Learning to read
Ren Allen
'I wont lie I am somewhat worried about Courtney learning to read.
She turns 7 in July and seems to have no intrest at all."
NORMAL!!!
Don't let that damn schoolish thinking make you fearful. The "normal"
range for children to read (from a biological standpoint, which
actually makes SENSE) is anywhere from 3-12 years of age. And falling
outside of those paramters is NOT problematic.
Jared (12) just learned to read this year. Shall we start a thread
about all the cool things that are great about learning to read later?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
She turns 7 in July and seems to have no intrest at all."
NORMAL!!!
Don't let that damn schoolish thinking make you fearful. The "normal"
range for children to read (from a biological standpoint, which
actually makes SENSE) is anywhere from 3-12 years of age. And falling
outside of those paramters is NOT problematic.
Jared (12) just learned to read this year. Shall we start a thread
about all the cool things that are great about learning to read later?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Erin Erin
About reading, my sons learned to read at 3 and 4 practically on their own,
but my daughter who is 8 has only just begun to show an interest, and only
because she plays at www.runescape.com and wants to be able to chat with the
other players. Your daughter is not going to want to be illiterate forever,
she'll show an interest when something she wants to do requires reading.
but my daughter who is 8 has only just begun to show an interest, and only
because she plays at www.runescape.com and wants to be able to chat with the
other players. Your daughter is not going to want to be illiterate forever,
she'll show an interest when something she wants to do requires reading.
On 2/7/06, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> 'I wont lie I am somewhat worried about Courtney learning to read.
> She turns 7 in July and seems to have no intrest at all."
>
>
> NORMAL!!!
> Don't let that damn schoolish thinking make you fearful. The "normal"
> range for children to read (from a biological standpoint, which
> actually makes SENSE) is anywhere from 3-12 years of age. And falling
> outside of those paramters is NOT problematic.
>
> Jared (12) just learned to read this year. Shall we start a thread
> about all the cool things that are great about learning to read later?
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Secondary school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g> Graduate
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
> school education online<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg> High
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=BV3EOkp5uIRJ0eqRAZQNcw> Chicago
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>
> ------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> - Visit your group "unschoolingbasics<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>"
> on the web.
>
> - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nicole Willoughby
Jared (12) just learned to read this year. Shall we start a thread
about all the cool things that are great about learning to read later?
Im learning .........slowly :) My 2 year old is in there counting something and just counted to 10. The old me would be jumping in saying oh thats so good now after 10 comes 11, 12.................................
Nicole
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
about all the cool things that are great about learning to read later?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sounds good to me :)
Im learning .........slowly :) My 2 year old is in there counting something and just counted to 10. The old me would be jumping in saying oh thats so good now after 10 comes 11, 12.................................
Nicole
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I would love to read a thread like that.
Gayle
Shall we start a thread
about all the cool things that are great about learning to read later?
SPONSORED LINKS
Secondary school education
Graduate school education
Home school education
Graduate school education online
High school education
Chicago school education
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gayle
Shall we start a thread
about all the cool things that are great about learning to read later?
SPONSORED LINKS
Secondary school education
Graduate school education
Home school education
Graduate school education online
High school education
Chicago school education
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April Morris
One of the greatest aspects of my kids reading at an older age (except for
my youngest, they read at age 8.5, 11, 14 respectively) is the discovery of
books on tape. I love to read aloud, but can only read aloud so many hours
at a time and we are on the go a lot. We love books on tape and I honestly
don't think I would have discovered that treasure had my kids been reading
independently at a young age. We still love them!!
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
my youngest, they read at age 8.5, 11, 14 respectively) is the discovery of
books on tape. I love to read aloud, but can only read aloud so many hours
at a time and we are on the go a lot. We love books on tape and I honestly
don't think I would have discovered that treasure had my kids been reading
independently at a young age. We still love them!!
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 2/7/06, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> 'I wont lie I am somewhat worried about Courtney learning to read.
> She turns 7 in July and seems to have no intrest at all."
>
>
> NORMAL!!!
> Don't let that damn schoolish thinking make you fearful. The "normal"
> range for children to read (from a biological standpoint, which
> actually makes SENSE) is anywhere from 3-12 years of age. And falling
> outside of those paramters is NOT problematic.
>
> Jared (12) just learned to read this year. Shall we start a thread
> about all the cool things that are great about learning to read later?
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"I read a book called How To Teach Your Baby To
Read. "
I detest those books....that's the guy that thinks reading earlier is
better and uses food rewards to get children to read. Yucky!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Read. "
I detest those books....that's the guy that thinks reading earlier is
better and uses food rewards to get children to read. Yucky!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Vickisue Gray
I don't remember that part, but it has been 16 years...lol...I'm getting old.
