[email protected]

In a message dated 12/31/2004 9:58:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

Sometimes it's courteous to
include someone just because he's there. I like to talk about music with
someone who remembers the 60's, but when someone wasn't born until the
80's, I
don't mind clarifying references, or naming one of the group's songs to
give
them a point of reference or something.<<<<

Or send him really good albums from the 60's!

~Kelly, whose son is just such a recipient


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/31/2004 11:29:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:

Does he want to hear me say "Here's an interesting anecdote.
Apparently John Kerry has trouble deciding what to order in a
restaurant. Maybe the flip-flopping rap wasn't as unfair as I
thought." How about "The proposed social security reforms look like
they are really going to shaft stay-at-home moms that end up
divorced."? Or "Thomas Jefferson really is my kind of guy. I really
like this quote of his about his perception of Jesus." Or "This study
of media bias in the early Seventies had really screwy methodology."
These are all things that I remember really lighting up my brain in the
last month that I did not think would be interesting to my ten year old
kid.<<<<

For a while we called it "Math Out Loud"----just thinking about a math
situation aloud so that the boys could listen to us figure out the answer : like
"Ten percent of eighty is eight, plus half of that (four) is $12, adding a bit
for extra service ----make it $14 or $15 for a tip." Then it evolved into
plain old "Thinking Out Loud"----like: "I wonder why these Cape Cod seagulls are
a darker color than the ones that we're used to down South." Or "That
moon/sunset/pond surely is beautiful tonight." Just thinking outloud. I used to do
all my thinking silently. With kids (and especially with unschooling) it
really helps to do it while someone's listening. They may never give a rat's
butt about it----but it *could* spark a new conversation, even IF you thought
there would be no interest.

Of course, now my kids just think it's schizophrenia! <G>

>>>> (Those of you that have talkative, extraverted kids should imagine a
different attitude at my house. <g>) <<<<


Those of you who know Cameron also know he's a bit on the quiet side. <g> So
if he's actually spoken to you, please feel honored! <g> But Thinking Out
Loud has sparked many a conversation about *so* many things and now he's a
veritable walkie-talkie about some things---music and drugs and the 60's and
films (esp. indie films) and war and sex and magic and astronomy and .....

But I talk to myself ALL the time. Sometimes I'm outright ignored;
sometimes, not. Sometimes I'm laughed at! <G>


>>>>If I intentionally read books to myself about topics he was interested
in I might have more good conversations starters. I suppose I would do
that if I was 20 years old and trying to impress a guy. (Ahem, sad but
true.) Does that seem like a reasonable tactic for enhancing
unschooling?<<<<

What would it hurt? You might find a new passion.

But I'd quit if I found it intolerable----remember the certificate of
empowerment!? <g> It *might* even be considered modeling! And he might
reciprocate! <g> Wouldn't it be MIGHTY cool if someone *you* loved picked up a book or
movie about something *you're* passionate about and learned a little more
about it?

~Kelly

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 2:04:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
freeform@... writes:

And that seems manipulative to me. You've started by separating "science"
out from life and turned it into something done with certain tools, and
then you've acquired things and used them not because you're interested,
but because you're worried that your child is uninterested. And
squealing is sort of the icing on the cake? How is this not trying to
manipulate a child?<<<<<<

Cameron was into astronomy several years ago, so we gave him for Christmas.
Nice jobber----you can see forever. It's a science TOOL, yes. Hard to see
planets without that tool. Those planets ARE a little separated from our
everyday lives because they're so damned far away! <g>

Anyway, we had a friend of my dad come over and calibrate (sp?)---set it
up----for us one evening. He pointed it east-north-easterly, just over my white
garden. We got to see Jupiter and Saturn and all the rings and moons -----and
it was just about the most incredible thing I'd ever seen. I squealed out
loud. I jumped up and down. I was floored at what I saw----thrilled! Overjoyed!
Amazed! All in MY backyard!!!

Unfortunately, all our planets keep moving, and I had to *share* my time at
the telescope with my family members! <BWG>

There was nothing manipulative in *any* of this. Someone's help was
required/we needed to use a *science* tool/it was separate from our day-to-day
lives/we bought the *tool* because he'd shown an interest in stars.

None of it was manipulative, yet it's almost the same situation as the
described scene----just looking bigger rather than smaller.

