failing at unschooling
Ren Allen
"Anyways, I suggested that a child who needed structure would
probably
provide it him or herself - with the parent's assistance perhaps"
What those people are failing to understand, is a need for structure
has NOTHING to do with schooling. Yes, some children need
structure. All of the children I know that really, truly NEED what
some people call "structure" is knowledge of what is to come.
They like predictability, they like the "structure" of plans and
it's the parent's job to help them achieve that in the ways that
child needs.
For many parents, it's just an excuse to exert control...that's why
I dis-like the term structure, even though it simply means a form,
an outline or frame upon which to build.
Unschooling can work just fine with a child that needs structure.
Why would structure equal SCHOOL though? That's what makes me think
the parent never got the school out of their own head.
Ren
probably
provide it him or herself - with the parent's assistance perhaps"
What those people are failing to understand, is a need for structure
has NOTHING to do with schooling. Yes, some children need
structure. All of the children I know that really, truly NEED what
some people call "structure" is knowledge of what is to come.
They like predictability, they like the "structure" of plans and
it's the parent's job to help them achieve that in the ways that
child needs.
For many parents, it's just an excuse to exert control...that's why
I dis-like the term structure, even though it simply means a form,
an outline or frame upon which to build.
Unschooling can work just fine with a child that needs structure.
Why would structure equal SCHOOL though? That's what makes me think
the parent never got the school out of their own head.
Ren
Daniel MacIntyre
Thanks Ren! You are expressing what I wanted to say MUCH better than I
did. That's a big help!
did. That's a big help!
On 11/24/05, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "Anyways, I suggested that a child who needed structure would
> probably
> provide it him or herself - with the parent's assistance perhaps"
>
> What those people are failing to understand, is a need for structure
> has NOTHING to do with schooling. Yes, some children need
> structure. All of the children I know that really, truly NEED what
> some people call "structure" is knowledge of what is to come.
>
> They like predictability, they like the "structure" of plans and
> it's the parent's job to help them achieve that in the ways that
> child needs.
> For many parents, it's just an excuse to exert control...that's why
> I dis-like the term structure, even though it simply means a form,
> an outline or frame upon which to build.
>
> Unschooling can work just fine with a child that needs structure.
> Why would structure equal SCHOOL though? That's what makes me think
> the parent never got the school out of their own head.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Daniel
( Blogging at http://key-words.blogspot.com/ )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
----Original Message----
From: Ren Allen starsuncloud@...
What those people are failing to understand, is a need for structure
has NOTHING to do with schooling. Yes, some children need
structure. All of the children I know that really, truly NEED what
some people call "structure" is knowledge of what is to come.
-=-=-=-=-
*I* need structure, and I've been out of school for decades!
I'm a lister---I have daily lists of all kinds of things that I want to get done by whenever.
I have deadlines: small ones, like get into a hive before it gets too cold or bring the Christmas decorations in so I can get busy with that---and big ones, like signing hotel contracts and sending out speaker contracts.
I have groom clients coming in every few days, so I'm working around other people's schedules too.---Not to mention those of my sons and husband!
I have food structures throughout the day and week: what to buy, when to fix it.
I'm redecorating my bedroom---paint/linens/design---all needs to be in place before I empty the room. That way I can get it done in two days! <g>
I have critters to feed and laundry to wash and fold and plants to water.
Artist Trading Cards (due Jan 8th): designing and making and shipping.
I have travel arrangements to plan (Ryan, our guide dog, goes back to achool on Monday). Car goes in this morning for service.
Without some kind of schedule/structure in my head or on paper, many of these things just wouldn't get done. But to think that I learned that in school is ridiculous!
In school, my days were sructured FOR me. I didn't have to think at all while there. I DID learn how to structure/schedule my day AFTER school so that I could squeeze in everything I needed/wanted to get done. But that had nothing to do with outside-imposed/managed structure.
Well, except that I had *less* time to get done what *I* wanted/needed to do! <g>
We each decide how much structure we need in order to do what we want to. My high need for structure probably enables me to do more than my friends who don't. But that's ME! It's not something that can be imposed on another with good results---just like learning!
If I were to tell my children what to do and when, they could do that. But watching *me* juggle several balls at one time and still take them where they need to go or play Scene-It with them or bake cookies too---THAT's how they will learn to schedule their time and find the structure *they* need.
Modelling the structure YOU need will enable them to develop the structure *they* need to do what all they want to. Most of us have an innate need for more or less structure---and I think it develops over time as we figure it all out. Forcing structure on others won't get them to "do it our way." And it won't result in structured adults---but instead, those who look for structure from others.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Ren Allen starsuncloud@...
What those people are failing to understand, is a need for structure
has NOTHING to do with schooling. Yes, some children need
structure. All of the children I know that really, truly NEED what
some people call "structure" is knowledge of what is to come.
-=-=-=-=-
*I* need structure, and I've been out of school for decades!
I'm a lister---I have daily lists of all kinds of things that I want to get done by whenever.
I have deadlines: small ones, like get into a hive before it gets too cold or bring the Christmas decorations in so I can get busy with that---and big ones, like signing hotel contracts and sending out speaker contracts.
I have groom clients coming in every few days, so I'm working around other people's schedules too.---Not to mention those of my sons and husband!
I have food structures throughout the day and week: what to buy, when to fix it.
I'm redecorating my bedroom---paint/linens/design---all needs to be in place before I empty the room. That way I can get it done in two days! <g>
I have critters to feed and laundry to wash and fold and plants to water.
Artist Trading Cards (due Jan 8th): designing and making and shipping.
I have travel arrangements to plan (Ryan, our guide dog, goes back to achool on Monday). Car goes in this morning for service.
Without some kind of schedule/structure in my head or on paper, many of these things just wouldn't get done. But to think that I learned that in school is ridiculous!
In school, my days were sructured FOR me. I didn't have to think at all while there. I DID learn how to structure/schedule my day AFTER school so that I could squeeze in everything I needed/wanted to get done. But that had nothing to do with outside-imposed/managed structure.
Well, except that I had *less* time to get done what *I* wanted/needed to do! <g>
We each decide how much structure we need in order to do what we want to. My high need for structure probably enables me to do more than my friends who don't. But that's ME! It's not something that can be imposed on another with good results---just like learning!
If I were to tell my children what to do and when, they could do that. But watching *me* juggle several balls at one time and still take them where they need to go or play Scene-It with them or bake cookies too---THAT's how they will learn to schedule their time and find the structure *they* need.
Modelling the structure YOU need will enable them to develop the structure *they* need to do what all they want to. Most of us have an innate need for more or less structure---and I think it develops over time as we figure it all out. Forcing structure on others won't get them to "do it our way." And it won't result in structured adults---but instead, those who look for structure from others.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
" My
high need for structure probably enables me to do more than my friends
who
don't."
Gosh, and I always thought you were just a hyper spasmoid like me!
Dang.
Ren
high need for structure probably enables me to do more than my friends
who
don't."
Gosh, and I always thought you were just a hyper spasmoid like me!
Dang.
Ren
Deborah Donndelinger
This conversation has led me to a belief I had about unschoolers -- I
thought to be a successful unschooler that one would have to have a very
spontaneous and loose personality. For folks who prefer structure and
order, unschooling wouldn't fit. That was part of my resistance to it
-- I thought I'd have to take on someone else's view of what a
successful laid-back personality is. Mmmm, perhaps I was wrong ..
I'd love to hear a bit from the structured folks how unschooling works
for them ...
- Deborah in Maryland
Ren Allen wrote:
thought to be a successful unschooler that one would have to have a very
spontaneous and loose personality. For folks who prefer structure and
order, unschooling wouldn't fit. That was part of my resistance to it
-- I thought I'd have to take on someone else's view of what a
successful laid-back personality is. Mmmm, perhaps I was wrong ..
I'd love to hear a bit from the structured folks how unschooling works
for them ...
- Deborah in Maryland
Ren Allen wrote:
> " My
> high need for structure probably enables me to do more than my friends
> who
> don't."
>
> Gosh, and I always thought you were just a hyper spasmoid like me!
> Dang.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/24/2005 10:15:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
Unschooling can work just fine with a child that needs structure.
Why would structure equal SCHOOL though? That's what makes me think
the parent never got the school out of their own head.