I never used food rewards. How strange to use food. I never got into their baby training either.
I read every book I could get my hands on back then and used the peices and parts I liked. Now, I just read what all the moms out there in cyberspace have to say about their experience.
Wow, one post and so much reaction! : ) Sorry, everyone.
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:26:08 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Learning to read
"I read a book called How To Teach Your Baby To
Read. "
I detest those books....that' s the guy that thinks reading earlier is
better and uses food rewards to get children to read. Yucky!
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I never used food rewards. How strange to use food. I never got into their baby training either.
I read every book I could get my hands on back then and used the peices and parts I liked. Now, I just read what all the moms out there in cyberspace have to say about their experience.
Wow, one post and so much reaction! : ) Sorry, everyone.
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:26:08 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Learning to read
"I read a book called How To Teach Your Baby To
Read. "
I detest those books....that' s the guy that thinks reading earlier is
better and uses food rewards to get children to read. Yucky!
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
--vickisue_gray@...> wrote:
Sorry, I have to disagree! This is NOT true for every child. --
I think Vicki was just saying that children would LEARN to read if you
read to them and with them. Correct me if I'm wrong Vicki.
Not every person enjoys reading for pleasure, that is true. But with a
parent that reads to their children, helps them decipher what they
need etc...that child will eventually learn to read.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
>I'd say example is the best way to encourage reading. If you read,they will read.>>>
Sorry, I have to disagree! This is NOT true for every child. --
I think Vicki was just saying that children would LEARN to read if you
read to them and with them. Correct me if I'm wrong Vicki.
Not every person enjoys reading for pleasure, that is true. But with a
parent that reads to their children, helps them decipher what they
need etc...that child will eventually learn to read.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Vickisue Gray
I think Vicki was just saying that children would LEARN to read if you
read to them and with them. Correct me if I'm wrong Vicki.
Ren, you are correct. I am finding that one must be careful in how one responds. : )
I am also finding that my upbringing (that I've tried to escape) comes out. ie blame instead of credits. (I hear my mothers negatives now....) Just shows how important a role being a mom is. We influence our children whether it be positive or negative. _,_._,___
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
read to them and with them. Correct me if I'm wrong Vicki.
Ren, you are correct. I am finding that one must be careful in how one responds. : )
I am also finding that my upbringing (that I've tried to escape) comes out. ie blame instead of credits. (I hear my mothers negatives now....) Just shows how important a role being a mom is. We influence our children whether it be positive or negative. _,_._,___
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
"not readily available info about learning to read" might include that
there's no hard coded "right time" or "deadline" on learning, that
neither of the two main schools of thought (whole language and phonics)
are exclusively the right way or only way, etc. Most information out
there is based on the school system's way of thinking and doing, not
based on free, unschooled, people learning to read organically as they
are ready and have need to use the printed representation of language.
I'll just stop with that and let Joyce expand on her own thought.
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
there's no hard coded "right time" or "deadline" on learning, that
neither of the two main schools of thought (whole language and phonics)
are exclusively the right way or only way, etc. Most information out
there is based on the school system's way of thinking and doing, not
based on free, unschooled, people learning to read organically as they
are ready and have need to use the printed representation of language.
I'll just stop with that and let Joyce expand on her own thought.
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
Maybe *reading up* on learning styles will help :- ) Seriously, I'm very much the "give me a workbook/printed materials and I'm set type" person but both DH and DS are much more hands-on, let me try it, show me how types - give them a hands-on demonstration, a video, that sort of thing and they go to town. For example, y'know those DIY furniture pieces like nightstands and bookcases? We've done many of them over the years. My job is to find the instructions. DH gathers all the pieces and sorts them out, and starts working. If he needs to know something "do I use the 3/8 inch screws or the ¼ inch screws on this part?" he asks and I check the instructions. On occasion, he'll ask for the instructions to check the pictures to make sure that he's got things facing correctly etc. And he's a voracious reader who learned to read when he was not quite 5 (before he started school) by comparing what he knew a favorite book said and the symbols on the pages, so there's no lack of reading skills there, just a preference in his wiring for doing and seeing. DS, too, is much more likely to absorb things if there's something tactile, physical about it - even if the physical activity isn't exactly necessary for or related to the thing he wants to learn. For instance, he wanted to memorize something way back when he was maybe 5 or so. We tried reading it together, saying it out loud together, not getting through. Then we scattered old throw pillows on the floor - one per word (short phrase). He jumped from pillow to pillow saying the words. He had it memorized in under 10 minutes - he just needed his muscles to be active to connect the words.
