Melinda

Hi All,

I have a couple of thoughts re. follow-ups on the
follow-ups ;*)

-Mary B.

Yes, you are welcome to post anything I have posted
re. CPS, anywhere that you believe it will be of use
to �unschoolers�/�homeschoolers

It should be noted that arriving at the advice I have
given is a result of : speaking with an attorney that
specializes in �homeschool� advocacy, approx. 40 hours
of research focused entirely on dealing with CPS and
�homeschoolers,� and a completely positive outcome
that ended with no entry to my home, no interviews
with my self, my husband or our 4 children and no
further contacts with CPS.

The anger that Katy is now feeling is part of
grieving. The emotional turmoil this event causes
truly is the death of security for an unschooler�. The
majority of my online unschool time was filled with
legislative �homeschool boards for 2 years after this
incident occurred.

It's not about being nice or polite or "appearing"
innocent. It's about ending the investigation as
quickly and completely as possible.

PLEASE, take the documents to the worker. DO NOT open
the door for her, or any other government authority,
without a search warrant.
(Which, her having the documents should prevent being
issued.)

If your home met the standard for "neglect" I would
assume she would have moved to remove your child at
the time. However, if she was coming back for a second
look-see, I would spend my time putting all the
furniture back in place, sweep, mop, vacuum, whatever
might be viewed as "messy" on the slight chance that
she does decide to return with a warrant.

There are parents who have made that invitation and
had the child removed on the spot. Rare? Yes. But not
if you are the one it happens to. Then it's a 100%
rate of occurrence.

Below are the comments to which I am referring.
Please do not mistake my additional entreaties as
pushiness. It's just that- having experienced this
situation, I am painfully aware of the sticking
points. -Those being the ones that will get you Stuck
in a Great Big Mess.

As mentioned before, I too did the "polite" thing.
Though I denied her entrance into my home, I called
and set up an appointment for her to come a few days
later.

I did that out of fear and arrogance. She'd threatened
to burst in with the police- causing Fear. And, I Knew
that MY home and MY children were far above any CPS
standard- Arrogance.

"If you have nothing to hide ... " This is the naive
posture that keeps most �homeschoolers� feeling safe.
It's like the flotation device, aka seat cushion, in
an airplane. Has anyone Ever been saved by one of
those things? I seriously doubt it.

Being upright, caring, loving, committed, responsible,
responsive and willing-to-die for your children will
NOT prevent CPS from showing up at your door and
deciding that you are in need of intervention.

The fact that she showed up has confirmed the first
half of that scenario. It is your job to eliminate the
possibility of further consequences.

CPS is not generic. For all practical purposes, It is
one individual, with her own beliefs, preconceived
notions, limited education and 5 inch thick department
manual, who has the authority to traumatize your
entire family. The prerogative to use that power may
be why she took the job. Or maybe not. What is certain
is that inviting her in like a neighbor foolishly
ignores the reality of the situation.

KATY,
Getting over your rudeness from breaking your date
with her will happen much more easily with your child
safely at home. Do you really care about disappointing
this woman's plans more than preserving the integrity
of your family?�

She is not coming for tea. She is making a second
visit to interrogate you, your child, your husband and
to see if you've had Hazel come and make your place
shiny and clean enough to warrant her approval.

You know that she has not yet judged you "fit".
Otherwise, she would not be returning.

As for the educational issues, the NM law with which
you are in compliance seems to cover that.

As your follow-up mentions, she was not there to
investigate educational issues- at all. Don't offer
any information in that area.

THIS is why you should have been given a report with
specific charges denoted. She's fishing ... which
makes her an antagonist.

As for her ' "couldn't" give me a copy until the
investigation was complete. ' This is b--- s---.
This is a tactic that is used to keep you in the dark
and fearful. I would call the state attorney's office
and ask them what the legal procedure entails. Does an
individual being investigated have the right to know
what the allegations against them are?

Your cop friend knows what "neglect" in a home looks
like. It's not your house, or she'd have removed your
son at the time.

Your friend who suggested complying is giving you the
"company line". It comes from a place of employee
loyalty. It is not good legal advice.

Stay strong, refute the charges and the result should
be in your favor.

I will assemble the best �homeschool� legal � sources
with which I am acquainted and post asap. I don't know
of any "Complete" resource. Though, I do know that
�NHEN� was attempting to create one.

Melinda
__________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:38:07 EDT
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: Re: CPS suggestions Follow-Up
>
>
> In a message dated 4/22/2005 10:42:48 PM Mountain
> Daylight Time,
> melinda2u@... writes:
>
> Also, just as you don't want to invite in
> authorities
> without a
> warrant, likewise, I would not offer anything
> beyond
> that which
> proves you're legal and that your child is healthy.
>
> CPS has no business evaluating your records.
> Should
> they do
> so and decide that they aren't sufficient, then
> another Pandora's
> box could be opened.
>
>
>
>
> ===========
>
> That's all true.
> It maybe be that if she agreed for them to come
> back, they're coming back,
> though.
> Depends on the state, the county, whether she signed
> something maybe.
>
> I would DEFINITELY ask for the records in advance.
> There might be something
> in there that lets you know who reported it, and
> it's possible that would
> help. If it's an ex-anything (boyfriend, in law,
> husband, best friend) it
> could be harrassment, and all KINDS of government
> workers are familiar with being
> used as pawns in other people's personal vendettas,
> and they don't like it
> any.
>
> If it's a neighbor just being irritated that kids
> are there in the daytime,
> that's a different kind of complaint again.
>
> The family I know best who got visits didn't get
> them for homeschooling.
> They had adopted three kids and so they were already
> a case file with agencies.
> Homeschooling was just one more thing for them to
> ask about.
>
> Sandra
>

