding
that I'm drawing from 40+ years of developing understandings, nurturing
relationships, and experiencing an amazing series of events in my life. >>
This is what is different in my life. Amazing series of events. There is a
big difference in my life between raising the first two public schooled
students and these three younger ones. Amazing series of events. Each day
is an amazing series because I'm connected more....
Gee, Helen thanks for defining that for me :)
Charlotte
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/13/99 9:26:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
HEM-Editor@... writes:
<< Fame - real fame - seems like something
different, something rarefied, something... I dunno. Maybe I just don't
"feel" famous. <g> >>
You don't act it either <g>, but I don't really *know* what a famous person
is supposed to act like...
Maybe what I see, is people that look and act like real people. But, in
saying that, your words carry a great deal of weight. Maybe at first because
there was the *fame* of being a publisher. But, now after a few years of
reading <g>, because your words are those of experience and that shines
through.
Charlotte
HEM-Editor@... writes:
<< Fame - real fame - seems like something
different, something rarefied, something... I dunno. Maybe I just don't
"feel" famous. <g> >>
You don't act it either <g>, but I don't really *know* what a famous person
is supposed to act like...
Maybe what I see, is people that look and act like real people. But, in
saying that, your words carry a great deal of weight. Maybe at first because
there was the *fame* of being a publisher. But, now after a few years of
reading <g>, because your words are those of experience and that shines
through.
Charlotte
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/13/99 1:33:42 PM EST, unschooling-is-4-me@...
writes:
<< They aren't the "founders of homeschooling" but their voices are widely
heard and I for one respect their experiences. If I ignore the fact that >>
Carol, you are right about respecting experience, but that is not what we are
having a problem with. It is real nice that these experienced people are on
the list, and of course we can benefit from their knowledge. However, no one
is going to listen to a word that someone says when they are putting
themselves above others. If we didn't want to move into unschooling, we
wouldn't be here. Now, if this list is ONLY for experienced unschoolers, and
people who are struggling to get there are not wanted, then fine, those of us
shouldn't be here and should let them have it. I don't think this is so,
not from the reply's to posts that I have seen from others. We just want to
have help and reassurance for what we are attempting, not be put down when we
ask something and not made to feel bad or that we have asked a stupid
question. Maybe this all is a BIG lesson to us on how NOT to treat your
children when you are unschooling your kids. I have learned a great deal so
far, from real life situations people are talking about and from solid
answers that people like Lois, and Linda have given, I hope that keeps up and
we all learn from each other.
Teresa
writes:
<< They aren't the "founders of homeschooling" but their voices are widely
heard and I for one respect their experiences. If I ignore the fact that >>
Carol, you are right about respecting experience, but that is not what we are
having a problem with. It is real nice that these experienced people are on
the list, and of course we can benefit from their knowledge. However, no one
is going to listen to a word that someone says when they are putting
themselves above others. If we didn't want to move into unschooling, we
wouldn't be here. Now, if this list is ONLY for experienced unschoolers, and
people who are struggling to get there are not wanted, then fine, those of us
shouldn't be here and should let them have it. I don't think this is so,
not from the reply's to posts that I have seen from others. We just want to
have help and reassurance for what we are attempting, not be put down when we
ask something and not made to feel bad or that we have asked a stupid
question. Maybe this all is a BIG lesson to us on how NOT to treat your
children when you are unschooling your kids. I have learned a great deal so
far, from real life situations people are talking about and from solid
answers that people like Lois, and Linda have given, I hope that keeps up and
we all learn from each other.
Teresa
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/13/99 12:51:01 PM, Hsmotgo@... writes:
<<We just want to
have help and reassurance for what we are attempting, not be put down when we
ask something and not made to feel bad or that we have asked a stupid
question. Maybe this all is a BIG lesson to us on how NOT to treat your
children when you are unschooling your kids. >>
I think that Sandra has apoligized for any hard feelings she may have
inadvertantly caused, and that we ought to let this go and get on with
discussing the subject at hand. There is that classic problem of only seeing
the words on the screen and not facial expressions, and changes in tone of
voice and body language. I think one of the best things we can remember to
do here in to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who is speaking.
