[email protected]

We went to a local High school for a MOIS (Michigan Occupational
Investigation) It is only offered through school Id... anyway they let us go to their
Library to take the test... a test that has similar test
available on the Internet. for free but we went with the 4 H and thought it
might add more
anyway we entered the school and my son was wearing a zipper sweat shirt
with a hood. We were in the building about 20 sec when some lady walked by and
said to him we don't allow hats in this school... he looked at her and
nodded.... she brushed her head and said take it off... again he looked at her and
nodded... acknowledging her and started to walk down the hall...she reached
out and grabbed his arm and said I mean you... he looked at me. I shrugged I
really didn't know what she was talking about... I looked at him and he had
his hood on. I said I think she wants you to take off your hood. so he did.
We continued down the hall.... keep in mind we weren't sure where we were
going and were looking for the office at this time.... and we live in Northern
Michigan where it is darn cold out. The next person we ran into said We
don't allow zipped coats in this school.... okay now this is just ridiculous but
being the polite boy he is he un zippers his sweat shirt... at this time I
lean over and stage whisper so this women could hear... Next thing you know
they will want you to turn your coat inside out.... it had a skull like thing on
it... he leans back and says then I am leaving this joint and waiting in
the car....

i should have left at this point but it was a 4H thing and I felt like being
polite and my kids being the nice people they are were willing to put up
with this....

so we get to the computers and the councilor sets us up.... first she is
taking them step by step until she realizes they can run a computer with out her
help. Well then a buzzer goes off that just about makes my daughter jump
out of her chair.... she whips around and says to me "what was that?/?" I said
"I think that was the signal that class is done". "They have to be told
when a subject is done?" she says. I reply "Well yeah they have to go to their
next class"... ah the logic of children... :"they couldn't figure that out
by themselves" she says. so she returns to the computer and about 5 minutes
later it rings again.... she turns and says "so whats that? class begins?"
"yep" "how stupid you have to be told when to leave and you can't figure out
when to be in the next class?" I tried to explain and before I finished she
says so you have to finish before you may be done and start something else
with a 5 minute break? uh yeah... so when do you eat or pee.... ah in that 5
minute but you probably aren't allowed to eat until Lunch at this time the
principal of the school comes in and is eager to tell us all about classes we
can take here.... and My independent daughter says "Why would I want to do
that?" He starts telling her all the reasons why and she looks him straight in
the eye and says " You have a bell to tell me when I am not supposed to be
interested any more... a bell to tell me when to use the bathroom and if I am
cold I can't zip up my coat.... what would entice me to be here?" " Well the
experience to learn" he says... Heaven help her she began to laugh and
couldn't stop. Needless to say we then walked out and both my kids looked at me and
said no way are we ever going to a place like that.

So from the woman that worries about everything... two hours at a High
showed that the right decision has been made... I don't think my daughter will
ever say again that she thinks that going to school would be fun.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Faith Pickell

Thank you for sharing! I needed a laugh this morning. You must feel
very proud you have such bright children that know a BAD thing when
they see it! My 13 yr old son NEVER wants to go to school after having
spent time there thru 4th grade. Three years later he still doesn't
like the thought of anything having to do with the word "learn". He
doesn't want to learn about anything, which makes it difficult to log
any hours. I feel very sad for him.

I don't know that I would have been so calm as you if a total stranger
grabbed my son's arm. I probably would have opened my big mouth and
have gotten us all in trouble! : )

Faith








On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 11:22 PM, DDecoeur@... wrote:

