long exchange about a teen (longest post EVER)
[email protected]
[INTRO: I'm not saying this is about an unschooled teen, but it's a teen in
an unschooling family. I've tried to take out identifying stuff, so if you
know who it is, don't blurt that out; it's not a contest to identify the
author. <g> If anyone responds, oh PLEASE, please don't quote the whole thing
post accidentally or on purpose either.]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[a mom wrote:]
We've been following the unschooling lifestyle for two and a half years
now. For [all but one of my several kids], I am at peace. I see fruit in
their
lives and they are also satisfied with how they are learning. It's been
a rich lifestyle.
What's odd is that the kid who sort of propelled me in that direction
is the one I'm most worried about as an unschooler.
It's [the oldest boy]. He's almost 18. This last year he decided to work,
act in a
play, play Magic and spend time online learning Klingon. He didn't do
anything schooly at all (even though he had been told to take chemistry
and language for college admissions). I was cool with that. Felt he
would come to the decision to take them or not as he gained clarity. In
addition, he plays around a bit on the guitar and the piano. He reads
some, though not nearly as much or as widely as he did a year or two
ago. And he's devoted to the X box. :)
We set no curfew but asked him to call to let us know where and when he
was anywhere. He's been great about that. He did, however, flip his
schedule and we saw him very little as he tended to stay up all night
and sleep during the days. He was often out with friends much older
than him (early twenties). His job sometimes required him to work in
the mornings and so did Shakespeare rehearsals so when those happened,
he'd get sick from not sleeping enough. He depended on caffeine to keep
him going.
In the last several months, a few things have occurred that give me
angst. I remember you once said about Kirby that you hoped he didn't
become an unschooler who went on to be a bum. :) That rang true here.
[Kid's name...] has made some not very good decisions this year... ....
[censored part, nothing illegal, just sensitive info],
got a speeding
ticket that resulted in a one month suspension of his license plus a
restricted license for two weeks (he got this ticket on his way to
"break up" with that girl), he became addicted to Mountain Dew (seven a
day) and after having had no cavities for his whole life, now has $2700
worth of restoration work ahead of him (something like fifteen
cavities). Our insurance will cover $800 of it, we pay the rest. And
then his wisdom teeth have to come out (after he's off insurance at
18). He was supposed to go to the dentist all year but kept putting it
off, even when I tried to schedule it for him, something always came
up.
His room is the typical teen disaster and we've left it to him. But he
states repeatedly that while he doesn't mind (on the one hand) he then
blames his room for not being able to do things he says he wants to do
(like writing an application essay for a college he said he wanted to
go to). As far as we're concerned, he doesn't have to go to college.
But we do need him to have some kind of interest or drive that gives
evidence to a future (or at least a meantime plan).
He complains of feeling like he's never accomplished anything, he
thinks he isn't capable like students in school (not true - his natural
intelligence is high and he does surprisingly well on the ACT/SAT
tests), and he talks like he isn't ever going to be able to hold down a
job or sustain work in a classroom format. He believes he can't sustain
his attention unless he is riveted and even then, he needs lots of
breaks and changes of pace to keep from getting too bored. He says that
the Internet is like an addiction.
Yesterday we attended a graduation party for our best friend's youngest
daughter. He realized that he hasn't had a party like this (had said he
didn't want one back when we discussed it) and then started saying how
he wouldn't have enough friends to come to something like this and that
he hasn't achieved anything and has nowhere to go next. Yet even as we
talk, he ends up resisting any ideas for direction or steps to take in
the meantime.
It feels like his life ran out of control this year and at the end, he
doesn't see himself as having anything to show for it. Yet even with
his tears and depressed reports, he is also not motivated to change
anything about his life. He says he would be fine just going on this
way.
I am completely flummoxed on what to do next. We can't simply continue
as is. But I also only hear suggestions from parents who come from a
very different approach. If you have any insight for me, I'd sorely
appreciate it
==========================================
I sent two e-mails in a row late last night:
==========================================
The same kinds of things happen with kids who graduated from high school,
and the same kinds of things (and much much worse) happen to kids who've gotten
into college on scholarships and take a tailspin for some reason.
-=- We can't simply continue as is.-=-
For how long and why not?
He's 18. He's not 23.
My husband got his degree at 30. Just as with late reading, nobody would
know who works with him. An earlier degree doesn't make a better engineer.
I think you're worrying too hard too early. The dental stuff is a bummer.
Why isn't he still on insurance at 18? Would enrolling in school fulltime
get him back on insurance? Can you clean his room for him?
I offered a couple of Kirby's friends money to help him clean his room when
he was 17. They did a big re-org. Could he trade rooms with another kid or
with a less-used room so that a full move was require and he could
reorganize as it went?
Could you and he make a list of things he wants to do? Some people love
lists. Some don't.
Wisdom teeth have to come out of most people and that's not an unschooling
issue. I got mine out late in my last year of college to get it on my dad's
insurance, and it wasn't a good time as far as tests and finals went.
Can you get your son out away from the house and the phone and the X-Box for
half a day or a day or two so you can talk?
Sandra
================and the 2nd one from me===================
I thought of something else:
-=-We've been following the unschooling lifestyle for two and a half years
now. For four of my five kids, I am at peace. I see fruit in their
lives and they are also satisfied with how they are learning. It's been
a rich lifestyle.
-=-What's odd is that the kid who sort of propelled me in that direction
is the one I'm most worried about as an unschooler.-=-
Because he was in school/schooled so long, unschooling might not have really
taken, deep inside him. He's probably looking at himself as a dropout
rather than a full-on unschooler. That probably can't be helped.
But there are tons of dropouts who do well, so even if he continues to feel
he might've, should've done differently, that doesn't mean something cool and
interesting won't come along. And cool and interesting things ARE in his
life, right?
Do you feel he would have done better by staying in school?
If not, start there and run your simulations and scenarios, not from last
week.
What were your options and what will the results of your choices be? Are
you expecting him to be back on, or parallel to, the assembly line you took
him off of?
Sandra
=========================================
Sandra, thanks for this. I'm mulling it over.
I feel like we've talked endlessly with [him], alone, together, with
openness and love. [DH] took him away for a weekend to see [a band] out
of town and they talked the whole time. I spend hours with [my son] going
over these kinds of issues. And it's not just me bringing them up. This
last time it was him, sort of bad talking himself and comparing himself
to our best friends. It breaks my heart. If I felt he was happy, I
think I could bear it all. I have been all year. But now things are
hitting the skids.
He's our most consuming child. He was in school for three classes total
out of the rest of his life over a two year period. He decided against
that this year and has not done anything school related, even lacrosse.
