RE: Curbing undesirable behavior
Shannon Entin
Robyn - thank you for your thoughtful post/reply. I see many similarities
in your Jayn and my son Logan (who just turned 6). He, too, will exhibit
avoidance/denial behavior when something happens. Typically, when I try to
discuss an appropriate behavior he will close his eyes and tell me he is
sleeping. He does not hit other children, only me and his father. And he
can turn his anger on and off so fast it amazes me. He could be lashing out
at me - growling, punching - and then the next second turn to his baby
sister and smile and kiss her. So I see that his behavior is a ploy for
attention. He was the center of attention for nearly 6 years before his
sister came along, so that has a lot to do with it, although he had been
hitting us even before she was born. I see clearly that when he is bored or
frustrated that we can't give him complete attention, the yelling and
hitting begins. But nothing we do seems to curb this behavior. I've tried
"holding" - he will have none of that, practically wrestles me to get away
and he is quite strong. I've tried "punishment" in the sense of putting him
in his room and holding the door closed (we have no locks and he will not
simply stay in if I tell him to) - this just adds fuel to the fire and he
ends up screaming and throwing things. I've tried punishment in the sense
of taking things away (no treats for two days, Gameboy taken away, etc.)
and this does not seem to affect him. He'll tell me (smugly) "I didn't want
to play Gameboy today anyway." I am at a loss for how to stop the hitting,
and I feel I don't have any way of preventing it - there WILL BE times when
he is bored and I can't entertain him. So I am trying now to simply ignore
it and just tell him "You can not hit" and moving away from him. Yes, he
will follow me, but if it's my attention he's after, hopefully he will see
that hitting is not the way to get it. I suppose it will just take time,
like anything else!
"Do or do not. There is no try."
-- Yoda
Shannon Entin, entinfamily@...
Low Carb Living, Scrapbooking & Homeschooling at www.ShannonEntin.com
Family updates at www.TheEntins.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
in your Jayn and my son Logan (who just turned 6). He, too, will exhibit
avoidance/denial behavior when something happens. Typically, when I try to
discuss an appropriate behavior he will close his eyes and tell me he is
sleeping. He does not hit other children, only me and his father. And he
can turn his anger on and off so fast it amazes me. He could be lashing out
at me - growling, punching - and then the next second turn to his baby
sister and smile and kiss her. So I see that his behavior is a ploy for
attention. He was the center of attention for nearly 6 years before his
sister came along, so that has a lot to do with it, although he had been
hitting us even before she was born. I see clearly that when he is bored or
frustrated that we can't give him complete attention, the yelling and
hitting begins. But nothing we do seems to curb this behavior. I've tried
"holding" - he will have none of that, practically wrestles me to get away
and he is quite strong. I've tried "punishment" in the sense of putting him
in his room and holding the door closed (we have no locks and he will not
simply stay in if I tell him to) - this just adds fuel to the fire and he
ends up screaming and throwing things. I've tried punishment in the sense
of taking things away (no treats for two days, Gameboy taken away, etc.)
and this does not seem to affect him. He'll tell me (smugly) "I didn't want
to play Gameboy today anyway." I am at a loss for how to stop the hitting,
and I feel I don't have any way of preventing it - there WILL BE times when
he is bored and I can't entertain him. So I am trying now to simply ignore
it and just tell him "You can not hit" and moving away from him. Yes, he
will follow me, but if it's my attention he's after, hopefully he will see
that hitting is not the way to get it. I suppose it will just take time,
like anything else!
"Do or do not. There is no try."
-- Yoda
Shannon Entin, entinfamily@...
Low Carb Living, Scrapbooking & Homeschooling at www.ShannonEntin.com
Family updates at www.TheEntins.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], Shannon Entin
<entinfamily@d...> wrote:
listening" when we'd try to talk about a problem. It's hard to stay
calm, but I just waited for a minute, gave him time to breathe and
then reminded him of our standard: use gentle words. So please, next
time can you say "I don't want to talk about it now. Can we wait
until later?" Then, of course, I need to respect his request. I also
took it as a sign that talking about what he'd done when he was
really upset was NOT working. Waiting even one minute makes it a lot
easier for him to hear what I have to say.
it, but I absolutely believe there are things you can do to minimize
it happening. You can't change him directly, but your reaction makes
a huge difference. Find calm things to say to acknowledge that he
wants attention and ask him to say it in a different way. Here that
sometimes goes like this: "Gentle words, gentle touch. Looks like you
want to play with me. I'm in the middle of changing Caroline's
diaper, so I can't pick up the engine. Can I make him talk while you
move him for me?"
