Question about my 4 year old and doing things
Kim J. Flowers
I am having some questions about my 4 1/2 year old, Tyler, and his problem
with doing things. We ask him nicely and respectfully to brush his teeth or
get dressed or to do something necessary and his response is "I hate doing
things, people always say do this and do that and always tell me to do
things". We, in my opinion, do not "boss" him around, we ask him nicely to
do things. I hate it that he feels bossed around and doesn't want to even
do the necessary things in life simply because he was asked to. At least
that is what it seems like. We have even tried asking him if he would like
to do this or that and trying to make it sound worth his while, but that
doesn't work either. He just sighs and falls to the ground like we have
once again bossed him around. Any advice on how to handle this would be
greatly appreciated. We are at a complete loss. Thanks.
Kim Flowers - Wife to Nolan for 9 years
Stay at Home Mama of 4 wonderful boys
"I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at
once."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with doing things. We ask him nicely and respectfully to brush his teeth or
get dressed or to do something necessary and his response is "I hate doing
things, people always say do this and do that and always tell me to do
things". We, in my opinion, do not "boss" him around, we ask him nicely to
do things. I hate it that he feels bossed around and doesn't want to even
do the necessary things in life simply because he was asked to. At least
that is what it seems like. We have even tried asking him if he would like
to do this or that and trying to make it sound worth his while, but that
doesn't work either. He just sighs and falls to the ground like we have
once again bossed him around. Any advice on how to handle this would be
greatly appreciated. We are at a complete loss. Thanks.
Kim Flowers - Wife to Nolan for 9 years
Stay at Home Mama of 4 wonderful boys
"I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at
once."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn Adams
> I am having some questions about my 4 1/2 year old, Tyler, and his problemor
> with doing things. We ask him nicely and respectfully to brush his teeth
> get dressed or to do something necessary and his response is "I hate doingto
> things, people always say do this and do that and always tell me to do
> things". We, in my opinion, do not "boss" him around, we ask him nicely
> do things. I hate it that he feels bossed around and doesn't want to evenlike
> do the necessary things in life simply because he was asked to. At least
> that is what it seems like. We have even tried asking him if he would
> to do this or that and trying to make it sound worth his while, but thatMaybe he doesn't mean you're bossing him but means he feels your questions
> doesn't work either. He just sighs and falls to the ground like we have
> once again bossed him around. Any advice on how to handle this would be
> greatly appreciated. We are at a complete loss. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
arn't honest our that you're trying to manioulate him and 'bossy' is just
the only word he can come up with?
You ask him nicely but is he allowed to say no and have that respected?
Making it sound worthwhile might come across as pushing the issue and trying
to get a yes out of him.
Just some thoughts.
Dawn (in NS)
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soggyboysmom
Are you asking asking (where No is a valid answer) or is asking a
way of telling him to do things that maybe sounds a little nicer to
your ears? If "No" is not a valid answer, you're not really giving
him options are you? "Necessary" things as defined by who? You? Or
him? Yes, toothbrushing is important BUT does it have to be done
right then, in that way, in that room, with that toothbrush, and
that toothpaste? Does he have options as far as dressing or not
dressing, picking out his own clothing, getting help in getting
dressed (even if he CAN do it himself he might not always WANT to do
it himself - my almost 7 yr old still likes to have assistance
sometimes)? My DS, since he's at home much of the time, can choose
whether to put on clothing or not. And, yes, sometimes that
translates into a naked boy around the house all day. Even in
winter. In New England. He has gone and put on clothing or found a
blanket on occasions when he feels cold. We request that he wear at
least a pair of shorts if he goes outdoors or we have guests over to
the house. He can totally understand that in the context of keeping
his private parts private (and keeping bugs and stuff off them in
the summer when he's outdoors most of the daylight hours). Your own
sense of what is "necessary" is not likely the same as that of a 4
or 5 yr old. For example, DS dislikes wearing shoes even more than
wearing clothing. BUT in order to go in to his favorite restaurant,
mini-mart, grocery store, he MUST wear footwear. So, he has a
choice - stay in the car (with Daddy) while I run in, get fast food
from the drive thru, etc or put on footwear to come in. Both are
valid options. He has a true choice. No battles. He doesn't
feel "bossed", we don't have to push him.
way of telling him to do things that maybe sounds a little nicer to
your ears? If "No" is not a valid answer, you're not really giving
him options are you? "Necessary" things as defined by who? You? Or
him? Yes, toothbrushing is important BUT does it have to be done
right then, in that way, in that room, with that toothbrush, and
that toothpaste? Does he have options as far as dressing or not
dressing, picking out his own clothing, getting help in getting
dressed (even if he CAN do it himself he might not always WANT to do
it himself - my almost 7 yr old still likes to have assistance
sometimes)? My DS, since he's at home much of the time, can choose
whether to put on clothing or not. And, yes, sometimes that
translates into a naked boy around the house all day. Even in
winter. In New England. He has gone and put on clothing or found a
blanket on occasions when he feels cold. We request that he wear at
least a pair of shorts if he goes outdoors or we have guests over to
the house. He can totally understand that in the context of keeping
his private parts private (and keeping bugs and stuff off them in
the summer when he's outdoors most of the daylight hours). Your own
sense of what is "necessary" is not likely the same as that of a 4
or 5 yr old. For example, DS dislikes wearing shoes even more than
wearing clothing. BUT in order to go in to his favorite restaurant,
mini-mart, grocery store, he MUST wear footwear. So, he has a
choice - stay in the car (with Daddy) while I run in, get fast food
from the drive thru, etc or put on footwear to come in. Both are
valid options. He has a true choice. No battles. He doesn't
feel "bossed", we don't have to push him.
[email protected]
Kim, please capitalize all vowels when you post to this list, if you don't
mind,
lIkE thIs, sEE?
And as soon as you can, could you send us a list of the names of all the
dogs you've ever owned? Thanks! I really appreciate it.
------------
Not really.
But did it sound like I was asking you really nicely to do something that
made good sense to you and that you would have done anyway?
It's probably how your polite requests are sounding to your four year old.
-=-He just sighs and falls to the ground like we have
once again bossed him around. -=-
But you have bossed him around.