We all had a good time. The telescope has been pulled out less than a dozen
times in these last two years. But, BOY, was that an experience!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Holly Furgason

No one is questioning this sort of activity. My own daughter got a
telescope for Christmas plus a chrystal growing kit and a rock
tumbler. I knew she'd love them and I gave them directly to her. On
our way to NM last year, I got everybody out of the car at 4 in the
morning to see the Milky Way for the first time. We didn't squealed
but we make some pretty reverant oooh sounds.

But I didn't buy her those things and lay them around the house
hoping she would show interest and I didn't ooh at the Milky
Way to get them excited. It was a part of our lives and our
interests already and the Milky Way was naturally oooh inspiring.

Anyway, I think I summed my positiion up in my last post. 'Nuff said.

Holly
2 COOL 4 SCHOOL
http://www.cafepress.com/2cool4school

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/2/2005 2:04:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> freeform@j... writes:
>
> And that seems manipulative to me. You've started by
separating "science"
> out from life and turned it into something done with certain
tools, and
> then you've acquired things and used them not because you're
interested,
> but because you're worried that your child is uninterested. And
> squealing is sort of the icing on the cake? How is this not trying
to
> manipulate a child?<<<<<<
>
> Cameron was into astronomy several years ago, so we gave him for
Christmas.
> Nice jobber----you can see forever. It's a science TOOL, yes. Hard
to see
> planets without that tool. Those planets ARE a little separated
from our
> everyday lives because they're so damned far away! <g>
>
> Anyway, we had a friend of my dad come over and calibrate (sp?)---
set it
> up----for us one evening. He pointed it east-north-easterly, just
over my white
> garden. We got to see Jupiter and Saturn and all the rings and
moons -----and
> it was just about the most incredible thing I'd ever seen. I
squealed out
> loud. I jumped up and down. I was floored at what I saw----
thrilled! Overjoyed!
> Amazed! All in MY backyard!!!
>
> Unfortunately, all our planets keep moving, and I had to *share*
my time at
> the telescope with my family members! <BWG>
>
> There was nothing manipulative in *any* of this. Someone's help
was
> required/we needed to use a *science* tool/it was separate from
our day-to-day
> lives/we bought the *tool* because he'd shown an interest in stars.
>
> None of it was manipulative, yet it's almost the same situation as
the
> described scene----just looking bigger rather than smaller.
>
> We all had a good time. The telescope has been pulled out less than
a dozen
> times in these last two years. But, BOY, was that an experience!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 2:25:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
freeform@... writes:

I guess the difference for me is that I do this as part of living - I
read stuff aloud to my dad, too, or anyone else who happens to be around,
just because I think it's cool stuff. My dad and brother and I
occasionally clip and send articles to each other, from JAMA or the
Honolulu newspaper or whatever. I don't do it, though, because I'm hoping
they'll learn something new or it will pique their interest in a topic -
there's no agenda to it, I guess. It's the agenda part that feels wrong
to me. And sometimes people talk about "strewing" as a way to "hook"
kids, to expose them to things or to get them interested in a topic....
and other times people talk about it simply as sharing things with your
children that you think they'll enjoy or find interesting. I'm
comfortable with the latter but not the former.<<<<

It *should* be a part of your life. But some people need a push in the right
direction----The adults, not he kids----ESPECIALLY if their kids have been
in school!

And I don't think anyone says that it's a way to hook kids into something.
It *might*, but that's not the purpose. It's to expose them to something they
*may* find fascinating.

I left "Apples to Apples" sitting out on a book shelf last night. The teens
found it and played for three hours----and HOOKED three adults into the game
in the process. I played it for the first time at Anne Ohman's. Who "hooked"
whom? <g>


If a child NEVER saw a microscope (and how many homes do you think keep one
on the counter? Seriously!), bringing one home *might* just be the spark of a
new passion. It might be a one time-good time, but, so?


*Our* jobs as unschooling parents IS to bring unusual (as well as what
*might* be considered mundane) things into our homes----or take kids TO them. One
of the few things schools have over homes is that there are people with
different interests and there ARE microscopes and posters and THINGS. ALL of this
is available in the real world, so please believe me when I say that I'm not
saying to bring school HOME! I AM saying that it's a responsibility we take
to provide cool and exciting things for our children----things that *we* may
not necessarily keep handy----because its not a part of *our* adult lives.

