Music and strewing
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/4/05 9:31:32 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< I like the example of purposely having more music in the house because
a parent thinks exposure to music is important. When my kids were
little, I very consciously listened to different styles of music -
played music to which I would not normally have listened. And I took
the kids to concerts that I might not have chosen to attend if I had
not had children whose horizons I wanted to expand. This broadened my
own experience AND exposed my kids to a far wider variety of music, at
a young age, than would have happened just by accident. >>
We did that too. Still do.
Keith and I met in a madrigal group, and I took him to folksinging parties
and we listened to lots of records together (his had all been stolen so maybe he
only liked me for my record collection) and once spent our tax refund on a
"Kortholdt," a resin reproduction of a single museum-owned capped double-reed
Renaissance instrument.
But when Kirby came along, he and I LIKED singing together. He loved Sesame
Street. We would talk about musical styles, and by the time Marty came along
we had a game going to name the style of music on various rendition of the
ABCs, or other little Sesame Street songs. About the time Kirby was getting
sophisticated enough to consider between calypso and reggae, the game had run its
course.
The other day Marty was listening to something, and I thought maybe because
it was all new and modern it would have some nouveau modernistic style
designation. "What is this kind of music called, Marty?" I asked.
He looked at me for a long pause, as though trying to see if it was a trick
question, and said levelly, "Punk."
Oh! Punk. I know punk.
I just thought it was going to be something more particular, that I might've
missed out on.
He and Holly have been on a techno binge. Kirby has been listening to 70's
funk.
WEIRD, huh?
And I just realized a couple of days ago that off all my webpages, I had zip
about music. Maybe I'll add this. I started a page a couple of days ago, but
couldn't get the midi link to work from Kirby's computer, and stalled out.
It's
http://sandradodd.com/music
(tiny as it is at the moment)
and suggestions for things to put there would be cool!!!
Sandra
<< I like the example of purposely having more music in the house because
a parent thinks exposure to music is important. When my kids were
little, I very consciously listened to different styles of music -
played music to which I would not normally have listened. And I took
the kids to concerts that I might not have chosen to attend if I had
not had children whose horizons I wanted to expand. This broadened my
own experience AND exposed my kids to a far wider variety of music, at
a young age, than would have happened just by accident. >>
We did that too. Still do.
Keith and I met in a madrigal group, and I took him to folksinging parties
and we listened to lots of records together (his had all been stolen so maybe he
only liked me for my record collection) and once spent our tax refund on a
"Kortholdt," a resin reproduction of a single museum-owned capped double-reed
Renaissance instrument.
But when Kirby came along, he and I LIKED singing together. He loved Sesame
Street. We would talk about musical styles, and by the time Marty came along
we had a game going to name the style of music on various rendition of the
ABCs, or other little Sesame Street songs. About the time Kirby was getting
sophisticated enough to consider between calypso and reggae, the game had run its
course.
The other day Marty was listening to something, and I thought maybe because
it was all new and modern it would have some nouveau modernistic style
designation. "What is this kind of music called, Marty?" I asked.
He looked at me for a long pause, as though trying to see if it was a trick
question, and said levelly, "Punk."
Oh! Punk. I know punk.
I just thought it was going to be something more particular, that I might've
missed out on.
He and Holly have been on a techno binge. Kirby has been listening to 70's
funk.
WEIRD, huh?
And I just realized a couple of days ago that off all my webpages, I had zip
about music. Maybe I'll add this. I started a page a couple of days ago, but
couldn't get the midi link to work from Kirby's computer, and stalled out.
It's
http://sandradodd.com/music
(tiny as it is at the moment)
and suggestions for things to put there would be cool!!!
Sandra
TreeGoddess
Well, since you mention it . . .
Sandra, I've been wondering if you had rented any of the Devo DVDs from
Netflix when Holly was interested in them a month or so back (thread
was at unschooling.info).
I liked the 'hits' Devo had back in the day, but I never bought any of
their albums. Then when I was an older teen I knew this guy through my
(then) boyfriend who was *really* into Devo. I didn't like the guy
much and this experience left a bad taste in my mouth about Devo. When
DH and I first started dating I saw that he had some Devo videos and I
had a moment of panic. "What kind of guy IS he????" LOL I came to
really appreciate Devo and am really glad that I gave them a second
chance.
I'm interested in hearing about your forays into Devo-lution. ;)
-Tracy-
"Every moment spent in unhappiness is a moment of
happiness lost." -- Leo Buscaglia
Sandra, I've been wondering if you had rented any of the Devo DVDs from
Netflix when Holly was interested in them a month or so back (thread
was at unschooling.info).
I liked the 'hits' Devo had back in the day, but I never bought any of
their albums. Then when I was an older teen I knew this guy through my
(then) boyfriend who was *really* into Devo. I didn't like the guy
much and this experience left a bad taste in my mouth about Devo. When
DH and I first started dating I saw that he had some Devo videos and I
had a moment of panic. "What kind of guy IS he????" LOL I came to
really appreciate Devo and am really glad that I gave them a second
chance.
I'm interested in hearing about your forays into Devo-lution. ;)
-Tracy-
"Every moment spent in unhappiness is a moment of
happiness lost." -- Leo Buscaglia
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/4/05 10:32:45 AM, treegoddess@... writes:
<< Sandra, I've been wondering if you had rented any of the Devo DVDs from
Netflix when Holly was interested in them a month or so back (thread
was at unschooling.info). >>
We have one right now.
Keith has watched all, I watched some, Holly's asleep so I'm not sure yet,
but it's not mailed back yet.