~~~~~~~~~~
My son likes "structure" to some extent, but structure here is, we have
breakfast around 9, lunch around 12-1, Daddy comes home, we have dinner. Our
structure is loose, but enough for him to feel some control. Like today, we're
going shopping when Daddy gets home and getting snow boots and stuff. He knows
that we're going, so he's set with that.
I can't see us being happy with a tight structured schedule going on. Tried
that once. I can't stick to it, and they were miserable.
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
Unschooling can work just fine with a child that needs structure.
Why would structure equal SCHOOL though? That's what makes me think
the parent never got the school out of their own head.
~~~~~~~~~~
My son likes "structure" to some extent, but structure here is, we have
breakfast around 9, lunch around 12-1, Daddy comes home, we have dinner. Our
structure is loose, but enough for him to feel some control. Like today, we're
going shopping when Daddy gets home and getting snow boots and stuff. He knows
that we're going, so he's set with that.
I can't see us being happy with a tight structured schedule going on. Tried
that once. I can't stick to it, and they were miserable.
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Deborah Donndelinger <ddonndelinger@...>
This conversation has led me to a belief I had about unschoolers -- I
thought to be a successful unschooler that one would have to have a very
spontaneous and loose personality. For folks who prefer structure and
order, unschooling wouldn't fit. That was part of my resistance to it
-- I thought I'd have to take on someone else's view of what a
successful laid-back personality is. Mmmm, perhaps I was wrong ..
I'd love to hear a bit from the structured folks how unschooling works
for them ...
-=-=-=-
I think this is a common misconception.
Cameron's girlfriend's mom once described me as "flighty" (after I tried to explain unschooling to her).
Cracked Ben, my husband, up! <G> Ben's a Lt Col in the Air National Guard---and a Citadel grad, so
he's kind of known for structure! <bwg> But he knows better than to describe *me* as flighty! <g>
I'm pretty organized and structured. I just don't enforce that on my kids. They're developing their own
levels of structure. Cameron has a daytimer and a calendar to keep track of his very, very busy life. He
purposefully *makes* time to meditate and drum and write letters to friends every day. He works---nothing
9-5, but he has several parttime jobs to keep track of. Plus band practice and a girlfriend whom he sees
every day.
Structure dos NOT mean that we enforce workbooks and lessons. It means that we have some organized plans
for the day/week/month/year. To not have some kind of structure to my day would mean not getting nearly as
much done! Ren's teasing me that I'm just spasoid! <G> No, I'm just *high energy* and need to plan and
organize MY stuff in order to fit it all in!
We have calendars or daytimers in every room! We're already planning all of next year's trips, birthdays,
holidays, celebrations, etc. NOW, so that we can do what all we want to do. This also gives us some idea
of what all we can accomplish as well as where to put $$ so that we don't run out before the end of the
year! Sometimes it means sacrificing a few things, but by planning we can decide what's more important.
Ren has set up this ATC trade. I'm going to have to fit it into the schedule---pick a day or two, set
up the (new) art room, gather supplies, (maybe order a pizza <g>), make sure everyone's set aside that time
and that it doesn't conflict with work or school (Cam's schooled girlfriend is joining us). If I didn't do
all that....well, it *might* get done, but it would probably be haphazard. I'm NOT haphazard! <g> I won't
schedule it and then expect everyone to work with what *I* decide: I'll need to work *with* all of us---AND
get it done by Jan 8th. I work best with deadlines! <G>
We have critters and gardens and ---well, just STUFF that needs to be cared for daily . I have classes
(fencing) and clients (dog grooming) that need to be scheduled around.
Some days (MOST days) I tell myself to do one big thing or two little things on my list. That could mean
checking on the bees and cleaning the dining room (two little things) or weeding the garden OR painting the
bedroom (one big thing). That's just to cross things off my (ever-growing) list. I also need to set aside
time to read/write to Y'ALL! <G> Not to mention laundry/cooking/cleaning/etc.---you know, regular stuff.
The conference starts before the last conference ends! Contracts and plans, etc. I have "count-downs" as
we get closer, and I look forward to crossing things off lists! <G> Big thrill! <bwg>
I NEED structure---I have too much to do without it. As busy as we ARE, I cannot imagine making someone
do workbooks or enforcing lessons. There's simply not enough TIME!
I know my children will develop what THEY need in order to organize their lives---I watch it evolve as they
find how little time they have to do all the things the want to do. We're a busy family, and we all need to
figure out how best to work within the 24/7/365 thang.
Am I spontaneous? Hmmmm....I spontaneusly decided to put on a conference, which took 13 months to
pull off that first year! <g> I spontaneously decided I wanted bees, so I did research and met beekeepers
and, yes, got my bees! <G> I've always wanted to raise a guide dog puppy, so we applied! <G>
So, yes, there's spontaneity---I'll pack up and take off for the beach if nothing else is planned for
that day. I'll just put off something else to another day! <G> The kids LOVE that kind of thing! Picnics
in the park, painting their bedrooms---whatever.
But everyone is different. I don't think I could function without structure. Maybe Ren avoids it! <Bwg>
~KellyKelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Deborah Donndelinger <ddonndelinger@...>
This conversation has led me to a belief I had about unschoolers -- I
thought to be a successful unschooler that one would have to have a very
spontaneous and loose personality. For folks who prefer structure and
order, unschooling wouldn't fit. That was part of my resistance to it
-- I thought I'd have to take on someone else's view of what a
successful laid-back personality is. Mmmm, perhaps I was wrong ..
I'd love to hear a bit from the structured folks how unschooling works
for them ...
-=-=-=-
I think this is a common misconception.
Cameron's girlfriend's mom once described me as "flighty" (after I tried to explain unschooling to her).
Cracked Ben, my husband, up! <G> Ben's a Lt Col in the Air National Guard---and a Citadel grad, so
he's kind of known for structure! <bwg> But he knows better than to describe *me* as flighty! <g>
I'm pretty organized and structured. I just don't enforce that on my kids. They're developing their own
levels of structure. Cameron has a daytimer and a calendar to keep track of his very, very busy life. He
purposefully *makes* time to meditate and drum and write letters to friends every day. He works---nothing
9-5, but he has several parttime jobs to keep track of. Plus band practice and a girlfriend whom he sees
every day.
Structure dos NOT mean that we enforce workbooks and lessons. It means that we have some organized plans
for the day/week/month/year. To not have some kind of structure to my day would mean not getting nearly as
much done! Ren's teasing me that I'm just spasoid! <G> No, I'm just *high energy* and need to plan and
organize MY stuff in order to fit it all in!
We have calendars or daytimers in every room! We're already planning all of next year's trips, birthdays,
holidays, celebrations, etc. NOW, so that we can do what all we want to do. This also gives us some idea
of what all we can accomplish as well as where to put $$ so that we don't run out before the end of the
year! Sometimes it means sacrificing a few things, but by planning we can decide what's more important.
Ren has set up this ATC trade. I'm going to have to fit it into the schedule---pick a day or two, set
up the (new) art room, gather supplies, (maybe order a pizza <g>), make sure everyone's set aside that time
and that it doesn't conflict with work or school (Cam's schooled girlfriend is joining us). If I didn't do
all that....well, it *might* get done, but it would probably be haphazard. I'm NOT haphazard! <g> I won't
schedule it and then expect everyone to work with what *I* decide: I'll need to work *with* all of us---AND
get it done by Jan 8th. I work best with deadlines! <G>
We have critters and gardens and ---well, just STUFF that needs to be cared for daily . I have classes
(fencing) and clients (dog grooming) that need to be scheduled around.
Some days (MOST days) I tell myself to do one big thing or two little things on my list. That could mean
checking on the bees and cleaning the dining room (two little things) or weeding the garden OR painting the
bedroom (one big thing). That's just to cross things off my (ever-growing) list. I also need to set aside
time to read/write to Y'ALL! <G> Not to mention laundry/cooking/cleaning/etc.---you know, regular stuff.
The conference starts before the last conference ends! Contracts and plans, etc. I have "count-downs" as
we get closer, and I look forward to crossing things off lists! <G> Big thrill! <bwg>
I NEED structure---I have too much to do without it. As busy as we ARE, I cannot imagine making someone
do workbooks or enforcing lessons. There's simply not enough TIME!