>
> We went to a local High school for a MOIS (Michigan Occupational
> Investigation) It is only offered through school Id... anyway they
> let us go to their
> Library to take the test... a test that has similar test
> available on the Internet. for free but we went with the 4 H and
> thought it
> might add more
> anyway we entered the school and my son was wearing a zipper sweat
> shirt
> with a hood. We were in the building about 20 sec when some lady
> walked by and
> said to him we don't allow hats in this school... he looked at her and
> nodded.... she brushed her head and said take it off... again he
> looked at her and
> nodded... acknowledging her and started to walk down the hall...she
> reached
> out and grabbed his arm and said I mean you... he looked at me. I
> shrugged I
> really didn't know what she was talking about... I looked at him and
> he had
> his hood on. I said I think she wants you to take off your hood. so
> he did.
> We continued down the hall.... keep in mind we weren't sure where we
> were
> going and were looking for the office at this time.... and we live in
> Northern
> Michigan where it is darn cold out. The next person we ran into said
> We
> don't allow zipped coats in this school.... okay now this is just
> ridiculous but
> being the polite boy he is he un zippers his sweat shirt... at this
> time I
> lean over and stage whisper so this women could hear... Next thing
> you know
> they will want you to turn your coat inside out.... it had a skull
> like thing on
> it... he leans back and says then I am leaving this joint and
> waiting in
> the car....
>
> i should have left at this point but it was a 4H thing and I felt like
> being
> polite and my kids being the nice people they are were willing to
> put up
> with this....
>
> so we get to the computers and the councilor sets us up.... first she
> is
> taking them step by step until she realizes they can run a computer
> with out her
> help. Well then a buzzer goes off that just about makes my daughter
> jump
> out of her chair.... she whips around and says to me "what was
> that?/?" I said
> "I think that was the signal that class is done". "They have to be
> told
> when a subject is done?" she says. I reply "Well yeah they have to
> go to their
> next class"... ah the logic of children... :"they couldn't figure
> that out
> by themselves" she says. so she returns to the computer and about 5
> minutes
> later it rings again.... she turns and says "so whats that? class
> begins?"
> "yep" "how stupid you have to be told when to leave and you can't
> figure out
> when to be in the next class?" I tried to explain and before I
> finished she
> says so you have to finish before you may be done and start something
> else
> with a 5 minute break? uh yeah... so when do you eat or pee.... ah
> in that 5
> minute but you probably aren't allowed to eat until Lunch at this
> time the
> principal of the school comes in and is eager to tell us all about
> classes we
> can take here.... and My independent daughter says "Why would I want
> to do
> that?" He starts telling her all the reasons why and she looks him
> straight in
> the eye and says " You have a bell to tell me when I am not supposed
> to be
> interested any more... a bell to tell me when to use the bathroom and
> if I am
> cold I can't zip up my coat.... what would entice me to be here?" "
> Well the
> experience to learn" he says... Heaven help her she began to laugh and
> couldn't stop. Needless to say we then walked out and both my kids
> looked at me and
> said no way are we ever going to a place like that.
>
> So from the woman that worries about everything... two hours at a High
> showed that the right decision has been made... I don't think my
> daughter will
> ever say again that she thinks that going to school would be fun.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/30/2005 10:57:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, Faith Pickell <panda@...> writes:

 My 13 yr old son NEVER wants to go to school after having
>spent time there thru 4th grade.  Three years later he still doesn't
>like the thought of anything having to do with the word "learn".  He
>doesn't want to learn about anything, which makes it difficult to log
>any hours.  I feel very sad for him.<<<<

Faith,

I can't recommend enough that you bring him to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference this October in St Louis. He would be surrounded by teens---many of whom were in his position of hating to learn. Others have always been unschooled---and he could compare them both! He could listen to the presenters (which intrigued my son, Cameron) as well as hang around the teens and do *fun* things----fun things that *count* as learning. He could see that learning isn't painful----it's what we DO.

Please consider it. Many folks make this their family's vacation. It could make a world of difference to him!

~Kelly

Faith Pickell

Kelly,

We are definitely coming. We live in St. Louis and I was so excited to
hear that it would be here this year! I have 3 little ones at home and
knew I wouldn't make it if the conference was anywhere else. I try to
let him unschool, but he literally wants to do nothing but play Halo 2
or other games. I don't mind but if the state ever showed up to see my
logbook, they might think differently. Some of it I count towards his
1000 hours, but I find I have to give him little nudges to fill in the
hours. It also doesn't help that my husband hasn't quite come to the
unschooling way of thinking and likes to make him do things he doesn't
want to. i.e. chores, reports etc. I plan on bringing the hubby too!

