book worship, and if not then what?
[email protected]
This came in the e-mail from someone on our local freecycle list:
-=-I'm looking to add to my book collection! afterall, the only thing
that changes you are the people you hang out with and the books you
read!!-=-
I wrote back:
-=-Even though I disagree with your quote, I might be willing to give you
some books!<g>
-=- What are your interests?
-=- Sandra-=-
It struck me as evidence of book worship, something I'm tracking down in my
spare time. I don't think all cultures worship books to the extent English
speakers do, and I'm curious about what the deal is. I'm collecting clues.
Since before I can remember, I loved books, but I don't know whether I loved
them because others praised me for loving them and I wanted positive regard,
or whether the books themselves created the best part of my life.
Sometimes when I was older I KNOW the books were an escape from my life and
surroundings and school. (I wrote about that realization in Books and
Saxophones (_http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax_ (http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax) )
But this assertion that the only things that change someone are people and
books... that doesn't seem remotely true to me. Is it a quote some of you
know? Is it thought to be common knowledge by anyone?
Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-I'm looking to add to my book collection! afterall, the only thing
that changes you are the people you hang out with and the books you
read!!-=-
I wrote back:
-=-Even though I disagree with your quote, I might be willing to give you
some books!<g>
-=- What are your interests?
-=- Sandra-=-
It struck me as evidence of book worship, something I'm tracking down in my
spare time. I don't think all cultures worship books to the extent English
speakers do, and I'm curious about what the deal is. I'm collecting clues.
Since before I can remember, I loved books, but I don't know whether I loved
them because others praised me for loving them and I wanted positive regard,
or whether the books themselves created the best part of my life.
Sometimes when I was older I KNOW the books were an escape from my life and
surroundings and school. (I wrote about that realization in Books and
Saxophones (_http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax_ (http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax) )
But this assertion that the only things that change someone are people and
books... that doesn't seem remotely true to me. Is it a quote some of you
know? Is it thought to be common knowledge by anyone?
Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
people are a big source of changes, large and small, on other people
like a bag of stones being shaken - what 'shapes' you are the other
stones you come in contact with. How the ideas, attitudes, information
get from one person to another can vary - books are one way, but so is
conversation, speech (like hearing a moving or aggravating speaker),
movies, plays, music (with or without lyrics), paintings, photographs,
dance, touch, and more recently electronic media - TV, video, video
games, computers (here we are touching each other on the Internet and
email). Different cultures do use different combinations but they are
all a means to touching and connecting, one to another. And in that
connecting, we are shaped.
--Deb
> Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?Hmm I'm seeing a connection there between books and people. I think
>
> Sandra
>
people are a big source of changes, large and small, on other people
like a bag of stones being shaken - what 'shapes' you are the other
stones you come in contact with. How the ideas, attitudes, information
get from one person to another can vary - books are one way, but so is
conversation, speech (like hearing a moving or aggravating speaker),
movies, plays, music (with or without lyrics), paintings, photographs,
dance, touch, and more recently electronic media - TV, video, video
games, computers (here we are touching each other on the Internet and
email). Different cultures do use different combinations but they are
all a means to touching and connecting, one to another. And in that
connecting, we are shaped.
--Deb
sheila
But this assertion that the only things that change someone are people and
books... that doesn't seem remotely true to me. Is it a quote some of you
know? Is it thought to be common knowledge by anyone?
Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?
Sandra
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I changed a LOT in the last few years. I think my changes came from a combination of:
-talking things through with my husband
-being online and reading stuff people were saying about different philosophies and ideas
-coming to this list specifically, and having people like you (Sandra) and others being able to take my arguing (at first) and my insecure questioning later and come back at me with REALLY good blunt, to the point, mindful, honest, helpful, insightful answers.
-talking things through with my homeopath
-I guess I should give myself a bit of credit for being willing to at least think about things that might cause me to change. <g>
My husband came first...he helped me be open minded enough to even consider the stuff I was reading here. Then I came here and showed him stuff and helped him be open minded about different stuff. Then my homeopath helped me even further after that...without the progress I made here and research about alternative healthcare that I did online the homeopath wouldn't have gotten anywhere with me
So I guess the answer for me is people. But not just the hanging out with friends locally kind of people interaction. The "getting on the internet and deeply discussing issues with people you never would have met without the internet" kind of talking to people.
Books were fun too, but mostly they were affirmations of what I already had acknowledged and understood from talking to people.
Sheila
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
books... that doesn't seem remotely true to me. Is it a quote some of you
know? Is it thought to be common knowledge by anyone?
Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?
Sandra
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I changed a LOT in the last few years. I think my changes came from a combination of:
-talking things through with my husband
-being online and reading stuff people were saying about different philosophies and ideas
-coming to this list specifically, and having people like you (Sandra) and others being able to take my arguing (at first) and my insecure questioning later and come back at me with REALLY good blunt, to the point, mindful, honest, helpful, insightful answers.
-talking things through with my homeopath
-I guess I should give myself a bit of credit for being willing to at least think about things that might cause me to change. <g>
My husband came first...he helped me be open minded enough to even consider the stuff I was reading here. Then I came here and showed him stuff and helped him be open minded about different stuff. Then my homeopath helped me even further after that...without the progress I made here and research about alternative healthcare that I did online the homeopath wouldn't have gotten anywhere with me
So I guess the answer for me is people. But not just the hanging out with friends locally kind of people interaction. The "getting on the internet and deeply discussing issues with people you never would have met without the internet" kind of talking to people.