Adding my negative emotions to the situation just makes it much
worse, I've found with ds. He recently started walking up to 2 y o dd
and hitting her for no apparent reason. I could not stay calm about
it and it kept getting worse. I finally started reacting calmly--but
still reacting, don't get me wrong--this week and there was a big
change pretty quickly. (I also looked for an underlying reason--was
he feeling like he has less power because she's now 2 and has
something to say on most every subject?) It's really hard to stay
calm or appear to stay calm without feeling like you're "doing
nothing" but it just works better!
The "gentle words, gentle touch" phrase came from the author of this
site: http://www.empathic-discipline.com She's got lots of good
advice on reacting to kids without punishing. There's also a Yahoo
group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AP-Discipline
HTH, feel free to email me if you want to talk.
--aj
<entinfamily@d...> wrote:
>He, too, will exhibittry to
> avoidance/denial behavior when something happens. Typically, when I
> discuss an appropriate behavior he will close his eyes and tell mehe is
> sleeping.Ds (4) started covering his ears with his hands and yelling "I'm not
listening" when we'd try to talk about a problem. It's hard to stay
calm, but I just waited for a minute, gave him time to breathe and
then reminded him of our standard: use gentle words. So please, next
time can you say "I don't want to talk about it now. Can we wait
until later?" Then, of course, I need to respect his request. I also
took it as a sign that talking about what he'd done when he was
really upset was NOT working. Waiting even one minute makes it a lot
easier for him to hear what I have to say.
>I am at a loss for how to stop the hitting,times when
> and I feel I don't have any way of preventing it - there WILL BE
> he is bored and I can't entertain him.I think that there are times when, in the moment, you can't prevent
it, but I absolutely believe there are things you can do to minimize
it happening. You can't change him directly, but your reaction makes
a huge difference. Find calm things to say to acknowledge that he
wants attention and ask him to say it in a different way. Here that
sometimes goes like this: "Gentle words, gentle touch. Looks like you
want to play with me. I'm in the middle of changing Caroline's
diaper, so I can't pick up the engine. Can I make him talk while you
move him for me?"
Adding my negative emotions to the situation just makes it much
worse, I've found with ds. He recently started walking up to 2 y o dd
and hitting her for no apparent reason. I could not stay calm about
it and it kept getting worse. I finally started reacting calmly--but
still reacting, don't get me wrong--this week and there was a big
change pretty quickly. (I also looked for an underlying reason--was
he feeling like he has less power because she's now 2 and has
something to say on most every subject?) It's really hard to stay
calm or appear to stay calm without feeling like you're "doing
nothing" but it just works better!
The "gentle words, gentle touch" phrase came from the author of this
site: http://www.empathic-discipline.com She's got lots of good
advice on reacting to kids without punishing. There's also a Yahoo
group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AP-Discipline
HTH, feel free to email me if you want to talk.
--aj
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/2005 9:53:14 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
mamaaj2000@... writes:
-=-Ds (4) started covering his ears with his hands and yelling "I'm not
listening" when we'd try to talk about a problem. It's hard to stay
calm, but I just waited for a minute, gave him time to breathe and
then reminded him of our standard: use gentle words. -=-
It might not be the best plan, but a couple of times I did something like
this:
I would use the kid-behavior to them at a moment when they really wanted my
attention. I didn't have that exact example above, but a few things, like
total subject changing, or dirty looks or whining.
But to do it with the thing above, I would pick some non-crucial time or
moment and when he started to tell me something I would cover my ears and yell
"I'm not listening" and turn away and maybe really lay it on. When it
happened with my kids I did it just long enough for them to think "WHAT!?" and then
figure it out, and then start to get frustrated. About five seconds,
probably. And then if they protested, I'd say "I thought you thought that was an
okay way to communicate" or something like that. Or "I thought you liked
whining." And they'd say something and I'd say something real and immediate, like
(them) "Well I don't," and (me) then maybe you should do it to other people
because they don't like it either."
So it was a little role-playing moment removed from the time when they were
actually in the throes of their own irritating behavior.
It's not the best thing I ever did with kids, but it's not the worst,
either, and sometimes a couple of seconds of shock that they can think about in
their own way later can be useful.
That is IF the kid has some interpersonal or intrapersonal skills. I think
a child with Asperger's or other shut-down in the social skills area might
not benefit from it, if they can't transfer what they've felt to what others
might be feeling, or if that behavior wouldn't surprise them or hurt their
feelings any at all. Then I have no ideas but to just give it time.
