At the end of my rope
hlf30
Please help me. I'm shaking and crying. I just blew up at my kids
big time. I'm just sick.
Background-4 kids-ds9, ds7, ds5, dd2
Have homeschooled all along. I've always been relaxed, but gradually
shifted to unschooling.
My kids fight all the time. I repeat, all the time. They fight over
everything. I'm going insane. Here are examples just from today:
I'm on the couch reading to dd2 while ds7 is building with blocks at
my feet. Dd5 comes into the room sort of walking/wiggling/being a
little boy. As he gets closer to me I say, "Be Careful of ds7's
tower." At that point he wiggles his hips extra hard and his leg
knocks over the whole thing. Ds7 jumps on him from behind and
tackles him. "How come you knocked over my tower??!!!" (hit,
hit) "Leave my stuff alone" (hit,hit) Ds5 starts sobbing.
Later.
I'm sitting down and ds7 comes over to show me something he just read
in a magazine. While he's talking to me ds5 comes and leans on ds7
hard enough for him to fall over. I said `Please stop'. He didn't,
knocked ds7 over, ds7 got up and kicked ds5.
Later.
I'm making brownies as we're going to a friend's house for supper.
I'm starting the filling and ds9 calls "Can I like the filling bowl
when you're done?" I say yes. Ds7 pipes up "Hey, I want to lick the
filling bowl." I say "You can lick the frosting bowl when I make
that this afternoon." Ds5 says "Hey that's not fair! I want
something to lick." I say "Well you can help me make the frosting."
OK everything seems fine.
I make the filling, give the bowl to ds9. Ds7 says "can't I have
just a little?" "No!" says ds9, "Mom said I could have it." Later
when I give the frosting bowl to ds7, ds 5 starts crying "How come I
don't have anything to lick?" I ask ds7 if he'd like to share. Of
course, he wouldn't. Now dd2 starts crying she wants to lick
something. I have nothing more to offer! Everyone is mad.
Later.
Dd2 asks for a poptart. I say yes and get it for her. There's two
left in the package. (you already know what's coming, right?) I
hand her one; she asks for the other. She has never, never, never
eaten more than one pop tart, she gets too full. I tell her to eat
the first one and then we'll see if she's still hungry. At that
point ds5 grabs the second pop tart off the counter and runs way
shouting "It's mine It's mine. I'm having this pop tart." Dd 2
starts screaming. I asked ds5 to please give the pop tart back to me
and we'd try to work something out. "No" he says and turns around to
try to hold it out of my reach. I try to grab it and think `this is
crazy, I'm not going to get into a grabbing match with a 5yo." Now
ds7 is crying there's no pop tarts left for him and I know ds9 is
going to throw a huge fit (crying, stomping) when he gets home from a
friend's house and sees there aren't any left.
I suppose I could go buy more Pop tarts at the store, but I couldn't
go this exact minute and when would it end. How many pop tarts would
I have to buy to make everyone happy?
I finally just blew up and yelled and stomped out of the room and
into my bedroom where I locked the door. Not the most mature thing,
but I was scared I was going to abuse my children if I didn't leave
the room NOW.
This is just a small sampling. It's all the time. Fighting over
everything, being so cruel to one another. Sometimes I feel they'd
be better off on a ps playground then home with siblings.
I've read these boards for years. I try to breathe. I say Yes
whenever I can. I try to be gentle and calm. I try to give everyone
tons of attention. I'm just stretched too thin. I feel as if
someone is always whining or crying or complaining or grumbling.
I'm at the end of my rope. Sandra, Ren, Kelly, others .please help.
Sorry if you are reading this more than once. I'm going to post it
on a few boards.
Fonty
big time. I'm just sick.
Background-4 kids-ds9, ds7, ds5, dd2
Have homeschooled all along. I've always been relaxed, but gradually
shifted to unschooling.
My kids fight all the time. I repeat, all the time. They fight over
everything. I'm going insane. Here are examples just from today:
I'm on the couch reading to dd2 while ds7 is building with blocks at
my feet. Dd5 comes into the room sort of walking/wiggling/being a
little boy. As he gets closer to me I say, "Be Careful of ds7's
tower." At that point he wiggles his hips extra hard and his leg
knocks over the whole thing. Ds7 jumps on him from behind and
tackles him. "How come you knocked over my tower??!!!" (hit,
hit) "Leave my stuff alone" (hit,hit) Ds5 starts sobbing.
Later.
I'm sitting down and ds7 comes over to show me something he just read
in a magazine. While he's talking to me ds5 comes and leans on ds7
hard enough for him to fall over. I said `Please stop'. He didn't,
knocked ds7 over, ds7 got up and kicked ds5.
Later.
I'm making brownies as we're going to a friend's house for supper.
I'm starting the filling and ds9 calls "Can I like the filling bowl
when you're done?" I say yes. Ds7 pipes up "Hey, I want to lick the
filling bowl." I say "You can lick the frosting bowl when I make
that this afternoon." Ds5 says "Hey that's not fair! I want
something to lick." I say "Well you can help me make the frosting."
OK everything seems fine.
I make the filling, give the bowl to ds9. Ds7 says "can't I have
just a little?" "No!" says ds9, "Mom said I could have it." Later
when I give the frosting bowl to ds7, ds 5 starts crying "How come I
don't have anything to lick?" I ask ds7 if he'd like to share. Of
course, he wouldn't. Now dd2 starts crying she wants to lick
something. I have nothing more to offer! Everyone is mad.
Later.
Dd2 asks for a poptart. I say yes and get it for her. There's two
left in the package. (you already know what's coming, right?) I
hand her one; she asks for the other. She has never, never, never
eaten more than one pop tart, she gets too full. I tell her to eat
the first one and then we'll see if she's still hungry. At that
point ds5 grabs the second pop tart off the counter and runs way
shouting "It's mine It's mine. I'm having this pop tart." Dd 2
starts screaming. I asked ds5 to please give the pop tart back to me
and we'd try to work something out. "No" he says and turns around to
try to hold it out of my reach. I try to grab it and think `this is
crazy, I'm not going to get into a grabbing match with a 5yo." Now
ds7 is crying there's no pop tarts left for him and I know ds9 is
going to throw a huge fit (crying, stomping) when he gets home from a
friend's house and sees there aren't any left.
I suppose I could go buy more Pop tarts at the store, but I couldn't
go this exact minute and when would it end. How many pop tarts would
I have to buy to make everyone happy?
I finally just blew up and yelled and stomped out of the room and
into my bedroom where I locked the door. Not the most mature thing,
but I was scared I was going to abuse my children if I didn't leave
the room NOW.
This is just a small sampling. It's all the time. Fighting over
everything, being so cruel to one another. Sometimes I feel they'd
be better off on a ps playground then home with siblings.
I've read these boards for years. I try to breathe. I say Yes
whenever I can. I try to be gentle and calm. I try to give everyone
tons of attention. I'm just stretched too thin. I feel as if
someone is always whining or crying or complaining or grumbling.
I'm at the end of my rope. Sandra, Ren, Kelly, others .please help.
Sorry if you are reading this more than once. I'm going to post it
on a few boards.
Fonty
Julie Bogart
Hugs from me. {{Fonty}} Just wanted you to know that I saw it was *you* and wanted to let
you know that I care.
you know that I care.
--- In [email protected], "hlf30" <lawfonta@m...> wrote:
>
> Please help me. I'm shaking and crying. I just blew up at my kids
> big time. I'm just sick.
>
> Background-4 kids-ds9, ds7, ds5, dd2
> Have homeschooled all along. I've always been relaxed, but gradually
> shifted to unschooling.
>
> My kids fight all the time. I repeat, all the time. They fight over
> everything. I'm going insane.
I'm thinking that perhaps what is happening is that you are trying to be fair all the time
and the kids are holding you to it. But what happens is that they want more than fair so
they are pushing your limits to see what happens. I keep thinking of the Faber and
Mazlisch books, especially Siblings Without Rivalry.
somethien we've done which is extremely time-consuming and yet has a high yield (and
we've done it since they were very young), is take upset parties to the couch. We seat them
opposite each other and have each one share what is bothering him/ her. The speaker
gets uninterrupted time to say what he or she feels. The listener needs to hear all the
words and say back what is bothering the first one. If he or she misunderstands, the
speaker gets to make corrections.
Then you reverse it so that the other child now gets to speak and hear her/his words fed
back.
Once both have spoken and have head each other's powerful feelings, it's time for you to
ask questions that would help them discover how they would have liked to be treated
differently, or they can brainstorm solutions for future episodes, or they can simply let go
(sometimes just airing the feelings is enough).
The reason it is time consuming is that sometimes it means being late to a meeting or
appointment, sometimes they won't hear each other and try to shout over each other.
When that happens, we usually separate them for a few minutes and then bring them back
together again when they are calmer.
The brainstorming time is when you can suggest ideas too, but beware of solving it for
them. Kids are sensitive to parents taking over and making things unfair again. Stay
focused on the feelings.
So, in the pop tart instance, it might be that one of the kids would say that it is unfair that
the little sister gets the second pop tart reserved for her when she won't really eat or finish
it. She might say that she likes having two because it's a complete package.
Once they have heard each other, it's time to help them think through how to address
both those concerns.
Might it have worked to ask for the second one as a favor? Might it have worked to split
the second one? Might it work better next time for you to declare that you are about to
give a pop tart to the sister and no one may take it or ask for it, but that you are ready to
offer other snacks to whoever is hungry?
For stubborn kids who refuse to see anyone else's viewpoint, there is usually a longer term
issue underneath it. Sometimes there is anger in the home or there is a feeling of
uncertainty or desperation that is mainfesting in sibling relationships. We had this a bit
when my oldest was bullied on our street. He would come home one down and that would
trigger some of his behavior that was less gentle.
Kids who deliberately destroy a sibling's tower need some time alone with you to talk
through why that was a satisfying thing to do - what the goal was. It may take revisiting
this issue multiple times.
Recently one of my kids wouldn't allow his sibling onto the X Box and even when we
showed him that in the reverse situation, he'd want the same courtesy, he replied, "I only
care about what benefits me."
At that moment, I took him off the X Box to have a chat with me about values and human
beings and what it means to demonstrate concern for others and what it means to care
only for self. I imagine this is not the last time we'll have this talk. :) But I don't want to
ignore it, either.
Hugs to you.
Hope some of this helps.