Books were fun too, but mostly they were affirmations of what I already had acknowledged and understood from talking to people.
Sheila
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**-=-I'm looking to add to my book collection! afterall, the only thing
that changes you are the people you hang out with and the books you
read!!-=-**
Frank Smith repeats the old adage that "you learn from the company you
keep" (in The Book of Learning and Forgetting) and extends it to include
books as "company", I think.
But certainly people learn from experience. It seems strange that she
left that out of her list of changing things.
Betsy
that changes you are the people you hang out with and the books you
read!!-=-**
Frank Smith repeats the old adage that "you learn from the company you
keep" (in The Book of Learning and Forgetting) and extends it to include
books as "company", I think.
But certainly people learn from experience. It seems strange that she
left that out of her list of changing things.
Betsy
Jordan
Hey Sandra�
You probably know this, but one of the essays in �Deschooling Our Lives�
touches on book worship. It�s �The Intimate and The Ultimate� by Vinoba
Bhave (sure sounds like an Austin Powers character��Oh Behave!�). The
author is from India. Here�s a quote:
�If a man�s house is full of medicine bottles, we infer that the man is
probably ill. But if his house is full of books, we conclude that he is
intelligent. Surely that is not right? The first rule of health is to
take medicine only when it is absolutely necessary. By the same token, the
first rule of intelligence ought to be to avoid, so far as possible, burying
one�s eyes in books. WE consider medicine bottles to be a sign of a sick
body; we out to consider books, whether secular or religious, as the sign of
a sick mind!�
I always thought that a clean house was a sign of a sick mind�if it�s books,
I�m in BAD trouble! :-)
The article has other good stuff too� more than I can comment on now,
though. I love books, and live pretty close to the edge of worshiping them,
but I sure don�t believe that they are one of the two �things� that have
changed me. Yeah, I guess both books and people have shaped me as a person
(as have pop tarts and cheeseburgers :-)) but so have other things. Here
are some:
***As a college student, I spent 6 months in Germany. I backpacked around
Europe, spent Christmas in Paris, and did the usual student stuff. When I
got back to the states, I felt like I could do anything. I had not felt
that way before. I did read books and interact with people in Europe, but
those are not what made me feel invincible.
***Before my oldest child was born, I lost two babies. My first was
stillborn at 39 weeks. I miscarried my second 5 months later at 9 weeks.
That changed me. Yes, these babies were people, but I didn�t �hang out�
with them in the sense that the freecycle poster meant. The experience
changed me.
***Living in Japan as a military family member has changed me. Not because
I hang out with military or non-military people, but since we don�t live on
the base, my day-to-day life is lived in Japanese society. Since I speak
only minimal Japanese and don�t read it at all, I�m living as a functional
illiterate here. I�ve definitely changed.
Okay�my brain is stormed out. Thanks for the mental exercise!
Tami
(who struggles with trying to learn the 2 phonetic alphabets in Japanese and
so far can recognize the words for �beer� and �baseball� Go figure! :-)).
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of
SandraDodd@...
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 5:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] book worship, and if not then what?
This came in the e-mail from someone on our local freecycle list:
-=-I'm looking to add to my book collection! afterall, the only thing
that changes you are the people you hang out with and the books you
read!!-=-
I wrote back:
-=-Even though I disagree with your quote, I might be willing to give you
some books!<g>
-=- What are your interests?
-=- Sandra-=-
It struck me as evidence of book worship, something I'm tracking down in my
spare time. I don't think all cultures worship books to the extent English
speakers do, and I'm curious about what the deal is. I'm collecting clues.
Since before I can remember, I loved books, but I don't know whether I
loved
them because others praised me for loving them and I wanted positive
regard,
or whether the books themselves created the best part of my life.
Sometimes when I was older I KNOW the books were an escape from my life and
surroundings and school. (I wrote about that realization in Books and
Saxophones (_ http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax_ (
http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax) )
But this assertion that the only things that change someone are people and
books... that doesn't seem remotely true to me. Is it a quote some of you
know? Is it thought to be common knowledge by anyone?
Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscrib
e>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You probably know this, but one of the essays in �Deschooling Our Lives�
touches on book worship. It�s �The Intimate and The Ultimate� by Vinoba
Bhave (sure sounds like an Austin Powers character��Oh Behave!�). The
author is from India. Here�s a quote:
�If a man�s house is full of medicine bottles, we infer that the man is
probably ill. But if his house is full of books, we conclude that he is
intelligent. Surely that is not right? The first rule of health is to
take medicine only when it is absolutely necessary. By the same token, the
first rule of intelligence ought to be to avoid, so far as possible, burying
one�s eyes in books. WE consider medicine bottles to be a sign of a sick
body; we out to consider books, whether secular or religious, as the sign of
a sick mind!�
I always thought that a clean house was a sign of a sick mind�if it�s books,
I�m in BAD trouble! :-)
The article has other good stuff too� more than I can comment on now,
though. I love books, and live pretty close to the edge of worshiping them,
but I sure don�t believe that they are one of the two �things� that have
changed me. Yeah, I guess both books and people have shaped me as a person
(as have pop tarts and cheeseburgers :-)) but so have other things. Here
are some:
***As a college student, I spent 6 months in Germany. I backpacked around
Europe, spent Christmas in Paris, and did the usual student stuff. When I
got back to the states, I felt like I could do anything. I had not felt
that way before. I did read books and interact with people in Europe, but
those are not what made me feel invincible.