If Kirby (who's 18 and has had the same job for over four years) goes to
work this afternoon (which he's doing at 5:30) and his boss says, "Kirby! I'm
so glad to see you! Could you work tomorrow and Sunday and addition to Friday
and Saturday? And could you open tomorrow?" I think he wouldn't REALLY
think he could say "No, thanks" without repercussions. BUT... because they've
usually been really generous with him when he needs time off, he would probably
say "can't tomorrow until later; algebra test--but can Sunday."
If all the directives come from the parents, the child will balk.
If parents are as willing to do what he kid thinks up or requests or
wants,and to do it quickly and happily, the child is way more likely to help the mom
(even if the "help" is making her feel better by brushing his teeth).
-=- I hate it that he feels bossed around and doesn't want to even
do the necessary things in life simply because he was asked to. -=-
Please read this and consider what is "necessary" and why.
_http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto_
(http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mind,
lIkE thIs, sEE?
And as soon as you can, could you send us a list of the names of all the
dogs you've ever owned? Thanks! I really appreciate it.
------------
Not really.
But did it sound like I was asking you really nicely to do something that
made good sense to you and that you would have done anyway?
It's probably how your polite requests are sounding to your four year old.
-=-He just sighs and falls to the ground like we have
once again bossed him around. -=-
But you have bossed him around.
If Kirby (who's 18 and has had the same job for over four years) goes to
work this afternoon (which he's doing at 5:30) and his boss says, "Kirby! I'm
so glad to see you! Could you work tomorrow and Sunday and addition to Friday
and Saturday? And could you open tomorrow?" I think he wouldn't REALLY
think he could say "No, thanks" without repercussions. BUT... because they've
usually been really generous with him when he needs time off, he would probably
say "can't tomorrow until later; algebra test--but can Sunday."
If all the directives come from the parents, the child will balk.
If parents are as willing to do what he kid thinks up or requests or
wants,and to do it quickly and happily, the child is way more likely to help the mom
(even if the "help" is making her feel better by brushing his teeth).
-=- I hate it that he feels bossed around and doesn't want to even
do the necessary things in life simply because he was asked to. -=-
Please read this and consider what is "necessary" and why.
_http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto_
(http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ruth
Hi Dawn
I have two little boys here who hated teeth cleaning, hated getting bathed and hated getting dressed. One would scream and one would go off in a strop if he felt he was being made to do it. Now this sounds radical but I stopped making them. End of it. If they sat in p.j's all day so what? If they didn't clean their teeth -so what? Bathing - so what? The battle was over. After a few days when it dawned on them that to go outanywhere interesting they had to get dressed and to go out they needed to be clean ( ie not smell is good enough here) the problem was mainly solved. Their teeth did not drop out and no one complained about their hygiene.. Now one cleans his teeth himself without being asked and the other does if given a choice of times.. They both are given a choice of bathtimes and choose when it will take place. It does not happen everyday.They do not have to get dressed. It is their choice. They choose to if they want to go out. Sometimes they will go and dress after they have finished on the computer or watching t.v. It depends. They will wear shoes if they are going out if it is cold. They choose not to wear them all year round in the garden. They are healthy and happy and it doesn't matter.
Ruth
____________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have two little boys here who hated teeth cleaning, hated getting bathed and hated getting dressed. One would scream and one would go off in a strop if he felt he was being made to do it. Now this sounds radical but I stopped making them. End of it. If they sat in p.j's all day so what? If they didn't clean their teeth -so what? Bathing - so what? The battle was over. After a few days when it dawned on them that to go outanywhere interesting they had to get dressed and to go out they needed to be clean ( ie not smell is good enough here) the problem was mainly solved. Their teeth did not drop out and no one complained about their hygiene.. Now one cleans his teeth himself without being asked and the other does if given a choice of times.. They both are given a choice of bathtimes and choose when it will take place. It does not happen everyday.They do not have to get dressed. It is their choice. They choose to if they want to go out. Sometimes they will go and dress after they have finished on the computer or watching t.v. It depends. They will wear shoes if they are going out if it is cold. They choose not to wear them all year round in the garden. They are healthy and happy and it doesn't matter.
Ruth
____________________________________________________________________________
This email and all attachments have been electronically scanned by Kingston
Communications' email Anti-Virus service and no known viruses were detected.
____________________________________________________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim J. Flowers
What I think is necessary is when I have to take the baby to the doctor and
I cannot get him to get dressed because they HAVE to wear clothing. Truly,
I am not being picky here and trying to make my kids do things just for the
hell of making them do them. I don't also have the money to cover all the
dental work necessary to allow them to make poor choices regarding their
dental health. No they don't HAVE to brush their teeth in this or that room
at this or that time, but they do need to be brushed twice a day and flossed
once a day. I don't make up "rules" just for the sake of having them, I
only make rules that are necessary for health, safety, or to keep CPS away
from me (like taking them into public with no clothes on). If I can help it
and not go somewhere when they don't want to, then I don't.
SO, my whole point, is I want you to understand where I am coming from and
know that I am not just blabbing to him at the mouth with no apparent
reason.
Kim Flowers - Wife to Nolan for 9 years
Stay at Home Mama of 4 wonderful boys
"I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at
once."
_____
From: soggyboysmom [mailto:debra.rossing@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Question about my 4 year old and doing
things
Are you asking asking (where No is a valid answer) or is asking a
way of telling him to do things that maybe sounds a little nicer to
your ears? If "No" is not a valid answer, you're not really giving
him options are you? "Necessary" things as defined by who? You? Or
him? Yes, toothbrushing is important BUT does it have to be done
right then, in that way, in that room, with that toothbrush, and
that toothpaste? Does he have options as far as dressing or not
dressing, picking out his own clothing, getting help in getting
dressed (even if he CAN do it himself he might not always WANT to do
it himself - my almost 7 yr old still likes to have assistance
sometimes)? My DS, since he's at home much of the time, can choose
whether to put on clothing or not. And, yes, sometimes that
translates into a naked boy around the house all day. Even in
winter. In New England. He has gone and put on clothing or found a
blanket on occasions when he feels cold. We request that he wear at
least a pair of shorts if he goes outdoors or we have guests over to
the house. He can totally understand that in the context of keeping
his private parts private (and keeping bugs and stuff off them in
the summer when he's outdoors most of the daylight hours). Your own
sense of what is "necessary" is not likely the same as that of a 4
or 5 yr old. For example, DS dislikes wearing shoes even more than
wearing clothing. BUT in order to go in to his favorite restaurant,
mini-mart, grocery store, he MUST wear footwear. So, he has a
choice - stay in the car (with Daddy) while I run in, get fast food
from the drive thru, etc or put on footwear to come in. Both are
valid options. He has a true choice. No battles. He doesn't
feel "bossed", we don't have to push him.
