Re: embarrassment & karate WAS: Re: Manipulation
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/20/2005 3:48:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, "kayb85" <sheran@...> writes:
[What if he] Refuses to even talk to the karate instructor if I manage to get him in there? I won't want to call and apologize to the karate instructor that we have to cancel the appointment. I think he WANTS to do karate but I think there is a very real chance that he'll get way too nervous to be able to do it. Is it manipulation to try to coax him to do something that I think he really wants to do? Is it manipulation to coax him to do something to save myself the embarassment of being rude and cancelling an appointment that *I* think we should've kept?
<<<<<<
First off, I think *all* parents should get over the embarrassment issue. Children aren't *trying* to embarrass you. They're just being who they are (unlike many parents who seem to go out of their ways to be huge embarrassments to their teenagers).
*YOU* may feel embarrassed, but your child didn't *cause* it. It's your *own* reaction. Leave the kid out of it!
Embarrassment is something *we* projest onto ourselves---NOT something someone else projects onto us.
End my little embarrassment rant!
As for the karate possiblities: I would telephone the instructor and let him know *in advance* that the child who is interested in the class has a hard time with transitions, that he might not feel comfortable going---and that he might decide to not show up. I would advise him on all this stuff before even making the first appointment. If the instructor blows you off, find another instructor---one who is willing to deal with your child's sensitive issues. If he's willing to work with him, you child will probably sense it and *want* to go.
Same thing with playgroups: let them know in advance that your kids *may* not want to go at the last minute. Plan out options *IN ADVANCE* so that everyone knows what to expect. Insisting on going to the "anti-technology house" and engaging in trickery because of being too embarrassed to be honest is creepy. To everyone.
~Kelly
[What if he] Refuses to even talk to the karate instructor if I manage to get him in there? I won't want to call and apologize to the karate instructor that we have to cancel the appointment. I think he WANTS to do karate but I think there is a very real chance that he'll get way too nervous to be able to do it. Is it manipulation to try to coax him to do something that I think he really wants to do? Is it manipulation to coax him to do something to save myself the embarassment of being rude and cancelling an appointment that *I* think we should've kept?
<<<<<<
First off, I think *all* parents should get over the embarrassment issue. Children aren't *trying* to embarrass you. They're just being who they are (unlike many parents who seem to go out of their ways to be huge embarrassments to their teenagers).
*YOU* may feel embarrassed, but your child didn't *cause* it. It's your *own* reaction. Leave the kid out of it!
Embarrassment is something *we* projest onto ourselves---NOT something someone else projects onto us.
End my little embarrassment rant!
As for the karate possiblities: I would telephone the instructor and let him know *in advance* that the child who is interested in the class has a hard time with transitions, that he might not feel comfortable going---and that he might decide to not show up. I would advise him on all this stuff before even making the first appointment. If the instructor blows you off, find another instructor---one who is willing to deal with your child's sensitive issues. If he's willing to work with him, you child will probably sense it and *want* to go.
Same thing with playgroups: let them know in advance that your kids *may* not want to go at the last minute. Plan out options *IN ADVANCE* so that everyone knows what to expect. Insisting on going to the "anti-technology house" and engaging in trickery because of being too embarrassed to be honest is creepy. To everyone.
~Kelly
[email protected]
-=- Is it manipulation to try to coax him to do something that I think he really wants to do? Is it manipulation to coax him to do something to save myself the embarassment of being rude and cancelling an appointment that *I* think we should've kept? -=-
There are different overlays you could put on this, and which one might help just depends on what you want, what he wants, what your ultimate aims are, and like that.
If he's said, basically, "Coach, I want to get better at this," and you're his coach, you're justified in coaching him past his comfort level to help him achieve his stated goal. If you're his coach and he's "signed up for the team," you could think of it that way.
Another way to look at it is that maybe he's really NOT ready, and a karate teacher won't want a kid who's not really there. It won't really help the class or the kid for him to be there against his will, if that's the case. And adulthood isn't too late to take karate. If he wants to learn later, he can. And karate isn't necessary to life. It can be very cool for those who are into it.
Don't obsess about the one point of going or not going. Look at the realities all around it. It's not the door to the future. It's one of countless doors to other moments.
Sandra
There are different overlays you could put on this, and which one might help just depends on what you want, what he wants, what your ultimate aims are, and like that.
If he's said, basically, "Coach, I want to get better at this," and you're his coach, you're justified in coaching him past his comfort level to help him achieve his stated goal. If you're his coach and he's "signed up for the team," you could think of it that way.