***Before my oldest child was born, I lost two babies. My first was
stillborn at 39 weeks. I miscarried my second 5 months later at 9 weeks.
That changed me. Yes, these babies were people, but I didn�t �hang out�
with them in the sense that the freecycle poster meant. The experience
changed me.
***Living in Japan as a military family member has changed me. Not because
I hang out with military or non-military people, but since we don�t live on
the base, my day-to-day life is lived in Japanese society. Since I speak
only minimal Japanese and don�t read it at all, I�m living as a functional
illiterate here. I�ve definitely changed.
Okay�my brain is stormed out. Thanks for the mental exercise!
Tami
(who struggles with trying to learn the 2 phonetic alphabets in Japanese and
so far can recognize the words for �beer� and �baseball� Go figure! :-)).
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of
SandraDodd@...
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 5:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] book worship, and if not then what?
This came in the e-mail from someone on our local freecycle list:
-=-I'm looking to add to my book collection! afterall, the only thing
that changes you are the people you hang out with and the books you
read!!-=-
I wrote back:
-=-Even though I disagree with your quote, I might be willing to give you
some books!<g>
-=- What are your interests?
-=- Sandra-=-
It struck me as evidence of book worship, something I'm tracking down in my
spare time. I don't think all cultures worship books to the extent English
speakers do, and I'm curious about what the deal is. I'm collecting clues.
Since before I can remember, I loved books, but I don't know whether I
loved
them because others praised me for loving them and I wanted positive
regard,
or whether the books themselves created the best part of my life.
Sometimes when I was older I KNOW the books were an escape from my life and
surroundings and school. (I wrote about that realization in Books and
Saxophones (_ http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax_ (
http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax) )
But this assertion that the only things that change someone are people and
books... that doesn't seem remotely true to me. Is it a quote some of you
know? Is it thought to be common knowledge by anyone?
Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscrib
e>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brandie
>>Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?Well, two that immediately come to my mind is school and money........
Brandie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
Just yesterday I grabbed a DVD from the library of old Twilight Zone episodes. We watched one from 1959, in which the main character is criticized by his boss and by his wife because he wants to read all the time - books, newspapers, even cereal boxes (or something like that). He sneaks down into the bank vault during his lunch break, to read in peace. The screen shows him reading a newspaper with a headline about A bombs.
Delete this email now if you don't want to know the ending.
The A bomb is dropped, killing everybody. He finds a grocery store with plenty of canned food, and then, THE LIBRARY! There are books laying everywhere. He's in Heaven. Until his very thick eyeglasses fall off and smash to pieces.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Delete this email now if you don't want to know the ending.
The A bomb is dropped, killing everybody. He finds a grocery store with plenty of canned food, and then, THE LIBRARY! There are books laying everywhere. He's in Heaven. Until his very thick eyeglasses fall off and smash to pieces.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brandie
So funny you mentioned this tonight -- Noelle (dd 14) has recently discovered the newer Twilight Zones and has been watching them. We got into a discussion about the old ones I just told her all about this very episode since it is my favorite. She really wants to see it now...need to figure out when it is on or get it on dvd or something (is older Twilight Zones on dvd yet?).
Brandie
Brandie
----- Original Message -----
From: nellebelle
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] book worship, and if not then what?
Just yesterday I grabbed a DVD from the library of old Twilight Zone episodes. We watched one from 1959, in which the main character is criticized by his boss and by his wife because he wants to read all the time - books, newspapers, even cereal boxes (or something like that). He sneaks down into the bank vault during his lunch break, to read in peace. The screen shows him reading a newspaper with a headline about A bombs.
Delete this email now if you don't want to know the ending.
The A bomb is dropped, killing everybody. He finds a grocery store with plenty of canned food, and then, THE LIBRARY! There are books laying everywhere. He's in Heaven. Until his very thick eyeglasses fall off and smash to pieces.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Glenda Purscell
>>Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?Sandra
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of things within the broader category of nature change me. Other living things change me. My cat, Sasha, certainly does -- through my own home monitoring, I have discovered that having her curl up in my lap can lower my systolic blood pressure by 20 points within just 3 minutes (and I don't even have high blood pressure). Obviously an intense experience with various forces of nature, like tornadoes, floods and hurricanes, can change people dramatically. Not only by the change it creates when it damages their physical surroundings, but it quite often changes them emotionally as well. Even experiencing the simple beauty of a sunset changes me when I am open to it.
We're looking forward to a Mother's Day weekend of severe weather potential here in Oklahoma -- so I'm hoping I don't have to face too much change in the next few days!
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shields
I agree that relationships with animals can change a person. Think about
those programs for inmates who train dogs for adoption or even (I think I
heard this) for helping humans like seeing eye dogs. I can also say that my
life changed when I decided to study animal behavior and spent a lot of time
in nature.
