Sleep
Malinda Mills
I've had something come up at our home, and I was hoping y'all could give me some insight.
My question/concern is about sleep (or the lack there of). Before I pulled Tristan from school, he had problems sleeping every night. Once in bed (and we had to have a set bedtime to make sure he had adequate sleep for the next school day) he would claim that "I know I won't be able to sleep" "I'll just feel awful in the morning" "I don't know why I'm trying to sleep 'cause it just won't work!" I would be understanding, since I have dealt with my own sleep problems for a number of years. We'd talk in his darkened room, play quiet music that he liked, try to get him to relax and not focus on whether he could/could not sleep, etc. He was so stressed out about school, that he would run the day's events in his head over and over again and was unable to fall asleep. Or so I thought.
Now that we are unschooling (well, deschooling right now), I thought that his sleep problem would disappear. Not so. I decided to lift the bedtime restriction, and he has been going to bed late - between 1:30 and 3:00AM and then sleeping until about 11AM. I'm a nightowl, but even this is pushing it for me so I'll head to bed and allow him to stay up as long as it is quiet (he can watch a movie downstairs, read, play quietly, etc.).
Last night Tristan asked to get on the computer, and I allowed that. I found him still awake at 4AM this morning and going strong. I had him shut down the computer and go to bed (probably a mistake). I think the computer was a little TOO engaging.
I'm just wondering....is this most likely just a phase? A newfound freedom that he is exploring? I can see it easily developing into a habit, however. If someone doesn't wake up until one in the afternoon, they most likely will not be tired when midnight rolls around.
Although I want to lift any bedtime restrictions, I'm unsure about him sleeping all day (well, into the afternoon) and then staying up the majority of the night. My concern is that we do, at times, have commitments in the mornings. He's 9 and not yet at an age where I can leave him home alone. I was also hoping to get him involved with a local homeschooling group, but some of their activities are in the morning...not conducive to a child who is getting to bed in the wee hours of the morning.
Right now it's noon, and I haven't heard a peep for Tristan.
Malinda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My question/concern is about sleep (or the lack there of). Before I pulled Tristan from school, he had problems sleeping every night. Once in bed (and we had to have a set bedtime to make sure he had adequate sleep for the next school day) he would claim that "I know I won't be able to sleep" "I'll just feel awful in the morning" "I don't know why I'm trying to sleep 'cause it just won't work!" I would be understanding, since I have dealt with my own sleep problems for a number of years. We'd talk in his darkened room, play quiet music that he liked, try to get him to relax and not focus on whether he could/could not sleep, etc. He was so stressed out about school, that he would run the day's events in his head over and over again and was unable to fall asleep. Or so I thought.
Now that we are unschooling (well, deschooling right now), I thought that his sleep problem would disappear. Not so. I decided to lift the bedtime restriction, and he has been going to bed late - between 1:30 and 3:00AM and then sleeping until about 11AM. I'm a nightowl, but even this is pushing it for me so I'll head to bed and allow him to stay up as long as it is quiet (he can watch a movie downstairs, read, play quietly, etc.).
Last night Tristan asked to get on the computer, and I allowed that. I found him still awake at 4AM this morning and going strong. I had him shut down the computer and go to bed (probably a mistake). I think the computer was a little TOO engaging.
I'm just wondering....is this most likely just a phase? A newfound freedom that he is exploring? I can see it easily developing into a habit, however. If someone doesn't wake up until one in the afternoon, they most likely will not be tired when midnight rolls around.
Although I want to lift any bedtime restrictions, I'm unsure about him sleeping all day (well, into the afternoon) and then staying up the majority of the night. My concern is that we do, at times, have commitments in the mornings. He's 9 and not yet at an age where I can leave him home alone. I was also hoping to get him involved with a local homeschooling group, but some of their activities are in the morning...not conducive to a child who is getting to bed in the wee hours of the morning.
Right now it's noon, and I haven't heard a peep for Tristan.
Malinda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
camden
I'm not sure how much help this will be but I have a 14 yr old who doesnt go
to sleep until 1am -3 am. I used to get him up in the morning ( before
unschooling came into our lives) & he was a grouch ALL day. Even though I
got him up, he would still stay up till around 2 or 3 am. He just can't go
to sleep at an "early" hour.
Now that we let go of the control, he has the choice of going to sleep
early, staying up late, sleeping late, or getting up early....... our house
is a much happier house !! When there is something he wants to do (like
hunting with dad) he'll try & get to sleep by midnight so he can get up at
5am. So when he wants or needs to he chooses to get up. There are days we
go shopping & if he wants to go spend money he has to get up when we do but
its his choice. If he chooses not to get up, we go ahead & go without him.
But that doesnt happen very often he likes spending money too much :)
Mine was asleep till noon today also. Its also winter & we all tend to
sleep longer in the morning during these dark months. I'll be interested to
see if mine has the same sleep pattern come spring.
Carol
to sleep until 1am -3 am. I used to get him up in the morning ( before
unschooling came into our lives) & he was a grouch ALL day. Even though I
got him up, he would still stay up till around 2 or 3 am. He just can't go
to sleep at an "early" hour.
Now that we let go of the control, he has the choice of going to sleep
early, staying up late, sleeping late, or getting up early....... our house
is a much happier house !! When there is something he wants to do (like
hunting with dad) he'll try & get to sleep by midnight so he can get up at
5am. So when he wants or needs to he chooses to get up. There are days we
go shopping & if he wants to go spend money he has to get up when we do but
its his choice. If he chooses not to get up, we go ahead & go without him.
But that doesnt happen very often he likes spending money too much :)
Mine was asleep till noon today also. Its also winter & we all tend to
sleep longer in the morning during these dark months. I'll be interested to
see if mine has the same sleep pattern come spring.
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malinda Mills" <saprswife@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:09 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
> I've had something come up at our home, and I was hoping y'all could give
> me some insight.
>
> My question/concern is about sleep (or the lack there of). Before I
> pulled Tristan from school, he had problems sleeping every night. Once in
> bed (and we had to have a set bedtime to make sure he had adequate sleep
> for the next school day) he would claim that "I know I won't be able to
> sleep" "I'll just feel awful in the morning" "I don't know why I'm trying
> to sleep 'cause it just won't work!" I would be understanding, since I
> have dealt with my own sleep problems for a number of years. We'd talk in
> his darkened room, play quiet music that he liked, try to get him to relax
> and not focus on whether he could/could not sleep, etc. He was so
> stressed out about school, that he would run the day's events in his head
> over and over again and was unable to fall asleep. Or so I thought.
>
> Now that we are unschooling (well, deschooling right now), I thought that
> his sleep problem would disappear. Not so. I decided to lift the bedtime
> restriction, and he has been going to bed late - between 1:30 and 3:00AM
> and then sleeping until about 11AM. I'm a nightowl, but even this is
> pushing it for me so I'll head to bed and allow him to stay up as long as
> it is quiet (he can watch a movie downstairs, read, play quietly, etc.).