Another way to look at it is that maybe he's really NOT ready, and a karate teacher won't want a kid who's not really there. It won't really help the class or the kid for him to be there against his will, if that's the case. And adulthood isn't too late to take karate. If he wants to learn later, he can. And karate isn't necessary to life. It can be very cool for those who are into it.
Don't obsess about the one point of going or not going. Look at the realities all around it. It's not the door to the future. It's one of countless doors to other moments.
Sandra
[email protected]
-=-Insisting on going to the "anti-technology house" and engaging in trickery because of being too embarrassed to be honest is creepy. To everyone.
-=-
Creepy to lots, but somewhat understandable to some.
Even if we had a big democratic vote, we couldn't declare what's creepy to everyone. We could say "51% found this creepier than the other 49% did" maybe. <g>
-=-Same thing with playgroups: let them know in advance that your kids *may* not want to go at the last minute. Plan out options *IN ADVANCE* so that everyone knows what to expect.-=-
If you say "We'll try to be there," or "I'll see if I can get them there," then no promises are made. When I was the one organizing the playgroup (for years) we HAD to be there, and it was more pressure than was fun, but it also helped getting the kids out of the house, to know that they DID want to claim the best tables and make sure there wasn't glass where the toddlers would play. It was a responsibility that perked them up lots of times, but eventually they got tired of it.
As to alternate plans so that everyone knows what to expect, it seems it could be overplanning and MORE frustration and negotiation. Plans made the night before can be all different when the morning comes and one kid's puking and the freeway's closed and someone left something plastic on the stove and it's melted and stuck. Flexibility itself can be a plan, and it's good for families to learn to walk lightly on the surface of the world instead of claiming a spot and expecting it not to change. Things change.
I think parents should be honest with kids, and kind to them, and also persuade them not to be huge inconveniences to others around them on a little whim. It helps kids be honest with parents and others, if they're expected to say WHY they don't want to go, instead of having the power to cancel a family's whole day with a light poof of "I think I'm not in the mood."
And maybe they don't know why and can't be articulate, and in those cases the parents do best when they can gauge the depth of the objection, and the emotion of the resistence. If it's light and small, a hot dog might help. If it's a deep fear or an oncoming flu or a need to hole up at home, that should be seen and honored.
Sandra
-=-
Creepy to lots, but somewhat understandable to some.
Even if we had a big democratic vote, we couldn't declare what's creepy to everyone. We could say "51% found this creepier than the other 49% did" maybe. <g>
-=-Same thing with playgroups: let them know in advance that your kids *may* not want to go at the last minute. Plan out options *IN ADVANCE* so that everyone knows what to expect.-=-
If you say "We'll try to be there," or "I'll see if I can get them there," then no promises are made. When I was the one organizing the playgroup (for years) we HAD to be there, and it was more pressure than was fun, but it also helped getting the kids out of the house, to know that they DID want to claim the best tables and make sure there wasn't glass where the toddlers would play. It was a responsibility that perked them up lots of times, but eventually they got tired of it.
As to alternate plans so that everyone knows what to expect, it seems it could be overplanning and MORE frustration and negotiation. Plans made the night before can be all different when the morning comes and one kid's puking and the freeway's closed and someone left something plastic on the stove and it's melted and stuck. Flexibility itself can be a plan, and it's good for families to learn to walk lightly on the surface of the world instead of claiming a spot and expecting it not to change. Things change.
I think parents should be honest with kids, and kind to them, and also persuade them not to be huge inconveniences to others around them on a little whim. It helps kids be honest with parents and others, if they're expected to say WHY they don't want to go, instead of having the power to cancel a family's whole day with a light poof of "I think I'm not in the mood."
And maybe they don't know why and can't be articulate, and in those cases the parents do best when they can gauge the depth of the objection, and the emotion of the resistence. If it's light and small, a hot dog might help. If it's a deep fear or an oncoming flu or a need to hole up at home, that should be seen and honored.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/21/2005 12:05:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandraDodd@... writes:
~Kelly
><G> Not creepy to the entire world---creepy to those involved. The mom, the kid, the other mom, the other kid.
>-=-Insisting on going to the "anti-technology house" and engaging in trickery because of being too embarrassed to be honest is creepy. To everyone.
>-=-
>
>Creepy to lots, but somewhat understandable to some.
