Dia Garland

. Can people be creative enough to come
> up with a better kind of discipline if they really love their children?<<

Better as in how? Usually when one wants something better it is because the
old method doesn't work. Spanking does work when it is applied with love.
Spanking because the parent is angry and it is the last resort does not
work. I have found that spanking works very well for young children. You
can take any type of correction and make it abusive if the motive is wrong.

Dia

C Vivian

I look at it this way. If an adult hits another adult,
or an adult other than ourselves hits our child it is
termed abuse or assault yet it is ok to hit our own
children?
Our children love us and trust us to keep them safe
and free from harm. We would never let anyone else hit
them. Why would we then want to? For ANY reason.
Colleen in VT. Yes I am new to this list. :)

__________________________________________________
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Vicki A. Dennis

----- Original Message -----
From: "C Vivian" <collyviv@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <collyviv@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:45 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking


> .........an adult other than ourselves hits our child it is
> termed abuse or assault


Actually, in quite a few states if a teacher or principal hits a student it is
not termed assault at all. Even if injuries result and even if parents have
requested that their child not be physically disciplined.

Vicki

Lynda

Twenty-three states allow corporal punishment in schools. This was just on
the news the other night and on O'Reilly's Spin Factor.

Sure surprised me.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vicki A. Dennis" <mamaxaos@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C Vivian" <collyviv@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Cc: <collyviv@...>
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:45 PM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking
>
>
> > .........an adult other than ourselves hits our child it is
> > termed abuse or assault
>
>
> Actually, in quite a few states if a teacher or principal hits a student
it is
> not termed assault at all. Even if injuries result and even if parents
have
> requested that their child not be physically disciplined.
>
> Vicki
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
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> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

C Vivian

Lynda wrote:
"Twenty-three states allow corporal punishment in
schools. This was just on
the news the other night and on O'Reilly's Spin
Factor.

Sure surprised me."
Yet another good reason not to have children in Public
School!
Colleen



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[email protected]

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., C Vivian <collyviv@y...> wrote:
> I look at it this way. If an adult hits another adult,
> or an adult other than ourselves hits our child it is
> termed abuse or assault yet it is ok to hit our own
> children?
> Our children love us and trust us to keep them safe
> and free from harm. We would never let anyone else hit
> them. Why would we then want to? For ANY reason.
> Colleen in VT. Yes I am new to this list. :)
>
Colleen
Well said. Hello, and welcome
Marianne

Vaughnde Edwards

Welcome Vivian. I quite agree with you. I learned that spanking just made me feel guilty and my daughter more rebellious. What I do now is revoke priveleges when she does misbehave after several warnings. So far...I think she is still testing herself more than me since she has only been out of ps for 12 weeks.

Vaughnde Lee
Missoula, Montana
http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com

-----Original Message-----
From: C Vivian <collyviv@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc: collyviv@... <collyviv@...>
Date: Sunday, May 06, 2001 2:51 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking


I look at it this way. If an adult hits another adult,
or an adult other than ourselves hits our child it is
termed abuse or assault yet it is ok to hit our own
children?
Our children love us and trust us to keep them safe
and free from harm. We would never let anyone else hit
them. Why would we then want to? For ANY reason.
Colleen in VT. Yes I am new to this list. :)

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vaughnde Edwards

Could you list the states please? I think there are some of us who would want to know.

Vaughnde Lee
Missoula, Montana
http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Lynda <lurine@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, May 06, 2001 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking


Twenty-three states allow corporal punishment in schools. This was just on
the news the other night and on O'Reilly's Spin Factor.

Sure surprised me.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vicki A. Dennis" <mamaxaos@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C Vivian" <collyviv@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Cc: <collyviv@...>
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:45 PM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking
>
>
> > .........an adult other than ourselves hits our child it is
> > termed abuse or assault
>
>
> Actually, in quite a few states if a teacher or principal hits a student
it is
> not termed assault at all. Even if injuries result and even if parents
have
> requested that their child not be physically disciplined.
>
> Vicki
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vicki A. Dennis

go to www.nospank.org I know there is a complete list of states
somewhere in there.
It also lists the top 10 states of actual reported corporal punishment
incidents.

