An Unschooling Philosophy Question/Concern
Elisa Tauraso
I am still exploring unschooling and am in the midst of reading all the wonderful books that you all have suggested however I have a concern not yet answered....
For example, today I asked my daughter to skip count with me in an effort to lean her towards learning her times tables. I did not mention the words "school" nor "work" however she balked me the whole time and said she didn't want to do it; she was tired; she was hungry (and we had just eaten lunch!). In other words she didn't want to do it and therefore was not going to do it. I lost my cool and did a bad Mom thing and told her she had to do it and that was that and that in life when she's a big girl sometimes she must do the things required of her whether or not she likes it.
Are we not teaching our children by unschooling that they can do whatever they want whenever they want and if someone says they must do something are we not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they won't do what is required of them?? For example, if they grow up and their boss says, "have that report on my desk tomorrow morning" I'm afraid my kids would say, "I don't feel like it." Life doesn't work like that! Unfortunately life is not doing what you want whenever you want all the time.
Am I not seeing this correctly or do you all have the same or similar concerns??
Thanks,
Elisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For example, today I asked my daughter to skip count with me in an effort to lean her towards learning her times tables. I did not mention the words "school" nor "work" however she balked me the whole time and said she didn't want to do it; she was tired; she was hungry (and we had just eaten lunch!). In other words she didn't want to do it and therefore was not going to do it. I lost my cool and did a bad Mom thing and told her she had to do it and that was that and that in life when she's a big girl sometimes she must do the things required of her whether or not she likes it.
Are we not teaching our children by unschooling that they can do whatever they want whenever they want and if someone says they must do something are we not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they won't do what is required of them?? For example, if they grow up and their boss says, "have that report on my desk tomorrow morning" I'm afraid my kids would say, "I don't feel like it." Life doesn't work like that! Unfortunately life is not doing what you want whenever you want all the time.
Am I not seeing this correctly or do you all have the same or similar concerns??
Thanks,
Elisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S
If the job is important to your dd, she will do whatever is necessary to
keep it, even getting that report on the boss' desk by tomorrow morning. I
don't think we need to make our children do unpleasant things now in order
to prepare them for unpleasantness they might run into later in life.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keep it, even getting that report on the boss' desk by tomorrow morning. I
don't think we need to make our children do unpleasant things now in order
to prepare them for unpleasantness they might run into later in life.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lindamariesmith2003
Well, life CAN be doing what you want IF you want it bad enough.
We all have the option of telling our bosses that we dont want to do
something, of course we run the risk of getting fired but the bottom
line is that (unless you're in the military) our bosses really cant
MAKE us do anything that we dont want to do. So why DO we do
things that we arent excited about when we're working? Usually
because we like the other parts of the job...maybe the pay, the
hours, the benefits etc. If you really think about it we ARE
choosing to do the things our bosses ask us to do, we may SAY
we "have" to do it but in reality we dont. We all have the option
of telling our bosses 'no' at any time.
In my opinion there is a huge difference between situation A: a work
situation with a boss telling us what to do, and situation B: mom
and dad telling us what to do. Mom and Dad telling us what to do
isnt always like real life where we DO have options and can weigh
out the consequences for ourselves and make a decision.
We can choose to break or follow laws, listen or not listen to
bosses etc and each choice has a result but in the end we're free to
make the choice.
Linda
--- In [email protected], "Elisa Tauraso"
<elisatauraso@m...> wrote:
concern not yet answered....
mention the words "school" nor "work" however she balked me the
whole time and said she didn't want to do it; she was tired; she was
hungry (and we had just eaten lunch!). In other words she didn't
want to do it and therefore was not going to do it. I lost my cool
and did a bad Mom thing and told her she had to do it and that was
that and that in life when she's a big girl sometimes she must do
the things required of her whether or not she likes it.
do something are we not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where
they won't do what is required of them?? For example, if they grow
up and their boss says, "have that report on my desk tomorrow
morning" I'm afraid my kids would say, "I don't feel like it." Life
doesn't work like that! Unfortunately life is not doing what you
want whenever you want all the time.
We all have the option of telling our bosses that we dont want to do
something, of course we run the risk of getting fired but the bottom
line is that (unless you're in the military) our bosses really cant
MAKE us do anything that we dont want to do. So why DO we do
things that we arent excited about when we're working? Usually
because we like the other parts of the job...maybe the pay, the
hours, the benefits etc. If you really think about it we ARE
choosing to do the things our bosses ask us to do, we may SAY
we "have" to do it but in reality we dont. We all have the option
of telling our bosses 'no' at any time.
In my opinion there is a huge difference between situation A: a work
situation with a boss telling us what to do, and situation B: mom
and dad telling us what to do. Mom and Dad telling us what to do
isnt always like real life where we DO have options and can weigh
out the consequences for ourselves and make a decision.
We can choose to break or follow laws, listen or not listen to
bosses etc and each choice has a result but in the end we're free to
make the choice.
Linda
--- In [email protected], "Elisa Tauraso"
<elisatauraso@m...> wrote:
>all the wonderful books that you all have suggested however I have a
> I am still exploring unschooling and am in the midst of reading
concern not yet answered....
>effort to lean her towards learning her times tables. I did not
> For example, today I asked my daughter to skip count with me in an
mention the words "school" nor "work" however she balked me the
whole time and said she didn't want to do it; she was tired; she was
hungry (and we had just eaten lunch!). In other words she didn't
want to do it and therefore was not going to do it. I lost my cool
and did a bad Mom thing and told her she had to do it and that was
that and that in life when she's a big girl sometimes she must do
the things required of her whether or not she likes it.
>whatever they want whenever they want and if someone says they must
> Are we not teaching our children by unschooling that they can do
do something are we not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where
they won't do what is required of them?? For example, if they grow
up and their boss says, "have that report on my desk tomorrow
morning" I'm afraid my kids would say, "I don't feel like it." Life
doesn't work like that! Unfortunately life is not doing what you
want whenever you want all the time.
>similar concerns??
> Am I not seeing this correctly or do you all have the same or
>
> Thanks,
> Elisa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Jan 10, 2005, at 11:32 AM, Elisa Tauraso wrote:
important to do what somebody else asks us to do and when it isn't."
They add, "But it is true that we're not going to automatically do what
somebody else tells us to do, we're going to think about it and decide
if we should or not. If it is our boss and we know that she or he
really wants it done, then we'll do it. If we don't like the way we're
treated in a job we'll find a different job, though."
