Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Doing it
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/11/05 3:18:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
I am like that. It's really interfering with what I DO want to do. If Joey
even mentions the cat box that needs to be cleaned, something inside me shuts
down and I DON'T clean it. If he comments that he can't find clean socks I
feel resentful because I hear it as, "Woman, go wash my socks!"
So I don't do it. I believe that change is necessary.
So what do I do? <g>
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> I agree. If the mother says "DO" and the child wishes she hadn't, the onlyHoly Cow.
> way the child wins the battle of wills is to NOT do. "That'll show her,"
> and when he grows up he asserts his separateness by NOT doing.
>
> Sandra
>
>
I am like that. It's really interfering with what I DO want to do. If Joey
even mentions the cat box that needs to be cleaned, something inside me shuts
down and I DON'T clean it. If he comments that he can't find clean socks I
feel resentful because I hear it as, "Woman, go wash my socks!"
So I don't do it. I believe that change is necessary.
So what do I do? <g>
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/12/2005 9:46:02 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
Earthmomma67@... writes:
I am like that. It's really interfering with what I DO want to do. If
Joey
even mentions the cat box that needs to be cleaned, something inside me
shuts
down and I DON'T clean it. If he comments that he can't find clean socks I
feel resentful because I hear it as, "Woman, go wash my socks!"
So I don't do it. I believe that change is necessary.
So what do I do? <g>
===========
Clean the cat box for the cat's sake.
Wash the socks because life is better for everyone in a family when each
person had a choice of socks that morning. It will be happier for the cat, then
too. Wash socks for the cat's sake.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Earthmomma67@... writes:
I am like that. It's really interfering with what I DO want to do. If
Joey
even mentions the cat box that needs to be cleaned, something inside me
shuts
down and I DON'T clean it. If he comments that he can't find clean socks I
feel resentful because I hear it as, "Woman, go wash my socks!"
So I don't do it. I believe that change is necessary.
So what do I do? <g>
===========
Clean the cat box for the cat's sake.
Wash the socks because life is better for everyone in a family when each
person had a choice of socks that morning. It will be happier for the cat, then
too. Wash socks for the cat's sake.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**If he comments that he can't find clean socks I
feel resentful because I hear it as, "Woman, go wash my socks!"**
I try to duck my sense of guilt with a shield of humor. So I say "Darn
it! The laundry fairy didn't bring us any socks." (Sometimes I'll add
"I'm gonna have to have a talk with her.") (If it starts to happen
frequently, I will buy more socks. When the laundry gets piled up,
socks do seem to sift down to the bottom of the heap and stay there.)
I think cat boxes are so disgusting that I'm not willing to have a cat.
(The fact that ds is violently allergic helps reinforce that decision.)
I read a lot of feminist stuff about housework in the 70's, so my guilt
demons are very tiny and easily stomped out. In my opinion, no one who
works 7 days a week every week and is on call at nights should work more
than 3 or 4 hours per day. Down with the 12 hour work day! Up with
dust balls!
I'm kind of crabby and won't "follow orders" unless they make sense. I
don't expect obedience from my kid either, just cooperation.
Betsy
feel resentful because I hear it as, "Woman, go wash my socks!"**
I try to duck my sense of guilt with a shield of humor. So I say "Darn
it! The laundry fairy didn't bring us any socks." (Sometimes I'll add
"I'm gonna have to have a talk with her.") (If it starts to happen
frequently, I will buy more socks. When the laundry gets piled up,
socks do seem to sift down to the bottom of the heap and stay there.)
I think cat boxes are so disgusting that I'm not willing to have a cat.
(The fact that ds is violently allergic helps reinforce that decision.)
I read a lot of feminist stuff about housework in the 70's, so my guilt
demons are very tiny and easily stomped out. In my opinion, no one who
works 7 days a week every week and is on call at nights should work more
than 3 or 4 hours per day. Down with the 12 hour work day! Up with
dust balls!
I'm kind of crabby and won't "follow orders" unless they make sense. I
don't expect obedience from my kid either, just cooperation.
Betsy
[email protected]
I think cat boxes are so disgusting that I'm not willing to have a cat.
(The fact that ds is violently allergic helps reinforce that decision.)
==========
I use cardboard flats (like sodas come in) or xerox-box lids. I might scoop
a time or two, but at some point the whole box is slid into a trash bag, and
a new box with new litter is set out. Not so difficult.
Note to everyone:
Wash the damned socks without attaching angst or history or politics or
power struggles to it. It's not like we have to haul water and heat it over a
fire and use a scrub board. We're not ironing and starching men's shirts.