Kristin
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] Lots of things within the
broader category of nature change me. Other living things change me. My
cat, Sasha, certainly does -- through my own home monitoring, I have
discovered that having her curl up in my lap can lower my systolic blood
pressure by 20 points within just 3 minutes (and I don't even have high
blood pressure). Obviously an intense experience with various forces of
nature, like tornadoes, floods and hurricanes, can change people
dramatically. Not only by the change it creates when it damages their
physical surroundings, but it quite often changes them emotionally as well.
Even experiencing the simple beauty of a sunset changes me when I am open to
it.
We're looking forward to a Mother's Day weekend of severe weather potential
here in Oklahoma -- so I'm hoping I don't have to face too much change in
the next few days!
Glenda
those programs for inmates who train dogs for adoption or even (I think I
heard this) for helping humans like seeing eye dogs. I can also say that my
life changed when I decided to study animal behavior and spent a lot of time
in nature.
Kristin
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] Lots of things within the
broader category of nature change me. Other living things change me. My
cat, Sasha, certainly does -- through my own home monitoring, I have
discovered that having her curl up in my lap can lower my systolic blood
pressure by 20 points within just 3 minutes (and I don't even have high
blood pressure). Obviously an intense experience with various forces of
nature, like tornadoes, floods and hurricanes, can change people
dramatically. Not only by the change it creates when it damages their
physical surroundings, but it quite often changes them emotionally as well.
Even experiencing the simple beauty of a sunset changes me when I am open to
it.
We're looking forward to a Mother's Day weekend of severe weather potential
here in Oklahoma -- so I'm hoping I don't have to face too much change in
the next few days!
Glenda
Shields
This is a good one that I hadn't thought of. I was in a doctoral program
when I found out I had thyroid cancer. Soon after the surgery and recovery
I dropped out of the program, moved to a new city and my dh and I decided it
was time to start our family. I wouldn't have these two wonderful kids
without that decision to start a family then. It may have been 5-10 years
before we would decide to have kids if I had gotten that PhD.
Kristin
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
First thing that came to mine was illness. I think any life-
threatening illness would change a person. My most recent experience
was my kids contracting Pertussis last year. Ds developed a nasty
habit cough, undiagnosed at the time, which required nearly total bed
rest until we figured out what it was and beat it. Weeks of no
diagnosis, isolation and maybe too much introspection triggered
exteme anxieties about lots of schoolish things we'd been having him
do. After Pertussis we made the ultimate turn around into what some
would call radical unschooling! What a "blessing" as some, but not
usually me, would say, Pertussis was in our lives!
Chris
(Is there a less spiritual way of getting across the idea that some
event, seemingly out of one's control, caused a positive change?)
when I found out I had thyroid cancer. Soon after the surgery and recovery
I dropped out of the program, moved to a new city and my dh and I decided it
was time to start our family. I wouldn't have these two wonderful kids
without that decision to start a family then. It may have been 5-10 years
before we would decide to have kids if I had gotten that PhD.
Kristin
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
First thing that came to mine was illness. I think any life-
threatening illness would change a person. My most recent experience
was my kids contracting Pertussis last year. Ds developed a nasty
habit cough, undiagnosed at the time, which required nearly total bed
rest until we figured out what it was and beat it. Weeks of no
diagnosis, isolation and maybe too much introspection triggered
exteme anxieties about lots of schoolish things we'd been having him
do. After Pertussis we made the ultimate turn around into what some
would call radical unschooling! What a "blessing" as some, but not
usually me, would say, Pertussis was in our lives!
Chris
(Is there a less spiritual way of getting across the idea that some
event, seemingly out of one's control, caused a positive change?)
[email protected]
1. Something that changed me big time was becoming a foster parent. It
taught me not to look at life through the eyes of a typical homeschool mom
anymore. Has taught me to appreciate my parents, and to not take our imperfect,
quirky family for granted. Has taught me to be really happy with small
changes and steps forward.
2. Becoming real friends with our parish nun, an older lady with Parkinsons
disease with a wonderful outlook and great sense of humor. She has really
taught me contentment in my daily life and simple things.
3. Although I have been slacking lately, Yoga and deep breathing have
changed me too.
4. Prayer, and meditation.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
taught me not to look at life through the eyes of a typical homeschool mom
anymore. Has taught me to appreciate my parents, and to not take our imperfect,
quirky family for granted. Has taught me to be really happy with small
changes and steps forward.
2. Becoming real friends with our parish nun, an older lady with Parkinsons
disease with a wonderful outlook and great sense of humor. She has really
taught me contentment in my daily life and simple things.
3. Although I have been slacking lately, Yoga and deep breathing have
changed me too.
4. Prayer, and meditation.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
>>>>>>>> (is older Twilight Zones on DVD yet?).>>>>>>>>Yes, that is how I saw it! My public library has the series. "Time Enough at Last" is #1 on Vol. 2. From Image Entertainment. ""A bookworm yearns for more time to read, then a nuclear holocaust leaves him alone in the world with lots of time, plenty to read, and one ironic twist!""
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Shields <shields@...>
I agree that relationships with animals can change a person. Think
about
those programs for inmates who train dogs for adoption or even (I think
I
heard this) for helping humans like seeing eye dogs.
