Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion]Unschooling Vs Homeschooling was: Digest Number 5033
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/17/2004 3:57:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
And again, I'll scream! <g>: I insist that we're NOT homeschoolers to
anyone
that asks. I insist that we're UNschoolers because it matters to me that we
NOT be lumped together with those freaks.<<<<<
I don't like the idea of being lumped together either. But I refuse to give
up the word homeschooling. In my state I am homeschooling. I am a
homeschooling Mom who unschools. And even further I am a homeschooling Mom who
unschools and takes that philosophy a bit further into radical unschooling.
Those people also call themselves parents. And legally they are right, but
we parent in VERY different ways. I will not give up the title of parent
either just because I don't want us to be all lumped together. I am a parent
who believes in consensual living.
I work hard where I live to show people that not all homeschoolers are
alike. We are a very diverse group of parents.
I do not agree with Helen either. Yes, unschoolers are a segment of the
homeschooling population, but not all homeschoolers are unschoolers. Until we
talk about all the differences in homeschooling we cannot begin to show the
world the diversity that is homeschooling.
Just my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
And again, I'll scream! <g>: I insist that we're NOT homeschoolers to
anyone
that asks. I insist that we're UNschoolers because it matters to me that we
NOT be lumped together with those freaks.<<<<<
I don't like the idea of being lumped together either. But I refuse to give
up the word homeschooling. In my state I am homeschooling. I am a
homeschooling Mom who unschools. And even further I am a homeschooling Mom who
unschools and takes that philosophy a bit further into radical unschooling.
Those people also call themselves parents. And legally they are right, but
we parent in VERY different ways. I will not give up the title of parent
either just because I don't want us to be all lumped together. I am a parent
who believes in consensual living.
I work hard where I live to show people that not all homeschoolers are
alike. We are a very diverse group of parents.
I do not agree with Helen either. Yes, unschoolers are a segment of the
homeschooling population, but not all homeschoolers are unschoolers. Until we
talk about all the differences in homeschooling we cannot begin to show the
world the diversity that is homeschooling.
Just my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
It is not my wish to offend anyone, I am very knew to this group. I
think it is important for all who object to the public school or private school
education, however, to strive for unity. Not in beliefs but in purpose.
Without the great numbers of homeschoolers and the political watchdog of
Homeschool Legal Defense, I believe that our liberty to be able to provide the kind of
education that we want for our children would be in jeopardy. I think it is
inappropriate to be calling other people "freaks" because they do things
differently then we may do them, particularly when we can be united in the purpose of
providing our own children with the education that we believe is best for
them. SHALOM!
Andrea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
think it is important for all who object to the public school or private school
education, however, to strive for unity. Not in beliefs but in purpose.
Without the great numbers of homeschoolers and the political watchdog of
Homeschool Legal Defense, I believe that our liberty to be able to provide the kind of
education that we want for our children would be in jeopardy. I think it is
inappropriate to be calling other people "freaks" because they do things
differently then we may do them, particularly when we can be united in the purpose of
providing our own children with the education that we believe is best for
them. SHALOM!
Andrea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MoonStarWolf
I have to agree with these statements:
<< It is not my wish to offend anyone I think it is
<< It is not my wish to offend anyone I think it is
> inappropriate to be calling other people "freaks" because they do things
> differently then we may do them, particularly when we can be united in the
> purpose of
> providing our own children with the education that we believe is best for
> them. Andrea>>
Sylvia Toyama
Without the great numbers of homeschoolers and the political watchdog of Homeschool Legal Defense, I believe that our liberty to be able to provide the kind of education that we want for our children would be in jeopardy.
*****
It is the narrowness of HSLDA's focus as a fundamentalist Christian organization, intent on defining homeschooling only by their standards of compliance (often more intrusive than existing laws in some states) that places in jeopardy our liberty to keep our kids out of public school. Beyond their narrow agenda for homeschooling, is their political agenda lobbying for a variety of issues that are not unique to homeschoolers. All in all, they are more a threat and hindrance than a help to the majority of homeschoolers. After all, HSLDA's 'brand' of Christian school-at-home is really a very small part of the larger homeschooling community.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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*****
It is the narrowness of HSLDA's focus as a fundamentalist Christian organization, intent on defining homeschooling only by their standards of compliance (often more intrusive than existing laws in some states) that places in jeopardy our liberty to keep our kids out of public school. Beyond their narrow agenda for homeschooling, is their political agenda lobbying for a variety of issues that are not unique to homeschoolers. All in all, they are more a threat and hindrance than a help to the majority of homeschoolers. After all, HSLDA's 'brand' of Christian school-at-home is really a very small part of the larger homeschooling community.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Discover all that�s new in My Yahoo!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/17/04 9:35:09 AM, AJTreetop@... writes:
<< SHALOM!
Andrea >>
Are you a member of HSLDA?
If so, have you looked into their purposes and where all the money goes?
Are you an unschooler?
Are you isolating your children from the world?
Those are important questions to ask yourself before you encourage people to
be united.
Most of the homeschoolers in the U.S. don't want to unite with the likes of
me.
Many homeschooling families wouldn't let their daughters date my sons, if
they were to let their daughters date at all (and more and more, not fewer, are
into "courtship" (with a ton of rules) and beyond, to arranged marriages now.
For many of them, homeschooling is a small part of a large movement.
And we're tarred with the brush intended for them.
Sandra
<< SHALOM!
Andrea >>
Are you a member of HSLDA?
If so, have you looked into their purposes and where all the money goes?
Are you an unschooler?
Are you isolating your children from the world?
Those are important questions to ask yourself before you encourage people to
be united.
Most of the homeschoolers in the U.S. don't want to unite with the likes of
me.
Many homeschooling families wouldn't let their daughters date my sons, if
they were to let their daughters date at all (and more and more, not fewer, are
into "courtship" (with a ton of rules) and beyond, to arranged marriages now.
For many of them, homeschooling is a small part of a large movement.
And we're tarred with the brush intended for them.
Sandra
MoonStarWolf )O(
The HSLDA only works for those who they share their hard core beliefs. we
have never considered turning our cash over to them. big waste of time.
< Are you a member of HSLDA?
have never considered turning our cash over to them. big waste of time.
< Are you a member of HSLDA?
> If so, have you looked into their purposes and where all the money goes?
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/17/04 9:41:59 AM, sylgt04@... writes:
<< After all, HSLDA's 'brand' of Christian school-at-home is really a very
small part of the larger homeschooling community. >>
I think that is incorrect. I think it is the majority part of a large
homeschooling community.
It's not just in the southeast that there are Christian homeschoolers, but
they have some HUGE Christian homeschooling conventions. Not 300 or 500
people. They'll have that many vendors and THOUSANDS of families (or at least
parents, maybe not kids).
They have magazines like this:
http://www.thehomeschoolmagazine.com/home.php
The old site (with more articles accessible during the switch) is here:
http://working.homeschool.com/resources/OldSchoolhouse/
From one of their links (but not their site):
Q: What type of families homeschool their children?
A: Although homeschoolers are often stereotyped as hippies or religious
fanatics, most homeschoolers are just normal parents who have decided to take
charge of their children’s education. Homeschoolers are everywhere and come from
all walks of life. They live in cities, in the suburbs, and in the country. They
are doctors and janitors and public school teachers. Some homeschoolers have
strong religious beliefs and some are nonbelievers. Homeschoolers are just
like you.
NOTE: "nonbelievers." Either you're strongly religious or you're a
nonbeliever, in some people's summary estimation.
Frequently Asked Questions
About Homeschooling
Have a new question?
Send it to advisor@....
For more answers to other questions, we recommend you read Homeschooling For
Success: How Parents Can Create a Superior Education For Their Child.
This book is available for purchase at: Amazon.com
Q: What is homeschooling?
A: Homeschooling is the most flexible and diverse educational option
available today. The variety of homeschooling styles reflects the diversity of the
people who choose this method. Some families organize their homeschool the same
as a traditional school, with the children studying the same subjects the same
way as public school students. Some families use the opposite approach and
"un-school" their children-a far less structured approach where the children’s
schedule is determined by their interests and readiness. Most homeschoolers,
however, use an eclectic approach that is partly structured and partly
interest-based. This method allows parents to pick and choose the classes and materials
that meet their children’s needs. These may be college or co-op classes, pool
teaching, charter schools, independent study programs, apprenticeships,
volunteering, and a host of options. Homeschooling is as unique as you are.
Q: What type of families homeschool their children?