I know my children will develop what THEY need in order to organize their lives---I watch it evolve as they
find how little time they have to do all the things the want to do. We're a busy family, and we all need to
figure out how best to work within the 24/7/365 thang.
Am I spontaneous? Hmmmm....I spontaneusly decided to put on a conference, which took 13 months to
pull off that first year! <g> I spontaneously decided I wanted bees, so I did research and met beekeepers
and, yes, got my bees! <G> I've always wanted to raise a guide dog puppy, so we applied! <G>
So, yes, there's spontaneity---I'll pack up and take off for the beach if nothing else is planned for
that day. I'll just put off something else to another day! <G> The kids LOVE that kind of thing! Picnics
in the park, painting their bedrooms---whatever.
But everyone is different. I don't think I could function without structure. Maybe Ren avoids it! <Bwg>
~KellyKelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>I'd like to hear more from the stuctured folks...>>We are fairly structured here. There are 5 kids who enjoy lots of activities and a Dad that travels a lot. So we have to have a plan. We tried many different ideas on how to do that, kids giving feedback, adults giving feedback. We finally have settled on having a list of what really needs to get done that day (it might have "chores", such as feeding the dog, and it might have fun stuff, like calling to get directions to a sleepover). Everyone in the family has a list and the only things on it are things that people have agreed to. My kids liked this better than me asking for help throughout the day because it felt to them that I was "always" asking them to do something. With the list, they say that they feel they have more control.
I personally think structure will look different for every family but the key is to listen to the family, look at what is going on, try ideas that are out of the box. If somebody isn't happy then we need to take a look at how we as a family can re-arrange things, etc..
My oldest LOVES structure. She is taking classes in writing, british lit and Spanish because she enjoys it. I pay for it but I am not invested personally in it. I support her and try to help make taking those classes as enjoyable for her as I can but it isn't MY activity. I even tease her about how the only way an unschooler can rebel is to take classes. She laughs, I laugh. It is something we are light and easy about.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Deborah Donndelinger <ddonndelinger@...>
Date: Friday, November 25, 2005 9:40 am
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] failing at unschooling
> This conversation has led me to a belief I had about unschoolers --
> I
> thought to be a successful unschooler that one would have to have
> a very
> spontaneous and loose personality. For folks who prefer structure
> and
> order, unschooling wouldn't fit. That was part of my resistance
> to it
> -- I thought I'd have to take on someone else's view of what a
> successful laid-back personality is. Mmmm, perhaps I was wrong ..
>
> I'd love to hear a bit from the structured folks how unschooling
> works
> for them ...
>
> - Deborah in Maryland
>
> Ren Allen wrote:
>
> > " My
> > high need for structure probably enables me to do more than my
> friends> who
> > don't."
> >
> > Gosh, and I always thought you were just a hyper spasmoid like me!
> > Dang.
> >
> > Ren
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> DonorsChoose.org helps at-risk students succeed. Fund a student
> project today!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/9.ZgmA/FpQLAA/HwKMAA/0xXolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ann
Deborah,
I will be the first to admit that I am not the most orderly, need structure type person, but I have kids who are more that way. What I found was that while we don't have a schedule or chore chart or anything like that we still have a basic rhythm to our days. We all get up and go to sleep about the same time everyday, and while we don't have set meal times we all tend to gravitate to the kitchen about the same time. I have even noticed that if somebody realizes someone else is fixing something to eat it causes a kind of domino affect because it's just more fun to graze in the kitchen with company.:0)
I suppose the main point I wanted to share that really helped my kids' need for structure was that I set aside a block of time for them each day. I am available all the time, but from 9-12 each morning I am here for ONLY them. I don't answer the phone, do house work, run errands, or pursue my own interests, I am there and present with them for whatever they need that day. They know this is set aside for them, they look forward to it, they save stuff for me to do with them during that time because they know my attention is undivided. In the afternoon, I start the wash, pay the bills, whatever the day calls for... and I am still there, just not undivided like the morning. It works for us anyway.:0)
Ann
Deborah Donndelinger <ddonndelinger@...> wrote:
This conversation has led me to a belief I had about unschoolers -- I
thought to be a successful unschooler that one would have to have a very
spontaneous and loose personality. For folks who prefer structure and
order, unschooling wouldn't fit. That was part of my resistance to it
-- I thought I'd have to take on someone else's view of what a
successful laid-back personality is. Mmmm, perhaps I was wrong ..
I'd love to hear a bit from the structured folks how unschooling works
for them ...
- Deborah in Maryland
Ren Allen wrote:
Secondary school education Graduate school education Home school education Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school education
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I will be the first to admit that I am not the most orderly, need structure type person, but I have kids who are more that way. What I found was that while we don't have a schedule or chore chart or anything like that we still have a basic rhythm to our days. We all get up and go to sleep about the same time everyday, and while we don't have set meal times we all tend to gravitate to the kitchen about the same time. I have even noticed that if somebody realizes someone else is fixing something to eat it causes a kind of domino affect because it's just more fun to graze in the kitchen with company.:0)
I suppose the main point I wanted to share that really helped my kids' need for structure was that I set aside a block of time for them each day. I am available all the time, but from 9-12 each morning I am here for ONLY them. I don't answer the phone, do house work, run errands, or pursue my own interests, I am there and present with them for whatever they need that day. They know this is set aside for them, they look forward to it, they save stuff for me to do with them during that time because they know my attention is undivided. In the afternoon, I start the wash, pay the bills, whatever the day calls for... and I am still there, just not undivided like the morning. It works for us anyway.:0)
Ann
Deborah Donndelinger <ddonndelinger@...> wrote:
This conversation has led me to a belief I had about unschoolers -- I
thought to be a successful unschooler that one would have to have a very
spontaneous and loose personality. For folks who prefer structure and
order, unschooling wouldn't fit. That was part of my resistance to it
-- I thought I'd have to take on someone else's view of what a
successful laid-back personality is. Mmmm, perhaps I was wrong ..
I'd love to hear a bit from the structured folks how unschooling works
for them ...
- Deborah in Maryland
Ren Allen wrote:
> " MySPONSORED LINKS
> high need for structure probably enables me to do more than my friends
> who
> don't."
>
> Gosh, and I always thought you were just a hyper spasmoid like me!
> Dang.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
Secondary school education Graduate school education Home school education Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school education
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Donndelinger
Ann - I love that idea of the block of time. I am one who is often
distracted by household and other chores ...
Thanks for the idea,
Deborah
Ann wrote:
distracted by household and other chores ...
Thanks for the idea,
Deborah
Ann wrote:
> cut...
> I suppose the main point I wanted to share that really helped my
> kids' need for structure was that I set aside a block of time for them
> each day. I am available all the time, but from 9-12 each morning I
> am here for ONLY them. I don't answer the phone, do house work, run
> errands, or pursue my own interests, I am there and present with them
> for whatever they need that day. They know this is set aside for
> them, they look forward to it, they save stuff for me to do with them
> during that time because they know my attention is undivided. In the
> afternoon, I start the wash, pay the bills, whatever the day calls
> for... and I am still there, just not undivided like the morning. It
> works for us anyway.:0)
>
Deborah Donndelinger
Thanks Kelly and Julie for your replies. I just love being able to hear
"straight from the horse's mouth" so to speak. I am kicking myself for
all the things I have thought about unschooling based on no direct
experience or research. It's like me believing all the misconceptions
about homeschooling ... I'm going to go make a list ... (chuckle) ...
- Deborah in Maryland
"straight from the horse's mouth" so to speak. I am kicking myself for
all the things I have thought about unschooling based on no direct
experience or research. It's like me believing all the misconceptions
about homeschooling ... I'm going to go make a list ... (chuckle) ...
- Deborah in Maryland
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: John & Karen Buxcel buxcel@...
My question for those of you who are past having YOUNG children:
How did you get things done/stay on top of things. I have children who are
6, 4, 1. I am one of those personalities a bit like Kelly, organized, list
making, need some rhythm and some sort of structure to know what to expect.
How in the WORLD can I have something like this for myself, which I really
crave but can't seem to achieve, and also be there for my children?
What I'm asking for here are specific ideas/examples of how some of you did
things back in the day of young children, nursing babies who don't nap, and
so on!
-=-=-=-=-
People ask sometimes why I don't answer *all* posts. This is why! <G>
I essentially have two *onelies* (two boys, eight years apart). Both were BIG nappers, we employed au pairs when the boys were little (I like having "foreigners" in my house! <g>), and I have no problem getting up really early or staying up really late to do what I want/need to do.