>
> Last night Tristan asked to get on the computer, and I allowed that. I
> found him still awake at 4AM this morning and going strong. I had him shut
> down the computer and go to bed (probably a mistake). I think the
> computer was a little TOO engaging.
>
> I'm just wondering....is this most likely just a phase? A newfound
> freedom that he is exploring? I can see it easily developing into a
> habit, however. If someone doesn't wake up until one in the afternoon,
> they most likely will not be tired when midnight rolls around.
>
> Although I want to lift any bedtime restrictions, I'm unsure about him
> sleeping all day (well, into the afternoon) and then staying up the
> majority of the night. My concern is that we do, at times, have
> commitments in the mornings. He's 9 and not yet at an age where I can
> leave him home alone. I was also hoping to get him involved with a local
> homeschooling group, but some of their activities are in the morning...not
> conducive to a child who is getting to bed in the wee hours of the
> morning.
>
> Right now it's noon, and I haven't heard a peep for Tristan.
>
> Malinda
Pamela Sorooshian
This is REALLY common. i know MANY teenagers who stay up most of the
night - especially those who play online games. My kids will stay up
later and later - and, yes, sometimes I get up in the morning and
they're still up - if they don't have a reason to get up early. But,
these days, they also usually plan ahead and go to bed at least 8
hours before they know they need to get up. It has taken some trial
and error - sometimes getting too tired and being cranky the next
day, etc. But it is VERY normal for teens to not feel sleepy at
nightl, just when younger and older people are starting wind down,
they're revving up.
It can be hard for parents not to see it as a moral failing of some
kind. But it isn't - it is biologically natural.
-pam
night - especially those who play online games. My kids will stay up
later and later - and, yes, sometimes I get up in the morning and
they're still up - if they don't have a reason to get up early. But,
these days, they also usually plan ahead and go to bed at least 8
hours before they know they need to get up. It has taken some trial
and error - sometimes getting too tired and being cranky the next
day, etc. But it is VERY normal for teens to not feel sleepy at
nightl, just when younger and older people are starting wind down,
they're revving up.
It can be hard for parents not to see it as a moral failing of some
kind. But it isn't - it is biologically natural.
-pam
On Dec 15, 2005, at 1:54 PM, camden wrote:
> I'm not sure how much help this will be but I have a 14 yr old who
> doesnt go
> to sleep until 1am -3 am.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
Actually, if it weren't for my DH, my DD wouldn't have a bedtime.
(Unschooling is very new for us... he's not really up on the whole thing...
I've just got to give it more time with him)... but anyway, it doesn't
bother me at all to have my dd (9) stay up late. I work nights (10pm-6am)
and having her stay up late works better for me anyway... that way she's not
awake at 9am, and I may not get up until noon or a bit later.
I wouldn't stress too much about it. He may be doing this because of his
new found freedom and he'll eventually get into a sleep routine that is in
sync with his internal clock.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: camden
Date: 12/15/05 17:52:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
I'm not sure how much help this will be but I have a 14 yr old who doesnt go
to sleep until 1am -3 am. I used to get him up in the morning ( before
unschooling came into our lives) & he was a grouch ALL day. Even though I
got him up, he would still stay up till around 2 or 3 am. He just can't go
to sleep at an "early" hour.
Now that we let go of the control, he has the choice of going to sleep
early, staying up late, sleeping late, or getting up early....... our house
is a much happier house !! When there is something he wants to do (like
hunting with dad) he'll try & get to sleep by midnight so he can get up at
5am. So when he wants or needs to he chooses to get up. There are days we
go shopping & if he wants to go spend money he has to get up when we do but
its his choice. If he chooses not to get up, we go ahead & go without him.
But that doesnt happen very often he likes spending money too much :)
Mine was asleep till noon today also. Its also winter & we all tend to
sleep longer in the morning during these dark months. I'll be interested to
see if mine has the same sleep pattern come spring.
Carol
(Unschooling is very new for us... he's not really up on the whole thing...
I've just got to give it more time with him)... but anyway, it doesn't
bother me at all to have my dd (9) stay up late. I work nights (10pm-6am)
and having her stay up late works better for me anyway... that way she's not
awake at 9am, and I may not get up until noon or a bit later.
I wouldn't stress too much about it. He may be doing this because of his
new found freedom and he'll eventually get into a sleep routine that is in
sync with his internal clock.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: camden
Date: 12/15/05 17:52:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
I'm not sure how much help this will be but I have a 14 yr old who doesnt go
to sleep until 1am -3 am. I used to get him up in the morning ( before
unschooling came into our lives) & he was a grouch ALL day. Even though I
got him up, he would still stay up till around 2 or 3 am. He just can't go
to sleep at an "early" hour.
Now that we let go of the control, he has the choice of going to sleep
early, staying up late, sleeping late, or getting up early....... our house
is a much happier house !! When there is something he wants to do (like
hunting with dad) he'll try & get to sleep by midnight so he can get up at
5am. So when he wants or needs to he chooses to get up. There are days we
go shopping & if he wants to go spend money he has to get up when we do but
its his choice. If he chooses not to get up, we go ahead & go without him.
But that doesnt happen very often he likes spending money too much :)
Mine was asleep till noon today also. Its also winter & we all tend to
sleep longer in the morning during these dark months. I'll be interested to
see if mine has the same sleep pattern come spring.
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malinda Mills" <saprswife@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:09 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
> I've had something come up at our home, and I was hoping y'all could give
> me some insight.
>
> My question/concern is about sleep (or the lack there of). Before I
> pulled Tristan from school, he had problems sleeping every night. Once in
> bed (and we had to have a set bedtime to make sure he had adequate sleep
> for the next school day) he would claim that "I know I won't be able to
> sleep" "I'll just feel awful in the morning" "I don't know why I'm trying
> to sleep 'cause it just won't work!" I would be understanding, since I
> have dealt with my own sleep problems for a number of years. We'd talk in
> his darkened room, play quiet music that he liked, try to get him to relax
> and not focus on whether he could/could not sleep, etc. He was so
> stressed out about school, that he would run the day's events in his head
> over and over again and was unable to fall asleep. Or so I thought.
>
> Now that we are unschooling (well, deschooling right now), I thought that
> his sleep problem would disappear. Not so. I decided to lift the bedtime
> restriction, and he has been going to bed late - between 1:30 and 3:00AM
> and then sleeping until about 11AM. I'm a nightowl, but even this is
> pushing it for me so I'll head to bed and allow him to stay up as long as
> it is quiet (he can watch a movie downstairs, read, play quietly, etc.).
>
> Last night Tristan asked to get on the computer, and I allowed that. I
> found him still awake at 4AM this morning and going strong. I had him shut
> down the computer and go to bed (probably a mistake). I think the
> computer was a little TOO engaging.
>
> I'm just wondering....is this most likely just a phase? A newfound
> freedom that he is exploring? I can see it easily developing into a
> habit, however. If someone doesn't wake up until one in the afternoon,
> they most likely will not be tired when midnight rolls around.