Julie B
Here are examples just from today:
>
> I'm on the couch reading to dd2 while ds7 is building with blocks at
> my feet. Dd5 comes into the room sort of walking/wiggling/being a
> little boy. As he gets closer to me I say, "Be Careful of ds7's
> tower." At that point he wiggles his hips extra hard and his leg
> knocks over the whole thing. Ds7 jumps on him from behind and
> tackles him. "How come you knocked over my tower??!!!" (hit,
> hit) "Leave my stuff alone" (hit,hit) Ds5 starts sobbing.
>
> Later.
>
> I'm sitting down and ds7 comes over to show me something he just read
> in a magazine. While he's talking to me ds5 comes and leans on ds7
> hard enough for him to fall over. I said `Please stop'. He didn't,
> knocked ds7 over, ds7 got up and kicked ds5.
>
> Later.
>
> I'm making brownies as we're going to a friend's house for supper.
> I'm starting the filling and ds9 calls "Can I like the filling bowl
> when you're done?" I say yes. Ds7 pipes up "Hey, I want to lick the
> filling bowl." I say "You can lick the frosting bowl when I make
> that this afternoon." Ds5 says "Hey that's not fair! I want
> something to lick." I say "Well you can help me make the frosting."
> OK everything seems fine.
>
> I make the filling, give the bowl to ds9. Ds7 says "can't I have
> just a little?" "No!" says ds9, "Mom said I could have it." Later
> when I give the frosting bowl to ds7, ds 5 starts crying "How come I
> don't have anything to lick?" I ask ds7 if he'd like to share. Of
> course, he wouldn't. Now dd2 starts crying she wants to lick
> something. I have nothing more to offer! Everyone is mad.
>
> Later.
>
> Dd2 asks for a poptart. I say yes and get it for her. There's two
> left in the package. (you already know what's coming, right?) I
> hand her one; she asks for the other. She has never, never, never
> eaten more than one pop tart, she gets too full. I tell her to eat
> the first one and then we'll see if she's still hungry. At that
> point ds5 grabs the second pop tart off the counter and runs way
> shouting "It's mine It's mine. I'm having this pop tart." Dd 2
> starts screaming. I asked ds5 to please give the pop tart back to me
> and we'd try to work something out. "No" he says and turns around to
> try to hold it out of my reach. I try to grab it and think `this is
> crazy, I'm not going to get into a grabbing match with a 5yo." Now
> ds7 is crying there's no pop tarts left for him and I know ds9 is
> going to throw a huge fit (crying, stomping) when he gets home from a
> friend's house and sees there aren't any left.
>
> I suppose I could go buy more Pop tarts at the store, but I couldn't
> go this exact minute and when would it end. How many pop tarts would
> I have to buy to make everyone happy?
>
> I finally just blew up and yelled and stomped out of the room and
> into my bedroom where I locked the door. Not the most mature thing,
> but I was scared I was going to abuse my children if I didn't leave
> the room NOW.
>
> This is just a small sampling. It's all the time. Fighting over
> everything, being so cruel to one another. Sometimes I feel they'd
> be better off on a ps playground then home with siblings.
>
> I've read these boards for years. I try to breathe. I say Yes
> whenever I can. I try to be gentle and calm. I try to give everyone
> tons of attention. I'm just stretched too thin. I feel as if
> someone is always whining or crying or complaining or grumbling.
>
> I'm at the end of my rope. Sandra, Ren, Kelly, others .please help.
> Sorry if you are reading this more than once. I'm going to post it
> on a few boards.
>
> Fonty
Sylvia Toyama
> I'm on the couch reading to dd2 while ds7 is building with blocks at my feet. Dd5 comes into the room sort of walking/wiggling/being a little boy. As he gets closer to me I say, "Be Careful of ds7's******
> tower." At that point he wiggles his hips extra hard and his leg
> knocks over the whole thing. Ds7 jumps on him from behind and
> tackles him. "How come you knocked over my tower??!!!" (hit,
> hit) "Leave my stuff alone" (hit,hit) Ds5 starts sobbing.
>
> Later.
>
> I'm sitting down and ds7 comes over to show me something he just read in a magazine. While he's talking to me ds5 comes and leans on ds7 hard enough for him to fall over. I said `Please stop'. He didn't, knocked ds7 over, ds7 got up and kicked ds5.
It sounds like maybe ds5 has no concept of personal space issues. Have you ever explained to him -- maybe at a time before an incident happens, or maybe as a habitual reminder for that child -- about personal space issues? Andy (8) tends to bump into people, and he crowds people, too. For him, it's partly a sensory issue and as such he just doesn't get that other people have greater needs for personal space than he does. It may take regular attention on your part to remind him to give others a wide berth. It also might help to have him deal with the aftermath as a real consequence. When he knocked over the tower, did he pick up the blocks, or help his brother re-build? Was he expected to? Knowing he'll be responsible for damages may encourage him to be more careful and considerate of others.
I've also found that with Andy, speaking to him isn't always enough, especially when he's excited or wound up in some way. I reach out and place my hand on his arm or back (leg if he's sitting) as I speak to him -- it sort of re-centers his energy so he can pay attention to what's happening outside of himself.
Sylvia
__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
> I finally just blew up and yelled and stomped out of the room andI have no advice, but will be listening carefully, because this all
> into my bedroom where I locked the door. Not the most mature thing,
> but I was scared I was going to abuse my children if I didn't leave
> the room NOW.
>
> Fonty
sounds VERY familiar.
I just wanted to counter the "not the most mature" comment.
Like HELL!!! It was a completely mature and reasonable step to take,
especially if you felt yourself loosing control. The IMmature thing
to do would have been to stay and mabye hurt your kids.
You did the right thing.
Kelly
Jason & Stephanie
Please help me. I'm shaking and crying. I just blew up at my kids
big time. I'm just sick.>>>>>>
****All I can say is this happens in my house also. We also talk about being nice and doing unto others and if you don't like to be hit then it's not nice to hit your sister etc. As a matter of fact my middle two were fighting today, we discussed it, I guess repitition and modeling are good ways to go. I also try to be proactive not reactive and I pray hard, I usually only yell when my hormones are raging which is what happened today. After it's all said and done we discuss it, talking is the best advice I can give, my kids are almost the same as yours, 9, 6, 5 and 2. I too have run to my room stomping, you are not alone. Of course then they all show up at my door <g>
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
big time. I'm just sick.>>>>>>
****All I can say is this happens in my house also. We also talk about being nice and doing unto others and if you don't like to be hit then it's not nice to hit your sister etc. As a matter of fact my middle two were fighting today, we discussed it, I guess repitition and modeling are good ways to go. I also try to be proactive not reactive and I pray hard, I usually only yell when my hormones are raging which is what happened today. After it's all said and done we discuss it, talking is the best advice I can give, my kids are almost the same as yours, 9, 6, 5 and 2. I too have run to my room stomping, you are not alone. Of course then they all show up at my door <g>
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/15/2004 5:22:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lawfonta@... writes:
I'm at the end of my rope. Sandra, Ren, Kelly, others….please help.
Sorry if you are reading this more than once. I'm going to post it
on a few boards.<<<<
Fonty----I'm honored to be singled out with Sandra and Ren----but I have two
boys, eight years apart. I've fortunately never had this problem and have no
practical advice except to wait for those who've lived through/avoided it.
My brother and I are 15 months apart and fought like cats and dogs---worse
than yours. I certainly wouldn't recommend *my* parents' solutions (spankings
and time-outs), so I'll refrain from answering! <g>
Someone will be by shortly.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lawfonta@... writes:
I'm at the end of my rope. Sandra, Ren, Kelly, others….please help.
Sorry if you are reading this more than once. I'm going to post it
on a few boards.<<<<
Fonty----I'm honored to be singled out with Sandra and Ren----but I have two
boys, eight years apart. I've fortunately never had this problem and have no
practical advice except to wait for those who've lived through/avoided it.
My brother and I are 15 months apart and fought like cats and dogs---worse
than yours. I certainly wouldn't recommend *my* parents' solutions (spankings
and time-outs), so I'll refrain from answering! <g>
Someone will be by shortly.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<Background-4 kids-ds9, ds7, ds5, dd2
Have homeschooled all along. I've always been relaxed, but gradually
shifted to unschooling.
Snip....
.... I'm at the end of my rope. Sandra, Ren, Kelly, others….please help.
Sorry if you are reading this more than once. I'm going to post it
on a few boards.>>>>>>
Please come and post it over on AlwaysUnschooled. Your kids are the ages
that this list focuses on. I only have one dd, but on that list we have a
bunch of families with several close in age youngsters.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
Robyn L. Coburn
---
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Have homeschooled all along. I've always been relaxed, but gradually
shifted to unschooling.
Snip....
.... I'm at the end of my rope. Sandra, Ren, Kelly, others….please help.
Sorry if you are reading this more than once. I'm going to post it
on a few boards.>>>>>>
Please come and post it over on AlwaysUnschooled. Your kids are the ages
that this list focuses on. I only have one dd, but on that list we have a
bunch of families with several close in age youngsters.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release Date: 12/15/2004
joylyn
hlf30 wrote:
It's normal for us to feel "sick" when we know that what we did was not
so hot. Guilt is there for a reason, take the guilt and go with it.
even sisters who are being a pain. This has been rule from day one and
the girls never hit each other. They occassionally get rough, but it's
rare and immediately stopped (usually be the girls). Occassionally
Janene hits me, when angry, and I simply hold her hands and say "I'm not
to be hit, I don't like to be hit, I don't hit you when I am angry, you
cannot hit me, etc." and then I bring her into my arms and love her and
hold her tight ( hard to hit if you are being hugged tightly and
lovingly).
The word NO is not a bad word. It can be your friend. Say NO once in a
while. Not a lot, mind you. We negotiate, and compromise and I say yes
probably 99% of the time, but No is a word I can use and do use.
We don't use time out in our house but we do take it a lot. I take a
time out, to regroup, to breath, to just take a few minutes for myself,
and I teach my children to do the same. When the girls are having a
tough time together, I encourage time apart. And there is NO HITTING OR
HURTING. Ever. Period. By anyone. by mom or dad or lexie or janene.
If Janene is loosing it we, she and I, go into another quiet room
together and cuddle and talk. Lexie and I will do the same, although
she rarely looses it in the same manner. Lexie needs a different type
of time, usually a big bear hug holding her tight will help her regain
her emotions. Janene needs more space, most of the time, and so we have
to leave the room for a bit so she can have that space. Also, she needs
to vent and then calm down and then can talk about solutions. Lexie can
be hugged and then the solutions can help her to calm down, to see that
there are other options, choices, ideas.
Sometimes if you can figure out what the need was, you can prevent the
behavior. One thing we do is talk about it afterwards.... Here are some
questions we use..
what happened?