A: Although homeschoolers are often stereotyped as hippies or religious
fanatics, most homeschoolers are just normal parents who have decided to take
charge of their children’s education. Homeschoolers are everywhere and come from
all walks of life. They live in cities, in the suburbs, and in the country. They
are doctors and janitors and public school teachers. Some homeschoolers have
strong religious beliefs and some are nonbelievers. Homeschoolers are just
like you.
Q: Is homeschooling legal?
A: Homeschooling is legal in all fifty states and throughout Canada.
Homeschooling is also becoming increasingly popular in Australia, New Zealand,
England, and Japan. However, every state and province has its own laws regarding
homeschooling and some are more "friendly" than others. Some homeschooling laws
merely require you to let your local school district know that you will be
homeschooling your children. Some laws require you to fill out paperwork as if you
were a private school. If you are considering homeschooling, you will need to
get information on the current laws in your area. State or local homeschool
groups are often the best source of information. A member of a support group in
your state can advise you on how to register as a homeschooler in your state.
It is NOT necessary to join a Legal Defense Fund. We also recommend become
familiar with your state's homeschool law at http://www.nhen.org
Q: How much does homeschooling cost?
A: Depending on the choices you make, homeschooling can cost either a little
or a lot. Generally, you can assume that homeschooling costs more than a
public school education and less than a private school. If you had to, you could
homeschool for free using public resources like libraries, PBS shows, museums,
the Internet, and hand-me-down educational supplies.
In general, homeschooling costs more if you use a boxed curriculum or sign up
with an independent study program. For example, in 2001, a complete fifth
grade program costs $570 from Calvert School, $230 from Alpha Omega Publications,
and $1,400 from Laurel Springs. Homeschooling costs are higher for teenagers
than for elementary school students, and fees are normally charged on a per
unit basis. Since many homeschool teens also take college classes, you will have
to factor that into your educational budget.
You will also want to budget additional funding for extracurricular
activities such as soccer, gymnastics, martial arts, piano lessons, and the like. Since
homeschooled children have more time, they tend to participate in more of
these activities.
<< After all, HSLDA's 'brand' of Christian school-at-home is really a very
small part of the larger homeschooling community. >>
I think that is incorrect. I think it is the majority part of a large
homeschooling community.
It's not just in the southeast that there are Christian homeschoolers, but
they have some HUGE Christian homeschooling conventions. Not 300 or 500
people. They'll have that many vendors and THOUSANDS of families (or at least
parents, maybe not kids).
They have magazines like this:
http://www.thehomeschoolmagazine.com/home.php
The old site (with more articles accessible during the switch) is here:
http://working.homeschool.com/resources/OldSchoolhouse/
From one of their links (but not their site):
Q: What type of families homeschool their children?
A: Although homeschoolers are often stereotyped as hippies or religious
fanatics, most homeschoolers are just normal parents who have decided to take
charge of their children’s education. Homeschoolers are everywhere and come from
all walks of life. They live in cities, in the suburbs, and in the country. They
are doctors and janitors and public school teachers. Some homeschoolers have
strong religious beliefs and some are nonbelievers. Homeschoolers are just
like you.
NOTE: "nonbelievers." Either you're strongly religious or you're a
nonbeliever, in some people's summary estimation.
Frequently Asked Questions
About Homeschooling
Have a new question?
Send it to advisor@....
For more answers to other questions, we recommend you read Homeschooling For
Success: How Parents Can Create a Superior Education For Their Child.
This book is available for purchase at: Amazon.com
Q: What is homeschooling?
A: Homeschooling is the most flexible and diverse educational option
available today. The variety of homeschooling styles reflects the diversity of the
people who choose this method. Some families organize their homeschool the same
as a traditional school, with the children studying the same subjects the same
way as public school students. Some families use the opposite approach and
"un-school" their children-a far less structured approach where the children’s
schedule is determined by their interests and readiness. Most homeschoolers,
however, use an eclectic approach that is partly structured and partly
interest-based. This method allows parents to pick and choose the classes and materials
that meet their children’s needs. These may be college or co-op classes, pool
teaching, charter schools, independent study programs, apprenticeships,
volunteering, and a host of options. Homeschooling is as unique as you are.
Q: What type of families homeschool their children?
A: Although homeschoolers are often stereotyped as hippies or religious
fanatics, most homeschoolers are just normal parents who have decided to take
charge of their children’s education. Homeschoolers are everywhere and come from
all walks of life. They live in cities, in the suburbs, and in the country. They
are doctors and janitors and public school teachers. Some homeschoolers have
strong religious beliefs and some are nonbelievers. Homeschoolers are just
like you.
Q: Is homeschooling legal?
A: Homeschooling is legal in all fifty states and throughout Canada.
Homeschooling is also becoming increasingly popular in Australia, New Zealand,
England, and Japan. However, every state and province has its own laws regarding
homeschooling and some are more "friendly" than others. Some homeschooling laws
merely require you to let your local school district know that you will be
homeschooling your children. Some laws require you to fill out paperwork as if you
were a private school. If you are considering homeschooling, you will need to
get information on the current laws in your area. State or local homeschool
groups are often the best source of information. A member of a support group in
your state can advise you on how to register as a homeschooler in your state.
It is NOT necessary to join a Legal Defense Fund. We also recommend become
familiar with your state's homeschool law at http://www.nhen.org
Q: How much does homeschooling cost?
A: Depending on the choices you make, homeschooling can cost either a little
or a lot. Generally, you can assume that homeschooling costs more than a
public school education and less than a private school. If you had to, you could
homeschool for free using public resources like libraries, PBS shows, museums,
the Internet, and hand-me-down educational supplies.
In general, homeschooling costs more if you use a boxed curriculum or sign up
with an independent study program. For example, in 2001, a complete fifth
grade program costs $570 from Calvert School, $230 from Alpha Omega Publications,
and $1,400 from Laurel Springs. Homeschooling costs are higher for teenagers
than for elementary school students, and fees are normally charged on a per
unit basis. Since many homeschool teens also take college classes, you will have
to factor that into your educational budget.
You will also want to budget additional funding for extracurricular
activities such as soccer, gymnastics, martial arts, piano lessons, and the like. Since
homeschooled children have more time, they tend to participate in more of
these activities.
Sylvia Toyama
<< After all, HSLDA's 'brand' of Christian school-at-home is really a very small part of the larger homeschooling community. >>
Sylvia
***
I think that is incorrect. I think it is the majority part of a large homeschooling community.
Sandra
*****
yeah, you're right, Sandra -- on thinking about it further I realize the non-Christian folks are a minority. I forget sometimes that my small community of diverse relaxed homeschooling or unschooling folks (with a fair sprinkling of pagans) are tiny minority. Just wishful thinking on my part, I guess.
Syl
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Sylvia
***
I think that is incorrect. I think it is the majority part of a large homeschooling community.
Sandra
*****
yeah, you're right, Sandra -- on thinking about it further I realize the non-Christian folks are a minority. I forget sometimes that my small community of diverse relaxed homeschooling or unschooling folks (with a fair sprinkling of pagans) are tiny minority. Just wishful thinking on my part, I guess.
Syl
__________________________________________________
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Fetteroll
on 11/17/04 10:33 AM, AJTreetop@... at AJTreetop@... wrote:
seem like the sky if falling and if homeschoolers are't diligent and stick
together then we'll soon all have the government sitting beside our kids at
their homeschool desks making sure we're doing things properly.
But outside HSLDA the homeschooling world doesn't look so bleak.
Joyce
> Without the great numbers of homeschoolers and the political watchdog ofAnd that's what HSLDA wants people to believe. Their scare tactics make it
> Homeschool Legal Defense, I believe that our liberty to be able to provide the
> kind of
> education that we want for our children would be in jeopardy.
seem like the sky if falling and if homeschoolers are't diligent and stick
together then we'll soon all have the government sitting beside our kids at
their homeschool desks making sure we're doing things properly.
But outside HSLDA the homeschooling world doesn't look so bleak.
Joyce
diana jenner
AJTreetop@... wrote:
something there should be MORE of in this world. Unity in purpose is a
great concept, I'm just not sure which purpose we'd rally around.
represent the *great numbers* they'd like you to think they do...
they're just a really loud, forceful minority. Political Watchdog???