-pam
>My kids (17 and 13) say, "We're not stupid, we know when it is
> Are we not teaching our children by unschooling that they can do
> whatever they want whenever they want and if someone says they must do
> something are we not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they
> won't do what is required of them?? For example, if they grow up and
> their boss says, "have that report on my desk tomorrow morning" I'm
> afraid my kids would say, "I don't feel like it." Life doesn't work
> like that! Unfortunately life is not doing what you want whenever you
> want all the time.
>
> Am I not seeing this correctly or do you all have the same or similar
> concerns??
important to do what somebody else asks us to do and when it isn't."
They add, "But it is true that we're not going to automatically do what
somebody else tells us to do, we're going to think about it and decide
if we should or not. If it is our boss and we know that she or he
really wants it done, then we'll do it. If we don't like the way we're
treated in a job we'll find a different job, though."
-pam
pam sorooshian
I wanted to add that my kids are now all taking college courses - the
first two have been taking them for some time. They have assignments
and deadlines and requirements and they've had no trouble adhering to
all of these. They take classes that they choose to take because they
want to take them - musical theater, computer programming, history of
opera, and so on. My oldest did this for quite a few years - just took
whatever interested her - and then this past year she decided to
transfer to a university so she filled in the few remaining courses she
needed to complete her general education requirements. This was the
first time she'd taken courses because they were requirements - she
liked some, others not so much, but she still managed to adhere to
deadlines and do the assignments and get high grades.
My oldest has had a few different jobs and has been a very-much valued
employee at all of them - does her work with enthusiasm and creativity
and energy and the very idea of 'shirking' would never enter her mind.
So - my answer to the original question is that it simply hasn't turned
out to be a problem in our real lives.
I think those kids who are required to do things all the time are
really, in a big way, being trained to try to shirk.
-pam
first two have been taking them for some time. They have assignments
and deadlines and requirements and they've had no trouble adhering to
all of these. They take classes that they choose to take because they
want to take them - musical theater, computer programming, history of
opera, and so on. My oldest did this for quite a few years - just took
whatever interested her - and then this past year she decided to
transfer to a university so she filled in the few remaining courses she
needed to complete her general education requirements. This was the
first time she'd taken courses because they were requirements - she
liked some, others not so much, but she still managed to adhere to
deadlines and do the assignments and get high grades.
My oldest has had a few different jobs and has been a very-much valued
employee at all of them - does her work with enthusiasm and creativity
and energy and the very idea of 'shirking' would never enter her mind.
So - my answer to the original question is that it simply hasn't turned
out to be a problem in our real lives.
I think those kids who are required to do things all the time are
really, in a big way, being trained to try to shirk.
-pam
On Jan 10, 2005, at 4:51 PM, pam sorooshian wrote:
>
> My kids (17 and 13) say, "We're not stupid, we know when it is
> important to do what somebody else asks us to do and when it isn't."
> They add, "But it is true that we're not going to automatically do what
> somebody else tells us to do, we're going to think about it and decide
> if we should or not. If it is our boss and we know that she or he
> really wants it done, then we'll do it. If we don't like the way we're
> treated in a job we'll find a different job, though."
Elisa Tauraso
You know, maybe you are right. This particular daughter has been taking acting classes for 3 years because she wants to and she always knows her lines when she needs to for the various plays she's in. I guess I didn't think of this when faced with a confrontation today. I still have a lot of unschooling to do for myself but groups like this help me alot and give me the support I need. Thanks! I'm still thinking, reading, and learning...
Elisa
Elisa
----- Original Message -----
From: pam sorooshian
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 7:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] An Unschooling Philosophy Question/Concern
I wanted to add that my kids are now all taking college courses - the
first two have been taking them for some time. They have assignments
and deadlines and requirements and they've had no trouble adhering to
all of these. They take classes that they choose to take because they
want to take them - musical theater, computer programming, history of
opera, and so on. My oldest did this for quite a few years - just took
whatever interested her - and then this past year she decided to
transfer to a university so she filled in the few remaining courses she
needed to complete her general education requirements. This was the
first time she'd taken courses because they were requirements - she
liked some, others not so much, but she still managed to adhere to
deadlines and do the assignments and get high grades.
My oldest has had a few different jobs and has been a very-much valued
employee at all of them - does her work with enthusiasm and creativity
and energy and the very idea of 'shirking' would never enter her mind.
So - my answer to the original question is that it simply hasn't turned
out to be a problem in our real lives.
I think those kids who are required to do things all the time are
really, in a big way, being trained to try to shirk.
-pam
On Jan 10, 2005, at 4:51 PM, pam sorooshian wrote:
>
> My kids (17 and 13) say, "We're not stupid, we know when it is
> important to do what somebody else asks us to do and when it isn't."
> They add, "But it is true that we're not going to automatically do what
> somebody else tells us to do, we're going to think about it and decide
> if we should or not. If it is our boss and we know that she or he
> really wants it done, then we'll do it. If we don't like the way we're
> treated in a job we'll find a different job, though."
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
**Are we not teaching our children by unschooling that they can do whatever
they want whenever they want and if someone says they must do something are we
not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they won't do what is required
of them??**
Apparently not. :)
My always unschooled 20yo daughter has the strongest "work ethic" of all the
young adults we know, almost all of whom were well schooled in doing what they
were told. She always completes assignments on time or early for her college
classes. She meets deadlines for her job, and fulfills her responsibilities
there professionally and reliably. She's been working at the same place for 10
years, 5 years as a volunteer and the last 5 as a paid staff member with
steadily increasing responsibilities.
My always unschooled 12yo daughter is a volunteer assistant at her dance
studio. She's never missed a day except when she was terribly ill. She's never
late - she prefers to have me wake her for early classes but always sets an alarm
for herself as a backup. Unlike her fellow (schooled) assistants, she makes
an effort to set an example by always wearing proper dance attire and not
fooling around during class.
My always unschooled12yo son had a commitment conflict this past Saturday.
His Lego League robotics team was competing in the regionals, and he had a
rehearsal for the dance theater piece he has chorus parts in that is performing
this weekend. He attended the Robotics competition, and then when he got home he
immediately changed into his dance clothes and asked me to take him to the
studio to see if they were still rehearsing. He didn't even need to do that.
Nobody expected him to show up because he had another commitment, but he felt
strongly he should go if he could.
A child who won't cooperate when a mom is trying to quiz her is fighting
against mistrust. Personally, I hope my kids won't decide to keep working for
people who mistrust them, but work to find (or make!) employment at things they
excell at where they will be valued and needed. The situation you described
isn't in any way comparable to the kind of requirements people face as adults.