>Even if we had a big democratic vote, we couldn't declare what's creepy to everyone. We could say "51% found this creepier than the other 49% did" maybe. <g> <<<
~Kelly
Deborah Harper
<<<<And maybe they don't know why and can't be articulate, and in those cases the parents do best when they can gauge the depth of the objection, and the emotion of the resistence. If it's light and small, a hot dog might help. If it's a deep fear or an oncoming flu or a need to hole up at home, that should be seen and honored.>>>
This is something I have been thinking about but haven't been able to get time to post. I think it is reasonable to talk to the child about all the factors involved and to see if they might really like to go once having broken through the surface of some minor resistance. But if the child really persists in not wanting to go, and says he would go to get the hot dog but then wants to come straight home, I would have to respect that. We never know what is lurking beneath the surface with them, and sometimes it might be the flu or something else we might feel horrible about if discovered after forcible playdating, and so I think we will always do well to really listen to our children and honor their needs and wishes about such things, just like in everything else, like food and TV.
I also agree about getting over the embarrassment thing. I mean, so what if we're embarrassed? What message do I send my child if I choose to force her to go because I don't want to be embarrassed? I think it says I care more about what other people think than about her. I personally think that anyone we would be playdating with would understand if my child really strongly wanted to cancel. If they couldn't be understanding about that, then I am not sure why we would be hanging out with them anyway. I think I would ask my child if they would be okay with the other folks coming over to our house, and if so, then invite the other family to come over instead of going over there, if the orginal plan wasn't an option. If this was something that happened often I would talk to my child about the impact on the other people and really ask her if she was sure before making plans again.... along with warning everyone that we only make plans if we can be flexible about it. Our good friends are like this such that their daughter is highly sensitive and intense and is very very easily overwhelmed. When something doesn't feel right to her she gets panicky-like and is clearly miserable. So when she changes her mind about something and doesn't want to come play, we honor that. To force her to come would be a miserable experience for everyone. Instead, we ask her what she would like to do and then leave it to her and my child to decide what they can agree on. Very rarely can they not find something, unless one of them is getting sick.
Deborah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is something I have been thinking about but haven't been able to get time to post. I think it is reasonable to talk to the child about all the factors involved and to see if they might really like to go once having broken through the surface of some minor resistance. But if the child really persists in not wanting to go, and says he would go to get the hot dog but then wants to come straight home, I would have to respect that. We never know what is lurking beneath the surface with them, and sometimes it might be the flu or something else we might feel horrible about if discovered after forcible playdating, and so I think we will always do well to really listen to our children and honor their needs and wishes about such things, just like in everything else, like food and TV.
I also agree about getting over the embarrassment thing. I mean, so what if we're embarrassed? What message do I send my child if I choose to force her to go because I don't want to be embarrassed? I think it says I care more about what other people think than about her. I personally think that anyone we would be playdating with would understand if my child really strongly wanted to cancel. If they couldn't be understanding about that, then I am not sure why we would be hanging out with them anyway. I think I would ask my child if they would be okay with the other folks coming over to our house, and if so, then invite the other family to come over instead of going over there, if the orginal plan wasn't an option. If this was something that happened often I would talk to my child about the impact on the other people and really ask her if she was sure before making plans again.... along with warning everyone that we only make plans if we can be flexible about it. Our good friends are like this such that their daughter is highly sensitive and intense and is very very easily overwhelmed. When something doesn't feel right to her she gets panicky-like and is clearly miserable. So when she changes her mind about something and doesn't want to come play, we honor that. To force her to come would be a miserable experience for everyone. Instead, we ask her what she would like to do and then leave it to her and my child to decide what they can agree on. Very rarely can they not find something, unless one of them is getting sick.
Deborah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
Sheila --
It occurred to me that this is an ongoing situation for you - that you
really want more social life and outside activities than your dh or
kids - and that nudging or pushing or semi-coercing them - to whatever
degree you can (and you've done it beyond your own comfort level,
clearly) is your response to what feels to you like an ongoing problem.
I'm thinking that you might need to recognize that your response could
be counterproductive -- people feeling pressured to do something are
very likely to pull back even more. I wonder what would happen if you
cut back on ANY pressure of any kind to get them out - support their
desire to stay home by focusing your energy entirely on ways to make
your home even MORE comfy and stimulating and happy and wonderful than
it already is. That would be supporting your kids - your "real" kids -
the way they really are.
