Laura Bourdo

I read here quite often about issues surrounding sleep patterns for younger children, and since my Liam came home from school three years ago at age 13, we have lifted regular bedtimes altogether. We're both night owls, so a 1-2 am bedtime worked fine for us for a long time. We'd get up around 10 am or so (and could manage the occasional 9 am meeting/activity with other hs'ers), and we'd have plenty of good hours during the afternoon and such. Now that Liam is 16, things have changed on two fronts, and I have a problem I can't seem to come to grips with.

About 6 months or so ago, Liam made a decision about what he wanted to do with himself after he turns 18. He definitely wants to go to college, and he wants to pursue a demanding track -- probably physics or computer engineering. He did some research and we talked a lot, and he decided that he wanted to start becoming more intentional about academic work.

He's got hs'ing friends who are taking dual credit community college courses, but he doesn't want to do that. Maybe the occasional computer course for fun, or a non-credit audited course perhaps, but he steadfastly maintains that he wants to work independently for now, and experience college and grad school on the 'normal' track -- starting with other 18 year olds. So far, so good.

He dragged me out (not unwillingly :-) to several bookstores over several months, and we set up a rough plan together of what he wanted to cover over the next two years. Reading and discussing college prep lit, learning to write a college level essay, catching up on his math through calculus, teaching himself basic physics, filling in his gaps in history. I worried that he was feeling that the only way he could 'learn' was to do it in school-fashion, and we talked about that a lot. Rather than getting curricular materials, he chose living books in the areas in which he was interested. We planned on renting lots of videos -- historical movies as well as documentaries. I mentioned a civil war battlefields trip here a while back. He enjoys picking up historical novels as well, and non-fiction books on the lives and work of well known scientists and the like. You get the idea, I think. He just wants to be more intentional, and I support him in that.

What does this have to do with sleep problems, you're probably asking by now. Well, that's the second thing that has changed recently, and at exactly the same time. I'm convinced it has to be related somehow.

His sleep pattern has changed dramatically. He now stays up until 5, 6, or even 7 am most nights, and sleeps until at least 3 pm, and even though he asks me to wake him at an earlier hour, I virtually have to drag him out of bed then. It took me two hours to get him up today, and that was after his alarm rang for over an hour unanswered.

He's groggy when he wakes up, and spends several hours on the computer, just puttering around. (That, in itself, doesn't bother me. He's playing an online text-based rpg where he has earned an administrator position, and he's getting a lot out of it. Besides, we all need adjustment time in ur 'mornings.') The problem is that we are now missing all daytime activities -- both with others in the hs'ing community and things we used to enjoy doing together. Mo more museum trips or outings. Or very few. No more cruising Asian antique shops or Aboriginal art galleries. (Frankly, I'm getting bored.)

In addition, he has no desire to follow though on any of the things he was so interested in a few months ago. Books go unread. Movies are returned unwatched. What he does remain interested in, he doesn't feel like doing until after midnight. Then, he's hot and ready to go, full of ideas, and I'm ready to flake out. Then, he says he doesn't want to do any of those things without me, and they remain untouched.

I am totally confused by these hot and cold messages he's sending. I've considered several things, and will give you more of my thinking on each of them if you're interested. Hormonal changes. Depression. Internal confusion about how to go about pursuing his goals/a lack of true motivation/leftover negative messages from his school years...

I think, though, that this initial post has gone on long enough. If you've gotten this far, I appreciate it.

Any ideas?

Any other questions I can answer to clarify?

tia,
Laura B.

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In a message dated 10/25/04 5:23:07 PM, LauraBourdo@... writes:

<< Reading and discussing college prep lit, learning to write a college
level essay, catching up on his math through calculus, teaching himself basic
physics, filling in his gaps in history. I worried that he was feeling that the
only way he could 'learn' was to do it in school-fashion, and we talked about
that a lot. >>

If he's expecting you to "do the work," teach him, be his scheduler, that's
rough and no good, in my opinion. He could take basic-level classes, or work
on it on his own.

-=- He now stays up until 5, 6, or even 7 am most nights, and sleeps until at
least 3 pm, and even though he asks me to wake him at an earlier hour, I
virtually have to drag him out of bed then. It took me two hours to get him up
today, and that was after his alarm rang for over an hour unanswered.-=-

Just say no.
You don't "have to" drag him out of bed.
You don't have to take two hours, or listen to his alarm for an hour.

