Socializing
Lila
This is my first time posting; I'm new to the group. My husband and
I are newlyweds with no children yet, but we're (especially me) both
excited to be parents some day and I'm interested in child
development. I first read about unschooling a few months ago and I
think it sounds so great. I wish every child was able to learn this
way, but I know it will take a long time, if ever, for our country
to realize that our system of education is not working.
I would love to "unschool" my kids. However, I'm getting a lot of
criticism on the whole socialization issue. Right now when people
ask me about it I just say that I will make sure my kids have
chances to be with their peers like playing a sport or instrument or
art class, what ever they want to do. But then people tell me that
every person they have ever known that was homeschooled did not fit
in socially and they did not like them. I'm prepared for the fact
that our kids will be a little different fromt their peers (we are
non-Christian liberals in a Very Christian and conservative area),
but I do want them to be able to make friends and be likeable.
What do you guys say to about socializing your kids? Do your
children have any trouble meeting new people and fitting in? We
would love to hear some suggestions.
Jon & Lila
I are newlyweds with no children yet, but we're (especially me) both
excited to be parents some day and I'm interested in child
development. I first read about unschooling a few months ago and I
think it sounds so great. I wish every child was able to learn this
way, but I know it will take a long time, if ever, for our country
to realize that our system of education is not working.
I would love to "unschool" my kids. However, I'm getting a lot of
criticism on the whole socialization issue. Right now when people
ask me about it I just say that I will make sure my kids have
chances to be with their peers like playing a sport or instrument or
art class, what ever they want to do. But then people tell me that
every person they have ever known that was homeschooled did not fit
in socially and they did not like them. I'm prepared for the fact
that our kids will be a little different fromt their peers (we are
non-Christian liberals in a Very Christian and conservative area),
but I do want them to be able to make friends and be likeable.
What do you guys say to about socializing your kids? Do your
children have any trouble meeting new people and fitting in? We
would love to hear some suggestions.
Jon & Lila
pam sorooshian
Congratulations, Lila! On being newly married and already thinking
about parenting!
The National Home Education Network has a newsletter called "New
Homeschoolers Encouragement Newsletter" or N-H-E-N --- and an issue of
that is devoted to the question of socialization. You can read it here:
<http://www.nhen.org/newhser/default.asp?id=402>
-pam
about parenting!
The National Home Education Network has a newsletter called "New
Homeschoolers Encouragement Newsletter" or N-H-E-N --- and an issue of
that is devoted to the question of socialization. You can read it here:
<http://www.nhen.org/newhser/default.asp?id=402>
-pam
On Nov 15, 2004, at 10:01 PM, Lila wrote:
> This is my first time posting; I'm new to the group. My husband and
> I are newlyweds with no children yet, but we're (especially me) both
> excited to be parents some day and I'm interested in child
> development. I first read about unschooling a few months ago and I
> think it sounds so great.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/16/2004 12:02:26 AM Mountain Standard Time,
lilagianelli@... writes:
I would love to "unschool" my kids. However, I'm getting a lot of
criticism on the whole socialization issue.
--------------
You'll have years to get criticism. Don't invite it now.
-=-Right now when people
ask me about it -=-
It what?
Why is it coming up?
By the time you have a child old enough to socialize with anyone outside your
own family, all of homeschooling will be several years more common and
everyone around you will have more experience with it. And in those years you can
read lots about unschooling and the answers to all your basic questions will be
answered in dozens of ways. Maybe you'll get a chance to attend an
unschooling conference and meet children of all ages, watch them, and talk with them.
I think reading families' typical days will give you lots to think about and
look forward to:
http://sandradodd.com/typical
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lilagianelli@... writes:
I would love to "unschool" my kids. However, I'm getting a lot of
criticism on the whole socialization issue.
--------------
You'll have years to get criticism. Don't invite it now.
-=-Right now when people
ask me about it -=-
It what?
Why is it coming up?
By the time you have a child old enough to socialize with anyone outside your
own family, all of homeschooling will be several years more common and
everyone around you will have more experience with it. And in those years you can
read lots about unschooling and the answers to all your basic questions will be
answered in dozens of ways. Maybe you'll get a chance to attend an
unschooling conference and meet children of all ages, watch them, and talk with them.
I think reading families' typical days will give you lots to think about and
look forward to:
http://sandradodd.com/typical
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 11/16/04 1:01 AM, Lila at lilagianelli@... wrote:
imagine what it's like. Our brains are so full of the image of school that
it's hard to imagine what it's like without school. For instance it's hard
to imagine that if kids are in school that homeschooled kids have anyone to
be with. But reality is very different. There's a network of homeschoolers
out there who get together for social reasons and trips and classes. And in
fact, at least in the Boston area, there's almost too many activities to
choose from :-)
As for being different ... it's really the schooled kids who are warped.
Once you're out of the system and see what natural life is like, you realize
how bizarre the social atmosphere is at school and how kids have to change
themselves to fit it. Because school is an expected part of life, we don't
look at it objectively. It just is the way it is. But if you were to go to
some natural tribe in South America and tell them that from now on all their
children would basically lead separate lives from each other and from their
parents, spending majority of their waking hours with just their age mates
and a stranger so that husband and wife could spend their days apart, what
would that look like? At what age would that seem like a normal, healthy
life to lead?
But when family life is made whole again, kids get to live as biology
intended. They are lively and creative and happy and whole :-) Unschooled
kids get to grow up being the way adults spend a lot of energy (and therapy
and money on self-help books) trying to get back to. Unschooled kids don't
need to throw off the baggage of school and the warping messages of school
"socialization" to find out who they are and what they love and to give
themselves permission to pursue it because they've been living it their
whole unschooled lives.
The best way to see what unschooled kids are really like -- as opposed to
what you imagine -- is to attend an unschooling conference or get together
with an unschooling group. (I'd stay away from the specifically Christian
homeschooling groups (though sometimes it's hard to tell right away since
they present themselves as homeschooling groups) because they tend to gather
rigid Christians and their goal for their kids is a Christian life and it's
not going to look adaptable.)
Joyce
> What do you guys say to about socializing your kids? Do yourI think until you are actually involved in homeschooling that it's hard to
> children have any trouble meeting new people and fitting in? We
> would love to hear some suggestions.
imagine what it's like. Our brains are so full of the image of school that
it's hard to imagine what it's like without school. For instance it's hard
to imagine that if kids are in school that homeschooled kids have anyone to
be with. But reality is very different. There's a network of homeschoolers
out there who get together for social reasons and trips and classes. And in
fact, at least in the Boston area, there's almost too many activities to
choose from :-)
As for being different ... it's really the schooled kids who are warped.
Once you're out of the system and see what natural life is like, you realize
how bizarre the social atmosphere is at school and how kids have to change
themselves to fit it. Because school is an expected part of life, we don't
look at it objectively. It just is the way it is. But if you were to go to
some natural tribe in South America and tell them that from now on all their
children would basically lead separate lives from each other and from their
parents, spending majority of their waking hours with just their age mates
and a stranger so that husband and wife could spend their days apart, what
would that look like? At what age would that seem like a normal, healthy
life to lead?
But when family life is made whole again, kids get to live as biology
intended. They are lively and creative and happy and whole :-) Unschooled
kids get to grow up being the way adults spend a lot of energy (and therapy
and money on self-help books) trying to get back to. Unschooled kids don't
need to throw off the baggage of school and the warping messages of school
"socialization" to find out who they are and what they love and to give
themselves permission to pursue it because they've been living it their
whole unschooled lives.
