kraekrej

Hello!

My name is Kathy and we have a 6 year-old son that we accidentally
started homeschooling in August. It's a long story that I will
babble later :)

In the time we've been doing (or not doing) this, it appears to me
that I am much more inclined to an unschooling approach. I still
have many personal hurdles to jump to feel like I'm REALLY in an
unschooling way but I'm slowly finding people who are helpful.

The biggest concern we have is that our little guy has some disorders
that make communication difficult and affect him physically as well.
We initially had diagnoses of autism, PDD-NOS, speech disorders and
sensory integration dysfunction. Ellis is my third kiddo and I knew
from the time he was about 2 months old that he was not 'usual'.

We pursued SI therapy which helped a great deal initially in terms of
his coordination and many sensitivities. He spent two years in half-
time public school special ed which was a great experience and did
wonders for him because of an incredible teacher. We were lulled
into thinking he would have this kind of treatment for the rest of
his school days.

Boy were we wrong. He was declared 'normal' in April, 2004 and
graduated to 'regular' kindergarten. Our concerns were dismissed.
We were patted on the head and told to leave him to the
professionals. The principal said, "We've had LOTS of kids like
Ellis. We know what we're doing." In spite of this, he started
kindergarten in fall with a teacher I despised on sight.

He was broken after six school days. We withdrew him on the 7th
school day and the office staff person read my letter, then
said, "Well is he coming today? Because it takes us 24 hours to
process the paperwork and he'll get an unexcused absence." I was
speechless (a rarity). As if I CARED about an unexcused absence?

So that is how we accidentally started homeschooling - with no
forethought, no planning, no clue. The only real obsession I have is
that Ellis read, and read well. To me, that is a key to almost
everything else he will want to explore on his own. And we're book
junkies anyhow.

The problems we encounter are that Ellis does not engage in 'normal'
kid things. He has the kindest heart in the world. He has some
physical weaknesses and sensitivities that limit his interest in a
lot of things. He has a crazy sense of humor and giggles
constantly. But he retreats into his head and doesn't come out
except in the form of video games. He is absolutely obsessed with
anything that has a screen and once he goes into that 'place', he's
gone.

So I'm wondering if anyone has similar experiences and what might
help to give a kid like Ellis a chance to wonder.

Thanks for your time,

Kathy

Robyn Coburn

<<<<<<The biggest concern we have is that our little guy has some disorders
that make communication difficult and affect him physically as well.
We initially had diagnoses of autism, PDD-NOS, speech disorders and
sensory integration dysfunction. Ellis is my third kiddo and I knew
from the time he was about 2 months old that he was not 'usual'.>>>>

Go directly to yahoo groups to add the ShineWithUnschooling list to your
memberships.

Read everything you can find by Anne Ohman - linked from Sandra's site -
also enjoy reading there too.

www.sandradodd.com/unschooling

<<<<< So that is how we accidentally started homeschooling - with no
forethought, no planning, no clue. The only real obsession I have is
that Ellis read, and read well. To me, that is a key to almost
everything else he will want to explore on his own. And we're book
junkies anyhow.>>>>>

You can't *force* or *impose* reading (or anything else) and expect it to
become the joyous experience and beloved skill that you experience it as and
aspire to for him. Just keep reading yourself, have a print rich
environment, and read for/to him to help him follow his interests - Trust
that he will read in his own time. If he enjoys any of the teaching reading
computer games let him do them at his own pace and in his own way, with as
much repetition as he likes, ignoring the imposed timetables and teacher
guides that sometimes come with them. Again see Sandra's site for lots about
reading.

Also these publications do reading articles a lot:

www.LiveFreeLearnFree.com (the most recent issue especially)

www.LifeLearningMagazine.com

Are your older children also home?

Robyn L. Coburn

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.16 - Release Date: 5/24/2005

soggyboysmom

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
>If he enjoys any of the teaching reading
> computer games let him do them at his own pace and in his own way,
>with as
> much repetition as he likes, ignoring the imposed timetables and
>teacher
> guides that sometimes come with them.
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
Also, let him simply goof around with those games - DS loved hitting
what he knew was a wrong answer simply because it would make silly
noises or whatever when he did. Or, by judiciously juggling correct
and incorrect answers he could make a favorite part of the game last
longer. Or whatever. He used it in his own way. So, if your DS picks a
wrong answer over and over and isn't getting frustrated (that would be
something else entirely) or stays in a particular section for awhile,
don't panic - he's just exploring in his own way and time.