>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:59:02 EDT
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: Re: CPS Suggestions
>
> Melinda,
>
> Is there a webpage by any chance with advice
> gathered? I've saved your
> response for the next time someone asks, but is
> there a place we could send them
> for additional advice too?
>
> Thanks. I'm really sorry it happened to you, and
> thanks for sharing it here.
>
> Sandra
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:27:03 -0000
> From: "Roslynn" <rroseacademy@...>
> Subject: Re: Children's Protective Services
>
>
>
> I have always been told that if they show up at my
> door to not let
> them in. I do not have to invite them in my home.
> HSLDA will have
> some good advice for you but I think you have to be
> a member? I would
> be careful at this point because you did o.k. a home
> visit and if you
> now say they aren't allowed they will think you have
> something to
> hide. It's a nervous thing to think about and I
> hope all turns out
> well for you!
>
> Roslynn
>
>
> > The officer interviewed me and Richard, and will
> be back next week
> to tour my house. I am a little worried, because I
> tend to freeze up
> when confronted, I am not very good with words. I
> think I explained
> what we do pretty well though.
> > Katy
> >
_____________________________]
>
>
>

> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:44:16 -0700
> From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Children's Protective Services
>
> >>>>>>>>HSLDA will have
> some good advice for you but I think you have to be
> a member?>>>>>>>>
>
> Local and State homeschool groups have more accurate
> information than HSLDA.
>
> Mary Ellen
>

>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 12:26:09 -0600
> From: "Katy Jennings" <kjennings95@...>
> Subject: [Unschooling Discussion] re: CPS
>
> I wrote most of this last night, and then
> accidentally sent it to a list member instead of the
> list! Sorry Mary Ellen, and thanks for letting me
> know.
> Thanks for all of your responses. I am a little
> calmer now, though still scared and confused,
> wondering who would do this. Actually this morning
> those feelings are fading and I am getting more and
> more angry...
>
> I am in New Mexico.
> In NM we have to submit a form by April 1 every year
> notifying the state that we are homeschooling,
> maintain immunization records, maintain records that
> you have a diploma or GED, and it is SUGGESTED that
> you keep a "school" calendar.
> I have done all of these things, I am fully legal,
> though the calendar is really just my little day
> planner, it does have all of our trips and stuff.
>
> As I wrote before, the report stated that Richard
> has never been to school and that I am not
> registered (I am), but it also stated that we live
> in "filthy" conditions with "clutter and clothes"
> all over the place that you can hardly walk around.
> It said that my house stunk and that it was a fire
> hazard because of all the clutter. This is
> considered personal neglect, which is why CPS is
> involved, and not dept of Education, though they
> certainly had a lot of questions about our
> homeschooling!
> My house is cluttered, but certainly not a fire
> hazard! I am in the slow process of painting the
> bedrooms, so most of the stuff from my bedroom is in
> the front room. At the moment we don't go in there
> (the front room) at all, as there are two living
> areas. The process is so slow because I work full
> time and I spend as much of my time off with
> Richard, not on house-related stuff. So yes, I
> admit it is messy.
>
> I know someone in another branch of the Children
> Youth and Families Department who gave me the
> impression that it was better to comply with letting
> the officer into my home, now I question that
> decision. :~( Her thought was that I had nothing
> to hide, so don't act like it. I have gotten all of
> my paperwork together, and am going to put together
> a "curriculum" (thanks for the link Sandra).
>
> When she first showed up, I had just gotten done
> with 3 night shifts. I don't usually work nights,
> but I was covering for someone who was on vacation.
> So when the officer showed up I was sleeping. She
> looked around and informed me of the complaint, and
> said that she would come back for her formal visit.
> I immediately went to the childcare and while I was
> there she showed up to talk to Richard, so she
> talked to him with me there. I was told that in
> cases where child safety is concerned they don't
> have to allow the parent to sit in the interview
> with the child. She was surprised that the police
> had not already contacted me, she said that in cases
> of suspected child neglect the police will come and
> inspect the property. I have a friend who is a cop
> who happened to come by tonight, so I asked him
> about it. He said yeah, your house is messy but it
> is not what they are looking for when they suspect
> neglect.
>
> My thinking now is that as Roslynn and Sandra
> mentioned I did pretty much say it was ok for her to
> come back, so if I were to not let her in now it
> would look bad. I did ask for a copy of the
> report, and was told that she "couldn't" give me a
> copy until the investigation was complete. She said
> that the report was anonymous, and when I looked
> over her shoulder there was no name where the
> reporter would go, but I guess that really doesn't
> mean anything.
>
> You know, before this happened to me, when I would
> read about things like this happening to other
> people I would think, well, there must be something
> else going on. There must be some "real" reason for
> them to be investigated. I am appalled at my
> thinking now.
> Thanks for all of your support and responses,
> Katy

>______________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:21:11 -0400
> From: "Mary" <mummy124@...>
> Subject: Re: CPS Suggestions
>
> Melinda,
>
> I was wondering if it would be okay for me to
> forward your email to my local
> homeschooling group? It was full of great advice.
> One of our members also
> recently had a run in with DCF here in FL. She too
> let them in out of fear.
> I have also always heard to never let anyone in you
> don't have to.
>
> Anyway, I would like to send your email on so that
> those who think it could
> never happen to them can at least be aware of what
> to do if.
>
> Mary B
>
>





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