Try once, ask him if he wants to get up, and if the answer is yes, try again
in ten minutes, tell him it's your second and final attempt, and then let him
sleep. That's what I woud do.

-=-The problem is that we are now missing all daytime activities -- both with
others in the hs'ing community and things we used to enjoy doing together. -=-

He's old enough to stay home by himself. Are there other kids? Just go.
Are you missing the group and outings? Go without him.

-=- No more cruising Asian antique shops or Aboriginal art galleries.
(Frankly, I'm getting bored.)-=-

You can't depend on him for your joy in life. That's codependency.
Maybe he's just needing a break from expectations. He might go through that
sleep cycle and come back around, waking up later and later until he's gone
around the clock. Both my boys have gone through that (at younger ages, but
still... I've seen it).

-=-In addition, he has no desire to follow though on any of the things he was
so interested in a few months ago. Books go unread. Movies are returned
unwatched. -=-

I do that sometimes. I think I want something and then I don't. A kind of
stillness/ennui comes, and it's like being in stasis and then I pop back out
re-energized.

-=- Then, he says he doesn't want to do any of those things without me, and
they remain untouched.
-=-

I think you're letting the deadline of turning 18 change your life unduly.

-=- Hormonal changes.-=-

No doubt.

-=- Depression. -=-

I doubt it; some of the hormonal change and teen-boy stuff has tinges of
that, but it's normal growing into separate manhood.

-=-Internal confusion about how to go about pursuing his goals/a lack of true
motivation/leftover negative messages from his school years...-=-

Absolutely.
Don't encourage him to cling to schedules and "musts" at this point.
If he's really interested in physics, he'll care about physics. If not, it
shouldn't be a failure or a lack, it should be like tennis or Japan or big band
music. Either he's interested or he's not.

Sandra

Kelli Traaseth

**I worried that he was feeling that the only way he could 'learn' was to do it in school-fashion, and we talked about that a lot.**



I think it sounds like this is right on. Don't you?

He's only been out of school for 3 years and a lot of his homeschooling friends are doing the combo school/co-op thing. Its hard to be different from everyone else. Especially if he was in school until he was 13. Sounds like a lot of schooling still on the brain.



Also, maybe he isn't cut out for that time of learning. He might become the person he's meant to be through "doing". His RPG stuff is what is exciting to him right now, maybe that will be his vocation.



Yesterday we got the Video Game Revolution DVD that people have talked about. Its Awesome. There are a few mainstream thoughts through it, but a lot of positive stuff. In that DVD you can see how huge the industry is,,so maybe your son will learn all his stuff by just playing. People do that all the time,, maybe you can bring that up to him. Tell him its OK if all the book stuff doesn't work out. Maybe he thought that's what he wanted at the time, but figured out that it was bogus.



***The problem is that we are now missing all daytime activities -- both with others in the hs'ing community and things we used to enjoy doing together. Mo more museum trips or outings. Or very few. No more cruising Asian antique shops or Aboriginal art galleries. (Frankly, I'm getting bored.)***


I agree with what Sandra said about still doing what you want to do. I know it is hard when one of your family kind of breaks off into their own thing. But I explain that we have to keep up with everyone else's interests too.

I have a son who also is on the same schedule. He's a lot younger so I sometimes have worries, especially when no other kids around here are like this. But you should see him, he is so happy, so OK in his skin. When my son is up, I try and spend some time with him. I can't stay up til wee hours of the morning, I have a 7 yr old too who get up in the a.m. But I try and make the most of the time we do have.

This exact topic came up last night as we were watching the DVD. I asked my son if he thought life was too boring, that he wanted to do video games instead of "real life". I sometimes worry about depression, stuff like that. Some people think that he should be more involved in "real life", that I'm not offering him enough other stuff. He said,, "Mom, you've tried that. I love these video games." And he is happy, he's fun to talk to and he says he's going to write video game walk throughs. This is his course of study right now, he's only 11.



