Bedtimes & Meal Times
Ellen Oberlin
Hi All,
I am starting to unschool again after about 1-1/2 years of too much
structure. I guess I got scared for a while there. It occured to me
yesterday that since we weren't starting "lessons" at a certaine time in the
morning I didn't really see a point to a certain bedtime. Wouldn't it be
better to let the children learn to go to bed when they were tired? I have
decided to try this as I want them to be able to honor their own needs and
so by over-riding them I certainly wasn't teaching that. Funny how I have
had to learn to honor mine to a greater degree first huh? Well, then I
thought about meal times too. How do you work it with meal times and bed
times? I would like to be able to be flexible so that people in our family
can eat and sleep when they feel the need. But, I also enjoy eating as a
family. In addition what about the nitty gritty about eating out of stuff I
have prepared for certain meals? Do you just not prepare meals as such?
How do you work this? I haven't worked these questions out and am seeking
counsel from those who have been there, done that.
Looking forward to your ideas,
Ellen
I am starting to unschool again after about 1-1/2 years of too much
structure. I guess I got scared for a while there. It occured to me
yesterday that since we weren't starting "lessons" at a certaine time in the
morning I didn't really see a point to a certain bedtime. Wouldn't it be
better to let the children learn to go to bed when they were tired? I have
decided to try this as I want them to be able to honor their own needs and
so by over-riding them I certainly wasn't teaching that. Funny how I have
had to learn to honor mine to a greater degree first huh? Well, then I
thought about meal times too. How do you work it with meal times and bed
times? I would like to be able to be flexible so that people in our family
can eat and sleep when they feel the need. But, I also enjoy eating as a
family. In addition what about the nitty gritty about eating out of stuff I
have prepared for certain meals? Do you just not prepare meals as such?
How do you work this? I haven't worked these questions out and am seeking
counsel from those who have been there, done that.
Looking forward to your ideas,
Ellen
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 18, 2005, at 7:28 AM, Ellen Oberlin wrote:
and talk, whether they eat or not.
One of my kids gets so hungry she's shaky and sometimes even feels
faint. When she needs to eat she needs to eat right NOW. I think the
smell of food being prepared brings this on, too, so very often I'll
be making dinner and she'll come into the kitchen and need to eat. So
- here we are, 20 minutes from a nice meal on the table, and she's
microwaving a hot pocket or French bread pizza. Its okay - she'll eat
now and when we sit down to eat together, she might just have some
salad or maybe even not having anything. But she'll be fed and happy
- not weak and cranky.
We eat as a family a time or two per week. Used to be more often, but
my kids are busy with sports, theater, college, jobs, etc. Still - it
IS nice when it happens. I don't cook often, anymore, either. We eat
out a lot - Subway is our home away from home. Today we all ate
together at Subway after seeing Harry Potter movie. And when I do
cook, we divide up the leftovers into serving-size containers and use
the microwave to heat them up later.
Just make it okay for people to eat whatever they want to eat. Make
it your goal to provide enough good food choices that they're happily
eating when hungry. Sometimes they'll eat together at the table -
sometimes not. You won't know if THEY like family meals unless they
have the freedom to NOT participate.
Bedtimes? When the kids were little I could tell when they were
likely to be ready to fall asleep. I'd call them into the bedroom
(the big waterbed in our room) and we'd lower the lights and put on a
tape (Jim Weiss, often) and we'd snuggle up and half the time we'd
all fall asleep <G>. Sometimes I'd just lower the lights in the
living room and put a video on that the kids had watched many times
before - something soothing. They'd just fall asleep all over the
place and we'd put them in bed later or just cover them up where
they'd fallen asleep.
So - no saying, "It is bedtime," but lots of times saying, "Let's get
some sleep."
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But, I also enjoy eating as aDo others also enjoy eating as a family? If so, they'll come and sit
> family. In addition what about the nitty gritty about eating out
> of stuff I
> have prepared for certain meals? Do you just not prepare meals as
> such?
and talk, whether they eat or not.
One of my kids gets so hungry she's shaky and sometimes even feels
faint. When she needs to eat she needs to eat right NOW. I think the
smell of food being prepared brings this on, too, so very often I'll
be making dinner and she'll come into the kitchen and need to eat. So
- here we are, 20 minutes from a nice meal on the table, and she's
microwaving a hot pocket or French bread pizza. Its okay - she'll eat
now and when we sit down to eat together, she might just have some
salad or maybe even not having anything. But she'll be fed and happy
- not weak and cranky.