She's been watching PeeWee's Playhouse, and on the wall where PeeWee's escape
scooter is in the closing scene there are lots of pictures stuck up
random-bulletin-board style. Right under George Washington is "J.R. 'Bob' Dobbs" of
the Church of the Subgenius. and near the front door is a photo (looks like a
framed autographed 8x10) of Andy Devine. We were talking about Andy's Gang and
the violin-playing cat the other day (she hasn't seen it, I was trying to
tell her), and I just got Marty a DVD of an old Roy Rogers movie called Deadwood
(in preparation for getting him the new series when it comes out on DVD soon)
and I think Andy Devine's in that.
The whole 50's interest of Pee Wee Herman and Weird Al (also a collector of
50s/60s memorabilia and old educational film strips and such) will tie in to
Devo stuff quite seamlessly, I think.
Music...
Roy Rogers sings. (Maybe not in this movie.)
The Andy Devine story was about animation and instruments.
Things don't have to have words and a tune to tie in to music!
Sandra
<< Sandra, I've been wondering if you had rented any of the Devo DVDs from
Netflix when Holly was interested in them a month or so back (thread
was at unschooling.info). >>
We have one right now.
Keith has watched all, I watched some, Holly's asleep so I'm not sure yet,
but it's not mailed back yet.
She's been watching PeeWee's Playhouse, and on the wall where PeeWee's escape
scooter is in the closing scene there are lots of pictures stuck up
random-bulletin-board style. Right under George Washington is "J.R. 'Bob' Dobbs" of
the Church of the Subgenius. and near the front door is a photo (looks like a
framed autographed 8x10) of Andy Devine. We were talking about Andy's Gang and
the violin-playing cat the other day (she hasn't seen it, I was trying to
tell her), and I just got Marty a DVD of an old Roy Rogers movie called Deadwood
(in preparation for getting him the new series when it comes out on DVD soon)
and I think Andy Devine's in that.
The whole 50's interest of Pee Wee Herman and Weird Al (also a collector of
50s/60s memorabilia and old educational film strips and such) will tie in to
Devo stuff quite seamlessly, I think.
Music...
Roy Rogers sings. (Maybe not in this movie.)
The Andy Devine story was about animation and instruments.
Things don't have to have words and a tune to tie in to music!
Sandra
Cally Brown
>But do you know punk? If my sons were either home or up I'd get them to
>
>The other day Marty was listening to something, and I thought maybe because
>it was all new and modern it would have some nouveau modernistic style
>designation. "What is this kind of music called, Marty?" I asked.
>
>He looked at me for a long pause, as though trying to see if it was a trick
>question, and said levelly, "Punk."
>
>Oh! Punk. I know punk.
>I just thought it was going to be something more particular, that I might've
>missed out on.
>
respond to this - I got very lost a while back in a lengthy explanation
of the difference between what we knew as punk and present day punk. As
someone who doesn't like either, it all went over my head even at the
time, and I've forgotten completely by now!
Cally
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/4/05 2:39:49 PM, mjcmbrwn@... writes:
<< But do you know punk? If my sons were either home or up I'd get them to
respond to this - I got very lost a while back in a lengthy explanation
of the difference between what we knew as punk and present day punk. As
someone who doesn't like either, it all went over my head even at the
time, and I've forgotten completely by now! >>
Well I had thought "punk," but then decided I was probably wrong. <g>
I know the difference between doo-wop and girl-group (and there's overlap),
but very few people care. <g> But I like those kind of discussions of where
something ends and something else begins.
Sandra
<< But do you know punk? If my sons were either home or up I'd get them to
respond to this - I got very lost a while back in a lengthy explanation
of the difference between what we knew as punk and present day punk. As
someone who doesn't like either, it all went over my head even at the
time, and I've forgotten completely by now! >>
Well I had thought "punk," but then decided I was probably wrong. <g>
I know the difference between doo-wop and girl-group (and there's overlap),
but very few people care. <g> But I like those kind of discussions of where
something ends and something else begins.
Sandra
[email protected]
Well here's one of those "let them take it or leave it."
Holly has decided to send Devo back without watching it and she'll catch them
later. Keith watched it and had fun, so it wasn't a total waste of
Netflix-jism.
Bummer for those who wanted to know her reaction. (I was one of them. <g>)
Sandra
Holly has decided to send Devo back without watching it and she'll catch them
later. Keith watched it and had fun, so it wasn't a total waste of
Netflix-jism.
Bummer for those who wanted to know her reaction. (I was one of them. <g>)
Sandra
Ren Allen
"But do you know punk? If my sons were either home or up I'd get
them to
respond to this - I got very lost a while back in a lengthy
explanation
of the difference between what we knew as punk and present day punk."
Weeelllll....
Punk was originally an anti-establishment movement. Isn't it sorta
the same thing today? An expression of angst and rebellion against
anything mainstream?
Hang out at Hot Topic for a while and you get a feel for it.:)
'Course, just the fact that there is a chain of stores for
punk/raver types, tells you that it's gone sorta mainstream. What a
dichotomy that is!!
Ren
them to
respond to this - I got very lost a while back in a lengthy
explanation
of the difference between what we knew as punk and present day punk."
Weeelllll....
Punk was originally an anti-establishment movement. Isn't it sorta
the same thing today? An expression of angst and rebellion against
anything mainstream?
Hang out at Hot Topic for a while and you get a feel for it.:)
'Course, just the fact that there is a chain of stores for
punk/raver types, tells you that it's gone sorta mainstream. What a
dichotomy that is!!
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/4/2005 8:55:15 PM Central Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
Weeelllll....
Punk was originally an anti-establishment movement. Isn't it sorta
the same thing today? An expression of angst and rebellion against
anything mainstream?