I'm worthless with these questions! <g> I'd suggest an au pair! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: John & Karen Buxcel buxcel@...
My question for those of you who are past having YOUNG children:
How did you get things done/stay on top of things. I have children who are
6, 4, 1. I am one of those personalities a bit like Kelly, organized, list
making, need some rhythm and some sort of structure to know what to expect.
How in the WORLD can I have something like this for myself, which I really
crave but can't seem to achieve, and also be there for my children?
What I'm asking for here are specific ideas/examples of how some of you did
things back in the day of young children, nursing babies who don't nap, and
so on!
-=-=-=-=-
People ask sometimes why I don't answer *all* posts. This is why! <G>
I essentially have two *onelies* (two boys, eight years apart). Both were BIG nappers, we employed au pairs when the boys were little (I like having "foreigners" in my house! <g>), and I have no problem getting up really early or staying up really late to do what I want/need to do.
I'm worthless with these questions! <g> I'd suggest an au pair! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/26/2005 10:36:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
buxcel@... writes:
How did you get things done/stay on top of things. I have children who are
6, 4, 1. I am one of those personalities a bit like Kelly, organized, list
making, need some rhythm and some sort of structure to know what to expect.
How in the WORLD can I have something like this for myself, which I really
crave but can't seem to achieve, and also be there for my children?
******************
My kids are a bit older now, 9 and 5, but they are both "high needs" kids.
Plus, my husband is gone frequently. When they were younger, I just had to
surrender to their needs and figure out how to make the best of it. My
structure was to get everyone fed and have some laundry going and a bit of cleaning
done here and there. Otherwise, I HAD to be on their schedule. My toddlers
that didn't nap would usually do so in the car if I timed it well. I would
drive until they slept and then parked and read books or magazines! When
the oldest didn't nap anymore, we would park at home and play in the yard.
Didn't do much for getting things done, but gave me some peace. One friend of
mine had success putting the baby in the stroller to nap and then was able to
bring the stroller in the house.
Now that my kids are a little older, I get up before them and have some "me"
time. I'm starting to implement the same idea of "less available", but mine
is in the morning. I can do a lot before they wake up and then they are
usually happy to play without much input from me for a bit. I'm starting to
"enforce" that a bit more because it makes me much more mentally available in
the afternoon than when I have a running to-do list in my head. So, if my kids
need me in the morning, I'll stop what I'm doing, but if they just want me
for something, I say that I really want to do that, but is it something that
can wait until the afternoon. It has taken a few times, but they are starting
to get the idea and appreciate that I'm really available in the afternoons.
I've read an interesting idea recently about our work and hormone balance
and I must say when I remember to do it, it makes a difference! Since as
SAHM's we don't really have defined times of "work" and "off-work", we can create
them by mentally defining work time. You start your "work day" by saying to
yourself, "now I am at work". You are probably doing the same things as
usual, but mentally declare yourself at work. You should probably take "breaks"
just like you would at a job. My children are also my job, so if they need
me, I am still on the job. I just keep declaring myself at work. Then I
break for lunch. I say to myself "now I am taking some time for lunch". I let
myself think about what has been accomplished and feel proud for something
done for about a minute. This shifts the hormones. I take an hour for lunch
and then mentally "go back to work". Even if I am at the beach, or playing
with the kids, or checking my email, I keep telling myself that I am "at work".
After a few hours, I repeat the process of feeling proud of my afternoon
and that now I am "off work". It really makes a difference in how I feel!
Again, what I am "doing" doesn't change, but just my thoughts about what I was
doing. I also felt less resentful of interruptions by the kids when I was
able to think, "it is all part of the job". I also notice that I usually get
more done.
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
buxcel@... writes:
How did you get things done/stay on top of things. I have children who are
6, 4, 1. I am one of those personalities a bit like Kelly, organized, list
making, need some rhythm and some sort of structure to know what to expect.
How in the WORLD can I have something like this for myself, which I really
crave but can't seem to achieve, and also be there for my children?
******************
My kids are a bit older now, 9 and 5, but they are both "high needs" kids.
Plus, my husband is gone frequently. When they were younger, I just had to
surrender to their needs and figure out how to make the best of it. My
structure was to get everyone fed and have some laundry going and a bit of cleaning
done here and there. Otherwise, I HAD to be on their schedule. My toddlers
that didn't nap would usually do so in the car if I timed it well. I would
drive until they slept and then parked and read books or magazines! When
the oldest didn't nap anymore, we would park at home and play in the yard.
Didn't do much for getting things done, but gave me some peace. One friend of
mine had success putting the baby in the stroller to nap and then was able to
bring the stroller in the house.
Now that my kids are a little older, I get up before them and have some "me"
time. I'm starting to implement the same idea of "less available", but mine
is in the morning. I can do a lot before they wake up and then they are
usually happy to play without much input from me for a bit. I'm starting to
"enforce" that a bit more because it makes me much more mentally available in
the afternoon than when I have a running to-do list in my head. So, if my kids
need me in the morning, I'll stop what I'm doing, but if they just want me
for something, I say that I really want to do that, but is it something that
can wait until the afternoon. It has taken a few times, but they are starting
to get the idea and appreciate that I'm really available in the afternoons.
I've read an interesting idea recently about our work and hormone balance
and I must say when I remember to do it, it makes a difference! Since as
SAHM's we don't really have defined times of "work" and "off-work", we can create
them by mentally defining work time. You start your "work day" by saying to
yourself, "now I am at work". You are probably doing the same things as
usual, but mentally declare yourself at work. You should probably take "breaks"
just like you would at a job. My children are also my job, so if they need
me, I am still on the job. I just keep declaring myself at work. Then I
break for lunch. I say to myself "now I am taking some time for lunch". I let
myself think about what has been accomplished and feel proud for something
done for about a minute. This shifts the hormones. I take an hour for lunch
and then mentally "go back to work". Even if I am at the beach, or playing
with the kids, or checking my email, I keep telling myself that I am "at work".
After a few hours, I repeat the process of feeling proud of my afternoon
and that now I am "off work". It really makes a difference in how I feel!
Again, what I am "doing" doesn't change, but just my thoughts about what I was
doing. I also felt less resentful of interruptions by the kids when I was
able to think, "it is all part of the job". I also notice that I usually get
more done.
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John & Karen Buxcel
on 11/26/05 8:14 AM, Ann at ann_mv05@... wrote:
I try to be really present all day, of course, but the reality is that
laundry does need done, bills do need paid, etc, etc, etc. (and I do enjoy
the occasional shower, if I can manage to squeeze it in!)
My question for those of you who are past having YOUNG children:
How did you get things done/stay on top of things. I have children who are
6, 4, 1. I am one of those personalities a bit like Kelly, organized, list
making, need some rhythm and some sort of structure to know what to expect.
How in the WORLD can I have something like this for myself, which I really
crave but can't seem to achieve, and also be there for my children?
What I'm asking for here are specific ideas/examples of how some of you did
things back in the day of young children, nursing babies who don't nap, and
so on!
Namaste~
Karen
--
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come
alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who
have come alive."
- - Howard Thurman Whitman
> I suppose the main point I wanted to share that really helped my kids' needI love this idea!
> for structure was that I set aside a block of time for them each day. I am
> available all the time, but from 9-12 each morning I am here for ONLY them. I
> don't answer the phone, do house work, run errands, or pursue my own
> interests, I am there and present with them for whatever they need that day.
> They know this is set aside for them, they look forward to it, they save stuff
> for me to do with them during that time because they know my attention is
> undivided. In the afternoon, I start the wash, pay the bills, whatever the
> day calls for... and I am still there, just not undivided like the morning.
> It works for us anyway.:0)
I try to be really present all day, of course, but the reality is that
laundry does need done, bills do need paid, etc, etc, etc. (and I do enjoy
the occasional shower, if I can manage to squeeze it in!)
My question for those of you who are past having YOUNG children:
How did you get things done/stay on top of things. I have children who are
6, 4, 1. I am one of those personalities a bit like Kelly, organized, list
making, need some rhythm and some sort of structure to know what to expect.
How in the WORLD can I have something like this for myself, which I really
crave but can't seem to achieve, and also be there for my children?