The best way to see what unschooled kids are really like -- as opposed to
what you imagine -- is to attend an unschooling conference or get together
with an unschooling group. (I'd stay away from the specifically Christian
homeschooling groups (though sometimes it's hard to tell right away since
they present themselves as homeschooling groups) because they tend to gather
rigid Christians and their goal for their kids is a Christian life and it's
not going to look adaptable.)
Joyce
[email protected]
All of my kids are far more social than me, and I attended public school.
Some of them are less than others, but I just think that is part of who they
are and accept them. They are all happy. (I have 5 ages 6 to 16.)
My kids have homeschooled friends and *away* school friends, and the only
difference that I have noticed socially in a general way is that the
homeschooled children seem to be more comfortable with people of all ages and tend to
have more diverse interests, while the public/private school friends usually
only want to socialize with people their own age and tend to have more limited
interests. It might be less obvious that a home schooled child has friends
if some of them are adults or much younger children.
I definitely think my children, who tend to be introverted like myself, are
more comfortable with the amount of friends that they have than if they went
to school. There is so much pressure in school to have friends, and a stigma
that something is wrong with you if you don't have many, even if that is
your preference. I am glad that my kids are accepted everyday for who they are
and feel free to socialize or not as they want.
~Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Some of them are less than others, but I just think that is part of who they
are and accept them. They are all happy. (I have 5 ages 6 to 16.)
My kids have homeschooled friends and *away* school friends, and the only
difference that I have noticed socially in a general way is that the
homeschooled children seem to be more comfortable with people of all ages and tend to
have more diverse interests, while the public/private school friends usually
only want to socialize with people their own age and tend to have more limited
interests. It might be less obvious that a home schooled child has friends
if some of them are adults or much younger children.
I definitely think my children, who tend to be introverted like myself, are
more comfortable with the amount of friends that they have than if they went
to school. There is so much pressure in school to have friends, and a stigma
that something is wrong with you if you don't have many, even if that is
your preference. I am glad that my kids are accepted everyday for who they are
and feel free to socialize or not as they want.
~Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S
Jacqueline wrote:
There is so much pressure in school to have friends, and a stigma
that something is wrong with you if you don't have many, even if that is
your preference. I am glad that my kids are accepted everyday for who they
are
and feel free to socialize or not as they want.
-----------------------
True. I think it's important to listen to your children and meet whatever
need for friends they have, if you want homeschooling to be successful. For
some of them that means, don't pressure them to meet new people because they
are satisfied with the one or two good friends they already have. For
other's that means, take their need for more friends seriously, even if it
doesn't match your own, and go outside your comfort zone and get them into
situations where they can meet other kids with similar interests. Some kids
seem to have a high need to be with friends more often.
When my oldest reached school age, and didn't go, I felt like she would need
a peer group to form wonderful childhood memories with, since she lacked
schoolmates and neighborhood friends. (we live in the country.) We joined
a group homeschoolers for a relaxed play group but my dd was very unhappy
and stressed being in the group. (other people couldn't see it, but I knew
she just wasn't herself there.) We tried a few other group activities and
she was never overly happy with them. She just doesn't like group dynamics
very much. Thankfully, it didn't take me too long to realize that she is
happiest just having one friend over at a time and having one or two good
friends, as apposed to a group of friends.
When we dropped out of the group, I felt like I lost my argument for
socialization, because when we were in it, I could say, we have this great
group of homeschoolers and we get together regularly for socialization. But
after thinking about it more, I just started pointing out that the most
rewarding relationships that I have in my life are the ones that are close
and meaningful. I am not a group person myself. I am not sure why I
thought that kids would be any different, other than that they are forced to
be in groups by going to school. I do have some good memories of playing
with the kids in the neighborhood after school, but my best memories are the
ones of hanging out with close friends who had similar interests.
Angela ~ Maine
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There is so much pressure in school to have friends, and a stigma
that something is wrong with you if you don't have many, even if that is
your preference. I am glad that my kids are accepted everyday for who they
are
and feel free to socialize or not as they want.
-----------------------
True. I think it's important to listen to your children and meet whatever
need for friends they have, if you want homeschooling to be successful. For
some of them that means, don't pressure them to meet new people because they
are satisfied with the one or two good friends they already have. For
other's that means, take their need for more friends seriously, even if it
doesn't match your own, and go outside your comfort zone and get them into
situations where they can meet other kids with similar interests. Some kids
seem to have a high need to be with friends more often.
When my oldest reached school age, and didn't go, I felt like she would need
a peer group to form wonderful childhood memories with, since she lacked
schoolmates and neighborhood friends. (we live in the country.) We joined
a group homeschoolers for a relaxed play group but my dd was very unhappy
and stressed being in the group. (other people couldn't see it, but I knew
she just wasn't herself there.) We tried a few other group activities and
she was never overly happy with them. She just doesn't like group dynamics
very much. Thankfully, it didn't take me too long to realize that she is
happiest just having one friend over at a time and having one or two good
friends, as apposed to a group of friends.
When we dropped out of the group, I felt like I lost my argument for
socialization, because when we were in it, I could say, we have this great
group of homeschoolers and we get together regularly for socialization. But
after thinking about it more, I just started pointing out that the most
rewarding relationships that I have in my life are the ones that are close
and meaningful. I am not a group person myself. I am not sure why I
thought that kids would be any different, other than that they are forced to
be in groups by going to school. I do have some good memories of playing
with the kids in the neighborhood after school, but my best memories are the
ones of hanging out with close friends who had similar interests.
Angela ~ Maine
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
** What do you guys say to about socializing your kids? **
Homeschooling support groups are great, esp. if you find a group that
includes plenty of unschoolers. <g> Last week I was the first one to
arrive at park day, and didn't leave until it was too dark to see the
children.
I've noticed that kids at park day seem to get into deeper and more
satisfying play the longer they stay at the park. They get enjoyment
out of park day that many kids can't get from just a school lunch hour.
And there is a lot less screeching.
Yesterday I had a play date at a homeschoolng friend's house and near
the end she was running the two older kids out for piano lessons and
then the two younger kids to gymnastics. They had a pretty busy,
fulfilling day.
If you google both "socialization" and "homeschooling" you'll find some
interesting essays.
Betsy
PS By "socialization" sometimes people mean "having kids to play with"
and others mean "learning to conform to the group and become a pod
person". <g> (The latter meaning doesn't appeal to me. If people ask
you, you may need to pin them down on what they mean. Playing with
other kids? Standing in line? Coping w. the numbing boredom of
school? Acting cool?)
Homeschooling support groups are great, esp. if you find a group that
includes plenty of unschoolers. <g> Last week I was the first one to
arrive at park day, and didn't leave until it was too dark to see the
children.
I've noticed that kids at park day seem to get into deeper and more
satisfying play the longer they stay at the park. They get enjoyment
out of park day that many kids can't get from just a school lunch hour.
And there is a lot less screeching.
Yesterday I had a play date at a homeschoolng friend's house and near
the end she was running the two older kids out for piano lessons and
then the two younger kids to gymnastics. They had a pretty busy,
fulfilling day.
If you google both "socialization" and "homeschooling" you'll find some
interesting essays.