We have had him on less of a schedule than any of the other kids all
along. He loved the whole concept of unschooling and embraced it
immediately. What he has had a hard time with, though, is that he does
compare himself to his friends (Magic, other homeschooled kids, kids
from his old lacrosse team) and sees himself as not having accomplished
anything. Even when I discuss with him what I see as his
accomplishments, he dismisses them saying he never really makes
progress, never completes anything, just investigates until the urge
wears off. And if it gets too hard, he quits.
We have had friends come and clean out his room. I've cleaned it. His
dad has cleaned it. It returns to the previous state quickly. I have
not nagged. Ironically as a kid (under 12), he was a total neat nik and
would work really hard to keep his collections perfectly displayed,
he'd spend hours listening to books on tape and organizing his room. He
had to have everything in its right place. Not sure what changed.
Neither is he.
He is calling himself a drop-out, that's for sure. My attempts to help
him see himself differently don't seem to be working.
I thought cool and interesting things were in his life.
For instance, he is in this Shakespeare play. He's been in rehearsals
for a full year every week, once a week. Yet he told me yesterday that
he still doesn't have his lines nailed (even though the performances
are in ten days). I ask why. He says he just forgets. But when he comes
home from rehearsals, he is the happiest person alive. He absolutely
loves it.
I remind him to study lines. He says, "Okay!" Then he goes upstairs and
forgets everything. It drives me bananas.
He love Magic for the deck assembly and plays, but it's been like a
money hole for him. He drafts, he rarely wins or moves past the first
round, said he wanted to be a judge, started down that road and then
has dropped it.
He likes invented languages. He studies them, sort of. I have thought
he's done more than he has. He tells me that in fact he is more playing
with them.
I just don't know Sandra.
I don't want him on an assembly line. What I want is to see that he is
happy (right now he is not), that he is meaningfully engaged in his own
life (whatever he chooses), that he has some kind of understanding of
the future beyond three days out (this can include college or not,
working fulltime at [the convenience store] or choosing to invest his time
in some
interest that he wants to develop).
Right now, it looks more like he is withdrawing from life in favor of
distraction for safety (to not have to grow up). And he tells me he
can't imagine ever getting there.
I know you're busy so if you have said all you meant to, that's fine. I
am going to think through your comments again. I want to explore what
other ways of being 18 might be cool with us and with him.
===============================================
(me to her)
In a message dated 5/23/2005 6:44:09 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
[correspondent] writes:
He's our most consuming child. He was in school for three classes total
out of the rest of his life over a two year period. He decided against
that this year and has not done anything school related,
So really he's never been out of school until this last year?
Then this doesn't count at all (in my opinion, with limited knowledge) as an
unschooling situation.
-=-If I felt he was happy, I
think I could bear it all. I have been all year. But now things are
hitting the skids.
-=-
He's in a play. He has a job. He's addicted to... crack? heroin? alcohol?
No, you said Mountain Dew.
-=-He loved the whole concept of unschooling and embraced it
immediately. What he has had a hard time with, though, is that he does
compare himself -=-
Well then he liked the idea, "the whole concept," but he was still in
school, and is still seeing himself as one of those (a failed "one of those").
You can't back up and live it again. You have to live through it.
Talking to him isn't helping. Maybe try NOT talking to him about it. Talk
to him about other, real things. I have the feeling your displeasure and
worry is oozing out.
-=-Even when I discuss with him what I see as his
accomplishments, he dismisses them saying he never really makes
progress, never completes anything, just investigates until the urge
wears off. And if it gets too hard, he quits.=-
I do that. Lots of people do that. The VAST majority of them are over 18.
Some people have held ten or twenty different jobs in their lives. It's not
a crime. It makes their conversations fascinating and they often know how
to fix their own plumbing and cars and electricity because they didn't spend
their whole lives refolding the sweaters at JCPenney's.
Stability is overrated. "Purpose" is overrated. They have to evolve
naturally, and poking them and talking to them doesn't help.
-=-We have had friends come and clean out his room. I've cleaned it. His
dad has cleaned it. It returns to the previous state quickly. I have
not nagged. Ironically as a kid (under 12), he was a total neat nik and
would work really hard to keep his collections perfectly displayed,
he'd spend hours listening to books on tape and organizing his room. He
had to have everything in its right place. Not sure what changed.
-=-
Puberty and maturity? If there were not a natural desire to find one's
parents' home crowding and limiting, everyone would live with his parents. Maybe
when he was 12 it really felt like his big space, and now it feels like his
little old dusty nest that he needs to grow out of.
-=-
He is calling himself a drop-out, that's for sure. My attempts to help
him see himself differently don't seem to be working.-=-
They might be making it worse.
-=-I thought cool and interesting things were in his life.-=-
If they were a little while back, they will be again.
I think you're standing too close and rocking and talking instead of backing
up, being still, looking at the sky, having some tea, singing happy songs,
and letting a day pass. And then live a full week, as peacefully and as
happily as you can.
My mom went to AA for nine years before she decided to just blow it off and
drink for the rest of her life. One thing they say there that sounds funny
and horrible at first is profoundly true. If someone in a meeting is going on
and on about the past and the future, someone will say "You have one foot in
the past and one foot in the future and you're pissing all over today."
Rough image, but looking at your e-mail it's all about how much better
things were and how awful they're going to be.
-=-I remind him to study lines. He says, "Okay!" Then he goes upstairs and
forgets everything-=-
"Study" in that schoolish way that doesn't work?
You remind him, and he goes upstairs and forgets to do something fruitless?
Read through with him and see what parts he does know and what he doesn't.
Photocopy the script so you or he (or both) can mark up a practice copy.
Where there's a scene he really doesn't know, maybe record it through,
reading the other parts, and have him read farther from the microphone than you do
so he can play that back and try to fill in his own lines.
Maybe that's not what will work for him, but what you've done so far for a
year didn't do it.
-=-He love Magic for the deck assembly and plays, but it's been like a
money hole for him. He drafts, he rarely wins or moves past the first
round, said he wanted to be a judge, started down that road and then
has dropped it.-=-
Some people buy every book in a series, or collect comics, or ski, or
maintain expensive bikes or skate boards, or collect pewter miniatures, or Avon
bottles, or action figures. If he LOVES any aspect of it, why would being a
judge be better than just playing?
What is better to put money into than something he loves, that provides him
social activity, that involves really complex thought...
-=-He likes invented languages. He studies them, sort of. I have thought
he's done more than he has. He tells me that in fact he is more playing
with them.-=-
You should be discussing these things on the list, honestly. I hate to do
all this writing and it not go to a larger group. And you would get ideas
from lots of people, not just one.
