abuse
Dia Garland
> I disagree with you. Anytime you physically touch someone without theirour
> permission, it could be constituted as abuse. Isn't that what we teach
> children when they are playing with their friends?<<I am not just one of my children's friends, I am their mother and it is my
job to train them and teach them. I do not need the permission of my
children to administer correction. Do you seriously ask permission from
your children before you correct them?
And no, I do not think anytime someone touches another without permission it
is abuse. I have been bumped into, had my feet stepped on, and hugged
without my permission, and would in no way consider those abuse. People
accidentally bump into, step on, and even knock others over on a regular
basis. It doesn't mean they are abusers. Lighten up!
Dia
Bridget E Coffman
<<<"You are abusing your child if you aren't parenting exactly like
me.">>
told I am not unschooling before any of you had anything but an inkling
of how my household runs. I've seen enough to turn that back on every
one of the people who said it. but I haven't done it. What I have
realized is that many of the very people who were accusing me of being
too rigid with my children are actually MORE rigid than I am and seem to
respect their children less. At least that is what could be taken from
several posts I've read since then. But, I haven't generalized or made
assumptions about the people posting because I understand that I am just
seeing a little sliver of their lives. I may comment on what they have
said but I don't extrapolate from the fact that one does not allow her
child to ride a bike alone that she also forces her to sit and write
sentences against her will all day long. That would be as unfair as
assuming that because my family has a job list, I must have coerced them
into it.
And Sandra, here is what you said:
#26320
And some of them are NOT doing the best they can do, they have a
veneer-thin overlay
of justification for child abuse, or they themselves are so hard-hearted
and
cold that they don't see that their children are being harmed to the
point
that they, those children, could become a danger to all of OUR children
in
their frustration.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In light of recent conversations, and the fact that you insisted on
telling me that my children must be depressed because of me, I can only
assume you lump me into that category too.
At least one person on this list still insists on painting me as an
abusive mother of a dysfunctional family and, yeah, I resent that. And
yet not a single person has asked if my children are HAPPY before
condemning me.
Bridget
OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00
oo OO 00 oo
And the Geezer says:
"Back in my day, 'Astral Projection' meant mooning someone!"
me.">>
>I think the implication was that you weren't unschooling, not that itwas
>abusive.Actually, I was told that we are dysfunctional and co-dependent. I was
told I am not unschooling before any of you had anything but an inkling
of how my household runs. I've seen enough to turn that back on every
one of the people who said it. but I haven't done it. What I have
realized is that many of the very people who were accusing me of being
too rigid with my children are actually MORE rigid than I am and seem to
respect their children less. At least that is what could be taken from
several posts I've read since then. But, I haven't generalized or made
assumptions about the people posting because I understand that I am just
seeing a little sliver of their lives. I may comment on what they have
said but I don't extrapolate from the fact that one does not allow her
child to ride a bike alone that she also forces her to sit and write
sentences against her will all day long. That would be as unfair as
assuming that because my family has a job list, I must have coerced them
into it.
And Sandra, here is what you said:
#26320
And some of them are NOT doing the best they can do, they have a
veneer-thin overlay
of justification for child abuse, or they themselves are so hard-hearted
and
cold that they don't see that their children are being harmed to the
point
that they, those children, could become a danger to all of OUR children
in
their frustration.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In light of recent conversations, and the fact that you insisted on
telling me that my children must be depressed because of me, I can only
assume you lump me into that category too.
At least one person on this list still insists on painting me as an
abusive mother of a dysfunctional family and, yeah, I resent that. And
yet not a single person has asked if my children are HAPPY before
condemning me.
Bridget
OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00
oo OO 00 oo
And the Geezer says:
"Back in my day, 'Astral Projection' meant mooning someone!"
Pam Hartley
----------
Pam, sadly not the center of everyone's universe
>From: [email protected]One useful thing I've learned in life: not everything is about me.
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1508
>Date: Fri, Sep 28, 2001, 8:40 AM
>
> In light of recent conversations, and the fact that you insisted on
> telling me that my children must be depressed because of me, I can only
> assume you lump me into that category too.
Pam, sadly not the center of everyone's universe
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/22/2002 6:23:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
Stay off the phone; 3) You must account for every penny; 4) The children must
have all their homework and chores done by 5:00.
"If you, wife, don't follow these rules...."
After the assault: "It wouldn't have been a problem if she had just listened
to me."
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> ** I don't think parents look at it as a way to solve problems, but rather aHusband: "The rules ARE 1) You have supper on the table when I get home; 2)
> punishment when the child doesn't follow the rules. Most people see these
> two things as completely seperate - "it wouldn't be a problem if he had
> listened to me".
Stay off the phone; 3) You must account for every penny; 4) The children must
have all their homework and chores done by 5:00.
"If you, wife, don't follow these rules...."
After the assault: "It wouldn't have been a problem if she had just listened
to me."
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/22/02 8:19:11 PM Central Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
men and women say this to their children. "If you had mowed that lawn right
the first time, I wouldn't have had to hit you." (in this case it was a dog
chain laying on a table in the yard.) "If you had dusted that shelf with the
grain of the wood like I have told you to do before, you wouldn't have missed
that small speck, (that probably fell after said dusting was done, but it
really didn't matter anyway) I wouldn't have to spank you with the belt right
now." "If you had ordered what I wanted you to order, and not that crap you
thought you wanted, but found out you really didn't like it after all, I
wouldn't be beating the shit out of you all the way home, and your Mother
could be in the front seat instead of in the back with your sister and
brother, so you are getting 10 extra when we get home for that too."