Betsy
PS By "socialization" sometimes people mean "having kids to play with"
and others mean "learning to conform to the group and become a pod
person". <g> (The latter meaning doesn't appeal to me. If people ask
you, you may need to pin them down on what they mean. Playing with
other kids? Standing in line? Coping w. the numbing boredom of
school? Acting cool?)
Seth W Bartels
>True. I think it's important to listen to your children and meetwhatever
>need for friends they have, if you want homeschooling to be successful.For
>some of them that means, don't pressure them to meet new people becausethey
>are satisfied with the one or two good friends they already have. Forit
>other's that means, take their need for more friends seriously, even if
>doesn't match your own, and go outside your comfort zone and get theminto
>situations where they can meet other kids with similar interests. Somekids
>seem to have a high need to be with friends more often.this reminds me of my daughter. she expresses a desire to have a friend
over everyday and prefers long one on one kind of play. but she doesn't
really have any friends. the ones that she kind of has aren't very close
and they either go to school, live far away, or follow a strict home
curriculum. she doesn't like the homeschool group stuff as it's very
structured and there are too many people and too many things going on at
once. she's asked me to help her find a way to meet new kids, but i
don't have any suggestions. honestly, i struggle with the same
thing...i'd like to meet new people and make new friends, but i don't
know how to go about doing this. we're both introverts who take a long
time to feel comfortable/warm up to new people, places, etc. and we live
in a pretty small town which doesn't make it any easier. :)
then there's the issue of conflicting needs among siblings. if i manage
to find something that my daughter's excited about, my son doesn't want
to go. dh works and goes to school, so there's not a lot of time that he
could stay home with ds and i'm running out of ideas. and that's not
even remotely addressing my own needs! i feel isolated and alone and
frustrated which really restricts my creativity as a mother. add in the
dark, cold weather of the season which kicks my depression in and you've
got a house full of grumpy folks.
i'm really struggling with trying to get everyone's needs met right now.
*sigh*
any suggestions?
lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
Lila,
The only times that Sarah (8) has had difficulty in
making friends has been in school, where her autistic
tendencies become more pronounced. In Girl Scouts,
AWANA (a Bible club), theatre, and around the
neighborhood and in church, Sarah has made friends
with no problems. The same for my son Logan, who is 4.
To me, it's not a big deal. She has plenty of time for
real life socialization. Having to consider everyone
in her classroom to be a friend even if they don't
treat her as a friend was more difficult for her than
being able to avoid the kids in the neighborhood who
don't like her and pick on her. In school, she
couldn't avoid them.
Elizabeth
--- Lila <lilagianelli@...> wrote:
Elizabeth
Http://rainbowacademy.blogspot.com
__________________________________________________
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The only times that Sarah (8) has had difficulty in
making friends has been in school, where her autistic
tendencies become more pronounced. In Girl Scouts,
AWANA (a Bible club), theatre, and around the
neighborhood and in church, Sarah has made friends
with no problems. The same for my son Logan, who is 4.
To me, it's not a big deal. She has plenty of time for
real life socialization. Having to consider everyone
in her classroom to be a friend even if they don't
treat her as a friend was more difficult for her than
being able to avoid the kids in the neighborhood who
don't like her and pick on her. In school, she
couldn't avoid them.
Elizabeth
--- Lila <lilagianelli@...> wrote:
>=====
>
> This is my first time posting; I'm new to the group.
> My husband and
> I are newlyweds with no children yet, but we're
> (especially me) both
> excited to be parents some day and I'm interested in
> child
> development. I first read about unschooling a few
> months ago and I
> think it sounds so great. I wish every child was
> able to learn this
> way, but I know it will take a long time, if ever,
> for our country
> to realize that our system of education is not
> working.
>
> I would love to "unschool" my kids. However, I'm
> getting a lot of
> criticism on the whole socialization issue. Right
> now when people
> ask me about it I just say that I will make sure my
> kids have
> chances to be with their peers like playing a sport
> or instrument or
> art class, what ever they want to do. But then
> people tell me that
> every person they have ever known that was
> homeschooled did not fit
> in socially and they did not like them. I'm
> prepared for the fact
> that our kids will be a little different fromt their
> peers (we are
> non-Christian liberals in a Very Christian and
> conservative area),
> but I do want them to be able to make friends and be
> likeable.
>
> What do you guys say to about socializing your kids?
> Do your
> children have any trouble meeting new people and
> fitting in? We
> would love to hear some suggestions.
>
> Jon & Lila
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Elizabeth
Http://rainbowacademy.blogspot.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Donna Kovacs
Hi, Lila. This is now my second response to these emails. I hope I'm just emailing you, here. Congrats on being newly wed and I love the thought that you're already putting into your children's future!
Socialization: I'm desperately seeking some relaxed homeschoolers/unschoolers in our area. My closest homeschooling friend had just passed away after a courageous three year battle with Cancer. We're still friends with her hubbie and children, who will continue to homeschool this year, but will probably start with the school system next year. As more and more people look at unschooling, I'm sure there will be more and more opportunity for socialization, which, btw, is the last reason children go to school. Remember the rules: no talking, no passing notes, etc. Socialization is only allowed at recess or a few precious moments within the classroom. Recess time is not necessarily all positive socialization, either. My son came home three different times with life-threatening concussion. He was only in school that year from February until June. Is it any wonder he's no longer in school? The kid that hit him had a lot of problems and was mentally handicapped. He was bigger than me at the time (grade six, my son was one of the smallest kids in his class), and his parents felt he could do no wrong. Police had already completed an investigation into this child's behaviour and I thought all was well before allowing my son into that school. I was wrong with a capital W. :-(
We're actually leaving now for socialization with my friend's family (funeral was just a week ago today), then some shopping and a hockey game. Can't ever possibly need more socialization than what you get at a hockey game! ;-) Especially when you have a 15yo playing! lol!
I'm not sure I'm much help. I do live in a very rural area, too. Homeschoolers are hard enough to find, around here, as it is, never mind any that are relaxed enough to spend an afternoon socializing. I am still hopeful to find someone in the area! :)
Blessings to you,
Donna Kovacs: http://kovacsfamily.tripod.com
Socialization: I'm desperately seeking some relaxed homeschoolers/unschoolers in our area. My closest homeschooling friend had just passed away after a courageous three year battle with Cancer. We're still friends with her hubbie and children, who will continue to homeschool this year, but will probably start with the school system next year. As more and more people look at unschooling, I'm sure there will be more and more opportunity for socialization, which, btw, is the last reason children go to school. Remember the rules: no talking, no passing notes, etc. Socialization is only allowed at recess or a few precious moments within the classroom. Recess time is not necessarily all positive socialization, either. My son came home three different times with life-threatening concussion. He was only in school that year from February until June. Is it any wonder he's no longer in school? The kid that hit him had a lot of problems and was mentally handicapped. He was bigger than me at the time (grade six, my son was one of the smallest kids in his class), and his parents felt he could do no wrong. Police had already completed an investigation into this child's behaviour and I thought all was well before allowing my son into that school. I was wrong with a capital W. :-(
We're actually leaving now for socialization with my friend's family (funeral was just a week ago today), then some shopping and a hockey game. Can't ever possibly need more socialization than what you get at a hockey game! ;-) Especially when you have a 15yo playing! lol!