-=-=-=-=-
You heard right. SouthEastern Guide Dogs, Inc has a program in SC
called IMPACT in which inmates receive puppies to raise as guide dogs.
We have one of the SEGDI pupppies now. Ryan. In fact, I'm off today to
exchange him for a little black lab bitch named Rotey. Ryan and Rotey
will exchange families for three weeks for puppy camp. Leaving Ryan
today will be like cutting off my left arm!
But the IMPACT program has been highly successful---for SEGDI, the
pups, and the inmates. You can see the program featured on Animal
Planet occasionally.
Now back to your regularly scheduled Book Worship Thread....
~Kelly
From: Shields <shields@...>
I agree that relationships with animals can change a person. Think
about
those programs for inmates who train dogs for adoption or even (I think
I
heard this) for helping humans like seeing eye dogs.
-=-=-=-=-
You heard right. SouthEastern Guide Dogs, Inc has a program in SC
called IMPACT in which inmates receive puppies to raise as guide dogs.
We have one of the SEGDI pupppies now. Ryan. In fact, I'm off today to
exchange him for a little black lab bitch named Rotey. Ryan and Rotey
will exchange families for three weeks for puppy camp. Leaving Ryan
today will be like cutting off my left arm!
But the IMPACT program has been highly successful---for SEGDI, the
pups, and the inmates. You can see the program featured on Animal
Planet occasionally.
Now back to your regularly scheduled Book Worship Thread....
~Kelly
fairy_of_moods
--- In [email protected], "soggyboysmom"
<debra.rossing@m...> wrote:
about people and books changing someone. Books are one way we
connect with people. A person could be changed just as much by a
movie, a musical piece, etc.(see list above <g>) To say that people
are changed by books is really just saying that they are changed by
people because books are just an expression of ideas. The person
stating that 'only people and books change you' might argue that it
is the actual book format that helps create change. But it seems to
me that it was a not very well thought out statement.
Other posts have given examples of change not directly connected to
other people. I think these would fit into the broad category
of 'experience'. Here are a couple of my own examples:
With my first pregnancy I began to pay attention to my body in a way
I never had before. I started making all kinds of connections
between my actions and the way my body responded. I gained a new
awareness that very much changed me.
When I stood on the beach at the ocean for the first time, I felt
changed. All the pictures, paintings, and movies had not prepared
me for actually BEING there.
Caprice
<debra.rossing@m...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a...wrote:
> > Can we brainstorm a list of other things that change people?think
> >
> > Sandra
> >
> Hmm I'm seeing a connection there between books and people. I
> people are a big source of changes, large and small, on otherpeople
> like a bag of stones being shaken - what 'shapes' you are theother
> stones you come in contact with. How the ideas, attitudes,information
> get from one person to another can vary - books are one way, butso is
> conversation, speech (like hearing a moving or aggravatingspeaker),
> movies, plays, music (with or without lyrics), paintings,photographs,
> dance, touch, and more recently electronic media - TV, video,video
> games, computers (here we are touching each other on the Internetand
> email). Different cultures do use different combinations but theyare
> all a means to touching and connecting, one to another. And inthat
> connecting, we are shaped.This is the kind of thing I was thinking of when I read the quote
>
> --Deb
about people and books changing someone. Books are one way we
connect with people. A person could be changed just as much by a
movie, a musical piece, etc.(see list above <g>) To say that people
are changed by books is really just saying that they are changed by
people because books are just an expression of ideas. The person
stating that 'only people and books change you' might argue that it
is the actual book format that helps create change. But it seems to
me that it was a not very well thought out statement.
Other posts have given examples of change not directly connected to
other people. I think these would fit into the broad category
of 'experience'. Here are a couple of my own examples:
With my first pregnancy I began to pay attention to my body in a way
I never had before. I started making all kinds of connections
between my actions and the way my body responded. I gained a new
awareness that very much changed me.
When I stood on the beach at the ocean for the first time, I felt
changed. All the pictures, paintings, and movies had not prepared
me for actually BEING there.
Caprice
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/7/2005 9:13:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
fairy_of_moods@... writes:
-=-When I stood on the beach at the ocean for the first time, I felt
changed. All the pictures, paintings, and movies had not prepared
me for actually BEING there.-=-
I had that experience too. I was seventeen, and I was on a small beach in
southern California just after sunset. I was disappointed to get there too
late to see well, but the probably helped with the sensations I did have.
There was a smell and a feel to the ground that no description or movie could've
hinted at. The "live" water I had been in before was rivers (ICY, rocky
mountain streams, and the Rio Grande which is icy and rocky where I grew up) and
lakes (kind of a alive, but not in such a healthy way).
A person took me there, but I didn't get my first experience of the ocean
from that person.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fairy_of_moods@... writes:
-=-When I stood on the beach at the ocean for the first time, I felt
changed. All the pictures, paintings, and movies had not prepared
me for actually BEING there.-=-
I had that experience too. I was seventeen, and I was on a small beach in
southern California just after sunset. I was disappointed to get there too
late to see well, but the probably helped with the sensations I did have.