~Kelly


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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 11:23:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

So... where in there is manipulation? I know my kids can understand and be
interested in all kinds of things they've seen, if they've only seen them.
In
a rich environment, they can learn more than they would've learned in
school.
In a "whatever" environment where parents aren't taking them out and about a
lot, I don't think they will. An environment can be enriched, and if a
family wants to provide their kids with a full set of experiences, why would
any
unschoolers recommend against anything that makes a natural-learning
environment
richer?<<<

Right.

I think a family in which *everything* holds a possible/potential interest
and in which no one is forced to engage in things that may *not* hold
interest----well, those kids will be honestly *open* to whatever flies in.

That's natural.

My kids trust that, if I "strew" something, they can just as easily take it
as leave it. I'm happy either way----and my feelings are fine either way.

A mom whose feelings are easily hurt by a child's disinterest might have a
harder time with this. AND a kid who feels that he *needs* to show some kind of
an interest to please mom----yikes!

~Kelly





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/05 8:11:47 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<< I left "Apples to Apples" sitting out on a book shelf last night. The
teens
found it and played for three hours----and HOOKED three adults into the game
in the process. I played it for the first time at Anne Ohman's. Who "hooked"
whom? <g> >>

Kirby and Marty went to a new year's eve party with their physical friends,
not their gaming friends. They usually play sports with them or go to swing
dance or whatever (Kirby isn't as physical as the rest, so it's not his main
crowd, but he's known the hostess since they were babies in La Leche League).
They said bring food or something entertaining. Kirby was hesitant about what
games to take and talked to me about his concerns about that crowd, so I
advised him to pick games that are easy for people to join or drop out of or stand
at the side of and watch, rather than games people have to be dealt into or
start from the beginning. He didn't expect them to play.

Turns out he put encore out as soon as they got there, 7:30, and it was
played non-stop until 11:00. Then an spontaneous game of "killer" (spies and
secret "deaths) started--nobody said "let's play" and nobody reviewed the rules, it
just started and played through. Marty told me and Keith all about it at
breakfast. He was elated. And they boys came home by 2:00, and more awake and
alert on the way home because of their satisfaction with the way the games
helped the party than they had been on the way out--wary and not expecting the
best.

Because of people on unschooling lists bragging it up, we bought Five Crowns
years back. We're on our third deck. We've tried to throw the other decks
away when they got gummy (as cards do when they're played a lot) but both times,
guests said "NO! I want the old ones if you're getting new ones. So Wendy
has one set and Cathyn has the other, but we who play TONS have the third.

The Sunday before Christmas an older friend from Denver was here just for the
one evening, with other friends. They suggested Five Crowns. Her kids are
long grown, but she really wants to buy that game when she gets home. We
played two full games and then played the word version, Quiddler. The boys and
five or six of their friends were playing other games in another room. Holly
was off with a friend of hers. We had no less fun with this game than we would
have had when we were playing it because others had said it was an easy game
for little kids.

When Dan Narigon was stuck in Albuquerque after the 9/11 attack (he's an air
force officer and had been at Kirtland AFB on a contract job, but they closed
the base so the meetings weren't happening, but he couldn't fly home either),
we played Five Crowns two nights.

If something starts one way and becomes a normal part of a busy, bubbling
life, it took hold and that's that. If something doesn't take hold, that's just
as fine.

-=-I AM saying that it's a responsibility we take
to provide cool and exciting things for our children----things that *we* may
not necessarily keep handy----because its not a part of *our* adult lives.-=-

Maybe some unschooling parents do more than they need to do if they're doing
schoolish things out of fear. But I think if they still have a fear they
could stand to lighten up. Yet objections to strewing as a word or concept or
whatever seem to me to be defending those who might want to say kids can learn on
their own time in their own rooms, and the house can stay as it would have if
the family wasn't homeschooling. I don't see why or how that's a great and
noble goal.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 11:49:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

We're on our third deck. We've tried to throw the other decks
away when they got gummy (as cards do when they're played a lot) but both
times,
guests said "NO! <<<<

You can sprinkle them with baby powder or corn starch to get rid of the
"sticky" and keep them a little longer.

Magician's trick.

~Kelly




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/05 10:12:34 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<< You can sprinkle them with baby powder or corn starch to get rid of the
"sticky" and keep them a little longer.

Magician's trick. >>

Cool! thank you!

Kelli Traaseth

*** I think a family in which *everything* holds a possible/potential interest
and in which no one is forced to engage in things that may *not* hold
interest----well, those kids will be honestly *open* to whatever flies in.***



Right. This is all fine and true with families that are onboard with unschooling and all of the trust that goes with those close fitting relationships is present. But maybe the point where it all gets confusing is when there are ulterior motives in the strewing. Or families are in different places as far as trusting each other.