-=-He likes invented languages. He studies them, sort of. I have thought
he's done more than he has. He tells me that in fact he is more playing
with them.-=-
This is very, very bad.
It's bad that you think playing is not learning.
You think "study" has to be more than "sort of."
You think MORE messing around with Klingon or Elvish would be better than
less.
You think MORE Magic playing would be better than less.
-=-What I want is to see that he is
happy (right now he is not),-=-
It might be telling to see that you don't want him to BE happy, as much as
you state that you (yourself) want to see (yourself) that he is happy. You
can say I'm being picky or that that's not what you mean, but I think a lot of
the communication is about you, and yet (as with the lines for the play, or as
with his room not being clean enough for essay writing) you're not actively
helping, but just reminding him.
-=- I want is to see that he is
has some kind of understanding of
the future beyond three days out -=-
He is eighteen years old. Back off.
You're going by the clock and calendar instead of by his actual readiness.
If he were fifteen and not ready, you wouldn't be pressuring him. He's
eighteen so the pressure is on. You have him on an assembly line with a big
timer and you're denying it.
-=-(this can include college or not,
working fulltime at Speedway or choosing to invest his time in some
interest that he wants to develop).-=-
What if he invests his time in interests in the moment?
If he should only invest his time in interests he wants to develop, you
cripple him and misjudge his fleeting interests. (Or at least you JUDGE them,
mis- or not.)
-=-Right now, it looks more like he is withdrawing from life in favor of
distraction for safety (to not have to grow up). -=-
When kids are not ready to use the toilet, are they withdrawing to not have
to grow up?
When Holly didn't read at the age of ten, was she withdrawing to not have to
grow up?
When Keith my husband didn't finish college at 22, was he withdrawing from
live to not have to grow up?
-=-I want to explore what other ways of being 18 might be cool with us and
with him.
-=-
But you are not 18.
You would probably do MUCH, much better to accept the way of being himself
that is happening this moment. If he's asleep, that is a way of being.
Everyone should sleep. I wish I had slept LOTS more last night. You shouldn't be
exploring ways to be 18. You should be living a rich life and smiling at
him and giving him good food and rent movies he likes and let him live through
whatever he's living through, because that's all people can do. Pressure
from the outside makes the inside angst feel worse.
Distraction can be a virtue, but you've condemned the distracting things
he's doing as not what YOU are cool with.
-=-In other words, I know we can come up with the extra money for
insurance, he can live with us, we can still pay for most of his life,
even his mistake of rotting fifteen teeth. Mistakes happen.=-
This fifteen teeth thing isn't about unschooling whatsoever, and you know
that.
For one thing, he wasn't unschooled. For another thing, if he has fifteen
cavities, when's the last time you took him to the dentist, or bought him a
cool new toothbrush and some new toothpaste? They have orange flavored now.
Cavities might not even BE from not brushing, though. He might have systemic
problems. Does he take vitamins? Could you spend some of your nervous
mom-energy looking up alternative theories on teeth?
If you can pay extra to keep him on insurance or buy him insurance and you
KNOW a big bill is coming up, why are you talking to me?
-=-If he continues to live the life he's living as he is, is there a time
to worry that he's needing to go beyond that world of X box, Internet
and shallow friendships? Is his self-reporting about not being able to
focus or imagine a future ever a concern we should address?-=-
Haven't you or your husband ever had restless, angsty periods of time where
you didn't know what was going to happen next and it was uncomfortable?
Think back as clearly as you can about that, and if you have no memories to think
back on, consider what would keep you from remembering your teen years.
Some people block out HUGE chunks of their lives. But if you can remember,
weren't there times you were jittery and felt like you were spinning your wheels?
Does a background noise about what you should be doing help?
-=-If he continues to live the life he's living as he is, is there a time
to worry that he's needing to go beyond that world of X box, Internet
and shallow friendships?=-
You seem to feel the time is now.
Some people don't even have shallow friendships.
Have you done much reading about codependency? Your life seems to be
sucking because you(yourself) don't like the level or quality of your son's
friendships.
And "the world of internet" is the whole big world. There are people and
ideas, art and music there.
Sandra
===============================================
(her to me)
Thanks so much. Really.
I am forwarding all you said to my husband. I think you have given me
insight into myself that I hadn't seen. So thank you. Really.
[mom's name pulled, and don't EVEN try to guess <bwg>]
------------------------------------
P.S. If you want to forward this discussion to the list, that's fine
with me. I haven't had the time to be able to keep up with all the
directions it would go. I'm about to go out of town.
A few things stand out to me from your email which I reread several
times already.
I am too busy.
I am too worried and communicate it.
I have bought into a timeline for adulthood.
The money for the teeth (of which we will pay $2000 regardless of
insurance) threw me for a total loop and worried me... I wondered what
it meant instead of just figuring out how to pay for it.
I need to back off again and fill [his] life with affirming love, and
joy in his interests, not with worry and talks.
It seems obvious when you write it, but not so obvious when I live it.
Again, thank you.
===============
In a message dated 5/23/2005 9:30:24 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [same mom]
writes:
It seems obvious when you write it, but not so obvious when I live it.
But I'm far away from it and you were dropping all those glaring verbal
clues. <g>
Maybe the best longterm thing you can do is to practice whatever tricks work
for you for being more objective about what's happening in your own life. I
don't like to be objective about the way I treat my husband sometimes, and
just realizing that I'm blocking that from my objective view tells me I'm
feeling guilty or grouchy or something, and that's valuable information too.
So if you can keep building tricks for scanning your life "from a distance"
(somehow) you can find your own glaring clues.
I might take some of the anonymous looking stuff and post it. I don't want
to post it from the beginning, because you wrote just to me and that would
seem cruel. You can go in and fess up later that it was you if that would seem
helpful to others, or just let it be there as is. I'll probably just put a
bit of the last stuff, at unschooling.com, and thanks for okaying that.
=========================================
===============
back to this list, end of quotes:
I left that last paragraph just for balance. <g> When I looked back
through, it didn't seem so harsh as a full set, and I think the situation will get
better with the family really soon (probably already has), so other than
editing out all the names (I HOPE) and pulling one story, the full set seems
better than the end only.
The only clarification I want to make is that it might've seemed I was
suggesting less Klingon or less Magic cards would be better than more. I'm not.
Neither is more better than less. He should do just as much of either as he
wants to, without the mom's happiness and hopes hingeing on it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
an unschooling family. I've tried to take out identifying stuff, so if you
know who it is, don't blurt that out; it's not a contest to identify the
author. <g> If anyone responds, oh PLEASE, please don't quote the whole thing
post accidentally or on purpose either.]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[a mom wrote:]
We've been following the unschooling lifestyle for two and a half years
now. For [all but one of my several kids], I am at peace. I see fruit in
their
lives and they are also satisfied with how they are learning. It's been
a rich lifestyle.
