Knowing when to offer info and when to bite your tongue
cncnawilloughby
Today Courtney , my 6 year old got some paper and wrote a good attempt
at a treble clef and a bunch of quarter and eight notes . She got her
little brothers care bear piano and announced that she was going to
play some music for me . Her timing for the eight and quarteer notes
was surprisingly good.
I had this really bad urge to start teaching her about names of the
notes and the rest of my limited musical knowledge but I bit my tongue
because I was afraid Id ruin her fun and I was enjoying watching her
enjoying playing a song for me.
So Im just wondering at what point if ever do you offer information
about whatever subject they are currently interested in?
at a treble clef and a bunch of quarter and eight notes . She got her
little brothers care bear piano and announced that she was going to
play some music for me . Her timing for the eight and quarteer notes
was surprisingly good.
I had this really bad urge to start teaching her about names of the
notes and the rest of my limited musical knowledge but I bit my tongue
because I was afraid Id ruin her fun and I was enjoying watching her
enjoying playing a song for me.
So Im just wondering at what point if ever do you offer information
about whatever subject they are currently interested in?
Ren Allen
"So Im just wondering at what point if ever do you offer information
about whatever subject they are currently interested in?"
I think after unschooling for a while, it just feels natural and you
recognize your child's cues quickly. When starting out, maybe just
ask "would you like me to show you_______?" and see what they say.
Or you could offer up some tidbit of info. and let her decide whether
she wants more or not.
Maybe the fact that you bit your tongue and just let her express her
joy, is a sign that you are recognizing when it's good to just let a
moment flow.:) The goal is enjoyment of the activity, not gathering
up a certain body of knowledge right? If she knows that you have
knowledge in that area, I'll bet she asks you for more information
when she wants it. But yeah, I offer up information on topics at
times.....it all depends.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
about whatever subject they are currently interested in?"
I think after unschooling for a while, it just feels natural and you
recognize your child's cues quickly. When starting out, maybe just
ask "would you like me to show you_______?" and see what they say.
Or you could offer up some tidbit of info. and let her decide whether
she wants more or not.
Maybe the fact that you bit your tongue and just let her express her
joy, is a sign that you are recognizing when it's good to just let a
moment flow.:) The goal is enjoyment of the activity, not gathering
up a certain body of knowledge right? If she knows that you have
knowledge in that area, I'll bet she asks you for more information
when she wants it. But yeah, I offer up information on topics at
times.....it all depends.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Pamela Sorooshian
On Feb 4, 2006, at 9:47 PM, cncnawilloughby wrote:
that SHE got that much figured out, if you try to inject the
information YOU think she needs, it is like telling her you don't
think she could figure out more on her own.
for help, she was showing you what SHE had learned on her own. Don't
undermine that.
I would sometimes say, "Wow. I'm impressed with what you've figured
out. That is very cool. If you ever want me to help you figure out
anything, just let me know." But - now I know even THAT wasn't
necessary - it isn't like my kids wouldn't already know that I'd help
them if they wanted help, right?
I used to ask Roxana, when she was as young as 6 or 7, if she wanted
piano lessons. She was happily learning to play, on her own, by
figuring things out for herself, over a period of years. Once she
looked oddly at me and said, "Okay Mom do you think I don't KNOW that
there are such things as piano lessons? I will let you know if I ever
want to take lessons, okay?" As a college student she signed up for
a couple of semesters of piano class - filled in a bunch of little
things she hadn't ever learned on her own, had fun. She's not a great
piano player, but she's very comfortable with music. She's a singer
and actress - just got a big part in the college musical. All those
years of fooling around with the piano make her an unusually good
sight reader which means she auditions really well - when they hand
her new music to learn in a few minutes, she's fine with that.
-pam
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Good choice. Let her be happy with what she's figured out AND note
> I had this really bad urge to start teaching her about names of the
> notes and the rest of my limited musical knowledge but I bit my tongue
> because I was afraid Id ruin her fun and I was enjoying watching her
> enjoying playing a song for me.
that SHE got that much figured out, if you try to inject the
information YOU think she needs, it is like telling her you don't
think she could figure out more on her own.
