How do they learn responsibility WAS Intro and question
Mother Earth (Tyra)
I am seeing the theme of clean the room as a gift to the child. As a young person, I made a decision to help my children by not doing too much for them. My mother (God rest her soul) was a great mother. She washed our clothes, folded, them, ironed them, she always did so much for us. I never remember feeling gratitude because I thought that that was what mothers did because she always did so much for us. Once I got out on my own and realized what I had to do for myself was what my mother always did for a family of 5, I felt grateful and wondered why Mama never insisted that we do more for ourselves as we got older. My sons are 2 and 5 yrs, respectively. I have tried the clean up your room command, I have helped him clean his room and I will clean the room when I can't stand it, because they don't complain about the messiness. But, at some point, I want my children to value having the ability to clean and to actually self-initiate cleaning. Partly because of my experience as a child, but also because since having children, I have been disappointed that my husband does not feel moved to do more around the house considering that I have always done so much for the children. Also, I see how my father-in-law is and I don't want sons who think that house work is beneath them. I want them to understand that it is okay for men to clean because I want to them to do a better job of taking care of their wives when they get married and subsequently have children since that is something that is lacking in this culture. And let me end with saying that I know that I am totally operating from my stuff, but laziness in men cleaning around the house seems to be pervasive. I have not fully understood if it is nurture versus nature. If nurturing can help, then I want sons who are at least open to doing housework. At the very least I explain to my sons that I value a neat home so there are times when that is exactly what I am going to do in that moment. That way they at least have the example of a person who values picking up around the house every now and again. And while I am on a roll, I also feel that I have had to evolve into a person who knows how to clean. Being a child who went to school and whose parents valued education, I feel that I was not taught the value in cleaning your home although as a child I remembered noting that my mother valued a clean home. My parents emphasized academics and my personal interests outside the home. But, as I have evolved spiritually throughout the years, I feel that my value in a clean home has more to do with the gratitude that I have for my home.
This message is getting long and convoluted because I am trying to figure all of this out.
Working through my stuff.....
Tyra
This message is getting long and convoluted because I am trying to figure all of this out.
Working through my stuff.....
Tyra
----- Original Message -----
From: mfhickman@...
To: unschooling basics
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Intro and question
Hi,
I hear you want to help her, so how do you go about helping her clean her room without getting angry?
I suggest you give her the gift of a clean room.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<<< She washed our clothes, folded, them, ironed them, she always did so
much for us. I never remember feeling gratitude because I thought that that
was what mothers did because she always did so much for us. Once I got out
on my own and realized what I had to do for myself was what my mother always
did for a family of 5, I felt grateful and wondered why Mama never insisted
that we do more for ourselves as we got older. >>>>>
Well here is the logic of NOT insisting on your children cleaning working
perfectly.
You were given the gifts of a clean room and no expectations by your mother,
and NOW as an adult you *do* know how to clean; you *are* a tidy person who
takes responsibility for your home and enjoys doing so; you do now have
gratitude towards your mother. (I hope you had the chance to express it to
her before her demise.)
Perhaps the gratitude and the willingness to involve yourself in home
keeping would have come earlier in your youth if outside-the-home
activities, including school, had not been made the primary priorities - if
you were more present during the day to see it happening - but we can never
know.
I think it is wonderful that you get to be grateful to a mother who did all
of that without imbuing it with martyrdom and putting the sense of her
sacrifice on to you. Her home and giving to her children may truly have been
where she found her greatest joy.
About men - that continues to be a mystery to me. I know there are men who
are really willing about house stuff, but if they are like James, they still
wait to be asked, and have the mindset that they are "helping their wife"
with what is essentially her responsibility.
I have to say that I have surrendered to that concept, after feeling prickly
for many years. After all he willingly shoulders the income burden. Things
may change one day.