Deborah in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they want whenever they want and if someone says they must do something are we
not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they won't do what is required
of them??**
Apparently not. :)
My always unschooled 20yo daughter has the strongest "work ethic" of all the
young adults we know, almost all of whom were well schooled in doing what they
were told. She always completes assignments on time or early for her college
classes. She meets deadlines for her job, and fulfills her responsibilities
there professionally and reliably. She's been working at the same place for 10
years, 5 years as a volunteer and the last 5 as a paid staff member with
steadily increasing responsibilities.
My always unschooled 12yo daughter is a volunteer assistant at her dance
studio. She's never missed a day except when she was terribly ill. She's never
late - she prefers to have me wake her for early classes but always sets an alarm
for herself as a backup. Unlike her fellow (schooled) assistants, she makes
an effort to set an example by always wearing proper dance attire and not
fooling around during class.
My always unschooled12yo son had a commitment conflict this past Saturday.
His Lego League robotics team was competing in the regionals, and he had a
rehearsal for the dance theater piece he has chorus parts in that is performing
this weekend. He attended the Robotics competition, and then when he got home he
immediately changed into his dance clothes and asked me to take him to the
studio to see if they were still rehearsing. He didn't even need to do that.
Nobody expected him to show up because he had another commitment, but he felt
strongly he should go if he could.
A child who won't cooperate when a mom is trying to quiz her is fighting
against mistrust. Personally, I hope my kids won't decide to keep working for
people who mistrust them, but work to find (or make!) employment at things they
excell at where they will be valued and needed. The situation you described
isn't in any way comparable to the kind of requirements people face as adults.
Deborah in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-=-Are we not teaching our children by unschooling that they can do
People who tell their kids what to do and when and how all the time are crippling them more that those who help them decide what's important and what they want to do and when.
It's not theory at my house. My two boys have never been to school and have been steeped in freedom. They both have jobs. Both have jobs that were offered to them, they didn't apply. They're very conscientious and well trusted.
-=-For example, if they grow up and
-=- Life doesn't work
And if you really look at what you do and why, I think you can manage to see that you ARE doing what you want to do each time you make a decision. And it will make your life more pleasant if you can see that instead of telling yourself (and us, and your kids I'm presuming) that you have to do what you don't want to do.
Here's something you might read about that. Some of it came from a discussion kind of like this one.
http://sandradodd.com//unschool/haveto
Marty will go to work because he wants to have that job. Kirby will go and teach karate because he agreed to and the kids love him and they say so.
I just did the dishes because I wanted to.
I want to do a load of laundry tonight because I have grout-water on my jeans.
I want to go to bed and sleep as long as possible, because tomorrow is one day I don't have a need or commitment to get up early.
I don't have to do that laundry, but I don't want my jeans to be stained and stiff. I didn't have to do the dishes but I wanted to do it.
Interestingly, it's a very difficult concept even though it's right in our heads and our mouths and our nervous systems. We don't do anything differently when it's realize, just feel different and *be* a different way.
Sandra
> whatever they want whenever they want and if someone says they must doNo.
> something are we not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they
> won't do what is required of them?? -=-
People who tell their kids what to do and when and how all the time are crippling them more that those who help them decide what's important and what they want to do and when.
It's not theory at my house. My two boys have never been to school and have been steeped in freedom. They both have jobs. Both have jobs that were offered to them, they didn't apply. They're very conscientious and well trusted.
-=-For example, if they grow up and
> their boss says, "have that report on my desk tomorrow morning" I'mJobs aren't handed out randomly. If and when your kid grows up and takes a job (or becomes a teen and takes a job) it will be by choice, and each moment in ANY life involves a choice of what to do and whether and how. THAT is life.
> afraid my kids would say, "I don't feel like it."-=-
-=- Life doesn't work
> like that! Unfortunately life is not doing what you want whenever youIt seems you're telling us how life is as though we don't live there.
> want all the time.-=-
And if you really look at what you do and why, I think you can manage to see that you ARE doing what you want to do each time you make a decision. And it will make your life more pleasant if you can see that instead of telling yourself (and us, and your kids I'm presuming) that you have to do what you don't want to do.
Here's something you might read about that. Some of it came from a discussion kind of like this one.
http://sandradodd.com//unschool/haveto
Marty will go to work because he wants to have that job. Kirby will go and teach karate because he agreed to and the kids love him and they say so.
I just did the dishes because I wanted to.
I want to do a load of laundry tonight because I have grout-water on my jeans.
I want to go to bed and sleep as long as possible, because tomorrow is one day I don't have a need or commitment to get up early.
I don't have to do that laundry, but I don't want my jeans to be stained and stiff. I didn't have to do the dishes but I wanted to do it.
Interestingly, it's a very difficult concept even though it's right in our heads and our mouths and our nervous systems. We don't do anything differently when it's realize, just feel different and *be* a different way.
Sandra
[email protected]
-=-
I wanted to add that my kids are now all taking college courses - the
first two have been taking them for some time. They have assignments
and deadlines and requirements and they've had no trouble adhering to
all of these. They take classes that they choose to take because they
want to take them - musical theater, computer programming, history of
opera, and so on. My oldest did this for quite a few years - just took
whatever interested her - and then this past year she decided to
transfer to a university so she filled in the few remaining courses she
needed to complete her general education requirements. This was the
first time she'd taken courses because they were requirements - she
liked some, others not so much, but she still managed to adhere to
deadlines and do the assignments and get high grades.
My oldest has had a few different jobs and has been a very-much valued
employee at all of them - does her work with enthusiasm and creativity
and energy and the very idea of 'shirking' would never enter her mind.
So - my answer to the original question is that it simply hasn't turned
out to be a problem in our real lives.
I think those kids who are required to do things all the time are
really, in a big way, being trained to try to shirk.-=-
I agree. If the mother says "DO" and the child wishes she hadn't, the only way the child wins the battle of wills is to NOT do. "That'll show her," and when he grows up he asserts his separateness by NOT doing.
Sandra
I wanted to add that my kids are now all taking college courses - the
first two have been taking them for some time. They have assignments
and deadlines and requirements and they've had no trouble adhering to
all of these. They take classes that they choose to take because they
want to take them - musical theater, computer programming, history of
opera, and so on. My oldest did this for quite a few years - just took
whatever interested her - and then this past year she decided to
transfer to a university so she filled in the few remaining courses she
needed to complete her general education requirements. This was the
first time she'd taken courses because they were requirements - she
liked some, others not so much, but she still managed to adhere to
deadlines and do the assignments and get high grades.