Do you know why that happened? (sometimes they can figure it out,
sometimes they have no clue, you might help them out, were you feeling
like you need mommy and you didn't like it that your brother was
there?--this question can often not be answered...)
How could you have handled it differently? How could *I*, the
mom/dad/adult, have handled it differently?
Next time how could we handle this situation so the outcome would be
different? (Sometimes you have to give them the words to say, instead
of the kick... instead you could say "mom I really need your attention
now please.)
child?
bit of everything.
voice... This is the time maybe to take a time out, everyone breath,
let's find a solution...
Two great books How to Talk so Kids will Listen... another one about
siblings... I'll think of it in a minute.
other things... attention?
mature.
How often do you go to park days? Do you live where it's cold right now
and outdoor play isn't available? Sounds like more energy expending
might be in order too.
oh, here is that other book... Siblings Without Rivalry: How to Help
Your Children Live Together So You Can Live Too
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380799006/qid=1103175177/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-8085807-7438550>
-- by Adele Faber, Elaine Mazlish; Paperback (Rate it
<javascript:amz_js_PopWin('/exec/obidos/tg/stores/recs/rate-this-asin/-/0380799006/rate/no-refresh/ref=pd_rate_lk_rate_search/102-8085807-7438550','RecsWhyWindow','width=480,height=450,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,status=yes')>)
Joylyn
>This happens. It's a stressful time.
> Please help me. I'm shaking and crying. I just blew up at my kids
> big time.
> I'm just sick.And this is also OK, cause if you weren't sick I'd be more worried.
It's normal for us to feel "sick" when we know that what we did was not
so hot. Guilt is there for a reason, take the guilt and go with it.
>Hitting. Not allowed in my family. We don't hit people or animals or
> Background-4 kids-ds9, ds7, ds5, dd2
> Have homeschooled all along. I've always been relaxed, but gradually
> shifted to unschooling.
>
> My kids fight all the time. I repeat, all the time. They fight over
> everything. I'm going insane. Here are examples just from today:
>
> I'm on the couch reading to dd2 while ds7 is building with blocks at
> my feet. Dd5 comes into the room sort of walking/wiggling/being a
> little boy. As he gets closer to me I say, "Be Careful of ds7's
> tower." At that point he wiggles his hips extra hard and his leg
> knocks over the whole thing. Ds7 jumps on him from behind and
> tackles him. "How come you knocked over my tower??!!!" (hit,
> hit) "Leave my stuff alone" (hit,hit) Ds5 starts sobbing.
>
even sisters who are being a pain. This has been rule from day one and
the girls never hit each other. They occassionally get rough, but it's
rare and immediately stopped (usually be the girls). Occassionally
Janene hits me, when angry, and I simply hold her hands and say "I'm not
to be hit, I don't like to be hit, I don't hit you when I am angry, you
cannot hit me, etc." and then I bring her into my arms and love her and
hold her tight ( hard to hit if you are being hugged tightly and
lovingly).
The word NO is not a bad word. It can be your friend. Say NO once in a
while. Not a lot, mind you. We negotiate, and compromise and I say yes
probably 99% of the time, but No is a word I can use and do use.
We don't use time out in our house but we do take it a lot. I take a
time out, to regroup, to breath, to just take a few minutes for myself,
and I teach my children to do the same. When the girls are having a
tough time together, I encourage time apart. And there is NO HITTING OR
HURTING. Ever. Period. By anyone. by mom or dad or lexie or janene.
If Janene is loosing it we, she and I, go into another quiet room
together and cuddle and talk. Lexie and I will do the same, although
she rarely looses it in the same manner. Lexie needs a different type
of time, usually a big bear hug holding her tight will help her regain
her emotions. Janene needs more space, most of the time, and so we have
to leave the room for a bit so she can have that space. Also, she needs
to vent and then calm down and then can talk about solutions. Lexie can
be hugged and then the solutions can help her to calm down, to see that
there are other options, choices, ideas.
> Later.This sounds like your five year old needed some attention, too.
>
> I'm sitting down and ds7 comes over to show me something he just read
> in a magazine. While he's talking to me ds5 comes and leans on ds7
> hard enough for him to fall over. I said `Please stop'. He didn't,
> knocked ds7 over, ds7 got up and kicked ds5.
>
Sometimes if you can figure out what the need was, you can prevent the
behavior. One thing we do is talk about it afterwards.... Here are some
questions we use..
what happened?
Do you know why that happened? (sometimes they can figure it out,
sometimes they have no clue, you might help them out, were you feeling
like you need mommy and you didn't like it that your brother was
there?--this question can often not be answered...)
How could you have handled it differently? How could *I*, the
mom/dad/adult, have handled it differently?
Next time how could we handle this situation so the outcome would be
different? (Sometimes you have to give them the words to say, instead
of the kick... instead you could say "mom I really need your attention
now please.)
> Later.They couldn't share? You could'nt have made a 2nd bowl for the other
>
> I'm making brownies as we're going to a friend's house for supper.
> I'm starting the filling and ds9 calls "Can I like the filling bowl
> when you're done?" I say yes. Ds7 pipes up "Hey, I want to lick the
> filling bowl." I say "You can lick the frosting bowl when I make
> that this afternoon." Ds5 says "Hey that's not fair! I want
> something to lick." I say "Well you can help me make the frosting."
> OK everything seems fine.
>
child?
> I make the filling, give the bowl to ds9. Ds7 says "can't I haveIf it's lickable, then why not make a bit more and let everyone have a
> just a little?" "No!" says ds9, "Mom said I could have it." Later
> when I give the frosting bowl to ds7, ds 5 starts crying "How come I
> don't have anything to lick?" I ask ds7 if he'd like to share. Of
> course, he wouldn't. Now dd2 starts crying...she wants to lick
> something. I have nothing more to offer! Everyone is mad.
bit of everything.
> Later.I sometimes sing "you don't always get what you want..." Bad singing
>
> Dd2 asks for a poptart. I say yes and get it for her. There's two
> left in the package. (you already know what's coming, right?) I
> hand her one; she asks for the other. She has never, never, never
> eaten more than one pop tart, she gets too full. I tell her to eat
> the first one and then we'll see if she's still hungry. At that
> point ds5 grabs the second pop tart off the counter and runs way
> shouting "It's mine It's mine. I'm having this pop tart." Dd 2
> starts screaming. I asked ds5 to please give the pop tart back to me
> and we'd try to work something out. "No" he says and turns around to
> try to hold it out of my reach. I try to grab it and think `this is
> crazy, I'm not going to get into a grabbing match with a 5yo." Now
> ds7 is crying there's no pop tarts left for him and I know ds9 is
> going to throw a huge fit (crying, stomping) when he gets home from a
> friend's house and sees there aren't any left.
>
voice... This is the time maybe to take a time out, everyone breath,
let's find a solution...
Two great books How to Talk so Kids will Listen... another one about
siblings... I'll think of it in a minute.
> I suppose I could go buy more Pop tarts at the store, but I couldn'tIs this really about poptarts? I don't think so. I think it's about
> go this exact minute and when would it end. How many pop tarts would
> I have to buy to make everyone happy?
>
other things... attention?
> I finally just blew up and yelled and stomped out of the room andActually, I think modeling leaving and taking time away to regroup is
> into my bedroom where I locked the door. Not the most mature thing,
mature.
> but I was scared I was going to abuse my children if I didn't leaveI think they need help on learning how to get along...
> the room NOW.
>
> This is just a small sampling. It's all the time. Fighting over
> everything, being so cruel to one another. Sometimes I feel they'd
> be better off on a ps playground then home with siblings.
>
How often do you go to park days? Do you live where it's cold right now
and outdoor play isn't available? Sounds like more energy expending
might be in order too.
oh, here is that other book... Siblings Without Rivalry: How to Help
Your Children Live Together So You Can Live Too
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380799006/qid=1103175177/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-8085807-7438550>
-- by Adele Faber, Elaine Mazlish; Paperback (Rate it
<javascript:amz_js_PopWin('/exec/obidos/tg/stores/recs/rate-this-asin/-/0380799006/rate/no-refresh/ref=pd_rate_lk_rate_search/102-8085807-7438550','RecsWhyWindow','width=480,height=450,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,status=yes')>)
Joylyn
> I've read these boards for years. I try to breathe. I say Yes[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> whenever I can. I try to be gentle and calm. I try to give everyone
> tons of attention. I'm just stretched too thin. I feel as if
> someone is always whining or crying or complaining or grumbling.
>
> I'm at the end of my rope. Sandra, Ren, Kelly, others....please help.
> Sorry if you are reading this more than once. I'm going to post it
> on a few boards.
>
> Fonty
>
>
>
>
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Rachael VerNooy
Fonty,
Let me first say that I is HARD WORK to take good care of several young
children at once, and that in my experience, it gets much easier as
they get older. So take heart--it won't be like this forever.
Anything you can do to reduce the pressure for the next few years will
help: relax even more on housework standards, reduce obligations to be
places at scheduled times, cut back on responsibilities outside the
family, make sure you fit in time to do something relaxing for you on a
regular basis,...
I have a suggestion that might help in some of the situations you gave:
instead of you deciding what's fair, help the kids decide.
For instance, with the brownie situation, as soon as more than one
child wants to lick the bowl, stop and present the problem to them:
"Two (or three or four) people want to lick the bowl. What can we do?"
At first, you may need to suggest lots of solutions, until they get
practice doing it. These solutions might be: sharing the bowl, making
more batter so there's lots, an even more exciting thing to eat for one
or more children, one licking the frosting bowl later in the day, ...
The key is to make sure everyone is happy before implementing a
solution. This gets the kids starting to do this kind of
problem-solving for themselves, and the family expectation starts to be
that everyone is happy with a solution. Now of course everyone won't
always be happy, but that's what you want to aim for.
Rachael
Let me first say that I is HARD WORK to take good care of several young
children at once, and that in my experience, it gets much easier as
they get older. So take heart--it won't be like this forever.
Anything you can do to reduce the pressure for the next few years will
help: relax even more on housework standards, reduce obligations to be
places at scheduled times, cut back on responsibilities outside the
family, make sure you fit in time to do something relaxing for you on a
regular basis,...
I have a suggestion that might help in some of the situations you gave:
instead of you deciding what's fair, help the kids decide.
For instance, with the brownie situation, as soon as more than one
child wants to lick the bowl, stop and present the problem to them:
"Two (or three or four) people want to lick the bowl. What can we do?"