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I cannot get him to get dressed because they HAVE to wear clothing. Truly,
I am not being picky here and trying to make my kids do things just for the
hell of making them do them. I don't also have the money to cover all the
dental work necessary to allow them to make poor choices regarding their
dental health. No they don't HAVE to brush their teeth in this or that room
at this or that time, but they do need to be brushed twice a day and flossed
once a day. I don't make up "rules" just for the sake of having them, I
only make rules that are necessary for health, safety, or to keep CPS away
from me (like taking them into public with no clothes on). If I can help it
and not go somewhere when they don't want to, then I don't.
SO, my whole point, is I want you to understand where I am coming from and
know that I am not just blabbing to him at the mouth with no apparent
reason.
Kim Flowers - Wife to Nolan for 9 years
Stay at Home Mama of 4 wonderful boys
"I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at
once."
_____
From: soggyboysmom [mailto:debra.rossing@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Question about my 4 year old and doing
things
Are you asking asking (where No is a valid answer) or is asking a
way of telling him to do things that maybe sounds a little nicer to
your ears? If "No" is not a valid answer, you're not really giving
him options are you? "Necessary" things as defined by who? You? Or
him? Yes, toothbrushing is important BUT does it have to be done
right then, in that way, in that room, with that toothbrush, and
that toothpaste? Does he have options as far as dressing or not
dressing, picking out his own clothing, getting help in getting
dressed (even if he CAN do it himself he might not always WANT to do
it himself - my almost 7 yr old still likes to have assistance
sometimes)? My DS, since he's at home much of the time, can choose
whether to put on clothing or not. And, yes, sometimes that
translates into a naked boy around the house all day. Even in
winter. In New England. He has gone and put on clothing or found a
blanket on occasions when he feels cold. We request that he wear at
least a pair of shorts if he goes outdoors or we have guests over to
the house. He can totally understand that in the context of keeping
his private parts private (and keeping bugs and stuff off them in
the summer when he's outdoors most of the daylight hours). Your own
sense of what is "necessary" is not likely the same as that of a 4
or 5 yr old. For example, DS dislikes wearing shoes even more than
wearing clothing. BUT in order to go in to his favorite restaurant,
mini-mart, grocery store, he MUST wear footwear. So, he has a
choice - stay in the car (with Daddy) while I run in, get fast food
from the drive thru, etc or put on footwear to come in. Both are
valid options. He has a true choice. No battles. He doesn't
feel "bossed", we don't have to push him.
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075> click here
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin
--- In [email protected], "Kim J. Flowers" <kim@t...> wrote:
I would explore what things can be optional, and if they are just don't ask him to do them (like get dressed). My daughter tends to like being naked, my son is always dressed. However, he wears shorts through most of the winter. If we're going out, they understand that getting dressed is part of what needs to happen before we go out. If they don't want to get dressed, then not going out might be another option, or finding some really fun clothes to wear (like a spiderman costume or something) might be another option, or me helping them get dressed might be another option - there's lots of options between getting dressed and not getting dressed. My daughter really likes it if I pick out some clothes for her (something I know she'll want to wear) and stick it in the clothes dryer with the load of laundry I'm drying in the morning. That way she gets to put on cozy, warm, comfy clothes - what a great feeling! I keep our ski bag in the car, so we always have coats, hats, mittens, socks, and snowsuits handy when we're going somewhere. If we go on our bikes or walk, I put the kids fleece and windbreakers in a backpack just in case they get chilly.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
Kids are God; Pay attention. - Viggo Mortensen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am having some questions about my 4 1/2 year old, Tyler, and his problemMy first question is: Is teeth brushing non-negotiable? If so, why are you asking him to do it? If you ask someone to do something, you need to be able to accept a "no" answer, at least in my book. If there are things that are non-negotiable (we try to keep that list very small in our house, but teeth-brushing is one of them), I don't ask them if they want to do it. I talk with my kids about why it is important, and why it *is* something that we do every day, and then when it is time to brush their teeth, I say simply "teeth brushing time" or I ask them to do it sometime in the morning before we go out, or whatever. And I'm okay with the few things that I mandate (like teeth brushing), because we tried making that one optional and $2000 worth of dental work under scary general anesthetic later, I'm okay with making it an necessary thing.
> with doing things. We ask him nicely and respectfully to brush his teeth or
> get dressed or to do something necessary and his response is "I hate doing
> things, people always say do this and do that and always tell me to do
> things". We, in my opinion, do not "boss" him around, we ask him nicely to
> do things.
I would explore what things can be optional, and if they are just don't ask him to do them (like get dressed). My daughter tends to like being naked, my son is always dressed. However, he wears shorts through most of the winter. If we're going out, they understand that getting dressed is part of what needs to happen before we go out. If they don't want to get dressed, then not going out might be another option, or finding some really fun clothes to wear (like a spiderman costume or something) might be another option, or me helping them get dressed might be another option - there's lots of options between getting dressed and not getting dressed. My daughter really likes it if I pick out some clothes for her (something I know she'll want to wear) and stick it in the clothes dryer with the load of laundry I'm drying in the morning. That way she gets to put on cozy, warm, comfy clothes - what a great feeling! I keep our ski bag in the car, so we always have coats, hats, mittens, socks, and snowsuits handy when we're going somewhere. If we go on our bikes or walk, I put the kids fleece and windbreakers in a backpack just in case they get chilly.
> I hate it that he feels bossed around and doesn't want to evenMaybe he's picking up on the idea that you're trying to make something that is non-negotiable into a question? It might feel dishonest to him. Or if you're trying to make something sound fun that he thinks is not, he might feel like his own feelings are being ignored. It might work better to just acknowledge his feelings, and see if there are ways that you can work toward a mutually agreeable solution.