What I'm asking for here are specific ideas/examples of how some of you did
things back in the day of young children, nursing babies who don't nap, and
so on!
Namaste~
Karen
--
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come
alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who
have come alive."
- - Howard Thurman Whitman
Ren Allen
"I don't think I could function without structure.
Maybe Ren avoids it!"
I have a disability, it's called SFD, Structure Function Disorder.
Ok, seriously, I don't think my brain really thinks is a very
organized manner...but it depends. If you need some organization
method for a closet, or paperwork (my BANE) you want to talk with my
dh. If you want someone that is good at planning and executing
events, projects or groups, talk to me.
I hate other people's structure imposed on me....but I have come up
with my own haphazard methods of structure that work for ME.
I tend to like freeflowing days, without too much planned, so I can
be spontaneous. I'll keep lists of stuff on the bulletin board and
if I feel like doing something when the date hits, I'll do it.
I don't like planning to attend something and when the date comes I
feel obligated, so I keep obligations to a minimum.
Structure means different things to different people, each family is
going to have different needs that way too...but it never equals
schooling in my world.:)
Ren
Maybe Ren avoids it!"
I have a disability, it's called SFD, Structure Function Disorder.
Ok, seriously, I don't think my brain really thinks is a very
organized manner...but it depends. If you need some organization
method for a closet, or paperwork (my BANE) you want to talk with my
dh. If you want someone that is good at planning and executing
events, projects or groups, talk to me.
I hate other people's structure imposed on me....but I have come up
with my own haphazard methods of structure that work for ME.
I tend to like freeflowing days, without too much planned, so I can
be spontaneous. I'll keep lists of stuff on the bulletin board and
if I feel like doing something when the date hits, I'll do it.
I don't like planning to attend something and when the date comes I
feel obligated, so I keep obligations to a minimum.
Structure means different things to different people, each family is
going to have different needs that way too...but it never equals
schooling in my world.:)
Ren
Ann
I'm bad at this too because I hired Merry Maids to come in once a week. It was the best money I ever spent, tool TONS of stress off me. An added bonus was the day they came was always a fun day out for us.
Ann
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: John & Karen Buxcel buxcel@...
My question for those of you who are past having YOUNG children:
How did you get things done/stay on top of things. I have children who are
6, 4, 1. I am one of those personalities a bit like Kelly, organized, list
making, need some rhythm and some sort of structure to know what to expect.
How in the WORLD can I have something like this for myself, which I really
crave but can't seem to achieve, and also be there for my children?
What I'm asking for here are specific ideas/examples of how some of you did
things back in the day of young children, nursing babies who don't nap, and
so on!
-=-=-=-=-
People ask sometimes why I don't answer *all* posts. This is why! <G>
I essentially have two *onelies* (two boys, eight years apart). Both were BIG nappers, we employed au pairs when the boys were little (I like having "foreigners" in my house! <g>), and I have no problem getting up really early or staying up really late to do what I want/need to do.
I'm worthless with these questions! <g> I'd suggest an au pair! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Ann
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: John & Karen Buxcel buxcel@...
My question for those of you who are past having YOUNG children:
How did you get things done/stay on top of things. I have children who are
6, 4, 1. I am one of those personalities a bit like Kelly, organized, list
making, need some rhythm and some sort of structure to know what to expect.
How in the WORLD can I have something like this for myself, which I really
crave but can't seem to achieve, and also be there for my children?
What I'm asking for here are specific ideas/examples of how some of you did
things back in the day of young children, nursing babies who don't nap, and
so on!
-=-=-=-=-
People ask sometimes why I don't answer *all* posts. This is why! <G>
I essentially have two *onelies* (two boys, eight years apart). Both were BIG nappers, we employed au pairs when the boys were little (I like having "foreigners" in my house! <g>), and I have no problem getting up really early or staying up really late to do what I want/need to do.
I'm worthless with these questions! <g> I'd suggest an au pair! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
When I was worrying out loud on the Always Unschooled list about how
I am drawn, over and over again, to make a schedule and a learning
plan for my son, someone said to me, "Just because you can't organize
HIM and schedule him doesn't mean you can't organize yourself." That
was an a-ha moment for me. What I have done with that is sit down
once a week and look through resource books like Mudpies to Magnets,
Family Math for Young Children, books with craft ideas, or recipes
for cookies or cake. If there's a project or game I think looks like
fun, I make sure we have the supplies or ingredients on hand. I
either strew it or offer it to my son as an option sometime during
the week. It meets my need to plan without pressuring him.
I have also scheduled--loosely--special one-on-one time with my son,
which happens if he wants it as soon as the baby goes down for his
nap. Sometimes he says he is busy with other things; other times he
is happy to read together, work puzzles, play games, do play-dough,
paint, bake something, watch a video together, do a craft--and during
this time I offer him choices from my list of things I have planned,
or just ask him what he would like to do. The "laid-back" part is he
gets to choose; I'm just ready with choices in case he doesn't have
an idea right away. Having it scheduled also helps me discipline
myself to spend that time with him, instead of getting caught up in
crossing things off my to-do list.
Su
I am drawn, over and over again, to make a schedule and a learning
plan for my son, someone said to me, "Just because you can't organize
HIM and schedule him doesn't mean you can't organize yourself." That
was an a-ha moment for me. What I have done with that is sit down
once a week and look through resource books like Mudpies to Magnets,
Family Math for Young Children, books with craft ideas, or recipes
for cookies or cake. If there's a project or game I think looks like
fun, I make sure we have the supplies or ingredients on hand. I
either strew it or offer it to my son as an option sometime during
the week. It meets my need to plan without pressuring him.
I have also scheduled--loosely--special one-on-one time with my son,
which happens if he wants it as soon as the baby goes down for his
nap. Sometimes he says he is busy with other things; other times he
is happy to read together, work puzzles, play games, do play-dough,
paint, bake something, watch a video together, do a craft--and during
this time I offer him choices from my list of things I have planned,
or just ask him what he would like to do. The "laid-back" part is he
gets to choose; I'm just ready with choices in case he doesn't have
an idea right away. Having it scheduled also helps me discipline
myself to spend that time with him, instead of getting caught up in
crossing things off my to-do list.
Su
On Nov 25, 2005, at 10:40 AM, Deborah Donndelinger wrote:
> I'd love to hear a bit from the structured folks how unschooling works
> for them ...
Tina
>>What I have done with that is sit down once a week and lookthrough resource books like Mudpies to Magnets, Family Math for
Young Children, books with craft ideas, or recipes for cookies or
cake. If there's a project or game I think looks like fun, I make
sure we have the supplies or ingredients on hand. I either strew it
or offer it to my son as an option sometime during the week. It
meets my need to plan without pressuring him.>>
I have been kind of struggling in this area. We are two years into
unschooling and absolutely love it. BUT, lately I have been
questioning myself as to whether or not *I* am doing things
correctly. As if there is a right or wrong way, but I do believe
certain situations can be better than others.
I posted earlier jokingly about whether anyone has figured out how
to clone themselves because it feels as though life is throwing
things at me in the speed and quantity of raindrops. Honestly, that
IS what it feels like. My son is an independant soul at heart and
very happy to spend his time alone. Adding to this, so am I. With
everything that has been going on this past year I really feel that
maybe I am short changing him. His favorite things to do are play
PS2, computer games, watch The Simpson, Family Guy and South Park.
Even I have started to watch A LOT of television. I never used to
do that. I was thinking about it while I was reading everyone's
posts and it came to me that I feel like I am "de-lifing". It has
just been feeling SO good to do "nothing" for a change.
How often do you offer an activity? Do you talk about goals and
plan things together regularly? Is it "normal" to spend weeks or
even months not doing much of anything? Is it okay that we only
play a board game less than once per month? How do I involve my
son, almost 12 years, in activities with me? We are usually the
only two at home. The four oldest are young adults living their own
lives. Pat works all day, and the other two younger ones attend
PS. Although, we are making a final decision over Christmas break
about bringing our youngest girl, almost 16, home for good. So, it
may not just be the two of us very soon. I find that exciting!
Anyway, I don't mean to sound negative. I'm just trying to find
myself here. I know some of my examples are silly, but I really
have been feeling like I'm not offering enough. Any advice on how
to get two introverts out and about and off the couch are VERY
welcome...or, permission to stay put is fine too? :-)
Thanks - Tina
Ren Allen
"How often do you offer an activity?"