>At what point? When they ask you - doesn't sound like she was asking
> So Im just wondering at what point if ever do you offer information
> about whatever subject they are currently interested in?
for help, she was showing you what SHE had learned on her own. Don't
undermine that.
I would sometimes say, "Wow. I'm impressed with what you've figured
out. That is very cool. If you ever want me to help you figure out
anything, just let me know." But - now I know even THAT wasn't
necessary - it isn't like my kids wouldn't already know that I'd help
them if they wanted help, right?
I used to ask Roxana, when she was as young as 6 or 7, if she wanted
piano lessons. She was happily learning to play, on her own, by
figuring things out for herself, over a period of years. Once she
looked oddly at me and said, "Okay Mom do you think I don't KNOW that
there are such things as piano lessons? I will let you know if I ever
want to take lessons, okay?" As a college student she signed up for
a couple of semesters of piano class - filled in a bunch of little
things she hadn't ever learned on her own, had fun. She's not a great
piano player, but she's very comfortable with music. She's a singer
and actress - just got a big part in the college musical. All those
years of fooling around with the piano make her an unusually good
sight reader which means she auditions really well - when they hand
her new music to learn in a few minutes, she's fine with that.
-pam
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
S Drag-teine
" Maybe the fact that you bit your tongue and just let her express her
joy, is a sign that you are recognizing when it's good to just let a
moment flow "
Well said! I go to a two week medieval event. It is like camping with 10,000
of your closest friends. One of our bards had his guitar lying on the ground
and a four year old crept up to it and was gently playing at the strings and
did so with a neat little tune.
A few minutes later when his mother discovered him playing tried to teach
him at which he got bored and walked away. The bard told me that was the day
he learn to never interfere with someone else's learning process.
May I ask what she was exposed to that led her to the interest of writing
music?
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too.
Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact me
directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 11:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Knowing when to offer info and when to bite
your tongue
"So Im just wondering at what point if ever do you offer information
about whatever subject they are currently interested in?"
I think after unschooling for a while, it just feels natural and you
recognize your child's cues quickly. When starting out, maybe just
ask "would you like me to show you_______?" and see what they say.
Or you could offer up some tidbit of info. and let her decide whether
she wants more or not.
Maybe the fact that you bit your tongue and just let her express her
joy, is a sign that you are recognizing when it's good to just let a
moment flow.:) The goal is enjoyment of the activity, not gathering
up a certain body of knowledge right? If she knows that you have
knowledge in that area, I'll bet she asks you for more information
when she wants it. But yeah, I offer up information on topics at
times.....it all depends.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
joy, is a sign that you are recognizing when it's good to just let a
moment flow "
Well said! I go to a two week medieval event. It is like camping with 10,000
of your closest friends. One of our bards had his guitar lying on the ground
and a four year old crept up to it and was gently playing at the strings and
did so with a neat little tune.
A few minutes later when his mother discovered him playing tried to teach
him at which he got bored and walked away. The bard told me that was the day
he learn to never interfere with someone else's learning process.
May I ask what she was exposed to that led her to the interest of writing
music?
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too.
Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact me
directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 11:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Knowing when to offer info and when to bite
your tongue
"So Im just wondering at what point if ever do you offer information
about whatever subject they are currently interested in?"
I think after unschooling for a while, it just feels natural and you
recognize your child's cues quickly. When starting out, maybe just
ask "would you like me to show you_______?" and see what they say.
Or you could offer up some tidbit of info. and let her decide whether
she wants more or not.
Maybe the fact that you bit your tongue and just let her express her
joy, is a sign that you are recognizing when it's good to just let a
moment flow.:) The goal is enjoyment of the activity, not gathering
up a certain body of knowledge right? If she knows that you have
knowledge in that area, I'll bet she asks you for more information
when she wants it. But yeah, I offer up information on topics at
times.....it all depends.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Nicole Willoughby
May I ask what she was exposed to that led her to the interest of writing
music?
Since they could pick something up my kiddos have had access to various instruments..........keyboard, kid size guitar, lap harp, xylophone, toy maracas, toy drum , plastic bowls, spoons etc.
She has this v-smile game she hasnt touched in months but one part she used to play a lot would play a song and light up the notes and their letter names as it played the song.