Okay, now that I've struggled between laughing and crying over that
statement -- they don't watch MY politics, they're not even interested
in ME at all!!! I don't fit their profile in any way, shape or form ~
non xian Unitarian Universalist, unschooling, SINGLE, liberal, capable
of free thought, intent on keeping/recouping our 4th Amendment right to
privacy... You should write a letter to H$LDA and ask if we can play on
their team; they'll take our money but they don't want OUR opinions nor
do they want to support OUR freedoms (they support the freedoms they
find (conveniently) biblically appropriate)
unity. For all the reasons I've listed above (and several I've kept to
myself) *I* am the freak to their organization and they have NO problem
letting the world know! Please research them before you give them any
more support (from your heart, your mind or your pocketbook). Please
also see this statement by the Unitarian Universalist Homeschoolers:
HSLDA Does NOT speak for us - http://www.uuhomeschool.org/pub-040217-01.php3
If you can see how/why the politics they choose to WATCH have anything
remotely to do with my freedom to homeschool in the unschooling way I
see fit, please point them out to me, as I see nothing but oppression
from them.
>I think it is important for all who object to the public school or private schoolUnity is a great thing... something I practice in my everyday life,
>education, however, to strive for unity. Not in beliefs but in purpose.
>
>
something there should be MORE of in this world. Unity in purpose is a
great concept, I'm just not sure which purpose we'd rally around.
>Without the great numbers of homeschoolers and the political watchdog ofThere would be the propaganda you purchased from H$LDA ~ they don't
>Homeschool Legal Defense, I believe that our liberty to be able to provide the kind of
>education that we want for our children would be in jeopardy.
>
represent the *great numbers* they'd like you to think they do...
they're just a really loud, forceful minority. Political Watchdog???
Okay, now that I've struggled between laughing and crying over that
statement -- they don't watch MY politics, they're not even interested
in ME at all!!! I don't fit their profile in any way, shape or form ~
non xian Unitarian Universalist, unschooling, SINGLE, liberal, capable
of free thought, intent on keeping/recouping our 4th Amendment right to
privacy... You should write a letter to H$LDA and ask if we can play on
their team; they'll take our money but they don't want OUR opinions nor
do they want to support OUR freedoms (they support the freedoms they
find (conveniently) biblically appropriate)
>I think it is inappropriate to be calling other people "freaks" because they do thingsAgain, this should be included in your letter to H$LDA requesting
>differently then we may do them, particularly when we can be united in the purpose of
>providing our own children with the education that we believe is best for them.
>
unity. For all the reasons I've listed above (and several I've kept to
myself) *I* am the freak to their organization and they have NO problem
letting the world know! Please research them before you give them any
more support (from your heart, your mind or your pocketbook). Please
also see this statement by the Unitarian Universalist Homeschoolers:
HSLDA Does NOT speak for us - http://www.uuhomeschool.org/pub-040217-01.php3
If you can see how/why the politics they choose to WATCH have anything
remotely to do with my freedom to homeschool in the unschooling way I
see fit, please point them out to me, as I see nothing but oppression
from them.
>SHALOM!Shalom to you, too :) diana
> Andrea
>
>
pam sorooshian
On Nov 17, 2004, at 4:42 AM, Genant2@... wrote:
say your kids are in private school, people assume that means
Christian. In California, there are LOTS of private schools - some are
church-related schools and lots are not. There are private schools that
promote advanced academics, those that follow Montessori or Waldorf or
other specific methods, those that are for girls only, military
schools, and schools for kids with various special needs, and foreign
language immersion schools, and I know one school with a curriculum
based entirely on travel, and one that is based on the arts, and on and
on.
Nobody assumes that a kid going to "private school" is anything in
particular.
Same can be true of homeschooling - when there are enough people out
there that most people know a bunch of homeschoolers, then people will
not assume we're ALL like the family or two that they know.
-pam
> I work hard where I live to show people that not all homeschoolers areIn some states, all the private schools are church-related and if you
> alike. We are a very diverse group of parents.
say your kids are in private school, people assume that means
Christian. In California, there are LOTS of private schools - some are
church-related schools and lots are not. There are private schools that
promote advanced academics, those that follow Montessori or Waldorf or
other specific methods, those that are for girls only, military
schools, and schools for kids with various special needs, and foreign
language immersion schools, and I know one school with a curriculum
based entirely on travel, and one that is based on the arts, and on and
on.
Nobody assumes that a kid going to "private school" is anything in
particular.
Same can be true of homeschooling - when there are enough people out
there that most people know a bunch of homeschoolers, then people will
not assume we're ALL like the family or two that they know.
-pam
pam sorooshian
On Nov 17, 2004, at 8:55 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
than 10 percent of homeschooling families are HSLDA members. And that
is true even though entire big state organizations as well as many
local ones require HSLDA membership.
-pam
> I think that is incorrect. I think it is the majority part of a largeWell - maybe - but they sure don't have all that many members. Fewer
> homeschooling community.
than 10 percent of homeschooling families are HSLDA members. And that
is true even though entire big state organizations as well as many
local ones require HSLDA membership.
-pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/17/2004 11:58:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
is very unfortunate because whether we agree with someone or not that is no
reason to reject them as a person. Often Christians forget that.
I
As for the HSLDA, I was recently introduced to them and I speak from my own
experience. When I thought that I might need an attorney to fight for my
rights to homeschool, they were ready to help and no one questioned me about my
faith. It didn't come up in the discussion at all.
You ask me to ask myself questions like am I an unschooler before I encourage
unity. Forgive me, but I don't understand why. I am learning to unschool my
children. But what has that to do with the fact that whether I homeschool or
unschool, I face opposition to doing things differently from the status quo.
If I don't have my children in school, I am looked at as "different" and
therefore "suspect" and so are you. So there is our common ground. With mutual
respect for each other's rights to be different and who we are we can stand
united when our rights are challenged by those who want us to enroll our children
in school.
Andrea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Most of the homeschoolers in the U.S. don't want to unite with the likes ofI am sorry that Christian people made you feel so unloved and rejected. That
>
> me.
>
is very unfortunate because whether we agree with someone or not that is no
reason to reject them as a person. Often Christians forget that.
I
As for the HSLDA, I was recently introduced to them and I speak from my own
experience. When I thought that I might need an attorney to fight for my
rights to homeschool, they were ready to help and no one questioned me about my
faith. It didn't come up in the discussion at all.
You ask me to ask myself questions like am I an unschooler before I encourage
unity. Forgive me, but I don't understand why. I am learning to unschool my
children. But what has that to do with the fact that whether I homeschool or
unschool, I face opposition to doing things differently from the status quo.
If I don't have my children in school, I am looked at as "different" and
therefore "suspect" and so are you. So there is our common ground. With mutual
respect for each other's rights to be different and who we are we can stand
united when our rights are challenged by those who want us to enroll our children
in school.
Andrea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I live in NJ a very liberal state for homeschooling. We were planning
to relocate to NY. I found that things would be quite different there for us
if we had moved. The laws are very different and not so favorable to
homeschoolers. We choose not to relocate because of that.
I am a writer and information specialist and decided that I would
research what states were favorable and what the conditions were like in other
states. I have found that in some areas homeschool; freedoms are challenged.
There is documented cases of authorities taking homeschoolers to court as well as
harassing them. Andrea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to relocate to NY. I found that things would be quite different there for us
if we had moved. The laws are very different and not so favorable to
homeschoolers. We choose not to relocate because of that.
I am a writer and information specialist and decided that I would
research what states were favorable and what the conditions were like in other
states. I have found that in some areas homeschool; freedoms are challenged.
There is documented cases of authorities taking homeschoolers to court as well as
harassing them. Andrea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Daniela
Forgive me if I ask obvious questions, I am new to the group.
How do you yorself take care of studying and keeping updated? I am
finding that having children at home is very time-consuming. And do you
do that alone, or with other adults?
Do you have any learning time which is opened to your friends' children
(homeschooled, or unschooled, or attending schools.) And if so, how is
that arranged?
Do you have any contact with local public or private schools, to, maybe,
take advantage of their resources? (obvious examples, the library and
the sport hall).
Do you have any contact with researchers to get any insight on how to
best allow our children to become outstanding adults - as well as giving
feedback on our experience, which, in turn, might change the tone of
some press reports and perception by the general public?
I would also be interested in more specific experiences, such as, did
any of you allow their children to read by themselves? I have a daughter
who'll be 5 in March, and I'm thinking of teaching her to read, but I'm
very interested to hear any of you who did otherwise.
Thanks a lot to everyone who'll reply
Daniela
How do you yorself take care of studying and keeping updated? I am
finding that having children at home is very time-consuming. And do you
do that alone, or with other adults?
Do you have any learning time which is opened to your friends' children
(homeschooled, or unschooled, or attending schools.) And if so, how is
that arranged?
Do you have any contact with local public or private schools, to, maybe,
take advantage of their resources? (obvious examples, the library and
the sport hall).
Do you have any contact with researchers to get any insight on how to
best allow our children to become outstanding adults - as well as giving
feedback on our experience, which, in turn, might change the tone of
some press reports and perception by the general public?