Hang out at Hot Topic for a while and you get a feel for it.:)
'Course, just the fact that there is a chain of stores for
punk/raver types, tells you that it's gone sorta mainstream. What a
dichotomy that is!!
~~~
I got Will a jacket for xmas that has a skull on the back and studs on the
shoulders. It's black, of course. He was kind of shocked when he opened
it--he thought it was a little beyond what I would just buy for him without him
asking--too punk, he said. I knew that would be his reaction, but I knew he'd
like it, too.
I remember thinking when I bought it, "How punk can it be if I found it on
the clearance rack at Wal-Mart?"
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
Weeelllll....
Punk was originally an anti-establishment movement. Isn't it sorta
the same thing today? An expression of angst and rebellion against
anything mainstream?
Hang out at Hot Topic for a while and you get a feel for it.:)
'Course, just the fact that there is a chain of stores for
punk/raver types, tells you that it's gone sorta mainstream. What a
dichotomy that is!!
~~~
I got Will a jacket for xmas that has a skull on the back and studs on the
shoulders. It's black, of course. He was kind of shocked when he opened
it--he thought it was a little beyond what I would just buy for him without him
asking--too punk, he said. I knew that would be his reaction, but I knew he'd
like it, too.
I remember thinking when I bought it, "How punk can it be if I found it on
the clearance rack at Wal-Mart?"
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenneferh2000
Really?
Punk was/is a '70s British thang-
The Who, Sex Pistols, The Ramones. Ring a bell? I think David Bowie
may have even gone through a punk phase, before the glam rock. But I
could be confused.
Author: Graham Greene writes a lot of stuff that is characterized
as 'punk'. Destruction. Rebellion against anything authoritarian.
Parents, school, cops, laws, rules, fashion. Anarchy! Violence for
the sake of violence. These were the kids who first rode around on
those little mopeds. I think they were first called teddies, wearing
tight suits with thin black ties and slicked back hair that went into
a duck tail fashion in back. Then came the ripped clothes, black
leather and safety pins- stuck through the cheek, no less! Oh yeah,
and mohawks, of course!
Time to rent Sid and Nancy again!
I don't think anything after the late '80s could REALLY be classified
as true punk, but stuff that would be considered 'modern punk' would
be stuff like Screeching Weasel, Suicidal Tendencies...uh...maybe
Butthole Surfers?? Well, it's been a long time. Now I mostly listen
to Raffi and Peter, Paul and Mary. Ha,ha!
-Jennefer
Who took a fun Poetry and Punks course in college.
And, who blurrily hung out with a lot of punks in college before I
got turned on to The Grateful Dead.
Punk was/is a '70s British thang-
The Who, Sex Pistols, The Ramones. Ring a bell? I think David Bowie
may have even gone through a punk phase, before the glam rock. But I
could be confused.
Author: Graham Greene writes a lot of stuff that is characterized
as 'punk'. Destruction. Rebellion against anything authoritarian.
Parents, school, cops, laws, rules, fashion. Anarchy! Violence for
the sake of violence. These were the kids who first rode around on
those little mopeds. I think they were first called teddies, wearing
tight suits with thin black ties and slicked back hair that went into
a duck tail fashion in back. Then came the ripped clothes, black
leather and safety pins- stuck through the cheek, no less! Oh yeah,
and mohawks, of course!
Time to rent Sid and Nancy again!
I don't think anything after the late '80s could REALLY be classified
as true punk, but stuff that would be considered 'modern punk' would
be stuff like Screeching Weasel, Suicidal Tendencies...uh...maybe
Butthole Surfers?? Well, it's been a long time. Now I mostly listen
to Raffi and Peter, Paul and Mary. Ha,ha!
-Jennefer
Who took a fun Poetry and Punks course in college.
And, who blurrily hung out with a lot of punks in college before I
got turned on to The Grateful Dead.
> Weeelllll....
> Punk was originally an anti-establishment movement. Isn't it sorta
> the same thing today? An expression of angst and rebellion against
> anything mainstream?
julie w
If only I could get ds to not yell "they suck" when the Ramones come on
my play list.
Green Day is quasi-punk and The Clash were punk or maybe a more
NewWavePunk. I always have enjoyed the more irish-punk bands like The
Pogues (Joe Strummer filled in with them for awhile and my fav. Irish
singer Kristy MacColl sang with them ~sad~ both are deceased now) and
Flogging Molly.
Dropkick Muphy's outa Boston is good for some nice irish-punk.....and
they have cool t's you can buy from Hot Topic.
But "real punk" is long gone.
Saw a kid with a "Sid and Nancy" t on the other day, now that made me
feel old.
Julie W in AR
jenneferh2000 wrote:
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Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my play list.
Green Day is quasi-punk and The Clash were punk or maybe a more
NewWavePunk. I always have enjoyed the more irish-punk bands like The
Pogues (Joe Strummer filled in with them for awhile and my fav. Irish
singer Kristy MacColl sang with them ~sad~ both are deceased now) and
Flogging Molly.
Dropkick Muphy's outa Boston is good for some nice irish-punk.....and
they have cool t's you can buy from Hot Topic.
But "real punk" is long gone.
Saw a kid with a "Sid and Nancy" t on the other day, now that made me
feel old.
Julie W in AR
jenneferh2000 wrote:
>----------
> Really?
>
> Punk was/is a '70s British thang-
> The Who, Sex Pistols, The Ramones. Ring a bell? I think David Bowie
> may have even gone through a punk phase, before the glam rock. But I
> could be confused.
> Author: Graham Greene writes a lot of stuff that is characterized
> as 'punk'. Destruction. Rebellion against anything authoritarian.