Get yourself another outlet for your need to "go out." Or just remember
you'll get your chance later, when the kids are older. Give it one year
of absolutely NEVER putting pressure on them of any kind, no matter how
subtle. Figure out what you have to do to live that way - maybe you can
never make a solid play date, maybe you always have to make any date
tentative, depending on how your kids feel when the time comes. So do
that. Support your kids as they are right now.
I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll find that this eases things up
a lot - that eventually they'll become more willing to go when you
explain why you really want to go. BUT - don't do it for that reason -
do it because to do otherwise is to give them the message that there is
something wrong with them - do it because you want them to feel loved
EXACTLY as they are - do it because there is a gap between where you
"wish" they were and where they are (in terms of the amount of time
they want to go out and be involved away from home) and they KNOW they
aren't living up to what you want for them. That's not good.
I even get the sense that you think there is something wrong with them
for being so reticent to go places. You don't want the kids to think
that - so stop it. Support them. Look at THEIR interests and desires
and support them. This is nothing but the very most basic unschooling
advice - applied to your particular situation.
-pam
It occurred to me that this is an ongoing situation for you - that you
really want more social life and outside activities than your dh or
kids - and that nudging or pushing or semi-coercing them - to whatever
degree you can (and you've done it beyond your own comfort level,
clearly) is your response to what feels to you like an ongoing problem.
I'm thinking that you might need to recognize that your response could
be counterproductive -- people feeling pressured to do something are
very likely to pull back even more. I wonder what would happen if you
cut back on ANY pressure of any kind to get them out - support their
desire to stay home by focusing your energy entirely on ways to make
your home even MORE comfy and stimulating and happy and wonderful than
it already is. That would be supporting your kids - your "real" kids -
the way they really are.
Get yourself another outlet for your need to "go out." Or just remember
you'll get your chance later, when the kids are older. Give it one year
of absolutely NEVER putting pressure on them of any kind, no matter how
subtle. Figure out what you have to do to live that way - maybe you can
never make a solid play date, maybe you always have to make any date
tentative, depending on how your kids feel when the time comes. So do
that. Support your kids as they are right now.
I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll find that this eases things up
a lot - that eventually they'll become more willing to go when you
explain why you really want to go. BUT - don't do it for that reason -
do it because to do otherwise is to give them the message that there is
something wrong with them - do it because you want them to feel loved
EXACTLY as they are - do it because there is a gap between where you
"wish" they were and where they are (in terms of the amount of time
they want to go out and be involved away from home) and they KNOW they
aren't living up to what you want for them. That's not good.
I even get the sense that you think there is something wrong with them
for being so reticent to go places. You don't want the kids to think
that - so stop it. Support them. Look at THEIR interests and desires
and support them. This is nothing but the very most basic unschooling
advice - applied to your particular situation.
-pam
Deborah Harper
Such great advice!!!
And have folks over for yourself if your family really isn't comfortable with you leaving them for an hour or so. It sounds like for your kids being home just feels right, like for you, getting out some just feels right. We all have to be okay the way we are. And that includes you too. But you have the ability to wait knowing that your day will come. But if you can manage to get out a bit without dragging them with you, all the better. If not, see how your kids take it when you have someone come over instead. That could meet your extrovert need for outside interaction.
Thank you for sharing your situation. I know that I have stretched and grown through this discussion and I am sure others have too.
Deborah
And have folks over for yourself if your family really isn't comfortable with you leaving them for an hour or so. It sounds like for your kids being home just feels right, like for you, getting out some just feels right. We all have to be okay the way we are. And that includes you too. But you have the ability to wait knowing that your day will come. But if you can manage to get out a bit without dragging them with you, all the better. If not, see how your kids take it when you have someone come over instead. That could meet your extrovert need for outside interaction.
Thank you for sharing your situation. I know that I have stretched and grown through this discussion and I am sure others have too.
Deborah
----- Original Message -----
From: Pam Sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: embarrassment & karate WAS: Re: Manipulation
Sheila --
It occurred to me that this is an ongoing situation for you - that you
really want more social life and outside activities than your dh or
kids - and that nudging or pushing or semi-coercing them - to whatever
degree you can (and you've done it beyond your own comfort level,
clearly) is your response to what feels to you like an ongoing problem.
I'm thinking that you might need to recognize that your response could
be counterproductive -- people feeling pressured to do something are
very likely to pull back even more. I wonder what would happen if you
cut back on ANY pressure of any kind to get them out - support their
desire to stay home by focusing your energy entirely on ways to make
your home even MORE comfy and stimulating and happy and wonderful than
it already is. That would be supporting your kids - your "real" kids -
the way they really are.
