how unschooling works
[email protected]
The negativity of the "Not how unscholing works" subject line was bothering
me. <g>
Found this this morning, a couple of older things I saved:
JUST ADD LIGHT AND STIR
If you want unschooling to work just
because you stick the curriculum under the couch,
it won't! Get the world swirling around you
(first) and your children (second) so there are
sounds, sights, smells, tastes and textures for
them to process and build their internal model of
the universe from. GET MOVING, mentally and
physically.
THIS WAS THE PARENT WRITING of the article on disposable checklists, but this
isn’t that, and it has some unmined good stuff for later writings.
Just Add Light and Stir
In a message dated 2/1/02 7:10:56 AM, dawn@... writes:
<< How did you get comfortable with not racing around and
"providing" entertainment for your children. >>
Gradually!
I still provide entertainment for my children (and they provide things for
the rest of the family too, because (shhh...) they think that's just how
people in families are! They don't associate it with unschooling directly.
<< He's only interested in
standing them up and already I'm thinking of chess tournaments>>
Find a diagram of the board set up and leave it available. He can copy that
pattern or not, but he'll realize there is a pattern.
And it's cool when the chess pieces on the chart don't look exactly like his
own.
Maybe check out a book on chess pieces or history of game boards. Not on
chess strategy at all, but on gaming history so he can see the history of the
pieces and the different forms. Or if you're near a games shop, wander by
and look at different chess sets on display. it will be like a teeny chess
museum.
It doesn't have to be done at any one moment, just incorporate his interest
in chess pieces into your daily considerations until the time when he knows
more about it than you do (unless you're a whiz, and then sorry for the
assumption that you weren't).
One way for moms who love to checklist their days to provide without managing
is to go afield of verbal presentation. Go through a list of the senses.
And if each day you try to provide something interesting to taste, touch,
hear, see and smell, his day will be more full than flat. Too many families
stop at things to hear and see. (Because school stops there, I guess.)
But you don't have to do this until he's 17. You can do it until you're
confident that he's filled with experiences to cross-reference at his own
leisure (in dreams, in fantasies, in future incidents which remind him of
those, etc.) and you feel satisfied that you're not a slacker.
If just "the five sense" seems a lame checklist and you want four dimensional
instead of three, maybe each day work into conversation something about the
past and something about the future. (I can hardly imagine a day without
those coming up naturally in my own family, but in case you're not really
talkative or something, it's something for the checklist.) If it comes up
naturally in conversation you could say "They didnt' even have chainsaws
until... [whenever little gasoline engines were common, or whatever the
seminal technological feature is] and would have had to do all this with a
hand saw, or an axe. (That's if you cut firewood with a chainsaw, not if
you're sitting around working a jigsaw puzzle of tiger cubs in the forest.)
Or you could say "How long do you think we will have these dishes? When too
many are broken, what kind should we get next?" (if you have a girl with
those sorts of interests). Various kinds of mind-casting conversations into
the past (personal past or technological past or cultural past or planetary
past) or into the future (tomorrow, next year, next century) help kids build
their internal model of the universe. I know I've used that phrase half a
dozen times talking about unschooling, but I think it's one of the coolest
ideas.
At school, there is a model of knowledge which they're hoping to insert into
each child's head. And it has things that are dumb and arbitrary. Like that
the history of England is way more important than the history of China (in
English speaking countries, there's a lot of justification for that, but
still, let me run my imperfect little thang here), and that there are some
authors EVERYBODY has to know, and others that are TOTALLY optional,
marginal, don't even brag if you've read them. And that some historical
cultures are hugely more important than others. And some science is FACT and
some is marginal "whatever," not appearing in this book.
School kids don't know the world is a million times bigger than school's
version of it.
Unschooled kids are also making a model of the universe inside them, but
they're making it their own way, and they're not valuing the school-bits over
the bits that their model has which are unique to them and their own personal
interests and experiences.
That's the main reason I think that an unschooler's checklist should look
more like the five senses and past/future than like science, history,
language, math, maybe-music-art-physical education. Because that model is
prescriptive and limiting. And the other is descriptive and unlimited.
(Maybe I just wrote the core of a column for HEM. I'm saving this one.)
Sandra
=======
The column that became is here:
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
As often happens, though, the original writing had a liveliness of its own
that didn't transfer.