What's odd is that the kid who sort of propelled me in that direction
is the one I'm most worried about as an unschooler.
It's [the oldest boy]. He's almost 18. This last year he decided to work,
act in a
play, play Magic and spend time online learning Klingon. He didn't do
anything schooly at all (even though he had been told to take chemistry
and language for college admissions). I was cool with that. Felt he
would come to the decision to take them or not as he gained clarity. In
addition, he plays around a bit on the guitar and the piano. He reads
some, though not nearly as much or as widely as he did a year or two
ago. And he's devoted to the X box. :)
We set no curfew but asked him to call to let us know where and when he
was anywhere. He's been great about that. He did, however, flip his
schedule and we saw him very little as he tended to stay up all night
and sleep during the days. He was often out with friends much older
than him (early twenties). His job sometimes required him to work in
the mornings and so did Shakespeare rehearsals so when those happened,
he'd get sick from not sleeping enough. He depended on caffeine to keep
him going.
In the last several months, a few things have occurred that give me
angst. I remember you once said about Kirby that you hoped he didn't
become an unschooler who went on to be a bum. :) That rang true here.
[Kid's name...] has made some not very good decisions this year... ....
[censored part, nothing illegal, just sensitive info],
got a speeding
ticket that resulted in a one month suspension of his license plus a
restricted license for two weeks (he got this ticket on his way to
"break up" with that girl), he became addicted to Mountain Dew (seven a
day) and after having had no cavities for his whole life, now has $2700
worth of restoration work ahead of him (something like fifteen
cavities). Our insurance will cover $800 of it, we pay the rest. And
then his wisdom teeth have to come out (after he's off insurance at
18). He was supposed to go to the dentist all year but kept putting it
off, even when I tried to schedule it for him, something always came
up.
His room is the typical teen disaster and we've left it to him. But he
states repeatedly that while he doesn't mind (on the one hand) he then
blames his room for not being able to do things he says he wants to do
(like writing an application essay for a college he said he wanted to
go to). As far as we're concerned, he doesn't have to go to college.
But we do need him to have some kind of interest or drive that gives
evidence to a future (or at least a meantime plan).
He complains of feeling like he's never accomplished anything, he
thinks he isn't capable like students in school (not true - his natural
intelligence is high and he does surprisingly well on the ACT/SAT
tests), and he talks like he isn't ever going to be able to hold down a
job or sustain work in a classroom format. He believes he can't sustain
his attention unless he is riveted and even then, he needs lots of
breaks and changes of pace to keep from getting too bored. He says that
the Internet is like an addiction.
Yesterday we attended a graduation party for our best friend's youngest
daughter. He realized that he hasn't had a party like this (had said he
didn't want one back when we discussed it) and then started saying how
he wouldn't have enough friends to come to something like this and that
he hasn't achieved anything and has nowhere to go next. Yet even as we
talk, he ends up resisting any ideas for direction or steps to take in
the meantime.
It feels like his life ran out of control this year and at the end, he
doesn't see himself as having anything to show for it. Yet even with
his tears and depressed reports, he is also not motivated to change
anything about his life. He says he would be fine just going on this
way.
I am completely flummoxed on what to do next. We can't simply continue
as is. But I also only hear suggestions from parents who come from a
very different approach. If you have any insight for me, I'd sorely
appreciate it
==========================================
I sent two e-mails in a row late last night:
==========================================
The same kinds of things happen with kids who graduated from high school,
and the same kinds of things (and much much worse) happen to kids who've gotten
into college on scholarships and take a tailspin for some reason.
-=- We can't simply continue as is.-=-
For how long and why not?
He's 18. He's not 23.
My husband got his degree at 30. Just as with late reading, nobody would
know who works with him. An earlier degree doesn't make a better engineer.
I think you're worrying too hard too early. The dental stuff is a bummer.
Why isn't he still on insurance at 18? Would enrolling in school fulltime
get him back on insurance? Can you clean his room for him?
I offered a couple of Kirby's friends money to help him clean his room when
he was 17. They did a big re-org. Could he trade rooms with another kid or
with a less-used room so that a full move was require and he could
reorganize as it went?
Could you and he make a list of things he wants to do? Some people love
lists. Some don't.
Wisdom teeth have to come out of most people and that's not an unschooling
issue. I got mine out late in my last year of college to get it on my dad's
insurance, and it wasn't a good time as far as tests and finals went.
Can you get your son out away from the house and the phone and the X-Box for
half a day or a day or two so you can talk?
Sandra
================and the 2nd one from me===================
I thought of something else:
-=-We've been following the unschooling lifestyle for two and a half years
now. For four of my five kids, I am at peace. I see fruit in their
lives and they are also satisfied with how they are learning. It's been
a rich lifestyle.
-=-What's odd is that the kid who sort of propelled me in that direction
is the one I'm most worried about as an unschooler.-=-
Because he was in school/schooled so long, unschooling might not have really
taken, deep inside him. He's probably looking at himself as a dropout
rather than a full-on unschooler. That probably can't be helped.
But there are tons of dropouts who do well, so even if he continues to feel
he might've, should've done differently, that doesn't mean something cool and
interesting won't come along. And cool and interesting things ARE in his
life, right?
Do you feel he would have done better by staying in school?
If not, start there and run your simulations and scenarios, not from last
week.
What were your options and what will the results of your choices be? Are
you expecting him to be back on, or parallel to, the assembly line you took
him off of?
Sandra
=========================================
Sandra, thanks for this. I'm mulling it over.
I feel like we've talked endlessly with [him], alone, together, with
openness and love. [DH] took him away for a weekend to see [a band] out
of town and they talked the whole time. I spend hours with [my son] going
over these kinds of issues. And it's not just me bringing them up. This
last time it was him, sort of bad talking himself and comparing himself
to our best friends. It breaks my heart. If I felt he was happy, I
think I could bear it all. I have been all year. But now things are
hitting the skids.
He's our most consuming child. He was in school for three classes total
out of the rest of his life over a two year period. He decided against
that this year and has not done anything school related, even lacrosse.
We have had him on less of a schedule than any of the other kids all
along. He loved the whole concept of unschooling and embraced it
immediately. What he has had a hard time with, though, is that he does
compare himself to his friends (Magic, other homeschooled kids, kids
from his old lacrosse team) and sees himself as not having accomplished
anything. Even when I discuss with him what I see as his
accomplishments, he dismisses them saying he never really makes
progress, never completes anything, just investigates until the urge
wears off. And if it gets too hard, he quits.
