More questions
Ren Allen
"1) what do I do since my son is very into guns...well, pretty much
anything to do with violence but I am very against violence?"
You're against violence. He's not committing violence is he?
Is he actually harming himself or another human being if he plays with
guns? No.
You're against harming another individual, that's very different than
acting it out.
Boys (lots of kids of both genders actually) are naturally very
fascinated with guns/weapons/swords etc...
The more you fuss about it, the more he'll try to hide it from you.
The most important principle in my life, is that my children are
whole, perfect and trustworthy. All other principles pale in comparison.
I'm a vegetarian (not strict, but I don't know a better term, so I'm
using "vegetarian" because I don't eat meat) but some of my children
are not. I am vegetarian for ethical and health reasons. Ethical mainly.
Should my children get a dose of MY ethics everytime they want meat?
Hell no.
They'd just learn to not trust me. I trust they will make different
decisions for themselves, only THEY know the best path for their own life.
I think guns are great fun...my kids love paintball and airsoft gun
play, violent video games and such. And guess what? They are some of
the most peace-loving, non-violent people you could ever meet. Truly.
They absolutely CRINGE when they see people hit each other. Trevor has
attended peace rallies to protest the war in Iraq. My children don't
want anything to do with REAL violence. Play is play. We don't need to
turn it into some ground for our "beliefs" or "ethics" unless they
really are going to harm themselves or someone else.
Heck, then I get downright coercive!!;)
Back to square one....TRUST.
Trust him, trust that he needs to explore this right now...go buy him
some really cool play guns and swords and battle with him. Hide around
the house and shoot each other, it's great fun. I had a marvelous
battle with Jalen using broken "hookers" (hangers) the other night.
They were bows and we used invisible arrows for them and shot each
other...he won every time darnit! I can die really dramatically now.;)
Buy some big water guns this summer and have battles with those,
explore his interest WITH him. Trevor has learned all about several
wars, other languages, history etc... because of his fascination with
weapons. I could lliterally write a book about both my older boys
discoveries that connected to weapons. It's really cool stuff.
We have great philosophical discussions about all the ways human
beings have tried to create harm and kill. You'd be amazed at their
knowledge (I certainly am!!).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
anything to do with violence but I am very against violence?"
You're against violence. He's not committing violence is he?
Is he actually harming himself or another human being if he plays with
guns? No.
You're against harming another individual, that's very different than
acting it out.
Boys (lots of kids of both genders actually) are naturally very
fascinated with guns/weapons/swords etc...
The more you fuss about it, the more he'll try to hide it from you.
The most important principle in my life, is that my children are
whole, perfect and trustworthy. All other principles pale in comparison.
I'm a vegetarian (not strict, but I don't know a better term, so I'm
using "vegetarian" because I don't eat meat) but some of my children
are not. I am vegetarian for ethical and health reasons. Ethical mainly.
Should my children get a dose of MY ethics everytime they want meat?
Hell no.
They'd just learn to not trust me. I trust they will make different
decisions for themselves, only THEY know the best path for their own life.
I think guns are great fun...my kids love paintball and airsoft gun
play, violent video games and such. And guess what? They are some of
the most peace-loving, non-violent people you could ever meet. Truly.
They absolutely CRINGE when they see people hit each other. Trevor has
attended peace rallies to protest the war in Iraq. My children don't
want anything to do with REAL violence. Play is play. We don't need to
turn it into some ground for our "beliefs" or "ethics" unless they
really are going to harm themselves or someone else.
Heck, then I get downright coercive!!;)
Back to square one....TRUST.
Trust him, trust that he needs to explore this right now...go buy him
some really cool play guns and swords and battle with him. Hide around
the house and shoot each other, it's great fun. I had a marvelous
battle with Jalen using broken "hookers" (hangers) the other night.
They were bows and we used invisible arrows for them and shot each
other...he won every time darnit! I can die really dramatically now.;)
Buy some big water guns this summer and have battles with those,
explore his interest WITH him. Trevor has learned all about several
wars, other languages, history etc... because of his fascination with
weapons. I could lliterally write a book about both my older boys
discoveries that connected to weapons. It's really cool stuff.
We have great philosophical discussions about all the ways human
beings have tried to create harm and kill. You'd be amazed at their
knowledge (I certainly am!!).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Mother Earth (Tyra)
I am glad that the OP asked this questions. I have been wondering the same thing in the last few weeks. When we go to the store, I never fuss about him looking at guns. I buy shooters but I have read that toy guns and violent games promote violence in children. But of course with my new unschooling philosophy, I have been wondering if my saying no to toy guns is really okay with me. I do like that you said that your son has branched off with learning through weapons. Honestly, I want my children to know how to handle weapons so that they if they do find a real weapon, then they would know how to handle it safely. Now that I think about it, it is not the weapon that is bad, it is how it is used that makes all the difference. Yet, again, I am enlightened.