As to how DS learned to read: he was read to a lot from early on, even if he wasn't looking at the page - sometimes he was snuggled down just listening and other times he wanted to hear the story AND he wanted to be in motion, or playing with Legos or whatever. There were the ever-popular (lol) fridge magnets with letters on them. We played silly rhyming games (and the rhymes didn't have to be "real" words even). Lots and lots of verbal stuff. He started recognizing familiar signs Stop, Exit, Burger King, etc. Then when he was not quite 5, he decided that we "had to" get Hooked on Phonics so he could learn to read. We discussed it a bit - it cost money, it would take time to order and ship and get to our house, etc. However, we did have 100 Easy Lessons (another popular program - I bought it on sale half off when DS was a toddler "just in case") and we could start that right away. He was good with "right away". Tried the first lesson - just seeing so many words on the page (even though most of it is instruction for the adult/parent/teacher) had him spooked and things went downhill fast. Put that away forever after about 5 minutes or so. Asked him to give me some time to think about it. At bedtime, I pulled out the Bob Books series and explained that they were stories that helped people learn to read (sort of - it was long ago, not sure how that discussion went exactly). He was willing to try. That first night, I read all the books in the first series with him looking on. I think it took maybe 15-20 minutes to read the whole lot. Next night, he read the first book or two and said "I'm a reader!", then handed me the ones he wanted me to read. Third night we played with them a bit more, picking and choosing which to read and who would read. Then those got boring. So, we started delving into other stuff - sometimes he'd read, sometimes I'd read, sometimes we'd alternate words, sentences, paragraphs, pages. Being "responsible" for an entire book was a bit much for him at that point, but "sharing" the reading was fine - I was the one responsible to read the book, and he'd read whatever bits he wanted to. Along the way, also, we did some silly stuff - for instance, I got really tired of reading a particular book over and over and over and... So, on the umpteenth "read it again", I turned to the back page and read it from the last letter to the first letter siht ekil (like this). It sounded really funny, DS got the giggles, it occupied a larger portion of my brain and, to draw in the 'schoolish' terminology, he got to experience me actually, for real, using word approach skills - working out how the different combinations should sound. Instead of the faked adult "k-ah-tuh" type thing, I was actually having to figure out these "new" words. Anyhow, at that point he could read. And he delved into a variety of stuff at will. Then, once he had mastered that to his satisfaction, he moved on. He *could* read but he didn't read a lot - mostly he'd read as needed to gather information (where can I find Giratina in Pokemon?) and that was it. Along the way, what I learned was that he had some sort of internally developed "phonics" sorted out. What I saw was things like: he knew the word "water" from various places. Then he came across a book about "weather". Looks similar...you've got "w", "at", and "er" but there are other letters and the context didn't fit. A quick "okay, there's the "ea" and a "th", this is how they sound, and this word is "weather". He went from 3 "blocks" to 5 "blocks" of letter/sound combinations. And they're not necessarily the standard things you'd find in a phonics book. What's interesting about it is that he can read quite well without ever having to memorize all those words and sounds and *exceptions*, there are no "exceptions" in his own personal "phonics system", there are just additional blocks to account for variations in the language. We've had discussions over the years about really odd words/pronunciations, why they are that way, where they come from, etc. That's something I enjoy exploring anyhow so we already had books like "The Mother Tongue: English and how it got that way" (I think that's the correct title) that explains why you have one kniFe but several kniVes, why on the hoof it's cattle, on the plate it's beef, etc. Fast forward some 6 years now (he turned 11 this summer). It's only in the last 6 to 9 months that he's actually picked up books as a means of entertainment, not just information. So, there are ebbs and flows to the process as well. Reading would have been a onerous task, devoid of joy and interest, if he was required to read along the way when he wasn't interested in it as anything but a means of gathering particular types of information. Also, during that interval, he might ask us to find out something for him and we would (I got very good at looking things up in the Pokedex book we have).
In its essence, reading is about matching the symbols to the spoken sounds. Kids learn to speak without "lessons" by being spoken to and having a reason to speak (like getting more cheese). Reading is similarly organic once the constrictions of the school system are removed - the connections happen when a person is ready to match the sounds to the symbols in a manner that makes sense to them. It may not be the same "method" that any other person uses, but it works. And, too, not every person who can read *chooses* to read for entertainment (our old veterinarian mostly reads professional materials, occasionally a biography of a person he is interested in to start with, rarely for general entertainment - he'd rather be out in his fields with his livestock or in the yard with his pet dogs or hiking in the woods for entertainment or talking with friends over a cup of tea).