Get yourself another outlet for your need to "go out." Or just remember
you'll get your chance later, when the kids are older. Give it one year
of absolutely NEVER putting pressure on them of any kind, no matter how
subtle. Figure out what you have to do to live that way - maybe you can
never make a solid play date, maybe you always have to make any date
tentative, depending on how your kids feel when the time comes. So do
that. Support your kids as they are right now.
I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll find that this eases things up
a lot - that eventually they'll become more willing to go when you
explain why you really want to go. BUT - don't do it for that reason -
do it because to do otherwise is to give them the message that there is
something wrong with them - do it because you want them to feel loved
EXACTLY as they are - do it because there is a gap between where you
"wish" they were and where they are (in terms of the amount of time
they want to go out and be involved away from home) and they KNOW they
aren't living up to what you want for them. That's not good.
I even get the sense that you think there is something wrong with them
for being so reticent to go places. You don't want the kids to think
that - so stop it. Support them. Look at THEIR interests and desires
and support them. This is nothing but the very most basic unschooling
advice - applied to your particular situation.
-pam
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kayb85
I have gotten SO much helpful input on this whole situation, and I
really, truly appreciate it.
What Pam said here sums a lot of it up:
I've been thinking about the hot dog/playdate situation a lot, and I
think what I did was force the youngest/least able to resist family
member to go out and do something social with me. :( That really
stinks that I did that to Luke, but at least I've learned a lot from
that one incident. It's brought to my attention that I need to be
really careful to not get myself in situations like that, and to
always put my kids' needs and feelings above my embarassment or
worries.
out with, and we do go places together sometimes. Once or twice a
month. It's been fun! I think I need to get over feeling guilty
about that. The thing I feel most guilty about is that my kids often
try to talk me out of going, even if their dad's going to be home
with them and will be doing stuff with them.
in awhile a worry will pop up in my head. I'm usually able to quiet
that worry and go back to acting on what I know to be true, but this
time I didn't. It's not usually worry that there's something wrong
with them, but that I've done something to mess them up. I wasn't
social enough when they were babies, or I was too involved with
church stuff when they were babies or I didn't come to unschooling
until my oldest had already had a few years of school at home or...(I
could go on). I've even made the mistake of coming here and
comparing my kids to descriptions of other unschooled kids and then
worrying. I worried during/after the Live and Learn conference
because I think my kids might have been the only ones who had such a
difficult time with it.
Now, I *know* the answer to all that I said is to stop worrying so
much, to trust my kids, and to remember to trust my kids before I do
something stupid like the hotdog/playdate situation again.
Sheila
really, truly appreciate it.
What Pam said here sums a lot of it up:
> It occurred to me that this is an ongoing situation for you - thatyou
> really want more social life and outside activities than your dh orwhatever
> kids - and that nudging or pushing or semi-coercing them - to
> degree you can (and you've done it beyond your own comfort level,problem.
> clearly) is your response to what feels to you like an ongoing
I've been thinking about the hot dog/playdate situation a lot, and I
think what I did was force the youngest/least able to resist family
member to go out and do something social with me. :( That really
stinks that I did that to Luke, but at least I've learned a lot from
that one incident. It's brought to my attention that I need to be
really careful to not get myself in situations like that, and to
always put my kids' needs and feelings above my embarassment or
worries.
> Get yourself another outlet for your need to "go out." Or justremember
> you'll get your chance later, when the kids are older.I've started doing that, actually. I have a friend I like to hang
out with, and we do go places together sometimes. Once or twice a
month. It's been fun! I think I need to get over feeling guilty
about that. The thing I feel most guilty about is that my kids often
try to talk me out of going, even if their dad's going to be home
with them and will be doing stuff with them.
> I'm thinking that you might need to recognize that your responsecould
> be counterproductive -- people feeling pressured to do somethingare
> very likely to pull back even more.Yeah, that very well might be.