There was a smell and a feel to the ground that no description or movie could've
hinted at. The "live" water I had been in before was rivers (ICY, rocky
mountain streams, and the Rio Grande which is icy and rocky where I grew up) and
lakes (kind of a alive, but not in such a healthy way).
A person took me there, but I didn't get my first experience of the ocean
from that person.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
women, I don't know. I remember vividly being on a beach in southern
France as the sun set on my birthday and it was almost 17 yrs ago -
the birds, the wet sand smell, a man riding his horse along the
beach...mmm I remember experiencing lots of things, the Alps, the
Mississippi River, lots of stuff but some of the deepest are large,
living waters (grew up in NJ so there's lots of ocean scents,
sounds, sensations tucked away).
--Deb
>felt
> In a message dated 5/7/2005 9:13:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> fairy_of_moods@y... writes:
>
> -=-When I stood on the beach at the ocean for the first time, I
> changed. All the pictures, paintings, and movies had notprepared
> me for actually BEING there.-=-small beach in
>
>
> I had that experience too. I was seventeen, and I was on a
> southern California just after sunset. I was disappointed to getthere too
> late to see well, but the probably helped with the sensations Idid have.
> There was a smell and a feel to the ground that no description ormovie could've
> hinted at. The "live" water I had been in before was rivers(ICY, rocky
> mountain streams, and the Rio Grande which is icy and rocky whereI grew up) and
> lakes (kind of a alive, but not in such a healthy way).the ocean
>
> A person took me there, but I didn't get my first experience of
> from that person.Water seems to have a 'something' to it for many - maybe especially
>
> Sandra
>
>
women, I don't know. I remember vividly being on a beach in southern
France as the sun set on my birthday and it was almost 17 yrs ago -
the birds, the wet sand smell, a man riding his horse along the
beach...mmm I remember experiencing lots of things, the Alps, the
Mississippi River, lots of stuff but some of the deepest are large,
living waters (grew up in NJ so there's lots of ocean scents,
sounds, sensations tucked away).
--Deb
Danielle Conger
SandraDodd@... wrote:
and simple.
Other than that, I'm going to suggest a book. ;) Seriously, an
interesting and compelling argument (as I see it) for the importance of
print can be found in Partha Chatterjee's book _Imagined Communities_.
In it, he tracks the rise of the vernacular (English taking over in
print from Greek and Latin) as it coincides with the rise of
nationalism--the American and French Revolutions and all the smaller
national revolutions in Europe and South America that took them as a
model. His argument is that as the vernacular became available in print
(newspapers grew astoundingly in this period) and literacy rates rose
because people could read stuff in their own language, a broader
community that spanned geographical space and time became possible. A
colonist in America, the Virgin Islands or South America could read the
same newspaper as the citizen in the mother county, creating an imagined
sense of simultaneous community and connection with those far away in
space and time (could take weeks for the newspapers to arrive to the
colonies). His argument is that this print culture made nationalism as
we know it possible--prior to that religion (think crusades) was the
organizing principle. He traces this phenomenon through several
countries, looking at the importance of coffee houses during the
Revolutionary period, the importance of papers and pamphlets, the rise
of secret societies and the papers associated with them, that kind of
thing.
It's an interesting argument for the importance of print culture in
English even though "the novel" was denigrated in its early development,
though I have my own arguments as to the purpose novels served during
the formation of modern nationalism.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (7), Julia (6), Sam (4.5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
>It struck me as evidence of book worship, something I'm tracking down in myThe most profound thing that changes me is the passage of time. Plain
>spare time. I don't think all cultures worship books to the extent English
>speakers do, and I'm curious about what the deal is. I'm collecting clues.
>
and simple.
Other than that, I'm going to suggest a book. ;) Seriously, an
interesting and compelling argument (as I see it) for the importance of
print can be found in Partha Chatterjee's book _Imagined Communities_.
In it, he tracks the rise of the vernacular (English taking over in
print from Greek and Latin) as it coincides with the rise of
nationalism--the American and French Revolutions and all the smaller
national revolutions in Europe and South America that took them as a
model. His argument is that as the vernacular became available in print
(newspapers grew astoundingly in this period) and literacy rates rose
because people could read stuff in their own language, a broader
community that spanned geographical space and time became possible. A
colonist in America, the Virgin Islands or South America could read the
same newspaper as the citizen in the mother county, creating an imagined
sense of simultaneous community and connection with those far away in
space and time (could take weeks for the newspapers to arrive to the
colonies). His argument is that this print culture made nationalism as
we know it possible--prior to that religion (think crusades) was the
organizing principle. He traces this phenomenon through several
countries, looking at the importance of coffee houses during the
Revolutionary period, the importance of papers and pamphlets, the rise
of secret societies and the papers associated with them, that kind of
thing.
It's an interesting argument for the importance of print culture in
English even though "the novel" was denigrated in its early development,
though I have my own arguments as to the purpose novels served during
the formation of modern nationalism.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (7), Julia (6), Sam (4.5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
Nisha
--- In [email protected], Sandrewmama
<sandrewmama@m...> wrote:
First thing that came to mine was illness. I think any life-
changed how I looked at just about everything. I decided not to deal
with near as much of other people's crap, and if they were a
negative influence on my life, I put distance between us, both
literally and figuratively.