>
> Although I want to lift any bedtime restrictions, I'm unsure about him
> sleeping all day (well, into the afternoon) and then staying up the
> majority of the night. My concern is that we do, at times, have
> commitments in the mornings. He's 9 and not yet at an age where I can
> leave him home alone. I was also hoping to get him involved with a local
> homeschooling group, but some of their activities are in the morning...not
> conducive to a child who is getting to bed in the wee hours of the
> morning.
>
> Right now it's noon, and I haven't heard a peep for Tristan.
>
> Malinda
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nrskay
Melinda:
I just went through this with my 11 yo dd. We started deschooling in
April. There is light in the end of the tunnel.
Many times she would stay up till 3 - 4am and not get up before noon.
It's part of deschooling, they want to control their bed time, wake up
time, what they eat - everything.
Needless to say our social life slowed down a bit, but it was worth
the wait. She goes to bed when she is tired and gets up when she is
ready. Now, she goes to bed between 11 - 12 and gets up around 9 -
10am. If we have something that we are doing the next day and she
really wants to go, she gets to bed early and gets herself up.
I've also learned not to schedule things before 10 - 11 am. My dd is
a night owl and like to sleep in.
Hang in there it will change - he will get intuned to his body and set
a regular schedule - be patient - it works.
Kay
I just went through this with my 11 yo dd. We started deschooling in
April. There is light in the end of the tunnel.
Many times she would stay up till 3 - 4am and not get up before noon.
It's part of deschooling, they want to control their bed time, wake up
time, what they eat - everything.
Needless to say our social life slowed down a bit, but it was worth
the wait. She goes to bed when she is tired and gets up when she is
ready. Now, she goes to bed between 11 - 12 and gets up around 9 -
10am. If we have something that we are doing the next day and she
really wants to go, she gets to bed early and gets herself up.
I've also learned not to schedule things before 10 - 11 am. My dd is
a night owl and like to sleep in.
Hang in there it will change - he will get intuned to his body and set
a regular schedule - be patient - it works.
Kay
Malinda Mills
It's good to know others (MANY others) go through this, Kay. :o)
I'm not a morning person at all, so there is a large part of me that really does like that he sleeps in -- it gives me a chance to sleep in as well. *grin* I think I hated school days even more than Tristan did when it came to getting up early. We were both such grumps every morning.
Because of school, I became so used to scheduling things first thing in the morning because that was the most convenient time -- at the time. I guess times have changed, however!
Malinda
I'm not a morning person at all, so there is a large part of me that really does like that he sleeps in -- it gives me a chance to sleep in as well. *grin* I think I hated school days even more than Tristan did when it came to getting up early. We were both such grumps every morning.
Because of school, I became so used to scheduling things first thing in the morning because that was the most convenient time -- at the time. I guess times have changed, however!
Malinda
----- Original Message -----
From: nrskay
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 7:04 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Sleep
I just went through this with my 11 yo dd. We started deschooling in
April. There is light in the end of the tunnel.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Malinda Mills
Lesa, I'm not sure how my DH will react to T's lack of bedtime. Right now he is in Iraq and hasn't been probably introduced to unschooling*. With them being so similar, however, I can see DH embracing it. Tristan seems to have inherited his love of gaming all night on the computer from his dad. *grin*
Malinda
(*DH is all for homeschooling, but we haven't gotten into the nitty gritty details of UNschooling. He has enough on his plate without me sending him websites and such to read and digest. :o) )
Malinda
(*DH is all for homeschooling, but we haven't gotten into the nitty gritty details of UNschooling. He has enough on his plate without me sending him websites and such to read and digest. :o) )
----- Original Message -----
From: Lesa McMahon-Lowe
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
Actually, if it weren't for my DH, my DD wouldn't have a bedtime.
(Unschooling is very new for us... he's not really up on the whole thing...
I've just got to give it more time with him)... but anyway, it doesn't
bother me at all to have my dd (9) stay up late. I work nights (10pm-6am)
and having her stay up late works better for me anyway... that way she's not
awake at 9am, and I may not get up until noon or a bit later.
I wouldn't stress too much about it. He may be doing this because of his
new found freedom and he'll eventually get into a sleep routine that is in
sync with his internal clock.
Lesa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
homeschoolcrew6
With all this talk about sleeping , I thought I would chime in as well.
What about when you have more then one age in one family? DO you think
its wise to let say a 2-3 yo stay up with the 8-9 yo? I know with our
family that the 3yo is ready for bed alot soonner then the 8yo but
doesnt want to go to bed becuase the 8yo is still up and she doesnt
want to miss anything...but she gets more and more cranky...where as if
I take her up say at 8 and lay with her and read her stories , shes out
by 8:30..if I keep her up and dont unwind with her she stays up yes,
but the whole house is a house of TANTRUM...LOL...hey that almost
sounds like a horror flick.
Thoughts?
P
What about when you have more then one age in one family? DO you think
its wise to let say a 2-3 yo stay up with the 8-9 yo? I know with our
family that the 3yo is ready for bed alot soonner then the 8yo but
doesnt want to go to bed becuase the 8yo is still up and she doesnt
want to miss anything...but she gets more and more cranky...where as if
I take her up say at 8 and lay with her and read her stories , shes out
by 8:30..if I keep her up and dont unwind with her she stays up yes,
but the whole house is a house of TANTRUM...LOL...hey that almost
sounds like a horror flick.
Thoughts?
P
[email protected]
Hi Malinda,
My first question would be "Does Tristan WANT to go to those activities?"
My second would be "Are activities the real reason you would like Tristan on a more traditional sleep pattern?"
My kids do go to bed somewhere between 9 and 11 at night. The kids have lots of animals for 4-H projects and they need to be fed and cared for before we can go do whatever we have planned for the day. It was a decision that we all agreed on prior to getting the animals.
I do have to say though that prior to that, when the kids were all on different sleeping schedules, I missed them. I felt strung out, not close, like I didn't see them enough even though we all live in the same house. The kids haven't talked about it but I do strongly prefer that we live on somewhat the same schedule just because I like them <grin>.
That being said, if they got rid of the animals and wanted to stay up all night, I'm sure that is what we would do.
Julie S.
My first question would be "Does Tristan WANT to go to those activities?"
My second would be "Are activities the real reason you would like Tristan on a more traditional sleep pattern?"
My kids do go to bed somewhere between 9 and 11 at night. The kids have lots of animals for 4-H projects and they need to be fed and cared for before we can go do whatever we have planned for the day. It was a decision that we all agreed on prior to getting the animals.
I do have to say though that prior to that, when the kids were all on different sleeping schedules, I missed them. I felt strung out, not close, like I didn't see them enough even though we all live in the same house. The kids haven't talked about it but I do strongly prefer that we live on somewhat the same schedule just because I like them <grin>.
That being said, if they got rid of the animals and wanted to stay up all night, I'm sure that is what we would do.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Malinda Mills <saprswife@...>
Date: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:09 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
> I've had something come up at our home, and I was hoping y'all
> could give me some insight.