Vicki-----this issue was brought up by quite a few people back in the 80's when
our local Austin, Tx group was getting started. People were tired of their
kids being physically harmed at school.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vaughnde Edwards" <stampinbookworm@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking


> Could you list the states please? I think there are some of us who would want
to know.
>
> Vaughnde Lee

[email protected]

I've been away from the list for quite a while now and just started
to read the "spanking" thread. I'm writing this because a couple of
months ago the "hot topic" was abortion or pro-life. I was amazed to
see how nasty some of the posts became (including my own) and how
vehemently those who posted reacted to each other's point of view.

I'm curious to find out how many of those who are so opposed to
spanking also call themselves "pro-choice". I'm wondering where is
the line between respecting all life (born or unborn) and using or
not using corporal punishment on our children. Can you be both? Pro-
choice and anti-spanking? Or pro-life and spanking? What do we use
to determine which violent acts are acceptable and which ones are not?

For those who are Christians, the answers would seem pretty easy; all
life is to be respected and violent acts of any kind are
unacceptable. For non-Christians, I'm not quite sure what
the "guidelines" may be.

I'm hoping that many of you will continue to enlighten me with a
bigger picture of what you find acceptable and why. I know that
curiosity killed the cat - I'm wondering if I'll find
myself "meowing" after this one!

Chris

Annette Yunker

"I'm curious to find out how many of those who are so opposed to
spanking also call themselves "pro-choice". I'm wondering where is
the line between respecting all life (born or unborn) and using or
not using corporal punishment on our children. Can you be both? Pro-
choice and anti-spanking? Or pro-life and spanking? What do we use
to determine which violent acts are acceptable and which ones are not?

For those who are Christians, the answers would seem pretty easy; all
life is to be respected and violent acts of any kind are
unacceptable. For non-Christians, I'm not quite sure what
the "guidelines" may be.

I'm hoping that many of you will continue to enlighten me with a
bigger picture of what you find acceptable and why. I know that
curiosity killed the cat - I'm wondering if I'll find
myself "meowing" after this one!"

Chris
Chris,
I consider myself pro-life, but wrestle with the spanking issue.

As I understand those who espouse what they believe to be "Biblical" spanking, it resembles NOTHING of the spanking I've heard described on this list. It is not used carte blanche for any perceived transgression or innocent childhood mishap such as spilling milk. For those who practice Biblical spanking as I've heard described, the result is not the same as for those who spank in anger (which seems to be the common experience of those on the list who were spanked).

Back to your comments. Although I consider myself pro-life, I respect that the laws in the U.S. allow choice to others. It would be my sincere hope that others would choose life for the unborn, vice termination of life.

I hope we can have meaningful and respectful dialoge on this topic as I have the same curiosity as you. May we all learn something from each other the ensuing discussion.

Annette




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

dawn

i am prochoice and prochild and i believe spanking is damaging and
abusive.. i actually feel the same way about the words and tones people
(myself included) use withtheir children,


dawn h-s
**********
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
words; on
occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."-- James D. Nicoll
**********