We have had friends come and clean out his room. I've cleaned it. His
dad has cleaned it. It returns to the previous state quickly. I have
not nagged. Ironically as a kid (under 12), he was a total neat nik and
would work really hard to keep his collections perfectly displayed,
he'd spend hours listening to books on tape and organizing his room. He
had to have everything in its right place. Not sure what changed.
Neither is he.
He is calling himself a drop-out, that's for sure. My attempts to help
him see himself differently don't seem to be working.
I thought cool and interesting things were in his life.
For instance, he is in this Shakespeare play. He's been in rehearsals
for a full year every week, once a week. Yet he told me yesterday that
he still doesn't have his lines nailed (even though the performances
are in ten days). I ask why. He says he just forgets. But when he comes
home from rehearsals, he is the happiest person alive. He absolutely
loves it.
I remind him to study lines. He says, "Okay!" Then he goes upstairs and
forgets everything. It drives me bananas.
He love Magic for the deck assembly and plays, but it's been like a
money hole for him. He drafts, he rarely wins or moves past the first
round, said he wanted to be a judge, started down that road and then
has dropped it.
He likes invented languages. He studies them, sort of. I have thought
he's done more than he has. He tells me that in fact he is more playing
with them.
I just don't know Sandra.
I don't want him on an assembly line. What I want is to see that he is
happy (right now he is not), that he is meaningfully engaged in his own
life (whatever he chooses), that he has some kind of understanding of
the future beyond three days out (this can include college or not,
working fulltime at [the convenience store] or choosing to invest his time
in some
interest that he wants to develop).
Right now, it looks more like he is withdrawing from life in favor of
distraction for safety (to not have to grow up). And he tells me he
can't imagine ever getting there.
I know you're busy so if you have said all you meant to, that's fine. I
am going to think through your comments again. I want to explore what
other ways of being 18 might be cool with us and with him.
===============================================
(me to her)
In a message dated 5/23/2005 6:44:09 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
[correspondent] writes:
He's our most consuming child. He was in school for three classes total
out of the rest of his life over a two year period. He decided against
that this year and has not done anything school related,
So really he's never been out of school until this last year?
Then this doesn't count at all (in my opinion, with limited knowledge) as an
unschooling situation.
-=-If I felt he was happy, I
think I could bear it all. I have been all year. But now things are
hitting the skids.
-=-
He's in a play. He has a job. He's addicted to... crack? heroin? alcohol?
No, you said Mountain Dew.
-=-He loved the whole concept of unschooling and embraced it
immediately. What he has had a hard time with, though, is that he does
compare himself -=-
Well then he liked the idea, "the whole concept," but he was still in
school, and is still seeing himself as one of those (a failed "one of those").
You can't back up and live it again. You have to live through it.
Talking to him isn't helping. Maybe try NOT talking to him about it. Talk
to him about other, real things. I have the feeling your displeasure and
worry is oozing out.
-=-Even when I discuss with him what I see as his
accomplishments, he dismisses them saying he never really makes
progress, never completes anything, just investigates until the urge
wears off. And if it gets too hard, he quits.=-
I do that. Lots of people do that. The VAST majority of them are over 18.
Some people have held ten or twenty different jobs in their lives. It's not
a crime. It makes their conversations fascinating and they often know how
to fix their own plumbing and cars and electricity because they didn't spend
their whole lives refolding the sweaters at JCPenney's.
Stability is overrated. "Purpose" is overrated. They have to evolve
naturally, and poking them and talking to them doesn't help.
-=-We have had friends come and clean out his room. I've cleaned it. His
dad has cleaned it. It returns to the previous state quickly. I have
not nagged. Ironically as a kid (under 12), he was a total neat nik and
would work really hard to keep his collections perfectly displayed,
he'd spend hours listening to books on tape and organizing his room. He
had to have everything in its right place. Not sure what changed.
-=-
Puberty and maturity? If there were not a natural desire to find one's
parents' home crowding and limiting, everyone would live with his parents. Maybe
when he was 12 it really felt like his big space, and now it feels like his
little old dusty nest that he needs to grow out of.
-=-
He is calling himself a drop-out, that's for sure. My attempts to help
him see himself differently don't seem to be working.-=-
They might be making it worse.
-=-I thought cool and interesting things were in his life.-=-
If they were a little while back, they will be again.
I think you're standing too close and rocking and talking instead of backing
up, being still, looking at the sky, having some tea, singing happy songs,
and letting a day pass. And then live a full week, as peacefully and as
happily as you can.
My mom went to AA for nine years before she decided to just blow it off and
drink for the rest of her life. One thing they say there that sounds funny
and horrible at first is profoundly true. If someone in a meeting is going on
and on about the past and the future, someone will say "You have one foot in
the past and one foot in the future and you're pissing all over today."
Rough image, but looking at your e-mail it's all about how much better
things were and how awful they're going to be.
-=-I remind him to study lines. He says, "Okay!" Then he goes upstairs and
forgets everything-=-
"Study" in that schoolish way that doesn't work?
You remind him, and he goes upstairs and forgets to do something fruitless?
Read through with him and see what parts he does know and what he doesn't.
Photocopy the script so you or he (or both) can mark up a practice copy.
Where there's a scene he really doesn't know, maybe record it through,
reading the other parts, and have him read farther from the microphone than you do
so he can play that back and try to fill in his own lines.
Maybe that's not what will work for him, but what you've done so far for a
year didn't do it.
-=-He love Magic for the deck assembly and plays, but it's been like a
money hole for him. He drafts, he rarely wins or moves past the first
round, said he wanted to be a judge, started down that road and then
has dropped it.-=-
Some people buy every book in a series, or collect comics, or ski, or
maintain expensive bikes or skate boards, or collect pewter miniatures, or Avon
bottles, or action figures. If he LOVES any aspect of it, why would being a
judge be better than just playing?
What is better to put money into than something he loves, that provides him
social activity, that involves really complex thought...
-=-He likes invented languages. He studies them, sort of. I have thought
he's done more than he has. He tells me that in fact he is more playing
with them.-=-
You should be discussing these things on the list, honestly. I hate to do
all this writing and it not go to a larger group. And you would get ideas
from lots of people, not just one.
-=-He likes invented languages. He studies them, sort of. I have thought
he's done more than he has. He tells me that in fact he is more playing
with them.-=-
This is very, very bad.
It's bad that you think playing is not learning.
You think "study" has to be more than "sort of."
You think MORE messing around with Klingon or Elvish would be better than
less.
