New at unschooling
Aisha Abdul Rahman
I am not sure if what I am trying to do is unschooling. I have always used an eclectic method
to homeschooling my children. But no that I am homeschooling all three, I am about ready to
pull out my hair. I thought that unschool would be a lot less stressful.
We would play games, read some books, do some projects etc. It seems that my kids do not
initiate this on their own, especially the oldest. All he wants to do, is play games on the
computer all day. And the others want to watch TV all day.
They know what they can and cannot watch, and adhere to these rules. BUT ALL DAY. So I
have limited the TV to the weekends only, and the computer to after 3, unless playing an
educational game, or research etc.
My kids are 10(boy) 6(boy) 5(girl)
Any suggestions on motivating them to want to learn more, and become more self directed
in their learning?
i can come up with a project idea, and they are all for it, but unless I sit right there with them,
they do not work on it very long, and they fight.
OH THE FIGHTING. Some days, I just send them to their rooms to play.
I am getting so burnt out, I need to revamp.
to homeschooling my children. But no that I am homeschooling all three, I am about ready to
pull out my hair. I thought that unschool would be a lot less stressful.
We would play games, read some books, do some projects etc. It seems that my kids do not
initiate this on their own, especially the oldest. All he wants to do, is play games on the
computer all day. And the others want to watch TV all day.
They know what they can and cannot watch, and adhere to these rules. BUT ALL DAY. So I
have limited the TV to the weekends only, and the computer to after 3, unless playing an
educational game, or research etc.
My kids are 10(boy) 6(boy) 5(girl)
Any suggestions on motivating them to want to learn more, and become more self directed
in their learning?
i can come up with a project idea, and they are all for it, but unless I sit right there with them,
they do not work on it very long, and they fight.
OH THE FIGHTING. Some days, I just send them to their rooms to play.
I am getting so burnt out, I need to revamp.
Ren Allen
"So I have limited the TV to the weekends only, and the computer to
after 3, unless playing an educational game, or research etc."
I suggest relaxing about all the TV and games. It will keep on being
the MOST fascinating thing to them if you limit it.
What you're doing right now is causing stress and lack of harmony in
your home right? So what I'm going to suggest as your first step
towards unschooling is right now, this very moment take a vacation.
Today is the first day of summer vacation (don't worry about the
dates, it's really summer vacation ok?:). The next three months you
don't need to worry about what is "educational" for your children, you
don't need to cover any topics or do any projects.
You need to plan your summer vacation around doing the things that
bring all of you JOY. Watch tv with them, rent movies, go for walks,
play games because it's FUN (no "educational" games allowed), paint,
draw, wiggle your toes, feel LIFE flowing through you and around you
every moment!!
You are only allowed to do things because they're FUN, it's summer
vacation right?
Do this for the next three months and please report back to us if your
children learn absolutely nothing (because they'll be the first
children EVER).
Then, if you get to the end of the vacation and realize you were all
learning while having fun, you might just decide to keep on being on
vacation....and then you'll realize you're actually UNSCHOOLING!!
:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
after 3, unless playing an educational game, or research etc."
I suggest relaxing about all the TV and games. It will keep on being
the MOST fascinating thing to them if you limit it.
What you're doing right now is causing stress and lack of harmony in
your home right? So what I'm going to suggest as your first step
towards unschooling is right now, this very moment take a vacation.
Today is the first day of summer vacation (don't worry about the
dates, it's really summer vacation ok?:). The next three months you
don't need to worry about what is "educational" for your children, you
don't need to cover any topics or do any projects.
You need to plan your summer vacation around doing the things that
bring all of you JOY. Watch tv with them, rent movies, go for walks,
play games because it's FUN (no "educational" games allowed), paint,
draw, wiggle your toes, feel LIFE flowing through you and around you
every moment!!
You are only allowed to do things because they're FUN, it's summer
vacation right?
Do this for the next three months and please report back to us if your
children learn absolutely nothing (because they'll be the first
children EVER).
Then, if you get to the end of the vacation and realize you were all
learning while having fun, you might just decide to keep on being on
vacation....and then you'll realize you're actually UNSCHOOLING!!
:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Deb
Couldn't have said it any better than Ren.
If what you really want to do is unschool then you need to step away
from anything resembling school -like expecting them to just pick up
stuff that looks 'educational' or looks like it would when you were
doing school - *most* learning doesn't look at all like school, it
isn't divided up into subject cubbieholes and progress sequentially
and readily submit to pinning it down to grade levels and such. It
can come from anywhere - including TV and video games. They are
learning all the time, as Ren said, if you can say after 3 months
that they haven't learned anything, then it'll probably be a first.