> do the necessary things in life simply because he was asked to. At least
> that is what it seems like. We have even tried asking him if he would like
> to do this or that and trying to make it sound worth his while, but that
> doesn't work either.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
Kids are God; Pay attention. - Viggo Mortensen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], "Robin" <tri_mom@c...>
wrote:
We ask him nicely and respectfully to brush his teeth or
need to be able to accept a "no" answer, at least in my book. If
there are things that are non-negotiable (we try to keep that list
appointment, I'll give lots of notice, but I'm not going to debate
the subject *at that time*. Distracting and diverting or just being
silly can sometimes help, even at 4 (or 35, lol). Making sure that
I've gotten everything ready so that I can give ds 5-10 minutes to
slowly get dressed helps. Getting there on time is MY problem, not
his.
I'm all for avoiding power struggles. That's not the same as taking
part in one and "letting the child win." Don't like that phrasing,
but if you are standing there feeling bad at upsetting him, he's got
a lot of power over your emotions. Like Robin said, I know I don't
insist on much and there's a good reason for those few things (I
think, I hope, I constantly ask myself!).
I'd try to talk about it at a different time. Hey, tomorrow we're
going to the doctor and I don't want to argue with you. What can we
do that will make us both happy?
I forget which list I brought it up on back in December, but I'd had
to do some shopping with the kids (4 and almost 2 at the time) and it
didn't always go well, even with much discussion and promises of
trips to the toy store, etc. A number of people said, well, yeh,
young kids aren't always going to enjoy errands, but sometimes we
have to go, esp. to have food to eat and little things like that.
Okay, I found the discussion (about going out and some other issues I
was having) from December, on AlwaysUnschooling, the list for
unschooling younger kids, if you are a member or want to join:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/message/2016
or the link to the group's homepage:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
I found this in one of my responses to the great thoughts others had:
"I've been so actively trying to change the way I parent for about 1.5
years now that sometimes I tend to focus too much on "that was wrong,
I need to fix it so I/he/she/we aren't upset". Things are going to go
wrong and it may be my fault, but being self-critical isn't always
the immediate answer. Need to breathe more and look for joy instead
of just trying to avoid strife."
hth,
aj
wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "Kim J. Flowers"<kim@t...> wrote:
We ask him nicely and respectfully to brush his teeth or
> > get dressed or to do something necessary and his response is "Ihate doing
> > things, people always say do this and do that and always tell meto do
> > things".are you asking him to do it? If you ask someone to do something, you
> My first question is: Is teeth brushing non-negotiable? If so, why
need to be able to accept a "no" answer, at least in my book. If
there are things that are non-negotiable (we try to keep that list
>very small in our house, but teeth-brushing is one of them), I don'tI agree on the treatment of non-negotiable tasks. If we have an
>ask them if they want to do it. I talk with my kids about why it is
>important, and why it *is* something that we do every day
appointment, I'll give lots of notice, but I'm not going to debate
the subject *at that time*. Distracting and diverting or just being
silly can sometimes help, even at 4 (or 35, lol). Making sure that
I've gotten everything ready so that I can give ds 5-10 minutes to
slowly get dressed helps. Getting there on time is MY problem, not
his.
I'm all for avoiding power struggles. That's not the same as taking
part in one and "letting the child win." Don't like that phrasing,
but if you are standing there feeling bad at upsetting him, he's got
a lot of power over your emotions. Like Robin said, I know I don't
insist on much and there's a good reason for those few things (I
think, I hope, I constantly ask myself!).
I'd try to talk about it at a different time. Hey, tomorrow we're
going to the doctor and I don't want to argue with you. What can we
do that will make us both happy?
I forget which list I brought it up on back in December, but I'd had
to do some shopping with the kids (4 and almost 2 at the time) and it
didn't always go well, even with much discussion and promises of
trips to the toy store, etc. A number of people said, well, yeh,
young kids aren't always going to enjoy errands, but sometimes we
have to go, esp. to have food to eat and little things like that.
Okay, I found the discussion (about going out and some other issues I
was having) from December, on AlwaysUnschooling, the list for
unschooling younger kids, if you are a member or want to join:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/message/2016
or the link to the group's homepage:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
I found this in one of my responses to the great thoughts others had:
"I've been so actively trying to change the way I parent for about 1.5
years now that sometimes I tend to focus too much on "that was wrong,
I need to fix it so I/he/she/we aren't upset". Things are going to go
wrong and it may be my fault, but being self-critical isn't always
the immediate answer. Need to breathe more and look for joy instead
of just trying to avoid strife."
hth,
aj
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/16/05 4:47:41 PM, grayfamily9@...
writes:
<< They both are given a choice of bathtimes and choose when it will take
place. It does not happen everyday. >>
When mine were little, they went through phases of wanting to take two baths
a day (to play in the water) or not liking it. If they were in an aversion
phase, we'd just wait for extreme dirt or need, or set up backyard water-play
(wading pool, sprinkler, washing toy dishes on the patio or in the tub).
When they each reached puberty, they started taking a shower first thing
after waking up. I didn't suggest it. They just do it. They shower more than I
do or my husband does (probably because we have long hair and that's a
pain)--we'll skip a day sometimes, but they never do. Today Marty took a shower even
though he wasn't leaving the house at all and nobody came over (and he had
his wisdom teeth out Monday). He took one yesterday too, but a friend was
coming by so maybe that was why.
Had we tried to make them shower, they wouldn't be as calmly happy to take
showers now for their own personal reasons.
If we had tried to make them against their will, the situation would have
been set up so that a shower meant parents won, and a shower meant the kid lost.
Kids don't want to be losers. Too many parents insist that their children
become losers.
Maybe it's not so fair to blame schools for that low self-esteem and
neediness when mealtime, bedtime, bathtime, tv, computers and bicycles can become
arenas of defeat in cases of parental insistence and control.
Sandra
writes:
<< They both are given a choice of bathtimes and choose when it will take
place. It does not happen everyday. >>
When mine were little, they went through phases of wanting to take two baths
a day (to play in the water) or not liking it. If they were in an aversion
phase, we'd just wait for extreme dirt or need, or set up backyard water-play
(wading pool, sprinkler, washing toy dishes on the patio or in the tub).
When they each reached puberty, they started taking a shower first thing
after waking up. I didn't suggest it. They just do it. They shower more than I
do or my husband does (probably because we have long hair and that's a
pain)--we'll skip a day sometimes, but they never do. Today Marty took a shower even
though he wasn't leaving the house at all and nobody came over (and he had
his wisdom teeth out Monday). He took one yesterday too, but a friend was
coming by so maybe that was why.
