Heidi Crane

Hi Bob

I haven't gotten into the discussion heretofore, but reading it has been
interesting. I just wanted to interject an empathetic thump on the back,
along with a recommendation. Don't consider this "the wrong place." If you
want to change how you think about education, parenting, relationships with
your kids and others...then stick around. Read a LOT. Read an article or a
thread, then read some more. Read at the unschooling.com forum. I don't know
the URL for that one, but it's got lots of good stuff, too.

Know that many people come to visit here, and get a feeling of "woah! nelly"
at the plethora of responses to questions, etc. This happened to me when I
first started reading here, two years or so ago. And I must say, I'm a
different person than I was back then. I also know more about what
unschooling is. My off-the-cuff, knee jerk impression of unschooling was
that it is a completely and totally hands-off approach, with objective,
uninvolved parents, and no interaction between parent and child. The image I
had in my mind was one of kids out of control while parents pulled their
hair out, wondering what to do, because "Oh, no! what can we do? we can't
tell them how to behave! they want to do this, and we can't do a thing about
it! oh, no!" That isn't it at all.

with unschooling, the parent is sort of like a guide. An observant,
interested, involved guide, helping the kids take on their world, without
putting up barriers that needn't be there. Need there be barriers? Well,
yeah. They have to live in a world where some behaviors are frowned upon.
Swearing for example. It's entirely possible to allow any language inside
the family, while giving the kids guidance about how the world thinks about
certain types of language. So, the barrier would be along the lines of "by
the way, most adults don't like it when kids say shit." or perhaps defining
a word. I have a friend whose boys started using the term "gay wad" left and
right. Pre-teens. She explained what that term actually meant, without
telling them they couldn't say such things, and... they stopped using that
term.

Well, anyway. Don't ditch. Even if you don't post, do continue to read. And
DO continue to ask questions. It's pretty average for a newbie to throw a
few things into the mix, and get PLENTY of responses, that might make you
feel defensive. This list tells it like it is, and doesn't mince words, and
has lots of wisdom and warmth (and some heat!) If you keep on absorbing,
you'll "get" the flavor of the place, and come to appreciate it.

Blessings, HeidiC (a different Heidi)

>I'm just the new guy asking some questions. And seeing as I don't even
>understand this
>stuff yet, I certainly don't know how to preview my posts to ensure that I
>don't say
>anything that might be deemed counterproductive. It's not my intent, but I
>reserve the
>right to screw up now and then. Perhaps I'm in the wrong place. I see now
>that this is for
>discussion. I'm certainly not able to "discuss" this with you folks as I
>don't know what I'm
>doing.

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/17/2005 11:04:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

-=-with unschooling, the parent is sort of like a guide. An observant,
interested, involved guide, helping the kids take on their world, without
putting up barriers that needn't be there. Need there be barriers? Well,
yeah. They have to live in a world where some behaviors are frowned upon.
Swearing for example.-=-


---------------------

Elevator etiquette.

We don't live in a big elevator town, so my kids rarely ride in an elevator,
but they understand the etiquette from watching and from a few pointers when
they were little. I told them in the same way I would've told an adult
visitor from a place with no elevators. Last in, first out; move to the back.
If you're nearest the buttons, it's nice to ask those entering which floor
they need. If you enter and can't reach the buttons, but your floor's already
pressed, it's polite to non-verbally indicate that you're good and the one
nearest doesn't need to press anything (whether he had offered to or not).

When I go to a cafeteria I've never been to, it's GREAT for someone to tell
me what the routine is. They don't all work the same way.