Maybe your son just needs to reevalute his decision. Tell him its OK. Heck, better now than when he is in college. Or maybe college won't be for him,, that's OK too. :)



Kelli~






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In a message dated 10/26/04 8:54:14 AM, kellitraas@... writes:

<< Maybe your son just needs to reevalute his decision. Tell him its OK.
Heck, better now than when he is in college. Or maybe college won't be for
him,, that's OK too. :) >>

And maybe he won't want to go unti he's 20, or 22. So what?

He COULD become depressed if you and he keep that structure of impending doom
and possible failure up making a shadow on his today, and on his moment.
Maybe he wants to stay in bed to avoid getting up and seeing that he's one day
nearer to his "goal."

Dump the goal.
Regain the moment.

Sandra

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:

>
> Dump the goal.
> Regain the moment.

May I make this a refrigerator magnet?

Brilliant. I needed to hear it. So does my son, come to think of it.

Julie B

crazeemom77043

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>

> If he's expecting you to "do the work," teach him, be his
scheduler, that's
> rough and no good, in my opinion. He could take basic-level
classes, or work
> on it on his own.

He's not expecting me to 'teach' it to him, but he says he wants to
do it together. But then, when I ask him if he wants to do it today,
the answer is always no. That's the hot and cold he's blowing, and
I'm stumped.

>
> Try once, ask him if he wants to get up, and if the answer is yes,
try again
> in ten minutes, tell him it's your second and final attempt, and
then let him
> sleep. That's what I woud do.

Sounds good and reasonable.

>
> You can't depend on him for your joy in life. That's
codependency.
> Maybe he's just needing a break from expectations.

Ouch. I AM missing his company. We had so much fun the first two
years. I'd never thought of just going on my own.

But, of course, kids need to separate themselves from their parents.
It must be that much harder for hs'ed kids, seeing as they're with us
all the time. Maybe he's sleeping through our time together because
he just needs more time on his own. Is this what you mean?

(To be absolutely honest, I'm dealing with serious regrets that I
didn't discover unschooling sooner. I read all about the rest of
you, with your younger children, and I just ache for that kind of
openness and creativity. Two years with him wasn't enough for me.
I'm not wanting to let go, I realize.)

Laura B.

crazeemom77043

--- In [email protected], Kelli Traaseth
<kellitraas@y...> wrote:
> **I worried that he was feeling that the only way he could 'learn'
was to do it in school-fashion, and we talked about that a lot.**
>
>
>
> I think it sounds like this is right on. Don't you?
>

It does sound right on. Definitely. But how do I help him break
free of this trapped way of thinking? I don't believe it. I don't
act like I believe it. What can I do for him?

Another thing. He has brought up, many times, the idea that he needs
to develop more 'self-discipline.' He thinks about it a lot -- in
regard to expercise, his diet, his 'studies,' his sleep patterns.
He's ASKING me for help in this. He says that he feels like he's
floundering about, trying to develop good habits in these areas.

This has drawn me toward a position I'm not comfortable with at all --
being his taskmaster. My gut tells me that he'll develop these
internal skills on his own, as he needs them, but how can I reassure
him that this is true?

>
> I have a son who also is on the same schedule. He's a lot younger
so I sometimes have worries, especially when no other kids around
here are like this. But you should see him, he is so happy, so OK in
his skin.


You talk about your son being happy in his skin. Liam doesn't appear
to be so, much of the time. At the end of the day, he often seems
restless and bored, saying things like he doesn't have anything to
show for his day. He'll come to me every few months (about once a
year, I guess) and say that he thinks he needs more structure and
that he can only get that at school. We talk about the realities of
school, which he remembers with painful clarity, and that option gets
dismissed rapidly, but he still struggles with these feelings.

I wouldn't be nearly as anxious about this if I had a boy who was
happy in his skin. How can I help him achieve this?

Laura B.

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/26/2004 2:42:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
LauraBourdo@... writes:

<<<But, of course, kids need to separate themselves from their parents.
It must be that much harder for hs'ed kids, seeing as they're with us
all the time.>>>

My oldest turned 16 this past July. She has worked at least 20 hours a week
since May, and is now regularly working 35 to 40. When she first started
work, I missed her so much everyday! But now, it seems odd when she has a day
off and is home. I look back and think that this has all been part of us
separating from each other.

