Question about TV
ideydidey
HI all,
I am new here, but I see that TV is a big part of a lot of people's
lives. I have always thought that watching TV all day fell in the same
category as eating chocolate or ice cream all day, something that even
as an unschooler I wouldn't allow - I still feel that I need to help
my child develop healthfully. So am I totally off-base on that? Does
anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
Just curious!
Susan
I am new here, but I see that TV is a big part of a lot of people's
lives. I have always thought that watching TV all day fell in the same
category as eating chocolate or ice cream all day, something that even
as an unschooler I wouldn't allow - I still feel that I need to help
my child develop healthfully. So am I totally off-base on that? Does
anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
Just curious!
Susan
Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasairíona of Crea
> DoesI feel like it's more of a drug than dessert, and while I'm not a Nazi
> anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
> particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
about a little sugar or caffeine, I wouldn't sit by and let my children
try cocaine, and I couldn't live with myself as a mother if I allowed a
steady diet of TV. I've heard many people say that if allowed to
self-regulate, kids will tire of it (and decide to choose healthy foods,
and so on...). And maybe some kids do. But mine have had lots and lots
of time to cut back on that kind of thing, and they just can't do it
themselves. If anything, they've become even more addicted. What I've
noticed about this that is unacceptable to me is twofold:
1) I find that they learn what our society considers 'normal', and how
you are supposed to behave in it. Not in an objective way, but much the
same way they would learn it if they were peer-socialized in a public
school. Not good. A lot like being brainwashed.
2) I also find that there is a direct relationship between how much TV
they watch and how rudely, impatiently, and disrespectfully they
interact with other people. They're great kids, but when they watch too
much TV, they're just plain mean.
I figure that if humans didn't require extended parenting, we would
mature in far fewer years and be capable of caring for ourselves. In all
things, moderation...
Blessings,
Breezy
[email protected]
Nobody is advocating being a "hands off" parent. But it is good to really take a long, hard look at beliefs and see if they are based in reality.
A schooled kid sits at a desk for 7 hours per day and then comes home and watches 3 hours of tv and does 2 hours of homework. That is 12 hours of sedentary activity.
An unschooled kid watches tv for 5 hours....that is only 5 hours.
Many kids do binge on tv when they are first given control of it. It is a novelty and from their standpoint, they are concerned it may be temporary. Eventually, they will have seen most of what is on and self-limit to a few shows they actually enjoy.
If I did have a kid that was watching many hours of tv after the initial binge, I would perhaps worry that she was bored or depressed. I would offer fun things to do, like the zoo or the beach. I would see if she were interested in 4-H, pottery, raising bees (just got my hive yesterday, yippee!!). I would do fun and interesting things myself and see if she wanted to come along for the ride.
Julie S.
A schooled kid sits at a desk for 7 hours per day and then comes home and watches 3 hours of tv and does 2 hours of homework. That is 12 hours of sedentary activity.
An unschooled kid watches tv for 5 hours....that is only 5 hours.
Many kids do binge on tv when they are first given control of it. It is a novelty and from their standpoint, they are concerned it may be temporary. Eventually, they will have seen most of what is on and self-limit to a few shows they actually enjoy.
If I did have a kid that was watching many hours of tv after the initial binge, I would perhaps worry that she was bored or depressed. I would offer fun things to do, like the zoo or the beach. I would see if she were interested in 4-H, pottery, raising bees (just got my hive yesterday, yippee!!). I would do fun and interesting things myself and see if she wanted to come along for the ride.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: ideydidey <susanpatton@...>
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:01 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Question about TV
> HI all,
> I am new here, but I see that TV is a big part of a lot of
> people's
> lives. I have always thought that watching TV all day fell in the
> same
> category as eating chocolate or ice cream all day, something that
> even
> as an unschooler I wouldn't allow - I still feel that I need to
> help
> my child develop healthfully. So am I totally off-base on that?
> Does
> anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
> particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
>
> Just curious!
>
> Susan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
camden
"If I did have a kid that was watching many hours of TV after the initial
binge, I would perhaps worry that she was bored or depressed."
Hi Julie,
How long would you say an initial binge would last? I'm not worried about
it, dh on the other hand is.
Thanks
Carol
binge, I would perhaps worry that she was bored or depressed."
Hi Julie,
How long would you say an initial binge would last? I'm not worried about
it, dh on the other hand is.
Thanks
Carol
April Morris
So how do you explain those of us who don't put limits or controls on tv and
dont' have disrespectful, rude, impatient, mean kids? I'm not waiting for
my kids to 'cut back' on tv. They are free to watch as much or as little as
they want. Most of the time I watch more than they do (I like having it on
for background noise).
How do you get from sugar and caffeine to cocain? I do not limit sugar or
caffeine and I have yet to have to decide whether to sit by and let my
children try cocain. There isn't a connection. And even though I don't limit
sugar and caffeine, none of my kids eat them excessivly most of the time. In
fact, they probably eat healthier than the average kid.
It doesn't matter how much or little tv my kids watch, how much or little
sugar, caffeine or anything else they consume. These amounts don't effect
how much parenting my kids get. They get all the parenting I can give them
whatever they are doing, whatever they are interested in, whatever they need
at any given time.
You are not trusting your kids to regulate themselves. You are assuming they
cannot make the choices that are best for them.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 1/18/06, Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasairíona of Creavanore <
redgoddess@...> wrote:
dont' have disrespectful, rude, impatient, mean kids? I'm not waiting for
my kids to 'cut back' on tv. They are free to watch as much or as little as
they want. Most of the time I watch more than they do (I like having it on
for background noise).
How do you get from sugar and caffeine to cocain? I do not limit sugar or
caffeine and I have yet to have to decide whether to sit by and let my
children try cocain. There isn't a connection. And even though I don't limit
sugar and caffeine, none of my kids eat them excessivly most of the time. In
fact, they probably eat healthier than the average kid.
It doesn't matter how much or little tv my kids watch, how much or little
sugar, caffeine or anything else they consume. These amounts don't effect
how much parenting my kids get. They get all the parenting I can give them
whatever they are doing, whatever they are interested in, whatever they need
at any given time.
You are not trusting your kids to regulate themselves. You are assuming they
cannot make the choices that are best for them.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 1/18/06, Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasairíona of Creavanore <
redgoddess@...> wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > Does
> > anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
> > particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
>
> I feel like it's more of a drug than dessert, and while I'm not a Nazi
> about a little sugar or caffeine, I wouldn't sit by and let my children
> try cocaine, and I couldn't live with myself as a mother if I allowed a
> steady diet of TV. I've heard many people say that if allowed to
> self-regulate, kids will tire of it (and decide to choose healthy foods,
> and so on...). And maybe some kids do. But mine have had lots and lots
> of time to cut back on that kind of thing, and they just can't do it
> themselves. If anything, they've become even more addicted. What I've
> noticed about this that is unacceptable to me is twofold:
>
> 1) I find that they learn what our society considers 'normal', and how
> you are supposed to behave in it. Not in an objective way, but much the
> same way they would learn it if they were peer-socialized in a public
> school. Not good. A lot like being brainwashed.