I asked her and she said well I just saw some music notes hanging up at music class so I thought Id write a pretty song myself. Did your music teacher show you the music notes and teach you about them ? ....."No they are just hanging up in the classroom"
Heh forgive me for writing a book here but this makes me think of courtney's last report card. Right after one of my weekly lunches with Courtney her teacher sort of apologizes and says that she cant give Court a "perfect" report card because she refused to learn her address ( she informed her teacher that she didnt care about it )
I found that humorous and told dh about it saying wonder why she told Mrs J that?
He ( ironicly the one who isnt sure about completely unschooling) said well she just dosent have a use for it yet. Sure enough about 2 weeks later the church bus was going to take her home . She asked me to write her address down for her so I did and told her what her address is . She has known her address ever since.
Nicole
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music?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ya know Im not completely sure. She is in school ( kindergarten her request....though prob from a very persuasive neighbor) and they do have "music class" once a week. I dont know how much if any written music they actually see there ...I know they sing songs and sometimes play rythm instruments.
Since they could pick something up my kiddos have had access to various instruments..........keyboard, kid size guitar, lap harp, xylophone, toy maracas, toy drum , plastic bowls, spoons etc.
She has this v-smile game she hasnt touched in months but one part she used to play a lot would play a song and light up the notes and their letter names as it played the song.
I asked her and she said well I just saw some music notes hanging up at music class so I thought Id write a pretty song myself. Did your music teacher show you the music notes and teach you about them ? ....."No they are just hanging up in the classroom"
Heh forgive me for writing a book here but this makes me think of courtney's last report card. Right after one of my weekly lunches with Courtney her teacher sort of apologizes and says that she cant give Court a "perfect" report card because she refused to learn her address ( she informed her teacher that she didnt care about it )
I found that humorous and told dh about it saying wonder why she told Mrs J that?
He ( ironicly the one who isnt sure about completely unschooling) said well she just dosent have a use for it yet. Sure enough about 2 weeks later the church bus was going to take her home . She asked me to write her address down for her so I did and told her what her address is . She has known her address ever since.
Nicole
---------------------------------
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dprater
> I had this really bad urge to start teaching her about names of theWhen I was growing up I had an interest in guitar playing. I had a
> notes and the rest of my limited musical knowledge but I bit my tongue
> because I was afraid Id ruin her fun and I was enjoying watching her
> enjoying playing a song for me.
beginner's guitar to plunk around on. My folks told me that if I would
take lessons they would get me a "real" guitar. They *never* [that I
can recall] ever criticized my music in any way but I didn't want to
take lessons, all I wanted to do was "plunk around" on the thing. It
was an escape for me...something that I could do for self enjoyment in
my own private space.
My Mother told me YEARS later that she and my dad so enjoyed listening
to me play the guitar [while I was in my bedroom with the door closed]
but they didn't dare say anything to me about it. Unbeknownced to me
then, they would sit in the living room in complete silence just
listening to me play. If someone did say something to me about my music
I would inadvertently put the guitar away and not touch it for weeks! I
told my Mother that I didn't think my actions [reactions?] were
intentional, merely something unconscious that I did. Really I don't
remember doing such things. LOL I think I may have felt infringed
upon. My music was for ME. If anyone [my parents] said anything about
my music I felt that they had infringed into "my space".
After having my own child I can understand the enjoyment my folks had
while listening to *my* music. My son can not hold a tune to save his
life but when he sings it's the best thing I have ever heard!! I know
that if my son is singing he is *happy* and I wouldn't trade any of
those sour notes for anything in the world! Instead of cringing to the
sour notes I relish the moments. :-) I have not tried to "help" him
in any way. His singing is pure expression of what he feels inside,
something I wouldn't jeopardize.
I guess what I am trying to say, just enjoy your daughter's exploration
of music, afterall she is including *you* into it! :-) [something I
didn't do with my parents]
Sincerely,
Diana
Nicole Willoughby
I guess what I am trying to say, just enjoy your daughter's exploration
of music, afterall she is including *you* into it! :-) [something I
didn't do with my parents]
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of music, afterall she is including *you* into it! :-) [something I
didn't do with my parents]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks Diana!