At first, you may need to suggest lots of solutions, until they get
practice doing it. These solutions might be: sharing the bowl, making
more batter so there's lots, an even more exciting thing to eat for one
or more children, one licking the frosting bowl later in the day, ...
The key is to make sure everyone is happy before implementing a
solution. This gets the kids starting to do this kind of
problem-solving for themselves, and the family expectation starts to be
that everyone is happy with a solution. Now of course everyone won't
always be happy, but that's what you want to aim for.
Rachael
[email protected]
-=I finally just blew up and yelled and stomped out of the room and
into my bedroom where I locked the door. Not the most mature thing,
but I was scared I was going to abuse my children if I didn't leave
the room NOW.-=-
That's not so bad. Maybe depends what you yelled, but declaring that you're
really angry and tired of the whole deal and can't believe they fight so much
and slamming a door isn't so bad. I hope it's not, because I've done it
myself a couple of times in the past couple of months. Yeah, could've been
better, but could have been worse.
But the real better thing to do is to see what you can do to make things
better in the future:
<< I suppose I could go buy more Pop tarts at the store, but I couldn't
go this exact minute and when would it end. How many pop tarts would
I have to buy to make everyone happy? >>
Enough that nobody is entirely left out.
If you bought chicken strips or french fries would you give them all to one
kid, or to all the kids but one?
-=-Dd2 asks for a poptart. I say yes and get it for her. There's two
left in the package. (you already know what's coming, right?) -=-
My kids would be okay with this, but they're older and they've had years of
knowing there will be more. I still sometimes ask if someone else minds if
Holly has the last of something. Or if someone else is around and one's making
Ramen or something it will usually be offered (two packs cooked instead of
one). And the kids will offer too, not just me, because I modelled it for years
and suggested it for years.
That sharing can come, but until then you need to be the one who oversees
fairness. And fairness doesn't mean measuring or counting, it means
consideration.
With licking a bowl, leave enough on the beaters or spoons that others can
get something, or get another whole spoon and get some on that too. Giving the
whole thing to one kid seems to be a parental error, not kid-unreasonability.
-=-As he gets closer to me I say, "Be Careful of ds7's
tower." At that point he wiggles his hips extra hard and his leg
knocks over the whole thing. Ds7 jumps on him from behind and
tackles him. "How come you knocked over my tower??!!!" (hit,
hit) "Leave my stuff alone" (hit,hit) Ds5 starts sobbing.-=-
That's a harder one. I would've gotten the younger one to sit by me and
told the older one that I would've been on his side entirely if he hadn't jumped
up and tackled and hit. And then I would've asked the midkid if he did it on
purpose or accidentally, and talk about prevention of accidents. Accident
doesn't excuse total carelessness. Me being me, I would probably talk about
the difference between murder and manslaughter and tell them people can go to
prison for manslaughter too. And that would be distracting enough and meable
enough th
Z*at in the future he might consider "blockslaughter" and not walk within
touching-distance of others' block towers.
-=-While he's talking to me ds5 comes and leans on ds7
hard enough for him to fall over. I said `Please stop'. He didn't,
knocked ds7 over, ds7 got up and kicked ds5.-=-
The seven year old seems to be feeling crowded. Maybe you need some time
with just him, to discuss being older and feeling displaced. Be sympathetic.
YOU kept him from being the youngest before he was ready to give that up. I
used to tell Kirby that his being mean and physical with Marty didn't make him
or Marty better people, and it was making my own life harder. He could
understand that. He didn't always consider it foremost when he was about to hit,
but sometimes he did.
When you talk to an older child, don't mention how much you love the younger
children or that they're just as important. Lean toward how much you love HIM
and then act it, too. I was a firstborn and really resented my sister and
the attention she got when she came along. Any messages that I was wrong to
feel that just made me dislike my mom more, and resent it more. I was dumped for
a new kid, that was all. And I bet your kids, being so near in age, feel
that too. And the seven year old doesn't even have the comfort of being oldest.
Find special attentions for him.
Sandra
into my bedroom where I locked the door. Not the most mature thing,
but I was scared I was going to abuse my children if I didn't leave
the room NOW.-=-
That's not so bad. Maybe depends what you yelled, but declaring that you're
really angry and tired of the whole deal and can't believe they fight so much
and slamming a door isn't so bad. I hope it's not, because I've done it
myself a couple of times in the past couple of months. Yeah, could've been
better, but could have been worse.
But the real better thing to do is to see what you can do to make things
better in the future:
<< I suppose I could go buy more Pop tarts at the store, but I couldn't
go this exact minute and when would it end. How many pop tarts would
I have to buy to make everyone happy? >>
Enough that nobody is entirely left out.
If you bought chicken strips or french fries would you give them all to one
kid, or to all the kids but one?
-=-Dd2 asks for a poptart. I say yes and get it for her. There's two
left in the package. (you already know what's coming, right?) -=-
My kids would be okay with this, but they're older and they've had years of
knowing there will be more. I still sometimes ask if someone else minds if
Holly has the last of something. Or if someone else is around and one's making
Ramen or something it will usually be offered (two packs cooked instead of
one). And the kids will offer too, not just me, because I modelled it for years
and suggested it for years.
That sharing can come, but until then you need to be the one who oversees
fairness. And fairness doesn't mean measuring or counting, it means
consideration.
With licking a bowl, leave enough on the beaters or spoons that others can
get something, or get another whole spoon and get some on that too. Giving the
whole thing to one kid seems to be a parental error, not kid-unreasonability.
-=-As he gets closer to me I say, "Be Careful of ds7's
tower." At that point he wiggles his hips extra hard and his leg
knocks over the whole thing. Ds7 jumps on him from behind and
tackles him. "How come you knocked over my tower??!!!" (hit,
hit) "Leave my stuff alone" (hit,hit) Ds5 starts sobbing.-=-
That's a harder one. I would've gotten the younger one to sit by me and
told the older one that I would've been on his side entirely if he hadn't jumped
up and tackled and hit. And then I would've asked the midkid if he did it on
purpose or accidentally, and talk about prevention of accidents. Accident
doesn't excuse total carelessness. Me being me, I would probably talk about
the difference between murder and manslaughter and tell them people can go to
prison for manslaughter too. And that would be distracting enough and meable
enough th
Z*at in the future he might consider "blockslaughter" and not walk within
touching-distance of others' block towers.
-=-While he's talking to me ds5 comes and leans on ds7
hard enough for him to fall over. I said `Please stop'. He didn't,
knocked ds7 over, ds7 got up and kicked ds5.-=-
The seven year old seems to be feeling crowded. Maybe you need some time
with just him, to discuss being older and feeling displaced. Be sympathetic.
YOU kept him from being the youngest before he was ready to give that up. I
used to tell Kirby that his being mean and physical with Marty didn't make him
or Marty better people, and it was making my own life harder. He could
understand that. He didn't always consider it foremost when he was about to hit,
but sometimes he did.
When you talk to an older child, don't mention how much you love the younger
children or that they're just as important. Lean toward how much you love HIM
and then act it, too. I was a firstborn and really resented my sister and
the attention she got when she came along. Any messages that I was wrong to
feel that just made me dislike my mom more, and resent it more. I was dumped for
a new kid, that was all. And I bet your kids, being so near in age, feel
that too. And the seven year old doesn't even have the comfort of being oldest.
Find special attentions for him.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/15/04 4:53:34 PM, sylgt04@... writes:
<< For him, it's partly a sensory issue and as such he just doesn't get that
other people have greater needs for personal space than he does. It may take
regular attention on your part to remind him to give others a wide berth. >>
Oh, good point!
That makes it a principle instead of a rule.
"Some people don't like to be touched much," or "Some people feel crowded if
you stand too close" is better information than "Stay 18 inches from other
humans." Some people don't need 18" and some need three feet.
Sandra
<< For him, it's partly a sensory issue and as such he just doesn't get that
other people have greater needs for personal space than he does. It may take
regular attention on your part to remind him to give others a wide berth. >>
Oh, good point!
That makes it a principle instead of a rule.
"Some people don't like to be touched much," or "Some people feel crowded if
you stand too close" is better information than "Stay 18 inches from other
humans." Some people don't need 18" and some need three feet.
Sandra
Mary
There has been some great advice given here on this whole matter. There's
only one more thing I can think of to help. Seems like the actions here with
your children can be pretty predictable now. I can almost tell all the time
with my kids when a problem is coming now. Head it off.
Sometimes that child just really wants to see that tower of blocks come
crashing down no matter who built it or how much trouble they could possibly
get into. Jumping up or running over and scooping up the child ahead of time
with hugs and kisses can do the trick. Or even talking about how cool it
would be to see that tower fall but so and so would be upset. Then build a
tower yourself for knocking over. Sometimes it takes just minutes to thwart
the oncoming problem. Actually even seconds. And that's not so bad a time to
take away from what you were doing to maintain peace.
Same with food and toys and such. Plenty of time there is only one bagel
when 2 kids want one. Share. And then my kids know right away that the item
is on my list for next time shopping. When something is the last, I comment
on it right away. Telling each child this is it and so and so is having it
or asking if anyone wants to partake of the last of it. The kids know more
is coming and appreciate being considered.
Heading off the bad stuff when you know it's coming is more than half the
solution in my opinion. After awhile of that, the kids can do it themselves.
They see less problems and can figure out solutions on their own after
having help with it.
Mary B
only one more thing I can think of to help. Seems like the actions here with
your children can be pretty predictable now. I can almost tell all the time
with my kids when a problem is coming now. Head it off.
Sometimes that child just really wants to see that tower of blocks come
crashing down no matter who built it or how much trouble they could possibly
get into. Jumping up or running over and scooping up the child ahead of time
with hugs and kisses can do the trick. Or even talking about how cool it
would be to see that tower fall but so and so would be upset. Then build a
tower yourself for knocking over. Sometimes it takes just minutes to thwart
the oncoming problem. Actually even seconds. And that's not so bad a time to
take away from what you were doing to maintain peace.
Same with food and toys and such. Plenty of time there is only one bagel
when 2 kids want one. Share. And then my kids know right away that the item
is on my list for next time shopping. When something is the last, I comment
on it right away. Telling each child this is it and so and so is having it
or asking if anyone wants to partake of the last of it. The kids know more
is coming and appreciate being considered.
Heading off the bad stuff when you know it's coming is more than half the
solution in my opinion. After awhile of that, the kids can do it themselves.
They see less problems and can figure out solutions on their own after
having help with it.