Maybe if a family is new to unschooling, as we were 3 years ago, and I strewed some things around, my son might question looking at what I strewed. He didn't have the trust in my intentions at that point. Before unschooling I'm sure I was always trying to "educate" him or trying to get him to learn what I thought he should learn. Those efforts led to a distrust in me. Why would he want to try the things I'm suggesting when it was usually what I thought he should learn.

This is where it seems like strewing could be manipulation or artificial in its origin. Maybe it all depends on the motives behind the strewing.

To me it seems like if we lead an interesting life and share that with our children, the strewing just happens. (As others have said.) Unfortunately other factors come into people's lives, like bad school experiences or unenthusiastic, negative people and we have to try and describe what should be happening naturally.



Kelli~








---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! � Try it today!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:30:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

<< You can sprinkle them with baby powder or corn starch to get rid of the
"sticky" and keep them a little longer.

Magician's trick. >>

Cool! thank you!<<<<

Should I have told you that trick or let you figure it out on your own? Did
I strew some worthwhile information? <bwg>

~Kelly





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 09:47:52 EST kbcdlovejo@... writes:>
> Cameron was into astronomy several years ago, so we gave him for
> Christmas.
> Nice jobber----you can see forever. It's a science TOOL, yes. Hard
> to see
> planets without that tool. Those planets ARE a little separated from
> our
> everyday lives because they're so damned far away! <g>

But he started with an interest in astronomy. You didn't start by
thinking hmm, I wish Cameron was more interested in science, maybe if I
buy him this little thingy he'll get into it. You weren't trying to lead
him, you were reflecting and expanding on interests he already had.

Dar

[email protected]

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:10:07 EST kbcdlovejo@... writes:
> I left "Apples to Apples" sitting out on a book shelf last night.
> The teens
> found it and played for three hours----and HOOKED three adults into
> the game
> in the process. I played it for the first time at Anne Ohman's. Who
> "hooked"
> whom? <g>
>
We have big parties up here once or twice a year (although last September
may have been the last) and Apples to Apples is always part of them, at
some point with some group. Our friend Anne from the bay area always
brings up new cool games, and some of them "stick" and some don't.
They're fun. We do play the "everyone talk at once" version of Apples to
Apples, and we've played it with other people who are used to each person
having a turn to convince the judge instead. When we play, once the judge
has decided against a card he throws it into the box, and that person
stops talking then, but otherwise everyone talks at once. We prefer the
noise and semi-chaos...

We also play The Great Dalmuti every year, although that's out of print
now. It's a great game, and we usually find some fancy hats for the
Greater and Lesser Dalmuti to wear, and pull something out of the ragbag
for the peons. One year the merchants all got Krispy Kreme hats, too...
and the peons sit the piano bench or a wooden box, while everyone else
gets chairs. We tend to get very theatrical, at least some of us do...

Dar

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 10:46:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:

Maybe if a family is new to unschooling, as we were 3 years ago, and I
strewed some things around, my son might question looking at what I strewed.
He didn't have the trust in my intentions at that point. Before unschooling
I'm sure I was always trying to "educate" him or trying to get him to learn
what I thought he should learn. Those efforts led to a distrust in me.


---------

My kids never went to school and never distrusted me.
I've always dragged in something weird or new, and cycled through toys and
games and *stuff* like puzzles and prisms and window-crystals and stuff. Did
it before I had kids, did it MERRILY after I had babies and toddlers, and
just never stopped. I think it's the central thing that made unschooling so
easy here. But it's not just what's shown up on the bathroom counter, it's
where we go and what we watch and listen to. It's a whole "sense-surround"
experience (not quite in the Kentucky Fried Movie way, but kinda <g>).

-=- Unfortunately other factors come into people's lives, like bad school
experiences or unenthusiastic, negative people and we have to try and describe
what should be happening naturally.
-=-

Too often the unenthusiastic negative people are the parents.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 11:12:49 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

Should I have told you that trick or let you figure it out on your own? Did
I strew some worthwhile information? <bwg>


---------------

You want to just let me figure out whether to rinse the corn starch off with
water?

<g>

I'll try both ways!!