When they're old you don't darn them, you buy some more socks at Target.
Just as being nice to kids makes nicer kids, being nice to husbands makes
nicer husbands.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(The fact that ds is violently allergic helps reinforce that decision.)
==========
I use cardboard flats (like sodas come in) or xerox-box lids. I might scoop
a time or two, but at some point the whole box is slid into a trash bag, and
a new box with new litter is set out. Not so difficult.
Note to everyone:
Wash the damned socks without attaching angst or history or politics or
power struggles to it. It's not like we have to haul water and heat it over a
fire and use a scrub board. We're not ironing and starching men's shirts.
When they're old you don't darn them, you buy some more socks at Target.
Just as being nice to kids makes nicer kids, being nice to husbands makes
nicer husbands.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/12/2005 12:35:07 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
I use cardboard flats (like sodas come in) or xerox-box lids. I might
scoop
a time or two, but at some point the whole box is slid into a trash bag,
and
a new box with new litter is set out. Not so difficult.
~~~
I use a doggie door to let my cats come and go as they please. :)
Last week we were seeing record rainfall and our back yard was completely
flooded. One morning while it was pouring, Cooler, our black cat, kept running
in and out of the doggie door really fast. Charles came upstairs to let me
know the cat was acting strange. I said I thought he had to "go" really bad,
and so I filled up the cat box we used to have and he couldn't wait to get in
it.
~~~
Wash the damned socks without attaching angst or history or politics or
power struggles to it.
~~~
Or, make it easy for hubby to do it. In our house, whomever wants the house
the cleanest does most of the work. It varies from week to week, day to
day. I probably do more just because I'm home more. But I'd probably go move
the load out of the washer while he went and gathered up his socks. I can't
imagine him ever telling me he's out of socks, and then expecting me to wash
them. He does his own laundry. On Sundays.
We've had our share of power struggles over housework, but after 15 years
we've worked them out.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
I use cardboard flats (like sodas come in) or xerox-box lids. I might
scoop
a time or two, but at some point the whole box is slid into a trash bag,
and
a new box with new litter is set out. Not so difficult.
~~~
I use a doggie door to let my cats come and go as they please. :)
Last week we were seeing record rainfall and our back yard was completely
flooded. One morning while it was pouring, Cooler, our black cat, kept running
in and out of the doggie door really fast. Charles came upstairs to let me
know the cat was acting strange. I said I thought he had to "go" really bad,
and so I filled up the cat box we used to have and he couldn't wait to get in
it.
~~~
Wash the damned socks without attaching angst or history or politics or
power struggles to it.
~~~
Or, make it easy for hubby to do it. In our house, whomever wants the house
the cleanest does most of the work. It varies from week to week, day to
day. I probably do more just because I'm home more. But I'd probably go move
the load out of the washer while he went and gathered up his socks. I can't
imagine him ever telling me he's out of socks, and then expecting me to wash
them. He does his own laundry. On Sundays.
We've had our share of power struggles over housework, but after 15 years
we've worked them out.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/12/2005 12:35:48 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
tuckervill2@... writes:
I use a doggie door to let my cats come and go as they please. :)
=====
We have too.
When it's rainy or snowy the cats don't want to go out. I have a litter
tray right by the doggie door, which is rarely used and just sits there. But
one of our three cats is a weirdo male who wants a litter box. So he's the
only one who ever uses it, but if I don't keep it clean he'll go on carpet or
cloth somewhere. He goes outside too sometimes. It's easier to furnish him a
dark corner and a box than it is to clean up. The females like to go
outside. Sometimes I rake up a place for them to go easily. Nice to have a big
yard with some plain dirt places, and not all too fancy for cats to go.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tuckervill2@... writes:
I use a doggie door to let my cats come and go as they please. :)
=====
We have too.
When it's rainy or snowy the cats don't want to go out. I have a litter
tray right by the doggie door, which is rarely used and just sits there. But
one of our three cats is a weirdo male who wants a litter box. So he's the
only one who ever uses it, but if I don't keep it clean he'll go on carpet or
cloth somewhere. He goes outside too sometimes. It's easier to furnish him a
dark corner and a box than it is to clean up. The females like to go
outside. Sometimes I rake up a place for them to go easily. Nice to have a big
yard with some plain dirt places, and not all too fancy for cats to go.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: <SandraDodd@...>
<<We have too.
When it's rainy or snowy the cats don't want to go out. I have a litter
tray right by the doggie door, which is rarely used and just sits there.>>
We have 6 cats who never go out of the house alone. We have an automatic
little box. A wonderful creation! No scooping, just empty the tray where
it's all collected. Easy.