I'm not sure I'm much help. I do live in a very rural area, too. Homeschoolers are hard enough to find, around here, as it is, never mind any that are relaxed enough to spend an afternoon socializing. I am still hopeful to find someone in the area! :)
Blessings to you,
Donna Kovacs: http://kovacsfamily.tripod.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Lila
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:01 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Socializing
This is my first time posting; I'm new to the group. My husband and
I are newlyweds with no children yet, but we're (especially me) both
excited to be parents some day and I'm interested in child
development. I first read about unschooling a few months ago and I
think it sounds so great. I wish every child was able to learn this
way, but I know it will take a long time, if ever, for our country
to realize that our system of education is not working.
I would love to "unschool" my kids. However, I'm getting a lot of
criticism on the whole socialization issue. Right now when people
ask me about it I just say that I will make sure my kids have
chances to be with their peers like playing a sport or instrument or
art class, what ever they want to do. But then people tell me that
every person they have ever known that was homeschooled did not fit
in socially and they did not like them. I'm prepared for the fact
that our kids will be a little different fromt their peers (we are
non-Christian liberals in a Very Christian and conservative area),
but I do want them to be able to make friends and be likeable.
What do you guys say to about socializing your kids? Do your
children have any trouble meeting new people and fitting in? We
would love to hear some suggestions.
Jon & Lila
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mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], Seth W Bartels
<ecotopian@j...> wrote:
opportunity to model the work of living together with people?
Like "what's for dinner" doesn't have to be a burden...in theory, she
says, noticing it's 5pm and that question needs to be answered in
these parts...
I have a nice picture in my head of the kids being actively involved
in figuring out how to meet different needs, just like I picture them
helping with picking out and cooking foods. Mine are still pretty
little, so I don't have much actual experience to share.
--aj
<ecotopian@j...> wrote:
> then there's the issue of conflicting needs among siblings. if imanage
> to find something that my daughter's excited about, my son doesn'twant
> to go.now.
> i'm really struggling with trying to get everyone's needs met right
> *sigh*No ideas as far as "go here and do this" but can you look at it as an
>
> any suggestions?
opportunity to model the work of living together with people?
Like "what's for dinner" doesn't have to be a burden...in theory, she
says, noticing it's 5pm and that question needs to be answered in
these parts...
I have a nice picture in my head of the kids being actively involved
in figuring out how to meet different needs, just like I picture them
helping with picking out and cooking foods. Mine are still pretty
little, so I don't have much actual experience to share.
--aj
Angela S
I might suggest that you join a local homeschooling list and tell them a
little about yourself and your dd and see if anyone would be interested in a
play date. Sometimes going out of your comfort zone can really pay off.
(and if it doesn't, at least you tried.) I actually met a really good
friend at a mutual friend's child's birthday party. We chatted for 20
minutes or so, in a group and I just had a good feeling about her so I later
got her email and asked her if she wanted to get together. She had a dd
close in age to mine. It was a gamble, but the kids hit if off and so did
she and I. They are now our unschooling buddies. Keep trying and maybe
you'll find someone you can all really connect with.
Angela ~ Maine
game-enthusiast@...
*
any suggestions?
lisa.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
little about yourself and your dd and see if anyone would be interested in a
play date. Sometimes going out of your comfort zone can really pay off.
(and if it doesn't, at least you tried.) I actually met a really good
friend at a mutual friend's child's birthday party. We chatted for 20
minutes or so, in a group and I just had a good feeling about her so I later
got her email and asked her if she wanted to get together. She had a dd
close in age to mine. It was a gamble, but the kids hit if off and so did
she and I. They are now our unschooling buddies. Keep trying and maybe
you'll find someone you can all really connect with.
Angela ~ Maine
game-enthusiast@...
*
any suggestions?
lisa.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alexandriapalonia
You may want to ask a question (or series of questions) back to those
who are concerned about your hypothetical children:
What is the socialization they're worried about your future children
will be missing by not attending school?
Being able to survive in an artificially competitive group of children
the same age? Being placed based on age and not ability to either be
bored or stressed at keeping pace with "normal"? Will they miss being
bullied/ignored/taunted? Will they miss the chance to be bullies or
to taunt other children?
No, wait.
All public school children are likeable and have equal chances of
playing sports and chairing in the band. They all fit in, and
everyone likes them. No public school child has trouble meeting new
people. No public school child has a problem fitting in. This is
due to being in school, not a difference in personality and
temperament, right?
No. Wait.
It's a specious argument. There is no sense in addressing it as a
serious question, for you will only find yourself bolstering the false
premise it's based on.
Some people are likeable, easy going, out going, and make friends
easily. Some people aren't and don't. It doesn't have a damn thing
to do with where they spend their days (though I will point out that
in the 7-8 hour school day, teachers punish those who "socialize"
because they aren't paying attention in class).
Alex
who are concerned about your hypothetical children:
What is the socialization they're worried about your future children
will be missing by not attending school?
Being able to survive in an artificially competitive group of children
the same age? Being placed based on age and not ability to either be
bored or stressed at keeping pace with "normal"? Will they miss being
bullied/ignored/taunted? Will they miss the chance to be bullies or
to taunt other children?
No, wait.
All public school children are likeable and have equal chances of
playing sports and chairing in the band. They all fit in, and
everyone likes them. No public school child has trouble meeting new
people. No public school child has a problem fitting in. This is
due to being in school, not a difference in personality and
temperament, right?
No. Wait.
It's a specious argument. There is no sense in addressing it as a
serious question, for you will only find yourself bolstering the false
premise it's based on.
Some people are likeable, easy going, out going, and make friends
easily. Some people aren't and don't. It doesn't have a damn thing
to do with where they spend their days (though I will point out that
in the 7-8 hour school day, teachers punish those who "socialize"
because they aren't paying attention in class).
Alex
> I would love to "unschool" my kids. However, I'm getting a lot of
> criticism on the whole socialization issue. Right now when people
> ask me about it I just say that I will make sure my kids have
> chances to be with their peers like playing a sport or instrument or
> art class, what ever they want to do. But then people tell me that
> every person they have ever known that was homeschooled did not fit
> in socially and they did not like them. I'm prepared for the fact
> that our kids will be a little different fromt their peers (we are
> non-Christian liberals in a Very Christian and conservative area),
> but I do want them to be able to make friends and be likeable.
>
> What do you guys say to about socializing your kids? Do your
> children have any trouble meeting new people and fitting in? We
> would love to hear some suggestions.
>
> Jon & Lila
jenneferh2000
> > What do you guys say to about socializing your kids? Do yourLikewise, I think until you actually have children, it's hard to
> > children have any trouble meeting new people and fitting in? We
> > would love to hear some suggestions.
>
> I think until you are actually involved in homeschooling that it's
> hard to
> imagine what it's like.
imagine what it's like. I mean, you can imagine, but once you give
birth and actually have the child it is such a life altering
experience; it goes way beyond what you can possibly imagine!
I would suggest making friends with other pregnant women/families who
are due around the same time you are. Cultivating friendships with
them now may very well lead to future playdates with your children.
Perhaps you have a birthing group? Or look into prenatal yoga
classes or prenatal swimming classes. Those are great places to meet
people. And, just maybe some of those families will end up
unschooling. Lucky for me, my midwife is an unschooler!