I would also be interested in more specific experiences, such as, did
any of you allow their children to read by themselves? I have a daughter
who'll be 5 in March, and I'm thinking of teaching her to read, but I'm
very interested to hear any of you who did otherwise.
Thanks a lot to everyone who'll reply
Daniela
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/18/04 11:57:18 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< Well - maybe - but they sure don't have all that many members. Fewer
than 10 percent of homeschooling families are HSLDA members. And that
is true even though entire big state organizations as well as many
local ones require HSLDA membership. >>
I wouldn't mind one bit finding out I was wrong about how legion their
legions are.
They can sure pack in a humongous convention.
Sandra
<< Well - maybe - but they sure don't have all that many members. Fewer
than 10 percent of homeschooling families are HSLDA members. And that
is true even though entire big state organizations as well as many
local ones require HSLDA membership. >>
I wouldn't mind one bit finding out I was wrong about how legion their
legions are.
They can sure pack in a humongous convention.
Sandra
Angela S
>How do you yorself take care of studying and keeping updated?--------------------------------
Studying what and keeping updated on what? I find and learn about anything
that interests me. I do that while my children are pursuing their own
interests. I have a lot more time for my own interests now that my
children are 8 and almost 10, but I still found some time for me when my
children were small, mostly when they were asleep. I did small projects
that could be interrupted easily, when they were younger.
> I amDepends on what it is. If it's with my dh, we do it together. ;0)
>finding that having children at home is very time-consuming. And do you
>do that alone, or with other adults?
>Do you have any learning time which is opened to your friends' childrenWe share our lives with our friends. We don't do classes together, if
>(homeschooled, or unschooled, or attending schools.) And if so, how is
>that arranged?
that's what you mean. My kids don't enjoy things organized like a class.
Some kids enjoy classes though.
>Do you have any contact with local public or private schools, to, maybe,_______________________-
>take advantage of their resources? (obvious examples, the library and
>the sport hall).
I have no contact with the school district at all. We use the public
library and the only sport the girls are interested in right now is horse
back riding and they have a private instructor.
----------------------------
>Do you have any contact with researchers to get any insight on how to________________---
>best allow our children to become outstanding adults - as well as giving
>feedback on our experience, which, in turn, might change the tone of
>some press reports and perception by the general public?
I trust and rely on my own instincts. The only experts I enjoy consulting
are the unschooling experts I find on lists like this one. And then I
tailor anything I might learn here to my own family.
>I would also be interested in more specific experiences, such as, did_______________--
>any of you allow their children to read by themselves?
That's a funny question for an unschooling list. Most people who call
themselves unschoolers allow their children to learn anything they want, in
the way that they want. My children asked me to help them with reading and
I helped them only as much as they wanted at that time.
__________________-
>I have a daughter______________________-
>who'll be 5 in March, and I'm thinking of teaching her to read, but I'm
>very interested to hear any of you who did otherwise.
Is she interested in reading? Some four year olds are ready and anxious to
learn to read but most couldn't care at all. You really need to listen to
your child and figure out what she wants.
>Thanks a lot to everyone who'll reply-------------------------
>Daniela
Your welcome.
Angela ~ Maine
Game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Nov 18, 2004, at 3:14 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
other independent agencies estimate approximately 2,000,000
homeschooled kids. If we take an average of 3 kids per family then that
means HSLDA members constitute 10 percent of homeschooling families.
They probably have, on average, slightly larger families, so maybe that
ups it to 12 percent -- but it is a small percentage compared to the
way HSLDA sometimes acts like all homeschoolers except a few pagans
and/or unschoolers are members.
From 70,000 member families, their affiliates, such as CHEA of
California, pack in 5,000 or so individual people in their conventions.
That's big relative to the non-Christian homeschooling conferences, but
still darn small compared to the total number of homeschoolers, most of
who do not go to the big conventions or conferences.
-pam
> << Well - maybe - but they sure don't have all that many members. FewerThe most I've seen them claim is 70,000 member families. The US DOE and
> than 10 percent of homeschooling families are HSLDA members. And that
> is true even though entire big state organizations as well as many
> local ones require HSLDA membership. >>
>
> I wouldn't mind one bit finding out I was wrong about how legion their
> legions are.
>
> They can sure pack in a humongous convention.
other independent agencies estimate approximately 2,000,000
homeschooled kids. If we take an average of 3 kids per family then that
means HSLDA members constitute 10 percent of homeschooling families.
They probably have, on average, slightly larger families, so maybe that
ups it to 12 percent -- but it is a small percentage compared to the
way HSLDA sometimes acts like all homeschoolers except a few pagans
and/or unschoolers are members.
From 70,000 member families, their affiliates, such as CHEA of
California, pack in 5,000 or so individual people in their conventions.
That's big relative to the non-Christian homeschooling conferences, but
still darn small compared to the total number of homeschoolers, most of
who do not go to the big conventions or conferences.
-pam
julie w
SandraDodd@... wrote:
True (hopefully I'm remembering right...sure she'll let me know if I'm
wrong) story:
Tuck and I went to a HSLDA sponsored support group leaders "meeting" a
few years ago.
Why?
Curiosity and the offer of a free sit down meal at one of the better
hotels in town was probably a drawing point. I can't remember if Farris
himself was there or if it was Dee Black and some other guys who believe
in being accountable to someone or not.
So the whole annoying affair was drawing to a close (the lunch was very
good by the way) and it had come to a Q&A time. I can't remember exactly
who or why the question was asked, but the talk turned to these "new"
homeschoolers.
"New" as in non-christian.
These local support group leaders had no experience with secular
homeschoolers....or in some cases did not even know they existed. One
woman proudly said that she advised folks without a relationship with
God to NOT homeschool. She could not imagine how one could get through
it without prayer and since there were no support groups for them they
would be all alone.
~sigh~
The truth is they would rather not even be around us. When our inclusive
group started we were labeled the "Pagan" group (not a bad thing at
all...unless one is in the Bible Belt) and leaders referred to as
witches...and that was not to keep from using bitch, they meant literal
witches. Another thing not at all bad to be, but if your working on
keeping power that labels work.
And that's what its about with HSLDA and their toady "local" groups.
Power.
These guys do way more then homeschooling issues. They lobby for tons of
"conservative" issues.
~gah~
I could go on, but I've lost my point.....
Julie W in AR
>Maybe not most, but there are a good amount to be sure.
> Most of the homeschoolers in the U.S. don't want to unite with the
> likes of
> me.
True (hopefully I'm remembering right...sure she'll let me know if I'm
wrong) story:
Tuck and I went to a HSLDA sponsored support group leaders "meeting" a
few years ago.
Why?
Curiosity and the offer of a free sit down meal at one of the better
hotels in town was probably a drawing point. I can't remember if Farris
himself was there or if it was Dee Black and some other guys who believe
in being accountable to someone or not.
So the whole annoying affair was drawing to a close (the lunch was very
good by the way) and it had come to a Q&A time. I can't remember exactly
who or why the question was asked, but the talk turned to these "new"
homeschoolers.
"New" as in non-christian.
These local support group leaders had no experience with secular
homeschoolers....or in some cases did not even know they existed. One
woman proudly said that she advised folks without a relationship with
God to NOT homeschool. She could not imagine how one could get through
it without prayer and since there were no support groups for them they
would be all alone.
~sigh~
The truth is they would rather not even be around us. When our inclusive
group started we were labeled the "Pagan" group (not a bad thing at
all...unless one is in the Bible Belt) and leaders referred to as
witches...and that was not to keep from using bitch, they meant literal
witches. Another thing not at all bad to be, but if your working on
keeping power that labels work.
And that's what its about with HSLDA and their toady "local" groups.
Power.
These guys do way more then homeschooling issues. They lobby for tons of
"conservative" issues.
~gah~
I could go on, but I've lost my point.....
Julie W in AR
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/18/2004 7:35:46 PM Mountain Standard Time,
jjjwoolfolk@... writes:
These local support group leaders had no experience with secular
homeschoolers....or in some cases did not even know they existed.
-----------------
That used to happen a lot when AOL had all the homeschooling stuff in one
place. People would say "Why would a homeschooler ever..." and fill it in with
something like "support abortion rights" or "all their children to watch R
rated movies" or whatever, and when someone would say "Not all homeschoolers are
Christian," someone would express total shock. These are some of the
expressions I remember:
"Why would anyone homeschool if she didn't have to?"
"Why would God call non-Christians to homeschool?" (weird one)
"Why are non-Christians riding our coattails?"