Had we tried to make them shower, they wouldn't be as calmly happy to take
showers now for their own personal reasons.
If we had tried to make them against their will, the situation would have
been set up so that a shower meant parents won, and a shower meant the kid lost.
Kids don't want to be losers. Too many parents insist that their children
become losers.
Maybe it's not so fair to blame schools for that low self-esteem and
neediness when mealtime, bedtime, bathtime, tv, computers and bicycles can become
arenas of defeat in cases of parental insistence and control.
Sandra
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<I don't also have the money to cover all the
dental work necessary to allow them to make poor choices regarding their
dental health. >>>>>
The number of times this issue has come up repeatedly on this list is huge.
Historically posting this idea is likely to bring in a small avalanche of
replies about how so much of dental health - generally defined re children
as an absence of cavities - probably has more to do with genetics and
apparently good luck than any regularity of tooth brushing.
I would rather Jayn had some cavities in her teeth than there be a gaping,
festering hole of my creating in our relationship. I have never enforced
tooth brushing. She is 5, and her teeth did start to come in "late", at one
year. Of course she sees me and dh brushing, and we have gone through a
lengthy process of finding toothpastes that she likes the taste of. She is
also aware of the one large cavity she has in a molar. Rather than express
the inaccurate information that brushing *will* prevent cavities, I tell her
that brushing is more likely to mean fewer cavities, as well as fresher
breath. She also knows that it will be more important to brush more often
when her adult teeth come in. She has recently spontaneously begun brushing
her teeth several times a day, rotating through her selection of fun
toothbrushes, and sometimes flossing. This is actually unnecessary as her
baby teeth are wide apart.
We have taken visiting the dentist very gradually. Six months ago she came
with me to my cleaning, and wanted to sit in the chair and "get her teeth
counted". She asked a lot of questions. Now I am on a quest to find a nice,
gentle, lady dentist (Jayn wants a woman) who uses air abrasion when
possible, instead of drilling. We will be interviewing and choose the person
Jayn likes best, and she is looking forward to the visits.
More importantly we have never had a battle about something as trivial as
this. By trivial I mean an issue that modeling and maturity are demonstrably
taking care of in a way that results in Jayn brushing her teeth *more
frequently* and of her own accord, than if I were making rules about it.
<<<< No they don't HAVE to brush their teeth in this or that room
at this or that time, but they do need to be brushed twice a day and flossed
once a day. I don't make up "rules" just for the sake of having them, I
only make rules that are necessary for health, safety, or to keep CPS away
from me (like taking them into public with no clothes on). >>>>>
Seriously, it is very easy to find all kinds of reasons entrenched in the
dominant ideology of Western cultures to choose "enforcing rules" and
abrogating the very idea of choice by believing that many things *are*
necessary that on examination may not be. It is much harder to find
encouragement to move beyond what society deems "necessary" and what our
culture deems "safe". If you hang around Unschooling lists for long enough
you will find these ideas being stretched.
What happens to your kids if they refused to brush one day? Is whatever
might be the next step you take going to enhance or diminish your
relationship with them? You need not answer here necessarily, just think
about it. Are they brushing because they fear the consequences you will
impose, or because they agree that brushing is a good idea? If the latter,
why is a rule "needed" at all?
<<<<< If I can help it
and not go somewhere when they don't want to, then I don't.
SO, my whole point, is I want you to understand where I am coming from and
know that I am not just blabbing to him at the mouth with no apparent
reason. >>>>>>
We all know you have reasons for believing you *need* rules. Most of us grew
up in traditionally parented families with rules, punishments (gentle or
harsh) and lack of autonomy. It is more helpful for people trying to get to
Unschooling with joy if there is less defensiveness and more discussion of
Principles and alternative strategies. We can get support for insisting on
tooth brushing or clothing or any other parental mandate at any mainstream
parenting site or publication. However there are ideas for another way to
live right here.
For example when I genuinely *have to* go somewhere that is genuinely
important (rare), and Jayn must come with me due to a lack other child care
personnel (ie dh is busy), I have a process that allows her to say "no" as
often as she needs to until she is ready. I alter my internal clock or
timetable to her slower pace of transitioning. If she wanted to leave the
house without clothing (never happened yet) I would carry her clothes with
me, in full view of passers by, so that they were both available to her
instantly, and so that others could see them and may feel humorous about it
instead of judgmental. This strategy works for sweaters and coats and shoes
in cold weather also. The others probably assume I am "teaching her a life
lesson through experience" instead of just living life simply without
conflict. When she wants to wear odd clothes or pajamas it is meaningless to
me; I make no qualitative judgments about her clothing choices.
Danielle Conger had a great article about Rules vs Principles in a recent
issue of Life Learning Magazine.
www.LifeLearningMagazine.com
One of the reasons I just love Radical Unschooling is because it shows me a
way of life that minimizes the opportunities for conflict that I bring into
our home and relationships. It goes beyond the ordinary advice of "pick your
battles" that is often offered in ordinary traditional parenting, to how to
renounce an adversarial relationship with our children. Jayn and I still
have opposing desires sometimes, but the basic paradigm is resolving issues
without coercion and with respect.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/2005
dental work necessary to allow them to make poor choices regarding their
dental health. >>>>>
The number of times this issue has come up repeatedly on this list is huge.
Historically posting this idea is likely to bring in a small avalanche of
replies about how so much of dental health - generally defined re children
as an absence of cavities - probably has more to do with genetics and
apparently good luck than any regularity of tooth brushing.
I would rather Jayn had some cavities in her teeth than there be a gaping,
festering hole of my creating in our relationship. I have never enforced
tooth brushing. She is 5, and her teeth did start to come in "late", at one
year. Of course she sees me and dh brushing, and we have gone through a
lengthy process of finding toothpastes that she likes the taste of. She is
also aware of the one large cavity she has in a molar. Rather than express
the inaccurate information that brushing *will* prevent cavities, I tell her
that brushing is more likely to mean fewer cavities, as well as fresher
breath. She also knows that it will be more important to brush more often
when her adult teeth come in. She has recently spontaneously begun brushing
her teeth several times a day, rotating through her selection of fun
toothbrushes, and sometimes flossing. This is actually unnecessary as her
baby teeth are wide apart.
