Re: Self-Discipline WAS: Question WAS: What do you think?
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
Pam,
That's a great story. I think you touched on something there that is a
major problem with teens and college age students. They go hog-wild when
their parents aren't around to control them. They've never been taught
self-control because they've always been exposed to a dictatorship at home.
That would make an awesome research project. What is the correlation
between teen and college age "acting out" and the discipline they grew up
exposed to? I think I'm going to start thinking about how this sort of
information can be studied.
My parenting style has most certainly begun to change ever since bringing my
child home from public school. Thanks so much for sharing that story.
There's so much great discussion and introspection going on in the group
right now. It's really made me think about my own life and motives and the
way I'd really like things to be in my household.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Pamela Sorooshian
Date: 12/11/05 12:57:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Question WAS: What do you think?
Last night, my 14 yo was talking online to a 15 yo friend in another
state. He questions her, frequently, about her relationship with us
(her parents) and he is very very sure of himself, sure of his
opinions (at least comes across that way - the fact that he brings
the topic up over and over makes me think that, inside, he isn't
really as sure of himself as he appears). He is a "good kid" - he's
polite, he's interesting, he talks to adults (although the kids say
he acts "different" around adults), he seems to love his parents and
his siblings, he has interests and passions, he seems to get along
pretty well with other people, in general and seems overall really
good-natured and easygoing.
He is frequently "grounded" or has things "taken away" - by his
father, primarily, for breaking family rules. He has been spanked,
too, when younger. He STRONGLY favors the exact kind of upbringing he
is experiencing. He tells Rosie that any child of his will most
definitely be spanked and punished for disobeying rules and said that
kids who aren't punished get spoiled and that he doesn't think
children are parents are on the same "level" - that parents should
act like parents and say "no" when they need to. Rosie said to him,
last night, "So, do you think I'm spoiled, because I've never been
punished and my parents don't really ever just say no?" He didn't
answer, really, but just came back with the question, "If your
parents ever just said "no" to something, would you listen?" (She
says he meant would she ignore them and do whatever it is anyway or
would she abide by her parents' wishes.) She told him, "Yes, of
course I would." His answer: "Yeah, right."
She said, "If they felt that strongly that they just straight out
said, "Absolutely not. No way. No discussion." then I'd think there
is some REALLY good reason and I'd go along with their wishes. But
they've never done that, they always explain their reasons and we
talk about things and decide together." He said, "Kids don't know
enough to decide everything for themselves." She said, "I don't
decide everything for myself. I decide WITH my parents."
This went on - and she got frustrated because it was clear that he
simply couldn't CONCEIVE of the kind of relationship where kids and
parents honestly try to work things out together. Here is this very
nice kid with nice parents - but they see themselves as inevitably
adversarial and, the part that saddens Rosie most, the teenager sees
HIMSELF as needing external control through threat of punishment to
keep himself from doing bad things. If his parents were not there to
threaten punishment, he apparently thinks he would go wild and do all
kinds of stuff that he shouldn't do.
THAT is a foreign concept to Rosie.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's a great story. I think you touched on something there that is a
major problem with teens and college age students. They go hog-wild when
their parents aren't around to control them. They've never been taught
self-control because they've always been exposed to a dictatorship at home.
That would make an awesome research project. What is the correlation
between teen and college age "acting out" and the discipline they grew up
exposed to? I think I'm going to start thinking about how this sort of
information can be studied.
My parenting style has most certainly begun to change ever since bringing my
child home from public school. Thanks so much for sharing that story.
There's so much great discussion and introspection going on in the group
right now. It's really made me think about my own life and motives and the
way I'd really like things to be in my household.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Pamela Sorooshian
Date: 12/11/05 12:57:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Question WAS: What do you think?
Last night, my 14 yo was talking online to a 15 yo friend in another
state. He questions her, frequently, about her relationship with us
(her parents) and he is very very sure of himself, sure of his
opinions (at least comes across that way - the fact that he brings
the topic up over and over makes me think that, inside, he isn't
really as sure of himself as he appears). He is a "good kid" - he's
polite, he's interesting, he talks to adults (although the kids say
he acts "different" around adults), he seems to love his parents and
his siblings, he has interests and passions, he seems to get along
pretty well with other people, in general and seems overall really
good-natured and easygoing.