(secular homeschoolers predated the christian homeschooling movement by at
least five or seven years)
and some kind of surprise that there would be any reason for non-Christians
(by which they meant not fundamentalist born-again Christians) to avoid
schools. School couldn't hurt their kids, after all, as they were already in sin (I
guess). And if a family homeschools to shelter their children from sin,
they're as unlikely to want them to come over to my house as to school. MORE
unlikely, probably. School doesn't show South Park or The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
But that was many years ago, and maybe by now they're all aware that they're
not the only people in heaven. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jjjwoolfolk@... writes:
These local support group leaders had no experience with secular
homeschoolers....or in some cases did not even know they existed.
-----------------
That used to happen a lot when AOL had all the homeschooling stuff in one
place. People would say "Why would a homeschooler ever..." and fill it in with
something like "support abortion rights" or "all their children to watch R
rated movies" or whatever, and when someone would say "Not all homeschoolers are
Christian," someone would express total shock. These are some of the
expressions I remember:
"Why would anyone homeschool if she didn't have to?"
"Why would God call non-Christians to homeschool?" (weird one)
"Why are non-Christians riding our coattails?"
(secular homeschoolers predated the christian homeschooling movement by at
least five or seven years)
and some kind of surprise that there would be any reason for non-Christians
(by which they meant not fundamentalist born-again Christians) to avoid
schools. School couldn't hurt their kids, after all, as they were already in sin (I
guess). And if a family homeschools to shelter their children from sin,
they're as unlikely to want them to come over to my house as to school. MORE
unlikely, probably. School doesn't show South Park or The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
But that was many years ago, and maybe by now they're all aware that they're
not the only people in heaven. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/18/2004 9:35:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jjjwoolfolk@... writes:
back. When we were first homeschooling, we were in the only homeschool group
we knew in the area which in a very short time went from proclaiming to be
inclusive to requiring a "statement of faith" to be in the group.
A few of us who were very uncomforable with that started a new group with the
intent of it being just a relaxed unstructured support group. A member of
the old group who was Southern Baptist (I think they all were come to think of
it) called up one of our new group to strongly warn her that one of us was a
"witch" A witch that practiced witchcraft. I wondered who that could be
although it wouldn't have bothered me in the least for her to be part of the group.
Turns out it was me!! Something about me allowing my kids to read Harry
Potter and play with Pokemon cards. Very scary.
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jjjwoolfolk@... writes:
> When our inclusiveThis reminded me of something that I'd completely forgotten from a few years
> group started we were labeled the "Pagan" group (not a bad thing at
> all...unless one is in the Bible Belt) and leaders referred to as
> witches...and that was not to keep from using bitch, they meant literal
> witches
back. When we were first homeschooling, we were in the only homeschool group
we knew in the area which in a very short time went from proclaiming to be
inclusive to requiring a "statement of faith" to be in the group.
A few of us who were very uncomforable with that started a new group with the
intent of it being just a relaxed unstructured support group. A member of
the old group who was Southern Baptist (I think they all were come to think of
it) called up one of our new group to strongly warn her that one of us was a
"witch" A witch that practiced witchcraft. I wondered who that could be
although it wouldn't have bothered me in the least for her to be part of the group.
Turns out it was me!! Something about me allowing my kids to read Harry
Potter and play with Pokemon cards. Very scary.
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/19/2004 8:44:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gailbrocop@... writes:
no bedtimes, joyful kids. We're way beyond witchcraft now!! :-)
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gailbrocop@... writes:
> Turns out it was me!! Something about me allowing my kids to read HarryWonder what they would think now? With all our R-rated movies, video games,
> Potter and play with Pokemon cards. Very scary.
>
no bedtimes, joyful kids. We're way beyond witchcraft now!! :-)
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Holly Furgason
It goes beyond that. They have to have people believe that these
homeschool laws they're pushing are actually "good", that, if it
weren't for the "good" laws, homeschoolers would run amok and destroy
everybody's right to homeschool.
Well, here in Texas we don't have any homeschooling laws and everyone
is doing just fine. There have been no dire consequences. We are
all thriving in ways that hsers in other states can't even imagine.
Yet, H$LDA still balks at the idea of complete homeschool freedom and
continues to restrict hsing.
Holly
2 COOL 4 SCHOOL
Homeschooling t-shirts and more!
http://www.cafepress.com/2cool4school
--- In [email protected], Fetteroll
<fetteroll@e...> wrote:
homeschool laws they're pushing are actually "good", that, if it
weren't for the "good" laws, homeschoolers would run amok and destroy
everybody's right to homeschool.
Well, here in Texas we don't have any homeschooling laws and everyone
is doing just fine. There have been no dire consequences. We are
all thriving in ways that hsers in other states can't even imagine.
Yet, H$LDA still balks at the idea of complete homeschool freedom and
continues to restrict hsing.
Holly
2 COOL 4 SCHOOL
Homeschooling t-shirts and more!
http://www.cafepress.com/2cool4school
--- In [email protected], Fetteroll
<fetteroll@e...> wrote:
> And that's what HSLDA wants people to believe. Their scare tacticsmake it
> seem like the sky if falling and if homeschoolers are't diligentand stick
> together then we'll soon all have the government sitting beside ourkids at
> their homeschool desks making sure we're doing things properly.
>
> But outside HSLDA the homeschooling world doesn't look so bleak.
>
> Joyce
Holly Furgason
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
homeschooled in a lot of states I still feel that the people who
homeschool for other than fundamentalist Christian religious reason
far out number fundamentalist Christian religious homeschoolers and
are growing.
I've been to Christian groups where only a small percentage was
Christian but it was the only game in town. All those members of a
Christian group are then counted as Chrsitian hsers. And then there
are the responses to surveys which are deceptive on two ways. First
of all, they don't make it into the hands of hsers like us and then,
if they do, they are worded in such a way as to make the numbers look
for H$LDA. "Do you homeschool for religious reasons?" could include
a Pagan unschooler but they would use that person as a statistic for
their propaganda. And on and on it goes.
use the right curriculum, beat your kids the right way, follow the
teachings of hs Men-of-God and you can only achieve this through
their conferences where they make lots and lots of $$$*. And don't
you dare question whether the conference is worth going to- *God*
wants you there.
Holly
*The last year I have numbers for, Southeast Texas Homeschool Assoc.
made a $40,000 profit (ie after expenses) and still continues to talk
like they were a break even operation like many independent
conferences.
> I wouldn't mind one bit finding out I was wrong about how legiontheir
> legions are.I have no problem believing that they lie about percentages. I've
homeschooled in a lot of states I still feel that the people who
homeschool for other than fundamentalist Christian religious reason
far out number fundamentalist Christian religious homeschoolers and
are growing.
I've been to Christian groups where only a small percentage was
Christian but it was the only game in town. All those members of a
Christian group are then counted as Chrsitian hsers. And then there
are the responses to surveys which are deceptive on two ways. First
of all, they don't make it into the hands of hsers like us and then,
if they do, they are worded in such a way as to make the numbers look
for H$LDA. "Do you homeschool for religious reasons?" could include
a Pagan unschooler but they would use that person as a statistic for
their propaganda. And on and on it goes.
> They can sure pack in a humongous convention.They use guilt and fear to do this. You have to be the perfect hser,
use the right curriculum, beat your kids the right way, follow the
teachings of hs Men-of-God and you can only achieve this through
their conferences where they make lots and lots of $$$*. And don't
you dare question whether the conference is worth going to- *God*
wants you there.
Holly
*The last year I have numbers for, Southeast Texas Homeschool Assoc.
made a $40,000 profit (ie after expenses) and still continues to talk
like they were a break even operation like many independent
conferences.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/19/04 6:44:48 AM, gailbrocop@... writes:
<< A member of
the old group who was Southern Baptist (I think they all were come to think
of
it) called up one of our new group to strongly warn her that one of us was a
"witch" A witch that practiced witchcraft. I wondered who that could be
although it wouldn't have bothered me in the least for her to be part of the
group. >>
It's sad, but it seems nobody believes in witches and a real devil with a
tail and the omnipresence of Satan and the evils of Harry Potter like people who
should and could easily just live in joy without fear, if Jesus is really
their savior and they're assured eternal paradise. What a waste of their energy
to wall themselves in from boogeymen.
Sandra
<< A member of
the old group who was Southern Baptist (I think they all were come to think
of
it) called up one of our new group to strongly warn her that one of us was a
"witch" A witch that practiced witchcraft. I wondered who that could be
although it wouldn't have bothered me in the least for her to be part of the
group. >>
It's sad, but it seems nobody believes in witches and a real devil with a
tail and the omnipresence of Satan and the evils of Harry Potter like people who
should and could easily just live in joy without fear, if Jesus is really
their savior and they're assured eternal paradise. What a waste of their energy
to wall themselves in from boogeymen.