As far as the whole socialization thing. Ha! We have so many social
events that we just can't keep up! In fact, I look forward to those
down days when we just stay home. And, my boys are only 3 and
17months! ;-)
-Jennefer in Oregon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eugene area unschoolers connect online at:
Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EugeneAreaUnschoolers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seth W Bartels
hi angela,
that's actually how we've met all the wonderful folks we know right now.
:) in such a small town, all the *alternative* circles seem to overlap a
lot (you know, the food co-op, LLL, the homeschool group, etc.) and we
know pretty much everyone already. our problem comes in that there's
just no regularity in our get togethers with these families and my dd
wants a friend to play with (who's not her brother and sister) every day,
whereas my ds would rather we didn't have company or go anywhere. :)
so, we'll keep trying and trying and hopefully something will turn up
that will satisfy everyone to at least some degree!
thanks for the suggestion...
lisa
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:31:34 -0500 "Angela S"
<game-enthusiast@...> writes:
I might suggest that you join a local homeschooling list and tell them a
little about yourself and your dd and see if anyone would be interested
in a
play date. Sometimes going out of your comfort zone can really pay off.
(and if it doesn't, at least you tried.) I actually met a really good
friend at a mutual friend's child's birthday party. We chatted for 20
minutes or so, in a group and I just had a good feeling about her so I
later
got her email and asked her if she wanted to get together. She had a dd
close in age to mine. It was a gamble, but the kids hit if off and so
did
she and I. They are now our unschooling buddies. Keep trying and maybe
you'll find someone you can all really connect with.
Angela ~ Maine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that's actually how we've met all the wonderful folks we know right now.
:) in such a small town, all the *alternative* circles seem to overlap a
lot (you know, the food co-op, LLL, the homeschool group, etc.) and we
know pretty much everyone already. our problem comes in that there's
just no regularity in our get togethers with these families and my dd
wants a friend to play with (who's not her brother and sister) every day,
whereas my ds would rather we didn't have company or go anywhere. :)
so, we'll keep trying and trying and hopefully something will turn up
that will satisfy everyone to at least some degree!
thanks for the suggestion...
lisa
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:31:34 -0500 "Angela S"
<game-enthusiast@...> writes:
I might suggest that you join a local homeschooling list and tell them a
little about yourself and your dd and see if anyone would be interested
in a
play date. Sometimes going out of your comfort zone can really pay off.
(and if it doesn't, at least you tried.) I actually met a really good
friend at a mutual friend's child's birthday party. We chatted for 20
minutes or so, in a group and I just had a good feeling about her so I
later
got her email and asked her if she wanted to get together. She had a dd
close in age to mine. It was a gamble, but the kids hit if off and so
did
she and I. They are now our unschooling buddies. Keep trying and maybe
you'll find someone you can all really connect with.
Angela ~ Maine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S
Lisa,
Aren't any of the parents willing to let their dd come over for a play date
without them? Could you call and ask them. Tell them you'll do the pick up
and drop off if it's an issue. We used to do this with one of my nieces.
Her mom wasn't willing to taxi her, but it was worth it to us to go get her
and bring her back (30 minutes each way) and her mom was always happy for
the break. If the child is spending a long enough time visiting, it doesn't
seem so inconvenient. Plus, your son gets to spend most of the day at home.
Keep your eyes open to the possibilities and something will come up. Good
luck!
Angela ~ Maine
game-enthusiast@...
---------------------------------------
that's actually how we've met all the wonderful folks we know right now.
:) in such a small town, all the *alternative* circles seem to overlap a
lot
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Aren't any of the parents willing to let their dd come over for a play date
without them? Could you call and ask them. Tell them you'll do the pick up
and drop off if it's an issue. We used to do this with one of my nieces.
Her mom wasn't willing to taxi her, but it was worth it to us to go get her
and bring her back (30 minutes each way) and her mom was always happy for
the break. If the child is spending a long enough time visiting, it doesn't
seem so inconvenient. Plus, your son gets to spend most of the day at home.
Keep your eyes open to the possibilities and something will come up. Good
luck!
Angela ~ Maine
game-enthusiast@...
---------------------------------------
that's actually how we've met all the wonderful folks we know right now.
:) in such a small town, all the *alternative* circles seem to overlap a
lot
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/17/2004 12:03:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kovacsfamily@... writes:
second year of unschooling after years of more traditional homeschooling. It
is a huge Christian Homeschooling area and even the group the we used to be
involved with and who I once considered inclusive thinks we are weird. Quite
honestly, I never quite fit in because of my liberal viewpoints and once I
discovered unschooling, I really didn't fit in.
After outings where I was asked in an openly negative tone things like.."Are
you still doing that unschooling thing?'"or a mom saying she unschools in the
same sentence as talking about math curriculum, I just quit hanging out with
them. One woman in particular was so caustic and dominant in the group that I
found I didn't want her negative energy surrounding me or my children. I
don't want to spend any time around people who disrespect their children in their
interactions with them or in their conversations about them or treat me with
disdain.
I heard Elton John say in an interview the other day, "I'm 57 and I don't
feel like pussy footing around any more." Not that he ever did but that's just
how I feel.
Some members of that group were not only a million miles from unschooling
but so obviously were more into controlling their children than enjoying and
honoring them. I just don't want my children around it and I don't feel like
putting up with crap any more..:-) Right now that means we are doing most things
with just the three of us but we're all okay with that for now.
I think it may be more difficult to find other unschoolers when your kids
are older. Unschoolers are few and far between to begin with and beginning a
group just naturally will have much younger children. The answer seems to lie
in not so much looking for unschoolers (although I haven't given up) but
encouraging each of our interests and passions and meeting other chilren and adults
that share them.
The times we are around other unschoolers are just the best and I try to
carry that energy and joy with me. Last weekend, we drove 6 hours to a one day
unschooling conference and that should get us through a few weeks! My 15 year
old keeps in touch through the internet with other unschoolers she met at
conferences and Not Back to School Camp. She hangs out with public school and more
traditionally homeschooled kids some but I think her spirit is fed by her
contacts with other unschoolers.
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kovacsfamily@... writes:
> I am still hopeful to find someone in the area! :)I'm working on the same thing. I have older kids (15 and 11). We're in our
>
second year of unschooling after years of more traditional homeschooling. It
is a huge Christian Homeschooling area and even the group the we used to be
involved with and who I once considered inclusive thinks we are weird. Quite
honestly, I never quite fit in because of my liberal viewpoints and once I
discovered unschooling, I really didn't fit in.
After outings where I was asked in an openly negative tone things like.."Are
you still doing that unschooling thing?'"or a mom saying she unschools in the
same sentence as talking about math curriculum, I just quit hanging out with
them. One woman in particular was so caustic and dominant in the group that I
found I didn't want her negative energy surrounding me or my children. I
don't want to spend any time around people who disrespect their children in their
interactions with them or in their conversations about them or treat me with
disdain.
I heard Elton John say in an interview the other day, "I'm 57 and I don't
feel like pussy footing around any more." Not that he ever did but that's just
how I feel.
Some members of that group were not only a million miles from unschooling
but so obviously were more into controlling their children than enjoying and
honoring them. I just don't want my children around it and I don't feel like
putting up with crap any more..:-) Right now that means we are doing most things
with just the three of us but we're all okay with that for now.