He is frequently "grounded" or has things "taken away" - by his
father, primarily, for breaking family rules. He has been spanked,
too, when younger. He STRONGLY favors the exact kind of upbringing he
is experiencing. He tells Rosie that any child of his will most
definitely be spanked and punished for disobeying rules and said that
kids who aren't punished get spoiled and that he doesn't think
children are parents are on the same "level" - that parents should
act like parents and say "no" when they need to. Rosie said to him,
last night, "So, do you think I'm spoiled, because I've never been
punished and my parents don't really ever just say no?" He didn't
answer, really, but just came back with the question, "If your
parents ever just said "no" to something, would you listen?" (She
says he meant would she ignore them and do whatever it is anyway or
would she abide by her parents' wishes.) She told him, "Yes, of
course I would." His answer: "Yeah, right."
She said, "If they felt that strongly that they just straight out
said, "Absolutely not. No way. No discussion." then I'd think there
is some REALLY good reason and I'd go along with their wishes. But
they've never done that, they always explain their reasons and we
talk about things and decide together." He said, "Kids don't know
enough to decide everything for themselves." She said, "I don't
decide everything for myself. I decide WITH my parents."
This went on - and she got frustrated because it was clear that he
simply couldn't CONCEIVE of the kind of relationship where kids and
parents honestly try to work things out together. Here is this very
nice kid with nice parents - but they see themselves as inevitably
adversarial and, the part that saddens Rosie most, the teenager sees
HIMSELF as needing external control through threat of punishment to
keep himself from doing bad things. If his parents were not there to
threaten punishment, he apparently thinks he would go wild and do all
kinds of stuff that he shouldn't do.
THAT is a foreign concept to Rosie.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anastasia Hall
You know, Lesa, I've been thinking about the teen years and the relationship to parenting styles lately myself. I've known teens raised in controlling homes who got into partying and drugs and sex as soon as they left home. I've also been a teen who didn't have much for rules or punishments, and I went hog-wild just as bad as they did, and at an earlier age. The one thing I did realize, though, was that my mom wasn't around and wasn't very involved with my life in my teen years. I was just kind of set free at 10 - left to make sure I got my homework done and make meals for myself and two younger bros and cleaning the house and such. My mom did the best she could as a single mom, going to school full-time and working as much as she could when she wasn't at school. I'm not saying this to whine, but to make the point that I think it's the amount of involvement, communication, and interest in teens' lives, along with giving them the freedom to do & choose for
themselves, that is the key to keeping kids out of trouble when they leave home or are without parental supervision. I could always be wrong or playing the "what if?" game with my childhood, but this is the theory floating in my head lately.
Anastasia
Lesa McMahon-Lowe <lesajm@...> wrote: Pam,
That's a great story. I think you touched on something there that is a
major problem with teens and college age students. They go hog-wild when
their parents aren't around to control them. They've never been taught
self-control because they've always been exposed to a dictatorship at home.
That would make an awesome research project. What is the correlation
between teen and college age "acting out" and the discipline they grew up
exposed to? I think I'm going to start thinking about how this sort of
information can be studied.
My parenting style has most certainly begun to change ever since bringing my
child home from public school. Thanks so much for sharing that story.
There's so much great discussion and introspection going on in the group
right now. It's really made me think about my own life and motives and the
way I'd really like things to be in my household.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Pamela Sorooshian
Date: 12/11/05 12:57:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Question WAS: What do you think?
Last night, my 14 yo was talking online to a 15 yo friend in another
state. He questions her, frequently, about her relationship with us
(her parents) and he is very very sure of himself, sure of his
opinions (at least comes across that way - the fact that he brings
the topic up over and over makes me think that, inside, he isn't
really as sure of himself as he appears). He is a "good kid" - he's
polite, he's interesting, he talks to adults (although the kids say
he acts "different" around adults), he seems to love his parents and
his siblings, he has interests and passions, he seems to get along
pretty well with other people, in general and seems overall really
good-natured and easygoing.
He is frequently "grounded" or has things "taken away" - by his
father, primarily, for breaking family rules. He has been spanked,
too, when younger. He STRONGLY favors the exact kind of upbringing he
is experiencing. He tells Rosie that any child of his will most
definitely be spanked and punished for disobeying rules and said that
kids who aren't punished get spoiled and that he doesn't think
children are parents are on the same "level" - that parents should
act like parents and say "no" when they need to. Rosie said to him,
last night, "So, do you think I'm spoiled, because I've never been
punished and my parents don't really ever just say no?" He didn't
answer, really, but just came back with the question, "If your
parents ever just said "no" to something, would you listen?" (She
says he meant would she ignore them and do whatever it is anyway or
would she abide by her parents' wishes.) She told him, "Yes, of
course I would." His answer: "Yeah, right."