>
> 2) I also find that there is a direct relationship between how much TV
> they watch and how rudely, impatiently, and disrespectfully they
> interact with other people. They're great kids, but when they watch too
> much TV, they're just plain mean.
>
> I figure that if humans didn't require extended parenting, we would
> mature in far fewer years and be capable of caring for ourselves. In all
> things, moderation...
>
> Blessings,
> Breezy
>
>
>
>
> --
>
[email protected]
My daughter was 10 years old and she watched tv pretty much non-stop for 4 months. Now at 15, she has maybe 5 shows a week that she really enjoys, other than that, she doesn't watch it much, the occassional movie.
I admit...it was hard to watch her sit there for those months. I bit my lip many, many times. Finally, she became grumpy and so I would occassionally ask her if she thought that might be do to lack of movement, that she simply wasn't working her body and so it was sluggish. I NEVER villainized the tv.
I do have to say that she learned some things, even while watching fluff tv. She made some comment about Harriett Tubman and I asked her where she had heard of her. Adriane said it was an episode of "Sister, Sister." Those kinds of things....she also learned that tv shows tend to follow the same arc of story line, there is little basis in reality, etc..
Julie S.
I admit...it was hard to watch her sit there for those months. I bit my lip many, many times. Finally, she became grumpy and so I would occassionally ask her if she thought that might be do to lack of movement, that she simply wasn't working her body and so it was sluggish. I NEVER villainized the tv.
I do have to say that she learned some things, even while watching fluff tv. She made some comment about Harriett Tubman and I asked her where she had heard of her. Adriane said it was an episode of "Sister, Sister." Those kinds of things....she also learned that tv shows tend to follow the same arc of story line, there is little basis in reality, etc..
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: camden <ccoutlaw@...>
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Question about TV
> "If I did have a kid that was watching many hours of TV after the
> initial
> binge, I would perhaps worry that she was bored or depressed."
>
> Hi Julie,
> How long would you say an initial binge would last? I'm not
> worried about
> it, dh on the other hand is.
> Thanks
> Carol
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Melissa
Good points on the bored or depressed part...if there aren't things
in the house or neighborhood that are interesting, what's the point
of not choosing?
I would also look and see if the TV watching is actually being
unmoderated, or if the kids feel vilified. Even if they were actually
able to choose how much tv they watched, was it moderated in other
ways (limited to educational or programs that only parents approve
of?) Also, were their choices met with raised eyebrows or scathing
comments? Every time I try to say that they are choosing too much tv,
it's instantly met with the subconscious "Oh no, mommy is going to
turn it off, quick, cram as much in as you can!"
I only ask because I know I made that mistake the first time I tested
their selflimiting. Once I let go and let them watch as much as they
wanted without negative comments, even my four yo stopped it. Even
five hours is only two movies and a tv show....it's really not much
more than what most adults watch when they get home from work.
And tonight watching Madagascar was awesome. I was curious about how
they got by Madagascar when going to Kenya, admitted I had no idea of
where Kenya was (embarrassing, I know) and then I got the globe out
to look it up. The kids were interested too, came over for about 20
seconds, and went back to the movie. But all throughout, they were
making comments that I paid to learn in college about how most of the
animals were lemurs, since it was an island, there wasn't any way for
other animals to move in without a boat, we talked about how
indigenous animals on islands are overrun by introduced species and
compared it to Australia. It was amazing the connect the kids made
while watching this movie.
in the house or neighborhood that are interesting, what's the point
of not choosing?
I would also look and see if the TV watching is actually being
unmoderated, or if the kids feel vilified. Even if they were actually
able to choose how much tv they watched, was it moderated in other
ways (limited to educational or programs that only parents approve
of?) Also, were their choices met with raised eyebrows or scathing
comments? Every time I try to say that they are choosing too much tv,
it's instantly met with the subconscious "Oh no, mommy is going to
turn it off, quick, cram as much in as you can!"
I only ask because I know I made that mistake the first time I tested
their selflimiting. Once I let go and let them watch as much as they
wanted without negative comments, even my four yo stopped it. Even
five hours is only two movies and a tv show....it's really not much
more than what most adults watch when they get home from work.
And tonight watching Madagascar was awesome. I was curious about how
they got by Madagascar when going to Kenya, admitted I had no idea of
where Kenya was (embarrassing, I know) and then I got the globe out
to look it up. The kids were interested too, came over for about 20
seconds, and went back to the movie. But all throughout, they were
making comments that I paid to learn in college about how most of the
animals were lemurs, since it was an island, there wasn't any way for
other animals to move in without a boat, we talked about how
indigenous animals on islands are overrun by introduced species and
compared it to Australia. It was amazing the connect the kids made
while watching this movie.
On Jan 18, 2006, at 8:40 PM, jnjstau@... wrote:
>
> If I did have a kid that was watching many hours of tv after the
> initial binge, I would perhaps worry that she was bored or
> depressed. I would offer fun things to do, like the zoo or the
> beach. I would see if she were interested in 4-H, pottery, raising
> bees (just got my hive yesterday, yippee!!). I would do fun and
> interesting things myself and see if she wanted to come along for
> the ride.
Melissa
Keep the power out of tv by setting a different example yourself. If
they see you in front of it, it becomes natural for them. If they
want to watch tv, fine, but you get up and do stuff. walk around your
backyard, paint a picture, whatever it is you like, show them there
are options. I don't think tv is addictive. I think it seems that way
when people who are stressed all day at work and school come home and
use it to destress. There's a huge difference neurologically between
people who are blanking out in front of the screen and families who
are actively engaged in what they are seeing.
Of course, we also eat dessert before dinner, so take it the way you
want. We've removed the power of sugar in our lives too, by eating it
when we like. No urge to cram it, no urge to hoard it. We eat fresh
fruits and veggies when we like as well. But the kids know what they
really want. Sometimes I offer junk, and they ask for fruit.
Sometimes I say I'm going to watch a movie, and they want to play
outside.
they see you in front of it, it becomes natural for them. If they
want to watch tv, fine, but you get up and do stuff. walk around your
backyard, paint a picture, whatever it is you like, show them there
are options. I don't think tv is addictive. I think it seems that way
when people who are stressed all day at work and school come home and
use it to destress. There's a huge difference neurologically between
people who are blanking out in front of the screen and families who
are actively engaged in what they are seeing.
Of course, we also eat dessert before dinner, so take it the way you
want. We've removed the power of sugar in our lives too, by eating it
when we like. No urge to cram it, no urge to hoard it. We eat fresh
fruits and veggies when we like as well. But the kids know what they
really want. Sometimes I offer junk, and they ask for fruit.
Sometimes I say I'm going to watch a movie, and they want to play
outside.