Peace
Tyra
Peace
Tyra
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:55 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] More questions
Trevor has learned all about several
wars, other languages, history etc... because of his fascination with
weapons. I could lliterally write a book about both my older boys
discoveries that connected to weapons. It's really cool stuff.
We have great philosophical discussions about all the ways human
beings have tried to create harm and kill. You'd be amazed at their
knowledge (I certainly am!!).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 21, 2006, at 12:22 PM, Mother Earth ((Tyra)) wrote:
I liked Man From U.N.C.L.E. when I was a kid. I had the gun. (Still
have it in fact on the shelf behind me ;-) But I've never shot anyone
with a real gun. In fact I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and could
beat people up. But I have no desire to.
I think what is more likely true is that kids who are prone to
violence are drawn to guns and violent games rather than the other
way around. Kids who don't have loving homes, who are angry with the
world want to feel powerful. Games and pretend violence can fill that
need -- until the need grows beyond pretend.
What peaceful, gun-avoiding people perhaps have a problem with is
understanding why peaceful people would want anything to do with
guns. I think that like a lot of escapism, it's about exploring
something you wouldn't want to do in real life. Though we haven't
played it in a long time, my daughter and I like Godzilla: Destroy
All Monsters. It's fun to step on buildings and blast monsters and
level cities knowing that they'll all be back together the next time
you play. I honestly don't like to destroy things in real life. Not
even things I'm throwing away ;-) And yet the story I wrote for the
National Novel Writing Month is chock full of demon body parts flying
all over the place. I even electrocuted a couple of humans. But I
have no desire to do any of that in real life.
Someone who's read a little psychology might think it's repressed
desire. But it's not at all repressed. It's getting a healthy release
in fantasy and pretend. I do I think it's a big mistake when parents
prevent that fantasy exploration because they are preventing a
perfectly harmless outlet.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I buy shooters but I have read that toy guns and violent gamesIt makes sense. But is it true?
> promote violence in children
I liked Man From U.N.C.L.E. when I was a kid. I had the gun. (Still
have it in fact on the shelf behind me ;-) But I've never shot anyone
with a real gun. In fact I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and could
beat people up. But I have no desire to.
I think what is more likely true is that kids who are prone to
violence are drawn to guns and violent games rather than the other
way around. Kids who don't have loving homes, who are angry with the
world want to feel powerful. Games and pretend violence can fill that
need -- until the need grows beyond pretend.
What peaceful, gun-avoiding people perhaps have a problem with is
understanding why peaceful people would want anything to do with
guns. I think that like a lot of escapism, it's about exploring
something you wouldn't want to do in real life. Though we haven't
played it in a long time, my daughter and I like Godzilla: Destroy
All Monsters. It's fun to step on buildings and blast monsters and
level cities knowing that they'll all be back together the next time
you play. I honestly don't like to destroy things in real life. Not
even things I'm throwing away ;-) And yet the story I wrote for the
National Novel Writing Month is chock full of demon body parts flying
all over the place. I even electrocuted a couple of humans. But I
have no desire to do any of that in real life.
Someone who's read a little psychology might think it's repressed
desire. But it's not at all repressed. It's getting a healthy release
in fantasy and pretend. I do I think it's a big mistake when parents
prevent that fantasy exploration because they are preventing a
perfectly harmless outlet.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sam
I love the comments about learning that diverged from an original
interest in guns. I don't have the same concerns as some concerning
violence and/or guns/weapons. I grew up knowing about guns and have
shot before. I have played lots of fairly violent video games, have
enjoyed lots of violent movies and tv shows.
One of my favorite books, The Three Musketeers can be seen as fairly
violent, and the attitudes toward the violence seems rather blase
sometimes, fighting at the very assumption of honor besmirched.
We bought Medal of Honor: Rising Sun and had a blast. The game starts
your character on board a ship in Pearl Harbor, waking up to the sound
of bombs landing. The game then dramatizes parts of the Allied fight
throughout the Pacific theater. In the games "pause" menu, you can
actually choose an option that gives a small piece of historical
information based on the particular location, e.g. Guadalcanal or the
Philipines.
From this, my 7yo developed a short interest in WWII, Pearl Harbor and
ess is that we, as unschoolers, never know what's coming next. As
long the weapons of the period. His current interests have moved in
other directions, but it's still something he now knows about and an
interest he and I share and will share, even if we don't really
revisit it for a while. I ended up getting some info for myself,
reading Citizen Soldiers, a really interesting book by David McCullough.
interest in guns. I don't have the same concerns as some concerning
violence and/or guns/weapons. I grew up knowing about guns and have
shot before. I have played lots of fairly violent video games, have
enjoyed lots of violent movies and tv shows.