Tami Labig-Duquette

I used to spank mine, wish I never did, but I did. At the time it seemed
like the thing to do as I was raised that way. I started reading book after
book and found new and better ways (for us), to raise our children.
I feel everyone is different and everyone has a different view on
everything. I respect all life. I dont condemn or ridcule or judge anyones
choices, I am not in thier shoes and do not know thier circumstances so how
can I say what they should or should not do. Raising children can be very
complicated, but I do so enjoy mine immensely!! I have no label I put upon
myself, and I dont put labels on people. We are complicated and our ideas
and thoughts are our own, no one needs to agree but should try to respect
our individualism.
Hope this makes sense and if not well I am good at that :) (confusing the
heck outta people,I have a hard time expressing my words).
Tami
>From: cmas100@...
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking
>Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 17:27:19 -0000
>
>I've been away from the list for quite a while now and just started
>to read the "spanking" thread. I'm writing this because a couple of
>months ago the "hot topic" was abortion or pro-life. I was amazed to
>see how nasty some of the posts became (including my own) and how
>vehemently those who posted reacted to each other's point of view.
>
>I'm curious to find out how many of those who are so opposed to
>spanking also call themselves "pro-choice". I'm wondering where is
>the line between respecting all life (born or unborn) and using or
>not using corporal punishment on our children. Can you be both? Pro-
>choice and anti-spanking? Or pro-life and spanking? What do we use
>to determine which violent acts are acceptable and which ones are not?
>
>For those who are Christians, the answers would seem pretty easy; all
>life is to be respected and violent acts of any kind are
>unacceptable. For non-Christians, I'm not quite sure what
>the "guidelines" may be.
>
>I'm hoping that many of you will continue to enlighten me with a
>bigger picture of what you find acceptable and why. I know that
>curiosity killed the cat - I'm wondering if I'll find
>myself "meowing" after this one!
>
>Chris
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Living Lighthouse

Tami,
I thought you spoke wonderfully! I totally agree with
your attitude.....especially not walking in someone
else's shoes! That is a tough one for me to overcome.
Its so easy to think we know best for everyone but you
can't inflict your beliefs on everyone and expect them
to follow suit. We all have our own belief system,
families, children, attitudes, etc... that all
together make up who we are and what we believe in and
I would hate to think that everyone feeling the same
way would be the answer.....I much rather see debate
and controversy sometimes, it causes us to think and
reflect and to dig deeper into our own feelings.
Rachel

[email protected]

>Tami
Your post mirrors my feelings. Only you put it better than I did

Marianne


I used to spank mine, wish I never did, but I did. At the time it
seemed
> like the thing to do as I was raised that way. I started reading
book after
> book and found new and better ways (for us), to raise our children.
> I feel everyone is different and everyone has a different view on
> everything. I respect all life. I dont condemn or ridcule or judge
anyones
> choices, I am not in thier shoes and do not know thier
circumstances so how
> can I say what they should or should not do. Raising children can
be very
> complicated, but I do so enjoy mine immensely!! I have no label I
put upon
> myself, and I dont put labels on people. We are complicated and our
ideas
> and thoughts are our own, no one needs to agree but should try to
respect
> our individualism.
> Hope this makes sense and if not well I am good at that :)
(confusing the
> heck outta people,I have a hard time expressing my words).
> Tami

Tami Labig-Duquette

Thanks Rachel!!
Tami ( my hands literally shake whenever I post, really!)



>From: Living Lighthouse <livinglighthouse@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking
>Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 11:20:43 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Tami,
>I thought you spoke wonderfully! I totally agree with
>your attitude.....especially not walking in someone
>else's shoes! That is a tough one for me to overcome.
>Its so easy to think we know best for everyone but you
>can't inflict your beliefs on everyone and expect them
>to follow suit. We all have our own belief system,
>families, children, attitudes, etc... that all
>together make up who we are and what we believe in and
>I would hate to think that everyone feeling the same
>way would be the answer.....I much rather see debate
>and controversy sometimes, it causes us to think and
>reflect and to dig deeper into our own feelings.
>Rachel

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Tami Labig-Duquette

Thank you Marianne!
Tami


>From: tonitoni@...
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: spanking
>Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:36:34 -0000
>
>
> >Tami
>Your post mirrors my feelings. Only you put it better than I did
>
>Marianne
>
>
> I used to spank mine, wish I never did, but I did. At the time it
>seemed
> > like the thing to do as I was raised that way. I started reading
>book after
> > book and found new and better ways (for us), to raise our children.
> > I feel everyone is different and everyone has a different view on
> > everything. I respect all life. I dont condemn or ridcule or judge
>anyones
> > choices, I am not in thier shoes and do not know thier
>circumstances so how
> > can I say what they should or should not do. Raising children can
>be very
> > complicated, but I do so enjoy mine immensely!! I have no label I
>put upon
> > myself, and I dont put labels on people. We are complicated and our
>ideas
> > and thoughts are our own, no one needs to agree but should try to
>respect
> > our individualism.
> > Hope this makes sense and if not well I am good at that :)
>(confusing the
> > heck outta people,I have a hard time expressing my words).
> > Tami
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Eileen M.