Mary B
Gia Omari
Fonty,
i only have two small kids 3.5 and 10 months and it is
soooooo hard for me somedays. You are a superwoman of
sorts to me. Please find time each day to celebrate
the things that you have done well. You deserve a pat
on the back, also forgive yourself for the things that
you are trying to change in the household. From what
I hear from mommies in your situation- IT TAKES TIME.
I think you are awesome from what I can read! Is
there any way that you could steal time alone each
day? That might help doing something that makes you
happy- that is just yours. Sometimes I feel like the
world believes I do not deserve that time, and I fel
guilty when I want it, but then I remember that this
is the most important job (for me) and that in order
to give my best I must rejuvenate myself. I don't
know if this is possible, but if it is get out of the
house by yourself every now and then!
Hope this helps a bit,
Gia
Rachel,
that was great advice about trying to help them solve
the problems. I will have to use that when my boys
are a bit older. :)
Gia
--- Rachael VerNooy <rachaelvernooy@...>
wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
i only have two small kids 3.5 and 10 months and it is
soooooo hard for me somedays. You are a superwoman of
sorts to me. Please find time each day to celebrate
the things that you have done well. You deserve a pat
on the back, also forgive yourself for the things that
you are trying to change in the household. From what
I hear from mommies in your situation- IT TAKES TIME.
I think you are awesome from what I can read! Is
there any way that you could steal time alone each
day? That might help doing something that makes you
happy- that is just yours. Sometimes I feel like the
world believes I do not deserve that time, and I fel
guilty when I want it, but then I remember that this
is the most important job (for me) and that in order
to give my best I must rejuvenate myself. I don't
know if this is possible, but if it is get out of the
house by yourself every now and then!
Hope this helps a bit,
Gia
Rachel,
that was great advice about trying to help them solve
the problems. I will have to use that when my boys
are a bit older. :)
Gia
--- Rachael VerNooy <rachaelvernooy@...>
wrote:
> Fonty,__________________________________
>
> Let me first say that I is HARD WORK to take good
> care of several young
> children at once, and that in my experience, it gets
> much easier as
> they get older. So take heart--it won't be like this
> forever.
>
> Anything you can do to reduce the pressure for the
> next few years will
> help: relax even more on housework standards, reduce
> obligations to be
> places at scheduled times, cut back on
> responsibilities outside the
> family, make sure you fit in time to do something
> relaxing for you on a
> regular basis,...
>
> I have a suggestion that might help in some of the
> situations you gave:
> instead of you deciding what's fair, help the kids
> decide.
>
> For instance, with the brownie situation, as soon as
> more than one
> child wants to lick the bowl, stop and present the
> problem to them:
> "Two (or three or four) people want to lick the
> bowl. What can we do?"
> At first, you may need to suggest lots of solutions,
> until they get
> practice doing it. These solutions might be: sharing
> the bowl, making
> more batter so there's lots, an even more exciting
> thing to eat for one
> or more children, one licking the frosting bowl
> later in the day, ...
> The key is to make sure everyone is happy before
> implementing a
> solution. This gets the kids starting to do this
> kind of
> problem-solving for themselves, and the family
> expectation starts to be
> that everyone is happy with a solution. Now of
> course everyone won't
> always be happy, but that's what you want to aim
> for.
>
> Rachael
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
pam sorooshian
On Dec 16, 2004, at 6:22 AM, Rachael VerNooy wrote:
and consideration and generosity, is the key to the future being way
easier.
Also - separate, in your head, at least, the process of coming up with
LOTS of possible solutions and the picking of which one solution you're
going to try.
So with the this licking the bowl situation - as soon as the second
kid said, "I want it too," then you say, "Brainstorming time - how many
ways can we think of to handle this?" (Notice - how many ways - not
asking for one single way.)
AND - you let the "ways" be goofy ones, too. Here are some that you and
they might come up with:
Take turns - each of us gets a lick, one after the other.
Give it to the dog and let him lick the whole thing and WE have
something else.
Mom scrape it off into separate bowls or on separate spoons so we each
get one.
Johnny gets to lick the bowl but "I" get an extra brownie when they're
done.
We go to the store and get more brownie mix and we don't cook them, we
JUST eat the batter.
Put peanuts in the bowl and smush them all around so they get brownie
mix on them and then divide up the peanuts.
And so on --- no idea too silly - the goal to have LOTS of ideas. VERY
often one of the ideas will just spontaneously be acceptable to all and
you're done.
If none are acceptable - it is WORTH it to take some time to choose one
- you're NOT deciding how to handle the bowl-licking problem - you're
helping them learn problem solving skills that will be probably the
most useful thing they ever learn.
Being "solution-oriented" is a way of life. There are people who see
problems as obstacles and get upset by them and lose their cool in
their frustration and they end up angry. And there are people who see
problems as opportunities to be creative and they're challenged by them
and they end up feeling positive and energized. Which of those do you
want your kids to be?
Some of this is innate temperament, I think, so some of us have to work
harder to be solution-oriented than others, but that's just the way it
is - it CAN be done.
I made "solution-oriented" my mantra. Seriously. I've probably repeated
it to myself a million times since I became a parent. I now hear it in
my head the MINUTE there is a problem - and it reminds me that there
are always lots of potential solutions. It keeps me from sort of
"freezing up" and feeling stuck and lets me keep MY cool and do
something more creative than I could otherwise.
For example, my natural inclination might be to simply say to the other
kid, "He asked first; you can have it next time." Well gee - THAT could
set off world war III in my house - why is asking "first" the deciding
factor AND my kids know that we'll never remember who was supposed to
get it "next time" and that could be far away and so on. Just because
one kid asked "first" - that isn't necessarily a good reason he/she
should get it - maybe the other kid wants it MORE or maybe the other
kid didn't ask first because he wasn't there TO ask or maybe a younger
kid didn't even realize that licking the bowl was something TO ask for
and so on.
Also - last thing -- avoid the thought that this is all so SILLY - kids
fighting over who gets to lick the blankety-blank brownie bowl that has
all of about a spoonful of batter in it, anyway.
This is about far more than that - it is about who feels loved and who
feels left out and establishing how things will be decided in your
family and on and on.
Also - are you sure you couldn't have jumped into the car and gone and
bought more pop tarts when that issue came up? Going WAY out of your
way to do things like that - inconveniencing yourself - is how the kids
will learn to go out of THEIR way to be generous and kind and nice to
others, too.
Sandra once picked me up at the airport and on the way to her house
Holly (who was 6, I think) asked if we could stop and buy some plums.
The first grocery store didn't have any so we drove to another one and
went in and THEY didn't have any either. So Sandra asked if I was too
tired or would I mind if we tried one more store. We did and they did
have plums. She bought a bag full of plums for Holly, who sat in the
back seat very very happily eating plums while Sandra and I talked and
I got to see some of Albuquerque just by driving around.
This seems such a small story - but it was such a BIG moment in my life
because I knew that if MY 6 yo daughter had asked for plums that I'd
have considered that a trivial request at such a time - and put her off
and I'd have not even considered trying three grocery stores just to
get her something she had a sudden, inexplicable urge to eat. Sandra
knew that I was there to hang out with her - and we could do that while
driving around. She was looking at the "reality" as opposed to a
knee-jerk response like, "Holly, you don't need plums now and I'm not
dragging Pam all over Albuquerque from grocery store to grocery store."
THAT would have been thought and maybe said out loud by most moms, I
think.
Again - automatically being "solution-oriented" and thinking of what
CAN be done -- Sandra's first thought was whether or not Holly could
get what she wanted at the same time we got what we wanted and the
answer was EASY. She didn't even know that I LIKE to go to grocery
stores in other parts of the country - I find it fascinating to see
what they have that is different than what I'm used to at home.
-pam
>Fonty - read the above again. THIS, along with adult modeling kindness
> For instance, with the brownie situation, as soon as more than one
> child wants to lick the bowl, stop and present the problem to them:
> "Two (or three or four) people want to lick the bowl. What can we do?"
> At first, you may need to suggest lots of solutions, until they get
> practice doing it. These solutions might be: sharing the bowl, making
> more batter so there's lots, an even more exciting thing to eat for one
> or more children, one licking the frosting bowl later in the day, ...
> The key is to make sure everyone is happy before implementing a
> solution. This gets the kids starting to do this kind of
> problem-solving for themselves, and the family expectation starts to be
> that everyone is happy with a solution. Now of course everyone won't
> always be happy, but that's what you want to aim for.
and consideration and generosity, is the key to the future being way
easier.
Also - separate, in your head, at least, the process of coming up with
LOTS of possible solutions and the picking of which one solution you're
going to try.
So with the this licking the bowl situation - as soon as the second
kid said, "I want it too," then you say, "Brainstorming time - how many
ways can we think of to handle this?" (Notice - how many ways - not
asking for one single way.)
AND - you let the "ways" be goofy ones, too. Here are some that you and
they might come up with:
Take turns - each of us gets a lick, one after the other.
Give it to the dog and let him lick the whole thing and WE have
something else.
Mom scrape it off into separate bowls or on separate spoons so we each
get one.
Johnny gets to lick the bowl but "I" get an extra brownie when they're
done.
We go to the store and get more brownie mix and we don't cook them, we
JUST eat the batter.
Put peanuts in the bowl and smush them all around so they get brownie
mix on them and then divide up the peanuts.
And so on --- no idea too silly - the goal to have LOTS of ideas. VERY
often one of the ideas will just spontaneously be acceptable to all and
you're done.
If none are acceptable - it is WORTH it to take some time to choose one
- you're NOT deciding how to handle the bowl-licking problem - you're
helping them learn problem solving skills that will be probably the
most useful thing they ever learn.
Being "solution-oriented" is a way of life. There are people who see
problems as obstacles and get upset by them and lose their cool in
their frustration and they end up angry. And there are people who see
problems as opportunities to be creative and they're challenged by them
and they end up feeling positive and energized. Which of those do you
want your kids to be?
Some of this is innate temperament, I think, so some of us have to work
harder to be solution-oriented than others, but that's just the way it
is - it CAN be done.
I made "solution-oriented" my mantra. Seriously. I've probably repeated
it to myself a million times since I became a parent. I now hear it in
my head the MINUTE there is a problem - and it reminds me that there
are always lots of potential solutions. It keeps me from sort of
"freezing up" and feeling stuck and lets me keep MY cool and do
something more creative than I could otherwise.
For example, my natural inclination might be to simply say to the other
kid, "He asked first; you can have it next time." Well gee - THAT could
set off world war III in my house - why is asking "first" the deciding
factor AND my kids know that we'll never remember who was supposed to
get it "next time" and that could be far away and so on. Just because
one kid asked "first" - that isn't necessarily a good reason he/she
should get it - maybe the other kid wants it MORE or maybe the other
kid didn't ask first because he wasn't there TO ask or maybe a younger
kid didn't even realize that licking the bowl was something TO ask for
and so on.