On Jan 18, 2006, at 7:01 PM, ideydidey wrote:
> HI all,
> I am new here, but I see that TV is a big part of a lot of people's
> lives. I have always thought that watching TV all day fell in the same
> category as eating chocolate or ice cream all day, something that even
> as an unschooler I wouldn't allow - I still feel that I need to help
> my child develop healthfully. So am I totally off-base on that? Does
> anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
> particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
>
> Just curious!
>
> Susan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> school education
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>
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>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mother Earth (Tyra)
Hello Breezy!
I have had concerns about TV. My son was on TV overdose when I decided to embrace radical unschooling. He really is becoming self-regulated with respect to TV watching. At age 5 yrs he will tell me that he is bored with TV. This is after being regulated somewhat to quite a bit up until that point.
It seems that when I stopped caring about how much TV he watches, that the TV became an instant nonissue. I will say that when he is in TV all the time mode, I feel it is because there is nothing more interesting going on. When I am doing interesting things that may or may be directed to my sons, they watch less TV. I have often heard on this list that it really is all about the parents getting into their children's worlds. I think that is the case at times with my son. If we are engaging each other, he watches less TV or at least talks throughout the entire program, which helps me to realized how great he is as an oral communicator and how well his memory is because he can tell stories verbatim.
I wish you much success on your unschooling journey.
Peace
Tyra
I have had concerns about TV. My son was on TV overdose when I decided to embrace radical unschooling. He really is becoming self-regulated with respect to TV watching. At age 5 yrs he will tell me that he is bored with TV. This is after being regulated somewhat to quite a bit up until that point.
It seems that when I stopped caring about how much TV he watches, that the TV became an instant nonissue. I will say that when he is in TV all the time mode, I feel it is because there is nothing more interesting going on. When I am doing interesting things that may or may be directed to my sons, they watch less TV. I have often heard on this list that it really is all about the parents getting into their children's worlds. I think that is the case at times with my son. If we are engaging each other, he watches less TV or at least talks throughout the entire program, which helps me to realized how great he is as an oral communicator and how well his memory is because he can tell stories verbatim.
I wish you much success on your unschooling journey.
Peace
Tyra
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Does
> > anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
> > particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
>
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 18, 2006, at 9:40 PM, jnjstau@... wrote:
to 11ish where she watched a lot of TV and she's always unschooled
and always had the freedom to watch as much as she wanted. She said
she had writer's block. Perhaps she was filling up on stories. It
didn't look like there was much going on. Yet now at 14 she writes a
tremendous amount and watches little TV.
And some other parents have said their preteens went through that
phase too.
I think part of it was not wanting to miss what might be coming on. I
think there were two factors. There were a lot of programs she liked
and she felt like she was at the mercy of the programmers who might
sneak a new episode in or replay one of her favorites. I think TiVo
would have helped by letting her capture everything she wanted to
watch and letting her watch it when she wanted to. But in the
meantime she got older and her interests changed.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> If I did have a kid that was watching many hours of tv after theOr it could be a stage. My daughter went through a period from 10ish
> initial binge, I would perhaps worry that she was bored or depressed.
to 11ish where she watched a lot of TV and she's always unschooled
and always had the freedom to watch as much as she wanted. She said
she had writer's block. Perhaps she was filling up on stories. It
didn't look like there was much going on. Yet now at 14 she writes a
tremendous amount and watches little TV.
And some other parents have said their preteens went through that
phase too.
I think part of it was not wanting to miss what might be coming on. I
think there were two factors. There were a lot of programs she liked
and she felt like she was at the mercy of the programmers who might
sneak a new episode in or replay one of her favorites. I think TiVo
would have helped by letting her capture everything she wanted to
watch and letting her watch it when she wanted to. But in the
meantime she got older and her interests changed.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Melissa <autismhelp@...>
Of course, we also eat dessert before dinner, so take it the way you
want. We've removed the power of sugar in our lives too, by eating it
when we like. No urge to cram it, no urge to hoard it. We eat fresh
fruits and veggies when we like as well. But the kids know what they
really want. Sometimes I offer junk, and they ask for fruit.
Sometimes I say I'm going to watch a movie, and they want to play
outside.
-=-=-
Right. I make up monkey platters for Duncan. I'll have pita chips with hummus, carrots & cucumbers with dill dip, sliced pears, nuts, graham crackers wth peanut butter, and chocolate chips. The kids *may* eat the chocolate chips first---I don't notice. But when they deliver the platter back to the kitchen, it's empty.
If the TV is just one choice of many---AND ALL THE CHOICES ARE EQUAL IN *MY* EYES!---then they will choose what they want because they *can*. They won't choose it because that's what's considered dessert---the forbidden fruit.
And how do you explain all of us who *have* stopped the arbitrary limiting? ANd our kids don't eat ice cream all day and are eager to drop TV for some other activity?
It works. It really does!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Melissa <autismhelp@...>
Of course, we also eat dessert before dinner, so take it the way you
want. We've removed the power of sugar in our lives too, by eating it
when we like. No urge to cram it, no urge to hoard it. We eat fresh
fruits and veggies when we like as well. But the kids know what they
really want. Sometimes I offer junk, and they ask for fruit.
Sometimes I say I'm going to watch a movie, and they want to play
outside.
-=-=-
Right. I make up monkey platters for Duncan. I'll have pita chips with hummus, carrots & cucumbers with dill dip, sliced pears, nuts, graham crackers wth peanut butter, and chocolate chips. The kids *may* eat the chocolate chips first---I don't notice. But when they deliver the platter back to the kitchen, it's empty.
If the TV is just one choice of many---AND ALL THE CHOICES ARE EQUAL IN *MY* EYES!---then they will choose what they want because they *can*. They won't choose it because that's what's considered dessert---the forbidden fruit.
And how do you explain all of us who *have* stopped the arbitrary limiting? ANd our kids don't eat ice cream all day and are eager to drop TV for some other activity?