My oldest has had a few different jobs and has been a very-much valued
employee at all of them - does her work with enthusiasm and creativity
and energy and the very idea of 'shirking' would never enter her mind.
So - my answer to the original question is that it simply hasn't turned
out to be a problem in our real lives.
I think those kids who are required to do things all the time are
really, in a big way, being trained to try to shirk.-=-
I agree. If the mother says "DO" and the child wishes she hadn't, the only way the child wins the battle of wills is to NOT do. "That'll show her," and when he grows up he asserts his separateness by NOT doing.
Sandra
Angela S
I went to school and I had a friend that also went to school. We both had
part time jobs after school. I can remember back in high school that if she
felt like blowing off work, she just called in sick. I can remember way back
then thinking that was so wrong and that I could never do that. It wasn't
anything my parents said to me or made me do that gave me my work ethic. It
was their example. They always followed through on their commitments, be it
work, volunteering to do something, or just meeting friends. They were
always on-time, even with six kids. It was important to them and I picked
up on their attitude. Just the other day, we were going somewhere with my
parents and my dad said, "Let's go, I hate to be late." That was the first
time I had heard it put into words, that I noticed. I smiled and said,
"gee, I guess I know where I get that from then." :-)
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
part time jobs after school. I can remember back in high school that if she
felt like blowing off work, she just called in sick. I can remember way back
then thinking that was so wrong and that I could never do that. It wasn't
anything my parents said to me or made me do that gave me my work ethic. It
was their example. They always followed through on their commitments, be it
work, volunteering to do something, or just meeting friends. They were
always on-time, even with six kids. It was important to them and I picked
up on their attitude. Just the other day, we were going somewhere with my
parents and my dad said, "Let's go, I hate to be late." That was the first
time I had heard it put into words, that I noticed. I smiled and said,
"gee, I guess I know where I get that from then." :-)
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jwvastine
--- In [email protected], DACunefare@a... wrote:
encourage them to do it with joy and creativity, find their passion,
if you will, they will never be in the position of shirking. I
won't say they won't want to because I think we all at times
entertain thoughts of *shirking* something.
I work with many people who are in a job they have no passion for-it
just pays the bills and they spend most of the day trying to get out
of work. These people were *schooled* all their lives and have
college degrees. I know I learned many lessons on *getting out of
work* in school. Mostly because of the busywork aspect. Who needs
to do 5 pages of mulitiplication after you've completed the first
page correctly?
Very few people remain employed in the same job for their whole
working life. I've tried to let Sam &Joe know that whatever they
choose to do continue to learn and explore because you may change
your mind in 5yrs or 10 yrs and need something else to challenge
you. I am in a place in my life, at the age of 48, where I need to
find another avenue of employment. It may not be completely out of
my field but I can no longer continue to do the same job because my
joy and passion for it are dwindling. It's time to move on.
Judy
Keep an open mind, accept our limitations, await the evidence. Carl
Sagan
> **Are we not teaching our children by unschooling that they can dowhatever
> they want whenever they want and if someone says they must dosomething are we
> not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they won't do whatis required
> of them??**Maybe if we give our children the freedom to do things they love and
>
encourage them to do it with joy and creativity, find their passion,
if you will, they will never be in the position of shirking. I
won't say they won't want to because I think we all at times
entertain thoughts of *shirking* something.
I work with many people who are in a job they have no passion for-it
just pays the bills and they spend most of the day trying to get out
of work. These people were *schooled* all their lives and have
college degrees. I know I learned many lessons on *getting out of
work* in school. Mostly because of the busywork aspect. Who needs
to do 5 pages of mulitiplication after you've completed the first
page correctly?
>they can do whateverEver see the movie *Office Space*?
> they want whenever they want
Very few people remain employed in the same job for their whole
working life. I've tried to let Sam &Joe know that whatever they
choose to do continue to learn and explore because you may change
your mind in 5yrs or 10 yrs and need something else to challenge
you. I am in a place in my life, at the age of 48, where I need to
find another avenue of employment. It may not be completely out of
my field but I can no longer continue to do the same job because my
joy and passion for it are dwindling. It's time to move on.
Judy
Keep an open mind, accept our limitations, await the evidence. Carl
Sagan
Dawn Adams
>to lean her towards learning her times tables. I did not mention the words
> For example, today I asked my daughter to skip count with me in an effort
"school" nor "work" however she balked me the whole time and said she didn't
want to do it; she was tired; she was hungry (and we had just eaten lunch!).
In other words she didn't want to do it and therefore was not going to do it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.You didn't mention school or work but you were still asking her to do work.
You were still stepping in univited to teach. If she made a couple of
excuses it sort of implies that maybe you didn't accept her first 'no' or
didn't ask if it was something she wanted to do in the first place. If
you're thinking in terms of her having to learn the times tables you've got
some schoolish ideas working their way out. Multiplication is a basic thing
most kids will get, and not nessacarily by way of the times table.
If she just didn't want to do it, I think that's a good reason not to.
>I'm afraid my kids would say, "I don't feel like it." Life doesn't worklike that! Unfortunately life is not doing what you want whenever you want
all the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Life can work like that and I think it's simply (as if it's simple! :) ) a
matter of a shift in thinking. I don't do much because I 'have' to, I do
things because I choose too or want to. I could see the pile of dishes on
the counter as something I have to do and therefore a chore or I could see
it as something I choose to do or want to do because I enjoy having the next
morning free of dishwashing.
I'm not sure I'm making sense but it seems to me that the point of raising
your kids without the burden of 'having' to do stuff or teaching them that
some things 'need' to be done is to let them learn that everything can be
done with joy or at least without resentment and everything you do is a
concious choice. ANyhow, life is truly what you make it and you can make it
about choices or you can make it about chores. I think if you really throw
yourself into unschooling you'll find it's a great way to help your kids
(and yourself) learn that life is about choices.
Good luck!
Dawn (in NS)
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/10/2005 7:06:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
elisatauraso@... writes:
I am still exploring unschooling and am in the midst of reading all the
wonderful books that you all have suggested however I have a concern not yet
answered....
That's because it's not an unschooling issue---you're schooling!
"school" nor "work" however she balked me the whole time and said she didn't
want to do it;<<<<
Do you think she's so stupid that she wouldn't catch on to what you were
doing? You were doing "school" "work"---and she called you on it!