> I even get the sense that you think there is something wrong withthem
> for being so reticent to go places. You don't want the kids tothink
> that - so stop it. Support them. Look at THEIR interests anddesires
> and support them. This is nothing but the very most basicunschooling
> advice - applied to your particular situation.I really do *know* that there is nothing wrong with them. Every once
>
in awhile a worry will pop up in my head. I'm usually able to quiet
that worry and go back to acting on what I know to be true, but this
time I didn't. It's not usually worry that there's something wrong
with them, but that I've done something to mess them up. I wasn't
social enough when they were babies, or I was too involved with
church stuff when they were babies or I didn't come to unschooling
until my oldest had already had a few years of school at home or...(I
could go on). I've even made the mistake of coming here and
comparing my kids to descriptions of other unschooled kids and then
worrying. I worried during/after the Live and Learn conference
because I think my kids might have been the only ones who had such a
difficult time with it.
Now, I *know* the answer to all that I said is to stop worrying so
much, to trust my kids, and to remember to trust my kids before I do
something stupid like the hotdog/playdate situation again.
Sheila
kayb85
> First off, I think *all* parents should get over the embarrassmentissue. Children aren't *trying* to embarrass you. They're just being
who they are (unlike many parents who seem to go out of their ways to
be huge embarrassments to their teenagers).
Definitely something I need to work on.
I think you're right. I think a lot of parents end up forcing their
kids to do stuff they normally wouldn't force them to do simply
because they don't want to be embarassed.
> As for the karate possiblities: I would telephone the instructorand let him know *in advance* that the child who is interested in the
class has a hard time with transitions, that he might not feel
comfortable going---and that he might decide to not show up. I would
advise him on all this stuff before even making the first
appointment. If the instructor blows you off, find another instructor-
--one who is willing to deal with your child's sensitive issues. If
he's willing to work with him, you child will probably sense it and
*want* to go.
I found a tae kwan do instructor in the phone book that says he
offers private lessons. Matt said that sounds good, but he'd need me
to stay and watch. I'll take your advice and tell him about Matt
having a hard time with transitions. And I'm totally okay if Matt
checks this out and decides against it.
Sheila
Pam Sorooshian
<http://www.geocities.com/unschoolgrad/writing.html>
This is something written by a mostly-unschooled girl who is now in her
20's. I met her at the HSC conference when she tracked me down after
somebody told her I would be able to help her understand a math concept
in which she was interested. I really enjoyed talking to her and enjoy
her website.
This particular piece of writing talks about what she gained by being
allowed NOT to write.
-pam
This is something written by a mostly-unschooled girl who is now in her
20's. I met her at the HSC conference when she tracked me down after
somebody told her I would be able to help her understand a math concept
in which she was interested. I really enjoyed talking to her and enjoy
her website.
This particular piece of writing talks about what she gained by being
allowed NOT to write.
-pam
Angela S
<<<I worried during/after the Live and Learn conference
because I think my kids might have been the only ones who had such a
difficult time with it. >>>
What sort of difficult time did they have? Difficulty warming up to others
during a large conference? Difficulty transitioning into a room full of
people? Difficulty interacting with people they didn't know well?
Difficulty leaving the safety of their room? If that is what you meant, you
were not alone. Not only was it difficult for my children, but I heard
other people talking on different lists that it was difficult for some of
their children too. But that is normal for some personality types.
I knew when we went that we would all have to step outside our comfort zone
by attending the conference. It takes my girls a long time to warm up to
people enough to feel comfortable around them. They did meet one new friend
there though and that made them feel much more at ease. (And it made my life
easier too!)
It really is just a personality difference though. We are all introverts in
this family and we are all happy having one or two close friends and that's
it. The only getting out we've done since getting a horse in October is to
go to the one friend's house that we all love (weekly or so and they come
here a couple times a week) (I am great friends with the mom and the girls
are great friends with her dd and they love horses too!.), go to homes of
family members (occasionally, maybe monthly) and family events (holidays),
and go to the barn. (3 times a day!) We are all happiest when we are with
our horse and our horse friends. It drives us all nuts to have to even go
to the grocery store. (but the tack store is fine!) For us, life is good
just the way it is.
All I am trying to say is that all these personality difference are normal
for some people. Your kids are fine. It sounds like you just need to find
a way to balance your need to get out with their need to stay in. The kids
have only one childhood and whatever you can do to make it a positive
experience will benefit them today and in the long run. It sounds like you
have it pretty much figured out. But don't worry about them in the social
sense. It's o.k. to be a homebody.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
because I think my kids might have been the only ones who had such a
difficult time with it. >>>
What sort of difficult time did they have? Difficulty warming up to others
during a large conference? Difficulty transitioning into a room full of
people? Difficulty interacting with people they didn't know well?
Difficulty leaving the safety of their room? If that is what you meant, you
were not alone. Not only was it difficult for my children, but I heard
other people talking on different lists that it was difficult for some of
their children too. But that is normal for some personality types.