We have taken visiting the dentist very gradually. Six months ago she came
with me to my cleaning, and wanted to sit in the chair and "get her teeth
counted". She asked a lot of questions. Now I am on a quest to find a nice,
gentle, lady dentist (Jayn wants a woman) who uses air abrasion when
possible, instead of drilling. We will be interviewing and choose the person
Jayn likes best, and she is looking forward to the visits.
More importantly we have never had a battle about something as trivial as
this. By trivial I mean an issue that modeling and maturity are demonstrably
taking care of in a way that results in Jayn brushing her teeth *more
frequently* and of her own accord, than if I were making rules about it.
<<<< No they don't HAVE to brush their teeth in this or that room
at this or that time, but they do need to be brushed twice a day and flossed
once a day. I don't make up "rules" just for the sake of having them, I
only make rules that are necessary for health, safety, or to keep CPS away
from me (like taking them into public with no clothes on). >>>>>
Seriously, it is very easy to find all kinds of reasons entrenched in the
dominant ideology of Western cultures to choose "enforcing rules" and
abrogating the very idea of choice by believing that many things *are*
necessary that on examination may not be. It is much harder to find
encouragement to move beyond what society deems "necessary" and what our
culture deems "safe". If you hang around Unschooling lists for long enough
you will find these ideas being stretched.
What happens to your kids if they refused to brush one day? Is whatever
might be the next step you take going to enhance or diminish your
relationship with them? You need not answer here necessarily, just think
about it. Are they brushing because they fear the consequences you will
impose, or because they agree that brushing is a good idea? If the latter,
why is a rule "needed" at all?
<<<<< If I can help it
and not go somewhere when they don't want to, then I don't.
SO, my whole point, is I want you to understand where I am coming from and
know that I am not just blabbing to him at the mouth with no apparent
reason. >>>>>>
We all know you have reasons for believing you *need* rules. Most of us grew
up in traditionally parented families with rules, punishments (gentle or
harsh) and lack of autonomy. It is more helpful for people trying to get to
Unschooling with joy if there is less defensiveness and more discussion of
Principles and alternative strategies. We can get support for insisting on
tooth brushing or clothing or any other parental mandate at any mainstream
parenting site or publication. However there are ideas for another way to
live right here.
For example when I genuinely *have to* go somewhere that is genuinely
important (rare), and Jayn must come with me due to a lack other child care
personnel (ie dh is busy), I have a process that allows her to say "no" as
often as she needs to until she is ready. I alter my internal clock or
timetable to her slower pace of transitioning. If she wanted to leave the
house without clothing (never happened yet) I would carry her clothes with
me, in full view of passers by, so that they were both available to her
instantly, and so that others could see them and may feel humorous about it
instead of judgmental. This strategy works for sweaters and coats and shoes
in cold weather also. The others probably assume I am "teaching her a life
lesson through experience" instead of just living life simply without
conflict. When she wants to wear odd clothes or pajamas it is meaningless to
me; I make no qualitative judgments about her clothing choices.
Danielle Conger had a great article about Rules vs Principles in a recent
issue of Life Learning Magazine.
www.LifeLearningMagazine.com
One of the reasons I just love Radical Unschooling is because it shows me a
way of life that minimizes the opportunities for conflict that I bring into
our home and relationships. It goes beyond the ordinary advice of "pick your
battles" that is often offered in ordinary traditional parenting, to how to
renounce an adversarial relationship with our children. Jayn and I still
have opposing desires sometimes, but the basic paradigm is resolving issues
without coercion and with respect.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/2005
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 16, 2005, at 6:43 PM, Kim J. Flowers wrote:
First it will help to not think in terms of have to but in terms of
helping kids get what they want (and avoid what they don't want.)
Kids don't want cavities! But often there's something in between them
and that goal. And it's rarely "toothbrushing" as a whole. It can be
toothpaste. Or toothbrush. Or -- quite often -- being made to do it.
I eat cereal every morning. But if my husband handed me a bowl of
cereal and hovered over me to make sure I ate it, I'd start associating
a bowl of cereal with being coerced and controlled and I'd be
entertaining thoughts on how to avoid my morning cereal -- though
really I'd be trying to avoid the morning's dose of control.
Parents assume they know what their children's characters are because
they're with them all the time :-) But if the parents control some
aspects of their kids' lives, the parents really only know how their
kids react to control.
If your kids resist the toothbrushing you make them do, you only know
how they react to being *made* to brush their teeth, not how they react
to toothbrushing.
If you let go of control, yes, they will probably not brush!
But, if instead of an atmosphere of "you have no choice", you create an
atmosphere of being their partner who will do whatever she can to help
them, they won't have to avoid brushing teeth in order to feel in
control.
Unlike lack of oxygen, lack of brushing and flossing for a day will not
have disastrous results. ;-) In fact a few of weeks while they adjust
to not being made to brush and accept that you're their partner rather
than their controller will not result in cavities.
What you've done is taken a general piece of advice for the broad
population and engraved it in stone as though it were a truth and then
you're chipping at your relationship for something that isn't as dire
as you're telling your children that it is.
What is closer to the truth is brushing teeth twice a day will help
*most* people have fewer cavities. But kids can go for days without
brushing while you help them find ways to make brushing less onerous.
make him do what you want to do willingly and cheerfully.
But you can change the attitude you approach him with and that will
have an affect on his reaction. He may still not want to put on clothes
but he won't be fighting against what he perceives as your need to
control him.
Again it helps to not think in terms of "have to". Turn your thinking
around. You *want* him in clothes so you don't get in trouble. By
putting on clothes when he doesn't want to he's doing you a favor.
Think of it as a *huge* favor you're asking him to do because from his
point of view it is. And thank him for helping you out by letting you
dress him. Thank him for inconveniencing him, for taking him from fun
things and helping you out even if he didn't enjoy the process. Do
something nice for him for helping you out, like ice cream afterwards.
Picture it like this scenario: You've just gotten into the bath for a
long soak. And your husband comes rushing in saying "Honey, I'm really
sorry but I've just had word that I need to leave for the airport in 10
minutes and I have to pack. Would you do me a huge favor and get me
something quick to eat?" You'll probably do it for him because you love
him :-) But if you had a bad day and you're grumpy while you do it,
his thanks shouldn't depend on your level of happiness while doing him
a favor. His thanks should be in proportion to the interruption to your
life he's asking you to make.