It works. It really does!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], "ideydidey"
<susanpatton@c...> wrote:
music to Legos. Just as ice cream or chocolate are no more or less
than a part of a whole balance of eating. Developing healthfully is
learning balance of things, not separating out certain things as "bad
for you" or "only a little bit now and then". There are times when I
want lots of chocolate, so I eat lots of chocolate. There are times
when one or two individual chocolate morsels is plenty and there are
times when I'd rather have strawberries. Just so, there are times when
I want lots of TV, times when I watch one or two favorites and that's
all and times when I am doing other things entirely. Balance. By
setting TV (or ice cream or cake or video games) out as something that
has to be rationed and earned (by finishing all the peas or reading 2
chapters or spending an hour out in the yard), it sets those things
apart as more desirable *because* they are rationed. (BTW have you
ever considered the whole 'finish all your supper before you have
dessert concept? Basically what it is saying is fill yourself up and
then you can have what you want, but by that time you're full, but you
still want the cookie so you over fill - seems like if you just ate as
much peas and as much chicken and as much cookie as you wanted it
would all balance without over eating). DS calls ice cream et
al 'dessert' since that's what it is called in the larger culture
(check a restaurant menu for instance). However, if he chooses, he can
have ice cream and then have a sandwich or can have both at the same
time (except the ice cream tends to get melty if he's going back and
forth). Manys the time that I've brought a double chocolate donut home
from work (when our summer interns leave, for instance, tradition is
that they bring donuts on their last day. I'll grab one and bring it
home for DS). When I get home from work, dinner is usually cooking if
not ready already. I'll give him the donut. Sometimes he saves it
until after eating whatever is for dinner. Other times he eats the
whole thing right away. And sometimes he'll eat part then eat dinner
then eat the rest. Since it has no greater or lesser weight than
anything else, no emotional ties, no hint of 'forbidden or
restricted', he eats it as he chooses when he chooses in response to
what his body says at the time. Of the three of us (me, DH, and DS) DS
is the most likely to eat one cookie and stop or leave a dish of ice
cream half eaten because he is done eating ice cream.
Same for TV - he watches when he wants, what he wants, and when he is
done, he moves to something else (and often he's doing something else
in the middle of TV watching also) and vice versa - when he's done
inthe yard or playing with Legos or whatever (when he's filled up on
how much of it he wants) he can move to TV or video games if he
chooses, if he has a 'taste' for it. Of us all, he is the least likely
to 'veg out' in front of the TV. He'll leave the room or turn it off
or simply ignore it (as he chooses) when he doesn't find anything he
wants to watch, whereas DH and I will flip channels back and forth
rather than turn it off.
But, in food and TV and other things, we're learning a lot about
balance and listening to our insides from DS and we're getting better
about it.
--Deb
<susanpatton@c...> wrote:
>It's no bigger a part of our lives than any other thing, from books to
> HI all,
> I am new here, but I see that TV is a big part of a lot of people's
> lives. I have always thought that watching TV all day fell in the
>same
> category as eating chocolate or ice cream all day, something that
>even
> as an unschooler I wouldn't allow - I still feel that I need to help
> my child develop healthfully. So am I totally off-base on that? Does
> anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
> particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
>
> Just curious!
>
> Susan
music to Legos. Just as ice cream or chocolate are no more or less
than a part of a whole balance of eating. Developing healthfully is
learning balance of things, not separating out certain things as "bad
for you" or "only a little bit now and then". There are times when I
want lots of chocolate, so I eat lots of chocolate. There are times
when one or two individual chocolate morsels is plenty and there are
times when I'd rather have strawberries. Just so, there are times when
I want lots of TV, times when I watch one or two favorites and that's
all and times when I am doing other things entirely. Balance. By
setting TV (or ice cream or cake or video games) out as something that
has to be rationed and earned (by finishing all the peas or reading 2
chapters or spending an hour out in the yard), it sets those things
apart as more desirable *because* they are rationed. (BTW have you
ever considered the whole 'finish all your supper before you have
dessert concept? Basically what it is saying is fill yourself up and
then you can have what you want, but by that time you're full, but you
still want the cookie so you over fill - seems like if you just ate as
much peas and as much chicken and as much cookie as you wanted it
would all balance without over eating). DS calls ice cream et
al 'dessert' since that's what it is called in the larger culture
(check a restaurant menu for instance). However, if he chooses, he can
have ice cream and then have a sandwich or can have both at the same
time (except the ice cream tends to get melty if he's going back and
forth). Manys the time that I've brought a double chocolate donut home
from work (when our summer interns leave, for instance, tradition is
that they bring donuts on their last day. I'll grab one and bring it
home for DS). When I get home from work, dinner is usually cooking if
not ready already. I'll give him the donut. Sometimes he saves it
until after eating whatever is for dinner. Other times he eats the
whole thing right away. And sometimes he'll eat part then eat dinner
then eat the rest. Since it has no greater or lesser weight than
anything else, no emotional ties, no hint of 'forbidden or
restricted', he eats it as he chooses when he chooses in response to
what his body says at the time. Of the three of us (me, DH, and DS) DS
is the most likely to eat one cookie and stop or leave a dish of ice
cream half eaten because he is done eating ice cream.
Same for TV - he watches when he wants, what he wants, and when he is
done, he moves to something else (and often he's doing something else
in the middle of TV watching also) and vice versa - when he's done
inthe yard or playing with Legos or whatever (when he's filled up on
how much of it he wants) he can move to TV or video games if he
chooses, if he has a 'taste' for it. Of us all, he is the least likely
to 'veg out' in front of the TV. He'll leave the room or turn it off
or simply ignore it (as he chooses) when he doesn't find anything he
wants to watch, whereas DH and I will flip channels back and forth
rather than turn it off.
But, in food and TV and other things, we're learning a lot about
balance and listening to our insides from DS and we're getting better
about it.
--Deb
nrskay
Hi Breezy:
My 11 yo dd watched TV, played neopets and played PS2 almost non-stop
for 6 months while she was deschooling. Now we enjoy all kinds of
things together. We play PS2 and neopets together and watch some TV
together. My biggest concern was the way she was shutting me out. Now
she can't stand it if I'm not involved with what she is doing, (she's
my youngest and only child at home).
Let your son deschool, you and your hubby need to deschool too. It is
not easy, I really struggled with whether I was ruining her life by
letting her do this stuff all day. You will see the fruits of your
relaxing when this stage is over.
Kay
My 11 yo dd watched TV, played neopets and played PS2 almost non-stop
for 6 months while she was deschooling. Now we enjoy all kinds of
things together. We play PS2 and neopets together and watch some TV
together. My biggest concern was the way she was shutting me out. Now
she can't stand it if I'm not involved with what she is doing, (she's
my youngest and only child at home).
Let your son deschool, you and your hubby need to deschool too. It is
not easy, I really struggled with whether I was ruining her life by
letting her do this stuff all day. You will see the fruits of your
relaxing when this stage is over.
Kay
Ann
April Morris <klkb624@...> wrote
It doesn't matter how much or little tv my kids watch, how much or little
sugar, caffeine or anything else they consume. These amounts don't effect
how much parenting my kids get. They get all the parenting I can give them
whatever they are doing, whatever they are interested in, whatever they need
at any given time.
You are not trusting your kids to regulate themselves. You are assuming they
cannot make the choices that are best for them.
**********
I agree with you April. As I read this discussion about TV, I wan to to say HUH????? My kids learn so much form TV. Right this minute they are watchinga History channel show about Houdinni. I hear gasps of WOW, that is cool, Hey mom, come look at this etc... They had not heard of Houdinni before today, they were scrolling through the tv guide and one asked mom, who is Houdinni (thye even need help reading the name, but I was there for that!) I gave a brief explanation based on what I knew. They were curious, they wanted to watch, they learned, tv was the tool. True learning happens when kids get to interact with stuff that is meaningful to them. Tv is just one tool in making that happen. It makes their world bigger, it seems to me, lack of tv would make their world smaller.