Mary B
<<We have too.
When it's rainy or snowy the cats don't want to go out. I have a litter
tray right by the doggie door, which is rarely used and just sits there.>>
We have 6 cats who never go out of the house alone. We have an automatic
little box. A wonderful creation! No scooping, just empty the tray where
it's all collected. Easy.
Mary B
Cally Brown
Cultural and linguistic differences: In New Zealand 'doggie doors' are
very rare. But lots of people have 'cat flaps', which are just a smaller
version of the same thing.
Cally
very rare. But lots of people have 'cat flaps', which are just a smaller
version of the same thing.
Cally
>I use a doggie door to let my cats come and go as they please. :)
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/12/2005 6:39:34 PM Central Standard Time,
mjcmbrwn@... writes:
Cultural and linguistic differences: In New Zealand 'doggie doors' are
very rare. But lots of people have 'cat flaps', which are just a smaller
version of the same thing.
Cally
Ha. We have cat flaps here, too, but then my doggies wouldn't fit through
them. :)
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mjcmbrwn@... writes:
Cultural and linguistic differences: In New Zealand 'doggie doors' are
very rare. But lots of people have 'cat flaps', which are just a smaller
version of the same thing.
Cally
>I use a doggie door to let my cats come and go as they please.~~~
Ha. We have cat flaps here, too, but then my doggies wouldn't fit through
them. :)
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
(If it starts to happen frequently, I will buy more socks.
*****
I spent the last couple of weeks complaining that Gary didn't ever have clean socks (I check early in the week for him, so he won't run out -- saves on my stress levels). I was convinced he should have enough socks, just couldn't figure out where they'd all gone. Finally, I bought another 4-pack last week - now there are 8 or 9 pairs in his drawer.
Another helpful thing for me is to do laundry all thru the week, rather than just on one day. I do a couple of loads every other day or so, and it seems less daunting. Catboxes get changed the evening before trash day, so it all goes out the next morning. Having two boxes seems to help, too.
I spent some years specifically NOT doing all the things my Mom had required of me, and NOT doing anything the way she had done it. The negative method didn't give me great guidelines, but at least I avoided things like spanking and forcing my kids to be house-slaves.
When my Mom was with us (from Halloween to New Year's -- she's out now!) she several times mentioned how hard I work, how much I do around the house, and how I should have the kids do more. I ignored her the first few times. Some time during her last week here, I'd had enough. When she said, 'you did housework as a kid, now it's your turn to..." I interrupted her and said that just because I had done housework as a kid, didn't give me the right now to demand the same of my kids. I told her I ask of my kids what I'm comfortable with. I know it's not what she'd be comfortable asking of kids, but now it's my turn to the be Mom, and this is what I'm comfortable with.
I realized that's really what it's all about. I clean house -- to the extent that I do -- because it's what I want. I like order in the living room, but the playroom can be chaotic. I really like to find an empty sink in the morning so I do the dishes every night. I like clean towels, but whether the bathroom floor gets mopped is really a non-issue to me. If the mirror is too streaked to see my reflection (and if I really want to see what I look like<g>) I'll clean it when it bothers me. I do the things that matter to me as an adult, and I'm confident that when my kids grow up, they'll do the things that matter to them. They won't need me to tell them what should be done, or who they should have do it for them.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*****
I spent the last couple of weeks complaining that Gary didn't ever have clean socks (I check early in the week for him, so he won't run out -- saves on my stress levels). I was convinced he should have enough socks, just couldn't figure out where they'd all gone. Finally, I bought another 4-pack last week - now there are 8 or 9 pairs in his drawer.
Another helpful thing for me is to do laundry all thru the week, rather than just on one day. I do a couple of loads every other day or so, and it seems less daunting. Catboxes get changed the evening before trash day, so it all goes out the next morning. Having two boxes seems to help, too.
I spent some years specifically NOT doing all the things my Mom had required of me, and NOT doing anything the way she had done it. The negative method didn't give me great guidelines, but at least I avoided things like spanking and forcing my kids to be house-slaves.
When my Mom was with us (from Halloween to New Year's -- she's out now!) she several times mentioned how hard I work, how much I do around the house, and how I should have the kids do more. I ignored her the first few times. Some time during her last week here, I'd had enough. When she said, 'you did housework as a kid, now it's your turn to..." I interrupted her and said that just because I had done housework as a kid, didn't give me the right now to demand the same of my kids. I told her I ask of my kids what I'm comfortable with. I know it's not what she'd be comfortable asking of kids, but now it's my turn to the be Mom, and this is what I'm comfortable with.