Maybe she should have put the word experts in quotation marks, to indicate a
sense of irony, maybe not. In any case, I have had the joy, benefit,
blessing, whatever you want to call it, of seeing Sandra in person, of
hearing her speak at conferences, of sitting around on floors with her. She
has many good things to share with us if we will only listen.
I hope this list does not fall apart over this issue. I hope Sandra feels
free to continue posting. I hope others do as well. Sometimes its a good
thing for someone to remind us which road we are on.
--jocelyn
<<We just want to
have help and reassurance for what we are attempting, not be put down when we
ask something and not made to feel bad or that we have asked a stupid
question. Maybe this all is a BIG lesson to us on how NOT to treat your
children when you are unschooling your kids. >>
I think that Sandra has apoligized for any hard feelings she may have
inadvertantly caused, and that we ought to let this go and get on with
discussing the subject at hand. There is that classic problem of only seeing
the words on the screen and not facial expressions, and changes in tone of
voice and body language. I think one of the best things we can remember to
do here in to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who is speaking.
Maybe she should have put the word experts in quotation marks, to indicate a
sense of irony, maybe not. In any case, I have had the joy, benefit,
blessing, whatever you want to call it, of seeing Sandra in person, of
hearing her speak at conferences, of sitting around on floors with her. She
has many good things to share with us if we will only listen.
I hope this list does not fall apart over this issue. I hope Sandra feels
free to continue posting. I hope others do as well. Sometimes its a good
thing for someone to remind us which road we are on.
--jocelyn
Andi Kaufman
hey jocelyn didnt i already say that :) ANd I agree I hope no one else
leaves over this. I think it was a misunderstanding not someone trying to
hurt anyone. either that or I have strong selse, so who ever you are try
again! :)
andi
There is that classic problem of only seeing
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
leaves over this. I think it was a misunderstanding not someone trying to
hurt anyone. either that or I have strong selse, so who ever you are try
again! :)
andi
There is that classic problem of only seeing
>the words on the screen and not facial expressions, and changes in tone ofAndi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
>voice and body language. I think one of the best things we can remember to
>do here in to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who is speaking.
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
[email protected]
The first two days that I was on this list, I was excited and happy.
After that, I too had some kind of not so right feeling that I couldn't
put my finger on.
I certainly don't take offense to having seasoned unschoolers here or
"experts." I also don't take offense to newbies or those full of doubt
and looking for support or encouragement. We're all just people and
supposed to be here for one another.
What I do find uncomfrotable, and have just realized, is the underlying
tone of things being right and wrong. Of terms being picked apart and
corrected. Of having to choose words too carefully. Reminders of what
subjects should be and what should not be. Of when to move on or not.
I haven't seen anyone curse or call someone names. I haven't seen anyone
ramble on about their health or the weather. I haven't seen anyone post
for days about something that has been long forgotten.
What I feel lies in the air here....... is the smell of school.
Mary in FL
After that, I too had some kind of not so right feeling that I couldn't
put my finger on.
I certainly don't take offense to having seasoned unschoolers here or
"experts." I also don't take offense to newbies or those full of doubt
and looking for support or encouragement. We're all just people and
supposed to be here for one another.
What I do find uncomfrotable, and have just realized, is the underlying
tone of things being right and wrong. Of terms being picked apart and
corrected. Of having to choose words too carefully. Reminders of what
subjects should be and what should not be. Of when to move on or not.
I haven't seen anyone curse or call someone names. I haven't seen anyone
ramble on about their health or the weather. I haven't seen anyone post
for days about something that has been long forgotten.
What I feel lies in the air here....... is the smell of school.
Mary in FL
B & T Simpson
>>>What I feel lies in the air here....... is the smell of school. >>>Mary in FL, I was just thinking the same thing today, like I could just
imagine a teacher picking out only the kids that are smart to answer the
questions, or the not so quardinated kids being picked last to play ball,
rather than being given equal opportunity to grow, they are pushed aside ,
or like the "gifted class being created for the smart kids" if everyone
isn't treated with some sort of equality, and given a chance to succeed than
how can one succeed? isn't this the whole reason we are all unschooling? to
get away from all of that?