We eat as a family a time or two per week. Used to be more often, but
my kids are busy with sports, theater, college, jobs, etc. Still - it
IS nice when it happens. I don't cook often, anymore, either. We eat
out a lot - Subway is our home away from home. Today we all ate
together at Subway after seeing Harry Potter movie. And when I do
cook, we divide up the leftovers into serving-size containers and use
the microwave to heat them up later.
Just make it okay for people to eat whatever they want to eat. Make
it your goal to provide enough good food choices that they're happily
eating when hungry. Sometimes they'll eat together at the table -
sometimes not. You won't know if THEY like family meals unless they
have the freedom to NOT participate.
Bedtimes? When the kids were little I could tell when they were
likely to be ready to fall asleep. I'd call them into the bedroom
(the big waterbed in our room) and we'd lower the lights and put on a
tape (Jim Weiss, often) and we'd snuggle up and half the time we'd
all fall asleep <G>. Sometimes I'd just lower the lights in the
living room and put a video on that the kids had watched many times
before - something soothing. They'd just fall asleep all over the
place and we'd put them in bed later or just cover them up where
they'd fallen asleep.
So - no saying, "It is bedtime," but lots of times saying, "Let's get
some sleep."
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<< How do you work it with meal times and bed
times? I would like to be able to be flexible so that people in our family
can eat and sleep when they feel the need. But, I also enjoy eating as a
family. In addition what about the nitty gritty about eating out of stuff I
have prepared for certain meals? Do you just not prepare meals as such?
which jobs he is generally also fed) we have evolved to a place where we
don't sit down together as often as we used to. One thing that has meant is
that every time we do sit down at the table for a meal it is special and
wonderful. These relatively formal meals also tend to occur on days when dh
is *not* working, since we can make a more definite plan to eat at a
particular time. When he is at work we have no surety that he will be home
at any hour. We still spend a lot time eating at the same times, but
sometimes in different rooms. We eat when we are hungry, and in relation to
when we got out of bed, rather than the clock.
We seem to be finding that breakfast, on the days that dh is not leaving
early, are working out as good together meals. TBH my dh usually has his
breakfast in bed, and Jayn and I eat with him and have giggles and fun.
Part of it is architecture. Our table that should be for dining is generally
covered with ongoing stuff, and we only have two rooms. I think if we had a
more traditional dining room or kitchen nook allocated mostly to the eating
function it would be easier to all eat together. As things stand it is more
work to clear the table (including finding somewhere to put the works in
progress that are situated there) than it is to cook!
So we end up being very casual on the sofa (and floor) with our folding
multi-task tables (As Seen on TV and really very sturdy). James tends to
hang in the bedroom mostly because it is more comfortable for him and he
gets to avoid Jayn's tv shows and watch his own preferences.
I feel like I am constantly preparing small snacks these days, which I don't
mind at all. Jayn is a person who likes to eat a lot of one food at each
meal or snack time, but her caloric intake varies widely day by day or
depending on growth spurts. Last night at 1am Jayn asked for broccoflower
(green cauliflower) so I quickly steamed the head I had and she ate at least
half of it, dipped in soy sauce. This was her pre-sleep snack.
I almost always have sandwich fixings ready to go; Jayn will want a grilled
cheese or ham, whilst dh will like something more fancy like a BLT or
leftover steak with pickles and lettuce. I usually have cooked pasta ready
to be sauced also for quick meals for Jayn and myself. I often have cooked
rice in the fridge ready to be made into fried rice.
I may be in the process of cooking a meal and Jayn is walking around with
the bag of jerky or cookies. I have just let go of any ideas about "spoiled
appetites" or the idea that my "work" of cooking is being wasted or
unappreciated. I get plenty of appreciation for getting all the baking stuff
together and helping Jayn make cookies or cupcakes.
Tonight I cooked a steak for dh and Jayn to share, with mashed potatoes,
sautéed green beans and the leftover broccoflower. We ate at about 8.30 pm.
I was just not hungry so a little bit of potatoes and beans was plenty for
me sitting at my computer at the table in the living room. Dh ate a full
meal in the bedroom at his computer, and Jayn had a tiny bit of meat and
greens and a lot of mashed potato sitting at her own table watching a tv
show in the living room. But that was the closest to a full meal for three
at once that I have cooked in three days due to various other commitments
and time schisms.
Probably we will all eat something else light shortly before sleeping. That
will probably include a popsicle for dh. Jayn is having some yoghurt even as
I write at 10pm, and will probably ask for a corn dog or mac and cheese
later. She also fills up on milk in the evenings. I will probably have an
apple, or some strawberries and whipped topping or some crackers if I feel
hungry again.