Ann
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It doesn't matter how much or little tv my kids watch, how much or little
sugar, caffeine or anything else they consume. These amounts don't effect
how much parenting my kids get. They get all the parenting I can give them
whatever they are doing, whatever they are interested in, whatever they need
at any given time.
You are not trusting your kids to regulate themselves. You are assuming they
cannot make the choices that are best for them.
**********
I agree with you April. As I read this discussion about TV, I wan to to say HUH????? My kids learn so much form TV. Right this minute they are watchinga History channel show about Houdinni. I hear gasps of WOW, that is cool, Hey mom, come look at this etc... They had not heard of Houdinni before today, they were scrolling through the tv guide and one asked mom, who is Houdinni (thye even need help reading the name, but I was there for that!) I gave a brief explanation based on what I knew. They were curious, they wanted to watch, they learned, tv was the tool. True learning happens when kids get to interact with stuff that is meaningful to them. Tv is just one tool in making that happen. It makes their world bigger, it seems to me, lack of tv would make their world smaller.
Ann
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasairíona of Crea
Ann wrote:
that our family as a unit is unhappy and disharmonious when the TV is on
too much. My children act like junkies- they won't sleep, they're on
edge, they scream a lot, they fight nonstop, and our home becomes an
ugly and unpleasant place to be.
If some people have found that their kids respond differently, that's
fine by me. I'm not out to convert anyone to my way of thinking, only to
let folks know that there is more than one way for things to work. Every
family is different, and every child is different. In my house, we're
all a lot happier if the TV isn't on too much.
It seems to me that a lot if not most unschoolers feel that they have to
homogenize and feel the same way about most everything. I have found
that this can become stifling, and if I find that something that another
family does, or that most other families do, doesn't work for us, we
should be able to throw it out and find what does work for us, without
feeling like we have 'failed' at being good unschoolers.
I doubt that anyone here would sit by and watch while their children did
drugs, or watched porn, or played in a busy street, or any number of
other things. Everyone has some place where a line has to be drawn on
some issue. Fortunately, we don't all have to draw the same line in the
same spot, because each one of us and each one of our children is a
unique person. In the same way that the one-size-fits-all school
approach can be unhealthy, so can a similar approach be unhealthy at home.
For our family, less is more when it comes to TV. Having a happy house
that all act like we love each other is important to me, and that
doesn't tend to be the case when the boob tube is on too much. When we
all scream at each other and fight all day, no one is happy that we're
all home, together. It would be hard for me to convey how this works at
my house without having each one of you come and stay with us, and I'm
sure that someone has a 'cure' that has worked for them. What works for
us is different, and that's ok. too.
Sláinte,
Breezy
>As do mine. But what I have found, after years of experimentation, is
>
> April Morris <klkb624@...> wrote
>
> It doesn't matter how much or little tv my kids watch, how much or little
> sugar, caffeine or anything else they consume. These amounts don't effect
> how much parenting my kids get. They get all the parenting I can give them
> whatever they are doing, whatever they are interested in, whatever
> they need
> at any given time.
that our family as a unit is unhappy and disharmonious when the TV is on
too much. My children act like junkies- they won't sleep, they're on
edge, they scream a lot, they fight nonstop, and our home becomes an
ugly and unpleasant place to be.
If some people have found that their kids respond differently, that's
fine by me. I'm not out to convert anyone to my way of thinking, only to
let folks know that there is more than one way for things to work. Every
family is different, and every child is different. In my house, we're
all a lot happier if the TV isn't on too much.
It seems to me that a lot if not most unschoolers feel that they have to
homogenize and feel the same way about most everything. I have found
that this can become stifling, and if I find that something that another
family does, or that most other families do, doesn't work for us, we
should be able to throw it out and find what does work for us, without
feeling like we have 'failed' at being good unschoolers.
I doubt that anyone here would sit by and watch while their children did
drugs, or watched porn, or played in a busy street, or any number of
other things. Everyone has some place where a line has to be drawn on
some issue. Fortunately, we don't all have to draw the same line in the
same spot, because each one of us and each one of our children is a
unique person. In the same way that the one-size-fits-all school
approach can be unhealthy, so can a similar approach be unhealthy at home.
For our family, less is more when it comes to TV. Having a happy house
that all act like we love each other is important to me, and that
doesn't tend to be the case when the boob tube is on too much. When we
all scream at each other and fight all day, no one is happy that we're
all home, together. It would be hard for me to convey how this works at
my house without having each one of you come and stay with us, and I'm
sure that someone has a 'cure' that has worked for them. What works for
us is different, and that's ok. too.
Sláinte,
Breezy
April Morris
Of course every family will implement the ideas and philosophy of
unschooling differently. How unschooling looks will be different with each
family. No problems there. But TV isn't just another option if you refer to
it as the "boob tube". This is a very negative connotation. This will be
reflected in the how much and what kind of an option it is to your kids. TV
can be a wonderful tool. It can be the source of a lot of learning. It can
be a much need way to relax and unwind. It can be a great bonding time.
Sometimes it is watched a lot, sometimes a little, every family will be
different. Even within our family we go in cycles and seasons. Sometimes we
can go days without it on, other times it's on all the time. Either way is
just as acceptable and never is it referred to in a derogatory way. How it
is referred to is a much bigger issue and concern than how much or little it
is watched. How do the kids feel when they really want to watch something,
but knowing to you it is a less desirable and good option. They might watch
it, but they will keep with them the knowledge that Mom thinks this it's is
just a 'boob tube' and doesn't have any real value. Then they live with the
idea that something they like and want doesn't have value to Mom. That's
not 'just another option', now it's a lesser choice or a bad choice
according to Mom. Our words say a lot about what we think and convey to our
kids.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 1/20/06, Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasairíona of Creavanore <
redgoddess@...> wrote:
unschooling differently. How unschooling looks will be different with each
family. No problems there. But TV isn't just another option if you refer to
it as the "boob tube". This is a very negative connotation. This will be
reflected in the how much and what kind of an option it is to your kids. TV
can be a wonderful tool. It can be the source of a lot of learning. It can
be a much need way to relax and unwind. It can be a great bonding time.
Sometimes it is watched a lot, sometimes a little, every family will be
different. Even within our family we go in cycles and seasons. Sometimes we
can go days without it on, other times it's on all the time. Either way is
just as acceptable and never is it referred to in a derogatory way. How it
is referred to is a much bigger issue and concern than how much or little it
is watched. How do the kids feel when they really want to watch something,
but knowing to you it is a less desirable and good option. They might watch
it, but they will keep with them the knowledge that Mom thinks this it's is
just a 'boob tube' and doesn't have any real value. Then they live with the
idea that something they like and want doesn't have value to Mom. That's
not 'just another option', now it's a lesser choice or a bad choice
according to Mom. Our words say a lot about what we think and convey to our
kids.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 1/20/06, Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasairíona of Creavanore <
redgoddess@...> wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Ann wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > April Morris <klkb624@...> wrote
> >
> > It doesn't matter how much or little tv my kids watch, how much or
> little
> > sugar, caffeine or anything else they consume. These amounts don't
> effect
> > how much parenting my kids get. They get all the parenting I can give
> them
> > whatever they are doing, whatever they are interested in, whatever
> > they need
> > at any given time.