You think MORE Magic playing would be better than less.
-=-What I want is to see that he is
happy (right now he is not),-=-
It might be telling to see that you don't want him to BE happy, as much as
you state that you (yourself) want to see (yourself) that he is happy. You
can say I'm being picky or that that's not what you mean, but I think a lot of
the communication is about you, and yet (as with the lines for the play, or as
with his room not being clean enough for essay writing) you're not actively
helping, but just reminding him.
-=- I want is to see that he is
has some kind of understanding of
the future beyond three days out -=-
He is eighteen years old. Back off.
You're going by the clock and calendar instead of by his actual readiness.
If he were fifteen and not ready, you wouldn't be pressuring him. He's
eighteen so the pressure is on. You have him on an assembly line with a big
timer and you're denying it.
-=-(this can include college or not,
working fulltime at Speedway or choosing to invest his time in some
interest that he wants to develop).-=-
What if he invests his time in interests in the moment?
If he should only invest his time in interests he wants to develop, you
cripple him and misjudge his fleeting interests. (Or at least you JUDGE them,
mis- or not.)
-=-Right now, it looks more like he is withdrawing from life in favor of
distraction for safety (to not have to grow up). -=-
When kids are not ready to use the toilet, are they withdrawing to not have
to grow up?
When Holly didn't read at the age of ten, was she withdrawing to not have to
grow up?
When Keith my husband didn't finish college at 22, was he withdrawing from
live to not have to grow up?
-=-I want to explore what other ways of being 18 might be cool with us and
with him.
-=-
But you are not 18.
You would probably do MUCH, much better to accept the way of being himself
that is happening this moment. If he's asleep, that is a way of being.
Everyone should sleep. I wish I had slept LOTS more last night. You shouldn't be
exploring ways to be 18. You should be living a rich life and smiling at
him and giving him good food and rent movies he likes and let him live through
whatever he's living through, because that's all people can do. Pressure
from the outside makes the inside angst feel worse.
Distraction can be a virtue, but you've condemned the distracting things
he's doing as not what YOU are cool with.
-=-In other words, I know we can come up with the extra money for
insurance, he can live with us, we can still pay for most of his life,
even his mistake of rotting fifteen teeth. Mistakes happen.=-
This fifteen teeth thing isn't about unschooling whatsoever, and you know
that.
For one thing, he wasn't unschooled. For another thing, if he has fifteen
cavities, when's the last time you took him to the dentist, or bought him a
cool new toothbrush and some new toothpaste? They have orange flavored now.
Cavities might not even BE from not brushing, though. He might have systemic
problems. Does he take vitamins? Could you spend some of your nervous
mom-energy looking up alternative theories on teeth?
If you can pay extra to keep him on insurance or buy him insurance and you
KNOW a big bill is coming up, why are you talking to me?
-=-If he continues to live the life he's living as he is, is there a time
to worry that he's needing to go beyond that world of X box, Internet
and shallow friendships? Is his self-reporting about not being able to
focus or imagine a future ever a concern we should address?-=-
Haven't you or your husband ever had restless, angsty periods of time where
you didn't know what was going to happen next and it was uncomfortable?
Think back as clearly as you can about that, and if you have no memories to think
back on, consider what would keep you from remembering your teen years.
Some people block out HUGE chunks of their lives. But if you can remember,
weren't there times you were jittery and felt like you were spinning your wheels?
Does a background noise about what you should be doing help?
-=-If he continues to live the life he's living as he is, is there a time
to worry that he's needing to go beyond that world of X box, Internet
and shallow friendships?=-
You seem to feel the time is now.
Some people don't even have shallow friendships.
Have you done much reading about codependency? Your life seems to be
sucking because you(yourself) don't like the level or quality of your son's
friendships.
And "the world of internet" is the whole big world. There are people and
ideas, art and music there.
Sandra
===============================================
(her to me)
Thanks so much. Really.
I am forwarding all you said to my husband. I think you have given me
insight into myself that I hadn't seen. So thank you. Really.
[mom's name pulled, and don't EVEN try to guess <bwg>]
------------------------------------
P.S. If you want to forward this discussion to the list, that's fine
with me. I haven't had the time to be able to keep up with all the
directions it would go. I'm about to go out of town.
A few things stand out to me from your email which I reread several
times already.
I am too busy.
I am too worried and communicate it.
I have bought into a timeline for adulthood.
The money for the teeth (of which we will pay $2000 regardless of
insurance) threw me for a total loop and worried me... I wondered what
it meant instead of just figuring out how to pay for it.
I need to back off again and fill [his] life with affirming love, and
joy in his interests, not with worry and talks.
It seems obvious when you write it, but not so obvious when I live it.
Again, thank you.
===============
In a message dated 5/23/2005 9:30:24 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [same mom]
writes:
It seems obvious when you write it, but not so obvious when I live it.
But I'm far away from it and you were dropping all those glaring verbal
clues. <g>
Maybe the best longterm thing you can do is to practice whatever tricks work
for you for being more objective about what's happening in your own life. I
don't like to be objective about the way I treat my husband sometimes, and
just realizing that I'm blocking that from my objective view tells me I'm
feeling guilty or grouchy or something, and that's valuable information too.
So if you can keep building tricks for scanning your life "from a distance"
(somehow) you can find your own glaring clues.
I might take some of the anonymous looking stuff and post it. I don't want
to post it from the beginning, because you wrote just to me and that would
seem cruel. You can go in and fess up later that it was you if that would seem
helpful to others, or just let it be there as is. I'll probably just put a
bit of the last stuff, at unschooling.com, and thanks for okaying that.
=========================================
===============
back to this list, end of quotes:
I left that last paragraph just for balance. <g> When I looked back
through, it didn't seem so harsh as a full set, and I think the situation will get
better with the family really soon (probably already has), so other than
editing out all the names (I HOPE) and pulling one story, the full set seems
better than the end only.
The only clarification I want to make is that it might've seemed I was
suggesting less Klingon or less Magic cards would be better than more. I'm not.
Neither is more better than less. He should do just as much of either as he
wants to, without the mom's happiness and hopes hingeing on it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
arcarpenter2003
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
==Haven't you or your husband ever had restless, angsty periods of
time where
> you didn't know what was going to happen next and it was
uncomfortable? ==
I am currently reading a book that I'm finding very helpful about
those restless, uncomfortable times.
_When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times_ by the
American Buddhist nun, Pema Chodron. It sounds like it's about
earth-shattering tragedy, from the title, but she's really talking
about how things come together and fall apart, over and over again.
And how we keep stepping out of the moment to find resolution for
that, when there's not actual resolution to be had.