We are still best friends, but no longer dependent on each other. Emily
does so much more on her own. Recently she saved up money to record a demo and
did all of the work on her own, including contacting studios, practicing,
obtaining music, designing graphics, and going in to record. On the day that
she was going to record, two of her friends stopped by to drive her there, and
they thought that it was odd that I wasn't going with her. It sort of
surprised me and worried me a bit that she might have wanted me to. When she got
home, I asked her, and she reassured me that this was something that she very
much wanted to do on her own with me not there. I think that doing things on
your own is part of what growing up is about.

Jacqueline




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/26/04 12:42:33 PM, LauraBourdo@... writes:

<< We had so much fun the first two

years. >>

That's two years more fun that most moms and teenaged boys enjoy together, I
bet.

And you're not done, you've just hit a big contrived road bump.

You can refuse to help maintain that bump in the road.

-=-Maybe he's sleeping through our time together because

he just needs more time on his own. Is this what you mean?

-=-

No, maybe he's just not wanting to wake up to the fear of failure, is what I
think I meant.

-=- I read all about the rest of

you, with your younger children, and I just ache for that kind of

openness and creativity. -=-

Have you told your son that? Have you just talked to him about your regrets
and joys?

Maybe take him to lunch at a quiet place and tell him some mushy things and
say you don't want his fear or avoidance of college to darken and dampen the
next two years of his life.

Sandra

crazeemom77043

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
>
> And maybe he won't want to go unti he's 20, or 22. So what?

I've thought of this. We've discussed it, but maybe I REALLY need to
give him permission to take this route if he chooses. We've already
set college back by a year so that he can take a gap year and
travel. I've just allowed myself to get caught up in crap like
worrying about the SATs. I need to get way over that.

>
> He COULD become depressed if you and he keep that structure of
impending doom
> and possible failure up making a shadow on his today, and on his
moment.

This is what's caused so much confusion for me. He's initiated this
goal-setting. I thought I was following his lead. He comes to ME
with it, and then it fits right in with my own concerns.

> Dump the goal.
> Regain the moment.
>

Okay. Now I'm near tears. Good tears. How can this be so alien to
my way of thinking and yet still ring so true?

I really am committed to the concept of unschooling. I love it. It
feels so right in my head -- it's just the practice of it that causes
me trouble sometimes. Does that make any sense?

I was talking to DH on the phone last night (modern miracle: he's in
the middle of a war zone in Iraq) and as supportive as he's been, his
reaction to this was to bring up the 'threat' of public school
again. Immediately, I was back in the groove. No, that's NOT the
answer. I know, deep down, that Liam doesn't need college to have a
happy life. If his heart's not in this college prep thing right now,
I said, that's okay. He's in love with computers. He's already well
on his way to developing professional skills -- building systems,
networking, learning programming and security, and participating in a
local group that's building a cluster computer (whatever that is :-)
he's really excited about it). It wouldn't take much in the way of
technical school for him to be right where he'd love being. And all
of this he's done on his own with no prompting from me.

I'm letting him sleep. Only now, I really want to go in there and
crawl into bed with him and hold him for as long as I can.

Laura B.

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/26/04 12:58:02 PM, LauraBourdo@... writes:

<< Another thing. He has brought up, many times, the idea that he needs

to develop more 'self-discipline.' He thinks about it a lot -- in

regard to expercise, his diet, his 'studies,' his sleep patterns.

He's ASKING me for help in this. >>

It's not self discipline if one's mom is doing the work and the worrying.

You might ask him to show you what he intends to do, and then just be a
witness, not an alarm clock or a supervisor. But if even just telling you "I'm
going to get up at 10:00 and then exercise and then organize my room" would make
him a failure, then you could refuse to even be his witness.

I would recommend, if you don't trust him (if you smell a trap in this "help
me" stuff), just saying "Do what you want to do tomorrow. If you want to get
up, great! Get up! If you don't, that's okay too." And smile nicely. So
that he doesn't feel trapped either.

It seems you're both ensnaring each other in this.

-=-This has drawn me toward a position I'm not comfortable with at all --

being his taskmaster. My gut tells me that he'll develop these

internal skills on his own, as he needs them, but how can I reassure

him that this is true?-=-

Only by telling him that when he's ready to be his own taskmaster, he will do
so. And that in the meantime, you're unwilling to do that.

Maybe tell him if you thought that was the way to be, he would still be in
school, still being told when and where and how to do his homework, but that
you're unwilling to do what you don't believe in.