>
> My question/concern is about sleep (or the lack there of). Before
> I pulled Tristan from school, he had problems sleeping every
> night. Once in bed (and we had to have a set bedtime to make sure
> he had adequate sleep for the next school day) he would claim that
> "I know I won't be able to sleep" "I'll just feel awful in the
> morning" "I don't know why I'm trying to sleep 'cause it just
> won't work!" I would be understanding, since I have dealt with my
> own sleep problems for a number of years. We'd talk in his
> darkened room, play quiet music that he liked, try to get him to
> relax and not focus on whether he could/could not sleep, etc. He
> was so stressed out about school, that he would run the day's
> events in his head over and over again and was unable to fall
> asleep. Or so I thought.
>
> Now that we are unschooling (well, deschooling right now), I
> thought that his sleep problem would disappear. Not so. I
> decided to lift the bedtime restriction, and he has been going to
> bed late - between 1:30 and 3:00AM and then sleeping until about
> 11AM. I'm a nightowl, but even this is pushing it for me so I'll
> head to bed and allow him to stay up as long as it is quiet (he
> can watch a movie downstairs, read, play quietly, etc.).
>
> Last night Tristan asked to get on the computer, and I allowed
> that. I found him still awake at 4AM this morning and going
> strong. I had him shut down the computer and go to bed (probably
> a mistake). I think the computer was a little TOO engaging.
>
> I'm just wondering....is this most likely just a phase? A
> newfound freedom that he is exploring? I can see it easily
> developing into a habit, however. If someone doesn't wake up
> until one in the afternoon, they most likely will not be tired
> when midnight rolls around.
>
> Although I want to lift any bedtime restrictions, I'm unsure about
> him sleeping all day (well, into the afternoon) and then staying
> up the majority of the night. My concern is that we do, at times,
> have commitments in the mornings. He's 9 and not yet at an age
> where I can leave him home alone. I was also hoping to get him
> involved with a local homeschooling group, but some of their
> activities are in the morning...not conducive to a child who is
> getting to bed in the wee hours of the morning.
>
> Right now it's noon, and I haven't heard a peep for Tristan.
>
> Malinda
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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Pamela Sorooshian
I sense a misunderstanding of this idea of "no bedtimes."
Helping a 3 year old settle down and get to sleep when she is sleepy
IS what we're talking about when we say, "no bedtimes."
You wouldn't keep her up later just because it isn't bedtime yet and
you wouldn't send her off to bed earlier just because it is bedtime now.
You'd pay attention to her sleepiness and help her recognize that
she's sleepy and help her get to sleep. Not based on the clock, based
on the reality of her state of being.
There were times I asked older kids to quiet down, let me lower the
lights, put on a very-familiar movie, so that the youngest would be
able to relax and not be trying so hard to keep herself up. She'd
just fall asleep on the couch - I'd put a blanket over her and she'd
sleep there. But usually when I saw her sleepiness signs, I took the
younger one into another room and I'd read or sing to her.
My youngest sometimes said, "NO, I know I'll fall asleep but I don't
want to." I'd ask her to come and let me read 2 stories or sing 2
songs or something. Once I got her out of the commotion of the rest
of the family, she'd usually get settled down and enjoy her time with
me. But, yeah, sometimes she'd get back up and sometimes she'd get
over-tired and be cranky. Learning experiences.
-pam
Helping a 3 year old settle down and get to sleep when she is sleepy
IS what we're talking about when we say, "no bedtimes."
You wouldn't keep her up later just because it isn't bedtime yet and
you wouldn't send her off to bed earlier just because it is bedtime now.
You'd pay attention to her sleepiness and help her recognize that
she's sleepy and help her get to sleep. Not based on the clock, based
on the reality of her state of being.
There were times I asked older kids to quiet down, let me lower the
lights, put on a very-familiar movie, so that the youngest would be
able to relax and not be trying so hard to keep herself up. She'd
just fall asleep on the couch - I'd put a blanket over her and she'd
sleep there. But usually when I saw her sleepiness signs, I took the
younger one into another room and I'd read or sing to her.
My youngest sometimes said, "NO, I know I'll fall asleep but I don't
want to." I'd ask her to come and let me read 2 stories or sing 2
songs or something. Once I got her out of the commotion of the rest
of the family, she'd usually get settled down and enjoy her time with
me. But, yeah, sometimes she'd get back up and sometimes she'd get
over-tired and be cranky. Learning experiences.
-pam
Rod Thomas
Some here would suggest you feed the animals yourself.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
jnjstau@...
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
Hi Malinda,
My first question would be "Does Tristan WANT to go to those
activities?"
My second would be "Are activities the real reason you would like
Tristan on a more traditional sleep pattern?"
My kids do go to bed somewhere between 9 and 11 at night. The kids have
lots of animals for 4-H projects and they need to be fed and cared for
before we can go do whatever we have planned for the day. It was a
decision that we all agreed on prior to getting the animals.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
jnjstau@...
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
Hi Malinda,
My first question would be "Does Tristan WANT to go to those
activities?"
My second would be "Are activities the real reason you would like
Tristan on a more traditional sleep pattern?"
My kids do go to bed somewhere between 9 and 11 at night. The kids have
lots of animals for 4-H projects and they need to be fed and cared for
before we can go do whatever we have planned for the day. It was a
decision that we all agreed on prior to getting the animals.
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:59:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
saprswife@... writes:
I'm not a morning person at all, so there is a large part of me that really
does like that he sleeps in -- it gives me a chance to sleep in as well.
*grin* I think I hated school days even more than Tristan did when it came to
getting up early. We were both such grumps every morning.
~~~~~~~~~~
LOL... my DH had the nerve to suggest sending our middle child to school
because he thought she "needed" it... Now, she's a very headstrong kiddo, and so
I told him there was NO WAY IN HECK that I was going to get up early every
morning to fight with her about getting dressed, getting ready, and getting her
out the door on time. and dragging the other 2 with me. She'd HAVE to go on
the bus, since we only have one vehicle at the moment, and I do NOT want
that. Well, he hasn't brought that up in a long time...
She gets up early. But, she's pretty good about not being too loud. She'll
get a juice box, granola bar or cereal and sit down and watch Disney or Nickjr.
Or, she'll come snuggle with me and the puppy. I wish we had a TV in our
room again... I used to have all 3 kids and the cats in bed, all snuggling in
various stages of rest/sleep until late morning. I loved it.
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
saprswife@... writes:
I'm not a morning person at all, so there is a large part of me that really
does like that he sleeps in -- it gives me a chance to sleep in as well.
*grin* I think I hated school days even more than Tristan did when it came to
getting up early. We were both such grumps every morning.
~~~~~~~~~~
LOL... my DH had the nerve to suggest sending our middle child to school
because he thought she "needed" it... Now, she's a very headstrong kiddo, and so
I told him there was NO WAY IN HECK that I was going to get up early every
morning to fight with her about getting dressed, getting ready, and getting her
out the door on time. and dragging the other 2 with me. She'd HAVE to go on
the bus, since we only have one vehicle at the moment, and I do NOT want
that. Well, he hasn't brought that up in a long time...