But the other side of it is, he doesn't get to complain too much if it isn't
exactly how he would like it done! And the cupboards are organized to my
specifications, not his. ;)
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005
much for us. I never remember feeling gratitude because I thought that that
was what mothers did because she always did so much for us. Once I got out
on my own and realized what I had to do for myself was what my mother always
did for a family of 5, I felt grateful and wondered why Mama never insisted
that we do more for ourselves as we got older. >>>>>
Well here is the logic of NOT insisting on your children cleaning working
perfectly.
You were given the gifts of a clean room and no expectations by your mother,
and NOW as an adult you *do* know how to clean; you *are* a tidy person who
takes responsibility for your home and enjoys doing so; you do now have
gratitude towards your mother. (I hope you had the chance to express it to
her before her demise.)
Perhaps the gratitude and the willingness to involve yourself in home
keeping would have come earlier in your youth if outside-the-home
activities, including school, had not been made the primary priorities - if
you were more present during the day to see it happening - but we can never
know.
I think it is wonderful that you get to be grateful to a mother who did all
of that without imbuing it with martyrdom and putting the sense of her
sacrifice on to you. Her home and giving to her children may truly have been
where she found her greatest joy.
About men - that continues to be a mystery to me. I know there are men who
are really willing about house stuff, but if they are like James, they still
wait to be asked, and have the mindset that they are "helping their wife"
with what is essentially her responsibility.
I have to say that I have surrendered to that concept, after feeling prickly
for many years. After all he willingly shoulders the income burden. Things
may change one day.
But the other side of it is, he doesn't get to complain too much if it isn't
exactly how he would like it done! And the cupboards are organized to my
specifications, not his. ;)
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005
Su Penn
I don't think kids will learn "everyone is my servant" if parents do
things like pick up after them from a spirit of generosity. Here's
how I think it might not turn into that kind of mindset:
1. Around the house, kids will see helping going in all directions. I
say to my partner, "David, it would really help me if you had a
minute to unload the dishwasher," and David says, "Oh, OK, I can do
that right after dinner." Or I say, "Let's get Daddy a special flavor
of ice cream. Won't that be a nice surprise for him?" and let my 4 yo
participate in choosing the flavor and springing the surprise. It's
not a one-way street with all help and support going towards the
kids; it's going in all directions and kids can jump in at will.
2. We also model respect for others when we are out and about. I have
a friend who loves to have kids visit, but doesn't like being left to
do all the picking up, so one of her rules is that kids who visit
help put toys away before they leave. We enjoy visiting this friend,
and my son helps pick up before we leave (so do I, although that's
one place where my friend and I differ--she wants the kids to do it
themselves, I like to work together). Whatever picking up he does, I
affirm, even if it's only 3 things to my 30 things. He's only 4, but
he knows perfectly well that there are all kinds of things we do at
our house, like jumping on the furniture, eating on the couch, and so
on, that most people don't allow in their homes.
3. We find other opportunities to help out. Just today, we stopped at
McDonald's for lunch. My toddler noticed a cup that had fallen on the
ground near our car ("uh-oh! Cup!"). My 4 yo said, "Carl is right.
There's a cup right there!" I said, "Someone must have dropped it. It
would be a helpful thing for us to pick it up and put it in the
trash." I thought I would pick it up, but Eric said, "OK!" and picked
it up, carried it into the restaurant, and put it in the trash.
This also models the idea that a person is NOT solely responsible for
her own things and her own messes. That's one of the lies we tell
kids: you made the mess, you clean it up. In real life, my friends
and I help each other clean up our messes all the time. Just ten days
ago, I discovered a mis-calculation in my finances (I had failed to
enter a purchase in my checkbook) and my friend Scott gave me the
money to cover the shortage until next payday so nothing bounced.
Eric probably didn't know all the ins and outs, but he saw Scott
handing me money and heard me say, "Thanks, Scott, that's a big
help." I figure stuff like that sinks in.