Other things I can think of that changed me...
sometimes a move can really change you.
having kids is another thing that can(and usually does) change how
you look at everything.
Getting married.
Getting divorced.
Having someone close to you die.
Becoming a survivor of something. (rape, abuse, etc)
Leaving home and creating your own place in the world for the first
time.
That's all I can think of for now....
nisha
<sandrewmama@m...> wrote:
First thing that came to mine was illness. I think any life-
> threatening illness would change a person.I agree with that. I know when I had my cervical cancer scare, it
changed how I looked at just about everything. I decided not to deal
with near as much of other people's crap, and if they were a
negative influence on my life, I put distance between us, both
literally and figuratively.
Other things I can think of that changed me...
sometimes a move can really change you.
having kids is another thing that can(and usually does) change how
you look at everything.
Getting married.
Getting divorced.
Having someone close to you die.
Becoming a survivor of something. (rape, abuse, etc)
Leaving home and creating your own place in the world for the first
time.
That's all I can think of for now....
nisha
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/7/2005 10:15:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
nishamartin@... writes:
--- In [email protected], Sandrewmama
<sandrewmama@m...> wrote:
First thing that came to mine was illness. I think any life-
Definitely illness. For me, a brain tumor at age 35 was life changing. I
had been married 10 years, career oriented with no plans for children. The
realization that I would live, led to a re-evaluation of my life choices and at
36 Brenna was born. At 40, I had Logan. Definitely changed me and all for
the better.
And divorce. That hit me like a train wreck. Many, many changes in my
previous ability to trust without question. It helped me find strength that I
never knew I had and led me to a relationship that was healthy and loving.
Having children. That was the biggest life changer for me. Being mom to
these two beautiful children. Led me to joy....led me to unschooling. Led me
to this morning when I woke up to find tulips from Brenna and a card she
made...It's says simply, To Mom--I love you so much today and everyday. Happy
Mother's Day.
Gail
Feeling a bit "mushy" this morning and thankful for all the life changing
events that have brought me to today.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nishamartin@... writes:
--- In [email protected], Sandrewmama
<sandrewmama@m...> wrote:
First thing that came to mine was illness. I think any life-
> threatening illness would change a person.______
Definitely illness. For me, a brain tumor at age 35 was life changing. I
had been married 10 years, career oriented with no plans for children. The
realization that I would live, led to a re-evaluation of my life choices and at
36 Brenna was born. At 40, I had Logan. Definitely changed me and all for
the better.
And divorce. That hit me like a train wreck. Many, many changes in my
previous ability to trust without question. It helped me find strength that I
never knew I had and led me to a relationship that was healthy and loving.
Having children. That was the biggest life changer for me. Being mom to
these two beautiful children. Led me to joy....led me to unschooling. Led me
to this morning when I woke up to find tulips from Brenna and a card she
made...It's says simply, To Mom--I love you so much today and everyday. Happy
Mother's Day.
Gail
Feeling a bit "mushy" this morning and thankful for all the life changing
events that have brought me to today.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I had ideas, but wanted to see what others thought too. I'm collecting this
stuff, and have been thinking about it all the time I'm pulling weeds.
I've always liked books. I like books now. I like magazines and pamphlets.
I like liner notes for CDs. I like the sides of cereal boxes. I like the
yellow pages of phone books in cities where I don't live, to see what they
advertise that Albuquerque never even heard of, like dehumidifiers and earthquake
preparedness kids and training.
What my shortlist of "things that change people" was has been named by
others, all by one. My ideas were:
meditation/prayer
time (maturity)
parenthood/marriage/divorce/jobs (which I would categorize as "change of
status," and say "responsibility can changes a person")
Self reflection changes me, but maybe that should go with meditation/prayer.
Someone asked what non-spiritual explanation/term for changes after illness
might be, and I think maybe it's that adversity brings on different
biochemistry, and new neural pathways (and emotional "sets") are created during
adversity. We learn to cope.
I'm thinking (and it's just an early idea, not a theory or a conviction) that
maybe ALL those things (books, people and all the rest) change us only at the
point at which we learn. Learning changes us.
And if so, that brings me back to the first question. Did this person mean
to suggest that the only things we learn from are people and books?
Sandra
stuff, and have been thinking about it all the time I'm pulling weeds.
I've always liked books. I like books now. I like magazines and pamphlets.
I like liner notes for CDs. I like the sides of cereal boxes. I like the
yellow pages of phone books in cities where I don't live, to see what they
advertise that Albuquerque never even heard of, like dehumidifiers and earthquake
preparedness kids and training.
What my shortlist of "things that change people" was has been named by
others, all by one. My ideas were:
meditation/prayer
time (maturity)
parenthood/marriage/divorce/jobs (which I would categorize as "change of
status," and say "responsibility can changes a person")
Self reflection changes me, but maybe that should go with meditation/prayer.
Someone asked what non-spiritual explanation/term for changes after illness
might be, and I think maybe it's that adversity brings on different
biochemistry, and new neural pathways (and emotional "sets") are created during
adversity. We learn to cope.
I'm thinking (and it's just an early idea, not a theory or a conviction) that
maybe ALL those things (books, people and all the rest) change us only at the
point at which we learn. Learning changes us.