I realized that's really what it's all about. I clean house -- to the extent that I do -- because it's what I want. I like order in the living room, but the playroom can be chaotic. I really like to find an empty sink in the morning so I do the dishes every night. I like clean towels, but whether the bathroom floor gets mopped is really a non-issue to me. If the mirror is too streaked to see my reflection (and if I really want to see what I look like<g>) I'll clean it when it bothers me. I do the things that matter to me as an adult, and I'm confident that when my kids grow up, they'll do the things that matter to them. They won't need me to tell them what should be done, or who they should have do it for them.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/12/2005 7:41:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mummy124@... writes:
We have 6 cats who never go out of the house alone. We have an automatic
little box. A wonderful creation! No scooping, just empty the tray where
it's all collected. Easy.
Mary B
I have been considering that for my two cats. I either get that the
cats/family love it or they hate it. Did your cats have any period of adjustment to
the box? Has it ever started it's cleaning cycle while the cat was in the
box?
Is yours the "littermaid" brand? I know there are two of them on the market
right now.
Thanks for your input. My two cats seem to be getting snarky with each
other over the litter box and I'm thinking of just doing something less
maintenance wise these days.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummy124@... writes:
We have 6 cats who never go out of the house alone. We have an automatic
little box. A wonderful creation! No scooping, just empty the tray where
it's all collected. Easy.
Mary B
I have been considering that for my two cats. I either get that the
cats/family love it or they hate it. Did your cats have any period of adjustment to
the box? Has it ever started it's cleaning cycle while the cat was in the
box?
Is yours the "littermaid" brand? I know there are two of them on the market
right now.
Thanks for your input. My two cats seem to be getting snarky with each
other over the litter box and I'm thinking of just doing something less
maintenance wise these days.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nichole Fausey-Khosraviani
----- Original Message -----
From: Earthmomma67@...
Holy Cow.
I am like that. It's really interfering with what I DO want to do. If Joey
even mentions the cat box that needs to be cleaned, something inside me shuts
down and I DON'T clean it. If he comments that he can't find clean socks I
feel resentful because I hear it as, "Woman, go wash my socks!"
So I don't do it. I believe that change is necessary.
So what do I do? <g>
Elissa
************************
Hi Elissa,
This is a constant battle for me, too, but I'm finally winning. I have been rebelling against people telling me what to do ever since I can remember and now at 36, I'm getting a hold on it. It's not about socks, it's not about the cat box, it's about being told what to do, or *hearing* that we're being told what to do even when we're not.
Now, I do a whole lot of self-talk, affirmations, even chanting--I don't know if it's working exactly, but my house is cleaner and I'm not so uptight about it. Another thing, if my house is clean there's no way anyone can tell me it's not. I might not also turn innocent comments into something they're not.
My childhood was very controlled, and punished, etc. So, though I may choose to clean, like my mother would have wanted and ordered me to, I can likewise make choices that she'd hate, like hanging maps on the walls of the living room, letting my child stay up to 1:30 am, or whenever she wants to go to bed, letting my desk be as messy as it can be for as long as I can stand it.
I think we change being rebellious or resentful now by choosing what's best for us because it IS best, not because someone told us to or expects us to. When it comes right down to it, everything we do is a choice. I enjoy making choices that benefit my family and myself. It's a much less complicated way to live.
HTH,
Nichole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/13/05 11:37 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... at rubyprincesstsg@...
wrote:
If it did start cleaning while they were in there, it didn't traumatize
them. Maybe it resets when whatever triggers the delayed cleaning cycle gets
tripped?
Joyce
wrote:
> Is yours the "littermaid" brand? I know there are two of them on the marketWe have a Littermaid one. The cats think it's fascinating.
> right now.
If it did start cleaning while they were in there, it didn't traumatize
them. Maybe it resets when whatever triggers the delayed cleaning cycle gets
tripped?
Joyce
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<If he comments that he can't find clean socks I
feel resentful because I hear it as, "Woman, go wash my socks!">>>>
This instant desire to rebel because I was told/ordered to do it is
something that I struggle with also. It seemed to happen a lot in my
childhood that I would be on the point of doing some task, for example
getting up to carry out my plate, when my mother would tell me to do it. It
was infuriating. I felt that I never got the credit for doing the job, or
even for being willing to do it. I also felt completely untrusted, and as if
she thought I was stupid. If I ever said, "I was just about to do that", I
was treated to disbelieving and condescending comments.