One of my favorite books, The Three Musketeers can be seen as fairly
violent, and the attitudes toward the violence seems rather blase
sometimes, fighting at the very assumption of honor besmirched.
We bought Medal of Honor: Rising Sun and had a blast. The game starts
your character on board a ship in Pearl Harbor, waking up to the sound
of bombs landing. The game then dramatizes parts of the Allied fight
throughout the Pacific theater. In the games "pause" menu, you can
actually choose an option that gives a small piece of historical
information based on the particular location, e.g. Guadalcanal or the
Philipines.
From this, my 7yo developed a short interest in WWII, Pearl Harbor and
ess is that we, as unschoolers, never know what's coming next. As
long the weapons of the period. His current interests have moved in
other directions, but it's still something he now knows about and an
interest he and I share and will share, even if we don't really
revisit it for a while. I ended up getting some info for myself,
reading Citizen Soldiers, a really interesting book by David McCullough.
S Drag-teine
"It makes sense. But is it true?"
No, I don't think it is... if you are taught about something and learn the
right way to treat something from sleep and food to guns and alcohol... the
mysticism disappears and the excitement with it. My family has alcoholism in
their background and while my mother allowed us to try this or have a sip of
that - taking away the need to sneak and over indulge; she also taught us
about our family background and what to watch out for and that there was
help if you needed it.
My DH is a "good" boy - a healthy respect for authority. However, he loves
playing the "bad guy" on PC and video games - he would never even dream of
ever doing what he plays. Even my five year old says the same in his own
words though he will occasionally change his mind about being a "bad guy"
even playing Rampage and decide he wants to be a "good guy" and beat me and
his father up instead.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too.
Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact me
directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joyce Fetteroll
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] More questions
No, I don't think it is... if you are taught about something and learn the
right way to treat something from sleep and food to guns and alcohol... the
mysticism disappears and the excitement with it. My family has alcoholism in
their background and while my mother allowed us to try this or have a sip of
that - taking away the need to sneak and over indulge; she also taught us
about our family background and what to watch out for and that there was
help if you needed it.
My DH is a "good" boy - a healthy respect for authority. However, he loves
playing the "bad guy" on PC and video games - he would never even dream of
ever doing what he plays. Even my five year old says the same in his own
words though he will occasionally change his mind about being a "bad guy"
even playing Rampage and decide he wants to be a "good guy" and beat me and
his father up instead.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too.
Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact me
directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joyce Fetteroll
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] More questions
On Jan 21, 2006, at 12:22 PM, Mother Earth ((Tyra)) wrote:
> I buy shooters but I have read that toy guns and violent games
> promote violence in children
It makes sense. But is it true?
I liked Man From U.N.C.L.E. when I was a kid. I had the gun. (Still
have it in fact on the shelf behind me ;-) But I've never shot anyone
with a real gun. In fact I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and could
beat people up. But I have no desire to.
I think what is more likely true is that kids who are prone to
violence are drawn to guns and violent games rather than the other
way around. Kids who don't have loving homes, who are angry with the
world want to feel powerful. Games and pretend violence can fill that
need -- until the need grows beyond pretend.
What peaceful, gun-avoiding people perhaps have a problem with is
understanding why peaceful people would want anything to do with
guns. I think that like a lot of escapism, it's about exploring
something you wouldn't want to do in real life. Though we haven't
played it in a long time, my daughter and I like Godzilla: Destroy
All Monsters. It's fun to step on buildings and blast monsters and
level cities knowing that they'll all be back together the next time
you play. I honestly don't like to destroy things in real life. Not
even things I'm throwing away ;-) And yet the story I wrote for the
National Novel Writing Month is chock full of demon body parts flying
all over the place. I even electrocuted a couple of humans. But I
have no desire to do any of that in real life.
Someone who's read a little psychology might think it's repressed
desire. But it's not at all repressed. It's getting a healthy release
in fantasy and pretend. I do I think it's a big mistake when parents
prevent that fantasy exploration because they are preventing a
perfectly harmless outlet.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
I don't know who the original author of the issue that Ren was answering
here but I wanted to chime in. I saw a documentary on PBS about a week ago
that touches on this issue... I really think you need to look into finding
it and watching it. It's called Raising Cain. I don't have any boys but it
gave me great insights into boys and since I have a husband and friends with
boys and someday my daughter will have boyfriends and a husband, I was very
interested in it.
Please take the time to check out this resource.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Ren Allen
Date: 01/20/06 23:56:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] More questions
"1) what do I do since my son is very into guns...well, pretty much
anything to do with violence but I am very against violence?"