Sandra
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<Forgive me if I ask obvious questions, I am new to the group.>>>>
You may find many of your questions answered by reading at
www.sandradodd.com/unschooling and looking at Danielle Conger's website and
blog http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
It's not that we can't answer your questions, it's just that the answer to a
lot of them would be "maybe" or "sometimes". The whole point of Unschooling
is to spend the majority of our time with our children. These websites have
the specific experiences you are interested in hearing about. Unschooling
looks different in every household because it is fundamentally about freedom
to tailor our lives to the needs of the individuals and the family first.
<<<<<Do you have any learning time which is opened to your friends' children
(homeschooled, or unschooled, or attending schools.) And if so, how is
that arranged?>>>>
Unschoolers tend to believe that 100% of a person's waking hours are
"learning time", including activities like staring at the clouds. Learning
is not separated from life. I arrange play dates for my daughter by picking
up the phone or speaking to Moms at park day or dance class. I usually get
an adult visitor at the same time.
<<<<Do you have any contact with local public or private schools, to, maybe,
take advantage of their resources? (obvious examples, the library and
the sport hall).>>>>
The Los Angeles Public Library system is so much better than any school
library could possibly be. Some Colleges allow the public to use their
libraries, although I doubt that books could be borrowed. We (ie the
Coburns) have no interest in any contact with the local school system
resources.
The playing sport question depends on the State and the school district.
There are also home school leagues for some sports.
<<<<Do you have any contact with researchers to get any insight on how to
best allow our children to become outstanding adults - as well as giving
feedback on our experience, which, in turn, might change the tone of
some press reports and perception by the general public?>>>>
The only research I have needed is the fine example of parents here, some
with over 20 years experience with grown children, and the experience of
hearing about and meeting some of the kids themselves.
I'm not looking for some formula for Jayn to *become* an outstanding adult.
She already is a wonderful and interesting person. Unschoolers tend to focus
on the present.
The information that is freely available to you, is freely available to
researchers and journalists also. Sometimes all they want is a soundbite,
not an essay. People have given interviews with varying satisfaction at the
results, although the general feeling seems to be that they have been a
positive contribution to the universe of information.
<<<<I would also be interested in more specific experiences, such as, did
any of you allow their children to read by themselves? I have a daughter
who'll be 5 in March, and I'm thinking of teaching her to read, but I'm
very interested to hear any of you who did otherwise.>>>>>
You may be interested in adding AlwaysUnschooled to your e-lists, since your
dd is only 5.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
Jayn turned 5 in October. She has been able to recognize certain special
letters, like "J", "M" and "x", for a while as well as certain words that
are signs or labels - Toys R Us, Ralphs, Barbie, X-box, Mattel, Coke (from
bill boards) and Stop. She has understood for a couple of years that these
marks on paper and screen represent spoken words. In the last 6 months she
has spontaneously been deducing that certain words begin with certain
letters - usually correctly. Sometimes she will hear a sound in the word and
relate it to another word. One thing that intrigues her is the way the names
of letters have different letters in them, for example "eff" begins with an
"e". This sometimes leads her to assert that the word "egg" begins with "f".
I read to Jayn when she asks me to. This will be at different times. We have
no bedtime routine or set schedule during the day, so the amount of reading
I do for her is irregular. Some days she seems to want me to read to her for
hours, continually choosing different stories, other times we go for several
days without me reading any stories or books. However Jayn is still
surrounded by a print rich environment. She is also interested in
catalogues, magazines and computer games. She sees me and dh reading many
different sources every day.
She is still in the process of writing her birthday thank you cards to all
her friends. She draws a portrait of the giver, and then is writing "Thank
you [name] Jayn" inside, or "Dear [name] Thanks Jayn". She often wants to
write sentences and asks me to spell the words for her. I tell her the
spelling, and then she will either write the letters from her memory or ask
what they look like. I show her either with my fingers (which she also likes
to do), or I find it written on the labels or book covers around us. As the
last resort, I write the letter on her magnadoodle for her to see it, if she
hasn't recalled the shape from my description. She has been both writing and
typing (for computer games) her own name for many months.
Jayn is interested in the idea of different fonts. She notices when some
letters are "fancy". She is mostly writing in capitals, although will create
some fancy versions of her own name sometimes.
I have never "taught" her to read or write anything. All of her reading or
writing activities are of her own instigation, although I did suggest that
she should create the thank you cards. I had the expectation that I would be
doing the writing in them, so I got a delightful surprise when she wanted
to! She is exactly where she is meant to be. Of all her friends who are
close to her age, one is an early reader, one shows no interest in doing any
writing or drawing whatsoever (according to her mom), and the others all
seem to be doing about the same amount of writing that Jayn does. The
difference? Most of the others have mothers who are making them do reading
and writing lessons. Jayn shows that lessons are simply not necessary.
I would never impose a teaching type activity on her, because I don't want
her to get the idea that what she has been doing is inadequate or wrong. I
don't want her confidence in her own judgment and acuity to be diminished in
any way.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.795 / Virus Database: 539 - Release Date: 11/12/2004
You may find many of your questions answered by reading at
www.sandradodd.com/unschooling and looking at Danielle Conger's website and
blog http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
It's not that we can't answer your questions, it's just that the answer to a
lot of them would be "maybe" or "sometimes". The whole point of Unschooling
is to spend the majority of our time with our children. These websites have
the specific experiences you are interested in hearing about. Unschooling
looks different in every household because it is fundamentally about freedom
to tailor our lives to the needs of the individuals and the family first.
<<<<<Do you have any learning time which is opened to your friends' children
(homeschooled, or unschooled, or attending schools.) And if so, how is
that arranged?>>>>
Unschoolers tend to believe that 100% of a person's waking hours are
"learning time", including activities like staring at the clouds. Learning
is not separated from life. I arrange play dates for my daughter by picking
up the phone or speaking to Moms at park day or dance class. I usually get
an adult visitor at the same time.
<<<<Do you have any contact with local public or private schools, to, maybe,
take advantage of their resources? (obvious examples, the library and
the sport hall).>>>>
The Los Angeles Public Library system is so much better than any school
library could possibly be. Some Colleges allow the public to use their
libraries, although I doubt that books could be borrowed. We (ie the
Coburns) have no interest in any contact with the local school system
resources.
The playing sport question depends on the State and the school district.
There are also home school leagues for some sports.
<<<<Do you have any contact with researchers to get any insight on how to
best allow our children to become outstanding adults - as well as giving
feedback on our experience, which, in turn, might change the tone of
some press reports and perception by the general public?>>>>
The only research I have needed is the fine example of parents here, some
with over 20 years experience with grown children, and the experience of
hearing about and meeting some of the kids themselves.
I'm not looking for some formula for Jayn to *become* an outstanding adult.
She already is a wonderful and interesting person. Unschoolers tend to focus
on the present.
The information that is freely available to you, is freely available to
researchers and journalists also. Sometimes all they want is a soundbite,
not an essay. People have given interviews with varying satisfaction at the
results, although the general feeling seems to be that they have been a
positive contribution to the universe of information.
<<<<I would also be interested in more specific experiences, such as, did
any of you allow their children to read by themselves? I have a daughter
who'll be 5 in March, and I'm thinking of teaching her to read, but I'm
very interested to hear any of you who did otherwise.>>>>>
You may be interested in adding AlwaysUnschooled to your e-lists, since your
dd is only 5.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
Jayn turned 5 in October. She has been able to recognize certain special
letters, like "J", "M" and "x", for a while as well as certain words that
are signs or labels - Toys R Us, Ralphs, Barbie, X-box, Mattel, Coke (from
bill boards) and Stop. She has understood for a couple of years that these
marks on paper and screen represent spoken words. In the last 6 months she
has spontaneously been deducing that certain words begin with certain
letters - usually correctly. Sometimes she will hear a sound in the word and
relate it to another word. One thing that intrigues her is the way the names
of letters have different letters in them, for example "eff" begins with an
"e". This sometimes leads her to assert that the word "egg" begins with "f".
I read to Jayn when she asks me to. This will be at different times. We have
no bedtime routine or set schedule during the day, so the amount of reading
I do for her is irregular. Some days she seems to want me to read to her for
hours, continually choosing different stories, other times we go for several
days without me reading any stories or books. However Jayn is still
surrounded by a print rich environment. She is also interested in
catalogues, magazines and computer games. She sees me and dh reading many
different sources every day.