Peace,
Amy
Elizabeth Hill
I know this has got to be hard for you. Try to let go of making
comparisons. That includes comparisons with real 18 year olds that you
know (esp. his siblings), and comparisons with the imaginary 18 year old
that you thought he might become. Set that aside and just look at
whether he is making progress from year to year. If he is unhappier and
less functional now than he was last year, that might reveal a problem.
Is he mostly happy? Can he discuss his unhappiness with a more neutral
party?
**He complains of feeling like he's never accomplished anything, he
thinks he isn't capable like students in school (not true - his natural
intelligence is high and he does surprisingly well on the ACT/SAT
tests), and he talks like he isn't ever going to be able to hold down a
job or sustain work in a classroom format. He believes he can't sustain
his attention unless he is riveted and even then, he needs lots of
breaks and changes of pace to keep from getting too bored. He says that
the Internet is like an addiction.**
The paragraph above suggest ADD, and sounds really familiar to me.
The paragraph below suggests *depression*.
**
Yesterday we attended a graduation party for our best friend's youngest
daughter. He realized that he hasn't had a party like this (had said he
didn't want one back when we discussed it) and then started saying how
he wouldn't have enough friends to come to something like this and that
he hasn't achieved anything and has nowhere to go next. Yet even as we
talk, he ends up resisting any ideas for direction or steps to take in
the meantime.**
I can relate to your 18 year old son, because I sometimes sit around and think "blah, blahbety blah, I haven't accomplished anything with my life." (I get both distracted easily and tired easily.) (And washing clothes just *doesn't* feel like an accomplishment.) Part of what I struggle with is figuring out which of my interests (or tasks) is most important. My tendency is to do just a little bit of several things, preferably simultaneously. <g>
A book that I like about learning differences, that includes having scattered mental energy (as one of the learning issues) is Mel Levine's book -- The Myth of Laziness. (Heck, just the title might make your son feel better.)
A book that I like about depression is Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy, by David Burns. (Although I'm sure there are better books specifically focused on depression.) In my experience, the majority of people who are depressed can't perceive that they are and deny it. But when people are unhappy with themselves, that's a strong sign that they may be depressed. (Being unhappy with life events is somewhat.) There are online quizzes for assessing depression, if that would help create motivation to seek treatment. My one question assessment is does someone agree with the following statement "I am worthless" or "I am shit". That pretty much ices it!
But in addition to the two diagnostic labels that I've thrown out, I agree with Sandra. It doesn't sound like all the comparisons and sense of himself as failing comparing to others are coming from him. Backing off on your judgements and desire that he grow up and get serious may really help. Even as an adult, I'm personally very resistant when my mom wants me to do something for my own good. It takes all the fun out of it. I really don't like being pushed to do things just to help someone else, especially when it conflicts with what I would prefer to do. (I would particularly prefer to make my own decisions.)
I just started reading Parent Teen Breakthrough which is a relationship-oriented book for parents of teens. Some of the ideas in there may help you get back to the relationship you want to have.
(Par for the course, I just recommended three books. Obviously I'm stuck on books.)
Playing around with something is the best way to learn it. Rote memorization has been shown to be not very effective. Drudgery may seem like the path to success but I doubt that it is the path to happiness.
Betsy
PS Stray thought --
Maybe he likes learning Klingon because so few people know it that he's
distancing himself from potential competition?
PPS I have a childhood friend who at 18 went to a very prestigious
college, then law school and then discovered he didn't LIKE being a
lawyer!!! I bet his mom didn't take back all of the bragging that she
had done when he was on the "fast track" to success. <g>
PPPS Final disclaimer: I don't have a teenager so I haven't really been
in your shoes. But my 11 year old son loves videogaming above pretty
much any academic sounding interest. I hope when my son is 18, you'll
be there to hold my hand and tell me that your son is happily engaged
with life.
comparisons. That includes comparisons with real 18 year olds that you
know (esp. his siblings), and comparisons with the imaginary 18 year old
that you thought he might become. Set that aside and just look at
whether he is making progress from year to year. If he is unhappier and
less functional now than he was last year, that might reveal a problem.
Is he mostly happy? Can he discuss his unhappiness with a more neutral
party?
**He complains of feeling like he's never accomplished anything, he
thinks he isn't capable like students in school (not true - his natural
intelligence is high and he does surprisingly well on the ACT/SAT
tests), and he talks like he isn't ever going to be able to hold down a
job or sustain work in a classroom format. He believes he can't sustain
his attention unless he is riveted and even then, he needs lots of
breaks and changes of pace to keep from getting too bored. He says that
the Internet is like an addiction.**
The paragraph above suggest ADD, and sounds really familiar to me.
The paragraph below suggests *depression*.
**
Yesterday we attended a graduation party for our best friend's youngest
daughter. He realized that he hasn't had a party like this (had said he
didn't want one back when we discussed it) and then started saying how
he wouldn't have enough friends to come to something like this and that
he hasn't achieved anything and has nowhere to go next. Yet even as we
talk, he ends up resisting any ideas for direction or steps to take in
the meantime.**
I can relate to your 18 year old son, because I sometimes sit around and think "blah, blahbety blah, I haven't accomplished anything with my life." (I get both distracted easily and tired easily.) (And washing clothes just *doesn't* feel like an accomplishment.) Part of what I struggle with is figuring out which of my interests (or tasks) is most important. My tendency is to do just a little bit of several things, preferably simultaneously. <g>
A book that I like about learning differences, that includes having scattered mental energy (as one of the learning issues) is Mel Levine's book -- The Myth of Laziness. (Heck, just the title might make your son feel better.)
A book that I like about depression is Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy, by David Burns. (Although I'm sure there are better books specifically focused on depression.) In my experience, the majority of people who are depressed can't perceive that they are and deny it. But when people are unhappy with themselves, that's a strong sign that they may be depressed. (Being unhappy with life events is somewhat.) There are online quizzes for assessing depression, if that would help create motivation to seek treatment. My one question assessment is does someone agree with the following statement "I am worthless" or "I am shit". That pretty much ices it!
But in addition to the two diagnostic labels that I've thrown out, I agree with Sandra. It doesn't sound like all the comparisons and sense of himself as failing comparing to others are coming from him. Backing off on your judgements and desire that he grow up and get serious may really help. Even as an adult, I'm personally very resistant when my mom wants me to do something for my own good. It takes all the fun out of it. I really don't like being pushed to do things just to help someone else, especially when it conflicts with what I would prefer to do. (I would particularly prefer to make my own decisions.)
I just started reading Parent Teen Breakthrough which is a relationship-oriented book for parents of teens. Some of the ideas in there may help you get back to the relationship you want to have.