-=-He'll come to me every few months (about once a

year, I guess) and say that he thinks he needs more structure and

that he can only get that at school. -=-

Remind him that school is an option, and staying home is an option.
Getting up or sleeping are options.
Whining to mom is an option, but not a very useful one.

The relationship between me and Holly is such that if she came to me at the
end of a day whining that she had nothing to show for it, I would probably say
"But it gave you something good to whine about!" and she would laugh, or go
with the joke and say she's tired of whining, she's already done that (all very
whinily put <g>). Or I would say it's okay to have some totally
nothing-to-show days, and I bet maybe her body just needed a break, or maybe she was
thinking new thought that just hadn't surfaced yet. Or I would ask if she wanted to
go do something out of the house. Sometimes "out of the house" is the
spellbreaking thing.

-=-I wouldn't be nearly as anxious about this if I had a boy who was

happy in his skin. How can I help him achieve this?-=-

By trying to make him comfortable without getting under his skin yourself?

Kirby isn't as comfortable as the other two kids. I don't talk to him about
that, because it would make it worse. I bring him snacks, change his towels,
find something to compliment him on (his hair looks good, or thanks for doing
whatever little thing, or thanks for staying with Holly on Friday when he
might rather have gone and done other things). I tell him a story about a
mutual friend that I think he might appreciate. I remind him about an upcoming
birthday or something he might care about. I asked him yesterday if he needed
anything else for his Halloween costume.

If you can afford a little trip out of town, might that help?
Marty and I did a ghost town and SW New Mexico trip, and it was GREAT.

Sandra

crazeemom77043

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
>
> -=- I read all about the rest of
>
> you, with your younger children, and I just ache for that kind of
>
> openness and creativity. -=-
>
> Have you told your son that? Have you just talked to him about
your regrets
> and joys?
>
> Maybe take him to lunch at a quiet place and tell him some mushy
things and
> say you don't want his fear or avoidance of college to darken and
dampen the
> next two years of his life.
>


Okay, now you've done it. :-') I'm really gushing now. I'm glad
he's asleep and can't see me crying here over the computer.

I think this is a marvelous idea, Sandra. Thank you.

Laura B.

crazeemom77043

--- In [email protected], ivorygrace7@a... wrote:
On the day that
> she was going to record, two of her friends stopped by to drive
her there, and
> they thought that it was odd that I wasn't going with her. It
sort of
> surprised me and worried me a bit that she might have wanted me
to. When she got
> home, I asked her, and she reassured me that this was something
that she very
> much wanted to do on her own with me not there. I think that
doing things on
> your own is part of what growing up is about.
>
> Jacqueline

I know Liam is really looking forward to getting his free-and-clear
driver's license, so he can be out on his own more often. Somehow,
though, having him off working or being with friends doesn't cause me
any anxiety at all. I don't regret that. I've already been through
that process with one child. We sailed through fine, and still have
a great relationship.

I wonder what's making this one different for me...

Laura B.

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/26/04 1:05:18 PM, LauraBourdo@... writes:

<< We've discussed it, but maybe I REALLY need to

give him permission to take this route if he chooses. We've already

set college back by a year so that he can take a gap year and

travel. >>

Maybe inventory all the adults he knows, as to whether and how early they
went to college; whether they finished quickly, slowly or at all; and whether
they used that degree right away, and whether they still do; and whether they
had student loans. That would give him real life examples to look to, not
theoreticals.

-=-I was talking to DH on the phone last night (modern miracle: he's in

the middle of a war zone in Iraq) -=-

Yikes. Maybe that would keep your son in the bed more.
Maybe you're stressed and he is less likely to want to hang out with you
because one or the other of you might be further stressed by the moods and
commments? (guessing)

-=- It wouldn't take much in the way of

technical school for him to be right where he'd love being. -=-

Could he be taking one class maybe at a technical school now?

Maybe you could take him to see Team America. It's funny and gross and
profound and embarrassing and artsy and tacky. It's something the two of you could
talk about and have as a shared experience. You could look up who and why
afterwards, maybe (individually, yourself, share what you find, ask what he
knows if he's the more knowledgeable, whatever).