The way my husband occasionally does a similar thing now is that he says in
a somewhat reproachful tone, "I thought you were going to ....... today", as
if I have blown it off when I merely haven't done it *yet*. He tells me that
he believes that if he didn't say this kind of thing I would not complete
whatever the household task is - like do the grocery shopping. It drives me
crazy, because there seems no way to get him to stop this commentary except
to prove him wrong with utter perfection on my part. I guess it is a hot
button trigger for me, probably because of my experience with Mum.
Amazingly I managed to have clean clothes and food in the house when I was
single, which I can tell you from our dating days were not by any means
assured in *his* apartment.
In terms of laundry what works over here (in an apartment complex) is that
generally I do all the laundry on Wednesdays. OTOH here is something that
puts a slightly different spin on the whole housekeeping thing, that I have
posted before.
Quote begins:
<<<<<Our house is pretty messy, but at one time was much more so than usual
for a while. Jayn was very little at the time, and not being the big creator
that she is now. I was just letting things go some, feeling a little
overwhelmed and resentful - alone in the task. I hadn't learnt to ask for
help very well yet. Dh was getting snappier and grumpier. And there were
some arguments, where I was baffled at the intensity of his emotions. I mean
he is the person who would step over the doll five times, and then explode
about mess and make it my responsibility, rather than just pick up the doll
the first time.
It finally came out, with many tears on both our parts, that he was afraid I
didn't love him anymore and was planning to leave him, because I wasn't
taking care of "his home". He truly saw (sees) the housework I do as a gift
of love to him. It had never occurred to me to see it that way, just as I
don't think it occurred to him to have to express that idea, and his
gratitude, to me. He just tried to "force" my love back by demanding I clean
up. Since from my perspective my love hadn't gone away I just got hurt and
angry.
Things have been way better since. He is more relaxed, or at least acceptant
of the times when the house gets out of hand. I try harder to stay on top of
things and am much more successful at asking for help, including regular
purges of accumulated clutter - my stuff only, sometimes his. Jayn is a
hoarder at the moment. He is also more grateful, and I do all I can to
express love and reassurance to him in other ways. >>>>>>
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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feel resentful because I hear it as, "Woman, go wash my socks!">>>>
This instant desire to rebel because I was told/ordered to do it is
something that I struggle with also. It seemed to happen a lot in my
childhood that I would be on the point of doing some task, for example
getting up to carry out my plate, when my mother would tell me to do it. It
was infuriating. I felt that I never got the credit for doing the job, or
even for being willing to do it. I also felt completely untrusted, and as if
she thought I was stupid. If I ever said, "I was just about to do that", I
was treated to disbelieving and condescending comments.
The way my husband occasionally does a similar thing now is that he says in
a somewhat reproachful tone, "I thought you were going to ....... today", as
if I have blown it off when I merely haven't done it *yet*. He tells me that
he believes that if he didn't say this kind of thing I would not complete
whatever the household task is - like do the grocery shopping. It drives me
crazy, because there seems no way to get him to stop this commentary except
to prove him wrong with utter perfection on my part. I guess it is a hot
button trigger for me, probably because of my experience with Mum.
Amazingly I managed to have clean clothes and food in the house when I was
single, which I can tell you from our dating days were not by any means
assured in *his* apartment.
In terms of laundry what works over here (in an apartment complex) is that
generally I do all the laundry on Wednesdays. OTOH here is something that
puts a slightly different spin on the whole housekeeping thing, that I have
posted before.
Quote begins:
<<<<<Our house is pretty messy, but at one time was much more so than usual
for a while. Jayn was very little at the time, and not being the big creator
that she is now. I was just letting things go some, feeling a little
overwhelmed and resentful - alone in the task. I hadn't learnt to ask for
help very well yet. Dh was getting snappier and grumpier. And there were
some arguments, where I was baffled at the intensity of his emotions. I mean
he is the person who would step over the doll five times, and then explode
about mess and make it my responsibility, rather than just pick up the doll
the first time.
It finally came out, with many tears on both our parts, that he was afraid I
didn't love him anymore and was planning to leave him, because I wasn't
taking care of "his home". He truly saw (sees) the housework I do as a gift
of love to him. It had never occurred to me to see it that way, just as I
don't think it occurred to him to have to express that idea, and his
gratitude, to me. He just tried to "force" my love back by demanding I clean
up. Since from my perspective my love hadn't gone away I just got hurt and
angry.
Things have been way better since. He is more relaxed, or at least acceptant
of the times when the house gets out of hand. I try harder to stay on top of
things and am much more successful at asking for help, including regular
purges of accumulated clutter - my stuff only, sometimes his. Jayn is a
hoarder at the moment. He is also more grateful, and I do all I can to
express love and reassurance to him in other ways. >>>>>>
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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