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:

> Go directly to yahoo groups to add the ShineWithUnschooling list to your
> memberships.

Yes, do that. You can go to this link to join, too:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shinewithunschooling/

Anne Ohman's articles are posted on that home page, too.

As far as the video games -- a lot of atypical kids (Asperger's and
such) do extremely well with video games, and they do exactly what you
describe -- they go into that space and they're home. (Actually, you
described it as getting "lost" but I would describe it as feeling
"found.") I know of Asperger's kids who grew up to be video game testers.

It sounds like this is a real comfort zone for your son, so support
him in it. Learn the games with him, watch and read with him, read
Sandra's links about video games and how much can be learned from
them. You can still offer other things that sound fun, but just know
that these games are important to him, and they should be respected
for the part in his life that they play (no pun intended) <G>.

Peace,
Amy

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], "arcarpenter2003"
<arcarpenter@g...> wrote:
==As far as the video games -- a lot of atypical kids (Asperger's and
> such) do extremely well with video games, and they do exactly what you
> describe -- they go into that space and they're home. (Actually, you
> described it as getting "lost" but I would describe it as feeling
> "found.") I know of Asperger's kids who grew up to be video game
testers.==

I said Asperger's, then looked back at your email and you had said
autism. Fill in autistic spectrum disorder (or whatever you want to
call it) instead. <G>

Peace,
Amy

K Krejci

Thank you very much for all the suggestions and
directions to find more information. I realize I have
jumped in feet (or head?) first without the
recommended lurking time but I'm kinda bullish about
my kids.

I'll try to answer a few questions and comments that
may help clarify anything I left out in the first
novella.

Ellis LOVES to read. We used a book called 'Teach
Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons'. We made it
to about Lesson 49 when we both got bored with it and
started making up our own stories. I liked the theory
and the method. It worked for him very well and even
better when we dumped the book :) (my first hint that
'not school' was way better than 'school' at home)

Ellis is a video junkie and not in a way that I think
anyone would consider healthy, either physically or
mentally. He will shut out everything including his
own bodily functions once he encounters a screen.
It's like hypnosis of the evil swirly eyes kind - kind
of like 'Tommy' in real life. While my older boys (18
and pushing 16) were video addicts, I never had to
physically block the screen or shout loudly into their
haze just to get them to go to the bathroom. We've
had to clean furniture and carpets and floors. And
not just at home, either. It's almost scary.

Our solution is to curtail his video time to about an
hour total on any given day. That includes computer,
TV, videos, LeapPad, etc. It really makes a world of
difference. Even so, he will literally talk like a
video game with sound effects, beeps and clicks, hand
gestures (there's a name for what he does with his
hands but I can't remember it), and is almost
completely unresponsive when we speak to him,
sometimes for entire days.

I've lost track of my question/thought but hope this
may provide additional insight that can help me
continue to gather information from all of you.

Many thanks, again!

Kathy

PS: The elderkinder do not live with us but are
adored, cherished and worshipped when they do get to
be here. They're pretty terrific guys and they are
just great with Ellis.

It's Good 2 B Dog Nutz!
http://www.good2bdognutz.com



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/2005 3:52:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
kraekrej@... writes:

I realize I have
jumped in feet (or head?) first without the
recommended lurking time but I'm kinda bullish about
my kids.



----------------------------

You might really want to read a while, yet, before posting too much more.

_http://sandradodd.com/lists/info_ (http://sandradodd.com/lists/info)

-=-Our solution is to curtail his video time to about an
hour total on any given day. That includes computer,
TV, videos, LeapPad, etc. It really makes a world of
difference. Even so, he will literally talk like a
video game with sound effects, beeps and clicks, hand
gestures (there's a name for what he does with his
hands but I can't remember it), and is almost
completely unresponsive when we speak to him,
sometimes for entire days.-=-

Your solution (your family's? Yours and your son's? You and your
husband's?)?