And if so, that brings me back to the first question. Did this person mean
to suggest that the only things we learn from are people and books?
Sandra
sheila
"I'm thinking (and it's just an early idea, not a theory or a conviction) that
maybe ALL those things (books, people and all the rest) change us only at the
point at which we learn. Learning changes us.
And if so, that brings me back to the first question. Did this person mean
to suggest that the only things we learn from are people and books? "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about atmosphere? A stimulating atmosphere vs. a sterile boring atmosphere has to change a person. A kid who grows up in a house where he can't touch anything and it just feels stuffy and stifling would probably have a different outlook on the world than he would have if he had grown up in a stimulating house where he had freedom to create and make messes. And a person who goes from having her own house to be institutionalized is sometimes changed so much that they give up and die (I'm thinking old people who want to remain in their home but are forced into nursing homes).
But that takes us right back to your theory (or early idea <g>) again. Because atmosphere affects how you learn. It also affects emotions though too. A little old lady happy and content in her home can become despondent when she has to leave it...is it because she can't learn and think the way she wants to in the institution? Maybe!
Then there's love and shame and acceptance and fear and other emotions. Someone could learn a lot academically even though she's made fun of or ignored by most of the people around her. A kid who's abused at home and never learned to be herself and is withdrawn so much into a shell that the other kids make fun of her and so she just throws herself into academic work in school because it's all she has. She's learning, but not learning the same things she would have learned if she had been loved and accepted and free to be herself.
"Someone asked what non-spiritual explanation/term for changes after illness
might be, and I think maybe it's that adversity brings on different
biochemistry, and new neural pathways (and emotional "sets") are created during
adversity. We learn to cope."
The movie What the Bleep Do we Know hit on that a little bit. It talked about how the chemical patterns in our brain affect everything about us, and how we can consciously change the chemical patterns in our brain to create what we want to see in our lives.
Oh, so I think movies could be added to the list!
I have heard people say that What the Bleep was life changing. Several people on other lists said that they actually think they'll be able to break addictions because of watching the movie.
I watched the movie and enjoyed it, but I really got the most insight from it when talking to my husband and friend about it. (That's an interesting thing I'm learning about myself...I always thought of myself as such an introvert, yet I'm realizing as I've been reflecting on this thread that I really do learn and change the most when I discuss ideas with other people. )
I remember as a kid our church would show those end time movies. Anyone else from a conservative Christian background remember them? Thief in the night, Mark of the Beast, Distant thunder (http://www.amfchristianvideos.com/Thief_Night.htm). LOTS of people "went forward" to commit their lives to Christ after those movies. Lots of little kids (including me!) had nightmares after those movies. So there's another example of life-changing (maybe in a not so positive way, imo) movie.
Sheila
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
maybe ALL those things (books, people and all the rest) change us only at the
point at which we learn. Learning changes us.
And if so, that brings me back to the first question. Did this person mean
to suggest that the only things we learn from are people and books? "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about atmosphere? A stimulating atmosphere vs. a sterile boring atmosphere has to change a person. A kid who grows up in a house where he can't touch anything and it just feels stuffy and stifling would probably have a different outlook on the world than he would have if he had grown up in a stimulating house where he had freedom to create and make messes. And a person who goes from having her own house to be institutionalized is sometimes changed so much that they give up and die (I'm thinking old people who want to remain in their home but are forced into nursing homes).
But that takes us right back to your theory (or early idea <g>) again. Because atmosphere affects how you learn. It also affects emotions though too. A little old lady happy and content in her home can become despondent when she has to leave it...is it because she can't learn and think the way she wants to in the institution? Maybe!
Then there's love and shame and acceptance and fear and other emotions. Someone could learn a lot academically even though she's made fun of or ignored by most of the people around her. A kid who's abused at home and never learned to be herself and is withdrawn so much into a shell that the other kids make fun of her and so she just throws herself into academic work in school because it's all she has. She's learning, but not learning the same things she would have learned if she had been loved and accepted and free to be herself.
"Someone asked what non-spiritual explanation/term for changes after illness
might be, and I think maybe it's that adversity brings on different
biochemistry, and new neural pathways (and emotional "sets") are created during
adversity. We learn to cope."
The movie What the Bleep Do we Know hit on that a little bit. It talked about how the chemical patterns in our brain affect everything about us, and how we can consciously change the chemical patterns in our brain to create what we want to see in our lives.
Oh, so I think movies could be added to the list!
I have heard people say that What the Bleep was life changing. Several people on other lists said that they actually think they'll be able to break addictions because of watching the movie.
I watched the movie and enjoyed it, but I really got the most insight from it when talking to my husband and friend about it. (That's an interesting thing I'm learning about myself...I always thought of myself as such an introvert, yet I'm realizing as I've been reflecting on this thread that I really do learn and change the most when I discuss ideas with other people. )
I remember as a kid our church would show those end time movies. Anyone else from a conservative Christian background remember them? Thief in the night, Mark of the Beast, Distant thunder (http://www.amfchristianvideos.com/Thief_Night.htm). LOTS of people "went forward" to commit their lives to Christ after those movies. Lots of little kids (including me!) had nightmares after those movies. So there's another example of life-changing (maybe in a not so positive way, imo) movie.
Sheila
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]