Depends. I am always on the look out for new things to do (remember,
I'm a spaz that loves to be busy). This equates into local listings
of activities, where I circle everything that looks interesting, run
it past the other members of the house if I see something they might
like, then toss it into a pile of papers and forget about it until
inspiration hits again! Once I get a bulletin board up, they'll be
stuck onto that.
I also had an "idea list" that I kept posted. If anyone came to me
asking for ideas, I had a ready-to-go list of fun things they could
choose from. They usually didn't...but it would get them thinking
and pretty soon they'd be happily off in another direction.
I offer activities whenever *I* feel like doing something, whenever
I see something I think they'd like or whenever the child is
restless and asking for something.
I guess because I'm always wanting to do something (usually cooking
or art related) I will have interested children joining in almost
daily. BUT, I have two older boys that are quite content with their
own activities. Trevor has joined us for almost nothing lately,
Jared a little bit.
"Do you talk about goals and
plan things together regularly?"
Goals? Like family goals or individual ones? If one of the children
has an idea, we talk about how to achieve that...so it's pretty much
as things come along. If Markus and I think of some cool outing we
think the'd like, we go to each of them and ask if they'd like to
come. We probably do some kind of family thing about once a week.
With Markus's work schedule in the past, it wasn't always that
frequent. We're unemployed bums right now, spending every single day
together a family.:) Weekly outings are easy now, with smaller
outings almost daily (Mom and two kids, or Dad and one kid etc..).
"Is it "normal" to spend weeks or
even months not doing much of anything?"
YES. We go through really "dormant" phases, where we aren't very
busy, are happy with what's available at home, don't really feel
like trying anything new....then suddenly we'll all be off wanting
to do a million things. Busy seasons and quiet seasons. We aren't
all timing it the same of course, but there is a family flow to this
I've noticed.
"Is it okay that we only
play a board game less than once per month?"
Only YOU can decide that!! I really don't care for board games, heck
they're still packed.:) Does your child ask to play? Does he wish
you'd play more? I've recently figured out that I really don't care
for most board games because they're lame. We've discovered a
really cool game store that has higher quality, really interesting
games (plus all their D&D stuff) and we're going to get some new
ones. Board games are fun if you enjoy that kind of thing. We go
through phases where they're out every single day, and other times
where we all forget about them for months.
"How do I involve my
son, almost 12 years, in activities with me? "
If he isn't wanting to do activities with you, get into HIS world.
Play HIS games with him. He must be happy with the choices he has,
or you'd know about it right? Sometimes it's hard to wrap our minds
around their very complicated games (ok, maybe that's just me) but I
think if we at least show a geniune interest to understand why they
love it, they can share their world with us. 12 is an age where
both my boys became a lot more independent....wanting to play their
own games and do their own thing more. 'Course they have each other
too.
Enjoy this time!!! Do some fun projects for YOU. I bet if you got a
bunch of fun stuff out, just because YOU want to do it, he'd join in
occasionally. If not, enjoy doing things you love.:) How cool.
Ren
Depends. I am always on the look out for new things to do (remember,
I'm a spaz that loves to be busy). This equates into local listings
of activities, where I circle everything that looks interesting, run
it past the other members of the house if I see something they might
like, then toss it into a pile of papers and forget about it until
inspiration hits again! Once I get a bulletin board up, they'll be
stuck onto that.
I also had an "idea list" that I kept posted. If anyone came to me
asking for ideas, I had a ready-to-go list of fun things they could
choose from. They usually didn't...but it would get them thinking
and pretty soon they'd be happily off in another direction.
I offer activities whenever *I* feel like doing something, whenever
I see something I think they'd like or whenever the child is
restless and asking for something.
I guess because I'm always wanting to do something (usually cooking
or art related) I will have interested children joining in almost
daily. BUT, I have two older boys that are quite content with their
own activities. Trevor has joined us for almost nothing lately,
Jared a little bit.
"Do you talk about goals and
plan things together regularly?"
Goals? Like family goals or individual ones? If one of the children
has an idea, we talk about how to achieve that...so it's pretty much
as things come along. If Markus and I think of some cool outing we
think the'd like, we go to each of them and ask if they'd like to
come. We probably do some kind of family thing about once a week.
With Markus's work schedule in the past, it wasn't always that
frequent. We're unemployed bums right now, spending every single day
together a family.:) Weekly outings are easy now, with smaller
outings almost daily (Mom and two kids, or Dad and one kid etc..).
"Is it "normal" to spend weeks or
even months not doing much of anything?"
YES. We go through really "dormant" phases, where we aren't very
busy, are happy with what's available at home, don't really feel
like trying anything new....then suddenly we'll all be off wanting
to do a million things. Busy seasons and quiet seasons. We aren't
all timing it the same of course, but there is a family flow to this
I've noticed.
"Is it okay that we only
play a board game less than once per month?"
Only YOU can decide that!! I really don't care for board games, heck
they're still packed.:) Does your child ask to play? Does he wish
you'd play more? I've recently figured out that I really don't care
for most board games because they're lame. We've discovered a
really cool game store that has higher quality, really interesting
games (plus all their D&D stuff) and we're going to get some new
ones. Board games are fun if you enjoy that kind of thing. We go
through phases where they're out every single day, and other times
where we all forget about them for months.
"How do I involve my
son, almost 12 years, in activities with me? "
If he isn't wanting to do activities with you, get into HIS world.
Play HIS games with him. He must be happy with the choices he has,
or you'd know about it right? Sometimes it's hard to wrap our minds
around their very complicated games (ok, maybe that's just me) but I
think if we at least show a geniune interest to understand why they
love it, they can share their world with us. 12 is an age where
both my boys became a lot more independent....wanting to play their
own games and do their own thing more. 'Course they have each other
too.
Enjoy this time!!! Do some fun projects for YOU. I bet if you got a
bunch of fun stuff out, just because YOU want to do it, he'd join in
occasionally. If not, enjoy doing things you love.:) How cool.
Ren
Pamela Sorooshian
There is some kind of "panache" among homeschooling families about
board games - like they are "learning" games.
They ARE, of course. Just like everything else, but nothing magical
about them. You can live a good happy unschooling life and never play
a single board game. It is fine.
There are different kinds of games -- I don't like the kinds of games
where you roll dice and move around a board. But my youngest kid
likes those a lot - Monopoly, LIFE, Sorry, and so on.
I like strategy games a lot - like Othello, Pente, Abalone.
Seems like everybody in my family is hooked on doing Sudoku puzzles,
right now. I discovered a whole genre of similar puzzles - some I
like even better than Sudokus.
<http://www.puzzle.jp/en/>
This one that I like most is called "Light Up" - you can play online
and they get harder with each one. On the left side of the page is a
list of the different kinds of puzzles - they are all Japanese names,
this is the website of a Japanese puzzle magazine publisher - Nikoli.
-pam
board games - like they are "learning" games.
They ARE, of course. Just like everything else, but nothing magical
about them. You can live a good happy unschooling life and never play
a single board game. It is fine.
There are different kinds of games -- I don't like the kinds of games
where you roll dice and move around a board. But my youngest kid
likes those a lot - Monopoly, LIFE, Sorry, and so on.
I like strategy games a lot - like Othello, Pente, Abalone.
Seems like everybody in my family is hooked on doing Sudoku puzzles,
right now. I discovered a whole genre of similar puzzles - some I
like even better than Sudokus.
<http://www.puzzle.jp/en/>
This one that I like most is called "Light Up" - you can play online
and they get harder with each one. On the left side of the page is a
list of the different kinds of puzzles - they are all Japanese names,
this is the website of a Japanese puzzle magazine publisher - Nikoli.
-pam
On Nov 27, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
> Only YOU can decide that!! I really don't care for board games, heck
> they're still packed.:) Does your child ask to play? Does he wish
> you'd play more? I've recently figured out that I really don't care
> for most board games because they're lame. We've discovered a
> really cool game store that has higher quality, really interesting
> games (plus all their D&D stuff) and we're going to get some new
> ones. Board games are fun if you enjoy that kind of thing. We go
> through phases where they're out every single day, and other times
> where we all forget about them for months.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ameliegoldstein
Pam,
We like many stratgey games at our house too like Othello, chess,
Go, and a game similar to Pente offically called "Gomoku" (although
we just call it connect-5).