>
> As do mine. But what I have found, after years of experimentation, is
> that our family as a unit is unhappy and disharmonious when the TV is on
> too much. My children act like junkies- they won't sleep, they're on
> edge, they scream a lot, they fight nonstop, and our home becomes an
> ugly and unpleasant place to be.
>
> If some people have found that their kids respond differently, that's
> fine by me. I'm not out to convert anyone to my way of thinking, only to
> let folks know that there is more than one way for things to work. Every
> family is different, and every child is different. In my house, we're
> all a lot happier if the TV isn't on too much.
>
> It seems to me that a lot if not most unschoolers feel that they have to
> homogenize and feel the same way about most everything. I have found
> that this can become stifling, and if I find that something that another
> family does, or that most other families do, doesn't work for us, we
> should be able to throw it out and find what does work for us, without
> feeling like we have 'failed' at being good unschoolers.
>
> I doubt that anyone here would sit by and watch while their children did
> drugs, or watched porn, or played in a busy street, or any number of
> other things. Everyone has some place where a line has to be drawn on
> some issue. Fortunately, we don't all have to draw the same line in the
> same spot, because each one of us and each one of our children is a
> unique person. In the same way that the one-size-fits-all school
> approach can be unhealthy, so can a similar approach be unhealthy at home.
>
> For our family, less is more when it comes to TV. Having a happy house
> that all act like we love each other is important to me, and that
> doesn't tend to be the case when the boob tube is on too much. When we
> all scream at each other and fight all day, no one is happy that we're
> all home, together. It would be hard for me to convey how this works at
> my house without having each one of you come and stay with us, and I'm
> sure that someone has a 'cure' that has worked for them. What works for
> us is different, and that's ok. too.
>
> Sláinte,
> Breezy
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasairíona of Creav anore redgoddess@...
For our family, less is more when it comes to TV. Having a happy house
that all act like we love each other is important to me, and that
doesn't tend to be the case when the boob tube is on too much. When we
all scream at each other and fight all day, no one is happy that we're
all home, together.
-=-=-=-
You may certainly refer to TV as "the boob tube" in your home. The connotation is negative and will probably effect how your family sees the TV. It will *seem* evil and not a good option.
But on *this* list, it is NOT to be referred to in a negative manner.
In an unschooling family, *everything* is educational, and TV is another tool. Vilifying it only makes it dangerous and something to be avoided. That's stupid.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasairíona of Creav anore redgoddess@...
For our family, less is more when it comes to TV. Having a happy house
that all act like we love each other is important to me, and that
doesn't tend to be the case when the boob tube is on too much. When we
all scream at each other and fight all day, no one is happy that we're
all home, together.
-=-=-=-
You may certainly refer to TV as "the boob tube" in your home. The connotation is negative and will probably effect how your family sees the TV. It will *seem* evil and not a good option.
But on *this* list, it is NOT to be referred to in a negative manner.
In an unschooling family, *everything* is educational, and TV is another tool. Vilifying it only makes it dangerous and something to be avoided. That's stupid.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: ideydidey <susanpatton@...>
I am new here, but I see that TV is a big part of a lot of people's
lives. I have always thought that watching TV all day fell in the same
category as eating chocolate or ice cream all day, something that even
as an unschooler I wouldn't allow -
-=-=-=-
Who says I won't "allow" any of that???
My boys may certainly eat ice cream or chocolate all day. But they choose not to. Because they have a
REAL choice.
They may also choose to wacth TV all day. Sometimes they do, more often not. But it's a choice that
belongs to *them*. It's real.
I've had days that I've lain on the sofa ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT. Veging out. Law and Order or West Wing or
M*A*S*H marathons. You bet! I ate Ben & Jerry's for breakfast this morning. I can do whatever I want. And
someitmes I choose to do just that. Most days I don't. My children have that same freedom. Amazingly,
they choose a variety of foods and choose whether or not to turn the TV on or off.
True choice.
-=-=-=-
I still feel that I need to help
my child develop healthfully. So am I totally off-base on that? Does
anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
-=-=-=-
You're totally off-base in your attempt.
Try modelling the behavior you'd like to see. They really do want to be big and make good choices.
I certainly don't feel that TV is addictive or unhealthy or should be treated as "dessert"---it's NOT.
~KellyKelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: ideydidey <susanpatton@...>
I am new here, but I see that TV is a big part of a lot of people's
lives. I have always thought that watching TV all day fell in the same
category as eating chocolate or ice cream all day, something that even
as an unschooler I wouldn't allow -
-=-=-=-
Who says I won't "allow" any of that???
My boys may certainly eat ice cream or chocolate all day. But they choose not to. Because they have a
REAL choice.
They may also choose to wacth TV all day. Sometimes they do, more often not. But it's a choice that
belongs to *them*. It's real.
I've had days that I've lain on the sofa ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT. Veging out. Law and Order or West Wing or
M*A*S*H marathons. You bet! I ate Ben & Jerry's for breakfast this morning. I can do whatever I want. And
someitmes I choose to do just that. Most days I don't. My children have that same freedom. Amazingly,
they choose a variety of foods and choose whether or not to turn the TV on or off.
True choice.
-=-=-=-
I still feel that I need to help
my child develop healthfully. So am I totally off-base on that? Does
anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)
-=-=-=-
You're totally off-base in your attempt.
Try modelling the behavior you'd like to see. They really do want to be big and make good choices.
I certainly don't feel that TV is addictive or unhealthy or should be treated as "dessert"---it's NOT.
~KellyKelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
I would see if she were interested in 4-H,
pottery, raising bees (just got my hive yesterday, yippee!!).
-=-=--
COOLCOOLCOOL!
You don't have your bees yet though---or?
They are sooo fascinating!
I love my bees!
I can't wait to hear about your beekeeping adventures, Julie!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would see if she were interested in 4-H,
pottery, raising bees (just got my hive yesterday, yippee!!).
-=-=--
COOLCOOLCOOL!
You don't have your bees yet though---or?
They are sooo fascinating!
I love my bees!
I can't wait to hear about your beekeeping adventures, Julie!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>But what I have found, after years of experimentation, isthat our family as a unit is unhappy and disharmonious when the TV is on
too much. My children act like junkies...>>
Whoa! That's a harsh comparison there. Have you ever actually seen a junkie? Someone who is truly addicted to a drug? Do you really want to describe your children that way?