She gets up early. But, she's pretty good about not being too loud. She'll
get a juice box, granola bar or cereal and sit down and watch Disney or Nickjr.
Or, she'll come snuggle with me and the puppy. I wish we had a TV in our
room again... I used to have all 3 kids and the cats in bed, all snuggling in
various stages of rest/sleep until late morning. I loved it.
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/2005 9:52:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
homeschoolcrew6@... writes:
What about when you have more then one age in one family? DO you think
its wise to let say a 2-3 yo stay up with the 8-9 yo?
~~~~~~~~~~
Well, in our family, the 4 year old goes to bed anywhere between 7-9. She
starts picking fights with her brother when she gets tired. We take her in, get
her in bed, sing her Hush Little Baby (my kids HAVE to have this sung...) and
tuck her in. She is allowed her books, a few toys and whatnot, and her light
on. She's usually out within 15-30 mins.
Our oldest (6), likes to play video games, unless I have shows on I like to
watch. He always asks. If I do have something I want to watch, he'll play with
his toys. Or watch. He sat on my lap and watched The Apprentice finale the
other night, and he gave me a "manicure" lol... On nights he plays video
games, he plays until 9 or 10 and then will veg out in the chair and watch Food
TV. He loves watching Alton Brown's Good Eats. Or the competition shows. They
had a cool holiday cake one the other night. He will usually say he's tired
around 11 and ask to go to bed, which involves one of us tucking him in and
singing to him too. Some nights, he'll go in early and read or play with a few
toys in bed.
The baby (1), she sleeps when she sleeps. Usually she's down for the night
about 10 or 11. Depends on when she napped during the day. It's almost 5 now
and she's stirring a bit from her nap. So, I'm guessing she'll sleep around 11
tonight.
We don't usually go many places in the mornings. We only have one vehicle
and DH works, so things are scheduled around him. Sleep is never much of an
issue here. DH is a little harder to convince of that. LOL
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
homeschoolcrew6@... writes:
What about when you have more then one age in one family? DO you think
its wise to let say a 2-3 yo stay up with the 8-9 yo?
~~~~~~~~~~
Well, in our family, the 4 year old goes to bed anywhere between 7-9. She
starts picking fights with her brother when she gets tired. We take her in, get
her in bed, sing her Hush Little Baby (my kids HAVE to have this sung...) and
tuck her in. She is allowed her books, a few toys and whatnot, and her light
on. She's usually out within 15-30 mins.
Our oldest (6), likes to play video games, unless I have shows on I like to
watch. He always asks. If I do have something I want to watch, he'll play with
his toys. Or watch. He sat on my lap and watched The Apprentice finale the
other night, and he gave me a "manicure" lol... On nights he plays video
games, he plays until 9 or 10 and then will veg out in the chair and watch Food
TV. He loves watching Alton Brown's Good Eats. Or the competition shows. They
had a cool holiday cake one the other night. He will usually say he's tired
around 11 and ask to go to bed, which involves one of us tucking him in and
singing to him too. Some nights, he'll go in early and read or play with a few
toys in bed.
The baby (1), she sleeps when she sleeps. Usually she's down for the night
about 10 or 11. Depends on when she napped during the day. It's almost 5 now
and she's stirring a bit from her nap. So, I'm guessing she'll sleep around 11
tonight.
We don't usually go many places in the mornings. We only have one vehicle
and DH works, so things are scheduled around him. Sleep is never much of an
issue here. DH is a little harder to convince of that. LOL
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
averyschmidt
> The kids haven't talked about it but I do strongly prefer that welive on somewhat the same schedule just because I like them
My oldest goes to bed around 2 or 3am and usually sleeps until at
least noon. My middle guy, the earliest bird in the family, is
usually asleep by 10:30 and up, showered and dressed well before
nine. My youngest and I usually read in bed somewhere between 10 and
11, and he either falls asleep then or gets back up and crashes
wherever we are, but almost always before midnight. He wakes up
between 10am and noon depending on what time he fell asleep. I'm
usually up until at least midnight, sometimes 1am, and get up between
8 and 9am.
Even with the wide variety of sleep patterns in our family, we still
share a minimum of ten hours a day that every one of us is awake
(between 12pm and 10pm). I actually enjoy the fact that my children's
waking hours vary because it makes one on one time easier to come by-
my early bird and I often share fruit smoothies and books together on
the couch before anyone else is up in the morning. My oldest, who
burns the candle at the other end, has his most heartfelt talks with
me after midnight when his brothers are asleep. If I had not been
open to varying sleep schedules among my children I would have missed
out on some very special private moments with each of them over the
years.
Patti
[email protected]
<<...I would have missed out on some very special private moments...>>
Oh, I agree. There were definite good things about the kids sleeping various schedules and if they expressed a desire, we would go back. Me, personally, I like us being more in sync.
Julie S.
Oh, I agree. There were definite good things about the kids sleeping various schedules and if they expressed a desire, we would go back. Me, personally, I like us being more in sync.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: averyschmidt <patti.schmidt2@...>
Date: Saturday, December 17, 2005 4:32 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Sleep
> > The kids haven't talked about it but I do strongly prefer that
> we
> live on somewhat the same schedule just because I like them
>
> My oldest goes to bed around 2 or 3am and usually sleeps until at
> least noon. My middle guy, the earliest bird in the family, is
> usually asleep by 10:30 and up, showered and dressed well before
> nine. My youngest and I usually read in bed somewhere between 10
> and
> 11, and he either falls asleep then or gets back up and crashes
> wherever we are, but almost always before midnight. He wakes up
> between 10am and noon depending on what time he fell asleep. I'm
> usually up until at least midnight, sometimes 1am, and get up
> between
> 8 and 9am.
>
> Even with the wide variety of sleep patterns in our family, we
> still
> share a minimum of ten hours a day that every one of us is awake
> (between 12pm and 10pm). I actually enjoy the fact that my
> children's
> waking hours vary because it makes one on one time easier to come
> by-
> my early bird and I often share fruit smoothies and books together
> on
> the couch before anyone else is up in the morning. My oldest, who
> burns the candle at the other end, has his most heartfelt talks
> with
> me after midnight when his brothers are asleep. If I had not been
> open to varying sleep schedules among my children I would have
> missed
> out on some very special private moments with each of them over
> the
> years.
>
> Patti
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and help stop AIDS now.
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
averyschmidt
> <<...I would have missed out on some very special privatemoments...>>
> Oh, I agree. There were definite good things about the kidssleeping various schedules and if they expressed a desire, we would go
back.
The thing is, my kids didn't "express a desire" to sleep on various
schedules- they sleep according to their bodies cues and their
personal preferences. Private moments are just a nice side effect (as
opposed to being the main point) of their naturally differing sleep
cycles.