Su
things like pick up after them from a spirit of generosity. Here's
how I think it might not turn into that kind of mindset:
1. Around the house, kids will see helping going in all directions. I
say to my partner, "David, it would really help me if you had a
minute to unload the dishwasher," and David says, "Oh, OK, I can do
that right after dinner." Or I say, "Let's get Daddy a special flavor
of ice cream. Won't that be a nice surprise for him?" and let my 4 yo
participate in choosing the flavor and springing the surprise. It's
not a one-way street with all help and support going towards the
kids; it's going in all directions and kids can jump in at will.
2. We also model respect for others when we are out and about. I have
a friend who loves to have kids visit, but doesn't like being left to
do all the picking up, so one of her rules is that kids who visit
help put toys away before they leave. We enjoy visiting this friend,
and my son helps pick up before we leave (so do I, although that's
one place where my friend and I differ--she wants the kids to do it
themselves, I like to work together). Whatever picking up he does, I
affirm, even if it's only 3 things to my 30 things. He's only 4, but
he knows perfectly well that there are all kinds of things we do at
our house, like jumping on the furniture, eating on the couch, and so
on, that most people don't allow in their homes.
3. We find other opportunities to help out. Just today, we stopped at
McDonald's for lunch. My toddler noticed a cup that had fallen on the
ground near our car ("uh-oh! Cup!"). My 4 yo said, "Carl is right.
There's a cup right there!" I said, "Someone must have dropped it. It
would be a helpful thing for us to pick it up and put it in the
trash." I thought I would pick it up, but Eric said, "OK!" and picked
it up, carried it into the restaurant, and put it in the trash.
This also models the idea that a person is NOT solely responsible for
her own things and her own messes. That's one of the lies we tell
kids: you made the mess, you clean it up. In real life, my friends
and I help each other clean up our messes all the time. Just ten days
ago, I discovered a mis-calculation in my finances (I had failed to
enter a purchase in my checkbook) and my friend Scott gave me the
money to cover the shortage until next payday so nothing bounced.
Eric probably didn't know all the ins and outs, but he saw Scott
handing me money and heard me say, "Thanks, Scott, that's a big
help." I figure stuff like that sinks in.
Su
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 12, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Mother Earth ((Tyra)) wrote:
and decided she wouldn't do that to her kids.
So we didn't have any chores growing up :-) Then when we were teens
she'd get periodically mad and resentful that we didn't start
helping. And that confused me because she'd been doing it all on her
own for all those years and then now needed help? It didn't make
sense. **
I think the problem was that she didn't invite us to help. She
created a dividing line between her/adult world and my and my sisters
kid world. Her world was the household and ours was playing. It was,
in many ways, a great childhood because our job was to play and watch
TV and read and explore freely. Despite the fact that I went to
school I learned tons of stuff on my own (which helped me get
unschooling :-)
But I didn't really know my mom despite the fact that she was a stay
at home mom.
My daughter knows me a lot better :-) And we're very much a part of
each other's worlds.
** (Even now when people are doing things I assume they're doing them
because they want to and I have to stop and consciously think to
thank them. I think it *is* natural to assume -- especially for
children to assume -- that when adults are doing something, they're
doing it because they want to. And they *should* be! :-) So when
you're doing something, no matter how mad it's making you, no matter
how irritating it is, it's going to be confusing to your kids because
they *know* no one's making you. So they know if you're doing
something it's because you're choosing to! :-)
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> She washed our clothes, folded, them, ironed them, she always didMy mother did that too. She had been forced to do chores as a child
> so much for us. I never remember feeling gratitude because I
> thought that that was what mothers did because she always did so
> much for us.
and decided she wouldn't do that to her kids.
So we didn't have any chores growing up :-) Then when we were teens
she'd get periodically mad and resentful that we didn't start
helping. And that confused me because she'd been doing it all on her
own for all those years and then now needed help? It didn't make
sense. **
I think the problem was that she didn't invite us to help. She
created a dividing line between her/adult world and my and my sisters
kid world. Her world was the household and ours was playing. It was,
in many ways, a great childhood because our job was to play and watch
TV and read and explore freely. Despite the fact that I went to
school I learned tons of stuff on my own (which helped me get
unschooling :-)
But I didn't really know my mom despite the fact that she was a stay
at home mom.