> Parents, school, cops, laws, rules, fashion. Anarchy! Violence for
> the sake of violence. These were the kids who first rode around on
> those little mopeds. I think they were first called teddies, wearing
> tight suits with thin black ties and slicked back hair that went into
> a duck tail fashion in back. Then came the ripped clothes, black
> leather and safety pins- stuck through the cheek, no less! Oh yeah,
> and mohawks, of course!
>
> Time to rent Sid and Nancy again!
>
> I don't think anything after the late '80s could REALLY be classified
> as true punk, but stuff that would be considered 'modern punk' would
> be stuff like Screeching Weasel, Suicidal Tendencies...uh...maybe
> Butthole Surfers?? Well, it's been a long time. Now I mostly listen
> to Raffi and Peter, Paul and Mary. Ha,ha!
>
> -Jennefer
> Who took a fun Poetry and Punks course in college.
> And, who blurrily hung out with a lot of punks in college before I
> got turned on to The Grateful Dead.
>
> > Weeelllll....
> > Punk was originally an anti-establishment movement. Isn't it sorta
> > the same thing today? An expression of angst and rebellion against
> > anything mainstream?
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Fetteroll
on 1/5/05 12:33 AM, jenneferh2000 at jenneferh2000@... wrote:
Sex Pistols, yes. Velvet Underground. New York Dolls. (Iggy Pop and the
Stooges was mentioned on a couple of pages and Iggy had a connection to
Bowie.)
Here's a bit that matches what I absorbed about punk.
http://mt.essortment.com/punkrockhistor_rapl.htm
The history of Punk rock music and what it meant, both musically and
socially.
Like any musical genre, it's hard to pinpoint that time and place where it
actually began. But unlike any other musical genre, Punk rock was started as
a deliberate reaction to the mass commercialism of music. In the year 2000,
it's common to see someone "being A punk," rather than seeing someone "be
punk."
In the late 60's and early 70's, the music industry rang eerily familiar in
its method of promoting trends over music. The public was being spoon-fed
music that corporations simply intended to make a profit from. The backlash
to this came to be known internationally as Punk rock.
New York, early 1970's. Young, virtually unknown artists like Patti Smith,
the Velvet Underground, and the Dolls of New York(changed later to New York
Dolls) brought about a new style of "alternative-bohemian" entertainment,
rooted in a "do-it-yourself" attitude. Short, frenetic songs, aggressive,
sometimes confrontational stage presence, and angry messages against
consumerism hit the stages at venues like New York's CBGB's, starting the
movement that would be known as punk rock.
Bands like the Ramones and the Talking Heads would evolve out of the punk
rock movement, and become influences for those who shared a similar distaste
in what was occurring in the music industry. Some say the underlying roots
of punk was the frustration and anger from being treated as sheep, while
others say punk stemmed from the "politics of boredom." It was both.
Malcolm McLaren has an indelible role in the history of punk rock, either
beloved or hated for his managerial skills. In February of 1975, the New
York Dolls, once a forerunner in punk, tried to revive a lagging career by
hiring McLaren as their new manager. Understanding the value of shock,
McLaren took the band and reintroduced them as born again communists. They
draped themselves in communist flags and said catchy phrases like "better
red than dead."
Unfortunately for the band, they continued to fail.
Fortunately for McLaren, they continued to fail.
After his attempt with the New York Dolls, McLaren relocated to England and
teamed up with his friend Bernie Rhodes. The two nurtured a band that was
arguably their greatest success, the Sex Pistols. McLaren and the Pistols
adopted an anarchistic view of the world that made them instaneous
celebrities. With spiked hair, tattered clothes, and safety pins as jewelry,
they frequented talk shows and publicly badmouthed fellow artists, bands,
and musicians. They spoke harshly of the British class system and the
subjugation of the working class. They made news for concert violence and
fighting with fans. The Sex Pistols were also as notorious for their
brashness as they were for their inability to play their instruments.
Their shock value not only brought them fame, but made them the single most
recognizable punk band. Therefore, many believed that punk rock began with
the Pistols, while others believed it made punk into a novelty and signified
the beginning of the end.
Despite the internal turmoil in the punk movement, punk rock made several
things clear to international audiences. Punk Rock, in its subculture,
managed to break down many barriers of expression and language. It made an
indentation in the commericial music industry. It provided a fresh
alternative to a boring, stagnant music scene.
But most of all, punk's legacy lies in its introduction of self employment
and activism. It illustrated that anyone can do it themself, without
reliance on the commercial media or the luxury of having financial
abundance. Against the backdrop of mass consumer conformity, the punk rock
movement made a statement of individuality that was heard worldwide.
> Punk was/is a '70s British thang-The Who and Bowie punk?
> The Who, Sex Pistols, The Ramones. Ring a bell? I think David Bowie
> may have even gone through a punk phase, before the glam rock. But I
> could be confused.
Sex Pistols, yes. Velvet Underground. New York Dolls. (Iggy Pop and the
Stooges was mentioned on a couple of pages and Iggy had a connection to
Bowie.)
Here's a bit that matches what I absorbed about punk.
http://mt.essortment.com/punkrockhistor_rapl.htm
The history of Punk rock music and what it meant, both musically and
socially.
Like any musical genre, it's hard to pinpoint that time and place where it
actually began. But unlike any other musical genre, Punk rock was started as
a deliberate reaction to the mass commercialism of music. In the year 2000,
it's common to see someone "being A punk," rather than seeing someone "be
punk."
In the late 60's and early 70's, the music industry rang eerily familiar in
its method of promoting trends over music. The public was being spoon-fed
music that corporations simply intended to make a profit from. The backlash
to this came to be known internationally as Punk rock.