My kids were born into a world with lots of routines and traditions, and I
just share those as they come along, and we discuss how it used to be, why
things changed, how it might be someday. That ties everything together. We
were just talking yesterday about how easy it is for kids online to meet friends
of friends, not just electronically but in person, eventually, sometimes.
Not so when I was a kid. If they didn't go to our school and there wasn't a
party, it wasn't easy to meet other kids' other friends. And in the 19th
century and before, LOTS of introductions were made by letter. Sometimes a letter
mailed ahead. Sometimes a letter hand-carried by the introductee. A guy
shows up with letter from the person's relative or friend in another city,
recommending him as a good guy and obligating the receiver to entertain him at
least once (a meal, a stay, something). People weren't even supposed to talk
to people to whom they hadn't been formally introduced, yet some of the
formal introductions were like blindsidings. VERY different.

I COULD just tell my kids what to do, but I much prefer to tell them WHY
people do things they do, and what I know has happened in worst-case scenarios,
or which things are vestiges of older traditions, and which are vitally
important or new. There are courtesies about parking and driving, putting the
trash out, bringing the mail in, answering the phone--all KINDS of things, and
if they understand those in a thoughtful and aware way, they'll be better in
the future with roommates and spouses, with neighbors, at work...

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

cordjax

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/17/2005 11:04:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> bunsofaluminum60@h... writes:
>
> -=-with unschooling, the parent is sort of like a guide. An
observant,
> interested, involved guide, helping the kids take on their world,
without
> putting up barriers that needn't be there. Need there be
barriers? Well,
> yeah. They have to live in a world where some behaviors are
frowned upon.
> Swearing for example.-=-
>
>
> ---------------------
>
> Elevator etiquette.
>
> We don't live in a big elevator town, so my kids rarely ride in
an elevator,
> but they understand the etiquette from watching and from a few
pointers when
> they were little. I told them in the same way I would've told an
adult
> visitor from a place with no elevators. Last in, first out; move
to the back.
> If you're nearest the buttons, it's nice to ask those entering
which floor
> they need. If you enter and can't reach the buttons, but your
floor's already
> pressed, it's polite to non-verbally indicate that you're good
and the one
> nearest doesn't need to press anything (whether he had offered to
or not).
>
> When I go to a cafeteria I've never been to, it's GREAT for
someone to tell
> me what the routine is. They don't all work the same way.
>
> My kids were born into a world with lots of routines and
traditions, and I
> just share those as they come along, and we discuss how it used to
be, why
> things changed, how it might be someday. That ties everything
together. We
> were just talking yesterday about how easy it is for kids online
to meet friends
> of friends, not just electronically but in person, eventually,
sometimes.
> Not so when I was a kid. If they didn't go to our school and
there wasn't a
> party, it wasn't easy to meet other kids' other friends. And in
the 19th
> century and before, LOTS of introductions were made by letter.
Sometimes a letter
> mailed ahead. Sometimes a letter hand-carried by the
introductee. A guy
> shows up with letter from the person's relative or friend in
another city,
> recommending him as a good guy and obligating the receiver to
entertain him at
> least once (a meal, a stay, something). People weren't even
supposed to talk
> to people to whom they hadn't been formally introduced, yet some
of the
> formal introductions were like blindsidings. VERY different.
>
> I COULD just tell my kids what to do, but I much prefer to tell
them WHY
> people do things they do, and what I know has happened in worst-
case scenarios,
> or which things are vestiges of older traditions, and which are
vitally
> important or new. There are courtesies about parking and driving,
putting the
> trash out, bringing the mail in, answering the phone--all KINDS of
things, and
> if they understand those in a thoughtful and aware way, they'll be
better in
> the future with roommates and spouses, with neighbors, at work...
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


I'm a newbee (sp), but I have posted a few times. This etiquette
thing reminds me of a recent situation with my youngest. We decided
to try Tae Kwon Do at the local library, and the instructor was
adamant about the use of the titles; "sir" and "ma'am." We don't
expect our children to use those at home, but living in the South
can create some awkward situations. So awkward, that a friend of
ours told us a story involving their son at the local elementary
school that was part of the reason for pulling their son out of the
school. The teacher was demanding the term ma'am when answering yes
or no, but the son didn't use it at home either. So, I've explained
to my son that the terms are a signt of respect that is used and
part of the program. "When in Rome...

ATC