Also - last thing -- avoid the thought that this is all so SILLY - kids
fighting over who gets to lick the blankety-blank brownie bowl that has
all of about a spoonful of batter in it, anyway.
This is about far more than that - it is about who feels loved and who
feels left out and establishing how things will be decided in your
family and on and on.
Also - are you sure you couldn't have jumped into the car and gone and
bought more pop tarts when that issue came up? Going WAY out of your
way to do things like that - inconveniencing yourself - is how the kids
will learn to go out of THEIR way to be generous and kind and nice to
others, too.
Sandra once picked me up at the airport and on the way to her house
Holly (who was 6, I think) asked if we could stop and buy some plums.
The first grocery store didn't have any so we drove to another one and
went in and THEY didn't have any either. So Sandra asked if I was too
tired or would I mind if we tried one more store. We did and they did
have plums. She bought a bag full of plums for Holly, who sat in the
back seat very very happily eating plums while Sandra and I talked and
I got to see some of Albuquerque just by driving around.
This seems such a small story - but it was such a BIG moment in my life
because I knew that if MY 6 yo daughter had asked for plums that I'd
have considered that a trivial request at such a time - and put her off
and I'd have not even considered trying three grocery stores just to
get her something she had a sudden, inexplicable urge to eat. Sandra
knew that I was there to hang out with her - and we could do that while
driving around. She was looking at the "reality" as opposed to a
knee-jerk response like, "Holly, you don't need plums now and I'm not
dragging Pam all over Albuquerque from grocery store to grocery store."
THAT would have been thought and maybe said out loud by most moms, I
think.
Again - automatically being "solution-oriented" and thinking of what
CAN be done -- Sandra's first thought was whether or not Holly could
get what she wanted at the same time we got what we wanted and the
answer was EASY. She didn't even know that I LIKE to go to grocery
stores in other parts of the country - I find it fascinating to see
what they have that is different than what I'm used to at home.
-pam
diana jenner
hlf30 wrote:
survived. Moms blow up, we're human, we have needs and we're not always
rantional creatures. Are your needs being met? When was *your* last
break? - a real one, curled up at the coffee shop with a great book [my
last favorite spare 1/2 hour] or whatever renews/recharges/refreshes
your spirit.
bowl.
I can only focus on how to head them off in the future. What's worked
for us is talking after it's over and calm, but before it's forgotten. I
use these overwhelming situations as examples of when Mommy needs to
call a TIME OUT for herself and everyone drops the fight until she pulls
herself together. (which in this case would mean ds5 would return the
poptart until mom was calm enough to assess/deal/explain the situation)
I have the mommy's time out talk with them regularly when tensions are
high and assure them that they, too, have the option of calling a time
out when situations spiral out of control and understanding.
enlightened to me! Buy the peaceful parenting tape - I hear Sandra's
voice: Never act until your brain gives you more than one choice. --
great advice!
from a place where I take the whole child into account, the whole
child's life, when I deal with them. My goals are for life-long peace
and joy... the teachers/ps staff don't have the time or energy to do
that...
Trying isn't doing, if you're doing, then give yourself credit and say,
"I breathe" "I'm gentle and calm" "I give attention" -- you can only DO
your best, whatever that means on any given day in any given situation,
no it doesn't mean being 100% perfect - it means if you have only 37% of
your capacity today, you give all 37%, tomorrow it may be 59% or even 3%
but give what you've got. [I love The Four Agreements by Don Miguel
Ruiz] Though our goal is to have a peaceful family/existence, we can't
just wake up and have that ideal -- we need to journey to get there, by
today being MORE peaceful than yesterday, an easy and lofty goal. At my
house, sometimes that means 15 fights instead of yesterday's 16. [again,
advice I gleaned from the Peaceful Parenting tape]
up on?? Big example from my own life: Thanksgiving is the beginning of
my annual grief cycle, culminating around December 3 (dh's death day
anniversary). This year, we've got a new guy in our life so I kept quiet
about what I know to be the hardest couple of weeks of the year,
convincing myself I'll just be able to keep it together. Weeeeellllllll,
as you can imagine, a mommy who is barely able to function at dinner is
not a mommy who has /any/ available energy to tend to the needs of her
children. Hayden was in rare form, agitated, needy, aggressive and
crabby. I was so afraid that I would fall apart if I opened my mouth, I
was NO gentle or calm assurance to my little guy. Anything I did say
came out quickly and angrily. I did end up screeching at them both
before we went to sleep... the tirade lasted long enough for the entire
facade to be broken, I cried and cried, admitted to being more sad than
mad... then told the kids (for the first time, Hannah exclaimed!)
stories of their dad and me and why Thanksgiving is so important... A
bit ass-backward, I could have avoided the whole ding dang thing by
having the "it's important and I'm gonna be sad, so be gentle with me"
talk for the week(s) prior. Luckily, we're a week into mommy having her
head out of her ass (which is how it feels to climb out from under
grief) and we're back to being normal -- which doesn't mean perfect, but
the situations as you described are down to once-every-other-day-ish
instead of several times daily.
:) diana
>Please help me. I'm shaking and crying. I just blew up at my kidsI have days like this... sometimes several in a row... so far, we've all
>big time. I'm just sick.
>
>My kids fight all the time. I repeat, all the time. They fight over
>everything. I'm going insane. Here are examples just from today:
>
>
survived. Moms blow up, we're human, we have needs and we're not always
rantional creatures. Are your needs being met? When was *your* last
break? - a real one, curled up at the coffee shop with a great book [my
last favorite spare 1/2 hour] or whatever renews/recharges/refreshes
your spirit.
>I make the filling, give the bowl to ds9. Ds7 says "can't I haveNext time hand out spoons with the backs coated and rinse out the dirty
>just a little?" "No!" says ds9, "Mom said I could have it." Later
>when I give the frosting bowl to ds7, ds 5 starts crying "How come I
>don't have anything to lick?" I ask ds7 if he'd like to share. Of
>course, he wouldn't. Now dd2 starts crying…she wants to lick
>something. I have nothing more to offer! Everyone is mad.
>
>
bowl.
>Dd2 asks for a poptart. I say yes and get it for her. There's twoIn the heat of the moment, I'm afraid I have no advice... just empathy- btdt
>left in the package. (you already know what's coming, right?) I
>hand her one; she asks for the other. She has never, never, never
>eaten more than one pop tart, she gets too full. I tell her to eat
>the first one and then we'll see if she's still hungry. At that
>point ds5 grabs the second pop tart off the counter and runs way
>shouting "It's mine It's mine. I'm having this pop tart." Dd 2
>starts screaming. I asked ds5 to please give the pop tart back to me
>and we'd try to work something out. "No" he says and turns around to
>try to hold it out of my reach. I try to grab it and think `this is
>crazy, I'm not going to get into a grabbing match with a 5yo." Now
>ds7 is crying there's no pop tarts left for him and I know ds9 is
>going to throw a huge fit (crying, stomping) when he gets home from a
>friend's house and sees there aren't any left.
>
>I suppose I could go buy more Pop tarts at the store, but I couldn't
>go this exact minute and when would it end. How many pop tarts would
>I have to buy to make everyone happy?
>
>
I can only focus on how to head them off in the future. What's worked
for us is talking after it's over and calm, but before it's forgotten. I
use these overwhelming situations as examples of when Mommy needs to
call a TIME OUT for herself and everyone drops the fight until she pulls
herself together. (which in this case would mean ds5 would return the
poptart until mom was calm enough to assess/deal/explain the situation)
I have the mommy's time out talk with them regularly when tensions are
high and assure them that they, too, have the option of calling a time
out when situations spiral out of control and understanding.
>I finally just blew up and yelled and stomped out of the room andYou had two choices and you chose the one least damaging... sounds
>into my bedroom where I locked the door. Not the most mature thing,
>but I was scared I was going to abuse my children if I didn't leave
>the room NOW.
>
>
enlightened to me! Buy the peaceful parenting tape - I hear Sandra's
voice: Never act until your brain gives you more than one choice. --
great advice!
>This is just a small sampling. It's all the time. Fighting overWhenever I think the same thing, I remember that at least *I* am coming
>everything, being so cruel to one another. Sometimes I feel they'd
>be better off on a ps playground then home with siblings.
>
>
from a place where I take the whole child into account, the whole
child's life, when I deal with them. My goals are for life-long peace
and joy... the teachers/ps staff don't have the time or energy to do
that...
>I try to breathe."At our house, we trust Yoda" -- Hayden, at about age 3 <bg>
>
Trying isn't doing, if you're doing, then give yourself credit and say,
"I breathe" "I'm gentle and calm" "I give attention" -- you can only DO
your best, whatever that means on any given day in any given situation,
no it doesn't mean being 100% perfect - it means if you have only 37% of
your capacity today, you give all 37%, tomorrow it may be 59% or even 3%
but give what you've got. [I love The Four Agreements by Don Miguel
Ruiz] Though our goal is to have a peaceful family/existence, we can't
just wake up and have that ideal -- we need to journey to get there, by
today being MORE peaceful than yesterday, an easy and lofty goal. At my
house, sometimes that means 15 fights instead of yesterday's 16. [again,
advice I gleaned from the Peaceful Parenting tape]
>I say Yes whenever I can. I try to be gentle and calm. I try to give everyoneIs something bothering you that you think your children aren't picking
>tons of attention. I'm just stretched too thin. I feel as if
>someone is always whining or crying or complaining or grumbling.
>
>
up on?? Big example from my own life: Thanksgiving is the beginning of
my annual grief cycle, culminating around December 3 (dh's death day
anniversary). This year, we've got a new guy in our life so I kept quiet
about what I know to be the hardest couple of weeks of the year,
convincing myself I'll just be able to keep it together. Weeeeellllllll,
as you can imagine, a mommy who is barely able to function at dinner is
not a mommy who has /any/ available energy to tend to the needs of her
children. Hayden was in rare form, agitated, needy, aggressive and
crabby. I was so afraid that I would fall apart if I opened my mouth, I
was NO gentle or calm assurance to my little guy. Anything I did say
came out quickly and angrily. I did end up screeching at them both
before we went to sleep... the tirade lasted long enough for the entire
facade to be broken, I cried and cried, admitted to being more sad than
mad... then told the kids (for the first time, Hannah exclaimed!)
stories of their dad and me and why Thanksgiving is so important... A
bit ass-backward, I could have avoided the whole ding dang thing by
having the "it's important and I'm gonna be sad, so be gentle with me"
talk for the week(s) prior. Luckily, we're a week into mommy having her
head out of her ass (which is how it feels to climb out from under
grief) and we're back to being normal -- which doesn't mean perfect, but
the situations as you described are down to once-every-other-day-ish
instead of several times daily.