New York, early 1970's. Young, virtually unknown artists like Patti Smith,
the Velvet Underground, and the Dolls of New York(changed later to New York
Dolls) brought about a new style of "alternative-bohemian" entertainment,
rooted in a "do-it-yourself" attitude. Short, frenetic songs, aggressive,
sometimes confrontational stage presence, and angry messages against
consumerism hit the stages at venues like New York's CBGB's, starting the
movement that would be known as punk rock.
Bands like the Ramones and the Talking Heads would evolve out of the punk
rock movement, and become influences for those who shared a similar distaste
in what was occurring in the music industry. Some say the underlying roots
of punk was the frustration and anger from being treated as sheep, while
others say punk stemmed from the "politics of boredom." It was both.
Malcolm McLaren has an indelible role in the history of punk rock, either
beloved or hated for his managerial skills. In February of 1975, the New
York Dolls, once a forerunner in punk, tried to revive a lagging career by
hiring McLaren as their new manager. Understanding the value of shock,
McLaren took the band and reintroduced them as born again communists. They
draped themselves in communist flags and said catchy phrases like "better
red than dead."
Unfortunately for the band, they continued to fail.
Fortunately for McLaren, they continued to fail.
After his attempt with the New York Dolls, McLaren relocated to England and
teamed up with his friend Bernie Rhodes. The two nurtured a band that was
arguably their greatest success, the Sex Pistols. McLaren and the Pistols
adopted an anarchistic view of the world that made them instaneous
celebrities. With spiked hair, tattered clothes, and safety pins as jewelry,
they frequented talk shows and publicly badmouthed fellow artists, bands,
and musicians. They spoke harshly of the British class system and the
subjugation of the working class. They made news for concert violence and
fighting with fans. The Sex Pistols were also as notorious for their
brashness as they were for their inability to play their instruments.
Their shock value not only brought them fame, but made them the single most
recognizable punk band. Therefore, many believed that punk rock began with
the Pistols, while others believed it made punk into a novelty and signified
the beginning of the end.
Despite the internal turmoil in the punk movement, punk rock made several
things clear to international audiences. Punk Rock, in its subculture,
managed to break down many barriers of expression and language. It made an
indentation in the commericial music industry. It provided a fresh
alternative to a boring, stagnant music scene.
But most of all, punk's legacy lies in its introduction of self employment
and activism. It illustrated that anyone can do it themself, without
reliance on the commercial media or the luxury of having financial
abundance. Against the backdrop of mass consumer conformity, the punk rock
movement made a statement of individuality that was heard worldwide.
TreeGoddess
On Jan 5, 2005, at 12:33 AM, jenneferh2000 wrote:
-=-I think they were first called teddies, wearing tight
suits with thin black ties and slicked back hair that went
into a duck tail fashion in back.-=-
And that style of dress along with the label "Teddy Boys" goes back (at
least) to the late 50's and early 60's in England. George Harrison was
a teddy boy before The Beatles were known as The Beatles. He was
considered pretty outrageous in his mode of fashion because of his
"drainies" or "drainpipe trousers" -- the tight pants that tapered all
the way down his leg.
-Tracy-
"Every moment spent in unhappiness is a moment of
happiness lost." -- Leo Buscaglia
Ren Allen
"Destruction. Rebellion against anything authoritarian.
Parents, school, cops, laws, rules, fashion."
Isn't that saying the same thing as "anti-establishment movement"?
Ren
Parents, school, cops, laws, rules, fashion."
Isn't that saying the same thing as "anti-establishment movement"?
Ren
[email protected]
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 05:25:43 -0500 Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
writes:
as theme music.
here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4206764
David Johansen was interviewed, and he talked about the old days as well
as the Dolls' new CD/DVD, "The Return of the New York Dolls".
Dar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
>Don't think so... but I like how all the CSI shows have songs by The Who
> The Who and Bowie punk?
as theme music.
>Oh! There was a story on the Dolls on NPR last month - you can hear it
> Sex Pistols, yes. Velvet Underground. New York Dolls.
here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4206764
David Johansen was interviewed, and he talked about the old days as well
as the Dolls' new CD/DVD, "The Return of the New York Dolls".
Dar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lorrie Shenenberger
Thanks for the link for the Dolls....they are my all time fave punk band. I
agree the Who and Bowie were never punk. Bowie was glam rock but never punk.
I loved the obscure bands like Ian Drury and the Blockheads and even
though Elvis Costello never considered himself punk, but I did and I loved
his old stuff.
Lorrie
"Have a Blessed, Healthy New Year!!!!"
"Find the good and praise it". Alex Haley
-------Original Message-------
From: freeform@...
Date: 01/05/05 13:44:00
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Punk was: Re: Music and strewing
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 05:25:43 -0500 Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
writes:
as theme music.
here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4206764
David Johansen was interviewed, and he talked about the old days as well
as the Dolls' new CD/DVD, "The Return of the New York Dolls".
Dar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
agree the Who and Bowie were never punk. Bowie was glam rock but never punk.
I loved the obscure bands like Ian Drury and the Blockheads and even
though Elvis Costello never considered himself punk, but I did and I loved
his old stuff.
Lorrie
"Have a Blessed, Healthy New Year!!!!"
"Find the good and praise it". Alex Haley
-------Original Message-------
From: freeform@...
Date: 01/05/05 13:44:00
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Punk was: Re: Music and strewing
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 05:25:43 -0500 Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
writes:
>Don't think so... but I like how all the CSI shows have songs by The Who
> The Who and Bowie punk?
as theme music.
>Oh! There was a story on the Dolls on NPR last month - you can hear it
> Sex Pistols, yes. Velvet Underground. New York Dolls.
here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4206764
David Johansen was interviewed, and he talked about the old days as well
as the Dolls' new CD/DVD, "The Return of the New York Dolls".