Faith


On Sunday, January 30, 2005, at 10:19 AM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 1/30/2005 10:57:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, Faith
> Pickell <panda@...> writes:
>
>  My 13 yr old son NEVER wants to go to school after having
>> spent time there thru 4th grade.  Three years later he still doesn't
>> like the thought of anything having to do with the word "learn".  He
>> doesn't want to learn about anything, which makes it difficult to log
>> any hours.  I feel very sad for him.<<<<
>
> Faith,
>
> I can't recommend enough that you bring him to the Live and Learn
> Unschooling Conference this October in St Louis. He would be
> surrounded by teens---many of whom were in his position of hating to
> learn. Others have always been unschooled---and he could compare them
> both! He could listen to the presenters (which intrigued my son,
> Cameron) as well as hang around the teens and do *fun* things----fun
> things that *count* as learning. He could see that learning isn't
> painful----it's what we DO.
>
> Please consider it. Many folks make this their family's vacation. It
> could make a world of difference to him!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/30/2005 4:01:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, Faith Pickell <panda@...> writes:

>
>Kelly,
>
>We are definitely coming.  We live in St. Louis and I was so excited to
>hear that it would be here this year!  I have 3 little ones at home and
>knew I wouldn't make it if the conference was anywhere else.<<<<<

Good. I'm glad you'll be coming. I'm sorry: I recognize who you are now, but I tend to just write and write and write and don't always notice whom I'm writing to! <g>

I also try not to miss a chance to plug the conference! <g>

 >>>>>>I try to
>let him unschool, but he literally wants to do nothing but play Halo 2
>or other games. I don't mind but if the state ever showed up to see my
>logbook, they might think differently. <<<<<


Ahh---see, here's part of the problem: You're not seeing his Halo2 game *AS* unschooling! You need to see gaming AS unschooling----and learn how to write un educationese to SHOW the learning that's already taking place.

More importantly, you desperately need to understand that what he's doing IS unschooling! You need to accept Halo2 as unschooling.

 >>>>>Some of it I count towards his
>1000 hours, but I find I have to give him little nudges to fill in the
>hours.  <<<<<

You're inadvertently prolonging the deschooling. Knock it off! He IS unschooling. *YOU* need to give yourself the little nudges to figure out what's "educational" about Halo2!


>>>>>>>>It also doesn't help that my husband hasn't quite come to the
>unschooling way of thinking and likes to make him do things he doesn't
>want to.  i.e. chores, reports etc.  I plan on bringing the hubby too!
<<<<<<


Tell your husband that it's not yet "working" because you haven't given it the time it deserves. You both need to back off and quit expecting it to look like school. It won't. Probably ever. Bur he WILL be learning. What he needs. When he needs it.

I can't stress enough important TRUST is in this whole process. Neither you or your husband is showing *any* trust in your son. CELEBRATE Halo2!!! Have Halo2 parties! <g>

There will be wonderful opportunities for all of you in October---but you can (and need to) start NOW!

~Kelly

Kelli Traaseth

***I try to
let him unschool, but he literally wants to do nothing but play Halo 2
or other games. I don't mind but if the state ever showed up to see my
logbook, they might think differently. *****


Speaking of loving to play Halo 2, :)

You should have seen/heard the conversation that my son(11) had with my father(73). All coming from his knowledge that he acquired from playing Halo and Halo 2. :)

The whole artillery thing and weapons knowledge. Alec, ds, was telling me all about the different guns and vehicles that he uses and asking me questions. Well,, I don't know anything about them. We googled, we researched, I learned a lot, he already knew most of what we found. But I couldn't really answer some of his questions. Really technical ones that were too hard to google. <g>

Christmas was approaching and we were going to be seeing my mom and dad, so I told Alec that he should tell Grandpa about Halo 2 and that he would probably get into talking about the weapons and stuff. That he would probably know the answers to some of his questions.

It was so cool. First Alec was asking my dad if there were certain kinds of machine guns, then certain kinds of tanks, then they got on to the mechanics of machine guns,, I think there were was steam operated ones, if I heard that right. The conversation was very technical and over my head. <g> Also the mechanics of tanks, the hydraulics systems of them. lol

They talked about my dad's time in Korea. My dad's duties,, his training.