Don't *tell* them Okay all rules are off. Just say Yes when they ask
to watch a show or turn on the computer.
It is life in all it's abundance.
--Deb
PS You might consider getting a copy of this book Parenting a Free
Child http://www.freechild.info/ - it'll answer lots of 'what
about...?' questions in a nice Q&A format
If what you really want to do is unschool then you need to step away
from anything resembling school -like expecting them to just pick up
stuff that looks 'educational' or looks like it would when you were
doing school - *most* learning doesn't look at all like school, it
isn't divided up into subject cubbieholes and progress sequentially
and readily submit to pinning it down to grade levels and such. It
can come from anywhere - including TV and video games. They are
learning all the time, as Ren said, if you can say after 3 months
that they haven't learned anything, then it'll probably be a first.
Don't *tell* them Okay all rules are off. Just say Yes when they ask
to watch a show or turn on the computer.
It is life in all it's abundance.
--Deb
PS You might consider getting a copy of this book Parenting a Free
Child http://www.freechild.info/ - it'll answer lots of 'what
about...?' questions in a nice Q&A format
[email protected]
<<Any suggestions on motivating them to learn more>>
My suggestion is to really trust them, to really turn control of their "education" over to them, to see that limiting what and when they are allowed to do things to rather arbitrary limits is NOT setting up a learning environment, but a controlling one.
You have been controlling their education and they need to de-school. My daughter watched tv non-stop for 4 months.....then she got interested in real life. Today, she helped me midwife a goat that was having trouble birthing a brute of a baby. She watched her siblings while I ran an errand. She worked at her job and worked out at the gym. She planned a topic for speech she is supposed to give for 4-H (which she loves) and talked about a paper she is writing for a class she chose to take.
As long as you relax, it will happen. If you don't, it won't.
Julie S.
My suggestion is to really trust them, to really turn control of their "education" over to them, to see that limiting what and when they are allowed to do things to rather arbitrary limits is NOT setting up a learning environment, but a controlling one.
You have been controlling their education and they need to de-school. My daughter watched tv non-stop for 4 months.....then she got interested in real life. Today, she helped me midwife a goat that was having trouble birthing a brute of a baby. She watched her siblings while I ran an errand. She worked at her job and worked out at the gym. She planned a topic for speech she is supposed to give for 4-H (which she loves) and talked about a paper she is writing for a class she chose to take.
As long as you relax, it will happen. If you don't, it won't.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Aisha Abdul Rahman <muslimah4allah@...>
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:35 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] New at unschooling
> I am not sure if what I am trying to do is unschooling. I have
> always used an eclectic method
> to homeschooling my children. But no that I am homeschooling all
> three, I am about ready to
> pull out my hair. I thought that unschool would be a lot less
> stressful.
> We would play games, read some books, do some projects etc. It
> seems that my kids do not
> initiate this on their own, especially the oldest. All he wants to
> do, is play games on the
> computer all day. And the others want to watch TV all day.
>
> They know what they can and cannot watch, and adhere to these
> rules. BUT ALL DAY. So I
> have limited the TV to the weekends only, and the computer to
> after 3, unless playing an
> educational game, or research etc.
>
> My kids are 10(boy) 6(boy) 5(girl)
> Any suggestions on motivating them to want to learn more, and
> become more self directed
> in their learning?
>
> i can come up with a project idea, and they are all for it, but
> unless I sit right there with them,
> they do not work on it very long, and they fight.
>
> OH THE FIGHTING. Some days, I just send them to their rooms to play.
> I am getting so burnt out, I need to revamp.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 18, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Aisha Abdul Rahman wrote:
what you want them to do/what you think is a good use of time and
what they want to do. It should all be what they want to do plus
ideas you bring in and offer.
importance.
Think about your favorite thing in the world. Then imagine that
someone only allows you to have it for 15 minutes a month. You could
have it other times. It's right there and you could pick it up but
you aren't allowed to. Imagine how much energy you would focus on
that upcoming 15 minutes you were allowed. Imagine how you would try
to sneak in as many minutes as you could get away with to expand the
15 minutes when you had it. Imagine what you would do if you were
alone and you knew no one would stop you from doing it even though it
wasn't your permitted time.