Dar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Give underprivileged students the materials they need to learn.
Bring education to life by funding a specific classroom project.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/LZzaMD/_WnJAA/HwKMAA/0xXolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenneferh2000
My partner does a Celtic Music radio show, and I came across this
2004 CD in his collection that might be of interest to some:
Shite 'n' Onions volume 1
"An international compilation- 22 tracks of the best shite from 15
up -and-coming Celtic/Punk bands"
www.ShiteNOnions.com
www.Omnium.com
...it's pretty entertaining...
;-)
Jennefer
--- In [email protected], julie w
<jjjwoolfolk@s...> wrote:
2004 CD in his collection that might be of interest to some:
Shite 'n' Onions volume 1
"An international compilation- 22 tracks of the best shite from 15
up -and-coming Celtic/Punk bands"
www.ShiteNOnions.com
www.Omnium.com
...it's pretty entertaining...
;-)
Jennefer
--- In [email protected], julie w
<jjjwoolfolk@s...> wrote:
> I always have enjoyed the more irish-punk bands
jenneferh2000
> The Who and Bowie punk?I guess, technically they were pre-punk but definately influenced the
punk scene. Here's an interesting site that lists various bands and
how they fit into the punk history's timeline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock
I always think of The Who when I think of punk history- mostly due to
their Quadrophenia album and movie. Although it is about the 'mod'
and 'rockers' clash, I feel like this album and movie really made way
for the punk movement. The Who really seemed quite 'punk' compared
to what was going on in their day. Pete Townsend was the first to
really smash his guitar and destroy instruments on stage. They were
LOUD and went around destroying hotel rooms and driving cars into
swimming pools when that wasn't the 'norm' for music bands.
Interestingly enough, they also 'discovered' Jimi Hendrix and gave
Led Zeppelin their band name.
Here's something interesting I found written about Quadrophenia:
Quadrophenia - The Story
An Introduction by Marc Leaman
Quadrophenia... the ultimate Who album. The album in which all that
has gone before comes together into one perfect package. The
definitive Rock album, although perhaps not the definitive Who
albumyet still the most "Who" of any Who album. QUAD was the only
Pete Townshend production for his band, which may be the reason for
this. Or perhaps it was one of those elusive moments in Art when many
elements come together and a higher level is achieved. In any case,
it might be questioned but never dismissed that the essence of Rock
music was better defined than within these 82 minutes. Unlike
Townshendís earlier work, TOMMY (a fantasy which reflected the
yearning for but ultimate rejection of spiritual enlightenment by the
populous), QUAD is almost stark in its realism. In a brilliant
display of songwriting prowess, both the story and the music of QUAD
are multi-leveled and complex. On the surface it is merely the story
of James Michael Cooper, Mod. With him comes his psychological
problem, that being a four way split personality (designed to reflect
the four members of The Who, mislabeled Quadrophenia in reference to
Schizophrenia). Jimmy is supposed to be four people: a tough guy, a
romantic, a lunatic, and a hypocrite. Sometimes one could just as
easily be another, and like real life there's no real pattern, so in
the end it seems a writing tool never completely utilized by
Townshend.
Jimmy is a member of the Mod scene, and (like most teenagers) he's
desperately attempting to fit in. And failing, despite being an
advocate and devoted follower of Mod-consciousness. That's on the
surface. Embedded within this story, one can find the adolescent
angst common to us all. As usual, Townshend was speaking for his
generation. Jimmy is a typical frustrated teenager (if such a being
can be said to exist), bound to find THE ANSWERS yet unable to see
how. Envying the guys who seem to have figured it out, not realizing
they are no wiser than he. Desiring the girls he cannot approach, not
yet aware their needs are different yet no less compelling than his
own. Wanting to be accepted as an adult, while in the core of his
being he knows that he isn't really prepared. QUAD captures this
dilemma so perfectly that it could serve as a primer to help any teen
get through adolescence.
Let's take the story itself step by step. "The story is set on a rock
in the middle of a stormy sea." So Townshend said at Largo, Maryland
(or was it Philadelphia?) for the opening of this story. Jimmy is
sitting on this rock in the bay, with rain pouring on him, reflecting
on his woes to date. The album opens with the crashing of waves
against the rock, in the theme of Helpless Dancer. "Is it me, for a
moment?" "Bell boy" "Love reign o'er me." Jimmy, feeling tortured by
it all, screams in agony: "Can you see the real me, can ya? Can YA?"
The Real Me kicks in as Jim angrily recounts his attempts to be
understood. He recalls the sessions with his psychiatrist, where
Jimmy doesn't feel he's getting through. The psychiatrist: "never
betrays what he thinks." Frustrated, he turns to his mother, but
unfortunately she can only offer: "I know how it feels, son/Cause it
runs in the family." No help there. With wonderful imagery, the song
shows how the frustration takes Jimmy's consciousness to a higher
level (as on an acid trip): "The cracks between the paving
stones/Like rivers of flowing veins." Jim notes that even those in
the neighborhood he knows are really strangers to him "peeping behind
from every windowpane." He has lost his girl and cannot figure out
why. His life is turning to shit, and no one can understand him. He
fells alienated and alone.
So Jimmy turns at last to a holy man, although so bitter now that
he's "full of lies and hate." The preacher, used to less volatile
situations, is frightened but doesn't really understand. So he does
his best to show Jim the path as he sees it, not able to grasp the
strength of the forces at work within Jimmyís skull. It's not enough
for Jim, and he rejects it ending with the same frustrations,
intensified. The four personalities then grip him, one by one.
Musically, this is shown by each theme in the song Quadrophenia. They
rage through him, and in the end Jimmy is left weakened and
reflective.