It was an amazing connection for grandson and grandpa. They touched on WW1, WW2, and the Korean War. So, Halo 2 can cover your history, science and math requirements. <g>


I can't say how much it means to your child to just support what they are doing. Like Kelly said give a Halo2 party! Equally, I can't say how much they do learn from those games.

Ah, games, if only people would give them the credit they deserve. If my son's head was in a book or if he was researching some biological function of some animal, people wouldn't ask, "how long has he been doing that?" But since its a game, its not quite right that he's doing this so indepthly. I find his passion amazing and incredible.


Faith, its great that you'll be able to come to the conference. Its a life changing event! :)

And there will be lots of Halo loving people there that your son can talk with!









Kelli~

Kiddos~Alec(11), Abbi(10), and Kyra(7)


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Faith Pickell

> ******Ahh---see, here's part of the problem: You're not seeing his
> Halo2 game *AS* unschooling! You need to see gaming AS
> unschooling----and learn how to write un educationese to SHOW the
> learning that's already taking place.
>
>
I know he's unschooling. My problem is writing down in my logbook what
subject it covers. He even says it's not educational after he's played
the game so many times.
>

> ********You're inadvertently prolonging the deschooling. Knock it off!
> He IS unschooling. *YOU* need to give yourself the little nudges to
> figure out what's "educational" about Halo2!
>
I hate the log book! It's a pain in my butt. I've relaxed everything
else in my life-no chores, no bedtimes, no eating issues etc. But,
trying to make sure we have our 1000 hours every year is stressing me
out! It's because I hear the stories about people getting in trouble
for not having an accurate log book.

>
> *******I can't stress enough important TRUST is in this whole process.
> Neither you or your husband is showing *any* trust in your son.
> CELEBRATE Halo2!!! Have Halo2 parties! <g>
>
I do trust him. I don't care if he learns math or grammar or history.
I want him to be happy and carefree and enjoy life to the fullest.
> There will be wonderful opportunities for all of you in October---but
> you can (and need to) start NOW!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/31/2005 11:47:40 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
panda@... writes:

-=-He even says it's not educational after he's played
the game so many times.-=-
"Even"?
Is he much clearer on what learning looks like than you are?

Are you looking for ways to make unschooling work for you, or ways to
justify not doing that?

-=-I hate the log book! It's a pain in my butt. I've relaxed everything
else in my life-no chores, no bedtimes, no eating issues etc. But,
trying to make sure we have our 1000 hours every year is stressing me
out! It's because I hear the stories about people getting in trouble
for not having an accurate log book.

=-

Where are you and where are you hearing the stories?
Unschooling should have come FIRST, and little details about food and chores
a far second.

-=-I do trust him. I don't care if he learns math or grammar or history.
=-

EEEP EEEEEEEP!!!!

You don't trust that math, grammar or history will come from a full life?
Or you're willing to live a life without those things ever coming up?

Maybe you mean you don't care if he formally STUDIES math or grammar or
history, but you used the word "learn." If you're not carefully aware of what
you think and believe, unschooling could elude you.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nellebelle

>>>>He even says it's not educational after he's played the game so many times.>>>>

There's an interesting thought. Are we only "learning" when something is new? If we have figured out all the nuances of a game or a book or a something, is there nothing left to learn from it?

I don't think so.

If a teen is saying something isn't educational, I don't think the family is understanding unschooling. Why is he feeling that an activity *should* be educational?

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Emile Snyder

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 10:38, Faith Pickell wrote:
> I hate the log book! It's a pain in my butt. I've relaxed everything
> else in my life-no chores, no bedtimes, no eating issues etc. But,
> trying to make sure we have our 1000 hours every year is stressing me
> out! It's because I hear the stories about people getting in trouble
> for not having an accurate log book.

Have you considered just lying? It's a thorny thing for me; I don't
know how I would feel in your shoes. But when I was in high school
there was a required health class that was making me miserable. It
spent a lot of time on mental health, and telling us saccharine stuff
about how the family is the center of your being while many of my
friends were going through very abusive home situations. I would leave
the class physically shaking with rage every day. Turned out that you
could be exempted from the class if your parents wrote a letter that
they objected on religious grounds (there was a sex ed component.) So
my agnostic mom just sat down and wrote the "how dare you teach my son
this devil inspired filth" letter and I was right out.

