Re: How unschooling works---
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I wrote:
-=-There are other
things too; other elements need to be in place to be made to make it work
really well.-=-
Nichole wrote (well, and it's probably enough, too!):
-=- In a nut-shell or elaborately what are those elements?
-=- * trusting your child to learn what she needs when she needs it
-=- * ability and desire to show your children the world through living a
rich and interesting life
-=- * a deep respect for your child as an individual, regarding her as a
whole human being right now
-=- * ability and desire to learn every day, to try new things, and go new
places, meet new people
-=- What else? I bet you have a post or two on this, Sandra.
-=- Thanks,
-=- Nichole
-----------------------------------------------------
That's a good list. Many years ago I wanted to do a kind of
questionnaire/checklist/aptitude test so people could come to it in a self-service way and see
if they were suited to unschooling. When I brought it up, people (even peole
who really liked me, and maybe especially those) said "Don't!" Their
thinking was to help everyone on the assumption they all had the potential to be
unschoolers.
Sometimes I think they're right, and sometimes I don't think so.
If we were offering chat and resources about owning small yachts, might we
not eliminate some people up front by asking if they lived anywhere near an
ocean, how they were with motion sickness, whether they could swim, how was their
spatial reasoning, and did they have millions of dollars. LOTS of people own
small yachts. It's not an impossible goal/hobby/pursuit. It takes a lot of
time to make it worth it. Jackie Kennedy needed to actually want to go
sailing with her family, and to plan, organize it and get it together on the morning
of the trip. Maybe they had others to clean up afterwards, but there were
still sunburns and other booboos to deal with when they got home. The Kennedies
knew others who could advise them on what to buy and where to dock it and all
that.
Is unschooling at least as involved as yacht ownership? It can be a heck of
a lot cheaper, but it takes way more time and has a greater demand of self
reflection and relationship building.
Maybe it would have been better to make it a secret back room instead of all
upfront where we get criticized and misunderstood. Maybe it should have only
been for people who got almost there on their own, and then asked for the last
secret info. Probably not, but the level of skepticism and insult and
nonsense does get old sometimes. The reason it's not flaring up so much on this
list anymore is that we keep new members on moderation until it seems they are
sincere and calm and non-reactionary. We've elminated the "what kind of
neglectful insanity are you promoting?" fringe. Sometimes, maybe, that makes the
list too bland. And just as with real life, some people like football and some
people like ice dance. So either way, some readers wish the list were some
*other* level of excitement or depth or spirituality or practicality. Lately
some of the feedback from people who've left the list as been that they wanted
a 'how to,' and more directly useful information to get started, but we were
just talking about why.
"Why" is pretty big.
Maybe add that to the list, although at first it seems useless:
-=- * ability and desire to figure out WHY unschooling is important and can
work
Sandra
-=-There are other
things too; other elements need to be in place to be made to make it work
really well.-=-
Nichole wrote (well, and it's probably enough, too!):
-=- In a nut-shell or elaborately what are those elements?
-=- * trusting your child to learn what she needs when she needs it
-=- * ability and desire to show your children the world through living a
rich and interesting life
-=- * a deep respect for your child as an individual, regarding her as a
whole human being right now
-=- * ability and desire to learn every day, to try new things, and go new
places, meet new people
-=- What else? I bet you have a post or two on this, Sandra.
-=- Thanks,
-=- Nichole
-----------------------------------------------------
That's a good list. Many years ago I wanted to do a kind of
questionnaire/checklist/aptitude test so people could come to it in a self-service way and see
if they were suited to unschooling. When I brought it up, people (even peole
who really liked me, and maybe especially those) said "Don't!" Their
thinking was to help everyone on the assumption they all had the potential to be
unschoolers.
Sometimes I think they're right, and sometimes I don't think so.