You're against violence. He's not committing violence is he?
Is he actually harming himself or another human being if he plays with
guns? No.
You're against harming another individual, that's very different than
acting it out.
Boys (lots of kids of both genders actually) are naturally very
fascinated with guns/weapons/swords etc...
The more you fuss about it, the more he'll try to hide it from you.
The most important principle in my life, is that my children are
whole, perfect and trustworthy. All other principles pale in comparison.
I'm a vegetarian (not strict, but I don't know a better term, so I'm
using "vegetarian" because I don't eat meat) but some of my children
are not. I am vegetarian for ethical and health reasons. Ethical mainly.
Should my children get a dose of MY ethics everytime they want meat?
Hell no.
They'd just learn to not trust me. I trust they will make different
decisions for themselves, only THEY know the best path for their own life.
I think guns are great fun...my kids love paintball and airsoft gun
play, violent video games and such. And guess what? They are some of
the most peace-loving, non-violent people you could ever meet. Truly.
They absolutely CRINGE when they see people hit each other. Trevor has
attended peace rallies to protest the war in Iraq. My children don't
want anything to do with REAL violence. Play is play. We don't need to
turn it into some ground for our "beliefs" or "ethics" unless they
really are going to harm themselves or someone else.
Heck, then I get downright coercive!!;)
Back to square one....TRUST.
Trust him, trust that he needs to explore this right now...go buy him
some really cool play guns and swords and battle with him. Hide around
the house and shoot each other, it's great fun. I had a marvelous
battle with Jalen using broken "hookers" (hangers) the other night.
They were bows and we used invisible arrows for them and shot each
other...he won every time darnit! I can die really dramatically now.;)
Buy some big water guns this summer and have battles with those,
explore his interest WITH him. Trevor has learned all about several
wars, other languages, history etc... because of his fascination with
weapons. I could lliterally write a book about both my older boys
discoveries that connected to weapons. It's really cool stuff.
We have great philosophical discussions about all the ways human
beings have tried to create harm and kill. You'd be amazed at their
knowledge (I certainly am!!).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
here but I wanted to chime in. I saw a documentary on PBS about a week ago
that touches on this issue... I really think you need to look into finding
it and watching it. It's called Raising Cain. I don't have any boys but it
gave me great insights into boys and since I have a husband and friends with
boys and someday my daughter will have boyfriends and a husband, I was very
interested in it.
Please take the time to check out this resource.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Ren Allen
Date: 01/20/06 23:56:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] More questions
"1) what do I do since my son is very into guns...well, pretty much
anything to do with violence but I am very against violence?"
You're against violence. He's not committing violence is he?
Is he actually harming himself or another human being if he plays with
guns? No.
You're against harming another individual, that's very different than
acting it out.
Boys (lots of kids of both genders actually) are naturally very
fascinated with guns/weapons/swords etc...
The more you fuss about it, the more he'll try to hide it from you.
The most important principle in my life, is that my children are
whole, perfect and trustworthy. All other principles pale in comparison.
I'm a vegetarian (not strict, but I don't know a better term, so I'm
using "vegetarian" because I don't eat meat) but some of my children
are not. I am vegetarian for ethical and health reasons. Ethical mainly.
Should my children get a dose of MY ethics everytime they want meat?
Hell no.
They'd just learn to not trust me. I trust they will make different
decisions for themselves, only THEY know the best path for their own life.
I think guns are great fun...my kids love paintball and airsoft gun
play, violent video games and such. And guess what? They are some of
the most peace-loving, non-violent people you could ever meet. Truly.
They absolutely CRINGE when they see people hit each other. Trevor has
attended peace rallies to protest the war in Iraq. My children don't
want anything to do with REAL violence. Play is play. We don't need to
turn it into some ground for our "beliefs" or "ethics" unless they
really are going to harm themselves or someone else.
Heck, then I get downright coercive!!;)
Back to square one....TRUST.
Trust him, trust that he needs to explore this right now...go buy him
some really cool play guns and swords and battle with him. Hide around
the house and shoot each other, it's great fun. I had a marvelous
battle with Jalen using broken "hookers" (hangers) the other night.
They were bows and we used invisible arrows for them and shot each
other...he won every time darnit! I can die really dramatically now.;)
Buy some big water guns this summer and have battles with those,
explore his interest WITH him. Trevor has learned all about several
wars, other languages, history etc... because of his fascination with
weapons. I could lliterally write a book about both my older boys
discoveries that connected to weapons. It's really cool stuff.
We have great philosophical discussions about all the ways human
beings have tried to create harm and kill. You'd be amazed at their
knowledge (I certainly am!!).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
SPONSORED LINKS Secondary school education Graduate school education Home
school education
Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school
education
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]