Tanya Ohio
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[email protected]
In a message dated 6/13/99 3:03:52 PM EST, JVilter@... writes:
<< I hope others do as well >>
so do I
Teresa
<< I hope others do as well >>
so do I
Teresa
[email protected]
>>>>>>>or like the "gifted class being created for the smart kids" ifeveryone
isn't treated with some sort of equality, and given a chance to succeed than
how can one succeed? isn't this the whole reason we are all unschooling? to
get away from all of that?
Tanya Ohio
>>>>>I see it more like a class where the gifted kids AREN'T separated from the
regular and uncoordinated kids--so that the regular and uncoordinated kids
have a chance to do some gifted work.
I don't think anyone was trying to separate the smart/not smart. Instead, I
think people were interested in keeping the topics meaty, so that there
would be lots for everyone to talk about--even those gifted, or rather "more
experienced" kids.
In my recollection, I think that the difference between many of the gifted
kids (in my school anyway-and I was good friends with many of them)- was
exposure. It wasn't a matter of anyone being better than anyone else. Ever.
In any event, I don't think it was about separating people, so much as about
separating UNschooling from regular homeschooling.
Steph
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 04:02 PM 6/13/99 EDT, you wrote:
that may be misconstrued, for the very reasons listed above. If I am going
to make potentially "charged" comments that I think may be taken stronger
or in a different sense than I mean them, I am very cautious about my use
of language, punctuation and disclaimers and/or emoticons. Also I remind
myself while reading my mail that there are a lot of smart-asses on this
list, and it is probably most accurate to assume sarcasm when in doubt. ;-)
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: JVilter@...seeing
>I think that Sandra has apoligized for any hard feelings she may have
>inadvertantly caused, and that we ought to let this go and get on with
>discussing the subject at hand. There is that classic problem of only
>the words on the screen and not facial expressions, and changes in tone ofWell said, and may we all try to remember to take great care about language
>voice and body language. I think one of the best things we can remember to
>do here in to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who is speaking.
>Maybe she should have put the word experts in quotation marks, to indicate a
>sense of irony, maybe not.
that may be misconstrued, for the very reasons listed above. If I am going
to make potentially "charged" comments that I think may be taken stronger
or in a different sense than I mean them, I am very cautious about my use
of language, punctuation and disclaimers and/or emoticons. Also I remind
myself while reading my mail that there are a lot of smart-asses on this
list, and it is probably most accurate to assume sarcasm when in doubt. ;-)
Nanci K. in Idaho
DAWN MAURER
>I need to get off this list. Please if this message does not "remove me"
would someone please tell me what I must do. And please hurry, I am being
burried alive in messages. And after reading a couple days worth I see no
reason for it, I have only observed a lot of people
fighting/agruing/spatting/defending/proclaiming ect, ect, ect.
Please get me off this list.....................
Dawn
Lisa Bugg
Dawn,
I've unsubscribed you. The messages should stop in a couple of hours. :)
Lisa
-----Original\l Message-----
From: DAWN MAURER <cmaurer@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] so long,farewell.....
I need to get off this list. Please if this message does not "remove me" would someone please tell me what I must do. And please hurry, I am being burried alive in messages. And after reading a couple days worth I see no reason for it, I have only observed a lot of people fighting/agruing/spatting/defending/proclaiming ect, ect, ect.
Please get me off this list.....................
Dawn
I've unsubscribed you. The messages should stop in a couple of hours. :)
Lisa
-----Original\l Message-----
From: DAWN MAURER <cmaurer@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] so long,farewell.....
I need to get off this list. Please if this message does not "remove me" would someone please tell me what I must do. And please hurry, I am being burried alive in messages. And after reading a couple days worth I see no reason for it, I have only observed a lot of people fighting/agruing/spatting/defending/proclaiming ect, ect, ect.
Please get me off this list.....................
Dawn