The boy feels he needs a direction. Jim thinks that being a Mod can
save him; can solve his problems. Even in a less spiritual work,
Townshend cannot escape the humanís basic drive for spirituality. Mod
is Jimmyís religion, his buffer from the harsh reality of a life he
doesnít quite understand. He tires to rationalize his behavior and
lifestyle to himself, alternately justifying the lifestyle ("Why
should I care/If I have to cut my hair/I've got to move with the
fashion/Or be outcast.") and declaring his belief in the truth of it
("I'm out on the street again/And I'm leaping along/Dressed right/For
a beach fight") but is still honest enough to feel itís not doing
what he needs it to ("but I just can't explain/Why that uncertain
feeling/Is still here in my brain"). Here we also see how rejected
and separated he feels even form his Mod pals ("Why do I have to be
the same old row again and again/Why do I have to move with a
crowd/Of kids that hardly notice I'm around/I work myself to death
just to fit in"). Even Modism isn't perfect, but it's all he's got.
His goal becomes being the perfect Mod. This will be his salvation.
So, in search of the relief he so desperately needs, he goes to see a
top Mod band at a live show (The Who, of course). It's not long
before he realizes they are no more than a reflection of their
audience ("You declared you were three inches taller/You only became
what we made you"). The band admits to this ("No surprise/I told
lies/ I'm the punk in the gutter") and tries to convey a feeling of
vision ("And yet I've lived your future out/By pounding stages like a
clown"). But Jimmy needs real heroes; someone he can look up to.
Someone who has successfully dealt with the problems he faces. And so
this is just another letdown for him. He returns home to find himself
thrown out, because his mother had found drugs (leapers) in his room.
Alone, he still finds the strength within himself and the idea of Mod
all he has "discovered" is that these particular people aren't up to
his standard. So while he admits that he's got problems ("I'm a
loser/No chance to win"), he also has what it takes to overcome them
("You'll all see/I'm the one"). Jimmy gets a job as a dustman. High
on self-declarations, he maintains "Things are changing/I'm not going
to sit and weep again" and "Just like a child/I've been seeing only
dreams/I'm all mixed up but I know I'm right" After two days of this
dirty and nonfulfilling work, Jim quits his job. His answer lies
elsewhere.
Again thrown into depression, he rages against life ("And when your
soul tells you to hide/Your very right to die's denied/And when a man
is trying to change/It only causes further pain"). Like any other
teen, Jimmy is looking for the fairness in life, and not finding any
("And you get beaten up by blacks/Who though they work still got the
sack..."). In the end, he can find only one solution: giving up ("You
realize that all along/Something in us is going wrong/You stop
dancing."). And that's no solution at all. Jim begins to feel once
more that the problem lies within him ("I try to number those who
love me/And find exactly what the problem is/Is it in my head/Or in
my heart"). The evidence seems to point in that direction
("Statements to a stranger/Just asking for directions/Turns from
being help/To being questions"); he can't interact with anyone around
him. It must be his fault.
Searching for what seems an impossible solution, Jimmy rides out in
his GS scooter. He is still declaring his Modism ("My jacket's gonna
be cut slim and checked/Maybe a touch of seersucker with an open
neck"), striving to be a perfect Mod. Then Jimmy sees the girl he
loves with his best friend, which seems to be the final straw, and is
upset enough to crash the bike. He can only reject everything ("I've
had enough of living"), because it's all been taken away form him
anyway. Even the Modism he knows appears corrupt ("I've had enough of
dancehalls/I've had enough of pills/I've finished with the
fashion/And acting like I'm tough/I've bored with hate and
passion/I've had enough of trying to love").
Jim has lost everything he loved. This is the low point in his life.
And yet, though depressed and frustrated, he still clings to the
belief that Mod can save him. It's all he has left and he must find
an uncorrupted group of true believers, so he will at last find the
people with which to fit in. Other, perfect Modsso he gets pilled up
and takes the train to Brighton, where he remembers everything as
being perfectly Mod.
The leapers take him into a surreal mental state, and the whole
journey is one long observational trip (ìGirls of fifteen/Sexually
knowing/The ushers are sniffing/Eau-de-cologning/The seats are
seductive/Celibate sitting/Pretty girls digging/Prettier women").
There is no action, just images filtered through a pill-induced haze
("Magically bored/On a quiet street corner/Free frustration/in our
minds and our toes/Quiet storm water/My generation/Uppers and
downers/Either way blood flows").
Upon arriving, he finds the seaside rather less than perfectly Mod
this time. There are no other Mods around, and here Jim is just as
lonely as at home. So he goes down to the beach (Here by the sea and
sand/Nothing ever goes as planned) He recalls the "good old days"
when things were the way they should be ("I am the face/She has to
know me/I'm dressed up better than anyone one within a mile"), moans
about his situation ("So how come the other tickets look much
better/Without a penny to spend/They dress to the letter"), and
thinks evil thoughts about his former girlfriend and girls in general
("How come the girls come on oh so cool/And when you meet them/Every
one's a fool"). (Note: At this point, the story becomes a bit
disjointed. The proper sequence, as the photos show in the booklet,
has Jimmy seeing the Bell Boy and then stealing the boat. Song-wise,
it's the other way aroundwhich makes no sense; how could Jim meet the
Bell Boy after getting stuck on the rock? So I'm going to report it
in the correct sequence, or at least the sequence I see as correct.)
Then, for the final time, Jimmy's heroes are dashed to pieces.