My daughter knows me a lot better :-) And we're very much a part of
each other's worlds.
** (Even now when people are doing things I assume they're doing them
because they want to and I have to stop and consciously think to
thank them. I think it *is* natural to assume -- especially for
children to assume -- that when adults are doing something, they're
doing it because they want to. And they *should* be! :-) So when
you're doing something, no matter how mad it's making you, no matter
how irritating it is, it's going to be confusing to your kids because
they *know* no one's making you. So they know if you're doing
something it's because you're choosing to! :-)
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April
My sister and I 'had' to clean and cook at a young age. My mom was a single
working mom and it was just the way it was. I hate to clean and am not the
greatest housekeeper. My sister loves to clean (it's really fun for her) and
does it well. My kids are not "required" to clean, or cook, or do laundry.
Btu they all do their own laundry, they all know how to cook, they all can
clean just fine. Sometimes they clean up if it is messy and they have time,
or if they have company coming over. Almost always they will help if I need
help and ask. And at long last, they (usually) pick up after themselves and
their guests. But that is after years of me helping them do that as
children. Laundry they do because it is a help to me, but I will gladly
help them if they need or want something clean and don't have time to do
laundry. I think some of it is just personality. My daughter, Lisa, likes
things neat and tidy and will do lots to keep it that way. Though this does
not come naturally to me, I have tried to be better about it lately as it
matters to her. My oldest hates to clean the kitchen, but will gladly do
errands or extra laundry. My youngest used to love to clean bathrooms, he
would beg to do it. I would sprinkle in the cleaning stuff and let him go at
it. I would need to go in with a big towel and wipe the room down, but it
was clean and he loved doing it. He will still clean bathrooms and he's not
quite as wet when he is done anymore.
When it comes to messy rooms, even before embracing unschooling I never made
the kids clean their rooms. I would work with them when they wanted it clean
or surprise them. Lisa's room was usually clean, Kate's was the proverbial 2
feet deep room. Fast forward to now and both keep their rooms spotless.
Much cleaner than mine. They didn't need me to make them do it all their
lives to want a clean room and have the ability to keep it that way. In
fact, they keep their rooms much cleaner than most of their friends who were
forced to clean their rooms all those years.
As far as the expectation of having things done for them, that is all about
modeling. Being 'made' to do chores and such will not create a grateful,
responsible child. Nor will it create a child that desires orderliness.
This comes by a child seeing a parent joyfully and freely giving to and
doing for others, including their children. It comes from seeing parents
helping each other out. It comes from kids being a part of their parent's
world. And I'm convinced that some of it is just genetics!
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mother Earth (Tyra)
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] How do they learn responsibility WAS Intro and
question
I am seeing the theme of clean the room as a gift to the child. As a young
person, I made a decision to help my children by not doing too much for
them. My mother (God rest her soul) was a great mother. She washed our
clothes, folded, them, ironed them, she always did so much for us. I never
remember feeling gratitude because I thought that that was what mothers did
because she always did so much for us. Once I got out on my own and
realized what I had to do for myself was what my mother always did for a
family of 5, I felt grateful and wondered why Mama never insisted that we do
more for ourselves as we got older. My sons are 2 and 5 yrs, respectively.
I have tried the clean up your room command, I have helped him clean his
room and I will clean the room when I can't stand it, because they don't
complain about the messiness. But, at some point, I want my children to
value having the ability to clean and to actually self-initiate cleaning.