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
> After the assault: "It wouldn't have been a problem if she had just listenedExactly! And I have heard men say this about their wives, and I have heard
>
> to me."
>
> Kelly
men and women say this to their children. "If you had mowed that lawn right
the first time, I wouldn't have had to hit you." (in this case it was a dog
chain laying on a table in the yard.) "If you had dusted that shelf with the
grain of the wood like I have told you to do before, you wouldn't have missed
that small speck, (that probably fell after said dusting was done, but it
really didn't matter anyway) I wouldn't have to spank you with the belt right
now." "If you had ordered what I wanted you to order, and not that crap you
thought you wanted, but found out you really didn't like it after all, I
wouldn't be beating the shit out of you all the way home, and your Mother
could be in the front seat instead of in the back with your sister and
brother, so you are getting 10 extra when we get home for that too."
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/22/2002 9:47:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
small world of home and family. It's not until he's of an age to leave home
for short (or longer) periods that he sees what else is available---or that
hitting is NOT OK. That time is often first grade---when he starts spending
nights away from home---and he SEES how it is in other families.
A child who may overhear from a stranger that spanking is NOT OK, may
eventually come to realize that it's not how every family operates. HE may
change. HE may eventually insist that he be treated differently. HE may not
spank HIS kids! What a revolution!
Or we could just keep it all in the closet and say that "yeah, if you believe
it to be a fine way to rear children, please go ahead. Spanking's not
illegal. I don't know any better than you how to BEST treat kids. Besides,
it's not THAT hard, and they'll forget anyway."
Bullshit.
I was spanked. Everyone I knew was spanked (as far as I know!). It wasn't
until I met someone who was never spanked (!) (that was Fiona, by the way
when we were 10!), that I was WOWed into realizing that there was another
way to discipline a child.
Novel!
Myranda, you're barking up the wrong tree (to borrow from another thread).
Are you just TRYING to be difficult?
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> It does nothing but anger and/or upset the mother, the child assumesA small child has NO idea how things work "on the outside"---outside his own
> permission has been granted to act whatever way or do whatever the stranger
> mentions, and all it does is cause problems and chaos and sore feelings.
small world of home and family. It's not until he's of an age to leave home
for short (or longer) periods that he sees what else is available---or that
hitting is NOT OK. That time is often first grade---when he starts spending
nights away from home---and he SEES how it is in other families.
A child who may overhear from a stranger that spanking is NOT OK, may
eventually come to realize that it's not how every family operates. HE may
change. HE may eventually insist that he be treated differently. HE may not
spank HIS kids! What a revolution!
Or we could just keep it all in the closet and say that "yeah, if you believe
it to be a fine way to rear children, please go ahead. Spanking's not
illegal. I don't know any better than you how to BEST treat kids. Besides,
it's not THAT hard, and they'll forget anyway."
Bullshit.
I was spanked. Everyone I knew was spanked (as far as I know!). It wasn't
until I met someone who was never spanked (!) (that was Fiona, by the way
when we were 10!), that I was WOWed into realizing that there was another
way to discipline a child.
Novel!
Myranda, you're barking up the wrong tree (to borrow from another thread).
Are you just TRYING to be difficult?
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
From: kbcdlovejo@...
Myranda, you're barking up the wrong tree (to borrow from another thread).
Are you just TRYING to be difficult?
Kelly
LOL, actually, believe it or not, no! I was just stating my opinion that forceful interference can do more harm than good, and that sincere, non-judgemental offers of help could do much more good. Plus trying to make the point that not all parents have the same child-rearing philosophies and that doesn't mean they should be attacked for it. Lord knows I never wanted in on a spanking debate! Or to discuss beaten wives or drunks in allies. Oh well.
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda, you're barking up the wrong tree (to borrow from another thread).
Are you just TRYING to be difficult?
Kelly
LOL, actually, believe it or not, no! I was just stating my opinion that forceful interference can do more harm than good, and that sincere, non-judgemental offers of help could do much more good. Plus trying to make the point that not all parents have the same child-rearing philosophies and that doesn't mean they should be attacked for it. Lord knows I never wanted in on a spanking debate! Or to discuss beaten wives or drunks in allies. Oh well.
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/22/2002 10:49:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
utopia here. In the real world there are crappy parents by the busload.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> ** Because he's a parent and the majority of parents want what is best forSweet, but not true. On THIS list, VERY true, but we live in an unschooling
> their kids. Because most people do want to do what is nice and respectful.
> Because you gotta have faith in people or they have no reason to have faith
> in themselves.
> Myranda
>
utopia here. In the real world there are crappy parents by the busload.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
From: kbcdlovejo@...
Sweet, but not true. On THIS list, VERY true, but we live in an unschooling
utopia here. In the real world there are crappy parents by the busload.
Kelly
** Surely you don't think these parents are the majority though? I know there's a lot, but....
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sweet, but not true. On THIS list, VERY true, but we live in an unschooling
utopia here. In the real world there are crappy parents by the busload.
Kelly
** Surely you don't think these parents are the majority though? I know there's a lot, but....
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]