Smart girl.
the things required of her whether or not she likes it.<<<<
Ouch. Like touch Uncle Joe *there* because he said so?
are we not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they won't do what is
required of them?? <<<<<
I'm looking to have my children learn by unschooling that they can do
whatever they want whenever they want. I'm hoping that, when someone says they must
do something, they are strong enough to refuse if it makes them feel
uncomfortable or uneasy or immoral or wrong.
it." Life doesn't work like that!<<<<
For example, if they grow up and a boss says, "Sleeping with the boss is the
only way to make it in this business," I hope my kids would say, "Stick it
in your ear, you SOB!"
Life *should* work like that. Unfortunately many, many children learn very
young to do what people in control tell them to. They don't trust that inner
voice that says, "RUN!" They don't think, "Gee, raping and shooting civilians
really isn't the best way to wage war."
It *should* be doing what you choose to do whenever you choose to do it all
the time. It should be about making wise decisions because you're *thinking*
about all the possibilities and not just following orders.
I say you're not seeing clearly.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
elisatauraso@... writes:
I am still exploring unschooling and am in the midst of reading all the
wonderful books that you all have suggested however I have a concern not yet
answered....
That's because it's not an unschooling issue---you're schooling!
>>>>For example, today I asked my daughter to skip count with me in aneffort to lean her towards learning her times tables. I did not mention the words
"school" nor "work" however she balked me the whole time and said she didn't
want to do it;<<<<
Do you think she's so stupid that she wouldn't catch on to what you were
doing? You were doing "school" "work"---and she called you on it!
>>>>> she was tired; she was hungry (and we had just eaten lunch!). Inother words she didn't want to do it and therefore was not going to do it.<<<<
Smart girl.
>>>>>I lost my cool and did a bad Mom thing and told her she had to do itand that was that and that in life when she's a big girl sometimes she must do
the things required of her whether or not she likes it.<<<<
Ouch. Like touch Uncle Joe *there* because he said so?
>>>>>>Are we not teaching our children by unschooling that they can dowhatever they want whenever they want and if someone says they must do something
are we not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they won't do what is
required of them?? <<<<<
I'm looking to have my children learn by unschooling that they can do
whatever they want whenever they want. I'm hoping that, when someone says they must
do something, they are strong enough to refuse if it makes them feel
uncomfortable or uneasy or immoral or wrong.
>>>>>For example, if they grow up and their boss says, "have that report onmy desk tomorrow morning" I'm afraid my kids would say, "I don't feel like
it." Life doesn't work like that!<<<<
For example, if they grow up and a boss says, "Sleeping with the boss is the
only way to make it in this business," I hope my kids would say, "Stick it
in your ear, you SOB!"
Life *should* work like that. Unfortunately many, many children learn very
young to do what people in control tell them to. They don't trust that inner
voice that says, "RUN!" They don't think, "Gee, raping and shooting civilians
really isn't the best way to wage war."
>>>>Unfortunately life is not doing what you want whenever you want all thetime.<<<<
It *should* be doing what you choose to do whenever you choose to do it all
the time. It should be about making wise decisions because you're *thinking*
about all the possibilities and not just following orders.
>>>>>>>Am I not seeing this correctly or do you all have the same or similarconcerns??<<<<<<<
I say you're not seeing clearly.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharonjrt
Thank you, Kelly!
These are many of the reasons that Unschooling is best for my DD. I
have printed out your response and will give it to my DH to read on
his morning commute tomorrow, just to reinforce our commitment.
I want my DD to be able to make sound, informed judgements on all of
her decisions. I am confident that she will do so by not following
the same drummer as others do.
Sharon
These are many of the reasons that Unschooling is best for my DD. I
have printed out your response and will give it to my DH to read on
his morning commute tomorrow, just to reinforce our commitment.
I want my DD to be able to make sound, informed judgements on all of
her decisions. I am confident that she will do so by not following
the same drummer as others do.
Sharon
Elisa Tauraso
Wow, this was a little harsh. Comparing wether or not my daughter would submit to rape and sexual advances to if she would do what she needed in terms of filing a report on the job is hardly the same thing. One is severe and the other is not. I do trust that she is able to know right from wrong.
I guess I was looking for guidance on how to work thru these issues in my mine. This just tells me I'm a crappy Mom. Thanks alot. I'll stick to my unschooling books for guidance and not these posts. Chill out folks!
Elisa
I guess I was looking for guidance on how to work thru these issues in my mine. This just tells me I'm a crappy Mom. Thanks alot. I'll stick to my unschooling books for guidance and not these posts. Chill out folks!
Elisa
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 1:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] An Unschooling Philosophy Question/Concern
In a message dated 1/10/2005 7:06:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
elisatauraso@... writes:
I am still exploring unschooling and am in the midst of reading all the
wonderful books that you all have suggested however I have a concern not yet
answered....
That's because it's not an unschooling issue---you're schooling!
>>>>For example, today I asked my daughter to skip count with me in an
effort to lean her towards learning her times tables. I did not mention the words
"school" nor "work" however she balked me the whole time and said she didn't
want to do it;<<<<
Do you think she's so stupid that she wouldn't catch on to what you were
doing? You were doing "school" "work"---and she called you on it!
>>>>> she was tired; she was hungry (and we had just eaten lunch!). In
other words she didn't want to do it and therefore was not going to do it.<<<<
Smart girl.
>>>>>I lost my cool and did a bad Mom thing and told her she had to do it
and that was that and that in life when she's a big girl sometimes she must do
the things required of her whether or not she likes it.<<<<
Ouch. Like touch Uncle Joe *there* because he said so?
>>>>>>Are we not teaching our children by unschooling that they can do
whatever they want whenever they want and if someone says they must do something
are we not perhaps "crippling" them to the point where they won't do what is
required of them?? <<<<<
I'm looking to have my children learn by unschooling that they can do
whatever they want whenever they want. I'm hoping that, when someone says they must
do something, they are strong enough to refuse if it makes them feel
uncomfortable or uneasy or immoral or wrong.
>>>>>For example, if they grow up and their boss says, "have that report on
my desk tomorrow morning" I'm afraid my kids would say, "I don't feel like
it." Life doesn't work like that!<<<<
For example, if they grow up and a boss says, "Sleeping with the boss is the
only way to make it in this business," I hope my kids would say, "Stick it
in your ear, you SOB!"