How might your logs ever be checked? Do you feel bound to try to fill
them out in good faith on principle, or because the consequences of
being "caught" are severe? Might be worth thinking about.

-emile

> >
> > *******I can't stress enough important TRUST is in this whole process.
> > Neither you or your husband is showing *any* trust in your son.
> > CELEBRATE Halo2!!! Have Halo2 parties! <g>
> >
> I do trust him. I don't care if he learns math or grammar or history.
> I want him to be happy and carefree and enjoy life to the fullest.
> > There will be wonderful opportunities for all of you in October---but
> > you can (and need to) start NOW!
> >
> > ~Kelly
> >
> >
> >
> > "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Faith Pickell

>
> There's an interesting thought. Are we only "learning" when something
> is new? If we have figured out all the nuances of a game or a book or
> a something, is there nothing left to learn from it?
>
> I don't think so.
>
> If a teen is saying something isn't educational, I don't think the
> family is understanding unschooling. Why is he feeling that an
> activity *should* be educational?
>
> Mary Ellen
> ************************

That's because his still "deschooling" mother asks him at the end of
the day what and if he learned anything so she can log it in her book!
Removing head from butt now. : )

Faith


> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Faith Pickell

That is really cool that your son and dad were able to have that
connection. He talks to me a lot about his games and I just never
thought to log a lot of that stuff down. Thank you for the wake up
call!
He did have a Halo2 party for his birthday and he had a blast. He
wants another one now!

Faith
On Sunday, January 30, 2005, at 08:13 PM, Kelli Traaseth wrote:

>
>
> I can't say how much it means to your child to just support what they
> are doing. Like Kelly said give a Halo2 party! Equally, I can't say
> how much they do learn from those games.
>
> Ah, games, if only people would give them the credit they deserve.
> If my son's head was in a book or if he was researching some
> biological function of some animal, people wouldn't ask, "how long
> has he been doing that?" But since its a game, its not quite right
> that he's doing this so indepthly. I find his passion amazing and
> incredible.
>
>
> Faith, its great that you'll be able to come to the conference. Its
> a life changing event! :)
>
> And there will be lots of Halo loving people there that your son can
> talk with!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kelli~
>
> Kiddos~Alec(11), Abbi(10), and Kyra(7)
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Faith Pickell

> -=-He even says it's not educational after he's played
> the game so many times.-=-
> "Even"?
> Is he much clearer on what learning looks like than you are?
>

No, it's my fault. I'll ask him if he learned anything while playing
his games that day and will ask particulars about certain things and he
will say "no, I've played it so much I didn't really learn anything new
today."

> Are you looking for ways to make unschooling work for you, or ways to
> justify not doing that?
>

No no! I want us to unschool. I know that he can be anything he wants
if I would just let him be.
> Where are you and where are you hearing the stories?
> Unschooling should have come FIRST, and little details about food and
> chores
> a far second.
>
We live in Missouri. We get the Court Report mag from HSLDA and read
the different stories. I'm realizing more everyday that I don't need
to be reading those stories or pay for a membership. After all,
homeschooling is legal here. And your right, unschooling should come
first. I apparently suck at this .


> -=-I do trust him. I don't care if he learns math or grammar or
> history.
> =-
>
> EEEP EEEEEEEP!!!!
>
> You don't trust that math, grammar or history will come from a full
> life?
> Or you're willing to live a life without those things ever coming up?
>
> Maybe you mean you don't care if he formally STUDIES math or grammar or
> history, but you used the word "learn." If you're not carefully aware
> of what
> you think and believe, unschooling could elude you.
>

Yes, I meant formal studies. Oops, have to be more careful with my
words! I do care if he learns. I just want him to be able to do it
HIS way. I know he will get what he needs from just living. Okay
wait. Is "learn" a bad word too just like "school" I'm confused.

Faith


>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Faith Pickell

>
> Have you considered just lying?