The "Ace Face" Mod he remembers from his last visit is now seen as a
lowly Bell Boy. Instead of the swaggering Mod leader ("Ain't you the
guy that used to set the paces/Riding up ion front of a hundred
faces"), we have a bowing-and-scraping fellow, trying to justify it
all ("I've got a good job/And I'm newly born/You should see me
dressed up/In my uniform) to his former admirer. But as always,
reality sets in (ìBell boy!/Gotta get running now/Keep me lip
buttoned down/Carry this baggage out/Always running at someoneís
heel). Jim has now, truly, had enough. Everything he believed in, all
of the people he has looked to for leadership or help, has let him
down. Even Modism has let him down. It was a pale mockery of what he
wanted, or needed, (really what he thought it was) and was never any
solutions there.
Nothing there to save him which wasn't found within himself. He gets
a bottle of Gin and begins to rage ("Laugh and say I'm green/I've
seen things you've never seen/I'll take on anyone/Ain't scared of a
bloody nose/Drink till I drop down"). Every weakness he sees (and
hates) in himself, he now denies. Every cruel and ugly behavior he
can think of, all of the things he wants to do but cannot, he claims
as his own ("You say she's a virgin/Well I'm gonna be the first
in/Her fella's gonna kill me/Oh, fucking will he"). He does, at
least, realize that he has unleashed the beast within himself ("He
only comes out when I drink my gin"), but this is a time for the
beast because there's nothing left for any other in the life he has
rejected. Coupled with this are flashes of rationality ("Is it me,
for a moment"), where Jimmy actually wonders what indeed he really
is. Who is the real Jim? Is it this me, for a momentor is it that me?
Or are any of the four James Michael Cooper the real me?
This is the crisis building to the climax; he's no longer able to
reconcile the four people that he is. As it all becomes too much for
his mind to deal with, he is coming closer to a solution. Once again,
aggravation (not to mention the gin & pills) takes his mind to a
higher level ("The stars are falling/The heat is rising/The past is
calling"). All part of the rational Jim trying to figure out what's
going on.
Disgusted, angry, and still in a higher state of consciousness he
steals a boat and heads for a lonely rock in the bay ("I'm flowing
under bridges/And flying through the sky/I'm traveling down cold
metal/Just a tear in a baby's eye/Let me flow into the ocean/Let me
get back to the sea/Let me be stormy, let me be cold/Let the tide in
and set me free"). Here, perhaps, he can figure it all out and find
and answer. The rage within him has cooled, and now he is a bit more
reflective ("I'm remembering distant memories/Recalling other
names/Rippling over crayons/And boiling in the train"). And, upon
climbing up on the rock, the boat drifts away, and he's stuck out
there, in the rainwhich is where the story began. His reflection is
over. The four facets of his personality visualize themselves before
him in the falling water. He sees them swirling about him, coming
slowly closer and closer tighter, until at last they overlapand
coalesce into one.
This is the moment of realization for Jimmy. It all becomes clear,
all of the problems and also a possible way of solutionfor the only
solution for any problem must come from within. No one can really
solve anything for him. He must meet the challenges of life one by
one and deal with them himself. And more than anything else, trust in
himself. Sure, he still faces all of the problems he did only moments
ago. But now he knows he can deal with them. They aren't as crushing
as they seemed, insurmountable and impossible. Overjoyed, freed, and
feeling very spiritual, Jimmy embraces the rain (rather than cursing
it) and allows the water to run over himwashing away his pain and
filling his soul. Instead of rejecting love, he must draw it to him
("Only love can bring the rain/That falls like tears from on high")
and let it cleanse him. Only through the pain can come joy; only
through the pain can on recognize happiness. And in the end, only
love matters (Love, reign o'er me"). Jim realizes that love, however
fleeting and temporarily it may be, is goal worth seeking
nonetheless. And that without it, life is empty and dry ("On the dry
and dusty road/The nights we spent apart, alone/I need to get back
home/To cool, cool rain").
This ending is typically Townshend. Rarely does he really end a
story, because in real life there is no endingjust moving on to the
next situation. The triumph here for Jimmy is that he has climbed a
level in his development. He's on his way up. True, he may fall back
down againbut at least he has learned how to climb and which
direction to go.
Also, notice that water plays a big part in the spiritual
realizationjust as in many Townshend songs, like The Sea Refuses No
River and The Ferryman (which was based on the Buddhist tale
Siddhartha). This is a common image for many writers aspiring to
spirituality in their works, and Townshend uses it well.
I have made the case QUAD is less spiritual and more realistic than
other Townshend works, but thereís no denying the parallels of coming
to the Universal Mind and Jimmyís embrace of the solution. I still
read much of the story as more self-affirming than spiritual, but
songs like Drowned and Love Reign Oíer Me (for two) are quite
spiritual in essence.
There are flaws in QUAD; not only is the story out or sequence but
Jimmy's behavior does not really indicate four separate
personalities. Townshend, in wanting to create a definitive Who
album, stretched to the point of attempting to reflect the four
members of The Who. When in fact the story works just as well without
this element. The movie version ignores it completely. And it's just
as well; it complicates the story with nothing gained. To
reach "everyman,î as is clearly Townshend's goal, the hero should be
an "everyman" after all. Too, the four facets of Jimmy's behavior are
common enough to be found in any adolescent. We are, all of us, multi-
faceted individuals to begin with.
The story is set in a 1964-5 London/Brighton, but again this isn't
extremely important. Mod as a cult (in this story) is analogous to
any group (or religion), even a small group of friends. So again,
QUAD is a universal tale. Since the vast majority of people (at least
in the Western cultures) go through a traumatic adolescence, it is an
extremely universal tale.
Rock Music itself is a reflection of youth and rebelliousness, and
going through adolescence is the most traumatic part of our youthand
this makes QUAD the definitive Rock album. At least, the most
definitive so far...