Life *should* work like that. Unfortunately many, many children learn very
young to do what people in control tell them to. They don't trust that inner
voice that says, "RUN!" They don't think, "Gee, raping and shooting civilians
really isn't the best way to wage war."
>>>>Unfortunately life is not doing what you want whenever you want all the
time.<<<<
It *should* be doing what you choose to do whenever you choose to do it all
the time. It should be about making wise decisions because you're *thinking*
about all the possibilities and not just following orders.
>>>>>>>Am I not seeing this correctly or do you all have the same or similar
concerns??<<<<<<<
I say you're not seeing clearly.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/2005 6:45:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
elisatauraso@... writes:
Wow, this was a little harsh. Comparing wether or not my daughter would
submit to rape and sexual advances to if she would do what she needed in terms
of filing a report on the job is hardly the same thing. One is severe and
the other is not. I do trust that she is able to know right from wrong.
---------------------------
My friend Jerome was sexually molested by a priest, many times, starting
when he was seven years old. He had been told to do what adults told him, and
to ALWAYS obey the priests and nuns.
He thought he was doing right by doing what the priest said to do.
My son who is 18 has had a job for four and a half years, the same job.
Retail work in a gaming shop. He has twice refused to do something he thought
was wrong. Once it was to stock bumper stickers that were rudely anti-France,
right after the business with Iraq began. He said it wasn't right to put
those out, and he won the issue. He could have just done what he was told to
do.
My son who is 16 is never late to his newer job, and has brought work home
to do while watching videos. He is conscientious and responsible.
How could that be, if it's necessary to tell kids what to do so that they
will be good employees later? Without me "job training" my children, they are
good employees *now.*
Proof that one does not "have to" do X,Y&Z to ensure that children do well
at jobs is important information. Reminders that too much obedience and
orders-following can lead to disaster is just as important to remember.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
elisatauraso@... writes:
Wow, this was a little harsh. Comparing wether or not my daughter would
submit to rape and sexual advances to if she would do what she needed in terms
of filing a report on the job is hardly the same thing. One is severe and
the other is not. I do trust that she is able to know right from wrong.
---------------------------
My friend Jerome was sexually molested by a priest, many times, starting
when he was seven years old. He had been told to do what adults told him, and
to ALWAYS obey the priests and nuns.
He thought he was doing right by doing what the priest said to do.
My son who is 18 has had a job for four and a half years, the same job.
Retail work in a gaming shop. He has twice refused to do something he thought
was wrong. Once it was to stock bumper stickers that were rudely anti-France,
right after the business with Iraq began. He said it wasn't right to put
those out, and he won the issue. He could have just done what he was told to
do.
My son who is 16 is never late to his newer job, and has brought work home
to do while watching videos. He is conscientious and responsible.
How could that be, if it's necessary to tell kids what to do so that they
will be good employees later? Without me "job training" my children, they are
good employees *now.*
Proof that one does not "have to" do X,Y&Z to ensure that children do well
at jobs is important information. Reminders that too much obedience and
orders-following can lead to disaster is just as important to remember.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
>>>Wow, this was a little harsh. Comparing wether or not my daughter>>>>Keep in mind that we are discussing IDEAS. Take a step back and look at the concepts. Please don't take it as a personal attack. Nobody said "YOUR daughter will ... "
>>>>would submit to rape and sexual advances to if she would do what she needed in terms of filing a report on the job is hardly the same thing. One is severe and the other is not. I do trust that she is able to know right from wrong.>>>>>Perhaps an extreme example, but not an impossible one. Take a look at a daily newspaper and you'll find plenty of examples of people choosing wrong over right.
Many parents expect their children to respond to the parent's request with no hesitation and no questions asked, because the parent is the authority. They also instruct their children to OBEY other authority figures. How do these children learn WHEN it is OK to think for themselves?
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/2005 9:34:41 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
nellebelle@... writes:
Many parents expect their children to respond to the parent's request with
no hesitation and no questions asked, because the parent is the authority.
----------------
Yes, and like it or not, some of the mothers who helped create that
obedience find later that their children submitted in obedience to the sexual
advances of the father or stepfather or minister at church or a teacher.
Unthinking obedience is a dangerous thing, and not a gift to give a child.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle@... writes:
Many parents expect their children to respond to the parent's request with
no hesitation and no questions asked, because the parent is the authority.
----------------
Yes, and like it or not, some of the mothers who helped create that
obedience find later that their children submitted in obedience to the sexual
advances of the father or stepfather or minister at church or a teacher.
Unthinking obedience is a dangerous thing, and not a gift to give a child.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Jan 13, 2005, at 8:27 AM, nellebelle wrote:
something. It is a useful way to examine a situation - helps us to
think more clearly about concepts.
Examining how two things are different is also useful.
So - a more useful response would have been to show that you've
understood the point and then argue it, if you disagree.
For example (I don't even actually disagree with the point - but I can
still make a case for the other side just to illustrate what it might
look like - I mean, it isn't like I think there is NO merit to the
other side <G>):
Here's what you could have said:
*********
So, you're saying that if a kid learns that they should do things
whether they want to or not, if they learn to be obedient and follow
directions even when they don't want to do so, that they'll not be able
to use their judgment about doing what a boss says, in the future, and
they'll submit to their boss's orders to do things that are
inappropriate or wrong?
Submitting to sexual advances by a boss is very different than getting
a report done on command. I expect my child to know the difference
between doing things they just don't "feel like" doing versus doing
things that are outright wrong. I'm not saying kids should be taught
not to ever use their judgment, but that "I don't happen to feel like
it right now" isn't a ALWAYS necessarily a good reason not to do
something.
*************
>>>>> would submit to rape and sexual advances to if she would do whatExtending things to an extreme point is a way of seeing the essence of
>>>>> she needed in terms of filing a report on the job is hardly the
>>>>> same thing. One is severe and the other is not. I do trust that
>>>>> she is able to know right from wrong.>>>>>
>
> Perhaps an extreme example, but not an impossible one.
something. It is a useful way to examine a situation - helps us to
think more clearly about concepts.
Examining how two things are different is also useful.
So - a more useful response would have been to show that you've
understood the point and then argue it, if you disagree.
For example (I don't even actually disagree with the point - but I can
still make a case for the other side just to illustrate what it might
look like - I mean, it isn't like I think there is NO merit to the
other side <G>):
Here's what you could have said:
*********
So, you're saying that if a kid learns that they should do things
whether they want to or not, if they learn to be obedient and follow
directions even when they don't want to do so, that they'll not be able
to use their judgment about doing what a boss says, in the future, and
they'll submit to their boss's orders to do things that are
inappropriate or wrong?