I think it may be more difficult to find other unschoolers when your kids
are older. Unschoolers are few and far between to begin with and beginning a
group just naturally will have much younger children. The answer seems to lie
in not so much looking for unschoolers (although I haven't given up) but
encouraging each of our interests and passions and meeting other chilren and adults
that share them.
The times we are around other unschoolers are just the best and I try to
carry that energy and joy with me. Last weekend, we drove 6 hours to a one day
unschooling conference and that should get us through a few weeks! My 15 year
old keeps in touch through the internet with other unschoolers she met at
conferences and Not Back to School Camp. She hangs out with public school and more
traditionally homeschooled kids some but I think her spirit is fed by her
contacts with other unschoolers.
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
I agree with these suggestions... My homeschool ed-u-ma-cation began at
La Leche League meetings [which somehow always went off topic to discuss
vax, circ, and homeschooling]. The families who accept my unschooling
ways the best are the ones I've known since I've had nurslings. You
should spend lots of time reading everything you can get your hands on
by John Holt; read what we (as the unschooling community) have
contributed to sandra's pages at sandradodd.com/unschooling and at the
boards at unschooling.com. Mothering magazine, though not about
unschooling, is the very best attachment parenting magazine, it's not
too early to start your subscription.
Enjoy your journey!!
~diana
jenneferh2000 wrote:
La Leche League meetings [which somehow always went off topic to discuss
vax, circ, and homeschooling]. The families who accept my unschooling
ways the best are the ones I've known since I've had nurslings. You
should spend lots of time reading everything you can get your hands on
by John Holt; read what we (as the unschooling community) have
contributed to sandra's pages at sandradodd.com/unschooling and at the
boards at unschooling.com. Mothering magazine, though not about
unschooling, is the very best attachment parenting magazine, it's not
too early to start your subscription.
Enjoy your journey!!
~diana
jenneferh2000 wrote:
>>>What do you guys say to about socializing your kids? Do your
>>>children have any trouble meeting new people and fitting in? We
>>>would love to hear some suggestions.
>>>
>>>
>I would suggest making friends with other pregnant women/families who
>are due around the same time you are. Cultivating friendships with
>them now may very well lead to future playdates with your children.
>Perhaps you have a birthing group? Or look into prenatal yoga
>classes or prenatal swimming classes. Those are great places to meet
>people. And, just maybe some of those families will end up
>unschooling. Lucky for me, my midwife is an unschooler!
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/16/04 7:09:17 PM, jenneferh2000@... writes:
<< I think until you actually have children, it's hard to
imagine what it's like. I mean, you can imagine, but once you give
birth and actually have the child it is such a life altering
experience; it goes way beyond what you can possibly imagine! >>
A friend of mine asked what to expect when he was about to become a father.
I told him to expect every molecule of his body to be replaced with
dad-matter, that it would make him a completely different person, and he would never
see the world in the same way again.
Sandra
<< I think until you actually have children, it's hard to
imagine what it's like. I mean, you can imagine, but once you give
birth and actually have the child it is such a life altering
experience; it goes way beyond what you can possibly imagine! >>
A friend of mine asked what to expect when he was about to become a father.
I told him to expect every molecule of his body to be replaced with
dad-matter, that it would make him a completely different person, and he would never
see the world in the same way again.
Sandra
nellebelle
>>>>The answer seems to lie in not so much looking for unschoolers (although I haven't given up) but encouraging each of our interests and passions and meeting other chilren and adults that share them.>>>>>>>I think that is good advice.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Seth W Bartels
it's worth an ask! thanks for the idea. :)
lisa
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:49:59 -0500 "Angela S"
<game-enthusiast@...> writes:
Lisa,
Aren't any of the parents willing to let their dd come over for a play
date
without them? Could you call and ask them. Tell them you'll do the pick
up
and drop off if it's an issue. We used to do this with one of my nieces.
Her mom wasn't willing to taxi her, but it was worth it to us to go get
her
and bring her back (30 minutes each way) and her mom was always happy for
the break. If the child is spending a long enough time visiting, it
doesn't
seem so inconvenient. Plus, your son gets to spend most of the day at
home.
Keep your eyes open to the possibilities and something will come up.
Good
luck!
Angela ~ Maine
game-enthusiast@...
---------------------------------------
that's actually how we've met all the wonderful folks we know right now.
:) in such a small town, all the *alternative* circles seem to overlap a
lot
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Get unlimited calls to
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Yahoo! Groups Links
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lisa
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:49:59 -0500 "Angela S"
<game-enthusiast@...> writes:
Lisa,
Aren't any of the parents willing to let their dd come over for a play
date
without them? Could you call and ask them. Tell them you'll do the pick
up
and drop off if it's an issue. We used to do this with one of my nieces.
Her mom wasn't willing to taxi her, but it was worth it to us to go get
her
and bring her back (30 minutes each way) and her mom was always happy for
the break. If the child is spending a long enough time visiting, it
doesn't
seem so inconvenient. Plus, your son gets to spend most of the day at
home.
Keep your eyes open to the possibilities and something will come up.
Good
luck!
Angela ~ Maine
game-enthusiast@...
---------------------------------------
that's actually how we've met all the wonderful folks we know right now.
:) in such a small town, all the *alternative* circles seem to overlap a
lot
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Get unlimited calls to
U.S./Canada
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
** After outings where I was asked in an openly negative tone things
like.."Are
you still doing that unschooling thing?'"or a mom saying she unschools
in the
same sentence as talking about math curriculum, I just quit hanging out
with
them. One woman in particular was so caustic and dominant in the group
that I
found I didn't want her negative energy surrounding me or my children.**
I would definitely agree with you about ditching the caustic person.
But a mom who just uses math curriculum and asks questions about
unschooling, even if they are uninformed questions, could be a possible
friend or source of friends for your kids. (I'm thinking they must get
done with their lessons earlier in the day than people doing a whole
curriculum.)
I imagine that if I were surrounded by a large group of conservative
people (and if I were a Christian myself), I would try hosting playdates
(if they would come) or open-ended art exploration or science
exploration days. I think that would be a way to find who are the most
flexible and kind-hearted people in the group, or at least who had the
most interesting kids. I suspect (without much knowledge) that in a
fundamentalist HS group the strictest people might be the loudest, and
it might *seem* that everyone else toed the line all the time. But I
think, in their hearts, there are some moms who are less adamant, less
doctrinaire, and maybe more meek who are more tolerant than the
party-line, or at least less bossy about it. So I think friendships
may be possible with some of the less hard-line members of the group,
but they are probably hiding behind the hard-line members for fear of
stepping out of line and looking soft. I think it would take time to
get to know them. (Although, maybe you can know them right off the bat
based on how decently they treat their children within the essential
framework of childraising their church promotes. Some clear differences
of sympathy should stand out pretty distinctly. Or is it so consistent
that none of them seem nice to kids at all?)
(And, if they won't let you in their group at all and won't speak to you
on the street, then what I'm saying isn't any use.)
Betsy
like.."Are
you still doing that unschooling thing?'"or a mom saying she unschools
in the
same sentence as talking about math curriculum, I just quit hanging out
with
them. One woman in particular was so caustic and dominant in the group
that I
found I didn't want her negative energy surrounding me or my children.**
I would definitely agree with you about ditching the caustic person.
But a mom who just uses math curriculum and asks questions about
unschooling, even if they are uninformed questions, could be a possible
friend or source of friends for your kids. (I'm thinking they must get
done with their lessons earlier in the day than people doing a whole
curriculum.)
