Thanks for Posts to Unmotivated...
Latoya
Thanks to everyone that posted to my question and guidance on my in
law. I've discussed the posts with my husband and we've decided that
unschooling is not for this particular child (there are 5 of them in
the house; 2 of which are my own). I believe that the unschooling is
definitely working with my 6 year old. She's in to everything and I
simply assist her where she needs assistance. She wanted to play
piano - lessons it is. She wanted to
We're not going to supply everything fun for him because of the
history of running away, slashing teaher's tires, and stealing - and
2005 hasn't gotten underway yet. I compared him to a 3rd grade level
because that's how I relate to it. I definitely don't like the way
the school system is set up. I would like for him to follow in my
child's footsteps, however, they have 2 different paths from which
they come.
James (is his name, by the way) cannot move on to the fun things
because he can't read/comprehend the fun things. He did not get the
basics from school and we are having to do those things now. We
don't care about the grade level issue because that would be crazy
trying to make up 4 or 5 years in 1 year or a summer. We have to
find a way to make him see that its not just memorization; learning
will start to click (hell, it happens all the time), however, he has
to take some steps toward more positive living and learning.
I posted because I wanted to get a variety of ways that we/he could
approach learning. I do appreciate the posts because I found a new
spirit within them to keep it happy and not all stuffy overall.
That's definitely important.
Gotta help him to find a niche,
Latoya
www.naturalfamilyboutique.com/?Latoya
law. I've discussed the posts with my husband and we've decided that
unschooling is not for this particular child (there are 5 of them in
the house; 2 of which are my own). I believe that the unschooling is
definitely working with my 6 year old. She's in to everything and I
simply assist her where she needs assistance. She wanted to play
piano - lessons it is. She wanted to
We're not going to supply everything fun for him because of the
history of running away, slashing teaher's tires, and stealing - and
2005 hasn't gotten underway yet. I compared him to a 3rd grade level
because that's how I relate to it. I definitely don't like the way
the school system is set up. I would like for him to follow in my
child's footsteps, however, they have 2 different paths from which
they come.
James (is his name, by the way) cannot move on to the fun things
because he can't read/comprehend the fun things. He did not get the
basics from school and we are having to do those things now. We
don't care about the grade level issue because that would be crazy
trying to make up 4 or 5 years in 1 year or a summer. We have to
find a way to make him see that its not just memorization; learning
will start to click (hell, it happens all the time), however, he has
to take some steps toward more positive living and learning.
I posted because I wanted to get a variety of ways that we/he could
approach learning. I do appreciate the posts because I found a new
spirit within them to keep it happy and not all stuffy overall.
That's definitely important.
Gotta help him to find a niche,
Latoya
www.naturalfamilyboutique.com/?Latoya
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/21/2005 2:45:41 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
latoyadenise@... writes:
-=-We're not going to supply everything fun for him because of the
history of running away, slashing teaher's tires, and stealing -=-=-
Has he run away from a home wher people were willing to let him have some
things that were fun?
As he has slashed teachers' tires, I'm even more surprised that you want to
refer to him as "a student." That makes you the teacher.
-=-and
2005 hasn't gotten underway yet.-=-
It's April 21.
2005 is 1/3 gone.
What do you mean?
Are you still talking and thinking in schoolish terms?
-=- I compared him to a 3rd grade level
because that's how I relate to it.-=-
School has harmed him. The more you drop of it, the less harm you continue
to do yourself, in school's stead.
-=-I definitely don't like the way the school system is set up.-=-
Yet you're bringing it home.
-=- I would like for him to follow in my
child's footsteps, however,-=-
"Follow" in your very young child's footsteps? Yikes.
If you figure out how to appreciate the good parts of him, that will be way
better. Don't define him as less than your child, or on a wrong path or
worse path.
It won't help him, or you, or your child, or your family for you to do that.
-=-James (is his name, by the way) cannot move on to the fun things
because he can't read/comprehend the fun things.=-
That is flawed reasoning. Look:
_http://sandradodd.com/r/hollydodd_ (http://sandradodd.com/r/hollydodd)
(http://sandradodd.com/r/holly)
When Holly couldn't read, she was WAY better at some things than the others
around her, because she couldn't read. It surprised me, but it was true.
She wasn't a really little kid, either.
In case you're not following the links people are providing, here's what
that says:
Advantages Discovered from Later Reading
[Holly Dodd read late, and though it was frustrating a time or two, she read
when she read. Before then, there were instances when it showed an
advantageous side.]