NOT.
Already played with much corn starch, had some gravy failures and some
"kitchen chemistry" successes.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 11:43:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
unschooler@... writes:

If a parent's not interested enough in learning that
they don't have an "enriched" home, then they don't need to leave
stuff out for the kids. <<<<<

If a parent's not interested in learning, she probably won't be interested
in unschooling at all. It's a moot point. She'll send that kid to school----to
learn that learning sucks, just like mom says. A parent HAS to be interested
in learning to unschool. Period.

>>>>>They need to pick up interests of their own. <<<<<

Well, that's true of *any*body. I firmly believe that a person is *much*
more interesting if he has a passion----and the more passions, the better. Even
IF they aren't MY passions, I'll find him more interesting because he IS
passionate about *something*!

Unschooling parents, in my opinion, DO need interests and passions. They
need to model that love of learning. A parent who sits around all day doing
nothing makes a very, very bad inschooling prospect.



>>>>>Then the strewing will happen naturally. Otherwise, they're putting
the cart before the horse.<<<<

Some people have so much of a dislike for their personal learning that they
*can't* strew naturally. They NEED to put that cart before the horse and
*push* if they're going to get to unschooling. They need to fake it 'til they
make it!

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 1:24:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
freeform@... writes:

I don't share because I think my child should be more interested in
science, or social studies, or whatever. That was the original premise
that I disagreed with.<<<<

Did anyone *actually * say this?

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 2:09:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

You want to just let me figure out whether to rinse the corn starch off
with
water?

<g>

I'll try both ways!!

NOT.
Already played with much corn starch, had some gravy failures and some
"kitchen chemistry" successes.<<<

For the interested folks: Don't rinse it out----shuffle it out!

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 11:25:44 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
freeform@... writes:

But he started with an interest in astronomy. You didn't start by
thinking hmm, I wish Cameron was more interested in science, maybe if I
buy him this little thingy he'll get into it. You weren't trying to lead
him, you were reflecting and expanding on interests he already had.


-----------

Trying to lead him isn't a crime, not even an unschooling crime.

When I first took my kids to the zoo, I thought they would have fun, but I
didn't wait for them to say "I would certainly like to see a zebra in person,
mother." I figured they had no idea there were zebras (or whatever, because
each kid had many zoo firsts) in Albuquerque so I would surprise them.

Trying to reproduce school is an unschooling crime, but providing new
exposure and new ideas isn't.

-=-But he started with an interest in astronomy.-=-

How will a kid get an interest in astronomy if nobody plants anything in his
path or points out or tells stories or provides SOMETHING to him?

Sandra





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Holly Furgason

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:

> How will a kid get an interest in astronomy if nobody plants
anything in his
> path or points out or tells stories or provides SOMETHING to him?

By looking up into the night sky.

Holly
2 COOL 4 SCHOOL
Unschooling t-shirts with an edge!
http://www.cafepress.com/2cool4school

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:06:31 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
freeform@... writes:

We also play The Great Dalmuti every year, although that's out of print
now. It's a great game, and we usually find some fancy hats for the
Greater and Lesser Dalmuti to wear, and pull something out of the ragbag
for the peons.


------------

Oh yes. We have that. Nice chair and crown for the Great Dalmuti, and
stupid stuff and a squat for the losers. Until the next round...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 14:26:57 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
> How will a kid get an interest in astronomy if nobody plants
> anything in his
> path or points out or tells stories or provides SOMETHING to him?

He could be outside at night sometime...

Again, I don't have anything against sharing cool stuff and ideas. I
think those things are essential. I have a problem with a parent
"strewing" stuff with the express purpose of getting a kid more
interested in "science". That was the original scenerio. It wasn't
getting a microscope because the parent thought child might enjoy it or
be interested in it. That's different.

Dar

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:14:08 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

I don't share because I think my child should be more interested in
science, or social studies, or whatever. That was the original premise
that I disagreed with.<<<<

Did anyone *actually * say this?


===========

I think it started with how someone might communicate with a child who's not
talkative.
Not all communication needs to be verbal. Sometimes it can be sharing an
experience, playing with a puzzle, messing with magnets, watching the
mesmerizing kinetic ball-run sculpture at Explora, going for a walk. Sometimes
conversation comes up. But if someone's unschooling relationship seems stagnant,
it will help to mix it up. Mixing it up can involve changing schedules and
routines or putting new things out.

If a marriage relationship is getting boring, same advice.

If someone has a friend who only ever does the same things with them, same
advice.