"Breathe" was the thing said most here, and the kids will say it to me, too,
if I'm hurt or getting seriously flustered and feeling like I have NO time
and things are spinning out of control. "Breathe." And it goes with eye
contact and a deep breath to model and share. That calms down the person who's
trying to do the calming, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000@... writes:
-=-Ds (4) started covering his ears with his hands and yelling "I'm not
listening" when we'd try to talk about a problem. It's hard to stay
calm, but I just waited for a minute, gave him time to breathe and
then reminded him of our standard: use gentle words. -=-
It might not be the best plan, but a couple of times I did something like
this:
I would use the kid-behavior to them at a moment when they really wanted my
attention. I didn't have that exact example above, but a few things, like
total subject changing, or dirty looks or whining.
But to do it with the thing above, I would pick some non-crucial time or
moment and when he started to tell me something I would cover my ears and yell
"I'm not listening" and turn away and maybe really lay it on. When it
happened with my kids I did it just long enough for them to think "WHAT!?" and then
figure it out, and then start to get frustrated. About five seconds,
probably. And then if they protested, I'd say "I thought you thought that was an
okay way to communicate" or something like that. Or "I thought you liked
whining." And they'd say something and I'd say something real and immediate, like
(them) "Well I don't," and (me) then maybe you should do it to other people
because they don't like it either."
So it was a little role-playing moment removed from the time when they were
actually in the throes of their own irritating behavior.
It's not the best thing I ever did with kids, but it's not the worst,
either, and sometimes a couple of seconds of shock that they can think about in
their own way later can be useful.
That is IF the kid has some interpersonal or intrapersonal skills. I think
a child with Asperger's or other shut-down in the social skills area might
not benefit from it, if they can't transfer what they've felt to what others
might be feeling, or if that behavior wouldn't surprise them or hurt their
feelings any at all. Then I have no ideas but to just give it time.
"Breathe" was the thing said most here, and the kids will say it to me, too,
if I'm hurt or getting seriously flustered and feeling like I have NO time
and things are spinning out of control. "Breathe." And it goes with eye
contact and a deep breath to model and share. That calms down the person who's
trying to do the calming, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MomtoLJ
SandraDodd@... wrote:
the time. I've had sixth graders who were totally overwhelmed and upset
and about to become violent in my classroom and if I can just get them
to breathe... I've used it on the soccer field to calm down a player who
is injured, at home to calm a frustrated or angry child, and with myself.
Janene is my hitter, and I typically try to name her feeling, and then I
tell her that I'm not to be hit. I've left the room, but usually I just
hold her. You can't hit if you are being held. Not theraputic holding
but just cuddling.
Joylyn
> "Breathe" was the thing said most here, and the kids will say it toI think the breathe thing works better than anything else. I use it all
> me, too,
> if I'm hurt or getting seriously flustered and feeling like I have
> NO time
> and things are spinning out of control. "Breathe." And it goes with
> eye
> contact and a deep breath to model and share. That calms down the
> person who's
> trying to do the calming, too.
the time. I've had sixth graders who were totally overwhelmed and upset
and about to become violent in my classroom and if I can just get them
to breathe... I've used it on the soccer field to calm down a player who
is injured, at home to calm a frustrated or angry child, and with myself.
Janene is my hitter, and I typically try to name her feeling, and then I
tell her that I'm not to be hit. I've left the room, but usually I just
hold her. You can't hit if you are being held. Not theraputic holding
but just cuddling.
Joylyn
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Pam Tellew
> > I would tell him too, truthfully, that there are people in jail and prisonI guess I'd like to put out a caution on this one. I tried this with both
> >for just hitting another person.
my kids. With one it didn't seem to make an impact either way. The other
one it terrified. I'm sure I didn't say it in the best way possible or at
the best time, but I really think it scared him in a bad way. He felt that
he had little or no control over the hitting and telling him about jail
must have seemed like a prediction of something he couldn't avoid. I
should ask him now at age ten what he remembers about that from a few years
back. Even bringing that up at a calm time was too much for him. He
immediately felt ashamed and scared. In retrospect, I think we would have
been better off if I'd said something to the effect that we as his parents
need to help him get that under control so that he can control himself as
he gets older because our laws don't let adults do that.
Pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/05 6:06:20 PM, pamtellew@... writes:
<< In retrospect, I think we would have
been better off if I'd said something to the effect that we as his parents
need to help him get that under control so that he can control himself as
he gets older because our laws don't let adults do that.
The law doesn't let kids do it either.
There are kids in state reform schools, and there are children tried as
adults.
Sandra
<< In retrospect, I think we would have
been better off if I'd said something to the effect that we as his parents
need to help him get that under control so that he can control himself as
he gets older because our laws don't let adults do that.
>>Maybe.
The law doesn't let kids do it either.
There are kids in state reform schools, and there are children tried as
adults.
Sandra