Patti
Ren Allen
"The thing is, my kids didn't "express a desire" to sleep on various
schedules- they sleep according to their bodies cues and their
personal preferences."
Same here. My kids have never said "I want to stay up later" because
there is no border or line laid down by me. The only limit in life, is
my energy.:) And the two young ones like to lay down with me when I'm
tired, so that's sometimes a bit before they would...not often though,
since I'm a major night owl.
I don't know how kids would express a desire to change their sleep
pattern in an unschooling family, other than NOT sleeping, or not
getting up when everyone else does.
Ren
schedules- they sleep according to their bodies cues and their
personal preferences."
Same here. My kids have never said "I want to stay up later" because
there is no border or line laid down by me. The only limit in life, is
my energy.:) And the two young ones like to lay down with me when I'm
tired, so that's sometimes a bit before they would...not often though,
since I'm a major night owl.
I don't know how kids would express a desire to change their sleep
pattern in an unschooling family, other than NOT sleeping, or not
getting up when everyone else does.
Ren
Malinda Mills
Hi Julie!
Your questions really got me to thinking.
<My first question would be "Does Tristan WANT to go to those activities?">
Tristan is a very social kid -- loves people (kids and adults alike) and really any sort of activity that will allow him to be around them. That said, I'm wondering if I'm trying to rush us into things (Tristan's only been out of school for a few weeks)? I think a part of me is afraid he'll want to go back to school, despite all the problems he had, just to be with the kids. Plus, I can't but think that maybe I'm buckling under the pressure that my parents are putting on me to make sure Tristan is "properly" socialized since he is now homeschooled. They seem to think he is going to become some antisocial deviant since he isn't bombarded by kids at school all day every day -- for better or worse...usually worse, in Tristan's case.
<<"Are activities the real reason you would like Tristan on a more traditional sleep pattern?">>
I don't think so. IF there were activities that were extremely important to him (like your kids' 4-H projects) I would hope that he would see that his sleep would need to be adjusted in order to keep up with his activities. I let Tristan determine which activities he would like to pursue, as I would never force him into any activities.
I don't know if it's so much that I would like him on a more traditional sleep pattern, rather than me seeing it as being so out of the norm for him and others his age. Not that we have to follow the crowd when it comes to "proper" bedtimes!
As much as I love the whole concept and thought behind an unschooling lifestyle, parts of it are hard to apply when you have been raised differently all your life. My parents were so controlling (and still try to be at times), and it's hard to break free from certain mindsets.
I think a little bit of worry is also creeping in because my parents will be coming for Christmas. They are humoring me in regards to homeschooling (basically supporting my decision but want Tristan "mainstreamed" back into school ASAP) but would be totally and utterly against the idea of unschooling. I can see just an incredibly unhappy visit on the horizon.
Malinda
Your questions really got me to thinking.
<My first question would be "Does Tristan WANT to go to those activities?">
Tristan is a very social kid -- loves people (kids and adults alike) and really any sort of activity that will allow him to be around them. That said, I'm wondering if I'm trying to rush us into things (Tristan's only been out of school for a few weeks)? I think a part of me is afraid he'll want to go back to school, despite all the problems he had, just to be with the kids. Plus, I can't but think that maybe I'm buckling under the pressure that my parents are putting on me to make sure Tristan is "properly" socialized since he is now homeschooled. They seem to think he is going to become some antisocial deviant since he isn't bombarded by kids at school all day every day -- for better or worse...usually worse, in Tristan's case.
<<"Are activities the real reason you would like Tristan on a more traditional sleep pattern?">>
I don't think so. IF there were activities that were extremely important to him (like your kids' 4-H projects) I would hope that he would see that his sleep would need to be adjusted in order to keep up with his activities. I let Tristan determine which activities he would like to pursue, as I would never force him into any activities.
I don't know if it's so much that I would like him on a more traditional sleep pattern, rather than me seeing it as being so out of the norm for him and others his age. Not that we have to follow the crowd when it comes to "proper" bedtimes!
As much as I love the whole concept and thought behind an unschooling lifestyle, parts of it are hard to apply when you have been raised differently all your life. My parents were so controlling (and still try to be at times), and it's hard to break free from certain mindsets.
I think a little bit of worry is also creeping in because my parents will be coming for Christmas. They are humoring me in regards to homeschooling (basically supporting my decision but want Tristan "mainstreamed" back into school ASAP) but would be totally and utterly against the idea of unschooling. I can see just an incredibly unhappy visit on the horizon.
Malinda
----- Original Message -----
From: jnjstau@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 4:35 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
Hi Malinda,
My first question would be "Does Tristan WANT to go to those activities?"
My second would be "Are activities the real reason you would like Tristan on a more traditional sleep pattern?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
Malinda,
***Tristan is a very social kid -- I think a part of me is afraid he'll want
to go back to school, despite all the problems he had, just to be with the
kids.***
My DD is very social, too. And she's loving being at home. We still do
plenty of other things... she actually much more well-rounded now because
gets involved with things with people of all ages.
***They seem to think he is going to become some antisocial deviant since he
isn't bombarded by kids at school all day every day -- for better or worse..
usually worse, in Tristan's case.***
I've found it to be the opposite... I believe kids have a higher percent of
being an "antisocial deviant" by being in school and being bombarded with
all of the junk from the other kids.
***IF there were activities that were extremely important to him (like your
kids' 4-H projects) I would hope that he would see that his sleep would need
to be adjusted in order to keep up with his activities.***
I just dropped my 9yo dd's bedtime and have just reminded her that when she
has things to do in the morning that it would be wise for her not to stay up
too late. She has to head to her room at about 10 - 10:30 pm. She can stay
up as late as she wants but she has to stick to her space. I really think
that it helps to wind down from the day and she gets sleepy on her own.
***I think a little bit of worry is also creeping in because my parents will
be coming for Christmas. They are humoring me in regards to homeschooling
(basically supporting my decision but want Tristan "mainstreamed" back into
school ASAP) but would be totally and utterly against the idea of
unschooling.***
Yes, I too has unsupportive family members. I just started unschooling
recently... it gradually just fell into place. And I've decided to keep it
to myself. It's really none of there "business" anyway. I'd suggest being
low-key about it. You don't "have to" answer all of there questions and I
wouldn't offer up anything on your own. "Homeschooling is going great!"...
that's what I say when I'm asked. It's the holiday season anyway... so if
asked, just mention that your taking a few weeks off to enjoy it... that may
be a good reason to seem so lax to them.
Lesa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***Tristan is a very social kid -- I think a part of me is afraid he'll want
to go back to school, despite all the problems he had, just to be with the
kids.***
My DD is very social, too. And she's loving being at home. We still do
plenty of other things... she actually much more well-rounded now because
gets involved with things with people of all ages.
***They seem to think he is going to become some antisocial deviant since he
isn't bombarded by kids at school all day every day -- for better or worse..
usually worse, in Tristan's case.***
I've found it to be the opposite... I believe kids have a higher percent of
being an "antisocial deviant" by being in school and being bombarded with
all of the junk from the other kids.