>>Having a happy housethat all act like we love each other is important to me, and that
doesn't tend to be the case when the boob tube is on too much. When we
all scream at each other and fight all day, no one is happy that we're
all home, together.>>
If your starting point is calling the TV a boob tube, then don't you think that will color the reactions of the boobs who think it's fun to watch it? Won't that negative energy surrounding the kids choice of TV send back negative energy into the family?
I'm not pro-TV by the way. I'm pro using positive words and thought patterns wherever possible. The more I glow about my kids, the more they glow in return. When I used more negatives labels in my thoughts and words, that's what I saw more of in my home.
--
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasair�ona of Creavanore <redgoddess@...>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>I couldn't live with myself as a mother if I allowed asteady diet of TV.>>
It's important to remember that as unschoolers our goal is not to feed our kids a steady diet of TV. Our goal is to provide a rich, full and interesting life. It's to provide them choices and opportunities for how they choose to spend their time. If TV is the best choice for them, we should look at why that is. What are they getting from it or what are they not getting in other activities that TV is providing?
--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting right now."
~Ren Allen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
I guess I just don't understand the whole TV argument. As an adult I'm
drawn to my interests and the TV programs I watch (i.e. forensic science
shows like Cold Case Files and Forensic Files, and fashion with shows like
Project Runway) keep those interests alive in my busy life.
I see no difference in allowing my daughter to explore her interests and
that includes watching TV. She likes animals so she's always watching the
Animal Planet network. She obviously likes home decorating (at age 9) since
HGTV is on a lot in her room. Yes, she still watches Cartoon Network and
Nick but it's not nearly as much as she did just a year ago.
I don't pooh-pooh any of her interests. I let her live in freedom just as I
do.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: zenmomma@...
Date: 01/20/06 20:01:53
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Question about TV
It's important to remember that as unschoolers our goal is not to feed our
kids a steady diet of TV. Our goal is to provide a rich, full and
interesting life. It's to provide them choices and opportunities for how
they choose to spend their time. If TV is the best choice for them, we
should look at why that is. What are they getting from it or what are they
not getting in other activities that TV is providing?
--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be
in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going
to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting
right now."
~Ren Allen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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drawn to my interests and the TV programs I watch (i.e. forensic science
shows like Cold Case Files and Forensic Files, and fashion with shows like
Project Runway) keep those interests alive in my busy life.
I see no difference in allowing my daughter to explore her interests and
that includes watching TV. She likes animals so she's always watching the
Animal Planet network. She obviously likes home decorating (at age 9) since
HGTV is on a lot in her room. Yes, she still watches Cartoon Network and
Nick but it's not nearly as much as she did just a year ago.
I don't pooh-pooh any of her interests. I let her live in freedom just as I
do.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: zenmomma@...
Date: 01/20/06 20:01:53
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Question about TV
>>I couldn't live with myself as a mother if I allowed asteady diet of TV.>>
It's important to remember that as unschoolers our goal is not to feed our
kids a steady diet of TV. Our goal is to provide a rich, full and
interesting life. It's to provide them choices and opportunities for how
they choose to spend their time. If TV is the best choice for them, we
should look at why that is. What are they getting from it or what are they
not getting in other activities that TV is providing?
--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be
in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going
to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting
right now."
~Ren Allen
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My bees are coming in April. I am getting two hives and placing them out at our hunting ranch. I go out there on a regular basis. I am really looking forward to it.
Julie S.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
Date: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:20 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] beekeeping WAS: Question about TV
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I would see if she were interested in 4-H,
> pottery, raising bees (just got my hive yesterday, yippee!!).
>
> -=-=--
>
> COOLCOOLCOOL!
>
> You don't have your bees yet though---or?
>
> They are sooo fascinating!
>
> I love my bees!
>
> I can't wait to hear about your beekeeping adventures, Julie!
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://liveandlearnconference.org
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Deb Lewis
***I see that TV is a big part of a lot of people's
lives.***
I would say it's more like TV is *one* part of a BIG life. <g>
***Does anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)***
Have you thought much about why you have negative feelings about TV?
I have an idea most who feel negatively about TV do so because all their
lives they've heard negative things about TV. Teachers and parents have
said too much TV is "bad." And after years of negative brainwashing
about TV people get comfortable blaming the TV for choices *they* make.
( I watched this movie instead of cleaning house, TV is like a drug!)
Educators at first thought TV was going to be a great tool of education.
But a population of depression weary, war weary and post war Americans
found that TV entertainment was a delight in their joy starved lives.
Pretty soon, teachers discovered kids would rather talk about the latest
episode of their favorite program then about William Henry Harrison and
would rather watch TV then do their homework. But that's not a problem
with TV. The problem all along was with boring teachers, mind numbing
curriculum, compulsory school attendance and the pointless busy work of
homework.
Parents found out kids would rather watch their favorite programs than do
chores or homework. That's not a problem with TV, that's a problem with
inconsiderate parents and you know, that homework thing again.
Teachers told parents, "Limit that TV time" because they had to get kids
to do homework. Parents told kids "That TV is turning you into a
zombie!" because kids liked what the people on TV were saying more than
what their nagging mom was saying.
If a kid grows up in a "do this, do that" household with week after week
of "do this, do that" school, he'd have to be an idiot not to want
something fun and wonderful of his own choosing.
Is TV really the problem if a mom is nagging, demeaning a child's choices
and badgering a kid to do something he doesn't want to do? Is TV the
problem if a mom's telling a kid outright or in subtle ways he's weak
minded if he's watching TV? Is TV really the problem if it's more
pleasant than the controlling, demanding adults in a child's life?
I think year after year kids grow up hearing how bad TV is. TV is the
reason they won't clean their room. TV is the reason they won't set the
table. TV is the reason they're failing history. TV is the reason they
won't listen to their moms. So they reach adulthood, feeling guilty
over whatever little pleasure TV brings, having learned by example to
blame TV, and vowing not to let evil TV ruin their kid's lives.
I know what people say about TV. Their kids are cranky if they watch
too much. I'd like everyone who ever said that to look at the dynamic
between parent and child and see what else is going on because there's
almost always something else. Almost always one or both parents has a
negative attitude about TV and makes negative comments about TV in the
presence of their children and is making it hard for a child to just
peacefully enjoy TV.
As adults I'm sure all of us have had what we thought was a great idea
and had someone shoot it down. Nothing will make a person cop an
attitude faster than that feeling of being judged and found lacking by
someone we love. Parents do that to kids in regards to TV (and other
things) all the time.
I know it's always easier to blame something else if our kids seem
unhappy or cranky but it will benefit every family member if as parents
we look to our own actions and behaviors first and consider how those
actions infuse our kid's environment with negative or positive energy.
Deb Lewis
lives.***
I would say it's more like TV is *one* part of a BIG life. <g>
***Does anyone feel that way about TV (that it is addictive and not
particularly healthy for anyone and should be treated as "dessert"?)***
Have you thought much about why you have negative feelings about TV?