Submitting to sexual advances by a boss is very different than getting
a report done on command. I expect my child to know the difference
between doing things they just don't "feel like" doing versus doing
things that are outright wrong. I'm not saying kids should be taught
not to ever use their judgment, but that "I don't happen to feel like
it right now" isn't a ALWAYS necessarily a good reason not to do
something.
*************
MomtoLJ
SandraDodd@... wrote:
book first. Great book, great movie.
Today we had a fire drill at school. Not a fire drill, I think there
wasa problem in the kitchen, we were out a very short time, and the
drill happened during passing period. It was very confusing and my
class (well, probably all classes) did not file out orderly, it was too
confusing. My students are supposed to go down one set of stairs to an
oustide door but the stairs go down further to the basement. Another
adult told them to keep going, and they did. They weren't supposed to,
they knew they were supposed to go out the first door but they all
listened to the adult even though the adult was wrong. We talked about
it afterwards, about blindly obeying, and how I want them to question
authority, even me, and to stand up for what they know is right. The
kids should have said NO, we go out this door. But they've been taught
to blindly obey. If this had been a real fire or emergency, it could
have been bad, I could have not known where some kids were, they should
have exited the building immediately and not gone further into it, etc.
etc.
Joylyn
>Ella Enchanted comse to mind, I just watched that movie, well read the
> Unthinking obedience is a dangerous thing, and not a gift to give a
> child.
book first. Great book, great movie.
Today we had a fire drill at school. Not a fire drill, I think there
wasa problem in the kitchen, we were out a very short time, and the
drill happened during passing period. It was very confusing and my
class (well, probably all classes) did not file out orderly, it was too
confusing. My students are supposed to go down one set of stairs to an
oustide door but the stairs go down further to the basement. Another
adult told them to keep going, and they did. They weren't supposed to,
they knew they were supposed to go out the first door but they all
listened to the adult even though the adult was wrong. We talked about
it afterwards, about blindly obeying, and how I want them to question
authority, even me, and to stand up for what they know is right. The
kids should have said NO, we go out this door. But they've been taught
to blindly obey. If this had been a real fire or emergency, it could
have been bad, I could have not known where some kids were, they should
have exited the building immediately and not gone further into it, etc.
etc.
Joylyn
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/14/2005 12:00:58 AM Central Standard Time,
joylyn1@... writes:
They weren't supposed to,
they knew they were supposed to go out the first door but they all
listened to the adult even though the adult was wrong.
~~~
That is just completely frightening.
Did anyone identify the other adult so the person could realize what they
could have caused?
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joylyn1@... writes:
They weren't supposed to,
they knew they were supposed to go out the first door but they all
listened to the adult even though the adult was wrong.
~~~
That is just completely frightening.
Did anyone identify the other adult so the person could realize what they
could have caused?
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/2005 11:00:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
joylyn1@... writes:
My students are supposed to go down one set of stairs to an
oustide door but the stairs go down further to the basement. Another
adult told them to keep going, and they did.
---------------------
I hope you talked to the other adult in no uncertain terms.
Sending kids to the basement of a flaming building would potentially be
prison-sentence stuff.
Seriously.
Maybe it should be put in writing and be the subject of discussion at the
next faculty meeting. I SO would not let that go by.
The fire-escape and fire-drill in this country is NOT new, and not optional.
That stuns me that the kids were hesitant (it's half a schoolyear in) and
that an adult was unsure.
But then maybe emergency exits are an easy thing for me, and I almost always
am aware of where they are, whatever kind of building I'm in.
That is a HECK of a good example of what teaching a child obedience can do,
though. If the kid is more afraid of disobeying an adult than of staying in
a burning building (theoretically burning or really burning), then that
obedience has become a life-threatening condition.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joylyn1@... writes:
My students are supposed to go down one set of stairs to an
oustide door but the stairs go down further to the basement. Another
adult told them to keep going, and they did.
---------------------
I hope you talked to the other adult in no uncertain terms.
Sending kids to the basement of a flaming building would potentially be
prison-sentence stuff.
Seriously.
Maybe it should be put in writing and be the subject of discussion at the
next faculty meeting. I SO would not let that go by.
The fire-escape and fire-drill in this country is NOT new, and not optional.
That stuns me that the kids were hesitant (it's half a schoolyear in) and
that an adult was unsure.
But then maybe emergency exits are an easy thing for me, and I almost always
am aware of where they are, whatever kind of building I'm in.
That is a HECK of a good example of what teaching a child obedience can do,
though. If the kid is more afraid of disobeying an adult than of staying in
a burning building (theoretically burning or really burning), then that
obedience has become a life-threatening condition.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jacqueline Parks
<<How could that be, if it's necessary to tell kids what to do so that they
will be good employees later? Without me "job training" my children, they are
good employees *now.*>>
My sixteen year old dd who was unschooled started working at a sub
shop last May when she was 15. She was rapidly promoted to full-time,
given a key over other long term workers after working there less than
a month although they had to bend a rule not letting workers under 18
have keys, and before the end of the summer was the main daytime shift
supervisor.
She started working so that she could save money to record a demo
album which she did. But she also has found that she really likes her
job and that she has a knack for business and management.
Last month, the owners called her in for a meeting and said that she
is a better worker, smarter, and has better ethics than any other
employee (they own 5 shops.) They want her to start on a manager
training track, and she is very excited about it. The funny thing is
relatives and friends keep going on and on about how she's not going
to college right now. She is only 16!!! She is having fun! She is
doing what she wants! And I certainly don't think that being
unschooled crippled her job skills in anyway. *g*
~Jacqueline who thought she'd throw her own success story into the mix
will be good employees later? Without me "job training" my children, they are
good employees *now.*>>
My sixteen year old dd who was unschooled started working at a sub
shop last May when she was 15. She was rapidly promoted to full-time,
given a key over other long term workers after working there less than
a month although they had to bend a rule not letting workers under 18
have keys, and before the end of the summer was the main daytime shift
supervisor.
She started working so that she could save money to record a demo
album which she did. But she also has found that she really likes her
job and that she has a knack for business and management.
Last month, the owners called her in for a meeting and said that she
is a better worker, smarter, and has better ethics than any other
employee (they own 5 shops.) They want her to start on a manager
training track, and she is very excited about it. The funny thing is
relatives and friends keep going on and on about how she's not going
to college right now. She is only 16!!! She is having fun! She is
doing what she wants! And I certainly don't think that being
unschooled crippled her job skills in anyway. *g*
~Jacqueline who thought she'd throw her own success story into the mix
[email protected]
I think that was a great success story. Thanks!