This comes to mind because Marty and Holly and I went last night, on short
notice, on a quickie "hey, I want to go, who wants to go?" Keith said he'd
rather wait for the dollar movie. Kirby said he'll wait until DVD. I said I
wanted to see it before election day. We went to Hastings afterwards to try to
get the soundtrack to see what lyrics we missed. It comes out November 2.
"My birthday!" said Holly very hintingly. Election day. There won't be time
for people to learn the songs and hum them in line at the polls.


WARNING to anyone sensitive or squeamish:
It's a Trey Parker/Matt Stone production. Don't go if you're not willing to
hear "the F word" and see some cheap make-believe gore and be embarrassed at
what you laughed so loudly at. But if you see it you'll probably think 200
useful thoughts in the days and months after. (There is also puke. Puppet
puke. Still, not a good movie for eating during. Finish your snacks early, if
you must get snacks. Seriously.)

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/26/04 1:15:05 PM, LauraBourdo@... writes:

<< I'm glad

he's asleep >>

See?
This list improved your life.
Now you're GLAD he sleeps until 3:00!

<g>


Sandra

crazeemom77043

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/26/04 1:15:05 PM, LauraBourdo@h... writes:
>
> << I'm glad
>
> he's asleep >>
>
> See?
> This list improved your life.
> Now you're GLAD he sleeps until 3:00!
>
> <g>
>
>
> Sandra

I went in just a moment after I wrote this (after drying my eyes),
and let him know what time it was and asked if he wanted to get up,
or sleep some more. He squinted up at me and said, 'Sleep.' I
said, 'Okay.' There was a long pause, then he opened his eyes wider
and said, 'REALLY?'

I ruffled his hair and told him that I'd been thinking, and that if
he needed to be on this schedule right now, maybe we should listen to
his body and just let this thing work itself out on his own. He
rolled over, buried his face in his pillow, and reached his hand up
to squeeze mine. <sniffle> He was snoring again by the time I
closed the door.

Laura B.

crazeemom77043

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
>
> I would recommend, if you don't trust him (if you smell a trap in
this "help
> me" stuff), just saying "Do what you want to do tomorrow. If you
want to get
> up, great! Get up! If you don't, that's okay too." And smile
nicely. So
> that he doesn't feel trapped either.
>
> It seems you're both ensnaring each other in this.


Interesting choice of words...smelling a trap...ensnaring each other
in this. Uncomfortable words, but interesting. I'm thinking about
this.

We've always had high expectations for this boy. From his earliest
years he's been precocious, and the schools identified him as
profoundly gifted. I was never comfortable with that label, as I
believe that we are all exceptional in our own ways, and that
intellectual intelligence is just one of many. (Gardner was a relief
to read, years later.)

However, it's clear that I still allowed myself to fall into a trap
of a certain set of expectations for Liam. This was made worse by
the fact that neither his dad nor I made it to college, and we've had
a difficult time of it financially. We never gave the kids any other
option than college right after high school. It was just expected.

I'm wondering now just how much damage we've done, and how I can
begin to undo it.

Smelling a trap. Ensnaring each other in this.

When Liam came home three years ago, even though we chose the
unschooling route, the expectations didn't change. Just the pathway
to get there did. He still needed to fulfill his potential, and that
meant college -- for all of us. I gave him lots of time to deschool,
without any pressure, but when he started making noises about college
prep, I jumped on it like a cat on a june bug.

Now, you're asking me to consider the possibility that he may be
suffering from a fear of failure. A type of performance anxiety.
Man! Isn't that what I brought him home from school to get away from?

And yet, it fits -- as much as I'd like to deny the possibility.

What do I do when I feel the pressures of life crowding in? I
retreat. We all do. I spend hours reading. I journal. I sleep
more. (!) I avoid my responsibilities. I certainly don't approach
each day with joy and expectation.

Well, why shouldn't he have the same reaction to such pressure --
whether it's internally or externally imposed? Or both?

Honesty time. I've had a hard time seeing this and reacting to it
appropriately because I don't handle it well when it happens to me,
either.

Okay. It's time to switch gears. I've got to let him loose, I see.
I've got to let him let himself loose.