I imagine that if I were surrounded by a large group of conservative
people (and if I were a Christian myself), I would try hosting playdates
(if they would come) or open-ended art exploration or science
exploration days. I think that would be a way to find who are the most
flexible and kind-hearted people in the group, or at least who had the
most interesting kids. I suspect (without much knowledge) that in a
fundamentalist HS group the strictest people might be the loudest, and
it might *seem* that everyone else toed the line all the time. But I
think, in their hearts, there are some moms who are less adamant, less
doctrinaire, and maybe more meek who are more tolerant than the
party-line, or at least less bossy about it. So I think friendships
may be possible with some of the less hard-line members of the group,
but they are probably hiding behind the hard-line members for fear of
stepping out of line and looking soft. I think it would take time to
get to know them. (Although, maybe you can know them right off the bat
based on how decently they treat their children within the essential
framework of childraising their church promotes. Some clear differences
of sympathy should stand out pretty distinctly. Or is it so consistent
that none of them seem nice to kids at all?)
(And, if they won't let you in their group at all and won't speak to you
on the street, then what I'm saying isn't any use.)
Betsy
[email protected]
Hi
I am new to this group too. I have two toddlers ds 4 and dd 3. I am finding that we do not fit in with the local chistian homeschooling groups. We do have a wonderful time doing our thing. We meet people at the library, gymnastics, soccer, the museum, etc. At this point I am not worrying about meeting other homeschoolers.
Someone suggested Mothering mag. may I also suggest Life Learning magazine. It has wonderful articles about parenting and learning. It is child centered and really good.
Mariellen
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
I am new to this group too. I have two toddlers ds 4 and dd 3. I am finding that we do not fit in with the local chistian homeschooling groups. We do have a wonderful time doing our thing. We meet people at the library, gymnastics, soccer, the museum, etc. At this point I am not worrying about meeting other homeschoolers.
Someone suggested Mothering mag. may I also suggest Life Learning magazine. It has wonderful articles about parenting and learning. It is child centered and really good.
Mariellen
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Donna Kovacs
I love your response and respect the fact that you're not addressing someone who already has kids, but I do want to point out that it is so much easier to find three year olds and 17 month olds who aren't in school, then it is to find 6, 11 and 15 yos who aren't! :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: jenneferh2000
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:01 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Socializing
> > What do you guys say to about socializing your kids? Do your
> > children have any trouble meeting new people and fitting in? We
> > would love to hear some suggestions.
>
> I think until you are actually involved in homeschooling that it's
> hard to
> imagine what it's like.
Likewise, I think until you actually have children, it's hard to
imagine what it's like. I mean, you can imagine, but once you give
birth and actually have the child it is such a life altering
experience; it goes way beyond what you can possibly imagine!
I would suggest making friends with other pregnant women/families who
are due around the same time you are. Cultivating friendships with
them now may very well lead to future playdates with your children.
Perhaps you have a birthing group? Or look into prenatal yoga
classes or prenatal swimming classes. Those are great places to meet
people. And, just maybe some of those families will end up
unschooling. Lucky for me, my midwife is an unschooler!
As far as the whole socialization thing. Ha! We have so many social
events that we just can't keep up! In fact, I look forward to those
down days when we just stay home. And, my boys are only 3 and
17months! ;-)
-Jennefer in Oregon
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jenneferh2000
> I do want to point out that it is so much easier to find three yearThis is probably true...
> olds and 17 month olds who aren't in school, then it is to find 6,
> 11 and 15 yos who aren't! :-)
However, I must say that about half if not more of my three year
old's friends are already in preschool or some sort of regular day
care. And, quite a few of my 17 month old's friends are in some sort
of regular day care. :-0
I guess, my overall message was that I think it is important to
cultivate friendships early on. If you are lucky enough to find a
group of friends whose parenting/life philosophy is close to yours,
chances are you can all get along and socialize well even though you
all might not be unschoolers. And, perhaps you would meet some
unschoolers along the way. It seems like this would be more
beneficial if not, enjoyable, than 'grinning and bearing it' in
larger, regular 'homeschooling' groups that seem to be made up of
largely conservative right wingers.
-Jennefer in Oregon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eugene area unschoolers connect online at:
Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EugeneAreaUnschoolers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Martin Carbone
this is a reply to jenneferh2000, who wrote - If you are lucky enough to
find a group of friends whose parenting/life philosophy is close to yours,
chances are you can all get along and socialize well even though you all
might not be unschoolers.
------------------------
In my humble opinion, you would be even luckier to find a group of civilized
friends who do NOT share your 'parenting/life philosophy'
Chances are you would learn from each other and possibly come closer to (a)
a real understanding of things and (b) true wisdom.
Hanging around with people who are like you is a sure way to rigidize, get
in a rut and ossify. It is way more fun to entertain different ideas and
styles. As an adult,you can probably handle the diversity and stay
uncorrupted.
With children, of course, there is a risk that they may be corrupted by
strange ways. It is your job as a parent to help them learn how to be
confront various ideas and pick the best ones for their own moral quivers.
That might be the most important job you have.
As a nation and a culture,it seems to me we are all becoming too 'groupy'
and seem to be having a difficult time talking to one another, let alone
understand the other. Don't let your children grow up that way.
Marty Carbone
Martin R. Carbone (martinrc@...)
5123 Don Rodolfo Drive, Carlsbad, CA 92008
Phone 760-603-1910 / Fax 760-603-1930
Websites:
http://www.craftkaboom.com
http://www.wisdomandcourage.com
NEW http://www.onetwothreeletterwordbook.com
find a group of friends whose parenting/life philosophy is close to yours,
chances are you can all get along and socialize well even though you all
might not be unschoolers.
------------------------
In my humble opinion, you would be even luckier to find a group of civilized
friends who do NOT share your 'parenting/life philosophy'
Chances are you would learn from each other and possibly come closer to (a)
a real understanding of things and (b) true wisdom.
Hanging around with people who are like you is a sure way to rigidize, get
in a rut and ossify. It is way more fun to entertain different ideas and
styles. As an adult,you can probably handle the diversity and stay
uncorrupted.
With children, of course, there is a risk that they may be corrupted by
strange ways. It is your job as a parent to help them learn how to be
confront various ideas and pick the best ones for their own moral quivers.
That might be the most important job you have.
As a nation and a culture,it seems to me we are all becoming too 'groupy'
and seem to be having a difficult time talking to one another, let alone
understand the other. Don't let your children grow up that way.
Marty Carbone
Martin R. Carbone (martinrc@...)
5123 Don Rodolfo Drive, Carlsbad, CA 92008
Phone 760-603-1910 / Fax 760-603-1930
Websites:
http://www.craftkaboom.com
http://www.wisdomandcourage.com
NEW http://www.onetwothreeletterwordbook.com
pam sorooshian
You might want to have a look at our support group's website:
<dragontree.org>
Lots of pictures there of kids in our group - socializing up a storm!
<G>
And some written stuff in between the pictures about the unschooling
nature of the group.
-pam
<dragontree.org>
Lots of pictures there of kids in our group - socializing up a storm!
<G>
And some written stuff in between the pictures about the unschooling
nature of the group.