Sandra
me. <g>
Found this this morning, a couple of older things I saved:
JUST ADD LIGHT AND STIR
If you want unschooling to work just
because you stick the curriculum under the couch,
it won't! Get the world swirling around you
(first) and your children (second) so there are
sounds, sights, smells, tastes and textures for
them to process and build their internal model of
the universe from. GET MOVING, mentally and
physically.
THIS WAS THE PARENT WRITING of the article on disposable checklists, but this
isn’t that, and it has some unmined good stuff for later writings.
Just Add Light and Stir
In a message dated 2/1/02 7:10:56 AM, dawn@... writes:
<< How did you get comfortable with not racing around and
"providing" entertainment for your children. >>
Gradually!
I still provide entertainment for my children (and they provide things for
the rest of the family too, because (shhh...) they think that's just how
people in families are! They don't associate it with unschooling directly.
<< He's only interested in
standing them up and already I'm thinking of chess tournaments>>
Find a diagram of the board set up and leave it available. He can copy that
pattern or not, but he'll realize there is a pattern.
And it's cool when the chess pieces on the chart don't look exactly like his
own.
Maybe check out a book on chess pieces or history of game boards. Not on
chess strategy at all, but on gaming history so he can see the history of the
pieces and the different forms. Or if you're near a games shop, wander by
and look at different chess sets on display. it will be like a teeny chess
museum.
It doesn't have to be done at any one moment, just incorporate his interest
in chess pieces into your daily considerations until the time when he knows
more about it than you do (unless you're a whiz, and then sorry for the
assumption that you weren't).
One way for moms who love to checklist their days to provide without managing
is to go afield of verbal presentation. Go through a list of the senses.
And if each day you try to provide something interesting to taste, touch,
hear, see and smell, his day will be more full than flat. Too many families
stop at things to hear and see. (Because school stops there, I guess.)
But you don't have to do this until he's 17. You can do it until you're
confident that he's filled with experiences to cross-reference at his own
leisure (in dreams, in fantasies, in future incidents which remind him of
those, etc.) and you feel satisfied that you're not a slacker.
If just "the five sense" seems a lame checklist and you want four dimensional
instead of three, maybe each day work into conversation something about the
past and something about the future. (I can hardly imagine a day without
those coming up naturally in my own family, but in case you're not really
talkative or something, it's something for the checklist.) If it comes up
naturally in conversation you could say "They didnt' even have chainsaws
until... [whenever little gasoline engines were common, or whatever the
seminal technological feature is] and would have had to do all this with a
hand saw, or an axe. (That's if you cut firewood with a chainsaw, not if
you're sitting around working a jigsaw puzzle of tiger cubs in the forest.)
Or you could say "How long do you think we will have these dishes? When too
many are broken, what kind should we get next?" (if you have a girl with
those sorts of interests). Various kinds of mind-casting conversations into
the past (personal past or technological past or cultural past or planetary
past) or into the future (tomorrow, next year, next century) help kids build
their internal model of the universe. I know I've used that phrase half a
dozen times talking about unschooling, but I think it's one of the coolest
ideas.
At school, there is a model of knowledge which they're hoping to insert into
each child's head. And it has things that are dumb and arbitrary. Like that
the history of England is way more important than the history of China (in
English speaking countries, there's a lot of justification for that, but
still, let me run my imperfect little thang here), and that there are some
authors EVERYBODY has to know, and others that are TOTALLY optional,
marginal, don't even brag if you've read them. And that some historical
cultures are hugely more important than others. And some science is FACT and
some is marginal "whatever," not appearing in this book.
School kids don't know the world is a million times bigger than school's
version of it.
Unschooled kids are also making a model of the universe inside them, but
they're making it their own way, and they're not valuing the school-bits over
the bits that their model has which are unique to them and their own personal
interests and experiences.
That's the main reason I think that an unschooler's checklist should look
more like the five senses and past/future than like science, history,
language, math, maybe-music-art-physical education. Because that model is
prescriptive and limiting. And the other is descriptive and unlimited.
(Maybe I just wrote the core of a column for HEM. I'm saving this one.)
Sandra
=======
The column that became is here:
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
As often happens, though, the original writing had a liveliness of its own
that didn't transfer.