I read your essay about playing yesterday, Sandra. I boookmarked
it. I'm going to read it again. Often. And I like your suggestion
about Team America and getting out of the house. We can do more of
that, even if we have to leave later in the day to do it. :-)

It HAS been rough with his dad gone under these circumstances, and I
guess we've been doing just a little too much navel-gazing. I've
been pretty preoccupied with it, and needing to take extra care of
myself. That means I do less caretaking of Liam. Your suggestions
of little things you do to love Kirby are very welcome.

As an insiration, I'd love to hear more from everyone. What do
others of you do to show sensitive care to your in-drawn children?
(Maybe I'll start a new thread.)

Laura B.


>
> -=-I wouldn't be nearly as anxious about this if I had a boy who
was
>
> happy in his skin. How can I help him achieve this?-=-
>
> By trying to make him comfortable without getting under his skin
yourself?
>
> Kirby isn't as comfortable as the other two kids. I don't talk to
him about
> that, because it would make it worse. I bring him snacks, change
his towels,
> find something to compliment him on (his hair looks good, or thanks
for doing
> whatever little thing, or thanks for staying with Holly on Friday
when he
> might rather have gone and done other things). I tell him a story
about a
> mutual friend that I think he might appreciate. I remind him about
an upcoming
> birthday or something he might care about. I asked him yesterday
if he needed
> anything else for his Halloween costume.
>
> If you can afford a little trip out of town, might that help?
> Marty and I did a ghost town and SW New Mexico trip, and it was
GREAT.
>
> Sandra

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected], "crazeemom77043"
<LauraBourdo@h...> wrote:

> When Liam came home three years ago, even though we chose the
> unschooling route, the expectations didn't change. Just the pathway
> to get there did. He still needed to fulfill his potential, and that
> meant college -- for all of us. I gave him lots of time to deschool,
> without any pressure, but when he started making noises about college
> prep, I jumped on it like a cat on a june bug.


You've pegged my own problem with my oldest. i was telling my dh again today that every
time I think I've given up expectations re: college, another circumstance presents itself
that sends me into panic (and unlike you, my dh and I are college grads one with an MA
and I'm currently getting an MA). College has always been a given to us... until now.

Two days ago my very precocious bright son told me that he'd like to be a manager at a
Starbucks as a career. (He currently works part time at Starbucks in our local B&N.)

I totally blew it and reacted with all my horror at such a lowly position that will not feed a
family etc. (note to self: as of yet, this person does not HAVE a family to support).When I
heard these patently shaming words come pouring out of my mouth, I stopped short.

"I'm so sorry. Disregard all previous unhelpful and rude comments. Please, tell me why this
career path appeals to *you*."

"I like it because I'm good at working there. I like the atmosphere and people and it isn't a
stressful job. It doesn't pump up my adrenaline and it doesn't depress me. I can do it and
still do all the other things that I really enjoy doing away from work."

Oh.

What sound reasoning.

What could I say?

Then I asked if he liked his life this year... (He quit doing anything for college prep and left
parttime enrollment at high school). Now he sleeps all day, goes to work four or five days
a week, plays War Hammer and other RPGs on his free nights and is acting in a
Shakespeare company once a week.

He said he likes his life and could do this for a long time.

I buttoned my lip and went back to making him food, teasing him, pinching his butt, and
singing Usher songs while he played X Box.

All is well with the world again... until the next time I freak out.

Julie B

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/26/2004 1:49:16 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
LauraBourdo@... writes:
He squinted up at me and said, 'Sleep.' I
said, 'Okay.' There was a long pause, then he opened his eyes wider
and said, 'REALLY?'
----------

Does that mean you've been expressing resentment regularly about the sleeping?
Or does it just mean that he said he wanted to be up by a certain time and it
was past that time?

It doesn't matter for the rest of us. Just maybe for you.
Is he sleeping to avoid something other than what people have guessed?

And really, none of it matters because you're on a new plan for a while
anyway.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/26/2004 3:10:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
LauraBourdo@... writes:
From his earliest
years he's been precocious, and the schools identified him as
profoundly gifted. I was never comfortable with that label,
-------------

But their labelling of him affected you, and thereby affected him.

One more strike against labels.

What if this were the last week of his life?
That might be another tool to use.
What if he had a serious blow to the head and was no longer "gifted" but was
actually "disabled"? How would you treat him this evening or tomorrow?

Shake up your thinking and see what settles.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]