-pam
On Nov 15, 2004, at 10:01 PM, Lila wrote:
> However, I'm getting a lot of
> criticism on the whole socialization issue. Right now when people
> ask me about it I just say that I will make sure my kids have
> chances to be with their peers like playing a sport or instrument or
> art class, what ever they want to do.
jenneferh2000
> In my humble opinion, you would be even luckier to find a group ofAlthough I agree that you can learn a lot from people who do NOT
> civilized
> friends who do NOT share your 'parenting/life philosophy'
> Chances are you would learn from each other and possibly come
>closer to (a)
> a real understanding of things and (b) true wisdom.
share your 'parenting/life philosophy' I don't think I would actively
seek them out because we are already surrounded by them! We do not
live in a segregated commune *grin*. I am more interested in people
who share my philosophy and feel like I can learn much more from them
on our path. And even in this group of 'like minded' there is so
much diversity. We all have so many differences that we can't help
but learn from each other unless we have our blinders on.
I feel like I have traveled so far in understanding unschooling,
mindful parenting etc. I wouldn't choose to regularly hang out with
a group who wasn't there yet. I wouldn't choose to hang out with a
group who would 'bring me down' or stray me off track just to have
exposure to something 'different'. Just because it's 'different'
doesn't mean it's 'good' or 'healthy'.
Don't get me wrong, we certainly have lots of friends who are very
different from us, and we love hanging out with them- it's just when
it comes to making new friends, I'm going to go out of my way to
arrange a playdate with someone more like me, than someone who's way
different.
> As a nation and a culture,it seems to me we are all becomingI think it's better to have alot of little groups rather than one
>too 'groupy'
> and seem to be having a difficult time talking to one another, let
>alone
> understand the other.
big one. What would that be like? Consensus or conformity? Also, I
don't think we have a problem talking to one another (blab, blab,
blab); however, I do feel like we have a difficult time really
listening to one another.
> With children, of course, there is a risk that they may beLOL! And likewise, there is a risk OUR children will corrupt others
>corrupted by
> strange ways.
in strange ways! :-0
Thanks for the food for thought,
Jennefer in Oregon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eugene area unschoolers connect online at:
Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EugeneAreaUnschoolers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--- In [email protected], Martin Carbone
<martinrc@a...> wrote:
> this is a reply to jenneferh2000, who wrote - If you are luckyenough to
> find a group of friends whose parenting/life philosophy is close toyours,
> chances are you can all get along and socialize well even thoughyou all
> might not be unschoolers.civilized
> ------------------------
>
> In my humble opinion, you would be even luckier to find a group of
> friends who do NOT share your 'parenting/life philosophy'closer to (a)
>
> Chances are you would learn from each other and possibly come
> a real understanding of things and (b) true wisdom.rigidize, get
>
> Hanging around with people who are like you is a sure way to
> in a rut and ossify. It is way more fun to entertain differentideas and
> styles. As an adult,you can probably handle the diversity and staycorrupted by
> uncorrupted.
>
> With children, of course, there is a risk that they may be
> strange ways. It is your job as a parent to help them learn how tobe
> confront various ideas and pick the best ones for their own moralquivers.
> That might be the most important job you have.too 'groupy'
>
> As a nation and a culture,it seems to me we are all becoming
> and seem to be having a difficult time talking to one another, letalone
> understand the other. Don't let your children grow up that way.
>
> Marty Carbone
nellebelle
>>> As a nation and a culture, it seems to me we are all becoming too 'groupy' and seem to be having a difficult time talking to one another, let alone understand the other.>>>>Becoming? My mother was born in 1932. During her childhood in a mostly white, northeastern US community, everyone knew which ethnic group other families were from - Irish, Polish, etc. - and it definitely mattered.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***Chances are you would learn from each other and possibly come closer
to (a)
a real understanding of things and (b) true wisdom.***
In the twenty nine years before my son was born I never met one person
who wasn't spanked or otherwise punished by parents and among my friends
who had children there were no "non spankers."
Every day of my life and my sons life the majority of the people we see
and talk to and socialize with people who don't share our views about
respectful parenting. I don't need to seek them out, they are the
reality of my life.
So, (a) *a real understanding of things* is that some people think it's
ok to hit smaller defenseless people in their care and I don't. I
understand I don't enjoy watching a child get hit, I understand I don't
enjoy watching my son's horror at seeing another person hit by his mom, I
understand my son doesn't benefit from seeing other people abused. I
understand hitting someone to make them do what you want them to do is
vile.
and *possibly come closer to (b) true wisdom* I get closer to true
wisdom when I spend my time with people who are smart and thoughtful and
loving enough to live respectfully with their kids.
***It is way more fun to entertain different ideas and
styles. As an adult,you can probably handle the diversity and stay
uncorrupted.***
It is not fun to see a child humiliated and shamed and hit, nor is it fun
to confront a parent over such matters nor is it fun to explain to your
child why a parent would choose to hit her own kid. I don't consider
the hitting of children to be "diversity" I consider it to be abuse and
in the same way I don't choose to spend my time with guys who beat their
wives or kick their dogs or punch their elderly parents, I don't spend my
time with people who smack their kids.
***It is your job as a parent to help them learn how to be
confront various ideas and pick the best ones for their own moral
quivers.***
My son doesn't have a "moral quiver" he is a moral person.
***As a nation and a culture, it seems to me we are all becoming too
'groupy'
and seem to be having a difficult time talking to one another, let alone
understand the other. Don't let your children grow up that way.***
I think you don't have much experience with unschooled children if you
fear they might have a difficult time talking to others or understanding
differing points of view.
Deb L
to (a)
a real understanding of things and (b) true wisdom.***
In the twenty nine years before my son was born I never met one person
who wasn't spanked or otherwise punished by parents and among my friends
who had children there were no "non spankers."
Every day of my life and my sons life the majority of the people we see
and talk to and socialize with people who don't share our views about
respectful parenting. I don't need to seek them out, they are the
reality of my life.
So, (a) *a real understanding of things* is that some people think it's
ok to hit smaller defenseless people in their care and I don't. I
understand I don't enjoy watching a child get hit, I understand I don't
enjoy watching my son's horror at seeing another person hit by his mom, I
understand my son doesn't benefit from seeing other people abused. I
understand hitting someone to make them do what you want them to do is
vile.
and *possibly come closer to (b) true wisdom* I get closer to true
wisdom when I spend my time with people who are smart and thoughtful and
loving enough to live respectfully with their kids.
***It is way more fun to entertain different ideas and
styles. As an adult,you can probably handle the diversity and stay
uncorrupted.***
It is not fun to see a child humiliated and shamed and hit, nor is it fun
to confront a parent over such matters nor is it fun to explain to your
child why a parent would choose to hit her own kid. I don't consider
the hitting of children to be "diversity" I consider it to be abuse and
in the same way I don't choose to spend my time with guys who beat their
wives or kick their dogs or punch their elderly parents, I don't spend my
time with people who smack their kids.
***It is your job as a parent to help them learn how to be
confront various ideas and pick the best ones for their own moral
quivers.***
My son doesn't have a "moral quiver" he is a moral person.
***As a nation and a culture, it seems to me we are all becoming too
'groupy'
and seem to be having a difficult time talking to one another, let alone
understand the other. Don't let your children grow up that way.***
I think you don't have much experience with unschooled children if you
fear they might have a difficult time talking to others or understanding
differing points of view.
Deb L