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As to how DS learned to read: he was read to a lot from early on, even if he wasn't looking at the page - sometimes he was snuggled down just listening and other times he wanted to hear the story AND he wanted to be in motion, or playing with Legos or whatever. There were the ever-popular (lol) fridge magnets with letters on them. We played silly rhyming games (and the rhymes didn't have to be "real" words even). Lots and lots of verbal stuff. He started recognizing familiar signs Stop, Exit, Burger King, etc. Then when he was not quite 5, he decided that we "had to" get Hooked on Phonics so he could learn to read. We discussed it a bit - it cost money, it would take time to order and ship and get to our house, etc. However, we did have 100 Easy Lessons (another popular program - I bought it on sale half off when DS was a toddler "just in case") and we could start that right away. He was good with "right away". Tried the first lesson - just seeing so many words on the page (even though most of it is instruction for the adult/parent/teacher) had him spooked and things went downhill fast. Put that away forever after about 5 minutes or so. Asked him to give me some time to think about it. At bedtime, I pulled out the Bob Books series and explained that they were stories that helped people learn to read (sort of - it was long ago, not sure how that discussion went exactly). He was willing to try. That first night, I read all the books in the first series with him looking on. I think it took maybe 15-20 minutes to read the whole lot. Next night, he read the first book or two and said "I'm a reader!", then handed me the ones he wanted me to read. Third night we played with them a bit more, picking and choosing which to read and who would read. Then those got boring. So, we started delving into other stuff - sometimes he'd read, sometimes I'd read, sometimes we'd alternate words, sentences, paragraphs, pages. Being "responsible" for an entire book was a bit much for him at that point, but "sharing" the reading was fine - I was the one responsible to read the book, and he'd read whatever bits he wanted to. Along the way, also, we did some silly stuff - for instance, I got really tired of reading a particular book over and over and over and... So, on the umpteenth "read it again", I turned to the back page and read it from the last letter to the first letter siht ekil (like this). It sounded really funny, DS got the giggles, it occupied a larger portion of my brain and, to draw in the 'schoolish' terminology, he got to experience me actually, for real, using word approach skills - working out how the different combinations should sound. Instead of the faked adult "k-ah-tuh" type thing, I was actually having to figure out these "new" words. Anyhow, at that point he could read. And he delved into a variety of stuff at will. Then, once he had mastered that to his satisfaction, he moved on. He *could* read but he didn't read a lot - mostly he'd read as needed to gather information (where can I find Giratina in Pokemon?) and that was it. Along the way, what I learned was that he had some sort of internally developed "phonics" sorted out. What I saw was things like: he knew the word "water" from various places. Then he came across a book about "weather". Looks similar...you've got "w", "at", and "er" but there are other letters and the context didn't fit. A quick "okay, there's the "ea" and a "th", this is how they sound, and this word is "weather". He went from 3 "blocks" to 5 "blocks" of letter/sound combinations. And they're not necessarily the standard things you'd find in a phonics book. What's interesting about it is that he can read quite well without ever having to memorize all those words and sounds and *exceptions*, there are no "exceptions" in his own personal "phonics system", there are just additional blocks to account for variations in the language. We've had discussions over the years about really odd words/pronunciations, why they are that way, where they come from, etc. That's something I enjoy exploring anyhow so we already had books like "The Mother Tongue: English and how it got that way" (I think that's the correct title) that explains why you have one kniFe but several kniVes, why on the hoof it's cattle, on the plate it's beef, etc. Fast forward some 6 years now (he turned 11 this summer). It's only in the last 6 to 9 months that he's actually picked up books as a means of entertainment, not just information. So, there are ebbs and flows to the process as well. Reading would have been a onerous task, devoid of joy and interest, if he was required to read along the way when he wasn't interested in it as anything but a means of gathering particular types of information. Also, during that interval, he might ask us to find out something for him and we would (I got very good at looking things up in the Pokedex book we have).
In its essence, reading is about matching the symbols to the spoken sounds. Kids learn to speak without "lessons" by being spoken to and having a reason to speak (like getting more cheese). Reading is similarly organic once the constrictions of the school system are removed - the connections happen when a person is ready to match the sounds to the symbols in a manner that makes sense to them. It may not be the same "method" that any other person uses, but it works. And, too, not every person who can read *chooses* to read for entertainment (our old veterinarian mostly reads professional materials, occasionally a biography of a person he is interested in to start with, rarely for general entertainment - he'd rather be out in his fields with his livestock or in the yard with his pet dogs or hiking in the woods for entertainment or talking with friends over a cup of tea).
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]