***IF there were activities that were extremely important to him (like your
kids' 4-H projects) I would hope that he would see that his sleep would need
to be adjusted in order to keep up with his activities.***
I just dropped my 9yo dd's bedtime and have just reminded her that when she
has things to do in the morning that it would be wise for her not to stay up
too late. She has to head to her room at about 10 - 10:30 pm. She can stay
up as late as she wants but she has to stick to her space. I really think
that it helps to wind down from the day and she gets sleepy on her own.
***I think a little bit of worry is also creeping in because my parents will
be coming for Christmas. They are humoring me in regards to homeschooling
(basically supporting my decision but want Tristan "mainstreamed" back into
school ASAP) but would be totally and utterly against the idea of
unschooling.***
Yes, I too has unsupportive family members. I just started unschooling
recently... it gradually just fell into place. And I've decided to keep it
to myself. It's really none of there "business" anyway. I'd suggest being
low-key about it. You don't "have to" answer all of there questions and I
wouldn't offer up anything on your own. "Homeschooling is going great!"...
that's what I say when I'm asked. It's the holiday season anyway... so if
asked, just mention that your taking a few weeks off to enjoy it... that may
be a good reason to seem so lax to them.
Lesa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/18/2005 2:44:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
saprswife@... writes:
I think a little bit of worry is also creeping in because my parents will be
coming for Christmas. They are humoring me in regards to homeschooling
(basically supporting my decision but want Tristan "mainstreamed" back into
school ASAP) but would be totally and utterly against the idea of unschooling. I
can see just an incredibly unhappy visit on the horizon.
~~~~~~~~~~
But he is YOUR child, not theirs. They may mean well, but, ultimately, it's
YOUR and your FAMILY's choice. I just wouldn't make it a big issue. Advice is
one thing, take it or leave it. There are some things with my parents that I
have made clear are not up for interpretation. Yes, I am still their child,
but I am an adult. They can't (and won't) "boss" me around. They were very
controlling when I was growing up. I am very headstrong and I WILL do things
they way I want, no matter what they think.
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
saprswife@... writes:
I think a little bit of worry is also creeping in because my parents will be
coming for Christmas. They are humoring me in regards to homeschooling
(basically supporting my decision but want Tristan "mainstreamed" back into
school ASAP) but would be totally and utterly against the idea of unschooling. I
can see just an incredibly unhappy visit on the horizon.
~~~~~~~~~~
But he is YOUR child, not theirs. They may mean well, but, ultimately, it's
YOUR and your FAMILY's choice. I just wouldn't make it a big issue. Advice is
one thing, take it or leave it. There are some things with my parents that I
have made clear are not up for interpretation. Yes, I am still their child,
but I am an adult. They can't (and won't) "boss" me around. They were very
controlling when I was growing up. I am very headstrong and I WILL do things
they way I want, no matter what they think.
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<The thing is, my kids didn't "express a desire" to sleep on various schedules--they sleep according to their bodies cues...>>
Which is exactly what we did until the kids wanted to add over 30 livestock animals for 4-H to our already busy lives. I wasn't interested in taking on that amount of work on myself so we talked about how we could handle it and make it work for ALL of us. Initially, I fed in the morning and the kids did the evenings but that was problematic due to sports practices in the evenings. So we talked about it and we decided that it would work better for the kids to feed in the mornings.
The kids chose to forgo their bodies cues on sleep to do something else they enjoy, no different than signing up for a morning class or going to a concert. If the kids decided they would rather sleep than raise the animals that is what we would do.
Julie S.
Which is exactly what we did until the kids wanted to add over 30 livestock animals for 4-H to our already busy lives. I wasn't interested in taking on that amount of work on myself so we talked about how we could handle it and make it work for ALL of us. Initially, I fed in the morning and the kids did the evenings but that was problematic due to sports practices in the evenings. So we talked about it and we decided that it would work better for the kids to feed in the mornings.
The kids chose to forgo their bodies cues on sleep to do something else they enjoy, no different than signing up for a morning class or going to a concert. If the kids decided they would rather sleep than raise the animals that is what we would do.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: averyschmidt <patti.schmidt2@...>
Date: Saturday, December 17, 2005 6:53 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Sleep
> > <<...I would have missed out on some very special private
> moments...>>
>
> > Oh, I agree. There were definite good things about the kids
> sleeping various schedules and if they expressed a desire, we
> would go
> back.
>
> The thing is, my kids didn't "express a desire" to sleep on
> various
> schedules- they sleep according to their bodies cues and their
> personal preferences. Private moments are just a nice side effect
> (as
> opposed to being the main point) of their naturally differing
> sleep
> cycles.
>
> Patti
>
>
>
>
>
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<<I don't know how kids would express a desire to change their sleep pattern in an unschooling family>>
By saying, "I don't want to get up to feed and clean stalls anymore, I'd rather sleep." or by saying "I don't want to get up to attend guitar lessons anymore, I'd rather sleep."
We were initially living quite "freeform" but the kids have wanted to add and add various activities to be able to do the things we all want, we have had to make agreements about how things would look, how they would work....no different than asking an older child to have the tv off for a while so a younger one can get to sleep, negotiating various needs and desires is a main aspect of unschooling.
Julie S.
By saying, "I don't want to get up to feed and clean stalls anymore, I'd rather sleep." or by saying "I don't want to get up to attend guitar lessons anymore, I'd rather sleep."
We were initially living quite "freeform" but the kids have wanted to add and add various activities to be able to do the things we all want, we have had to make agreements about how things would look, how they would work....no different than asking an older child to have the tv off for a while so a younger one can get to sleep, negotiating various needs and desires is a main aspect of unschooling.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
Date: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:07 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
> "The thing is, my kids didn't "express a desire" to sleep on various
> schedules- they sleep according to their bodies cues and their
> personal preferences."
>
> Same here. My kids have never said "I want to stay up later"
> because
> there is no border or line laid down by me. The only limit in
> life, is
> my energy.:) And the two young ones like to lay down with me when
> I'm
> tired, so that's sometimes a bit before they would...not often
> though,
> since I'm a major night owl.
> I don't know how kids would express a desire to change their sleep
> pattern in an unschooling family, other than NOT sleeping, or not
> getting up when everyone else does.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
>
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<<I just see an incredibly unhappy visit on the horizon.>>
I think you have your answer as to why his sleeping is bothering you so much.
Julie S.
I think you have your answer as to why his sleeping is bothering you so much.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Malinda Mills <saprswife@...>
Date: Sunday, December 18, 2005 1:36 am
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
> Hi Julie!
>
> Your questions really got me to thinking.
>
> <My first question would be "Does Tristan WANT to go to those
> activities?">
> Tristan is a very social kid -- loves people (kids and adults
> alike) and really any sort of activity that will allow him to be
> around them. That said, I'm wondering if I'm trying to rush us
> into things (Tristan's only been out of school for a few weeks)?