Rather than spending energy being a roadblock, spend energy helping
them explore their interests. Sit with them or bring laundry in to
fold while they watch their favorite programs or play on the
computer. Ask them what they like about them. Walk along beside them
as they explore rather than waiting off on the side beside something
you wish they were interested in. But do be interested yourself and
let that interest flow out to them. Show them things. They can't
expand their interests if new ideas aren't running through their
lives. But don't invest much in their interest. Your part is to be
interested in things and share with them, not make them learn.
them right now.
expectation. My daughter at 14 often enjoys doing crafts with me
because it's the togetherness part she enjoys as much as the craft.
And even when she's doing something on her own like drawing she likes
to have me drawing at the same time.
what's going on? What are some recent scenarios?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> We would play games, read some books, do some projects etc. ItIf you want to unschool it will help not to divide the world between
> seems that my kids do not
> initiate this on their own, especially the oldest. All he wants to
> do, is play games on the
> computer all day. And the others want to watch TV all day.
what you want them to do/what you think is a good use of time and
what they want to do. It should all be what they want to do plus
ideas you bring in and offer.
> They know what they can and cannot watch, and adhere to theseAs said on the other thread, when things are limited they grow in
> rules. BUT ALL DAY. So I
> have limited the TV to the weekends only, and the computer to after
> 3, unless playing an
> educational game, or research etc.
importance.
Think about your favorite thing in the world. Then imagine that
someone only allows you to have it for 15 minutes a month. You could
have it other times. It's right there and you could pick it up but
you aren't allowed to. Imagine how much energy you would focus on
that upcoming 15 minutes you were allowed. Imagine how you would try
to sneak in as many minutes as you could get away with to expand the
15 minutes when you had it. Imagine what you would do if you were
alone and you knew no one would stop you from doing it even though it
wasn't your permitted time.
Rather than spending energy being a roadblock, spend energy helping
them explore their interests. Sit with them or bring laundry in to
fold while they watch their favorite programs or play on the
computer. Ask them what they like about them. Walk along beside them
as they explore rather than waiting off on the side beside something
you wish they were interested in. But do be interested yourself and
let that interest flow out to them. Show them things. They can't
expand their interests if new ideas aren't running through their
lives. But don't invest much in their interest. Your part is to be
interested in things and share with them, not make them learn.
> Any suggestions on motivating them to want to learn more, andYes, be more interested in what they are exploring and what interests
> become more self directed
> in their learning?
them right now.
> i can come up with a project idea, and they are all for it, butSome kids do projects independently but that's personality, not an
> unless I sit right there with them,
> they do not work on it very long, and they fight.
expectation. My daughter at 14 often enjoys doing crafts with me
because it's the togetherness part she enjoys as much as the craft.
And even when she's doing something on her own like drawing she likes
to have me drawing at the same time.
> OH THE FIGHTING. Some days, I just send them to their rooms to play.There's something that's stressing them. Can you talk more about
> I am getting so burnt out, I need to revamp.
what's going on? What are some recent scenarios?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Aisha Abdul Rahman
THE FIGHTING
Well the fact that my daughter is the only girl has a lot to do with
it. She is very bosy. It is not what she says, but the way she says
it. I always have to remind her to be respectful of others.
She wants things her way. My six year old little boy, always tries
to please everyone. Her, my oldest son ( 10) me, etc. He gets along
with anyone.
However my 10 year old, picks on them both constantly. He plays with
them a lot, and I tell him he needs to grow up a little. He has
friends of all ages. But like to boss around the little kids.
why they fight about everything, from toys, and what seat in the car
I have no idea. I think maybe they spend to much time together.
They have other friends, (very few) but are in public school all day.
I suggested to my husband that we save up some money, and put them
in some social activities other than our regular weekend family
nights with others.
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<fetteroll@e...> wrote:
Well the fact that my daughter is the only girl has a lot to do with
it. She is very bosy. It is not what she says, but the way she says
it. I always have to remind her to be respectful of others.
She wants things her way. My six year old little boy, always tries
to please everyone. Her, my oldest son ( 10) me, etc. He gets along
with anyone.
However my 10 year old, picks on them both constantly. He plays with
them a lot, and I tell him he needs to grow up a little. He has
friends of all ages. But like to boss around the little kids.
why they fight about everything, from toys, and what seat in the car
I have no idea. I think maybe they spend to much time together.
They have other friends, (very few) but are in public school all day.
I suggested to my husband that we save up some money, and put them
in some social activities other than our regular weekend family
nights with others.