I knew when we went that we would all have to step outside our comfort zone
by attending the conference. It takes my girls a long time to warm up to
people enough to feel comfortable around them. They did meet one new friend
there though and that made them feel much more at ease. (And it made my life
easier too!)
It really is just a personality difference though. We are all introverts in
this family and we are all happy having one or two close friends and that's
it. The only getting out we've done since getting a horse in October is to
go to the one friend's house that we all love (weekly or so and they come
here a couple times a week) (I am great friends with the mom and the girls
are great friends with her dd and they love horses too!.), go to homes of
family members (occasionally, maybe monthly) and family events (holidays),
and go to the barn. (3 times a day!) We are all happiest when we are with
our horse and our horse friends. It drives us all nuts to have to even go
to the grocery store. (but the tack store is fine!) For us, life is good
just the way it is.
All I am trying to say is that all these personality difference are normal
for some people. Your kids are fine. It sounds like you just need to find
a way to balance your need to get out with their need to stay in. The kids
have only one childhood and whatever you can do to make it a positive
experience will benefit them today and in the long run. It sounds like you
have it pretty much figured out. But don't worry about them in the social
sense. It's o.k. to be a homebody.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/21/05 8:49:44 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< The thing I feel most guilty about is that my kids often
try to talk me out of going, even if their dad's going to be home
with them and will be doing stuff with them. >>
Put it clearly on the calendar. Mention it a few times. The last grocery
store run before then, say "Is there something special you want for Tuesday
while I'm at the movies?"
Don't say "Is it okay with you if I go?"
If they start to talk you out of it, don't blame them. Don't say "If you
were willing to go out, I wouldn't need this." Just say "I like to go out of the
house more than you do!"
AND... When they get used to you letting them have their way, they should
(theoretically, and maybe) be more willing to let you have your way. If the
family pattern has been "no means wheedle," then this can happen:
Mom, stay home.
No, I want to go.
Please please please...
or
But Mo--om, I really WANT you to stay home.
And if that sounds like the same kinds of pressure and arguments you've given
them, take it as a spiritual lesson (i.e. suck it up).
-=-I worried during/after the Live and Learn conference
because I think my kids might have been the only ones who had such a
difficult time with it. -=-
Don't take them if they'd rather stay home. Find exciting relatives with
kids to leave them with maybe, or can they be with their dad at some other fun
thing? Camping?
Go to the conference without them.
Sandra
Sandra
<< The thing I feel most guilty about is that my kids often
try to talk me out of going, even if their dad's going to be home
with them and will be doing stuff with them. >>
Put it clearly on the calendar. Mention it a few times. The last grocery
store run before then, say "Is there something special you want for Tuesday
while I'm at the movies?"
Don't say "Is it okay with you if I go?"
If they start to talk you out of it, don't blame them. Don't say "If you
were willing to go out, I wouldn't need this." Just say "I like to go out of the
house more than you do!"
AND... When they get used to you letting them have their way, they should
(theoretically, and maybe) be more willing to let you have your way. If the
family pattern has been "no means wheedle," then this can happen:
Mom, stay home.
No, I want to go.
Please please please...
or
But Mo--om, I really WANT you to stay home.
And if that sounds like the same kinds of pressure and arguments you've given
them, take it as a spiritual lesson (i.e. suck it up).
-=-I worried during/after the Live and Learn conference
because I think my kids might have been the only ones who had such a
difficult time with it. -=-
Don't take them if they'd rather stay home. Find exciting relatives with
kids to leave them with maybe, or can they be with their dad at some other fun
thing? Camping?
Go to the conference without them.
Sandra
Sandra
kayb85
> All I am trying to say is that all these personality difference arenormal
> for some people. Your kids are fine. It sounds like you just needto find
> a way to balance your need to get out with their need to stay in.The kids
> have only one childhood and whatever you can do to make it apositive
> experience will benefit them today and in the long run. It soundslike you
> have it pretty much figured out. But don't worry about them in thesocial
> sense. It's o.k. to be a homebody.Thanks. :)
The funny thing is that I'm not really an extrovert either. I'm a
definite introvert who just likes to go out a little bit more than my
kids. I'm definitely a "go out one day, need the next day or two to
recover" kind of person. I do like that day out more often than my
kids, but not so much more often that it's impossible for me to do.