We all seem to thrive reasonably well in this fluid manner, which is also
cyclic. It may not suit every family. However one of the joys of Unschooling
is that we are free to create our own rituals and family customs, without
feeling obligated to convention or external time schedules or fearing the
reprobation of society for living in an odd manner.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/175 - Release Date: 11/18/2005
times? I would like to be able to be flexible so that people in our family
can eat and sleep when they feel the need. But, I also enjoy eating as a
family. In addition what about the nitty gritty about eating out of stuff I
have prepared for certain meals? Do you just not prepare meals as such?
>>>>With our sleep schedule, and dh's continually changing work schedule (at
which jobs he is generally also fed) we have evolved to a place where we
don't sit down together as often as we used to. One thing that has meant is
that every time we do sit down at the table for a meal it is special and
wonderful. These relatively formal meals also tend to occur on days when dh
is *not* working, since we can make a more definite plan to eat at a
particular time. When he is at work we have no surety that he will be home
at any hour. We still spend a lot time eating at the same times, but
sometimes in different rooms. We eat when we are hungry, and in relation to
when we got out of bed, rather than the clock.
We seem to be finding that breakfast, on the days that dh is not leaving
early, are working out as good together meals. TBH my dh usually has his
breakfast in bed, and Jayn and I eat with him and have giggles and fun.
Part of it is architecture. Our table that should be for dining is generally
covered with ongoing stuff, and we only have two rooms. I think if we had a
more traditional dining room or kitchen nook allocated mostly to the eating
function it would be easier to all eat together. As things stand it is more
work to clear the table (including finding somewhere to put the works in
progress that are situated there) than it is to cook!
So we end up being very casual on the sofa (and floor) with our folding
multi-task tables (As Seen on TV and really very sturdy). James tends to
hang in the bedroom mostly because it is more comfortable for him and he
gets to avoid Jayn's tv shows and watch his own preferences.
I feel like I am constantly preparing small snacks these days, which I don't
mind at all. Jayn is a person who likes to eat a lot of one food at each
meal or snack time, but her caloric intake varies widely day by day or
depending on growth spurts. Last night at 1am Jayn asked for broccoflower
(green cauliflower) so I quickly steamed the head I had and she ate at least
half of it, dipped in soy sauce. This was her pre-sleep snack.
I almost always have sandwich fixings ready to go; Jayn will want a grilled
cheese or ham, whilst dh will like something more fancy like a BLT or
leftover steak with pickles and lettuce. I usually have cooked pasta ready
to be sauced also for quick meals for Jayn and myself. I often have cooked
rice in the fridge ready to be made into fried rice.
I may be in the process of cooking a meal and Jayn is walking around with
the bag of jerky or cookies. I have just let go of any ideas about "spoiled
appetites" or the idea that my "work" of cooking is being wasted or
unappreciated. I get plenty of appreciation for getting all the baking stuff
together and helping Jayn make cookies or cupcakes.
Tonight I cooked a steak for dh and Jayn to share, with mashed potatoes,
sautéed green beans and the leftover broccoflower. We ate at about 8.30 pm.
I was just not hungry so a little bit of potatoes and beans was plenty for
me sitting at my computer at the table in the living room. Dh ate a full
meal in the bedroom at his computer, and Jayn had a tiny bit of meat and
greens and a lot of mashed potato sitting at her own table watching a tv
show in the living room. But that was the closest to a full meal for three
at once that I have cooked in three days due to various other commitments
and time schisms.
Probably we will all eat something else light shortly before sleeping. That
will probably include a popsicle for dh. Jayn is having some yoghurt even as
I write at 10pm, and will probably ask for a corn dog or mac and cheese
later. She also fills up on milk in the evenings. I will probably have an
apple, or some strawberries and whipped topping or some crackers if I feel
hungry again.
We all seem to thrive reasonably well in this fluid manner, which is also
cyclic. It may not suit every family. However one of the joys of Unschooling
is that we are free to create our own rituals and family customs, without
feeling obligated to convention or external time schedules or fearing the
reprobation of society for living in an odd manner.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/175 - Release Date: 11/18/2005
[email protected]
<<How do you work it with meals and bedtimes?>>
I would just keep doing what you are doing but also keep in mind to say "yes" to the kids as much as you possibly can. When a kid asks if they can stay up because they want to finish a chapter they are reading, say "no problem". When a kid asks to eat in the living room so they can watch a tv show, try to figure out a way so that you will be comfortable with the possibility of spilled chili on your sofa and say "sure". When someone says they aren't hungry at mealtime, let them know the leftovers will be in the fridge if they get hungry.
Ease into it. Don't make a big deal out of it.
Julie S.