I don't understand the lines you draw here. I know a
lot of pro-choice christians. Even pro-choice
christian ministers. Not all christians agree that a
zygote, for instance, has a soul...

And certainly many christians feel justified in
committing violence, even doing so supposedly in the
name of God. The examples are numerous and obvious.

So you can't make the *assumption* that the two
automatically go together. Which doesn't mean that you
can't make a logical argument that they *should*. I
can, of course, understand perfectly if you are
assuming a more 'in a perfect world, following the
teachings of Christ, respect for all life should be
strictly adhered to, and I and the Pope agree that
this includes non-born life, and that is why I am a
fruitarian' point of view. And of course an
anti-spanking philosophy would be in keeping with that
philosophy...

Most Jewish people I know are both pro-choice and
extremely respectful of life... their definition of
'life' as being 'born' has to do with their
interpretation of sacred text, having to do with the
moment the soul enters the body. I think
Scientologists have a belief on this score, and I'm
sure other religions (and cultures) have their various
interpretations of when a person is a person.

As is my common annoying practice, I tend to get
frustrated with the black and white, winner take all
attitude that so frequently dominates nearly all
discussions on the subject of abortion. I understand
that there is an inherent dichotomy between the belief
that *all* life (or perhaps all human life, includint
the unborn) is sacred and therefore deserving of
protected status, and the belief that human life does
not start until a certain point of gestation and that
up until that point it is *not* protected. What
frustrates me is the disrespectful attitudes that each
side takes towards the other, as though there is no
way in which the other side could possibly *sincerely*
hold their opinion and so all discussion tends to
devolve to name calling and snorting and rolling of
eyes at best, and projectiles at worst. I think that
it should be at least possible to come to some sort of
compromise legislatively, such as is often hammered
out in custody cases, in which nobody is happy but
nobody is totally miserable either... but I
unfortunately think it's unlikely that will happen.
--- Annette Yunker <amyunker@...> wrote:
>
> "I'm curious to find out how many of those who are
> so opposed to
> spanking also call themselves "pro-choice". I'm
> wondering where is
> the line between respecting all life (born or
> unborn) and using or
> not using corporal punishment on our children.
> Can you be both? Pro-
> choice and anti-spanking? Or pro-life and
> spanking? What do we use
> to determine which violent acts are acceptable and
> which ones are not?
>
> For those who are Christians, the answers would
> seem pretty easy; all
> life is to be respected and violent acts of any
> kind are
> unacceptable. For non-Christians, I'm not quite
> sure what
> the "guidelines" may be.
>
> I'm hoping that many of you will continue to
> enlighten me with a
> bigger picture of what you find acceptable and
> why. I know that
> curiosity killed the cat - I'm wondering if I'll
> find
> myself "meowing" after this one!"
>
> Chris
> Chris,
> I consider myself pro-life, but wrestle with the
> spanking issue.
>
> As I understand those who espouse what they
> believe to be "Biblical" spanking, it resembles
> NOTHING of the spanking I've heard described on this
> list. It is not used carte blanche for any
> perceived transgression or innocent childhood mishap
> such as spilling milk. For those who practice
> Biblical spanking as I've heard described, the
> result is not the same as for those who spank in
> anger (which seems to be the common experience of
> those on the list who were spanked).
>
> Back to your comments. Although I consider myself
> pro-life, I respect that the laws in the U.S. allow
> choice to others. It would be my sincere hope that
> others would choose life for the unborn, vice
> termination of life.
>
> I hope we can have meaningful and respectful
> dialoge on this topic as I have the same curiosity
> as you. May we all learn something from each other
> the ensuing discussion.
>
> Annette
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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Vicki A. Dennis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vaughnde Edwards" Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] spanking


> Could you list the states please? I think there are >some of us who would want
to know.

Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho,
Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, North
Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas,
Wyoming.

Within these states, some districts may prohibit corporal punishment as a local
option. It is my understanding that even in states that prohibit corporal
punishment in public schools, that private schools are still permitted to use
instruments to discipline students......the assumption being that parents
approve when they enroll the child.

Vicki

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/25/02 1:44:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< That's how we discipline and it works great. I just believe that he...and
our 1 1/2 yr. old and 3 mth. old...need to be raised to know we are in
charge...and they need to be able to obey us...so that as adults...it is
easier for them to obey God's word.

As far as swearing....we also don't swear...and it would abslolutely NOT be
tolerated...but of course...just handled the same way. If he is aware that
he is not supposed to do it...he'd get a spanking. Of course...we don't
spank if he just plain did not know he wasn't supposed to do something...but
with the obvious...we do. >>

How on earth do you justify unschooling in this kind of environment?
Have you not read of the damage done to people here in the name of obedience?
Sure, your kids will obey...their mindless slaves to your whims.
My children come when I call them too, and I don't have to impart fear in
them to do it.
I think you are lacking in parenting skills HUGELY if you want to defend
spanking.
This is not the right list if you think anyone is going to say "right on,
keep spanking"
Sick.

Ren

Alan & Brenda Leonard

10/25/02 20:44:

> That's how we discipline and it works great. I just believe that he...and
> our 1 1/2 yr. old and 3 mth. old...need to be raised to know we are in
> charge...and they need to be able to obey us...so that as adults...it is
> easier for them to obey God's word.

Bridget,

Many folks here feel strongly that spanking is truly against unschooling.
Perhaps you disagree, but I hope that you will read with an open mind and
open heart.

I'm Christian, and have never felt that being spanked made it any easier for
me to obey God. There are other options. You might be truly thrilled at
what you could have -- your child's trust, not fear. There's a big
difference between obedience and trust.

brenda

[email protected]

***This reminds me of the way some people think that having no limits or rules for
your children mean that they run around wild, leaving a trail of chaos and
destruction in their path.***

You totally missed my point then.

***Supporting parental rights is no different. It
doesn't necessarily mean hurting or abusing your children, any more than not
limiting children means ignoring and neglecting them.***

You're right, it doesn't necessarily mean hurting or abusing your own children, it means *supporting another parent's right* to hurt or abuse *their* children. That was my point.
I was asking exactly how far you "parental right supporters" would go with your support.

Patti

Myranda

In a much bigger sense, it means supporting other parents' rights to make any of a wide variety of choices that are NOT hurtful or abusive to their children. I don't think there is a single person here that would agree to support the choice to lock a child in a closet or other undeniable, illegal, abuses.
Myranda
From: patti.schmidt2@...
You're right, it doesn't necessarily mean hurting or abusing your own children, it means *supporting another parent's right* to hurt or abuse *their* children. That was my point.
I was asking exactly how far you "parental right supporters" would go with your support.

Patti



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Valerie

I didn't think there would be a person here that agreed that hitting
your child to make him obey (or for any other reason) wasn't abusive
or hurtful. Unschoolers distinguish themselves from the majority in
many ways. My hopes are that they will be seen as peaceful and
nonviolent parents. Nipping spanking in the bud as an acceptable
aspect of parenting is high on the list of unschoolers that I've
been in contact with. As many have said, there is a better and more
respectful way to treat a child.

love, Valerie

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Myranda" <myrandab@b...> wrote:
> In a much bigger sense, it means supporting other parents' rights
to make any of a wide variety of choices that are NOT hurtful or
abusive to their children. I don't think there is a single person
here that would agree to support the choice to lock a child in a
closet or other undeniable, illegal, abuses.
> Myranda
> From: patti.schmidt2@v...
> You're right, it doesn't necessarily mean hurting or abusing
your own children, it means *supporting another parent's right* to
hurt or abuse *their* children. That was my point.
> I was asking exactly how far you "parental right supporters"
would go with your support.
>
> Patti
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myranda