Sandra
[email protected]
-=-=-=-=-You have never read any long-years-experienced unschooler say that the schools should be abolished and everyone should unschool. The thousands of hours of writing that's been put in here, unschooling.com and various other places has stressed that it takes a LOT of change and awareness on the part of the parents to do this. And it takes deschooling on the part of the child and of the parents. It's not easy. It's not something just anyone can do. And half-assed isn't good enough. -=-=-=-=-=-
Well, *I* have said that schools should be abolished and all kids should unschool! <g>
But I also know that it's absolutely impossible---for the reasons Sandra gave above.
It's hard. Hard work. I do believe that *all* children are capable of unschooling. It's the parents that are the problem. Parents, society, and the huge, raging locomotive that is public education.
Won't happen. Can't happen.
*Should* happen? Uh huh! <g>
"You can say I'm a dreamer...." <bwg>
~Kelly, also the realist!
Well, *I* have said that schools should be abolished and all kids should unschool! <g>
But I also know that it's absolutely impossible---for the reasons Sandra gave above.
It's hard. Hard work. I do believe that *all* children are capable of unschooling. It's the parents that are the problem. Parents, society, and the huge, raging locomotive that is public education.
Won't happen. Can't happen.
*Should* happen? Uh huh! <g>
"You can say I'm a dreamer...." <bwg>
~Kelly, also the realist!
[email protected]
-=-=-=-If I say "Hey, I'm sure it will be fabulous", he makes a skeptical face. And I think it's reasonable for him to be skeptical. It's not clear to me how to get past that. When to try to sway him and when to fully accept his decision without argument.-=-=-=-
I'd be careful of actually *saying*, "Hey, I'm sure it will be fabulous!"
I might say, "Yeah---it might be really lame. Hard to know if we don't go...." <g> "If it's fabulous, we can stay and know that we made the right decision and we won't regret having missed it. If it IS lame, we can leave and pick up sushi."
Generally mine won't miss the possibility for sushi! <G>
But mine have had years of learning to trust when I suggest something that might be fabulous. And they can also trust that we'll leave if it IS lame.
Trust. Trust. Trust!
~Kelly
I'd be careful of actually *saying*, "Hey, I'm sure it will be fabulous!"
I might say, "Yeah---it might be really lame. Hard to know if we don't go...." <g> "If it's fabulous, we can stay and know that we made the right decision and we won't regret having missed it. If it IS lame, we can leave and pick up sushi."
Generally mine won't miss the possibility for sushi! <G>
But mine have had years of learning to trust when I suggest something that might be fabulous. And they can also trust that we'll leave if it IS lame.
Trust. Trust. Trust!
~Kelly
Kim
--- " It's the parents that are the problem. Parents, society, and the
huge, raging locomotive that is public education. "
homeschooling/unschooling(less than a year), but each week that
passes, I am so glad of the decision to pull my 14 yo son out of school!
Just this week alone I have heard these statements during
conversations with a cousin and a close friend: "A GED is not worth
the paper it is printed on." - huh? why is that??? And, "If your son
doesn't learn how to force himself to get through classes he doesn't
like now, then how will he be successful in college? Again..huh?
Obviously, both of these people are suffering from public education
brainwashing. They both don't really get why I've decided to
homeschool, even though I've tried to explain. And they both have high
school-aged kids as well, and believe the experience is great. I feel
sad for them, because this unschooling path that we are on has made
such a difference in my previously sullen, negative son. He is still
deschooling, but is slowly becoming more like his old playful, funny
self that he used to be before school damaged his spirit.
And on the subject of public high school...has anyone seen the movie
"Mean Girls?" Someone told me it was kind of funny, so I checked it
out and couldn't believe what I saw!
The main character lived in Africa with her parents and was
homeschooled her whole life - until her parents returned to the US to
teach at a university, and put their daughter in a public HS. Things
went downhill from there! Everything that we hate about public HS,
she had to deal with: cliques, pretending to be dumb to get a guy's
attention, not wearing the "right" clothes, the "us against the
adults" mentality, pressure to party, the mean, manipulative behavior
of peers, and on and on. It was horrible - and she was miserable and
confused, but her parents kept her there. And the worst part was, she
went thru all of this angst, just to discover that she wanted to be
the person she was before she started public school!