Not weird particular agenda bearing advice unless the agenda is keeping life
fresh and interesting.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:40:25 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
freeform@... writes:

I have a problem with a parent
"strewing" stuff with the express purpose of getting a kid more
interested in "science". That was the original scenerio. It wasn't
getting a microscope because the parent thought child might enjoy it or
be interested in it.


============

Then you have a problem with something that never existed, so it's okay to
stop complaining about it.

If someone decides against putting a map on the wall because this discussion
makes them worry that wanting a child to have access to information is "not
unschooling," I will be very sorry.

ENcourage people to unschool, don't discourage them.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:08:46 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
> If someone decides against putting a map on the wall because this
> discussion
> makes them worry that wanting a child to have access to information
> is "not
> unschooling," I will be very sorry.

Me, too. Unless the map is up there because the parent thinks the child
needs to do more geography. I think that's a slippery slope that leads to
schooly-ness.

We have two maps on our walls, a world one and a world-at-night one. We
had a USA one but it fell off. They all look kind of scruffy, and I wish
we'd laminated them first. Sometimes Rain just sits and find stuff on the
world map, and when the tsunami happened it was helpful to be able to see
where it had occured and which countries were affected. We had the radio
on NPR and they had a discussion with the Vice President (I think) of the
Maldives, and when we got home Rain wanted to know where they were, so we
found them.

I put them up because I was digging through old ephemera and found them
and they were cool-looking, and because it seemed like we were needing to
google maps fairly often and it would be easily if they were hanging on
the wall. I'd also heard on NPR that cartographers put intentional
errors on maps, for copyright-type reasons, and I wanted to see if I
could find any. I haven't, yet anyway.
>
> ENcourage people to unschool, don't discourage them.

Well, that's the point. I don't think some of the things mentioned on
this thread help people understand unschooling.

dar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
freeform@...
http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=freeformlife
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dawn Adams

Dar writes:
>They all look kind of scruffy, and I wish
>we'd laminated them first.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Can you get stuff that big laminated? And where?

Dawn (in NS)


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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/2005 9:11:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
queana7@... writes:

If we mentioned the fact that we were bored during these activities she
would get very angry and tell us how ungrateful we were. <<<

OUCH!

~Kelly


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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/2005 11:13:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:

I'm sure I helped them with it a lot too, but
my kids generally get excited about things on their own without
looking to me first to see whether I'm excited. <<<<

Have your kids been to school, though, Patti?

That can make a difference. A child jaded by what learning looks like in
school can need some help in seeing its joy in an unschooling home.

I'm easily excited by a lot of things, so I'm hardly "acting" when I show my
enthusiasm. I *might* do better to curb my enthusiasm sometimes! <g> But
some new unschooling moms might need to put out some effort in showing the joy
in learning new stuff.

Learning *should* be joyful!

~Kelly


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averyschmidt

> Have your kids been to school, though, Patti?

Nope.
But *I* went for 17 years, and was a good student to boot. So I've
needed to do a lot of work in my own mind, and conversations such as
this one have been very helpful to me.

> That can make a difference. A child jaded by what learning looks
like in
> school can need some help in seeing its joy in an unschooling home.

I agree. Mabye it's why my kids are excited by microscopes and I'm
not. Too many good grades in science class. :-/
Recently I've recovered my excitement for history though and can't
get enough of historical fiction, non-fiction and films. When we
were in DC and visiting the Ford Theater I was literally awestruck
by the Lincoln exhibits. My kids are excited by it too, but it's
less likely because they are following my example and more likely
because it really just is fascinating stuff in its own right. I say
that because there are things that I find exciting that they
definitely don't.

> I'm easily excited by a lot of things, so I'm hardly "acting" when
I show my
> enthusiasm. I *might* do better to curb my enthusiasm sometimes!
<g> But
> some new unschooling moms might need to put out some effort in
showing the joy
> in learning new stuff.
>
> Learning *should* be joyful!

I agree. But I'd be more likely to say that *living* should be
joyful. Learning is an inevitable by-product of living a joyful
life.
I'm getting a lot out of this conversation.
Thank you everybody! :-)

Patti

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/2005 10:31:35 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:

I agree. But I'd be more likely to say that *living* should be
joyful. Learning is an inevitable by-product of living a joyful
life.



------------------

If someone is joyfully watching soap operas in a hotel-room-stark house,
while her kids are in their rooms with color-coordinated toys, and she says
"Unschooling isn't working out for us," I might recommend that joy alone isn't
enough for them.

Sandra


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