-=-The funny thing is
relatives and friends keep going on and on about how she's not going
to college right now. She is only 16!!! She is having fun! She is
doing what she wants! -=-
And this is not to suggest that I think this is as "far" as she could or
should go, but she's doing the kind of job adults with families do. It's a "kid
job" insofar as it's a job kids move in and out of pretty easily, but she is
not DOING a "kids' job." She's working at a management level at the age
other kids are having to quit because school started again.
Kirby and the gaming shop is kind of like that. Yeah, they try hard to keep
him under 20 hours a week, and he's only had two dinky raises in four and a
half years, but: he's the youngest employee, too. That means that every
other human working there (there are six others and the boss). A couple
(manager and owner) are working full time and I don't know what they make, but they
work where Kirby works and they have car payments and mortgage payments and
whatnot. It probably won't be Kirby's job for life, but there are people
there who are 30 and 40 years old.
They trust him with the whole store and all the money all the time. When
they're doing "remote" things (tournaments at hotels and such) they send him on
important errands. The first time I knew he had been entrusted with the
cash to get it off site, it was hundreds of dollars and he was 15 and not
driving yet. I picked him up and he told me what he had so I wouldn't throw it
away or anything, as it was in a crackers-and-cheese box.
Funky as it is, I see it as success. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-The funny thing is
relatives and friends keep going on and on about how she's not going
to college right now. She is only 16!!! She is having fun! She is
doing what she wants! -=-
And this is not to suggest that I think this is as "far" as she could or
should go, but she's doing the kind of job adults with families do. It's a "kid
job" insofar as it's a job kids move in and out of pretty easily, but she is
not DOING a "kids' job." She's working at a management level at the age
other kids are having to quit because school started again.
Kirby and the gaming shop is kind of like that. Yeah, they try hard to keep
him under 20 hours a week, and he's only had two dinky raises in four and a
half years, but: he's the youngest employee, too. That means that every
other human working there (there are six others and the boss). A couple
(manager and owner) are working full time and I don't know what they make, but they
work where Kirby works and they have car payments and mortgage payments and
whatnot. It probably won't be Kirby's job for life, but there are people
there who are 30 and 40 years old.
They trust him with the whole store and all the money all the time. When
they're doing "remote" things (tournaments at hotels and such) they send him on
important errands. The first time I knew he had been entrusted with the
cash to get it off site, it was hundreds of dollars and he was 15 and not
driving yet. I picked him up and he told me what he had so I wouldn't throw it
away or anything, as it was in a crackers-and-cheese box.
Funky as it is, I see it as success. <g>
Sandra
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soggyboysmom
Okay I know this is a little bit of an oldish thread but I'm just
getting to it. Anyhow, last night, my 6 1/2 yr old sat at the table
waiting his turn in a board game, merrily "skip counting" by twos
(2,4,6,8...) He got to 20 and said that was as high as he could go.
I said That's cool. You know, over 20 the numbers work the same as
regular counting even when you count by 2s. He paused a second, then
continued and stopped at 60 because it was his turn and that had
priority. We have never yet sat him down to "study" or "practice"
skip counting. When we play Shrek Monopoly Jr, he has seen us do it
because there are $2 bills in the game and when we add up who has
how much money we count 2,4,6,8... Right now his head is full of
numbers (by his report). 6 months ago it was full of something else
and 6 months from now it will be something else again.
I second what others have said about work responsibility - we really
do have a lot of choices as adults. You don't even HAVE TO pay
taxes - but there are consequences to that you might not like. You
don't HAVE TO obey speed limits, but there are consequences. You can
miss meetings and deadlines and you'll probably end up looking for
another job - but as an adult you can CHOOSE to go ahead and look
for something else, take an unemployment "vacation", seek out ways
to change careers, etc. A child, sitting across from a parent, being
told "You can't do x,y,z UNTIL you do this that I've determined" has
very few options and most of them come with undesirable consequences.
getting to it. Anyhow, last night, my 6 1/2 yr old sat at the table
waiting his turn in a board game, merrily "skip counting" by twos
(2,4,6,8...) He got to 20 and said that was as high as he could go.
I said That's cool. You know, over 20 the numbers work the same as
regular counting even when you count by 2s. He paused a second, then
continued and stopped at 60 because it was his turn and that had
priority. We have never yet sat him down to "study" or "practice"
skip counting. When we play Shrek Monopoly Jr, he has seen us do it
because there are $2 bills in the game and when we add up who has
how much money we count 2,4,6,8... Right now his head is full of
numbers (by his report). 6 months ago it was full of something else
and 6 months from now it will be something else again.
I second what others have said about work responsibility - we really
do have a lot of choices as adults. You don't even HAVE TO pay
taxes - but there are consequences to that you might not like. You
don't HAVE TO obey speed limits, but there are consequences. You can
miss meetings and deadlines and you'll probably end up looking for
another job - but as an adult you can CHOOSE to go ahead and look
for something else, take an unemployment "vacation", seek out ways
to change careers, etc. A child, sitting across from a parent, being
told "You can't do x,y,z UNTIL you do this that I've determined" has
very few options and most of them come with undesirable consequences.
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/16/05 7:55:41 AM, debra.rossing@... writes:
<< You don't HAVE TO obey speed limits, but there are consequences. >>
DOH!!!
I have a ticket to pay, sitting in the back room. Thanks for the reminder.
Friday night on the way home from the folk singing party, the week Cameron
was visiting. 50 in a 35. The guy called it 45 to be nice. Corrales, New
Mexico. Don't speed there. The village has little other source of income.
I could choose not to mail that in, but I could end up being arrested the
next time I'm stopped for anything, and that doesn't sound at ALL fun, so I am
going to choose to mail that in.
Sandra
<< You don't HAVE TO obey speed limits, but there are consequences. >>
DOH!!!
I have a ticket to pay, sitting in the back room. Thanks for the reminder.
Friday night on the way home from the folk singing party, the week Cameron
was visiting. 50 in a 35. The guy called it 45 to be nice. Corrales, New
Mexico. Don't speed there. The village has little other source of income.
I could choose not to mail that in, but I could end up being arrested the
next time I'm stopped for anything, and that doesn't sound at ALL fun, so I am
going to choose to mail that in.
Sandra