She is still in the process of writing her birthday thank you cards to all
her friends. She draws a portrait of the giver, and then is writing "Thank
you [name] Jayn" inside, or "Dear [name] Thanks Jayn". She often wants to
write sentences and asks me to spell the words for her. I tell her the
spelling, and then she will either write the letters from her memory or ask
what they look like. I show her either with my fingers (which she also likes
to do), or I find it written on the labels or book covers around us. As the
last resort, I write the letter on her magnadoodle for her to see it, if she
hasn't recalled the shape from my description. She has been both writing and
typing (for computer games) her own name for many months.
Jayn is interested in the idea of different fonts. She notices when some
letters are "fancy". She is mostly writing in capitals, although will create
some fancy versions of her own name sometimes.
I have never "taught" her to read or write anything. All of her reading or
writing activities are of her own instigation, although I did suggest that
she should create the thank you cards. I had the expectation that I would be
doing the writing in them, so I got a delightful surprise when she wanted
to! She is exactly where she is meant to be. Of all her friends who are
close to her age, one is an early reader, one shows no interest in doing any
writing or drawing whatsoever (according to her mom), and the others all
seem to be doing about the same amount of writing that Jayn does. The
difference? Most of the others have mothers who are making them do reading
and writing lessons. Jayn shows that lessons are simply not necessary.
I would never impose a teaching type activity on her, because I don't want
her to get the idea that what she has been doing is inadequate or wrong. I
don't want her confidence in her own judgment and acuity to be diminished in
any way.
Robyn L. Coburn
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diana jenner
Daniela wrote:
now, my house is quiet and it's almost 10am <bg> I've been up reading,
studying and updating for an hour or so; this IS my morning routine. I
snach chances at the internet spradically throughout the day, but once
the kids are awake, it's a perpetual *rock/paper/scissors* for who's up
next. I get plenty of time to spend with other adults, as my kids have
activities almost every day, with other homeschooled kids and their
parents. I am the secretary of our lil homeschool group, so I'm as
visible as possible at most of our activities (though I've recently
taken to heart Sandra's long past comments about no field trips --
aaaaaahhhh, our life is SO much better without the *greatly enocuraged*
trips to insipid places, one of the other board members shows her face
for those -- we go to the places we /want/ to go, /when/ we want to
go!) I've got a great support system of my own, not all unschoolers,
not even all homeschoolers, nor, gasp, all respectful (in our
definition) parents - I'm an indiscriminate friend <vbg>
located at public schools, but paid for by city/county taxes] about
using their *open gym* time. They've always had play time for toddlers
on a daily basis, all over town. When some homeschooling families came
to use that time for their entire families, they were sent away for
having the older children mixed with the younger ones. After some teary
discussions, they now have open gym/open games 4 afternoons a week
(during school hours) for all ages -- not specifically for the
homeschool community, but open to us. We take advantage at least once a
week; so far it's worked out wonderfully. Even when the PE teacher on
the other side of the nylon gym divider gets pissy for having to compete
against playgroups all day [I *do* understand his pain] and gets out his
PA to talk to his class, we just pack up and go to the game room where
we can play FREE air hockey and choose from over 100 boardgames and 4
video game systems!! We are quick to get out of there before school
lets out, so we don't have to fight the traffic of kids pouring into the
community center where they can stay until 6pm or the traffic of parents
trying to get their kids home.
Every Friday we have an activity: Bowling, Swimming 2x/mo, and Game
Day. On days when there is no public school (including all summer
long), siblings and friends often join us. My kids get to see 'schooled
kids' every Sunday at church; our Sunday School program is run by an
unschooling mom so the atmospere is very relaxed <g> For the schoolkids
it's a treat, for my kids it's not a huge *school-like* imposition into
their week. My good friend with schooled kids has decided NOT to let
our kids socialize as her kids have a bad attitude about school after
being with mine for extended periods. SHE doesn't want to deal with it,
so the kids don't see each other. In reality, my kids had to struggle
so much to understand the school mentality [Hayden's a boooooy, we can't
play with /him/]of these kids that they don't miss them very often.
Our school district offers the text books for home use. Last year,
I brought them home and let them take up space on our shelves for the
"just in case" someone wanted to see them. THIS year, I don't have room
on my shelves for books we don't love, so I didn't accept their books.
The public libraries are REALLY QUIET during the afternoons! We have
the librarians to ourselves <bg> not to mention the computers are always
available and we get to choose from a fully stocked video/dvd library!!
The zoo is ours and so is the local children's science center.
Honestly, I like the reduced germ factor when we're there alone <vbg>
not to mention the noise factor.
We are beginning a Destination Imagination program [which I somehow
got snagged into coordinating] in our group. We have enough kids for
two complete teams, but some of the older kids want a different
project. We may have to open the team to schooled kids or have our kids
join a 'school' team in order to participate in their dream team. As an
unschooler, I love the improv aspect of this program and the whole
'think outside of the box' mentality of the organization.
The one who is on this path of journey and discovery about how to best
*ALLOW* my children to become the adults they're meant to be. Okay, I'm
sniggering about *allow* -- what that means to me is that I move MYSELF
out of the way of my children's lives and let them have their own, allow
them to have issues that are completely different than mine. MY schooly
ideas and MY fears and MY ideals have no room on their journey --
they're MY issues to deal with, dealing with them as mine makes all our
our journeys easier. THEY give me regular feedback on how I'm doing.
THEY let me know immediatly what is working and what isn't. THEY are
not afraid to tell me what they need or that they need something and
could I help them figure out what it is... The public perception that
needs the most work is the perception of children as minions, as
mindless robots who have no voice worth hearning; that's the one I work
on daily.
I have opportunities to contribute as diana, the home/unschooling mommy
who is also a real-live human being: I'm part of the Dakota Comment
panel for our local newspaper, every week my opinion appears with my
heading: Diana Jenner, 36, Homeschooling mother; I was just asked to be
part of a panel for SD Public Broadcasting to discuss the recent article
about the high % of kids in daycare in SD -- I declined as I don't find
the relevance, but they are keeping my info in case there comes a
homeschool issue to discuss; I speak at church, most recently a talk
entitiled "A UUnique Perspective on Homeschooling" which included an
hour long group discussion following the talk; anyone who goes to
www.southdakotahomeschool.com can find my phone number and call me for
info -- I've been the first contact for many people exploring
homeschooling in SD and I'm glad to be the first one to tell them to
relax and enjoy the ride.
the kids did too! Just as I carried them for as long as it took for
them to walk (and my heart broke as they each did learn it, in spite of
what others warned me about wearing my babies), I read to my children
for as long as it takes for them to read. AND just as I continued to
carry those babies long after they were walking experts, I continue to
read to my children. At 6.5, Hannah decided she could read and, by
golly, she did! Her brother is now near that age and has been "a
reader" for over a year, her aptitude sparked his interest better than I
EVER could have with any *learn to read* technique. Reading came easy to
me as a kid, because I saw the value it had to MY life immediately.
I've always always loved to read. My kids read because they enjoy it, I
read to them because we all enjoy it.
joyful for you and your daughter!
~diana :)
----------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Forgive me if I ask obvious questions, I am new to the group.I'm asssuming you're talking about my own studying and updating... Right
>How do you yorself take care of studying and keeping updated? I am
>finding that having children at home is very time-consuming. And do you
>do that alone, or with other adults?
>
>
now, my house is quiet and it's almost 10am <bg> I've been up reading,
studying and updating for an hour or so; this IS my morning routine. I
snach chances at the internet spradically throughout the day, but once
the kids are awake, it's a perpetual *rock/paper/scissors* for who's up
next. I get plenty of time to spend with other adults, as my kids have
activities almost every day, with other homeschooled kids and their
parents. I am the secretary of our lil homeschool group, so I'm as
visible as possible at most of our activities (though I've recently
taken to heart Sandra's long past comments about no field trips --
aaaaaahhhh, our life is SO much better without the *greatly enocuraged*
trips to insipid places, one of the other board members shows her face
for those -- we go to the places we /want/ to go, /when/ we want to
go!) I've got a great support system of my own, not all unschoolers,
not even all homeschoolers, nor, gasp, all respectful (in our
definition) parents - I'm an indiscriminate friend <vbg>
>Do you have any learning time which is opened to your friends' children(homeschooled, or unschooled, or attending schools.) And if so, how is that arranged? Do you have any contact with local public or private schools, to, maybe, take advantage of their resources? (obvious examples, the library and the sport hall).We have communicated with our local community centers [they're
>
>
located at public schools, but paid for by city/county taxes] about
using their *open gym* time. They've always had play time for toddlers
on a daily basis, all over town. When some homeschooling families came
to use that time for their entire families, they were sent away for
having the older children mixed with the younger ones. After some teary
discussions, they now have open gym/open games 4 afternoons a week
(during school hours) for all ages -- not specifically for the
homeschool community, but open to us. We take advantage at least once a
week; so far it's worked out wonderfully. Even when the PE teacher on
the other side of the nylon gym divider gets pissy for having to compete
against playgroups all day [I *do* understand his pain] and gets out his
PA to talk to his class, we just pack up and go to the game room where
we can play FREE air hockey and choose from over 100 boardgames and 4
video game systems!! We are quick to get out of there before school
lets out, so we don't have to fight the traffic of kids pouring into the
community center where they can stay until 6pm or the traffic of parents
trying to get their kids home.