As I think about this, I can think of countless times as a kid where
I was pushed/guilted into going somewhere, playing with someone, or
trying something new. I remember hearing, "What's the matter with
you that you don't want to play with those kids".
I clearly remember being made to feel like there was something wrong
with me because my mom was embarassed that I didn't do something. I
remember once, when I went to a rollerskating event with people from
my church. I skated around the edge of the rink a few times (badly,
lol--I don't have very good coordination) and then just chose to hang
out at the rink without rollerskating anymore. An adult figured
there must be something wrong that I wasn't skating, and he tried to
get me to go out into the rink. I politely said no many, many times
but he just kept after me to go out and try. When he dropped me off,
he told my mom that he tried to get me to go out and skate more but
that I wouldn't. My mom was embarassed, and afterwards kept on me
about why I wouldn't let him take me out to rollerskate.
I remember how awful I felt then, feeling like there must be
something wrong with me because I hadn't wanted to rollerskate with
that guy. I can remember that feeling anytime I'm tempted to make my
kids do something because *I* feel embarassed.
Sheila
homebody_momma
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
My 7yo ds has always made books, even at two years old, he'd draw
pictures, and either dictate to me or make his own "writing" to tell
the story. (the one I remember the most was a few pages of us at
the grocery store, each page a different step of shopping...at the
end of the book he wrote the letters "DN" meaning "the end"...I
loved that!)
Anyway, when he started first grade, we had meet the teacher day.
She told us one of her favorite things to do was to teach the kids
how to write stories. Her method included a story web, where they
write their ideas, and go on from there...sloppy copies, good print,
illustration, and eventually publishing (transferring all this into
a hard cover "real" book, very exciting). Well, they start this at
school, I get a phone call Nick wanted to do the first step at home,
he was having a hard time "getting his thoughts together", they
thought he'd do better at home. Then another conversation about how
he wants to illustrate, but that's not the step they are on, and how
he's just not cooperating with them during writing time, he's not
focused enough. We had been struggling with this writing project
until the day he left school (last week). He actually got his
progress report that Monday (and I'm so happy to be able to
say...and believe...that the report doesn't matter, but it is
relevant to what I'm getting at) and his progress report showed
improvement in everything, except writing. The teachers are
concerned and say he needs help in this area.
I know he doesn't...or at least he didn't until now! After reading
this article, I am hoping so hard he won't have lasting impressions
from this project. Poor kid. I'm so glad I DID take them out now,
instead of finishing out the year. I'm saving this article, so I
can reread it later if I have any fears or doubts as time goes on.
He doesn't need help getting his thoughts together, they just come
after the pictures....
Thanks again for the support and encouragement.
Jill in PA
ds7, dd5.5, ds2.5, ds3m
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
> <http://www.geocities.com/unschoolgrad/writing.html>I read this, amazed. And it couldn't have come at a better time.
My 7yo ds has always made books, even at two years old, he'd draw
pictures, and either dictate to me or make his own "writing" to tell
the story. (the one I remember the most was a few pages of us at
the grocery store, each page a different step of shopping...at the
end of the book he wrote the letters "DN" meaning "the end"...I
loved that!)
Anyway, when he started first grade, we had meet the teacher day.
She told us one of her favorite things to do was to teach the kids
how to write stories. Her method included a story web, where they
write their ideas, and go on from there...sloppy copies, good print,
illustration, and eventually publishing (transferring all this into
a hard cover "real" book, very exciting). Well, they start this at
school, I get a phone call Nick wanted to do the first step at home,
he was having a hard time "getting his thoughts together", they
thought he'd do better at home. Then another conversation about how
he wants to illustrate, but that's not the step they are on, and how
he's just not cooperating with them during writing time, he's not
focused enough. We had been struggling with this writing project
until the day he left school (last week). He actually got his
progress report that Monday (and I'm so happy to be able to
say...and believe...that the report doesn't matter, but it is
relevant to what I'm getting at) and his progress report showed
improvement in everything, except writing. The teachers are
concerned and say he needs help in this area.
I know he doesn't...or at least he didn't until now! After reading
this article, I am hoping so hard he won't have lasting impressions
from this project. Poor kid. I'm so glad I DID take them out now,
instead of finishing out the year. I'm saving this article, so I
can reread it later if I have any fears or doubts as time goes on.
He doesn't need help getting his thoughts together, they just come
after the pictures....
Thanks again for the support and encouragement.
Jill in PA
ds7, dd5.5, ds2.5, ds3m