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-=-the same sort of thing is happening with letting go of the whole
concept of good food before bad food idea. -=-

"Bad food" isn't a good concept, and so the way this is worded I think
there's a misunderstanding of what people have recommended.

-=- we're buying more junk
food than we ever have before, scarfing it, regretting we did, and
then wishing we had more money to buy more junk. -=-

"We" the family? Parents?

-=-we've always kind
of had it where we didn't buy sweets much, and if we had them, they
were to be kind of rationed out. with the restraint gone, it's
almost like competetion...who can get to it the fastest kind of
thing. -=-

If rationing it out works best for your family, it certainly won't keep you
from being unschoolers.

It's not a "let them eat cake" first step situation.
I think there are some constants, or cause/effect factors:

-Dessert-training is fraught with problems.
-"Clean your plate" causes problems.
-Forcing children to finish food (givingthem the leftovers for their next
meal) is cruel.
-Limitations can create desire.
Arbitrary rules (no seconds, wait for noon, salad first) don't help anyone.

When a family hasn't really looked at the basic factors like those, but just
tries to jump from one shore to another, it doesn't accomplish much. If the
parents don't understand the principles, the kids can't.

When people have said "If you had candy all the time, they would eventually
slack off on the candy," they didn't mean to say "START HERE: get a ton of
candy."

Sandra


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Seth W Bartels

>"Bad food" isn't a good concept, and so the way this is worded >I think
>there's a misunderstanding of what people have recommended.

i was referring to my own previous concept. healthy food vs. junk food.
good vs. bad. that's how i looked at it.


>-=- we're buying more junk
>food than we ever have before, scarfing it, regretting we did, >and
>then wishing we had more money to buy more junk. -=-

>"We" the family? Parents?

all of us. the kids will be gracious and share their treats (i let them
each pick and extra goody on our last trip), but they're still gone
before the night's out. for the record, it was an entire box of fruit by
the foot, a big bag of gummy worms and a box of cereal bar thingies. all
gone before bed even though we got home after 9pm from the store. and now
everytime we go, i'm getting nagged the whole trip through about what
they're going to get and having them change their mind twelve times.
multiply it by three and factor in that one's a two year old who doesn't
understand if she's choosing clam juice or coffee when she picks
something up.


>If rationing it out works best for your family, it certainly >won't keep
you
>from being unschoolers.

i don't want my kids to grow up like me...using food to feel good.
sneaking junk food and feeling bad about themselves. i can't control the
outcomes, but i don't want to create problems either.

-Dessert-training is fraught with problems.

yes, i'm experiencing it now. :)

-"Clean your plate" causes problems.

i've never forced this one. i trust my kids to eat as much as they're
hungry for. reminds me of a story my mom often relates about her strict
german father. my uncle didn't finish his allotted portion, so he was
put in the bathtub and had his plate dumped on his head. as a child.
ugh.


-Forcing children to finish food (giving them the leftovers for their
next
meal) is cruel.

sounds like my dad. he'd put the food on our plates (giving me more than
i would have chosen to eat) and then make me sit at the table til i'd
eaten it all, snuck it to the dog, or frustrated him enough to let me go.

-Limitations can create desire.

i still deal with this as an adult. and it's my main motivation in
releasing controls on my kids. i want them to make healthy positive
associations with food. i just don't know how to help them since i am
having a hard time modeling good behaviors. i sneak. i overeat. when i
get in a bad cycle and gain weight, i stop exercising and hide from
people, i guilt myself and cry about being fat when i'm not really. how
can she not pick that up?


>Arbitrary rules (no seconds, wait for noon, salad first) don't >help
anyone.

i get that. but those things don't feel arbitrary to me because, for me,
they're almost protective. i live on a food reward system personally and
i don't see how to break it. boy, i've got issues...and i didn't realize
how negative for everyone they are. :(

>When people have said "If you had candy all the time, they >would
eventually
>slack off on the candy," they didn't mean to say "START HERE: >get a
ton of
>candy."

so, then where do you start? how does one go about something like this
gradually?

lisa

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