While my dd likes to play these games, and actually got a
computerized chess game for her birthday at her request, she also
likes to play many of the roll-the-die type of games you mentioned.
I don't mind them, and have developed a liking for Clue (which
involves a little logic), but prefer the games mentioned above. They
seem more pure; no luck or chance.
Our family's new favorite game, however, is neither a strategy game
nor a board game, but is called Apples to Apples and is an extremely
fun interactive game of comparisons. There are basically no rules,
and no real winning, because it is all so subjective that you know
you're just playing to have fun. It's based on debate and
persuasion, as well as *making connections*, and definitely breeds
good lawyers :) We also like Set, which is at the opposite end of
the spectrum (silent), but still engaging.
-Amelie
We like many stratgey games at our house too like Othello, chess,
Go, and a game similar to Pente offically called "Gomoku" (although
we just call it connect-5).
While my dd likes to play these games, and actually got a
computerized chess game for her birthday at her request, she also
likes to play many of the roll-the-die type of games you mentioned.
I don't mind them, and have developed a liking for Clue (which
involves a little logic), but prefer the games mentioned above. They
seem more pure; no luck or chance.
Our family's new favorite game, however, is neither a strategy game
nor a board game, but is called Apples to Apples and is an extremely
fun interactive game of comparisons. There are basically no rules,
and no real winning, because it is all so subjective that you know
you're just playing to have fun. It's based on debate and
persuasion, as well as *making connections*, and definitely breeds
good lawyers :) We also like Set, which is at the opposite end of
the spectrum (silent), but still engaging.
-Amelie
Mother Earth (Tyra)
Leslie!
Your description in how you operate with your children makes me feel normal. Especially the part about driving them around until they fell asleep as toddlers and your friend with the stroller. So many people think I am a bit freakish doing it that way but with high need children most of the time it is all about doing what works at the time.
I also have a specific work schedule range in my head. Your description is almost exactly how I do it. But the "work" schedule helps me make mental shifts that I need to make in order to give myself down time and me time. When I did not have my work hours, I felt like what I had to do was endless. I have also made either Sat or Sun a bona fide day to VEGETATE! I don't care if dishes get washed or family gets fed. My hubby is home so he can help with meals. On which ever day I take to veg, I do ONLY what I want to do. Nothing else. Somedays I watch movies and surf the net. Other days, I go on a hike or work in the yard. But the only requirement I have is that I won't do anything that I don't want to do on my Veg day. I am so refreshed by the end of the day that I am ready to tackle daily responsiblities again. It is really helping as I adjust to life as an unschooling familiy.
This is a really great thread and I am learning quite alot. Thank you to all of you!
******************
My kids are a bit older now, 9 and 5, but they are both "high needs" kids.
Plus, my husband is gone frequently. When they were younger, I just had to
surrender to their needs and figure out how to make the best of it. My
structure was to get everyone fed and have some laundry going and a bit of cleaning
done here and there. Otherwise, I HAD to be on their schedule. My toddlers
that didn't nap would usually do so in the car if I timed it well. I would
drive until they slept and then parked and read books or magazines! When
the oldest didn't nap anymore, we would park at home and play in the yard.
Didn't do much for getting things done, but gave me some peace. One friend of
mine had success putting the baby in the stroller to nap and then was able to
bring the stroller in the house.
.
I've read an interesting idea recently about our work and hormone balance
and I must say when I remember to do it, it makes a difference! Since as
SAHM's we don't really have defined times of "work" and "off-work", we can create
them by mentally defining work time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your description in how you operate with your children makes me feel normal. Especially the part about driving them around until they fell asleep as toddlers and your friend with the stroller. So many people think I am a bit freakish doing it that way but with high need children most of the time it is all about doing what works at the time.
I also have a specific work schedule range in my head. Your description is almost exactly how I do it. But the "work" schedule helps me make mental shifts that I need to make in order to give myself down time and me time. When I did not have my work hours, I felt like what I had to do was endless. I have also made either Sat or Sun a bona fide day to VEGETATE! I don't care if dishes get washed or family gets fed. My hubby is home so he can help with meals. On which ever day I take to veg, I do ONLY what I want to do. Nothing else. Somedays I watch movies and surf the net. Other days, I go on a hike or work in the yard. But the only requirement I have is that I won't do anything that I don't want to do on my Veg day. I am so refreshed by the end of the day that I am ready to tackle daily responsiblities again. It is really helping as I adjust to life as an unschooling familiy.
This is a really great thread and I am learning quite alot. Thank you to all of you!
******************
My kids are a bit older now, 9 and 5, but they are both "high needs" kids.
Plus, my husband is gone frequently. When they were younger, I just had to
surrender to their needs and figure out how to make the best of it. My
structure was to get everyone fed and have some laundry going and a bit of cleaning
done here and there. Otherwise, I HAD to be on their schedule. My toddlers
that didn't nap would usually do so in the car if I timed it well. I would
drive until they slept and then parked and read books or magazines! When
the oldest didn't nap anymore, we would park at home and play in the yard.
Didn't do much for getting things done, but gave me some peace. One friend of
mine had success putting the baby in the stroller to nap and then was able to
bring the stroller in the house.
.
I've read an interesting idea recently about our work and hormone balance
and I must say when I remember to do it, it makes a difference! Since as
SAHM's we don't really have defined times of "work" and "off-work", we can create
them by mentally defining work time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina
>>Do some fun projects for YOU. I bet if you got a bunch of funstuff out, just because YOU want to do it, he'd join in
occasionally. If not, enjoy doing things you love.:) How cool.>>
Ren
Thanks for reminding me how important this is. I've given this
advice to others, but somehow I failed to remind myself of the
point. When life gets crazy and not much is going on it's easy for
me to slip into a case of the guilts. I don't think it's second
guessing as much as it is worry of being insufficient.
When we spend a lot of time "hibernating" I seem to fall into
the "worry trap" of kicking myself for not having these so called
cool ideas or activities that he just jumps up to participate in.
Somehow I find myself worrying that I'm not providing enough
stimulation and turn my focus to what we are "not" doing.
I need to turn my focus more to who we are as a family and away from
the stereotypes I've created in my mind from groups, magazines,
books, etc. of what the "perfect" unschooling family's day looks
like. I need to remind myself that we are different and that is a
big part of the awesomeness of unschooling. It's good to be you AND
be different.
It's SO easy to feel like I'm doing something "wrong" if there
aren't these amazing activities going on all the time, or every-so-
often for that matter. Our awesome things seem to come more
quietly. That may just change with a teenage girl around all the
time. <wink>
Thanks for taking the time to comment on each point...even
the "silly" ones. :-)
Tina
Tina
>>There is some kind of "panache" among homeschooling families aboutboard games - like they are "learning" games. They ARE, of course.
Just like everything else, but nothing magical about them. You can
live a good happy unschooling life and never play a single board game.
It is fine.>>
Pam
Thank you SO MUCH for making this point! Man, did I need that reality
check. A lot of focus is put on playing games. That was one of the
points that I made that I considered to be "silly", but it does seem
to cross my mind on a regular basis.
I too LOVE strategy games and appreciate the link. I can't wait to
check it out!
Tina
April
Apples to Apples is a favorite at our house as well. We often have a group
of teens over playing but the great part is that it can be played by a wide
age range. My 10 year old can play with the older kids (they do tend to
'tone down' their answers a bit when he plays) or us really 'older' ones can
join in and have a blast. Kate has asked for another party game for
Christmas. I saw one called "ImaginIff" that looks fun, anyone have any
experience with that one? Or can recommend a different one? They like the
interactive talking games.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ameliegoldstein
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: failing at unschooling
Pam,
We like many stratgey games at our house too like Othello, chess,
Go, and a game similar to Pente offically called "Gomoku" (although
we just call it connect-5).
While my dd likes to play these games, and actually got a
computerized chess game for her birthday at her request, she also
likes to play many of the roll-the-die type of games you mentioned.
I don't mind them, and have developed a liking for Clue (which
involves a little logic), but prefer the games mentioned above. They
seem more pure; no luck or chance.