Partly because of my experience as a child, but also because since having
children, I have been disappointed that my husband does not feel moved to do
more around the house considering that I have always done so much for the
children. Also, I see how my father-in-law is and I don't want sons who
think that house work is beneath them. I want them to understand that it is
okay for men to clean because I want to them to do a better job of taking
care of their wives when they get married and subsequently have children
since that is something that is lacking in this culture. And let me end
with saying that I know that I am totally operating from my stuff, but
laziness in men cleaning around the house seems to be pervasive. I have not
fully understood if it is nurture versus nature. If nurturing can help,
then I want sons who are at least open to doing housework. At the very
least I explain to my sons that I value a neat home so there are times when
that is exactly what I am going to do in that moment. That way they at
least have the example of a person who values picking up around the house
every now and again. And while I am on a roll, I also feel that I have had
to evolve into a person who knows how to clean. Being a child who went to
school and whose parents valued education, I feel that I was not taught the
value in cleaning your home although as a child I remembered noting that my
mother valued a clean home. My parents emphasized academics and my personal
interests outside the home. But, as I have evolved spiritually throughout
the years, I feel that my value in a clean home has more to do with the
gratitude that I have for my home.
This message is getting long and convoluted because I am trying to figure
all of this out.
Working through my stuff.....
Tyra
working mom and it was just the way it was. I hate to clean and am not the
greatest housekeeper. My sister loves to clean (it's really fun for her) and
does it well. My kids are not "required" to clean, or cook, or do laundry.
Btu they all do their own laundry, they all know how to cook, they all can
clean just fine. Sometimes they clean up if it is messy and they have time,
or if they have company coming over. Almost always they will help if I need
help and ask. And at long last, they (usually) pick up after themselves and
their guests. But that is after years of me helping them do that as
children. Laundry they do because it is a help to me, but I will gladly
help them if they need or want something clean and don't have time to do
laundry. I think some of it is just personality. My daughter, Lisa, likes
things neat and tidy and will do lots to keep it that way. Though this does
not come naturally to me, I have tried to be better about it lately as it
matters to her. My oldest hates to clean the kitchen, but will gladly do
errands or extra laundry. My youngest used to love to clean bathrooms, he
would beg to do it. I would sprinkle in the cleaning stuff and let him go at
it. I would need to go in with a big towel and wipe the room down, but it
was clean and he loved doing it. He will still clean bathrooms and he's not
quite as wet when he is done anymore.
When it comes to messy rooms, even before embracing unschooling I never made
the kids clean their rooms. I would work with them when they wanted it clean
or surprise them. Lisa's room was usually clean, Kate's was the proverbial 2
feet deep room. Fast forward to now and both keep their rooms spotless.
Much cleaner than mine. They didn't need me to make them do it all their
lives to want a clean room and have the ability to keep it that way. In
fact, they keep their rooms much cleaner than most of their friends who were
forced to clean their rooms all those years.
As far as the expectation of having things done for them, that is all about
modeling. Being 'made' to do chores and such will not create a grateful,
responsible child. Nor will it create a child that desires orderliness.
This comes by a child seeing a parent joyfully and freely giving to and
doing for others, including their children. It comes from seeing parents
helping each other out. It comes from kids being a part of their parent's
world. And I'm convinced that some of it is just genetics!
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mother Earth (Tyra)
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] How do they learn responsibility WAS Intro and
question
I am seeing the theme of clean the room as a gift to the child. As a young
person, I made a decision to help my children by not doing too much for
them. My mother (God rest her soul) was a great mother. She washed our
clothes, folded, them, ironed them, she always did so much for us. I never
remember feeling gratitude because I thought that that was what mothers did
because she always did so much for us. Once I got out on my own and
realized what I had to do for myself was what my mother always did for a
family of 5, I felt grateful and wondered why Mama never insisted that we do
more for ourselves as we got older. My sons are 2 and 5 yrs, respectively.
I have tried the clean up your room command, I have helped him clean his
room and I will clean the room when I can't stand it, because they don't
complain about the messiness. But, at some point, I want my children to
value having the ability to clean and to actually self-initiate cleaning.