> I think a part of me is afraid he'll want to go back to school,
> despite all the problems he had, just to be with the kids. Plus,
> I can't but think that maybe I'm buckling under the pressure that
> my parents are putting on me to make sure Tristan is "properly"
> socialized since he is now homeschooled. They seem to think he is
> going to become some antisocial deviant since he isn't bombarded
> by kids at school all day every day -- for better or
> worse...usually worse, in Tristan's case.
>
>
> <<"Are activities the real reason you would like Tristan on a more
> traditional sleep pattern?">>
>
> I don't think so. IF there were activities that were extremely
> important to him (like your kids' 4-H projects) I would hope that
> he would see that his sleep would need to be adjusted in order to
> keep up with his activities. I let Tristan determine which
> activities he would like to pursue, as I would never force him
> into any activities.
>
> I don't know if it's so much that I would like him on a more
> traditional sleep pattern, rather than me seeing it as being so
> out of the norm for him and others his age. Not that we have to
> follow the crowd when it comes to "proper" bedtimes!
>
> As much as I love the whole concept and thought behind an
> unschooling lifestyle, parts of it are hard to apply when you have
> been raised differently all your life. My parents were so
> controlling (and still try to be at times), and it's hard to break
> free from certain mindsets.
>
> I think a little bit of worry is also creeping in because my
> parents will be coming for Christmas. They are humoring me in
> regards to homeschooling (basically supporting my decision but
> want Tristan "mainstreamed" back into school ASAP) but would be
> totally and utterly against the idea of unschooling. I can see
> just an incredibly unhappy visit on the horizon.
>
> Malinda
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jnjstau@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 4:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sleep
>
>
> Hi Malinda,
>
> My first question would be "Does Tristan WANT to go to those
> activities?"
> My second would be "Are activities the real reason you would
> like Tristan on a more traditional sleep pattern?"
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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averyschmidt
> By saying, "I don't want to get up to feed and clean stalls anymore,I'd rather sleep." or by saying "I don't want to get up to attend
guitar lessons anymore, I'd rather sleep."
This may be a really stupid question (I've never raised livestock),
but could the feeding and cleaning of stalls be moved to a later time
in the same way guitar lessons could be moved to a later time? Is
there a reason why the animals can only be fed early in the morning?
Patti
[email protected]
<<Is there a reason the animals can only be fed early in the morning?>>
Good question. Actually there are a few reasons. We raise dairy goats so they must be fed and milked on a schedule, within an hour or so of the same time twice per day, otherwise their milk production drops way off and they can even dry up on you. For animals to grow fastest (which is what you want for competitions), they really need to be fed about 12 hours apart, hence in the morning and in the evening.
Problem comes in with my older daughter's competitive gymnastics....she has to be at the gym by 3:00 everyday....coupled with the fact that we live about an hour drive from anything we might want to do. So even with getting up around 7:30am, we can't get everything fed (including us) and dressed until around 9:30 or 10. With a 2 hour drive round trip and having to get back by 3:00, that gives us an entire 3 hours to go to the zoo, a movie, a picnic, whatever. The three older kids show animals and we agreed ahead of time that we needed to make sure that there was still time each day for the younger kids to do fun things too.
This was all discussed ahead of time when the kids wanted to get the animals and do competitions. We talked about the realities of time constraints, about it being a day in, day out kind of committment. And the kids know that all they have to do say "I'm out" and they are no longer committed. We could literally have the goats sold within a week. The animals take about 20 hours of work per week. That is why we had long talks ahead of time because I knew that there was no way I could make that kind of time committment alone. The kids had to either be in 100% or we couldn't do it.
My kids are perfectly happy with the arrangement and when there have been times that interest has seemed to lag, we have talked about whether we want to continue doing this or not. Usually, the lack of interest is very short lived and tied to a particular thing they might need to miss (validation (you don't get to pick the day and you must be there in order to go to any shows that year) on same weekend as spur of the moment sleep over so it comes down to picking between 2 things you enjoy).
Even so, we try to be as flexible as possible. Adriane went to a sleepover so I fed for her that morning. Marsie had a chance to see a friend she hadn't seen in a while so I made sure the goats had water and the baby chickens were warm (her usual contribution). They do the same for me if I ask them. They do the same for each other. Danny fed Marsie's rabbit this morning because she went to church with a friend.
Julie S.
Good question. Actually there are a few reasons. We raise dairy goats so they must be fed and milked on a schedule, within an hour or so of the same time twice per day, otherwise their milk production drops way off and they can even dry up on you. For animals to grow fastest (which is what you want for competitions), they really need to be fed about 12 hours apart, hence in the morning and in the evening.
Problem comes in with my older daughter's competitive gymnastics....she has to be at the gym by 3:00 everyday....coupled with the fact that we live about an hour drive from anything we might want to do. So even with getting up around 7:30am, we can't get everything fed (including us) and dressed until around 9:30 or 10. With a 2 hour drive round trip and having to get back by 3:00, that gives us an entire 3 hours to go to the zoo, a movie, a picnic, whatever. The three older kids show animals and we agreed ahead of time that we needed to make sure that there was still time each day for the younger kids to do fun things too.
This was all discussed ahead of time when the kids wanted to get the animals and do competitions. We talked about the realities of time constraints, about it being a day in, day out kind of committment. And the kids know that all they have to do say "I'm out" and they are no longer committed. We could literally have the goats sold within a week. The animals take about 20 hours of work per week. That is why we had long talks ahead of time because I knew that there was no way I could make that kind of time committment alone. The kids had to either be in 100% or we couldn't do it.
My kids are perfectly happy with the arrangement and when there have been times that interest has seemed to lag, we have talked about whether we want to continue doing this or not. Usually, the lack of interest is very short lived and tied to a particular thing they might need to miss (validation (you don't get to pick the day and you must be there in order to go to any shows that year) on same weekend as spur of the moment sleep over so it comes down to picking between 2 things you enjoy).
Even so, we try to be as flexible as possible. Adriane went to a sleepover so I fed for her that morning. Marsie had a chance to see a friend she hadn't seen in a while so I made sure the goats had water and the baby chickens were warm (her usual contribution). They do the same for me if I ask them. They do the same for each other. Danny fed Marsie's rabbit this morning because she went to church with a friend.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: averyschmidt <patti.schmidt2@...>
Date: Sunday, December 18, 2005 3:53 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Sleep
> > By saying, "I don't want to get up to feed and clean stalls
> anymore,
> I'd rather sleep." or by saying "I don't want to get up to attend
> guitar lessons anymore, I'd rather sleep."
>
> This may be a really stupid question (I've never raised
> livestock),
> but could the feeding and cleaning of stalls be moved to a later
> time
> in the same way guitar lessons could be moved to a later time? Is
> there a reason why the animals can only be fed early in the morning?
>
> Patti
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> Give at-risk students the materials they need to succeed at
> DonorsChoose.org!http://us.click.yahoo.com/iEagnA/LpQLAA/HwKMAA/0xXolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>