But if he came into the bathroom and said you *had* to get out of the
bath and make him something to eat so he could leave, the atmosphere
between you and your feelings towards him would be a whole lot
different.
That's not the best analogy but *if* we turn what we ask our kids to do
around and see that we're more often than not -- *from their point of
view!* -- asking them to do us a big favor, and if we treat what they
do for us as a big huge favor they've done for us -- whether done
happily or not -- then they will respond much better than if we
approach them with attitudes of "you have to do this."
Joyce
> No they don't HAVE to brush their teeth in this or that roomThere's two issues tangled up in that statement.
> at this or that time, but they do need to be brushed twice a day and
> flossed
> once a day.
First it will help to not think in terms of have to but in terms of
helping kids get what they want (and avoid what they don't want.)
Kids don't want cavities! But often there's something in between them
and that goal. And it's rarely "toothbrushing" as a whole. It can be
toothpaste. Or toothbrush. Or -- quite often -- being made to do it.
I eat cereal every morning. But if my husband handed me a bowl of
cereal and hovered over me to make sure I ate it, I'd start associating
a bowl of cereal with being coerced and controlled and I'd be
entertaining thoughts on how to avoid my morning cereal -- though
really I'd be trying to avoid the morning's dose of control.
Parents assume they know what their children's characters are because
they're with them all the time :-) But if the parents control some
aspects of their kids' lives, the parents really only know how their
kids react to control.
If your kids resist the toothbrushing you make them do, you only know
how they react to being *made* to brush their teeth, not how they react
to toothbrushing.
If you let go of control, yes, they will probably not brush!
But, if instead of an atmosphere of "you have no choice", you create an
atmosphere of being their partner who will do whatever she can to help
them, they won't have to avoid brushing teeth in order to feel in
control.
> but they do need to be brushed twice a day and flossedAnd if they skip a day will they get cavities?
> once a day.
Unlike lack of oxygen, lack of brushing and flossing for a day will not
have disastrous results. ;-) In fact a few of weeks while they adjust
to not being made to brush and accept that you're their partner rather
than their controller will not result in cavities.
What you've done is taken a general piece of advice for the broad
population and engraved it in stone as though it were a truth and then
you're chipping at your relationship for something that isn't as dire
as you're telling your children that it is.
What is closer to the truth is brushing teeth twice a day will help
*most* people have fewer cavities. But kids can go for days without
brushing while you help them find ways to make brushing less onerous.
> What I think is necessary is when I have to take the baby to theFirst, there's no way to make him see the world through your eyes and
> doctor and
> I cannot get him to get dressed because they HAVE to wear clothing.
make him do what you want to do willingly and cheerfully.
But you can change the attitude you approach him with and that will
have an affect on his reaction. He may still not want to put on clothes
but he won't be fighting against what he perceives as your need to
control him.
Again it helps to not think in terms of "have to". Turn your thinking
around. You *want* him in clothes so you don't get in trouble. By
putting on clothes when he doesn't want to he's doing you a favor.
Think of it as a *huge* favor you're asking him to do because from his
point of view it is. And thank him for helping you out by letting you
dress him. Thank him for inconveniencing him, for taking him from fun
things and helping you out even if he didn't enjoy the process. Do
something nice for him for helping you out, like ice cream afterwards.
Picture it like this scenario: You've just gotten into the bath for a
long soak. And your husband comes rushing in saying "Honey, I'm really
sorry but I've just had word that I need to leave for the airport in 10
minutes and I have to pack. Would you do me a huge favor and get me
something quick to eat?" You'll probably do it for him because you love
him :-) But if you had a bad day and you're grumpy while you do it,
his thanks shouldn't depend on your level of happiness while doing him
a favor. His thanks should be in proportion to the interruption to your
life he's asking you to make.
But if he came into the bathroom and said you *had* to get out of the
bath and make him something to eat so he could leave, the atmosphere
between you and your feelings towards him would be a whole lot
different.
That's not the best analogy but *if* we turn what we ask our kids to do
around and see that we're more often than not -- *from their point of
view!* -- asking them to do us a big favor, and if we treat what they
do for us as a big huge favor they've done for us -- whether done
happily or not -- then they will respond much better than if we
approach them with attitudes of "you have to do this."
Joyce
Joyce Fetteroll
> We, in my opinion, do not "boss" him around, we ask him nicely toPeople respond from *their* point of view, though. In order to
> do things.
understand why someone is reacting in a certain way and to get a
different response from them, we have to understand why we're coming
across differently than we intend and then alter our approach.
Regardless of how not controlling you think you are, he can only
respond to what he feels is your intent not to your actual intent.
If you're asking and the answer can't be no, then it's not a real
question. It's just a confusing way of wording a command. So he's
reacting to being commanded since he knows it isn't a real question.
Your husband might ask "Would you make meat loaf tonight?" and you know
that if for some reason you couldn't that it would be okay.
But what if you knew that if you didn't make meat loaf he'd make you?
No matter how nicely he asked, it wouldn't erase the fact that there
was a threat behind the request and that he had power and control over
your.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/17/2005 4:06:41 AM Mountain Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
you're chipping at your relationship for something that isn't as dire
as you're telling your children that it is.
----------
The brighter the kids, the worse this is. If they figure out ONE thing the
mom is claiming isn't an absolute truth, they'll start to doubt and question
everything the mom says.
It's good to present them with what you believe and why you believe it, and
admit that scientific ideas change over time, but that these days dentists are
saying [whatever]. That also helps them learn how to figure out how to
make decisions based on what they hear (from dentists or moms or magazines or
instructions on the backs of toothbrush packages).
It's not a definite that brushing teeth prevents cavities. There are people
who don't brush who have none, and people who Do brush who have cavities.
There are many other factors.
It IS pretty definite that kids who feel overly controlled will become more
resistent and eventually sneaky and dishonest.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
you're chipping at your relationship for something that isn't as dire
as you're telling your children that it is.
----------
The brighter the kids, the worse this is. If they figure out ONE thing the
mom is claiming isn't an absolute truth, they'll start to doubt and question
everything the mom says.
It's good to present them with what you believe and why you believe it, and
admit that scientific ideas change over time, but that these days dentists are
saying [whatever]. That also helps them learn how to figure out how to
make decisions based on what they hear (from dentists or moms or magazines or
instructions on the backs of toothbrush packages).