Partly because of my experience as a child, but also because since having
children, I have been disappointed that my husband does not feel moved to do
more around the house considering that I have always done so much for the
children. Also, I see how my father-in-law is and I don't want sons who
think that house work is beneath them. I want them to understand that it is
okay for men to clean because I want to them to do a better job of taking
care of their wives when they get married and subsequently have children
since that is something that is lacking in this culture. And let me end
with saying that I know that I am totally operating from my stuff, but
laziness in men cleaning around the house seems to be pervasive. I have not
fully understood if it is nurture versus nature. If nurturing can help,
then I want sons who are at least open to doing housework. At the very
least I explain to my sons that I value a neat home so there are times when
that is exactly what I am going to do in that moment. That way they at
least have the example of a person who values picking up around the house
every now and again. And while I am on a roll, I also feel that I have had
to evolve into a person who knows how to clean. Being a child who went to
school and whose parents valued education, I feel that I was not taught the
value in cleaning your home although as a child I remembered noting that my
mother valued a clean home. My parents emphasized academics and my personal
interests outside the home. But, as I have evolved spiritually throughout
the years, I feel that my value in a clean home has more to do with the
gratitude that I have for my home.
This message is getting long and convoluted because I am trying to figure
all of this out.
Working through my stuff.....
Tyra
----- Original Message -----
From: mfhickman@...
To: unschooling basics
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Intro and question
Hi,
I hear you want to help her, so how do you go about helping her clean her
room without getting angry?
I suggest you give her the gift of a clean room.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Su Penn pennsu@...
This also models the idea that a person is NOT solely responsible for
her own things and her own messes. That's one of the lies we tell
kids: you made the mess, you clean it up. In real life, my friends
and I help each other clean up our messes all the time.
-=-=-=-=-
One of my favorite Joyce-posts was about Joyce's spilling some milk on the floor. Her daughter, Kathryn, walked by and said, "It's YOUR mess, YOU clean it up!"
Stops you in your tracks when it's repeated back AT you, huh??? <bwg>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Su Penn pennsu@...
This also models the idea that a person is NOT solely responsible for
her own things and her own messes. That's one of the lies we tell
kids: you made the mess, you clean it up. In real life, my friends
and I help each other clean up our messes all the time.
-=-=-=-=-
One of my favorite Joyce-posts was about Joyce's spilling some milk on the floor. Her daughter, Kathryn, walked by and said, "It's YOUR mess, YOU clean it up!"
Stops you in your tracks when it's repeated back AT you, huh??? <bwg>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mother Earth (Tyra)
Thanks for your response, Robyn. And thankfully, I did express my gratitude
to my mother often before her transition.
complain but wished that I had had the desire to know how well before having
children.
cross my mind often. I do think that had I been hsed/unschooled, then
taking care of a home would come more naturally to me. Excellent point!
in my eyes was the woman she was as my mother. She was the BEST mother for
me. I always wondered how she knew how to be such a good mother because her
mother passed when she was four years old. I now know that the loving
energy of motherhood just clicks in when we have our own children even in
the absencence of being raised by your own mother.
that some women have a whole lot more to deal with than a man who does not
clean up much around the house. I don't have too much to complain about.
Peace
Tyra
to my mother often before her transition.
> You were given the gifts of a clean room and no expectations by yourmother,
> and NOW as an adult you *do* know how to clean; you *are* a tidy personwho
> takes responsibility for your home and enjoys doing so; you do now haveI do now know how to clean but it has not been without its bumps. I don't
> gratitude towards your mother. (I hope you had the chance to express it to
> her before her demise.)
complain but wished that I had had the desire to know how well before having
children.
> Perhaps the gratitude and the willingness to involve yourself in homeif
> keeping would have come earlier in your youth if outside-the-home
> activities, including school, had not been made the primary priorities -
> you were more present during the day to see it happening -Since I started the learn at home process with my children, these thoughts
cross my mind often. I do think that had I been hsed/unschooled, then
taking care of a home would come more naturally to me. Excellent point!
> I think it is wonderful that you get to be grateful to a mother who didall
> of that without imbuing it with martyrdom and putting the sense of herbeen
> sacrifice on to you. Her home and giving to her children may truly have
> where she found her greatest joy.During her death process, I told my mother that her greatest accomplishment
in my eyes was the woman she was as my mother. She was the BEST mother for
me. I always wondered how she knew how to be such a good mother because her
mother passed when she was four years old. I now know that the loving
energy of motherhood just clicks in when we have our own children even in
the absencence of being raised by your own mother.