____________________________________
When Holly was nine she was in a play, and she wasn't reading yet. She was
afraid she would not know her lines, so every day she got me to read through
her scene, and she paid careful attention at rehearsals, and rehearsed with
another family's kids. As it turned out, her inability to read along during
rehearsals ended up being a boon. The following was posted on
[email protected] in April 2003:
<< If the homeschooler's theater has its performance set for May 10, and
first rehearsal is April 1, an unschooler can see that it would be best to know
their lines by then. >>
Oh right! That's an example I forgot to give. Holly was in a play, put on by
the city's theatre, but an all-homeschoolers' session with daytime
rehearsals.
Holly learned all her lines early, since she couldn't read and needed help.
As rehearsals went on, she learned everyone else's lines too. Since they were
leaning on being able to read from scripts during rehearsals, they weren't
memorizing their lines.
When the performance came two of the three main characters were Holly and her
best friend, who knew their lines. The third didn't know his. A couple of
times when it didn't matter, one of them said his line, and left the response
to him. If he didn't catch it, the other of the girls would say the response.
(Most of what they were doing was exposition or dialog that wasn't at all
character specific.) If it made him mad, he didn't dare say so, because he
didn't know his part.
But Holly was so disgusted with the others, she had no interest in the next
play they offered.
That's too bad. Somehow she met deadlines TOO well?
Sandra Dodd
2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
latoyadenise@... writes:
-=-We're not going to supply everything fun for him because of the
history of running away, slashing teaher's tires, and stealing -=-=-
Has he run away from a home wher people were willing to let him have some
things that were fun?
As he has slashed teachers' tires, I'm even more surprised that you want to
refer to him as "a student." That makes you the teacher.
-=-and
2005 hasn't gotten underway yet.-=-
It's April 21.
2005 is 1/3 gone.
What do you mean?
Are you still talking and thinking in schoolish terms?
-=- I compared him to a 3rd grade level
because that's how I relate to it.-=-
School has harmed him. The more you drop of it, the less harm you continue
to do yourself, in school's stead.
-=-I definitely don't like the way the school system is set up.-=-
Yet you're bringing it home.
-=- I would like for him to follow in my
child's footsteps, however,-=-
"Follow" in your very young child's footsteps? Yikes.
If you figure out how to appreciate the good parts of him, that will be way
better. Don't define him as less than your child, or on a wrong path or
worse path.
It won't help him, or you, or your child, or your family for you to do that.
-=-James (is his name, by the way) cannot move on to the fun things
because he can't read/comprehend the fun things.=-
That is flawed reasoning. Look:
_http://sandradodd.com/r/hollydodd_ (http://sandradodd.com/r/hollydodd)
(http://sandradodd.com/r/holly)
When Holly couldn't read, she was WAY better at some things than the others
around her, because she couldn't read. It surprised me, but it was true.
She wasn't a really little kid, either.
In case you're not following the links people are providing, here's what
that says:
Advantages Discovered from Later Reading
[Holly Dodd read late, and though it was frustrating a time or two, she read
when she read. Before then, there were instances when it showed an
advantageous side.]
____________________________________
When Holly was nine she was in a play, and she wasn't reading yet. She was
afraid she would not know her lines, so every day she got me to read through
her scene, and she paid careful attention at rehearsals, and rehearsed with
another family's kids. As it turned out, her inability to read along during
rehearsals ended up being a boon. The following was posted on
[email protected] in April 2003:
<< If the homeschooler's theater has its performance set for May 10, and
first rehearsal is April 1, an unschooler can see that it would be best to know
their lines by then. >>
Oh right! That's an example I forgot to give. Holly was in a play, put on by
the city's theatre, but an all-homeschoolers' session with daytime
rehearsals.
Holly learned all her lines early, since she couldn't read and needed help.
As rehearsals went on, she learned everyone else's lines too. Since they were
leaning on being able to read from scripts during rehearsals, they weren't
memorizing their lines.
When the performance came two of the three main characters were Holly and her
best friend, who knew their lines. The third didn't know his. A couple of
times when it didn't matter, one of them said his line, and left the response
to him. If he didn't catch it, the other of the girls would say the response.
(Most of what they were doing was exposition or dialog that wasn't at all
character specific.) If it made him mad, he didn't dare say so, because he
didn't know his part.
But Holly was so disgusted with the others, she had no interest in the next
play they offered.
That's too bad. Somehow she met deadlines TOO well?
Sandra Dodd
2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/21/2005 2:45:41 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
latoyadenise@... writes:
-=-He did not get the
basics from school and we are having to do those things now. -=-
You don't have to. You're choosing to.