I agree, and likewise believe that there are much better and more respectful ways to get that point across on public lists.
Myranda

From: Valerie
I didn't think there would be a person here that agreed that hitting
your child to make him obey (or for any other reason) wasn't abusive
or hurtful. Unschoolers distinguish themselves from the majority in
many ways. My hopes are that they will be seen as peaceful and
nonviolent parents. Nipping spanking in the bud as an acceptable
aspect of parenting is high on the list of unschoolers that I've
been in contact with. As many have said, there is a better and more
respectful way to treat a child.

love, Valerie




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike Ebbers

>Nipping spanking in the bud as an acceptable aspect of parenting is
>high on the list of unschoolers that I've been in contact with. As
>many have said, there is a better and more respectful way to treat a
<child.

Tonight I accidently got into the June 2000 archives and found the
exchange below. In addition to posts like the recent one above, I
now have a better idea why the long-termers on this list sound so
blunt about the topic of spanking.

Mike
watching history repeat itself

-------------------------------
on 6/28/00 3:37 PM, Sheri Ponzi <purple_sage@m...> wrote:
>>This whole feminism discussion has driven me crazy and now people
>>are going to advocate or condone spanking. I htink I am on the
>>worng list here. I'll be leaving now.

>Please don't leave! I decided not to reply at all to the spanking
>thread. I've been in enough spanking debates online. But you are
>not the only one who believes that >>Spanking is correction, beating
>is abuse.<< is a silly semantic excuse for hitting their children.
>Thea

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/25/02 7:42:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< <<As far as who is disrupting the list, I don't think it's the people
who are brave enough to stick up for their right to discipline their
children according to their own consciences, I think it's the handful
of people who reply with cold meanness. >>

Brave? It's sure brave to hit a helpless child. Yeah sure.

Cold meanness? Like hitting a child? Hmmmm.....

Ren

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/25/02 9:38:07 PM, myrandab@... writes:

<< I agree, and likewise believe that there are much better and more
respectful ways to get that point across on public lists.
Myranda >>

You can show us how YOU get your point across then.

We're trying to show people how we don't spank and still have great,
cooperative kids.

And I'm showing how I voluntarily help other people figure out what
unschooling is and how it works. And if you or anyone wants to tell me
exactly how to do that, I guess you need to offer me some money and have me
sign a contract that says that your money is worth me changing my "tune"
(melody, rhythm or volume). As long as I'm a volunteer, I'll volunteer the
way I want to.

We could be so gentle that it takes people ten years to understand
unschooling, but kid are growing up quickly all around us, and even
school-at-home has to be overcome and undone before unschooling will work.
So time is important.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/25/02 11:02:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> And I'm showing how I voluntarily help other people figure out what
> unschooling is and how it works. And if you or anyone wants to tell me
> exactly how to do that, I guess you need to offer me some money and have me
>
> sign a contract that says that your money is worth me changing my "tune"
> (melody, rhythm or volume). As long as I'm a volunteer, I'll volunteer the
>
> way I want to.
>

I'm too poor this week, every week, but Moly and I have been sitting here
tonight doing some girl time and she has been reading with me. And we have
been talking about all the spanking posts and our own issues with it, in the
past. She says she will send you her $7.34 if it will help you keep on doing
what you do, just the way you do it. <g> (gonna have to have a talk about
*literal* with the girl!)

~Nancy


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[email protected]

In a message dated 10/26/02 2:01:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
shyrley.williams@... writes:

> My mother is of the firm opinion that the reason for so many
> teenage pregnannices, crime rates etc etc, is to much permissive
> parenting and not enough spanking.
> She's always yelling at my kids for not 'showing respect'
>
> Sigh
>
> Shyrley

It is my opinion that there are so many teenage pregnancies, crime rates,
drugs, etc., etc., is because of too much spanking. All those kids learned
their parents couldn't be trusted to accept and help with the small stuff
when they were kids. And since they were spanked for the small stuff, what
are Mom and Dad gonna do now that drugs and sex are in the mix? Ship them off
to one of those wilderness boot camps?

~Nancy


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