I have an idea most who feel negatively about TV do so because all their
lives they've heard negative things about TV. Teachers and parents have
said too much TV is "bad." And after years of negative brainwashing
about TV people get comfortable blaming the TV for choices *they* make.
( I watched this movie instead of cleaning house, TV is like a drug!)
Educators at first thought TV was going to be a great tool of education.
But a population of depression weary, war weary and post war Americans
found that TV entertainment was a delight in their joy starved lives.
Pretty soon, teachers discovered kids would rather talk about the latest
episode of their favorite program then about William Henry Harrison and
would rather watch TV then do their homework. But that's not a problem
with TV. The problem all along was with boring teachers, mind numbing
curriculum, compulsory school attendance and the pointless busy work of
homework.
Parents found out kids would rather watch their favorite programs than do
chores or homework. That's not a problem with TV, that's a problem with
inconsiderate parents and you know, that homework thing again.
Teachers told parents, "Limit that TV time" because they had to get kids
to do homework. Parents told kids "That TV is turning you into a
zombie!" because kids liked what the people on TV were saying more than
what their nagging mom was saying.
If a kid grows up in a "do this, do that" household with week after week
of "do this, do that" school, he'd have to be an idiot not to want
something fun and wonderful of his own choosing.
Is TV really the problem if a mom is nagging, demeaning a child's choices
and badgering a kid to do something he doesn't want to do? Is TV the
problem if a mom's telling a kid outright or in subtle ways he's weak
minded if he's watching TV? Is TV really the problem if it's more
pleasant than the controlling, demanding adults in a child's life?
I think year after year kids grow up hearing how bad TV is. TV is the
reason they won't clean their room. TV is the reason they won't set the
table. TV is the reason they're failing history. TV is the reason they
won't listen to their moms. So they reach adulthood, feeling guilty
over whatever little pleasure TV brings, having learned by example to
blame TV, and vowing not to let evil TV ruin their kid's lives.
I know what people say about TV. Their kids are cranky if they watch
too much. I'd like everyone who ever said that to look at the dynamic
between parent and child and see what else is going on because there's
almost always something else. Almost always one or both parents has a
negative attitude about TV and makes negative comments about TV in the
presence of their children and is making it hard for a child to just
peacefully enjoy TV.
As adults I'm sure all of us have had what we thought was a great idea
and had someone shoot it down. Nothing will make a person cop an
attitude faster than that feeling of being judged and found lacking by
someone we love. Parents do that to kids in regards to TV (and other
things) all the time.
I know it's always easier to blame something else if our kids seem
unhappy or cranky but it will benefit every family member if as parents
we look to our own actions and behaviors first and consider how those
actions infuse our kid's environment with negative or positive energy.
Deb Lewis
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 22, 2006, at 5:28 PM, Deb Lewis wrote:
video games or computer time. (I know some adults who can get cranky
if they're on the computer too long ;-) It's part of the process of
learning about their bodies. But it isn't the TV (or video games or
computer). It's learning to be aware of your bodies needs.
Parents can bring kids food, be aware enough to suggest breaks --
like going to the bathroom at the end of a level, making cookies :-),
offer things that are better like a trip to a new park, point out
when they're cranky that there may be a connection with not moving
around periodically -- to *help* them see a connection so they can
help themselves not feel yucky rather than as a way to get them to
agree and stop so much TV.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I know what people say about TV. Their kids are cranky if they watchThough some kids do get cranky from trying to pack in a lot of TV or
> too much.
video games or computer time. (I know some adults who can get cranky
if they're on the computer too long ;-) It's part of the process of
learning about their bodies. But it isn't the TV (or video games or
computer). It's learning to be aware of your bodies needs.
Parents can bring kids food, be aware enough to suggest breaks --
like going to the bathroom at the end of a level, making cookies :-),
offer things that are better like a trip to a new park, point out
when they're cranky that there may be a connection with not moving
around periodically -- to *help* them see a connection so they can
help themselves not feel yucky rather than as a way to get them to
agree and stop so much TV.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/23/2006 5:24:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
Though some kids do get cranky from trying to pack in a lot of TV or
video games or computer time. (I know some adults who can get cranky
if they're on the computer too long ;-) It's part of the process of
learning about their bodies. But it isn't the TV (or video games or
computer). It's learning to be aware of your bodies needs.
Parents can bring kids food, be aware enough to suggest breaks --
like going to the bathroom at the end of a level, making cookies :-),
offer things that are better like a trip to a new park, point out
when they're cranky that there may be a connection with not moving
around periodically -- to *help* them see a connection so they can
help themselves not feel yucky rather than as a way to get them to
agree and stop so much TV.
Joyce
*****************
One of the ways Joyce explains things really resonates with me and I think
it would be a good example of this. She reminds us to think how would we
approach our spouse about the same issue.
My husband has to be up very early in the morning for work. Sometimes, he
gets glued to the computer and goes to bed late and then can't go to sleep.
He knows this and he has shared it with me. So if he's on the computer and it
is his "bedtime", I might call his attention to the time or that he has an
extra busy day tomorrow. He is of course free to be on the computer all night
long if he wants, but it is nice to know that someone cares enough to help
him either make information known (he didn't realize the time) or help make
the transition ("I was just thinking the same thing"). Maybe I've even said in
the past "I notice that after you are on the computer, you have a hard time
going to sleep."
It isn't controlling, it is just part of a supportive life together as a
family. It might take a child a little longer to make those connections, but
they are invaluable!
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
Though some kids do get cranky from trying to pack in a lot of TV or
video games or computer time. (I know some adults who can get cranky
if they're on the computer too long ;-) It's part of the process of
learning about their bodies. But it isn't the TV (or video games or
computer). It's learning to be aware of your bodies needs.
Parents can bring kids food, be aware enough to suggest breaks --
like going to the bathroom at the end of a level, making cookies :-),
offer things that are better like a trip to a new park, point out
when they're cranky that there may be a connection with not moving
around periodically -- to *help* them see a connection so they can
help themselves not feel yucky rather than as a way to get them to
agree and stop so much TV.
Joyce
*****************
One of the ways Joyce explains things really resonates with me and I think
it would be a good example of this. She reminds us to think how would we
approach our spouse about the same issue.
My husband has to be up very early in the morning for work. Sometimes, he
gets glued to the computer and goes to bed late and then can't go to sleep.
He knows this and he has shared it with me. So if he's on the computer and it
is his "bedtime", I might call his attention to the time or that he has an
extra busy day tomorrow. He is of course free to be on the computer all night
long if he wants, but it is nice to know that someone cares enough to help
him either make information known (he didn't realize the time) or help make
the transition ("I was just thinking the same thing"). Maybe I've even said in
the past "I notice that after you are on the computer, you have a hard time
going to sleep."
It isn't controlling, it is just part of a supportive life together as a
family. It might take a child a little longer to make those connections, but
they are invaluable!
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]