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<fetteroll@e...> wrote:
>to
>
> On Jan 18, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Aisha Abdul Rahman wrote:
>
> > We would play games, read some books, do some projects etc. It
> > seems that my kids do not
> > initiate this on their own, especially the oldest. All he wants
> > do, is play games on thebetween
> > computer all day. And the others want to watch TV all day.
>
> If you want to unschool it will help not to divide the world
> what you want them to do/what you think is a good use of time andafter
> what they want to do. It should all be what they want to do plus
> ideas you bring in and offer.
>
> > They know what they can and cannot watch, and adhere to these
> > rules. BUT ALL DAY. So I
> > have limited the TV to the weekends only, and the computer to
> > 3, unless playing ancould
> > educational game, or research etc.
>
> As said on the other thread, when things are limited they grow in
> importance.
>
> Think about your favorite thing in the world. Then imagine that
> someone only allows you to have it for 15 minutes a month. You
> have it other times. It's right there and you could pick it upbut
> you aren't allowed to. Imagine how much energy you would focus ontry
> that upcoming 15 minutes you were allowed. Imagine how you would
> to sneak in as many minutes as you could get away with to expandthe
> 15 minutes when you had it. Imagine what you would do if you wereit
> alone and you knew no one would stop you from doing it even though
> wasn't your permitted time.helping
>
> Rather than spending energy being a roadblock, spend energy
> them explore their interests. Sit with them or bring laundry into
> fold while they watch their favorite programs or play on thethem
> computer. Ask them what they like about them. Walk along beside
> as they explore rather than waiting off on the side besidesomething
> you wish they were interested in. But do be interested yourselfand
> let that interest flow out to them. Show them things. They can'tbe
> expand their interests if new ideas aren't running through their
> lives. But don't invest much in their interest. Your part is to
> interested in things and share with them, not make them learn.interests
>
> > Any suggestions on motivating them to want to learn more, and
> > become more self directed
> > in their learning?
>
> Yes, be more interested in what they are exploring and what
> them right now.an
>
> > i can come up with a project idea, and they are all for it, but
> > unless I sit right there with them,
> > they do not work on it very long, and they fight.
>
> Some kids do projects independently but that's personality, not
> expectation. My daughter at 14 often enjoys doing crafts with mecraft.
> because it's the togetherness part she enjoys as much as the
> And even when she's doing something on her own like drawing shelikes
> to have me drawing at the same time.play.
>
> > OH THE FIGHTING. Some days, I just send them to their rooms to
> > I am getting so burnt out, I need to revamp.
>
> There's something that's stressing them. Can you talk more about
> what's going on? What are some recent scenarios?
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sylvia Toyama
why they fight about everything, from toys, and what seat in the car I have no idea. I think maybe they spend to much time together. They have other friends, (very few) but are in public school all day.
*****
I am going to recommend the very best book I've found on this topic -- Siblings Without Rivalry, by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. You can probably find it at your local library, but really you'll want to own it, so go ahead and buy a copy. It has some really good insights into why the kids fight, how they end up in roles (with our help) that perpetuate the fighting and ideas for how to stop the fighting.
Also, take a moment to think about how you see your children -- you opened by telling us your daughter is bossy, and that your oldest picks on the younger ones, and you spoke about how your youngest gets along with everyone, because he just wants to please. So, the baby is the pleasing child, the middle one is bossy -- what role does that leave for the oldest child? Good (people pleaser) child is already taken, powerful (bossy) child is already taken -- not many desirable roles left, are there? Don't forget, too, that before they came along, he was the only child, not requiring any sort of role at all. With only a sister, at least he was the only boy. Now that a brother has been added -- an eager to please one, at that -- he's no longer 'the' boy, just 'a' boy. And not being recognized as a good one. So often, the roles and characteristics assigned to a child by a parent are self-fulfilling (and self-defeating).
It might help to start by looking at each of your children and your perception of them. Maybe make a list, finding more positive ways to describe the undesirable traits -- bossy could be 'purposeful' or 'leadership qualities' that someday may take her far professionally. It also helps me to recognize that the most troublesome traits for me to handle in my kids are either those that don't fall far from the tree (my kids are definitely MY kids!) or that remind me of my own siblings, which tends to put me right back in that 8yo powerless world. It can be really scary and hard to think rationally in those moments.
Sylvia
Mom to Will (20) Andy (9) and Dan (4.5)
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*****
I am going to recommend the very best book I've found on this topic -- Siblings Without Rivalry, by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. You can probably find it at your local library, but really you'll want to own it, so go ahead and buy a copy. It has some really good insights into why the kids fight, how they end up in roles (with our help) that perpetuate the fighting and ideas for how to stop the fighting.