---------------------------------
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Nicole Willoughby
She's a singer and actress - just got a big part in the college musical. All those years of fooling around with the piano make her an unusually good sight reader which means she auditions really well - when they hand her new music to learn in a few minutes, she's fine with that.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
First congats to her!
Second .....I wont lie I am somewhat worried about Courtney learning to read. She turns 7 in July and seems to have no intrest at all. But I often wonder if kids who learn to read later because they were not pushed ( I know there are a few out there who just pick it up at 3-4 yrs) have an advantage in the long run?
My mom started teaching me to read at 3 and by 4 I was reading pretty well then went on to k , etc where of course reading was pushed a lot! Now I feel like Im dependant on the written word. Courtney can repeat back a long series of keys played on the keyboard, repeat back a story no problem and often, spit out info about stuff she asked Daddy about months ago. I cant even remember someone name unless I write it down!
Maybe its simply our different styles of thinking and learning but I do still wonder if reading later is going to end up being an advantage to her.
Just my random thought for the day :),
Nicole
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First congats to her!
Second .....I wont lie I am somewhat worried about Courtney learning to read. She turns 7 in July and seems to have no intrest at all. But I often wonder if kids who learn to read later because they were not pushed ( I know there are a few out there who just pick it up at 3-4 yrs) have an advantage in the long run?
My mom started teaching me to read at 3 and by 4 I was reading pretty well then went on to k , etc where of course reading was pushed a lot! Now I feel like Im dependant on the written word. Courtney can repeat back a long series of keys played on the keyboard, repeat back a story no problem and often, spit out info about stuff she asked Daddy about months ago. I cant even remember someone name unless I write it down!
Maybe its simply our different styles of thinking and learning but I do still wonder if reading later is going to end up being an advantage to her.
Just my random thought for the day :),
Nicole
---------------------------------
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Pamela Sorooshian
On Feb 7, 2006, at 7:04 AM, Nicole Willoughby wrote:
Fluently. With expression!
One didn't learn to read at all until she was pushing 8 years old.
At 15 and 18, they read equally well and enjoy a lot of the same
books. Roxana (the earlier reader) is a bit more extensively hooked
into the world of literature - Rosie is more physical - plays soccer,
does karate, has been playing Dance Dance Revolution for the past
half hour. But, on the other hand, recently she made a list of what
she considers "don't miss" books - for her friends. And she thinks
she might want to be a librarian - she has worked for an hour a week
in the public library for over a year.
I wouldn't say that those who read earlier have an advantage - but
they might turn out to be kids who are always really really into
reading. I mean kids who ON THEIR OWN read early, of course, not
those forced to learn before they'd have naturally wanted to. This is
no different than other things kids show an early interest in - my
nephew showed an early interest in ball games - any kind of ball
games - he just wanted to kick and throw balls for hours - since
before he could walk. So - he's 12 and still really loves to play ball.
Kids who read later might have some advantages, too, though. I have
observed that they often develop their other learning modes more than
other kids who read earlier, especially those who were schooled/
taught/coerced into learning to read early. I know a kid who didn't
read until 12/13 or so - but his ability to listen to verbal
information, sort it out, keep it in his mind, etc., is truly
remarkable.
NOT that college success is the way to measure the value of
everything - but it might be useful to think about college and what
is really useful there. I mean, what do most college classes
involve? Listening to lectures. Good setup for the kid who has great
listening skills!
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Second .....I wont lie I am somewhat worried about CourtneyOne of mine learned to read, all on her own, at 3 years old.
> learning to read. She turns 7 in July and seems to have no intrest
> at all. But I often wonder if kids who learn to read later because
> they were not pushed ( I know there are a few out there who just
> pick it up at 3-4 yrs) have an advantage in the long run?
Fluently. With expression!
One didn't learn to read at all until she was pushing 8 years old.
At 15 and 18, they read equally well and enjoy a lot of the same
books. Roxana (the earlier reader) is a bit more extensively hooked
into the world of literature - Rosie is more physical - plays soccer,
does karate, has been playing Dance Dance Revolution for the past
half hour. But, on the other hand, recently she made a list of what
she considers "don't miss" books - for her friends. And she thinks
she might want to be a librarian - she has worked for an hour a week
in the public library for over a year.