What torture for her - and for me to watch (but of course I couldn't
turn it off - I needed to see how things were going end!). I didn't
get it- we are supposed to be so happy at the end because she "learned
her lesson" and learned how to be herself again? I think it was
supposed to make HS look like such a character-building time, but in
my opinion, it showed how horrible HS really is, and that the girl's
real character was developed because she had all those previous years
of homeschooling.
Any lingering doubts I still may have had about pulling my son out are
completely gone now! How can that public education experience be
preferable to letting our children find their own path in a more
positive and encouraging environment?!
Just my recent observations... and proof that unschooling has been an
eye-opening experience for me as well.
~Kim
huge, raging locomotive that is public education. "
>Isn't this the truth!! I am still new to
homeschooling/unschooling(less than a year), but each week that
passes, I am so glad of the decision to pull my 14 yo son out of school!
Just this week alone I have heard these statements during
conversations with a cousin and a close friend: "A GED is not worth
the paper it is printed on." - huh? why is that??? And, "If your son
doesn't learn how to force himself to get through classes he doesn't
like now, then how will he be successful in college? Again..huh?
Obviously, both of these people are suffering from public education
brainwashing. They both don't really get why I've decided to
homeschool, even though I've tried to explain. And they both have high
school-aged kids as well, and believe the experience is great. I feel
sad for them, because this unschooling path that we are on has made
such a difference in my previously sullen, negative son. He is still
deschooling, but is slowly becoming more like his old playful, funny
self that he used to be before school damaged his spirit.
And on the subject of public high school...has anyone seen the movie
"Mean Girls?" Someone told me it was kind of funny, so I checked it
out and couldn't believe what I saw!
The main character lived in Africa with her parents and was
homeschooled her whole life - until her parents returned to the US to
teach at a university, and put their daughter in a public HS. Things
went downhill from there! Everything that we hate about public HS,
she had to deal with: cliques, pretending to be dumb to get a guy's
attention, not wearing the "right" clothes, the "us against the
adults" mentality, pressure to party, the mean, manipulative behavior
of peers, and on and on. It was horrible - and she was miserable and
confused, but her parents kept her there. And the worst part was, she
went thru all of this angst, just to discover that she wanted to be
the person she was before she started public school!
What torture for her - and for me to watch (but of course I couldn't
turn it off - I needed to see how things were going end!). I didn't
get it- we are supposed to be so happy at the end because she "learned
her lesson" and learned how to be herself again? I think it was
supposed to make HS look like such a character-building time, but in
my opinion, it showed how horrible HS really is, and that the girl's
real character was developed because she had all those previous years
of homeschooling.
Any lingering doubts I still may have had about pulling my son out are
completely gone now! How can that public education experience be
preferable to letting our children find their own path in a more
positive and encouraging environment?!
Just my recent observations... and proof that unschooling has been an
eye-opening experience for me as well.
~Kim
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/9/2005 10:22:52 AM Mountain Standard Time,
knkmoran@... writes:
-=-Just this week alone I have heard these statements during
conversations with a cousin and a close friend: "A GED is not worth
the paper it is printed on." - huh? why is that??? -=-
-----------------------
And a high school diploma is worth.... how much? <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
knkmoran@... writes:
-=-Just this week alone I have heard these statements during
conversations with a cousin and a close friend: "A GED is not worth
the paper it is printed on." - huh? why is that??? -=-
-----------------------
And a high school diploma is worth.... how much? <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Judy Anderson
I have just become a volunteer tutor for GED classes here in my town. There
is a professional teacher who is also volunteering and she told me that two
thirds of high school graduates would fail a GED. And after looking at the
prep book and what they have to know, I was horrified at the expectations
(or lack thereof) that public school students are supposed to meet. One of
my sutdents has a diploma from Haiti where she grew up, but she feels she
has something to "prove", so she is studying to take the GED in English.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: how unschooling works
In a message dated 3/9/2005 10:22:52 AM Mountain Standard Time,
knkmoran@... writes:
-=-Just this week alone I have heard these statements during
conversations with a cousin and a close friend: "A GED is not worth
the paper it is printed on." - huh? why is that??? -=-
-----------------------
And a high school diploma is worth.... how much? <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is a professional teacher who is also volunteering and she told me that two
thirds of high school graduates would fail a GED. And after looking at the
prep book and what they have to know, I was horrified at the expectations
(or lack thereof) that public school students are supposed to meet. One of
my sutdents has a diploma from Haiti where she grew up, but she feels she
has something to "prove", so she is studying to take the GED in English.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: how unschooling works
In a message dated 3/9/2005 10:22:52 AM Mountain Standard Time,
knkmoran@... writes:
-=-Just this week alone I have heard these statements during
conversations with a cousin and a close friend: "A GED is not worth
the paper it is printed on." - huh? why is that??? -=-
-----------------------
And a high school diploma is worth.... how much? <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-=-=-=-=-I was perplexed by what sounded like some bashing of parents. I have been wondering if I should even remain a member but thought to stick it out longer to get a better -=-=-
Jenn, it's a really good idea to hang around and read a lot to get the feel of a list (any list). There are a lot of different personalities here. Sometimes we come across as real bitches, but if you were to go back a read the archives for a few months, you could get a feel for who we really are.