She said, "If they felt that strongly that they just straight out
said, "Absolutely not. No way. No discussion." then I'd think there
is some REALLY good reason and I'd go along with their wishes. But
they've never done that, they always explain their reasons and we
talk about things and decide together." He said, "Kids don't know
enough to decide everything for themselves." She said, "I don't
decide everything for myself. I decide WITH my parents."
This went on - and she got frustrated because it was clear that he
simply couldn't CONCEIVE of the kind of relationship where kids and
parents honestly try to work things out together. Here is this very
nice kid with nice parents - but they see themselves as inevitably
adversarial and, the part that saddens Rosie most, the teenager sees
HIMSELF as needing external control through threat of punishment to
keep himself from doing bad things. If his parents were not there to
threaten punishment, he apparently thinks he would go wild and do all
kinds of stuff that he shouldn't do.
THAT is a foreign concept to Rosie.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
themselves, that is the key to keeping kids out of trouble when they leave home or are without parental supervision. I could always be wrong or playing the "what if?" game with my childhood, but this is the theory floating in my head lately.
Anastasia
Lesa McMahon-Lowe <lesajm@...> wrote: Pam,
That's a great story. I think you touched on something there that is a
major problem with teens and college age students. They go hog-wild when
their parents aren't around to control them. They've never been taught
self-control because they've always been exposed to a dictatorship at home.
That would make an awesome research project. What is the correlation
between teen and college age "acting out" and the discipline they grew up
exposed to? I think I'm going to start thinking about how this sort of
information can be studied.
My parenting style has most certainly begun to change ever since bringing my
child home from public school. Thanks so much for sharing that story.
There's so much great discussion and introspection going on in the group
right now. It's really made me think about my own life and motives and the
way I'd really like things to be in my household.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Pamela Sorooshian
Date: 12/11/05 12:57:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Question WAS: What do you think?
Last night, my 14 yo was talking online to a 15 yo friend in another
state. He questions her, frequently, about her relationship with us
(her parents) and he is very very sure of himself, sure of his
opinions (at least comes across that way - the fact that he brings
the topic up over and over makes me think that, inside, he isn't
really as sure of himself as he appears). He is a "good kid" - he's
polite, he's interesting, he talks to adults (although the kids say
he acts "different" around adults), he seems to love his parents and
his siblings, he has interests and passions, he seems to get along
pretty well with other people, in general and seems overall really
good-natured and easygoing.
He is frequently "grounded" or has things "taken away" - by his
father, primarily, for breaking family rules. He has been spanked,
too, when younger. He STRONGLY favors the exact kind of upbringing he
is experiencing. He tells Rosie that any child of his will most
definitely be spanked and punished for disobeying rules and said that
kids who aren't punished get spoiled and that he doesn't think
children are parents are on the same "level" - that parents should
act like parents and say "no" when they need to. Rosie said to him,
last night, "So, do you think I'm spoiled, because I've never been
punished and my parents don't really ever just say no?" He didn't
answer, really, but just came back with the question, "If your
parents ever just said "no" to something, would you listen?" (She
says he meant would she ignore them and do whatever it is anyway or
would she abide by her parents' wishes.) She told him, "Yes, of
course I would." His answer: "Yeah, right."
She said, "If they felt that strongly that they just straight out
said, "Absolutely not. No way. No discussion." then I'd think there
is some REALLY good reason and I'd go along with their wishes. But
they've never done that, they always explain their reasons and we
talk about things and decide together." He said, "Kids don't know
enough to decide everything for themselves." She said, "I don't
decide everything for myself. I decide WITH my parents."
This went on - and she got frustrated because it was clear that he
simply couldn't CONCEIVE of the kind of relationship where kids and
parents honestly try to work things out together. Here is this very
nice kid with nice parents - but they see themselves as inevitably
adversarial and, the part that saddens Rosie most, the teenager sees
HIMSELF as needing external control through threat of punishment to
keep himself from doing bad things. If his parents were not there to
threaten punishment, he apparently thinks he would go wild and do all
kinds of stuff that he shouldn't do.
THAT is a foreign concept to Rosie.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]