> I have to say that I have surrendered to that concept, after feelingprickly
> for many years. After all he willingly shoulders the income burden. ThingsI am pretty much at the same place as you when it comes to Craig. I think
> may change one day.
that some women have a whole lot more to deal with than a man who does not
clean up much around the house. I don't have too much to complain about.
>isn't
> But the other side of it is, he doesn't get to complain too much if it
> exactly how he would like it done! And the cupboards are organized to myOnce again, WE ARE THERE, TOO! LOL!
> specifications, not his. ;)
Peace
Tyra
Mother Earth (Tyra)
Your response is helpful and insightful, Su! Thank you!
----- Original Message -----
From: Su Penn
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] How do they learn responsibility WAS Intro and question
I don't think kids will learn "everyone is my servant" if parents do
things like pick up after them from a spirit of generosity. Here's
how I think it might not turn into that kind of mindset:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mother Earth (Tyra)
Hello Joyce!
Peace and Love
Tyra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>>So we didn't have any chores growing up :-)We did eventually have a few chores.
>>>>>>>>I think the problem was that she didn't invite us to help.We did get invited and were told to help. But oftentimes, whatever we helped with turned out to be fun and connecting, especially yardwork.
>>>>>>>>She created a dividing line between her/adult world and my and my sistersMy mother created that same line in many ways. She worked outside the home. I remember staying at home with my brothers with my mother supervising us from work as early as 9 yrs old (My older brother was 11 at the time). Our neighbor worked nights so she was our surrougate mother if there was an emergency or we needed adult attention. Since becoming a mother, I thought about how many of my insecurity issues were a result of being bottlefed, not co-sleeping, going to daycare from infancy and going to school. However, since I have begun hsing, especially unschooling, I am realizing just how creative my brothers and I were as a result of being home by ourselves. We always came up with neat recipes and I read all the magazines that laid around the house out of boredom, especially Reader's Digest. Also, because my mother wanted us to be children for as long as possible, play is what my brothers and I did best. I can relate to your experiences, Joyce.
>>>>>>>>kid world. Her world was the household and ours was playing. It was,
>>>>>>>>in many ways, a great childhood because our job was to play and watch
>>>>>>>>TV and read and explore freely. Despite the fact that I went to
>>>>>>>>school I learned tons of stuff on my own (which helped me get
>>>>>>>>unschooling :-)
>>>>>>>>But I didn't really know my mom despite the fact that she was a stayMy mother worked out side the home all of my life but we were close. Our personalities were similar. I also remember my mother always going on and on about how much she loved me and how much smarter I was than she was when she was my age at the time. The latter remarked always shocked me because she was perfect in my mind but I guess that it left an impression and caused me to respect her even more.
>>>>>>>at home mom.
>>>>>My daughter knows me a lot better :-) And we're very much a part ofI love that. I miss my mother even though she transitioned 8.5 yrs ago and wished that I had a daughter of my own to share the connection that I had with my mother.
>>>>>each other's worlds.
>>>>>>>> So they know if you're doingYou don't know how profound these words are to me. THANK YOU!
>>>>>>>>something it's because you're choosing to! :-)
Peace and Love
Tyra
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Mother Earth (Tyra)
April,
Your answer is DA BOMB! Thank you for helping me to realize that what you put in is what you get out in cleaning and really anything when it comes to children and people in general. I am seeing how making a child clean when they don't want to creates adversarial relationships, just as someone else was saying the other day.
Thanks!
Tyra
Your answer is DA BOMB! Thank you for helping me to realize that what you put in is what you get out in cleaning and really anything when it comes to children and people in general. I am seeing how making a child clean when they don't want to creates adversarial relationships, just as someone else was saying the other day.
Thanks!
Tyra
----- Original Message -----
From: April
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 2:47 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] How do they learn responsibility WAS Intro and question
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]