I think at most you should call it "our current idea" because not only is it
not a solution, it might be a great problem down the line. The world of
difference might not ultimately be the world you have in mind.

People on this list can help you see more clearly what you want to have
happen, I'm sure, if you're interested.d

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wifetovegman2002

Kathy,

Hi! I'm Susan, mom of two boy-os on the autistic spectrum, and one
girlie who is not.


--- In [email protected], K Krejci <kraekrej@y...>
wrote:

> Ellis is a video junkie and not in a way that I think
> anyone would consider healthy, either physically or
> mentally.

This is not a respectful way of talking about your son's passions and
joys. You need to reconsider how you view his hobbies and likes and
dislikes, because it is through them that learning will happen.


> He will shut out everything including his
> own bodily functions once he encounters a screen.


So is he pooping and peeing in his clothes because he can't leave the
game? Refusing to eat until he is done? How about suggesting that he
take care of those things before he starts? How about fixing him a
plate of his favorite foods and serving it to him while he plays?


> It's like hypnosis of the evil swirly eyes kind - kind
> of like 'Tommy' in real life. While my older boys (18
> and pushing 16) were video addicts, I never had to
> physically block the screen or shout loudly into their
> haze just to get them to go to the bathroom. We've
> had to clean furniture and carpets and floors. And
> not just at home, either. It's almost scary.


Are your older children also autistic? It isn't really fair to
compare children anyway, but comparing a child with a neurological
difference to his older neurologically typical siblings really isn't
fair at all.

Also, computer/video games weren't the same then when they were your
son's age as they are now, either. It sounds from your word choice
more like you are the one that has decided that video games are evil.


> Our solution is to curtail his video time to about an
> hour total on any given day. That includes computer,
> TV, videos, LeapPad, etc. It really makes a world of
> difference.


One hour isn't enough to even watch one whole Disney video. 30
minutes isn't usually even enough to finish one level in most advanced
video games and defeat the boss and get to a point where the game can
be saved.

What are you doing while he is engaged in these activities? What does
he do for the other 23 hours in a day?


> Even so, he will literally talk like a
> video game with sound effects, beeps and clicks, hand
> gestures (there's a name for what he does with his
> hands but I can't remember it), and is almost
> completely unresponsive when we speak to him,
> sometimes for entire days.


LOL! This sounds so much like my son Aaron. Even his pretend play
with figures always sounds like a video game, complete with levels,
hit points, and bosses. He will set up an incredible scenario and
have my assigned little toy go through it complete with battles. Some
day he might be an awesome computer game creator.

However, lots of little boys sound like walking video games. I have
read that over 80% of the verbalization that small boys make are just
sounds like bangs, whistles, swooshing swords, crashing hot wheels, etc.

Limiting my sons' time with computers and video games backfired big
time. It caused them, in a typically Aspie way, to obsess about their
time on the games down to the last second, and when they weren't
allowed to play, their mind was obsessing about the game, thinking
about when they would be allowed to play again and what they would do.
Often they would retreat and then when we asked what they were
thinking about it was the game.

Releasing the limits actually freed my boys from that bondage.
Knowing that they could play their games as much as they really wanted
to helped them let go of the obsessing and anxiety, they could
complete their games and then put down the controller and walk away
feeling happy and satisfied and go on to something else. They could
also choose not to play, knowing that later they would be able to pick
it up if they wanted to.

Getting a DVR meant that they could tape the shows they love if we are
busy outside the house and didn't spend the entire outing worrying
about what they were missing or if we would get home in time, and
could enjoy the activity.

Instead of limiting the video games, you *could* use them as a way to
connect with your autistic son, to draw him into a world where you are
interested and talking to him about the games, and building a
relationship with him.

We use the Sims and Sims 2 character maker as a way to help Aaron
focus on people's faces and expressions. He sits on his older
sister's lap while playing, and they laugh and talk and hug and
discuss the people they make and how they look and make decisions
about clothes and hair and their expressions and such.