Also, take a moment to think about how you see your children -- you opened by telling us your daughter is bossy, and that your oldest picks on the younger ones, and you spoke about how your youngest gets along with everyone, because he just wants to please. So, the baby is the pleasing child, the middle one is bossy -- what role does that leave for the oldest child? Good (people pleaser) child is already taken, powerful (bossy) child is already taken -- not many desirable roles left, are there? Don't forget, too, that before they came along, he was the only child, not requiring any sort of role at all. With only a sister, at least he was the only boy. Now that a brother has been added -- an eager to please one, at that -- he's no longer 'the' boy, just 'a' boy. And not being recognized as a good one. So often, the roles and characteristics assigned to a child by a parent are self-fulfilling (and self-defeating).
It might help to start by looking at each of your children and your perception of them. Maybe make a list, finding more positive ways to describe the undesirable traits -- bossy could be 'purposeful' or 'leadership qualities' that someday may take her far professionally. It also helps me to recognize that the most troublesome traits for me to handle in my kids are either those that don't fall far from the tree (my kids are definitely MY kids!) or that remind me of my own siblings, which tends to put me right back in that 8yo powerless world. It can be really scary and hard to think rationally in those moments.
Sylvia
Mom to Will (20) Andy (9) and Dan (4.5)
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Aisha Abdul Rahman muslimah4allah@...
We would play games, read some books, do some projects etc. It seems that my
kids do not
initiate this on their own, especially the oldest. All he wants to do, is play
games on the
computer all day. And the others want to watch TV all day.
-=-=-=-
Seems that you had some unrealistic expectations.
Unschooling is about learning all the time. Trust in the process. Respect of their choices. And patience. Lots and lots of patience.
-=-=-=-
They know what they can and cannot watch, and adhere to these rules. BUT ALL
DAY. So I
have limited the TV to the weekends only, and the computer to after 3, unless
playing an
educational game, or research etc.
-=-=-=-
Rules schmules. Limiting results in lack which results in gorging.
What do you do for fun?
Read?
What if *I* said that you may ONLY read for three hours a day and only on the weekends---but not ALL weekend!
And you may only read what *I* deem appropriate?
-=-=-=-
My kids are 10(boy) 6(boy) 5(girl)
Any suggestions on motivating them to want to learn more, and become more self
directed
in their learning?
-=-=-
Yeah. Back off and trust them. Respect them. Play video games WITH them. Accept that learning happens all the time---even when watching tv and playing games.
They're self-directing NOW, but you just don't SEE it!
-=-=-=
OH THE FIGHTING. Some days, I just send them to their rooms to play.
I am getting so burnt out, I need to revamp.
-=-=-
I agree. You really need to BE there with them. Fully. Completely.
Engage them. PLAY! Be the mom you wished you had!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Aisha Abdul Rahman muslimah4allah@...
We would play games, read some books, do some projects etc. It seems that my
kids do not
initiate this on their own, especially the oldest. All he wants to do, is play
games on the
computer all day. And the others want to watch TV all day.
-=-=-=-
Seems that you had some unrealistic expectations.
Unschooling is about learning all the time. Trust in the process. Respect of their choices. And patience. Lots and lots of patience.
-=-=-=-
They know what they can and cannot watch, and adhere to these rules. BUT ALL
DAY. So I
have limited the TV to the weekends only, and the computer to after 3, unless
playing an
educational game, or research etc.
-=-=-=-
Rules schmules. Limiting results in lack which results in gorging.
What do you do for fun?
Read?
What if *I* said that you may ONLY read for three hours a day and only on the weekends---but not ALL weekend!
And you may only read what *I* deem appropriate?
-=-=-=-
My kids are 10(boy) 6(boy) 5(girl)
Any suggestions on motivating them to want to learn more, and become more self
directed
in their learning?
-=-=-
Yeah. Back off and trust them. Respect them. Play video games WITH them. Accept that learning happens all the time---even when watching tv and playing games.
They're self-directing NOW, but you just don't SEE it!
-=-=-=
OH THE FIGHTING. Some days, I just send them to their rooms to play.
I am getting so burnt out, I need to revamp.
-=-=-
I agree. You really need to BE there with them. Fully. Completely.
Engage them. PLAY! Be the mom you wished you had!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 20, 2006, at 9:29 AM, Sylvia Toyama wrote:
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am going to recommend the very best book I've found on thisI'd second that book. It's excellent and a very easy read.
> topic -- Siblings Without Rivalry, by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]