I would just keep doing what you are doing but also keep in mind to say "yes" to the kids as much as you possibly can. When a kid asks if they can stay up because they want to finish a chapter they are reading, say "no problem". When a kid asks to eat in the living room so they can watch a tv show, try to figure out a way so that you will be comfortable with the possibility of spilled chili on your sofa and say "sure". When someone says they aren't hungry at mealtime, let them know the leftovers will be in the fridge if they get hungry.
Ease into it. Don't make a big deal out of it.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ellen Oberlin <ellenoberlin@...>
Date: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:28 am
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes & Meal Times
> Hi All,
>
> I am starting to unschool again after about 1-1/2 years of too
> much
> structure. I guess I got scared for a while there. It occured to
> me
> yesterday that since we weren't starting "lessons" at a certaine
> time in the
> morning I didn't really see a point to a certain bedtime.
> Wouldn't it be
> better to let the children learn to go to bed when they were
> tired? I have
> decided to try this as I want them to be able to honor their own
> needs and
> so by over-riding them I certainly wasn't teaching that. Funny
> how I have
> had to learn to honor mine to a greater degree first huh? Well,
> then I
> thought about meal times too. How do you work it with meal times
> and bed
> times? I would like to be able to be flexible so that people in
> our family
> can eat and sleep when they feel the need. But, I also enjoy
> eating as a
> family. In addition what about the nitty gritty about eating out
> of stuff I
> have prepared for certain meals? Do you just not prepare meals as
> such?
> How do you work this? I haven't worked these questions out and am
> seeking
> counsel from those who have been there, done that.
>
> Looking forward to your ideas,
> Ellen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
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Deb
How did we go from bedtimes when DS was littler to no set bedtimes
when he was about 5? I started to head up to bed one evening and DS
said "But I want to watch...It's two episodes back to back tonight"
And I said OK, just turn off the TV and lights when you come up.
That night and a couple nights thereafter he stayed up late. Now we
all generally head upstairs at the same time - but we don't all
necessarily go to sleep right away - we may read, watch a movie or
TV, Dh and DS might play a game on their laptops, etc. Eventually we
all go to sleep - me first typically because I need to get up in the
morning (I head out to work). DS may snuggle a bit then go back to
playing or whatever or he may just fall asleep.
As far as food, if there is a food we know DS likes, we keep lots of
it around so that it need not be 'off limits' because we want it for
a meal plan. And too if we're grating cheese for tacos (for example)
and he starts nibbling the cheese, fine - consider it an appetizer
course. Lots of mix and match meals - cook the pasta then put the
sauce, cheeses, etc separately for each person to choose how to top
their pasta. If there is something that just needs to be used for a
meal (for example, if we have mozzarella specifically for DH's
wonderful lasagna) we'll try to (a) have plenty so taking a handful
or a couple slices is no big deal (b) we provide an alternative -
say, cheddar and crackers, while the lasagna is being prepared and
cooked.
One big thing to consider is that the 'family dinnertime' is touted
as critical because in most families, they haven't seen each other
since the crack of dawn - they grab a quick breakfast (or not) and
head out the door to school and work. They get home mid to late
afternoon and then -dinner-. It's a big deal to reconnect. For an
unschooling family, there's less of that disconnect - most of the
family is gathered most of the day, weaving in and out of each
other's activities. DH generally has dinner about ready when I get
home (he's the at home parent). DS and I and DH will finish prep and
set the table and all together and chat a bit. Then when dinner is
ready we eat. Sometimes DS sits at the table with us, sometimes he
takes it to a stack table in the living room to finish watching
something he was in the middle of - in which case, DH and I get a
nice quiet dinner for two. It's not an either/or situation - those
who want to be at the table can be and those who prefer to eat
later, eat something different, eat elsewhere, can do that. Making
it a cozy family time is more important than where everyone eats or
even whether anyone eats - some nights DS isn't hungry, some nights
I'm not all that hungry so I just nibble a bit and sit and talk with
DH and DS.
I'm not sure what you mean "prepare meals as such" - we prepare
meals but that doesn't mean that no one can eat this or that - it
just means we might need to find alternatives - maybe having cheese
and crackers for dinner with assorted fruits and nuts and what not
(very light, casual) supercedes having tacos with grated cheddar or
it may mean that instead of pizza with mozzarella we use ricotta and
cheddar and parmesan and eat the mozzarella some other time. It may
mean setting crudite on the table to munch at will rather than
tossing ALL the carrots and celery into the soup.
--Deb
when he was about 5? I started to head up to bed one evening and DS
said "But I want to watch...It's two episodes back to back tonight"
And I said OK, just turn off the TV and lights when you come up.