Every Friday we have an activity: Bowling, Swimming 2x/mo, and Game
Day. On days when there is no public school (including all summer
long), siblings and friends often join us. My kids get to see 'schooled
kids' every Sunday at church; our Sunday School program is run by an
unschooling mom so the atmospere is very relaxed <g> For the schoolkids
it's a treat, for my kids it's not a huge *school-like* imposition into
their week. My good friend with schooled kids has decided NOT to let
our kids socialize as her kids have a bad attitude about school after
being with mine for extended periods. SHE doesn't want to deal with it,
so the kids don't see each other. In reality, my kids had to struggle
so much to understand the school mentality [Hayden's a boooooy, we can't
play with /him/]of these kids that they don't miss them very often.
Our school district offers the text books for home use. Last year,
I brought them home and let them take up space on our shelves for the
"just in case" someone wanted to see them. THIS year, I don't have room
on my shelves for books we don't love, so I didn't accept their books.
The public libraries are REALLY QUIET during the afternoons! We have
the librarians to ourselves <bg> not to mention the computers are always
available and we get to choose from a fully stocked video/dvd library!!
The zoo is ours and so is the local children's science center.
Honestly, I like the reduced germ factor when we're there alone <vbg>
not to mention the noise factor.
We are beginning a Destination Imagination program [which I somehow
got snagged into coordinating] in our group. We have enough kids for
two complete teams, but some of the older kids want a different
project. We may have to open the team to schooled kids or have our kids
join a 'school' team in order to participate in their dream team. As an
unschooler, I love the improv aspect of this program and the whole
'think outside of the box' mentality of the organization.
>Do you have any contact with researchers to get any insight on how toME. I have regular, daily, almost momentary conversations with myself.
>best allow our children to become outstanding adults - as well as giving
>feedback on our experience, which, in turn, might change the tone of
>some press reports and perception by the general public?
>
>
The one who is on this path of journey and discovery about how to best
*ALLOW* my children to become the adults they're meant to be. Okay, I'm
sniggering about *allow* -- what that means to me is that I move MYSELF
out of the way of my children's lives and let them have their own, allow
them to have issues that are completely different than mine. MY schooly
ideas and MY fears and MY ideals have no room on their journey --
they're MY issues to deal with, dealing with them as mine makes all our
our journeys easier. THEY give me regular feedback on how I'm doing.
THEY let me know immediatly what is working and what isn't. THEY are
not afraid to tell me what they need or that they need something and
could I help them figure out what it is... The public perception that
needs the most work is the perception of children as minions, as
mindless robots who have no voice worth hearning; that's the one I work
on daily.
I have opportunities to contribute as diana, the home/unschooling mommy
who is also a real-live human being: I'm part of the Dakota Comment
panel for our local newspaper, every week my opinion appears with my
heading: Diana Jenner, 36, Homeschooling mother; I was just asked to be
part of a panel for SD Public Broadcasting to discuss the recent article
about the high % of kids in daycare in SD -- I declined as I don't find
the relevance, but they are keeping my info in case there comes a
homeschool issue to discuss; I speak at church, most recently a talk
entitiled "A UUnique Perspective on Homeschooling" which included an
hour long group discussion following the talk; anyone who goes to
www.southdakotahomeschool.com can find my phone number and call me for
info -- I've been the first contact for many people exploring
homeschooling in SD and I'm glad to be the first one to tell them to
relax and enjoy the ride.
>I would also be interested in more specific experiences, such as, didI owned materials to *teach* my kids to read... I found them insipid and
>any of you allow their children to read by themselves? I have a daughter
>who'll be 5 in March, and I'm thinking of teaching her to read, but I'm
>very interested to hear any of you who did otherwise.
>
>
the kids did too! Just as I carried them for as long as it took for
them to walk (and my heart broke as they each did learn it, in spite of
what others warned me about wearing my babies), I read to my children
for as long as it takes for them to read. AND just as I continued to
carry those babies long after they were walking experts, I continue to
read to my children. At 6.5, Hannah decided she could read and, by
golly, she did! Her brother is now near that age and has been "a
reader" for over a year, her aptitude sparked his interest better than I
EVER could have with any *learn to read* technique. Reading came easy to
me as a kid, because I saw the value it had to MY life immediately.
I've always always loved to read. My kids read because they enjoy it, I
read to them because we all enjoy it.
>Thanks a lot to everyone who'll replyI hope my blathering helps quell some of your fears and makes today more
>Daniela
>
>
joyful for you and your daughter!
~diana :)
----------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Nov 19, 2004, at 7:49 AM, Holly Furgason wrote:
extremist religion or politics. Their vendor halls are HUGE - and it is
the only chance people have to look at all that stuff - it isn't like
there are homeschool supply stores in every area and, even where there
are such stores, they're small. The vendor halls are really something
to see - I find them fascinating and, sometimes, even find things I
want - like unusual games. They can also be disgusting and upsetting,
by the way, and sometimes my fascination is of the morbid variety.
But, anyway, people here go to CHEA's convention because it is so big -
of the hundreds of speakers, people can avoid the extremists and often
there are those who are offering great information mixed up with the
others. They even have "Christian unschooling" talks - it isn't all
Abeka and so on.
-pam
>> They can sure pack in a humongous convention.LOTS of people go to their conventions who aren't "with them" in their
>
> They use guilt and fear to do this. You have to be the perfect hser,
> use the right curriculum, beat your kids the right way, follow the
> teachings of hs Men-of-God and you can only achieve this through
> their conferences where they make lots and lots of $$$*. And don't
> you dare question whether the conference is worth going to- *God*
> wants you there.
extremist religion or politics. Their vendor halls are HUGE - and it is
the only chance people have to look at all that stuff - it isn't like
there are homeschool supply stores in every area and, even where there
are such stores, they're small. The vendor halls are really something
to see - I find them fascinating and, sometimes, even find things I
want - like unusual games. They can also be disgusting and upsetting,
by the way, and sometimes my fascination is of the morbid variety.
But, anyway, people here go to CHEA's convention because it is so big -
of the hundreds of speakers, people can avoid the extremists and often
there are those who are offering great information mixed up with the
others. They even have "Christian unschooling" talks - it isn't all
Abeka and so on.
-pam
soggyboysmom
Hey there Andrea - (waving wildly) - I was born and raised in NJ (at
teh crossroads of 287 and 80/280). Now we live in CT - free of
regulation on homeschoolers. Even when one surper or another gets to
wanting to make trouble, it usually gets quickly quashed. So, if you
ever decide you do want to leave NJ, CT is not too far away.
teh crossroads of 287 and 80/280). Now we live in CT - free of
regulation on homeschoolers. Even when one surper or another gets to
wanting to make trouble, it usually gets quickly quashed. So, if you
ever decide you do want to leave NJ, CT is not too far away.
[email protected]
Hey there Andrea - (waving wildly) - I was born and raised in NJ (at
the crossroads of 287 and 80/280). Now we live in CT - free of
regulation on homeschoolers. Even when one surper or another gets to
wanting to make trouble, it usually gets quickly quashed. So, if you
ever decide you do want to leave NJ, CT is not too far away.
Thanks so much! NJ isn't too bad yet but there is alot that they are trying
to have happen because of the Jackson case. I used to homeschool foster
children with my children but now we are not allowed to. HSLDA will go to court
for me if it becomes illegal to homeschool adopted children because some of my
children are adopted. What county are you from and how long have you been in
Conn.?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the crossroads of 287 and 80/280). Now we live in CT - free of
regulation on homeschoolers. Even when one surper or another gets to
wanting to make trouble, it usually gets quickly quashed. So, if you
ever decide you do want to leave NJ, CT is not too far away.
Thanks so much! NJ isn't too bad yet but there is alot that they are trying
to have happen because of the Jackson case. I used to homeschool foster
children with my children but now we are not allowed to. HSLDA will go to court
for me if it becomes illegal to homeschool adopted children because some of my
children are adopted. What county are you from and how long have you been in
Conn.?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]