If we were offering chat and resources about owning small yachts, might we
not eliminate some people up front by asking if they lived anywhere near an
ocean, how they were with motion sickness, whether they could swim, how was their
spatial reasoning, and did they have millions of dollars. LOTS of people own
small yachts. It's not an impossible goal/hobby/pursuit. It takes a lot of
time to make it worth it. Jackie Kennedy needed to actually want to go
sailing with her family, and to plan, organize it and get it together on the morning
of the trip. Maybe they had others to clean up afterwards, but there were
still sunburns and other booboos to deal with when they got home. The Kennedies
knew others who could advise them on what to buy and where to dock it and all
that.
Is unschooling at least as involved as yacht ownership? It can be a heck of
a lot cheaper, but it takes way more time and has a greater demand of self
reflection and relationship building.
Maybe it would have been better to make it a secret back room instead of all
upfront where we get criticized and misunderstood. Maybe it should have only
been for people who got almost there on their own, and then asked for the last
secret info. Probably not, but the level of skepticism and insult and
nonsense does get old sometimes. The reason it's not flaring up so much on this
list anymore is that we keep new members on moderation until it seems they are
sincere and calm and non-reactionary. We've elminated the "what kind of
neglectful insanity are you promoting?" fringe. Sometimes, maybe, that makes the
list too bland. And just as with real life, some people like football and some
people like ice dance. So either way, some readers wish the list were some
*other* level of excitement or depth or spirituality or practicality. Lately
some of the feedback from people who've left the list as been that they wanted
a 'how to,' and more directly useful information to get started, but we were
just talking about why.
"Why" is pretty big.
Maybe add that to the list, although at first it seems useless:
-=- * ability and desire to figure out WHY unschooling is important and can
work
Sandra
Jennifer Fischetto
> Lately some of the feedback from people who've left the list as been thatHi, I am new to this group and have been reading for a couple of weeks.
> they wanted
> a 'how to,' and more directly useful information to get started, but we
> were
> just talking about why.
>
After this post I will probably go back to lurking for some time. :)
When I signed on and began reading I came in the middle of posts that had
been continuing for a bit and may have misunderstood their premise. As a
newbie to the list AND to homeschooling and unschooling, I was perplexed by
what sounded like some bashing of parents. I have been wondering if I should
even remain a member but thought to stick it out longer to get a better
feel.
The comments, from this latest response by Sandra, have helped me realize
that I am still somewhat clueless, lol, but starting to understand why some
of the posts have sounded harsh. I am a single mother of two (daughter is 10
and son is 3). I just withdrew my daughter from school two weeks ago and we
are trying to "gain our footing". I am not skeptical of the *why*. It makes
perfect sense that a child (anyone) can learn better when they are
interested than forced. I remember leaving the PS system believing I was
stupid and then 10 years later I was/am soaking up as much information as I
can, about various topics.
Certain areas of our lives have always been "unschooled"...no limits to TV,
the computer, movies, computer games, playing in general. Recently I began a
process called Overcoming Overeating (I have an eating disorder) and learned
about eating what I want, when I want and how much I want. Never to diet
again, as diets do not work. This is something my children do now too. The
rest of our lives have been pretty structured though. There has been a lot
of yelling, threatening and power struggles. I have stopped the threatening
and working on the yelling (still happens occasionally as I learn to stop),
therefore the power struggles are pretty non inexistent. Suffice, this is
all to say that I don't come to unschooling having practiced it all our
lives.
I have been skeptical as to whether or not *I* can unschool. Specifically
because of severely limited funds (hopefully not for to long) and using the
public transit system....more so the money. When I first started researching
about homeschooling I continually read about families and their exciting
adventures...day trips, vacations, etc. It led me to believe that these type
of outings were the gist of homeschooling. I hope that is not correct. I
have recently read about typical days of unschooling on Sandra's site and
they have given me a sense of calm.
I am still not confident yet but hopeful and will continue to look within
myself, question my "capabilities" and willingness and "review" our life for
signs of richness (being a bit silly there). A "how to" list was exactly
what I would love. As to *why*....well why not? It makes perfect sense to
this newbie. :)
Now I will return to my lurking mode. Thanks for listening.