That night and a couple nights thereafter he stayed up late. Now we
all generally head upstairs at the same time - but we don't all
necessarily go to sleep right away - we may read, watch a movie or
TV, Dh and DS might play a game on their laptops, etc. Eventually we
all go to sleep - me first typically because I need to get up in the
morning (I head out to work). DS may snuggle a bit then go back to
playing or whatever or he may just fall asleep.
As far as food, if there is a food we know DS likes, we keep lots of
it around so that it need not be 'off limits' because we want it for
a meal plan. And too if we're grating cheese for tacos (for example)
and he starts nibbling the cheese, fine - consider it an appetizer
course. Lots of mix and match meals - cook the pasta then put the
sauce, cheeses, etc separately for each person to choose how to top
their pasta. If there is something that just needs to be used for a
meal (for example, if we have mozzarella specifically for DH's
wonderful lasagna) we'll try to (a) have plenty so taking a handful
or a couple slices is no big deal (b) we provide an alternative -
say, cheddar and crackers, while the lasagna is being prepared and
cooked.
One big thing to consider is that the 'family dinnertime' is touted
as critical because in most families, they haven't seen each other
since the crack of dawn - they grab a quick breakfast (or not) and
head out the door to school and work. They get home mid to late
afternoon and then -dinner-. It's a big deal to reconnect. For an
unschooling family, there's less of that disconnect - most of the
family is gathered most of the day, weaving in and out of each
other's activities. DH generally has dinner about ready when I get
home (he's the at home parent). DS and I and DH will finish prep and
set the table and all together and chat a bit. Then when dinner is
ready we eat. Sometimes DS sits at the table with us, sometimes he
takes it to a stack table in the living room to finish watching
something he was in the middle of - in which case, DH and I get a
nice quiet dinner for two. It's not an either/or situation - those
who want to be at the table can be and those who prefer to eat
later, eat something different, eat elsewhere, can do that. Making
it a cozy family time is more important than where everyone eats or
even whether anyone eats - some nights DS isn't hungry, some nights
I'm not all that hungry so I just nibble a bit and sit and talk with
DH and DS.
I'm not sure what you mean "prepare meals as such" - we prepare
meals but that doesn't mean that no one can eat this or that - it
just means we might need to find alternatives - maybe having cheese
and crackers for dinner with assorted fruits and nuts and what not
(very light, casual) supercedes having tacos with grated cheddar or
it may mean that instead of pizza with mozzarella we use ricotta and
cheddar and parmesan and eat the mozzarella some other time. It may
mean setting crudite on the table to munch at will rather than
tossing ALL the carrots and celery into the soup.
--Deb
Mother Earth (Tyra)
Hello Ellen,
As my children are young, 5 and 2 yrs respectively, I don't insist that my children go to sleep but I do tell them when it is getting late that it is quiet time and that they need to do quiet things. After a certain point, my boys loud and rowdy play is too much for me and I need quiet time and time for myself. So while I don't have a bedtime, there is a quiet time that usually starts around 8:30 am. They usually pass out pretty quickly, though.
As for meal times we are pretty loose. Actually, I have always been that way with them because they have never wanted to eat when I am ready. Sometimes I prepare what I eat and put some out for them and they may or may not eat it then or later. Sometimes I ask what my older son wants since he is most selective in his tastes. One regular meal time is when my husband gets home but that is a ritual that was started by the children not me. During that time I steal away and happily spend time with myself.
For me all of this has evolved not because I don't like routines, because I do, but because it is the path of least resistance and everyone seems happier.
Best wishes to you and yours!
Tyra
As my children are young, 5 and 2 yrs respectively, I don't insist that my children go to sleep but I do tell them when it is getting late that it is quiet time and that they need to do quiet things. After a certain point, my boys loud and rowdy play is too much for me and I need quiet time and time for myself. So while I don't have a bedtime, there is a quiet time that usually starts around 8:30 am. They usually pass out pretty quickly, though.
As for meal times we are pretty loose. Actually, I have always been that way with them because they have never wanted to eat when I am ready. Sometimes I prepare what I eat and put some out for them and they may or may not eat it then or later. Sometimes I ask what my older son wants since he is most selective in his tastes. One regular meal time is when my husband gets home but that is a ritual that was started by the children not me. During that time I steal away and happily spend time with myself.
For me all of this has evolved not because I don't like routines, because I do, but because it is the path of least resistance and everyone seems happier.
Best wishes to you and yours!
Tyra
----- Original Message -----
From: Ellen Oberlin
To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:28 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes & Meal Times
Hi All,
How do you work it with meal times and bed
times?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]