You don't have to. Kirby never had "the basics" from school or anywhere
else, but he figured out a lot of stuff on his own. He didn't figure out
notation, but it doesn't take long.
Less than an hour ago he came home with his final math class results. He's
18 and took his first ever math class. His test score was 96, highest in the
class. His final score was third in the class (over 20 in the class, all
others had been to school and "had the basics"). It's a CR/NC class. It
would've been an A, but it's CR, just as the others.
You don't have to "do those things now" that you're doing with your brother
in law.
-=-We
don't care about the grade level issue because that would be crazy
trying to make up 4 or 5 years in 1 year or a summer. -=-
Yes, it would. But you do care about the grade level issue because you
wrote it down and sent it to strangers. You think of him as a third grader (or
whichever grade you thought about, and chose to write down). You defined him
as an X-grader. Now we know his name is James, but that is entirely
secondary in the way you presented him.
-=- We have to
find a way to make him see that its not just memorization-=-
Maybe if you leave it alone a while, he will figure out that it's not just
memorization. My kids all did.
More teaching is not the cure for damage-from-teaching.
-=-I do appreciate the posts because I found a new
spirit within them to keep it happy and not all stuffy overall.
That's definitely important.=-
Happier school at home is still school, still teaching.
Schools try all the time to make the experience "happier" for kids, not so
stuffy. They paint grey walls blue. They get textbooks with more colorful
colors. They get a prettier clock. Teachers are told that humor helps, and so
they come in, make a joke, and then present the same dull lesson. Cosmetic
token changes don't make the big difference. Less stuffy is still stuffy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
latoyadenise@... writes:
-=-He did not get the
basics from school and we are having to do those things now. -=-
You don't have to. You're choosing to.
You don't have to. Kirby never had "the basics" from school or anywhere
else, but he figured out a lot of stuff on his own. He didn't figure out
notation, but it doesn't take long.
Less than an hour ago he came home with his final math class results. He's
18 and took his first ever math class. His test score was 96, highest in the
class. His final score was third in the class (over 20 in the class, all
others had been to school and "had the basics"). It's a CR/NC class. It
would've been an A, but it's CR, just as the others.
You don't have to "do those things now" that you're doing with your brother
in law.
-=-We
don't care about the grade level issue because that would be crazy
trying to make up 4 or 5 years in 1 year or a summer. -=-
Yes, it would. But you do care about the grade level issue because you
wrote it down and sent it to strangers. You think of him as a third grader (or
whichever grade you thought about, and chose to write down). You defined him
as an X-grader. Now we know his name is James, but that is entirely
secondary in the way you presented him.
-=- We have to
find a way to make him see that its not just memorization-=-
Maybe if you leave it alone a while, he will figure out that it's not just
memorization. My kids all did.
More teaching is not the cure for damage-from-teaching.
-=-I do appreciate the posts because I found a new
spirit within them to keep it happy and not all stuffy overall.
That's definitely important.=-
Happier school at home is still school, still teaching.
Schools try all the time to make the experience "happier" for kids, not so
stuffy. They paint grey walls blue. They get textbooks with more colorful
colors. They get a prettier clock. Teachers are told that humor helps, and so
they come in, make a joke, and then present the same dull lesson. Cosmetic
token changes don't make the big difference. Less stuffy is still stuffy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley
> I believe that the unschooling isThis really stands out to me. Just because someone is interested in
> definitely working with my 6 year old. She's in to everything and I
> simply assist her where she needs assistance. She wanted to play
> piano - lessons it is.
something doesn't necessarily mean that they want and/or "need" lessons
on it. My 8.5 yo has been interested in the piano for a couple of years
now. We got her a keyboard, we take her around full sized pianos and
let her play until she is tired of it (or we have to leave that place),
we started showing her sheet music, etc. We offered lessons so that she
knew that they existed, but she isn't interested and she plays quite
well by ear. She doesn't even need sheet music.
Reminds me of when I wanted to learn more about Feng Shui. I had read
about 30 books on the subject and countless websites. I saw that a
class was being offered locally and I signed up. What a waste of money.
I knew more than the instructor.
Kids need to know that their parents/guardians have faith and trust in
them, not that we'll sign them up for lessons at their first spark of
interest in something.
-Lisa in AZ
nellebelle
>>>>>>>> I've discussed the posts with my husband and we've decided thatunschooling is not for this particular child (there are 5 of them in
the house; 2 of which are my own). I believe that the unschooling is
definitely working with my 6 year old. She's in to everything and I
simply assist her where she needs assistance.>>>>>>>>>>
I hope you will stick around this list and read, read, read. What you said above gives me the impression that you don't really understand what unschooling means.