I wouldn't say that those who read earlier have an advantage - but
they might turn out to be kids who are always really really into
reading. I mean kids who ON THEIR OWN read early, of course, not
those forced to learn before they'd have naturally wanted to. This is
no different than other things kids show an early interest in - my
nephew showed an early interest in ball games - any kind of ball
games - he just wanted to kick and throw balls for hours - since
before he could walk. So - he's 12 and still really loves to play ball.
Kids who read later might have some advantages, too, though. I have
observed that they often develop their other learning modes more than
other kids who read earlier, especially those who were schooled/
taught/coerced into learning to read early. I know a kid who didn't
read until 12/13 or so - but his ability to listen to verbal
information, sort it out, keep it in his mind, etc., is truly
remarkable.
NOT that college success is the way to measure the value of
everything - but it might be useful to think about college and what
is really useful there. I mean, what do most college classes
involve? Listening to lectures. Good setup for the kid who has great
listening skills!
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/7/2006 9:59:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
My Mother told me YEARS later that she and my dad so enjoyed listening
to me play the guitar [while I was in my bedroom with the door closed]
but they didn't dare say anything to me about it. Unbeknownced to me
then, they would sit in the living room in complete silence just
listening to me play. If someone did say something to me about my music
I would inadvertently put the guitar away and not touch it for weeks! I
told my Mother that I didn't think my actions [reactions?] were
intentional, merely something unconscious that I did. Really I don't
remember doing such things. LOL I think I may have felt infringed
upon. My music was for ME. If anyone [my parents] said anything about
my music I felt that they had infringed into "my space".
*************************
This made me think of all the things that my parents did that actually led
me to unschooling, in a way, despite never, ever having homeschooling, much
less unschooling, occur to them.
It's cool that they got that you needed NOT to have it acknowledged, but
still took such joy from it. Even if you didn't know at the time, I bet it felt
wonderful and close to have your mom share that with you.
My parents treated me and my sister very differently, it seemed, than most
of our friends treated them. My parent led interesting lives, and we were
always welcome along. They had fascinating friends who would come to the house,
and we were never excluded from conversations or sent off "to play." I remember
one evening (I was about 10 or 11) they had a couple over, and about 11 PM
they all decided it would be fun to drive from our home in upstate NY to
Montreal, about three and a half hours, for breakfast. We all plopped into the
station wagon and headed up. It was an adventure.
Kathryn
Come to the Northeast Unschooling Conference, Memorial Day Weekend, May
26-28, 2006 in Peabody, Massachusetts! www.NortheastUnschoolingConference.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
My Mother told me YEARS later that she and my dad so enjoyed listening
to me play the guitar [while I was in my bedroom with the door closed]
but they didn't dare say anything to me about it. Unbeknownced to me
then, they would sit in the living room in complete silence just
listening to me play. If someone did say something to me about my music
I would inadvertently put the guitar away and not touch it for weeks! I
told my Mother that I didn't think my actions [reactions?] were
intentional, merely something unconscious that I did. Really I don't
remember doing such things. LOL I think I may have felt infringed
upon. My music was for ME. If anyone [my parents] said anything about
my music I felt that they had infringed into "my space".
*************************
This made me think of all the things that my parents did that actually led
me to unschooling, in a way, despite never, ever having homeschooling, much
less unschooling, occur to them.
It's cool that they got that you needed NOT to have it acknowledged, but
still took such joy from it. Even if you didn't know at the time, I bet it felt
wonderful and close to have your mom share that with you.
My parents treated me and my sister very differently, it seemed, than most
of our friends treated them. My parent led interesting lives, and we were
always welcome along. They had fascinating friends who would come to the house,
and we were never excluded from conversations or sent off "to play." I remember
one evening (I was about 10 or 11) they had a couple over, and about 11 PM
they all decided it would be fun to drive from our home in upstate NY to
Montreal, about three and a half hours, for breakfast. We all plopped into the
station wagon and headed up. It was an adventure.
Kathryn
Come to the Northeast Unschooling Conference, Memorial Day Weekend, May
26-28, 2006 in Peabody, Massachusetts! www.NortheastUnschoolingConference.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]