No, I don't want to lie about it. I think I just need to be more
creative with it! Plus, that wouldn't be a good thing for my kids to
see.
>

> How might your logs ever be checked? Do you feel bound to try to fill
> them out in good faith on principle, or because the consequences of
> being "caught" are severe? Might be worth thinking about.
>
Our logs would be checked only if we were turned in to the state for
some reason and we ended up in court. So, the chances are slim, but I
don't like to take chances. In MO, you have to "offer" 1000 hours in
the different subjects. I can "offer". Doesn't mean he has to do it!
>>>


>>> Faith



>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Angela S

Faith,

I have a couple of questions for you. Are there any other options besides
logging hours as far as meeting the requirements for homeschooling in your
state? Options that would be less invasive? Also, could you figure out
what subjects the things he does (games) cover and log them without his
input. Is there any reading in Halo 2, any historical stuff, any math? If
there is, you can just put it under all three. How detailed does your log
need to be. Could you just write "covered history from 9 a.m. to 11 a.m."
Are you sure about how detailed you have to be? From what I've read, hslda
is big on scare tactics. It keeps the money coming. But you need to make
sure you know what the law reads exactly, not just how hslda translates it.




Sometimes it's possible to find a sympathetic teacher/reviewer in your state
who supports unschooling and might be willing to sign on the dotted line
without your keeping such detailed records. Some people do realize that
learning happens all the time and not just with a curriculum. Have you
asked on a local list if there are any teacher/reviews available who support
unschooling? If you can find one and find out exactly how much detail
she/he requires, it might take some of the burden off your shoulders.



Angela

* game-enthusiast@....



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> We live in Missouri. We get the Court Report mag from HSLDA and read
> the different stories. I'm realizing more everyday that I don't need
> to be reading those stories or pay for a membership. After all,
> homeschooling is legal here. And your right, unschooling should come
> first. I apparently suck at this .
>
I'm sure you don't, in fact, suck. :)

But HSLDA is in the business of making people scared. If you're not
scared, after all, why would you give them your money?

So don't let them. Stop reading their scare literature. And if you're
not an evangelical Christian, do educate yourself on their politics,
because you won't like them at all. Heck, even if you are an
evangelical Christian, look into the laws they are advocating. They are
seldom in your best interest as an unschooler.

lisa near Chicago

Faith Pickell

I've realized that about HSLDA after so many political e-mails from
them. They aren't getting any more of my money. Plus, I realize that
if I did need their help and they found out I was an unschooler, I'm
pretty sure they wouldn't help anyway.

Faith
On Monday, January 31, 2005, at 04:33 PM, audrey@... wrote:

>
>
>> We live in Missouri. We get the Court Report mag from HSLDA and read
>> the different stories. I'm realizing more everyday that I don't need
>> to be reading those stories or pay for a membership. After all,
>> homeschooling is legal here. And your right, unschooling should come
>> first. I apparently suck at this .
>>
> I'm sure you don't, in fact, suck. :)
>
> But HSLDA is in the business of making people scared. If you're not
> scared, after all, why would you give them your money?
>
> So don't let them. Stop reading their scare literature. And if you're
> not an evangelical Christian, do educate yourself on their politics,
> because you won't like them at all. Heck, even if you are an
> evangelical Christian, look into the laws they are advocating. They are
> seldom in your best interest as an unschooler.
>
> lisa near Chicago
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Pam Sorooshian

On Jan 31, 2005, at 2:07 PM, Faith Pickell wrote:

>>
>> Have you considered just lying?
>
> No, I don't want to lie about it. I think I just need to be more
> creative with it! Plus, that wouldn't be a good thing for my kids to
> see.

You don't have to turn it in to anybody. There is nobody authorized to
see it - you just "maintain" it at your own house. You're sweating way
too much over something that nobody else is ever going to see.

AND - just don't let your kids even know you ARE keeping records - YOU
do it - keep them out of it. Whether you're trying to make it accurate
or completely fabricating it - one way or the other - keep the poor
kids from having to even know it is happening. It isn't good for them.