(Par for the course, I just recommended three books. Obviously I'm stuck on books.)
Playing around with something is the best way to learn it. Rote memorization has been shown to be not very effective. Drudgery may seem like the path to success but I doubt that it is the path to happiness.
Betsy
PS Stray thought --
Maybe he likes learning Klingon because so few people know it that he's
distancing himself from potential competition?
PPS I have a childhood friend who at 18 went to a very prestigious
college, then law school and then discovered he didn't LIKE being a
lawyer!!! I bet his mom didn't take back all of the bragging that she
had done when he was on the "fast track" to success. <g>
PPPS Final disclaimer: I don't have a teenager so I haven't really been
in your shoes. But my 11 year old son loves videogaming above pretty
much any academic sounding interest. I hope when my son is 18, you'll
be there to hold my hand and tell me that your son is happily engaged
with life.
Elizabeth Hill
**
The money for the teeth (of which we will pay $2000 regardless of
insurance) threw me for a total loop and worried me... I wondered what
it meant instead of just figuring out how to pay for it.**
I've had screw-ups like this myself. One December, we were transitioning from Cobra to no dental insurance (I think), something where we had no coverage after 12/31 and I went in earlier in the month of December for a cleaning and discovered unexpected work that needed to be done, and the dentist had planned to be on vacation for the last two weeks of the year and couldn't fit me in. (At the time, I was kicking myself too hard to think of going to a different dentist, but now my thoughts are clearer.)
Moral: the kicking of oneself or others in the ass and the hand-wringing about bad newsdon't contribute much to solving the problem or preventing future problems.
Betsy
The money for the teeth (of which we will pay $2000 regardless of
insurance) threw me for a total loop and worried me... I wondered what
it meant instead of just figuring out how to pay for it.**
I've had screw-ups like this myself. One December, we were transitioning from Cobra to no dental insurance (I think), something where we had no coverage after 12/31 and I went in earlier in the month of December for a cleaning and discovered unexpected work that needed to be done, and the dentist had planned to be on vacation for the last two weeks of the year and couldn't fit me in. (At the time, I was kicking myself too hard to think of going to a different dentist, but now my thoughts are clearer.)
Moral: the kicking of oneself or others in the ass and the hand-wringing about bad newsdon't contribute much to solving the problem or preventing future problems.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/2005 1:43:27 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
arcarpenter@... writes:
-=-_When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times_ by the
American Buddhist nun, Pema Chodron. It sounds like it's about
earth-shattering tragedy, from the title, but she's really talking
about how things come together and fall apart, over and over again.
And how we keep stepping out of the moment to find resolution for
that, when there's not actual resolution to be had.-=-
======
Sometimes I have a feeling like something going to happen, and like people
are thinking about me behind my back.<g> It will last a week or so and then
something all new and different will happen. It's happened half a dozen times
over the past fifteen years or so. It's a little like cocooning up and then
butterflying out. But during the still time I get an almost creepy, scary
feeling, like I'll never do anything right or interesting or useful again,
EVER, in my Whole LIFE! And then it flutters on out of me.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
arcarpenter@... writes:
-=-_When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times_ by the
American Buddhist nun, Pema Chodron. It sounds like it's about
earth-shattering tragedy, from the title, but she's really talking
about how things come together and fall apart, over and over again.
And how we keep stepping out of the moment to find resolution for
that, when there's not actual resolution to be had.-=-
======
Sometimes I have a feeling like something going to happen, and like people
are thinking about me behind my back.<g> It will last a week or so and then
something all new and different will happen. It's happened half a dozen times
over the past fifteen years or so. It's a little like cocooning up and then
butterflying out. But during the still time I get an almost creepy, scary
feeling, like I'll never do anything right or interesting or useful again,
EVER, in my Whole LIFE! And then it flutters on out of me.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I have a son who will be 21 at the end of August. He graduated from
traditional high school. He tried different parts of three semesters of community
college, only finishing one of them.
He's been "in the basement" for a year. Trying to figure things out, mostly
within himself.
He took meds for depression and I saw a dramatic improvement. He felt
better so he stopped taking them. Another downward spiral.
All his friends are in college away from home. All his friends are doing
this or that. All his friends... I remind him often that I love him, that I
will help him if he needs/wants it.
I also ran interference with the dad who would ask daily about John and if
he planned to get a job or go to school or what...
I said to him (and others that asked), with dead seriousness; "you all KNOW
John is training to be a cage fighter". That never failed to lighten the
mood and change the subject.
He is working a job now doing landscaping for a local golf course. He's
seeming to like it and feel better about himself. I think he might have needed
a little push/pull/lift to get out more but he resisted all manner of
anything I offered.
I felt he needed that time to himself and was there if he needed me. It's a
hard time for boys/men/nearly men. I'd be depressed too if I thought the
world expected me to run out and get a job and work every single day for the
rest of my life and do something important with myself.
Even though we can reassure our children we don't expect the same things,
sometimes they put inner expectations on themselves based on their friends.
Often their friends have really pushy parents that have lots of expectations.
I just wanted to let you know that even kids who graduate from a traditional
high school sometimes go through the same thing as your son.
I can't say how it all ends up yet, the story is still being written, by
John, as he goes.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
traditional high school. He tried different parts of three semesters of community
college, only finishing one of them.
He's been "in the basement" for a year. Trying to figure things out, mostly
within himself.
He took meds for depression and I saw a dramatic improvement. He felt
better so he stopped taking them. Another downward spiral.
All his friends are in college away from home. All his friends are doing
this or that. All his friends... I remind him often that I love him, that I
will help him if he needs/wants it.
I also ran interference with the dad who would ask daily about John and if
he planned to get a job or go to school or what...
I said to him (and others that asked), with dead seriousness; "you all KNOW
John is training to be a cage fighter". That never failed to lighten the
mood and change the subject.
He is working a job now doing landscaping for a local golf course. He's
seeming to like it and feel better about himself. I think he might have needed
a little push/pull/lift to get out more but he resisted all manner of
anything I offered.
I felt he needed that time to himself and was there if he needed me. It's a
hard time for boys/men/nearly men. I'd be depressed too if I thought the
world expected me to run out and get a job and work every single day for the
rest of my life and do something important with myself.
Even though we can reassure our children we don't expect the same things,
sometimes they put inner expectations on themselves based on their friends.
Often their friends have really pushy parents that have lots of expectations.
I just wanted to let you know that even kids who graduate from a traditional
high school sometimes go through the same thing as your son.
I can't say how it all ends up yet, the story is still being written, by
John, as he goes.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]