Jenn
diana jenner
Jennifer Fischetto wrote:
fears and the fuel they provide for me to overcome them is exactly the
reason I *can* unschool. Deschooling is a far longer process than
unschooling -- not for the kids, but for the parents: we've got far more
school-think to overcome, to avoid passing down to the next generation.
got a zoo membership and children's museum membership for my birthday --
I did the leg work to find reciprocal memberships for FAR less than our
local fees (got both for less than one), filled out the paperwork and
handed them over to the first person to ask what I wanted <bg> The kids
are in an art class because I asked for a scholarship, Hannah will use
yet another scholarship to play basketball this summer. Our homeschool
group has a membership card with great discounts around town, including
$2/game bowling w/free shoe rental and 10% off at our favorite art
supply store. Never underestimate the value of the free, already doing
it anyway-type of adventures awaiting you, like the grocery store, the
bank, the cool downtown stores you've yet to visit. <bg> We do eat lots
of peanut butter sandwiches on our vacations; seeing the ocean, the
Grammas, a hotel full of unschoolers -- all worth the sacrifice it takes
to get there :)
sort... but that would be just one more thing to feel pressured about
"am I doing unschooing the prescribed way?" syndrome :) The glory of
unschooling is the absence of "how-to s" and "have-to s" and the
embracing of the "why nots," saying YES to what brings joy to our own
individual peoples and ourselves by providing it :) Confidence and
success are measured very differently over here <g> and you'll find both
in the most unusual, uncommon places - JOY being the benchmark :) where
else will you find that kind of reinforcement???
I hope this helps quell a few fears! Welcome to the adventure :) diana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I have been skeptical as to whether or not *I* can unschool.My fears are generally about ME and my own abilities... I imagine these
>
fears and the fuel they provide for me to overcome them is exactly the
reason I *can* unschool. Deschooling is a far longer process than
unschooling -- not for the kids, but for the parents: we've got far more
school-think to overcome, to avoid passing down to the next generation.
>SpecificallyWe live on a meager budget and still find funds for the priorities. I
>because of severely limited funds (hopefully not for to long) and using the
>public transit system....more so the money. When I first started researching
>about homeschooling I continually read about families and their exciting
>adventures...day trips, vacations, etc. It led me to believe that these type
>of outings were the gist of homeschooling. I hope that is not correct. I
>have recently read about typical days of unschooling on Sandra's site and
>they have given me a sense of calm.
>
>
got a zoo membership and children's museum membership for my birthday --
I did the leg work to find reciprocal memberships for FAR less than our
local fees (got both for less than one), filled out the paperwork and
handed them over to the first person to ask what I wanted <bg> The kids
are in an art class because I asked for a scholarship, Hannah will use
yet another scholarship to play basketball this summer. Our homeschool
group has a membership card with great discounts around town, including
$2/game bowling w/free shoe rental and 10% off at our favorite art
supply store. Never underestimate the value of the free, already doing
it anyway-type of adventures awaiting you, like the grocery store, the
bank, the cool downtown stores you've yet to visit. <bg> We do eat lots
of peanut butter sandwiches on our vacations; seeing the ocean, the
Grammas, a hotel full of unschoolers -- all worth the sacrifice it takes
to get there :)
>I am still not confident yet but hopeful and will continue to look withinThere were times when I, too, would have loved a checklist of some
>myself, question my "capabilities" and willingness and "review" our life for
>signs of richness (being a bit silly there). A "how to" list was exactly
>what I would love. As to *why*....well why not? It makes perfect sense to
>this newbie. :)
>
>
sort... but that would be just one more thing to feel pressured about
"am I doing unschooing the prescribed way?" syndrome :) The glory of
unschooling is the absence of "how-to s" and "have-to s" and the
embracing of the "why nots," saying YES to what brings joy to our own
individual peoples and ourselves by providing it :) Confidence and
success are measured very differently over here <g> and you'll find both
in the most unusual, uncommon places - JOY being the benchmark :) where
else will you find that kind of reinforcement???
I hope this helps quell a few fears! Welcome to the adventure :) diana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]