I wouldn't do it at all, personally. Unless you have some reason to
think that somebody is going to take you to court - you'll never need
it. I might use the unschooling recordkeeping form in the files area
of this list, along with the unschooling course of study (ACME) in the
files area - and maybe a box to throw stuff into if the kids created
anything that might look like a "work sample." All that just casually
and in case I needed to create records for some unexpected reason.

But - I'm a bit of a risk taker and confident in my ability to talk my
way out of problems with educrats.

-pam

Faith Pickell

> *****You don't have to turn it in to anybody. There is nobody
> authorized to
> see it - you just "maintain" it at your own house. You're sweating way
> too much over something that nobody else is ever going to see.
>
You are absolutely right.
> ********AND - just don't let your kids even know you ARE keeping
> records - YOU
> do it - keep them out of it. Whether you're trying to make it accurate
> or completely fabricating it - one way or the other - keep the poor
> kids from having to even know it is happening. It isn't good for them.
>
Well, my 13 yr old knows, but with the next 3 kids I don't even need to
let them know. I have 3 1/2 yr old twin boys and a 4 1/2 month old
girl. Hopefully I will be a seasoned unschooler by the time they are
of official school age.

> ******I wouldn't do it at all, personally. Unless you have some reason
> to
> think that somebody is going to take you to court - you'll never need
> it. I might use the unschooling recordkeeping form in the files area
> of this list, along with the unschooling course of study (ACME) in the
> files area - and maybe a box to throw stuff into if the kids created
> anything that might look like a "work sample." All that just casually
> and in case I needed to create records for some unexpected reason.
>

I'll have to check that out. Thanks Pam

Faith
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/31/2005 3:06:13 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
panda@... writes:

We live in Missouri. We get the Court Report mag from HSLDA and read
the different stories. I'm realizing more everyday that I don't need
to be reading those stories or pay for a membership. After all,
homeschooling is legal here. And your right, unschooling should come
first. I apparently suck at this .


------------

Right. HSLDA will suck the peace out of ANYone's life, and you pay them for
that service.

Don't read any more.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/31/2005 3:06:13 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
panda@... writes:

=\=Yes, I meant formal studies. Oops, have to be more careful with my
words! I do care if he learns. I just want him to be able to do it
HIS way. I know he will get what he needs from just living. Okay
wait. Is "learn" a bad word too just like "school" I'm confused.=\=


It's not about "bad words."
It's about school-based thoughts.

Here:
_http://sandradodd.com/wordswords_ (http://sandradodd.com/wordswords)
_http://sandradodd.com/deschooling_ (http://sandradodd.com/deschooling)

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Faith Pickell

Thanks for the link. I've never heard of that group. Most of the
unschoolers in my group aren't really "unschoolers". Most of them
still make their kids do Math.


Faith


On Tuesday, February 1, 2005, at 12:09 AM, DACunefare@... wrote:

>
> Faith, I suggest asking about recordkeeping on the yahoogroup
> Unschooling-in-the-midwest.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling_in_the_Midwest/?yguid=1123183
>
> Most of the dedicated unschoolers on that list are in Missouri and I'm
> sure
> have dealt with the logging issue!
>
> Deborah, in IL
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

julie w

Emile Snyder wrote:

> Have you considered just lying?

There ya go.
That would be my answer.
Its an unreasonable law and no one may ever see it and your kids would
never know.
Nor would anyone know that you HAD lied if you ever had to produce said
book.
Of course if I had to produce the log I'd just say I lost it......

Julie W (who has no problem lying to "authority" figures and likes
CYA.....a lot)



--
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Faith Pickell

On Tuesday, February 1, 2005, at 10:48 PM, julie w wrote:

>
>
>
> Julie W (who has no problem lying to "authority" figures and likes
> CYA.....a lot)
>

*********

What is CYA if I may ask?

Faith
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

julie w

>
> What is CYA if I may ask?
>
> Faith

Oh.
Cover Your Ass.


>
>



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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005

Nisha

I always thought it stood for Cover Your A$$. LOL
Nisha

--- In [email protected], Faith Pickell
<panda@x> wrote:

> What is CYA if I may ask?
>
> Faith