Our family's new favorite game, however, is neither a strategy game
nor a board game, but is called Apples to Apples and is an extremely
fun interactive game of comparisons. There are basically no rules,
and no real winning, because it is all so subjective that you know
you're just playing to have fun. It's based on debate and
persuasion, as well as *making connections*, and definitely breeds
good lawyers :) We also like Set, which is at the opposite end of
the spectrum (silent), but still engaging.
-Amelie
_____
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
* Visit your group "unschoolingbasics
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics> " on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of teens over playing but the great part is that it can be played by a wide
age range. My 10 year old can play with the older kids (they do tend to
'tone down' their answers a bit when he plays) or us really 'older' ones can
join in and have a blast. Kate has asked for another party game for
Christmas. I saw one called "ImaginIff" that looks fun, anyone have any
experience with that one? Or can recommend a different one? They like the
interactive talking games.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ameliegoldstein
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: failing at unschooling
Pam,
We like many stratgey games at our house too like Othello, chess,
Go, and a game similar to Pente offically called "Gomoku" (although
we just call it connect-5).
While my dd likes to play these games, and actually got a
computerized chess game for her birthday at her request, she also
likes to play many of the roll-the-die type of games you mentioned.
I don't mind them, and have developed a liking for Clue (which
involves a little logic), but prefer the games mentioned above. They
seem more pure; no luck or chance.
Our family's new favorite game, however, is neither a strategy game
nor a board game, but is called Apples to Apples and is an extremely
fun interactive game of comparisons. There are basically no rules,
and no real winning, because it is all so subjective that you know
you're just playing to have fun. It's based on debate and
persuasion, as well as *making connections*, and definitely breeds
good lawyers :) We also like Set, which is at the opposite end of
the spectrum (silent), but still engaging.
-Amelie
_____
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
* Visit your group "unschoolingbasics
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics> " on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/28/2005 7:14:35 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
abmorris23@... writes:
I saw one called "ImaginIff" that looks fun, anyone have any
experience with that one?
We got this last year for Christmas. I loved it. The rest of the family
played it with me a few times but none of them enjoyed it much. An example
from one of the cards:
Imaginiff (one of the other players or a famous person you have chosen to be
an imaginary player) was a type of footwear. Which would he/she be?
Choices: Flip Flops, Jack Boots, Stiletto heels, Nikes, Skippers, Ballet Shoes.
The players all choose one and the player or players who pick the most popular
answer get to move their token forward on the board.
Might just be our family but it wasn't a hit. We love Apples to Apples,
Set, Scattergories and play older games like Monopoly, Scrabble, and Yahtzee.
We recently played a group game called Encore that was a lot of fun. Must be
an older game but I'm planning on getting it for Christmas. My kids are 12
and 16 and we usually play with groups of kids ages 10 through adult.
Gail
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
abmorris23@... writes:
I saw one called "ImaginIff" that looks fun, anyone have any
experience with that one?
We got this last year for Christmas. I loved it. The rest of the family
played it with me a few times but none of them enjoyed it much. An example
from one of the cards:
Imaginiff (one of the other players or a famous person you have chosen to be
an imaginary player) was a type of footwear. Which would he/she be?
Choices: Flip Flops, Jack Boots, Stiletto heels, Nikes, Skippers, Ballet Shoes.
The players all choose one and the player or players who pick the most popular
answer get to move their token forward on the board.
Might just be our family but it wasn't a hit. We love Apples to Apples,
Set, Scattergories and play older games like Monopoly, Scrabble, and Yahtzee.
We recently played a group game called Encore that was a lot of fun. Must be
an older game but I'm planning on getting it for Christmas. My kids are 12
and 16 and we usually play with groups of kids ages 10 through adult.
Gail
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 28, 2005, at 6:05 AM, April wrote:
most fun when people already know each other well.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I saw one called "ImaginIff" that looks fun, anyone have anyVERY fun. We play it at family get-togethers - good for all ages,
> experience with that one?
most fun when people already know each other well.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 28, 2005, at 7:54 AM, gailbrocop@... wrote:
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Might just be our family but it wasn't a hit. We love Apples toAlso add to that same list - Taboo and Guesstures.
> Apples,
> Set, Scattergories and play older games like Monopoly, Scrabble,
> and Yahtzee.
> We recently played a group game called Encore that was a lot of fun.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
DS likes Apples to Apples - but it isn't as much fun with just us 3
to play. We try to remember to bring it when we know there will be a
bunch of people.
Another game that we like is Cadoo - pictionary, charades, and
trivia bits all rolled into one along with a bit of board game
strategy.
There's also one called Chronology that is card based (it is a
bit 'educational' but we never let that stop us lol) - each player
is dealt two cards. Each has a date and an event. They set their
initial parameters or boundaries (each person's set is different
obviously). Then the player to my left draws a card and reads the
event. I have to decide if it is before my early date, after my late
date, or in between. If I choose correctly, I put it into my
timeline. And play moves on to the next person. On my next turn, I
now have 4 choices instead of 3 - before the early, after the late,
between early and new card, between new card and late. Hmm example
might be in order:
If I am dealt: Columbus' first voyage 1492 and NY Mets win the World
Series 1969 and the new card is Stock market crash begins the great
depression in the United States, that would go between my original
cards since that was 1929. Now, on my next turn I would have to
decide whether the new event was pre-1492, between 1492-1929,
between 1929-1969, after 1969. And, yes, there are things pre-1492
(Pyramids built for example is in there - typically those
are "circa" items and there's a special rule for dealing with it if
you have two that potentially overlap). If you draw something with
the same date (say, NY Jets win the Super Bowl which is also 1969)
then as long as I pick a span with 1969 at one end or the other, it
works.
Probably not for really little kids but DS has played it (he's 7
now) and with a bit of help to work things out logically when
possible (like, did they have cars when they were building the
pyramids?) - some stuff catches adults by surprise so a logically
thinking child might even beat an adult depending on what cards are
drawn. First person to assemble a 7 card timeline wins - but you
could change how many cards if you choose. Often the game sort of
goes off track because you start discussing and exploring an event
and the game gets forgotten in the exploration and off we go.
--Deb
to play. We try to remember to bring it when we know there will be a
bunch of people.
Another game that we like is Cadoo - pictionary, charades, and
trivia bits all rolled into one along with a bit of board game
strategy.
There's also one called Chronology that is card based (it is a
bit 'educational' but we never let that stop us lol) - each player
is dealt two cards. Each has a date and an event. They set their
initial parameters or boundaries (each person's set is different
obviously). Then the player to my left draws a card and reads the
event. I have to decide if it is before my early date, after my late
date, or in between. If I choose correctly, I put it into my
timeline. And play moves on to the next person. On my next turn, I
now have 4 choices instead of 3 - before the early, after the late,
between early and new card, between new card and late. Hmm example
might be in order:
If I am dealt: Columbus' first voyage 1492 and NY Mets win the World
Series 1969 and the new card is Stock market crash begins the great
depression in the United States, that would go between my original
cards since that was 1929. Now, on my next turn I would have to
decide whether the new event was pre-1492, between 1492-1929,
between 1929-1969, after 1969. And, yes, there are things pre-1492
(Pyramids built for example is in there - typically those
are "circa" items and there's a special rule for dealing with it if
you have two that potentially overlap). If you draw something with
the same date (say, NY Jets win the Super Bowl which is also 1969)
then as long as I pick a span with 1969 at one end or the other, it
works.
Probably not for really little kids but DS has played it (he's 7
now) and with a bit of help to work things out logically when
possible (like, did they have cars when they were building the
pyramids?) - some stuff catches adults by surprise so a logically
thinking child might even beat an adult depending on what cards are
drawn. First person to assemble a 7 card timeline wins - but you
could change how many cards if you choose. Often the game sort of
goes off track because you start discussing and exploring an event
and the game gets forgotten in the exploration and off we go.
--Deb
John & Karen Buxcel
CATCH PHRASE is so much fun, too! lots of great topics, sure to get
everybody laughing!
also PASS THE PIGS is great. Two little pigs you roll like dice, then
depending on how they land, you score points, so many points for a snouter,
leaning jowler, etc. If you 'pig out' you lose all your points from that
turn. Fun stuff!
namaste~
karen
everybody laughing!
also PASS THE PIGS is great. Two little pigs you roll like dice, then
depending on how they land, you score points, so many points for a snouter,
leaning jowler, etc. If you 'pig out' you lose all your points from that
turn. Fun stuff!
namaste~
karen