It's not a definite that brushing teeth prevents cavities. There are people
who don't brush who have none, and people who Do brush who have cavities.
There are many other factors.
It IS pretty definite that kids who feel overly controlled will become more
resistent and eventually sneaky and dishonest.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/17/2005 4:06:41 AM Mountain Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
Again it helps to not think in terms of "have to". Turn your thinking
around. You *want* him in clothes so you don't get in trouble. By
putting on clothes when he doesn't want to he's doing you a favor.
Think of it as a *huge* favor you're asking him to do because from his
point of view it is.
I made Kirby put clothes on the other day.
He had gone to class in long shorts and flip-flops, even though it was
snowing lightly.
I took Marty for oral surgery at 12:30, got him back at 2:00, all woozy,
eight teeth lighter, and set him up in a recliner in the den, with an ice pack
and blah blah blah... I was stressed.
Kirby's appointment to have his wisdom teeth out was 3:30. He had arrived
home while I was out with Marty. I went and reminded him of time, and went
to get some food for myself. I ate cold food, so the kids (who couldn't eat
because of impending surgery) wouldn't smell it.
Oh. Forgot to say that he light snow had turned to very HEAVY snow, the
oral surgeon is about eight miles away and I was about to turn right around and
go back out in it, wait again for over an hour while one of my children was
anesthesized and dismantled, and AGAIN drive in that slippery, crowded... only
after Kirby's surgery it would be 5:00 and everyone coming home from work.
So I went into Kirby's room when it was time to go and he was still in those
knee-length pants and flip-flops. The snow was four inches deep and DUMPING
alarmingly.
I don't remember the exact words but it had to do with tradition, respect,
what people would think, stupidity, winter, ME, and ended with something like
"PANTS, shoes, socks, just DO IT. NOW!"
He just did it. Then. And nothing else was said, but I seriously doubt
that he was sorry to have some shoes and socks on when he saw how deep the snow
was getting.
It was a stressful day, and his insistence on flip-flops would have been
more stressful for me (and him, too) than my insistence on real shoes and socks
was.
Years ago, pre-kids, I was going to San Francisco for a meeting. Keith had
been there before. I hadn't. He said "take a coat." I said it's July. He
said "it will be cold, take a coat." I grabbed a light zippered sweatshirt.
He took it out of my hand and handed me a corduroy jacket lined in flannel.
Later in the weekend I was wishing it had been a ski jacket instead. It
was wet and REALLY COLD. So I trust Keith more now, not less. And I want it
to be that way with my kids too. But on Monday this week, I had no time or
patience to explain carefully to Kirby, because it was time to brave the
slippery streets again right then.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
Again it helps to not think in terms of "have to". Turn your thinking
around. You *want* him in clothes so you don't get in trouble. By
putting on clothes when he doesn't want to he's doing you a favor.
Think of it as a *huge* favor you're asking him to do because from his
point of view it is.
I made Kirby put clothes on the other day.
He had gone to class in long shorts and flip-flops, even though it was
snowing lightly.
I took Marty for oral surgery at 12:30, got him back at 2:00, all woozy,
eight teeth lighter, and set him up in a recliner in the den, with an ice pack
and blah blah blah... I was stressed.
Kirby's appointment to have his wisdom teeth out was 3:30. He had arrived
home while I was out with Marty. I went and reminded him of time, and went
to get some food for myself. I ate cold food, so the kids (who couldn't eat
because of impending surgery) wouldn't smell it.
Oh. Forgot to say that he light snow had turned to very HEAVY snow, the
oral surgeon is about eight miles away and I was about to turn right around and
go back out in it, wait again for over an hour while one of my children was
anesthesized and dismantled, and AGAIN drive in that slippery, crowded... only
after Kirby's surgery it would be 5:00 and everyone coming home from work.
So I went into Kirby's room when it was time to go and he was still in those
knee-length pants and flip-flops. The snow was four inches deep and DUMPING
alarmingly.
I don't remember the exact words but it had to do with tradition, respect,
what people would think, stupidity, winter, ME, and ended with something like
"PANTS, shoes, socks, just DO IT. NOW!"
He just did it. Then. And nothing else was said, but I seriously doubt
that he was sorry to have some shoes and socks on when he saw how deep the snow
was getting.
It was a stressful day, and his insistence on flip-flops would have been
more stressful for me (and him, too) than my insistence on real shoes and socks
was.
Years ago, pre-kids, I was going to San Francisco for a meeting. Keith had
been there before. I hadn't. He said "take a coat." I said it's July. He
said "it will be cold, take a coat." I grabbed a light zippered sweatshirt.
He took it out of my hand and handed me a corduroy jacket lined in flannel.
Later in the weekend I was wishing it had been a ski jacket instead. It
was wet and REALLY COLD. So I trust Keith more now, not less. And I want it
to be that way with my kids too. But on Monday this week, I had no time or
patience to explain carefully to Kirby, because it was time to brave the
slippery streets again right then.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
wanting a bath, I'll suggest I sponge bath him. We'll put on a TV
show or movie he likes and I'll get some warm water in a container,
a warm soapy washcloth, and a towel. I start at his head, just
running the clean, damp washcloth over his scalp, then work my way
down to his feet - that's usually really grubby because he prefers
to be shoeless if at all possible, next step up is sandals and only
when it is at the coldest, snowiest, soggiest will he wear shoes.
Not only does he get clean but we also get to spend some one on one,
physical contact, positive, time together.
>Another option is sponge baths. When DS is grubby/sweaty and not
> If they were in an aversion
> phase, we'd just wait for extreme dirt or need, or set up backyard
>water-play
> (wading pool, sprinkler, washing toy dishes on the patio or in the
>tub).
> Sandra
wanting a bath, I'll suggest I sponge bath him. We'll put on a TV
show or movie he likes and I'll get some warm water in a container,
a warm soapy washcloth, and a towel. I start at his head, just
running the clean, damp washcloth over his scalp, then work my way
down to his feet - that's usually really grubby because he prefers
to be shoeless if at all possible, next step up is sandals and only
when it is at the coldest, snowiest, soggiest will he wear shoes.
Not only does he get clean but we also get to spend some one on one,
physical contact, positive, time together.