>I'm at the end of my rope.Tie a knot and swing! <g>
>
:) diana
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/2004 1:07:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
I made "solution-oriented" my mantra. Seriously. I've probably repeated
it to myself a million times since I became a parent. I now hear it in
my head the MINUTE there is a problem - and it reminds me that there
are always lots of potential solutions. It keeps me from sort of
"freezing up" and feeling stuck and lets me keep MY cool and do
something more creative than I could otherwise.<<<<
Pam's advice is really good.
And if you can state---out loud----"There are NO problems, only SOLUTIONS"
over and over, the children will start thinking so too.
I wrote earlier that I don't have these problems with my boys: their eight
year age difference really makes a difference! But I *do* have these
situations IRL with adults. I have lots of temperaments to work with and lots of egos
to stroke ----not to mention my *own*! <g> My end goal is that everyone is
happy. But to me it's not a *problem*: I just have a lot of different solutions
to sort through to get what I ultimately need/want---happy speakers and
happy attendees! <bwg>
I just try not to look at these situations as problems to overcome but as
solutions to find/sort through.
Again----great advice from Pam, but I'd add to do it out loud----let them
*hear* you problem-solving and let them join in.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
I made "solution-oriented" my mantra. Seriously. I've probably repeated
it to myself a million times since I became a parent. I now hear it in
my head the MINUTE there is a problem - and it reminds me that there
are always lots of potential solutions. It keeps me from sort of
"freezing up" and feeling stuck and lets me keep MY cool and do
something more creative than I could otherwise.<<<<
Pam's advice is really good.
And if you can state---out loud----"There are NO problems, only SOLUTIONS"
over and over, the children will start thinking so too.
I wrote earlier that I don't have these problems with my boys: their eight
year age difference really makes a difference! But I *do* have these
situations IRL with adults. I have lots of temperaments to work with and lots of egos
to stroke ----not to mention my *own*! <g> My end goal is that everyone is
happy. But to me it's not a *problem*: I just have a lot of different solutions
to sort through to get what I ultimately need/want---happy speakers and
happy attendees! <bwg>
I just try not to look at these situations as problems to overcome but as
solutions to find/sort through.
Again----great advice from Pam, but I'd add to do it out loud----let them
*hear* you problem-solving and let them join in.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
>>>>My kids fight all the time. I repeat, all the time>>>>>Nothing happens all the time. When I find myself thinking along those lines, I make it a point to look really hard to notice and comment on the pleasant behavior. Sometimes it can be hard to notice when there is a lot of bickering going on, but it is worth the effort.
Hang in there! I am sometimes overwhelmed with only two children. Realizing that you don't like your behavior in a situation is the first step in changing. I have given myself *time outs* and told the kids I was going in a room by myself until I could calm down. I think it is a valuable thing for children to know that they can leave a volatile situation.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nisha
My best friend travels ALOT. He went to AUstrailia a while back,
England last year, and is going to hong kong and thailand in
February. He always laughs at me, because when he asks me what I
want, I tell him to go to a grocery store and see what he thinks I'd
find interesting that he could bring back for me.
In austrailia, it was violet crumble candy bars. In England, he
picked Harrods. LOL and brought me back some amber sugar and vanilla
sugar in really fancy little jars. I thought they were cool. He also
got me a really cool wine stopper from Strafford on Avon or the
Globe Theatre. I can't wait to see what he comes up with in Thailand
and Hong Kong. (I'm hoping for some really cool material as well as
interesting grocery stuff. LOL)
Nisha
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
She didn't even know that I LIKE to go to grocery
England last year, and is going to hong kong and thailand in
February. He always laughs at me, because when he asks me what I
want, I tell him to go to a grocery store and see what he thinks I'd
find interesting that he could bring back for me.
In austrailia, it was violet crumble candy bars. In England, he
picked Harrods. LOL and brought me back some amber sugar and vanilla
sugar in really fancy little jars. I thought they were cool. He also
got me a really cool wine stopper from Strafford on Avon or the
Globe Theatre. I can't wait to see what he comes up with in Thailand
and Hong Kong. (I'm hoping for some really cool material as well as
interesting grocery stuff. LOL)
Nisha
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
She didn't even know that I LIKE to go to grocery
> stores in other parts of the country - I find it fascinating tosee what they have that is different than what I'm used to at home.
>
>
> -pam
hlf30
--- In [email protected], "Julie Bogart"
<julie@b...> wrote:
Thank you!!
I think you hit the nail on the head. This is so true. I've read so
much about people who thought they were treated unfairly while
children and I didn't want that to happen to my kids.
. I keep thinking of the Faber and
I read that book when my two oldest were preschoolers. I'll put it
on hold at the library today.
I've read about your family doing this before. For the first time it
sunk it and seemed doable. Will work on that.
Isn't that the truth! I felt better just posting here and getting it
out of *my* system.
Thanks for your words of wisdom, Julie. I'll take your post to heart.
Fonty
<julie@b...> wrote:
>*you* and wanted to let
> Hugs from me. {{Fonty}} Just wanted you to know that I saw it was
> you know that I care.------
Thank you!!
> I'm thinking that perhaps what is happening is that you are tryingto be fair all the time
> and the kids are holding you to it.------
I think you hit the nail on the head. This is so true. I've read so
much about people who thought they were treated unfairly while
children and I didn't want that to happen to my kids.
. I keep thinking of the Faber and
> Mazlisch books, especially Siblings Without Rivalry.------
I read that book when my two oldest were preschoolers. I'll put it
on hold at the library today.
> somethien we've done which is extremely time-consuming and yet hasa high yield (and
> we've done it since they were very young), is take upset parties tothe couch. We seat them
> opposite each other and have each one share what is bothering him/her. The speaker
> gets uninterrupted time to say what he or she feels. The listenerneeds to hear all the
> words and say back what is bothering the first one. If he or shemisunderstands, the
> speaker gets to make corrections.------
I've read about your family doing this before. For the first time it
sunk it and seemed doable. Will work on that.
> (sometimes just airing the feelings is enough).------
Isn't that the truth! I felt better just posting here and getting it
out of *my* system.
Thanks for your words of wisdom, Julie. I'll take your post to heart.
Fonty
hlf30
. One thing we do is talk about it afterwards.... Here are some
Good advice. Talking about when everyone is calm. :)
.
Why couldn't I think of that yesterday in the heat of the moment?
Yep.
We live in Minnesota. It's sunny but very icy and about 35 degrees.
I do encourage them to go outside, but they only like to when it's
their idea, not mine.
Thanks for the good advice.
Fonty
> questions we use..------
>
> what happened?
Good advice. Talking about when everyone is calm. :)
.
>>have a
> If it's lickable, then why not make a bit more and let everyone
> bit of everything.------
Why couldn't I think of that yesterday in the heat of the moment?
> >about
> Is this really about poptarts? I don't think so. I think it's
> other things... attention?------
Yep.
>right now
> How often do you go to park days? Do you live where it's cold
> and outdoor play isn't available? Sounds like more energyexpending
> might be in order too.-------
We live in Minnesota. It's sunny but very icy and about 35 degrees.
I do encourage them to go outside, but they only like to when it's
their idea, not mine.
Thanks for the good advice.
Fonty
hlf30
>that you're
> That's not so bad. Maybe depends what you yelled, but declaring
> really angry and tired of the whole deal and can't believe theyfight so much
> and slamming a door isn't so bad. I hope it's not, because I'vedone it
> myself a couple of times in the past couple of months. Yeah,could've been
> better, but could have been worse.------
I yelled something to like "I just can't stand this anymore! You're
on your own!" :(
Glad to hear you've done it too Sandra. I sometimes get the feeling
from old timers on these boards that they've mastered this lifestyle
and it's all hunky-dory now. I forget that *everyone* has bad days.
>things
> But the real better thing to do is to see what you can do to make
> better in the future:-------
Exactly.
> Enough that nobody is entirely left out.all to one
> If you bought chicken strips or french fries would you give them
> kid, or to all the kids but one?------
Good point. I just wasn't thinking clearly, nor have I learned to
plan ahead for situations like this.
> That sharing can come, but until then you need to be the one whooversees
> fairness. And fairness doesn't mean measuring or counting, itmeans
> consideration.-------
I'm going to stick this on my kitchen window (and bathroom mirror and
nightstand and in the van...)
> With licking a bowl, leave enough on the beaters or spoons thatothers can
> get something, or get another whole spoon and get some on thattoo. Giving the
> whole thing to one kid seems to be a parental error, not kid-unreasonability.
------
Ouch. But I needed to hear it.
> The seven year old seems to be feeling crowded. Maybe you needsome time
> with just him, to discuss being older and feeling displaced. Besympathetic.
> YOU kept him from being the youngest before he was ready to givethat up.
-------
I'm very aware that the 7yo ds may be the one to have issues (don't
like how that sounds but don't know how else to phrase it.) He's not
the oldest like #1, he's not the most aggressive and demanding (like
#3) and he's not the only girl (like #4). Does that make sense?
> Find special attentions for him.------
Thanks Sandra. Will do.
Fonty
hlf30
>young
> Let me first say that I is HARD WORK to take good care of several
> children at once, and that in my experience, it gets much easier as------
> they get older. So take heart--it won't be like this forever.
Thanks for the encouragement. Another hs mom commented to me a few
months ago that things really start to turn around when all your
children can get in and out of carseats/seatbelts my themselves.
Looking forward to that day. :)
Thanks for taking the time to answer RAchael.
Fonty
hlf30
> > The key is to make sure everyone is happy before implementing ato be
> > solution. This gets the kids starting to do this kind of
> > problem-solving for themselves, and the family expectation starts
> > that everyone is happy with a solution. Now of course everyonewon't
> > always be happy, but that's what you want to aim for.------
Excellent advice that will take a lot a time at the beginning (I
would imagine) but be so worth it in the long run.
> Fonty - read the above again. THIS, along with adult modelingkindness
> and consideration and generosity, is the key to the future beingway
> easier.------
An easier future...let's bring it on!
>> So with the this licking the bowl situation - as soon as thesecond
> kid said, "I want it too," then you say, "Brainstorming time - howmany
> ways can we think of to handle this?" (Notice - how many ways - not------
> asking for one single way.)