Although you will hear stories of unschooled children who decided to learn a particular thing (algebra or a foreign language, maybe) and asked for the curriculum materials and sat down and studied it until it was finished, those stories are NOT what unschooling is all about. It is NOT about waiting for the child to "get motivated" to do school work.
It is about appreciating what the child IS interested in and helping him find a variety of ways to follow that interest. It is more than that, as well, but that is a good place to start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>James (is his name, by the way) cannot move on to the fun thingsbecause he can't read/comprehend the fun things.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I can think of plenty of fun things that do not require reading.
I have a 9 year old dd, Jackie, who is not yet an independent reader. She has fun all the time. In fact, she sometimes makes herself laugh by pretending to laugh, then it turns into a real laugh and we can't help but join in. It makes me feel good inside just thinking about her doing that and the day she told me that she does it on purpose because she likes to make us laugh. She listens to music, dances, draws, paints, sculpts, plays on the computer, computes arithmetic problems in her head, counts her money, dreams about ways to spend her money, listens to audio books, asks me or her dad to read to her, watches movies, has many friends, and much much more.
If you mean that you will not ALLOW him to do fun things until he accomplishes some task that YOU have set for him, well, that just plain sounds mean to me and I hope you can come to understand that unschooling will not happen in that atmosphere.
>>>>>>>>>>learning will start to click (hell, it happens all the time), however, he hasto take some steps toward more positive living and learning.>>>>>>>>>
You just wrote that learning happens all the time. Why would he need to take a step toward it? Why will it "start" to click? It already is clicking for him. He just needs someone who will accept that what he learns is worthwhile.
YOU have to take some steps toward being positive towards him, being loving, letting him be who he is - not who you think he should be.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**
James (is his name, by the way) cannot move on to the fun things
because he can't read/comprehend the fun things. He did not get the
basics from school and we are having to do those things now. We
don't care about the grade level issue because that would be crazy
trying to make up 4 or 5 years in 1 year or a summer. We have to
find a way to make him see that its not just memorization; learning
will start to click (hell, it happens all the time), however, he has
to take some steps toward more positive living and learning.**
Hi, Latoya --
I just wanted to mention that I have found that kids will try harder to read things that they think are fun.
My two cents,
Betsy
James (is his name, by the way) cannot move on to the fun things
because he can't read/comprehend the fun things. He did not get the
basics from school and we are having to do those things now. We
don't care about the grade level issue because that would be crazy
trying to make up 4 or 5 years in 1 year or a summer. We have to
find a way to make him see that its not just memorization; learning
will start to click (hell, it happens all the time), however, he has
to take some steps toward more positive living and learning.**
Hi, Latoya --
I just wanted to mention that I have found that kids will try harder to read things that they think are fun.
My two cents,
Betsy
mother_bhaer
I believe that the unschooling is
interested in piano and that is deemed "acceptable" by you.
However, James is into rap and drums and that is not "acceptable" to
you. Why should you be the one that decides his interests are not
worthwhile. My MIL sees my dd as "loving to learn" only because she
is interested in "schoolish" looking things, reading, writing,
drawing, etc. My ds loves to learn too! He loves video games,
magic tricks, Legos, and Star Wars. It just isn't "acceptable" to
learn from those things. Why should an individual's development not
be enjoyable? I haven't figured that one out yet! Not only that,
but does it really mean you are educated if you learn "the basics"
but can't apply them? Maybe you are truly educated if you learn a
set of facts and dates for a test and then proceed to forget them a
day later.
Terri
> definitely working with my 6 year old. She's in to everything andI
> simply assist her where she needs assistance. She wanted to playLatoya, James needs to be accepted by you. Your daughter is
> piano - lessons it is. She wanted to
>
>
interested in piano and that is deemed "acceptable" by you.
However, James is into rap and drums and that is not "acceptable" to
you. Why should you be the one that decides his interests are not
worthwhile. My MIL sees my dd as "loving to learn" only because she
is interested in "schoolish" looking things, reading, writing,
drawing, etc. My ds loves to learn too! He loves video games,
magic tricks, Legos, and Star Wars. It just isn't "acceptable" to
learn from those things. Why should an individual's development not
be enjoyable? I haven't figured that one out yet! Not only that,
but does it really mean you are educated if you learn "the basics"
but can't apply them? Maybe you are truly educated if you learn a
set of facts and dates for a test and then proceed to forget them a
day later.
Terri