Aaron and I play a game while we are playing Pokemon Colesseum where
we both cross our fingers and chant, "pretty please" together,
(sometimes fast, sometimes slowly, sometimes loudly, sometimes softly)
until we know whether or not the pokemon we are trying to catch will
stay in the poke ball. This is called emotion sharing and referencing
in therapy circles, where the activities are artificial and designed
to emphasize these things, but for us, it is just part of our
enjoyment of an activity together.

So my suggestion would be that instead of seeing his joys and passions
and hobbies as something that interferes with your relationship with
him, start seeing them as possibly a place to start to connect. It
will overflow into other areas.


~ Susan
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html

"Isn't it splendid to think of all the things there are to find out
about? It just makes me feel glad to be alive -- it's such an
interesting world." Anne of Green Gables ~ Lucy Montgomery

Robyn Coburn

<<<< So my suggestion would be that instead of seeing his joys and passions
and hobbies as something that interferes with your relationship with
him, start seeing them as possibly a place to start to connect. It
will overflow into other areas.>>>>>

Susan,

Have you considered turning this post into an article for Live Free, Learn
Free or Life Learning Mag? It is beautifully expressed and very informative
too.

Robyn L. Coburn

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 5/25/2005

wifetovegman2002

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:

> Susan,
>
> Have you considered turning this post into an article for Live Free,
Learn
> Free or Life Learning Mag? It is beautifully expressed and very
informative
> too.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn



Oh gosh, thank you! I will think about it. Things are so hectic here
right now. But I will file it in my "possible articles" folder.

~Susan

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], "wifetovegman2002"
<wifetovegman2002@y...> wrote:
==
> > He will shut out everything including his
> > own bodily functions once he encounters a screen.
>
>
> So is he pooping and peeing in his clothes because he can't leave the
> game? Refusing to eat until he is done? How about suggesting that he
> take care of those things before he starts? How about fixing him a
> plate of his favorite foods and serving it to him while he plays?==

Susan's whole post is great -- I hope you read it a few times and
really let it sink in. I just wanted to speak to the bathroom accidents.

My son has not been diagnosed with any ASDs (autistic spectrum
disorders)or anything else, but he has definitely had problems with
bathroom accidents while playing video games. He has also had them
while playing other really involved games, usually with other kids.
But yes, he's had them the most when playing video games.

The things that have helped the most were time, growth and
development, and unlimited access to video games. A few months after
we did away with all the limits, and just kept reminding him that it
was okay to pause, because he could play the game for as long as he
wanted, whenever he wanted, the accidents were greatly reduced (he was
6 and 1/2 at the time). It took a few months for him to really get
it, and for him to trust us. Now that he's almost 8, it almost never
happens, and it's not a huge deal if it does.

But the other thing I've noticed is that the accidents tended to go in
cycles. He wouldn't have any for a long time, and then he would start
having them again. I finally decided that this was part of his growth
process -- he could hold it for longer as he got older, but as he was
practicing holding it longer, he would overreach his limit and have an
accident. Then he would get used to his new "abilities" and things
would normalize for a while.

I know (from lists and in real life) of quite a few other kids, some
from completely unschooled families and some not, who have a tendency
to these accidents, some until they were 10 or so. It seems to be a
mix of how their bodies work and of getting so involved with what
they're doing, they forget to go. The parents just gently work with
them, assure them that whatever it is will be there when they come
back, help them clean up if needed (my son usually washed out his own
pants and cleaned up after himself -- it helped him feel more
independent), and let them know when they need to change clothes.

Gently and nicely -- a good way to go in most situations. <g>

Peace,
Amy

Pam Sorooshian

My sister had problems like this up to the time she was about 10 or 11
years old, when we were children in the 50's/60's - no video games
then, she was just intensely involved in playing with other kids out in
the our neighborhood. She regularly ignored her body signals until it
was too late. To my dismay and embarrassment!

-pam

On May 27, 2005, at 6:23 AM, arcarpenter2003 wrote:

> My son has not been diagnosed with any ASDs (autistic spectrum
> disorders)or anything else, but he has definitely had problems with
> bathroom accidents while playing video games. He has also had them
> while playing other really involved games, usually with other kids.
> But yes, he's had them the most when playing video games.