When we've tried this a few times in the past we get stuck. I think
I'm a very rules oriented/in the box thinker. Even as a 35 year old
it's very hard for me to think of solutions to almost anything. It
doesn't come naturally to me and I've passed that on to my children
I'm afraid.
>------
> Being "solution-oriented" is a way of life.
I *have got* to work on this.
There are people who see
> problems as obstacles and get upset by them and lose their cool insee
> their frustration and they end up angry. And there are people who
> problems as opportunities to be creative and they're challenged bythem
> and they end up feeling positive and energized. Which of those doyou
> want your kids to be?------
It's a no-brainer. :)
>other
> For example, my natural inclination might be to simply say to the
> kid, "He asked first; you can have it next time." Well gee - THATcould
> set off world war III in my house - why is asking "first" thedeciding
> factor AND my kids know that we'll never remember who was supposedto
> get it "next time" and that could be far away and so on. Justbecause
> one kid asked "first" - that isn't necessarily a good reason he/sheother
> should get it - maybe the other kid wants it MORE or maybe the
> kid didn't ask first because he wasn't there TO ask or maybe ayounger
> kid didn't even realize that licking the bowl was something TO askfor
> and so on.------
And that's the thing. For too long we've gone by "who asked first"
or "who's oldest" or whatever other (stupid) things I've come up with.
>kids
> Also - last thing -- avoid the thought that this is all so SILLY -
> fighting over who gets to lick the blankety-blank brownie bowl thathas
> all of about a spoonful of batter in it, anyway.------
Guilty as charged, a few times anyway.
>who
> This is about far more than that - it is about who feels loved and
> feels left out and establishing how things will be decided in your------
> family and on and on.
This meshes perfectly with what Sandra was saying.
> Also - are you sure you couldn't have jumped into the car and goneand
> bought more pop tarts when that issue came up? Going WAY out ofyour
> way to do things like that - inconveniencing yourself - is how thekids
> will learn to go out of THEIR way to be generous and kind and niceto
> others, too.------
Well, actually we had just gotten home from errands. We'd been home
about 10 minutes when the pop tart episode happened. We live in
Minnesota where it would involved not just shoes but coats, hats,
warming up the van, etc. But maybe next time I could ask the
kids...is it worth it to them to get all bundled up...but what if 2
say yes and 2 say no? More dilemnas..
plums while Sandra and I talked and
She was looking at the "reality" as opposed to a
> knee-jerk response like, "Holly, you don't need plums now and I'mnot
> dragging Pam all over Albuquerque from grocery store to grocerystore."
> THAT would have been thought and maybe said out loud by most moms,I
> think.------
Good story.
Thanks Pam. Hope my response makes sense. I've had a 2yo on my lap
the whole time.
FOnty
julie w
My only thought is that growing up you always knew that the
brownie/cookie/icing bowl was never just yours. It was always shared, if
not with a sibling then with one of the adults....
Not sure if that helps, since it probably really was not JUST about who
got to lick what. BUt of course it can be just about the need for that
poptart or bowl of brownie mix.
Julie W in AR
brownie/cookie/icing bowl was never just yours. It was always shared, if
not with a sibling then with one of the adults....
Not sure if that helps, since it probably really was not JUST about who
got to lick what. BUt of course it can be just about the need for that
poptart or bowl of brownie mix.
Julie W in AR
>
>
pam sorooshian
On Dec 16, 2004, at 12:40 PM, hlf30 wrote:
One trick I used was to force myself to think of at least two possible
solutions before I did anything.
I'd hold up my hand - "Wait - I'm thinking."
"Joe could have all if this batch and we could make more for Johnny."
"Joe and Johnny could each have half."
"Any other ideas?"
Oh - and when they start complaining immediately about one of my ideas,
I say, "Just an idea - we don't have to do it. Any more ideas?"
And if things are tense - sometimes I try throwing in a really goofy
silly idea right about then - have to judge how it will be taken.
AND - don't forget to give them something fantastic to imagine. "Next
time, I'm going to make a whole SWIMMING POOL full of brownie mix and
you won't just get to lick it, you'll get to dive right INTO it!!!"
-pam
> Why couldn't I think of that yesterday in the heat of the moment?LOL - why oh why?
One trick I used was to force myself to think of at least two possible
solutions before I did anything.
I'd hold up my hand - "Wait - I'm thinking."
"Joe could have all if this batch and we could make more for Johnny."
"Joe and Johnny could each have half."
"Any other ideas?"
Oh - and when they start complaining immediately about one of my ideas,
I say, "Just an idea - we don't have to do it. Any more ideas?"
And if things are tense - sometimes I try throwing in a really goofy
silly idea right about then - have to judge how it will be taken.
AND - don't forget to give them something fantastic to imagine. "Next
time, I'm going to make a whole SWIMMING POOL full of brownie mix and
you won't just get to lick it, you'll get to dive right INTO it!!!"
-pam
pam sorooshian
On Dec 16, 2004, at 1:05 PM, hlf30 wrote:
So - you can do this with us, if you want. Watch your kids and take
some notes - pick the next few conflicts and write to us about them and
we'll brainstorm ideas of how they might have been solved. There aren't
that many different KINDS of conflicts - you'll be able to use what we
come up with in other situations that arise later.
-pam
> When we've tried this a few times in the past we get stuck. I thinkMe too. But no longer. I really learned along with my kids.
> I'm a very rules oriented/in the box thinker. Even as a 35 year old
> it's very hard for me to think of solutions to almost anything. It
> doesn't come naturally to me and I've passed that on to my children
> I'm afraid.
So - you can do this with us, if you want. Watch your kids and take
some notes - pick the next few conflicts and write to us about them and
we'll brainstorm ideas of how they might have been solved. There aren't
that many different KINDS of conflicts - you'll be able to use what we
come up with in other situations that arise later.
-pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/2004 11:46:31 AM Mountain Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
let them
*hear* you problem-solving and let them join in.
============================================
My shining internal example of this was my kids problem-solving for me, and
me learning from them. The memory is never far from the front of my mind, and
I wrote it down soon after it happened, and it's here (the story of Kirby and
Marty telling me to just play with them):
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything
Talking through problems, though, saying "I was really cranky and couldn't
think of a better thing to do, I'm sorry," or asking them what they would have
done if they'd been the mom is healing and a good learning opportunity for all
involved--even, and maybe especially, the mom.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
let them
*hear* you problem-solving and let them join in.
============================================
My shining internal example of this was my kids problem-solving for me, and
me learning from them. The memory is never far from the front of my mind, and
I wrote it down soon after it happened, and it's here (the story of Kirby and
Marty telling me to just play with them):
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything
Talking through problems, though, saying "I was really cranky and couldn't
think of a better thing to do, I'm sorry," or asking them what they would have
done if they'd been the mom is healing and a good learning opportunity for all
involved--even, and maybe especially, the mom.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/2004 2:02:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,
lawfonta@... writes:
I sometimes get the feeling
from old timers on these boards that they've mastered this lifestyle
and it's all hunky-dory now. I forget that *everyone* has bad days.
===============
Progress, though, is that the bad days are fewer and farther between.
If we advise people to settle for whatever instead of advising the best we
know, then honestly I think we would be offering the kind of "support" some
people complain they came for and didn't get.
I don't want to support anyone justifying bad-mom behavior. No doubt there
are lists out there where if I went and described my own worst days, when I
treated the kids like evil worms, people would stroke and soothe me and say kids
are awful and moms work too hard and deserve praise no matter how they act. I
myself can't do that, though, and unschooling can't flourish in the
lowest-factors realms.
Unschooling and mindful parenting are lofty things, and if we just keep
notching a bit closer, and climbing a little bit higher, perspectives change.
Maybe we intimidate those nearer the bottom of the hill, but there are lots of us
willing to help others find their way up there too.
Though there are many who will encourage you to settle for the bottom, that
rope can help you climb up and away.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lawfonta@... writes:
I sometimes get the feeling
from old timers on these boards that they've mastered this lifestyle
and it's all hunky-dory now. I forget that *everyone* has bad days.
===============
Progress, though, is that the bad days are fewer and farther between.
If we advise people to settle for whatever instead of advising the best we
know, then honestly I think we would be offering the kind of "support" some
people complain they came for and didn't get.
I don't want to support anyone justifying bad-mom behavior. No doubt there
are lists out there where if I went and described my own worst days, when I
treated the kids like evil worms, people would stroke and soothe me and say kids
are awful and moms work too hard and deserve praise no matter how they act. I
myself can't do that, though, and unschooling can't flourish in the
lowest-factors realms.
Unschooling and mindful parenting are lofty things, and if we just keep
notching a bit closer, and climbing a little bit higher, perspectives change.
Maybe we intimidate those nearer the bottom of the hill, but there are lots of us
willing to help others find their way up there too.
Though there are many who will encourage you to settle for the bottom, that
rope can help you climb up and away.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Good point, Mary Ellen:
I make it a point to look really hard to notice and comment on the pleasant
behavior.
==========================
I have a collection of fallacies.
Reading them might help one avoid making similar statements. And when you
stop making the statements, you can move that one extra step to not even thinking
the thoughts.
Lately there have been statements made here that a kid or parent would
immediately (calmly and rationally) counter.
"You never listen to me." (Holly)
"You never let me..."
"I never get to..."
"No one every helps me..." (That was me.)
None of the statments was true. It was worth pointing that out. But in each
case the other person or people knew that the speaker was feeling hurt and
overwhelmed, and sympathy came. It's possible for someone to call another on a
false statement and yet still show compassion and generosity.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>My kids fight all the time. I repeat, all the time>>>>>Nothing happens all the time. When I find myself thinking along those lines,
I make it a point to look really hard to notice and comment on the pleasant
behavior.
==========================
I have a collection of fallacies.
Reading them might help one avoid making similar statements. And when you
stop making the statements, you can move that one extra step to not even thinking
the thoughts.
Lately there have been statements made here that a kid or parent would
immediately (calmly and rationally) counter.
"You never listen to me." (Holly)
"You never let me..."
"I never get to..."
"No one every helps me..." (That was me.)
None of the statments was true. It was worth pointing that out. But in each
case the other person or people knew that the speaker was feeling hurt and
overwhelmed, and sympathy came. It's possible for someone to call another on a
false statement and yet still show compassion and generosity.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Seth W Bartels
> >I'm at the end of my rope.thanks for the image shift, diana! i love this... :)
> >
> Tie a knot and swing! <g>
lisa