Sometimes someone comes in and disrupts the list to the nth degree, and we all band together to keep the list true to its goal and purpose. Often we come across as difficult and a bit...ummmm....even nasty.
I used to have a file, "Shit on Kelly/compliments" in which I stored all the hate mail and fan mail I received. More fan mail than hate mail, but---boy, were there some doozies! <g> One (and she knows who she is! <g>) wrote me BOTH! After she got to "know" me virtually, she realized I wasn't so bad! <bwg>
Don't let the strong personalities scare you: these are the cream of the crop in understanding and explaining unschooling that you'll find anywhere!
As for "how to"---well, it looks different in each and every family. We (my family) DO spend a lot of money on travel, because that's what we, as a family, value. But there are plenty of folks who spend big money on electronics or books or art or critters or ---BACK HOES (or whatever that was up for discussion a few weeks ago! ???Road grader???) <g>
In my opinion, your most valuable unschooling "tool" is completely and totally FREE. It's YOU and your voice. Talk with your kids. Ask questions. Answer questions. Ask their opinions. Create with them. BE with them. Do WITH them.
It's cool that you get the "why"---most people have more trouble with that! The "how"---well, you have to figure that out for your own family---and each child may be different----and different from YOU! The "how" varies so much that it's hard----no! *impossible* to pinpoint.
The more you do it, the easier it gets. I promise! <g> And reading about how others do it can help a lot. And don't think you must provide something every minute of every day. Solitude and down time and daydreaming and veging out are all acceptable and important!
Stick around: you may find you *like* us!
~Kelly
Jenn, it's a really good idea to hang around and read a lot to get the feel of a list (any list). There are a lot of different personalities here. Sometimes we come across as real bitches, but if you were to go back a read the archives for a few months, you could get a feel for who we really are.
Sometimes someone comes in and disrupts the list to the nth degree, and we all band together to keep the list true to its goal and purpose. Often we come across as difficult and a bit...ummmm....even nasty.
I used to have a file, "Shit on Kelly/compliments" in which I stored all the hate mail and fan mail I received. More fan mail than hate mail, but---boy, were there some doozies! <g> One (and she knows who she is! <g>) wrote me BOTH! After she got to "know" me virtually, she realized I wasn't so bad! <bwg>
Don't let the strong personalities scare you: these are the cream of the crop in understanding and explaining unschooling that you'll find anywhere!
As for "how to"---well, it looks different in each and every family. We (my family) DO spend a lot of money on travel, because that's what we, as a family, value. But there are plenty of folks who spend big money on electronics or books or art or critters or ---BACK HOES (or whatever that was up for discussion a few weeks ago! ???Road grader???) <g>
In my opinion, your most valuable unschooling "tool" is completely and totally FREE. It's YOU and your voice. Talk with your kids. Ask questions. Answer questions. Ask their opinions. Create with them. BE with them. Do WITH them.
It's cool that you get the "why"---most people have more trouble with that! The "how"---well, you have to figure that out for your own family---and each child may be different----and different from YOU! The "how" varies so much that it's hard----no! *impossible* to pinpoint.
The more you do it, the easier it gets. I promise! <g> And reading about how others do it can help a lot. And don't think you must provide something every minute of every day. Solitude and down time and daydreaming and veging out are all acceptable and important!
Stick around: you may find you *like* us!
~Kelly