Ren Allen

"I tend to "hide" from the kids when I'm overwhelmed and of
course it's just a vicious cycle."

Being sensitive to stimulation makes it difficult as a parent....I
think being very proactive in a situation like that really helps.
Don't wait for the "overwhelmed" thing to happen, take steps when
you're feeling calm and centered.
Having many tools in your toolbelt helps...like the stash of toys,
Pam's chopsticks, new games etc..., taking time to sit quietly with a
cup of tea or a bath when everyone is sleeping, whatever feeds your
spirit so you can connect with your children from a loving center.

I have found that when things get tense, a short "meditation walk"
will really help re-focus my energy...or if the kids come along, we
all see new things, find our joy again by being in a new setting.

Just a quick shift into a different place, or different situation can
really change the energy in the house. Going for a drive can do the
same thing. I have a big enough van to keep the children that are
having issues, FAR away from each other.:)

Being present isn't always easy, heck, I forget to listen to my own
advice at times!! We're human, we get cranky, we have hormones and
life issues and frustrations. Luckily, we also have an incredible web
of support (thanks to technology) and a chance to do better every day.

I wake up sometimes and really think about how I will respond THIS
day. Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm
going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do
theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to
be present starting right now. I drink my tea, breathe deeply of the
new day, think about preparing some yummy food they will love to help
start their day off on a positive note.
All this helps me really BE there when they awake and come out for
hugs. Those are the days that things really flow, that I'm not getting
as frustrated (even when challenges arise), because I've made a CHOICE.
Every day isn't going to be smooth...that's just life. But when we
choose mindfulness, choose to be present in each moment, choose to
prepare ourselves for the most important role in our lives...it's
going to be good.

Ren

Brooke North

I have really been struggling this week with different aspects of what
control means and when do suggestions start to cross the line. Yesterday we
were at the

kids museum and every thing was going well I gave the kids the option of
checking out other rooms in the section we were in . For some reason they
both just

stayed with me and the baby , she is two maybe one day I will stop calling
her the baby she likes it, anyway back to the event. I told Skylar that I
was taking

Seth to the bathroom and didn't realize that she was deciding not to come.
She went off to a part of the museum we were not in or around this bother be
a

great deal. I told her when I found her that I was scared not knowing where
she was and had she spoken to me and said I am going to the big ed that
would

be different. But us being that far away still would make me uncomfortable.
I don't know how anyone can be that far away I would feel awful if something


happened to my child. Next we went to mc donalds to play cause we were going
to go to the park and it was going to rain. Well the baby was ready to leave

and tired so I told them we would need to get ready to go cause she was
tired and it was going to be difficult to stay. They started screaming and
stuff and

were no longer listening to me and I felt like I must look real bad. I
finally just sat right outside the play area and asked them to please get
their shoes that

I would wait there for them. I did not want to go on and on with them. Once
I got in the car I lost it a little and raised my voice and told them this
was hard for

me and I felt like they were taking advantage of the fact that I was giving
them more options and that they had to understand when we go out the house

that in certain places that we need to behave in a way that is respectful to
the venue. Like I have and issue with standing on furniture I can not allow
it. How

can I be non coercive and still help them to understand certain boundaries.
Like bed time they went in their room at my suggestion around ten the thing
is I am
bone tired and have had no way to spend time alone or catering to my own
needs and they wanted to keep watching movies past eleven thirty and I could
not
go to sleep it they are awake it is impossible at this age for me to do. So
I had to go into their room and tell them this. They really didn't protest
much and

looked tired themselves and problem would have had trouble sleeping if they
continued to watch movies. So were is the like is there a way to help me see
this.

I am dedicated to this unschooled I see I have more to let go but I am
running ragged and the only thing I am having time to do is sleep.


by the way the twins are five and will be six in febuary

Brooke





On 11/17/05, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "I tend to "hide" from the kids when I'm overwhelmed and of
> course it's just a vicious cycle."
>
> Being sensitive to stimulation makes it difficult as a parent....I
> think being very proactive in a situation like that really helps.
> Don't wait for the "overwhelmed" thing to happen, take steps when
> you're feeling calm and centered.
> Having many tools in your toolbelt helps...like the stash of toys,
> Pam's chopsticks, new games etc..., taking time to sit quietly with a
> cup of tea or a bath when everyone is sleeping, whatever feeds your
> spirit so you can connect with your children from a loving center.
>
> I have found that when things get tense, a short "meditation walk"
> will really help re-focus my energy...or if the kids come along, we
> all see new things, find our joy again by being in a new setting.
>
> Just a quick shift into a different place, or different situation can
> really change the energy in the house. Going for a drive can do the
> same thing. I have a big enough van to keep the children that are
> having issues, FAR away from each other.:)
>
> Being present isn't always easy, heck, I forget to listen to my own
> advice at times!! We're human, we get cranky, we have hormones and
> life issues and frustrations. Luckily, we also have an incredible web
> of support (thanks to technology) and a chance to do better every day.
>
> I wake up sometimes and really think about how I will respond THIS
> day. Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm
> going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do
> theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to
> be present starting right now. I drink my tea, breathe deeply of the
> new day, think about preparing some yummy food they will love to help
> start their day off on a positive note.
> All this helps me really BE there when they awake and come out for
> hugs. Those are the days that things really flow, that I'm not getting
> as frustrated (even when challenges arise), because I've made a CHOICE.
> Every day isn't going to be smooth...that's just life. But when we
> choose mindfulness, choose to be present in each moment, choose to
> prepare ourselves for the most important role in our lives...it's
> going to be good.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Secondary school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g> Graduate
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
> school education online<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg> High
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=BV3EOkp5uIRJ0eqRAZQNcw> Chicago
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>
> ------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> - Visit your group "unschoolingbasics<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>"
> on the web.
> - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
> - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<and really think about how I will respond THIS day>>

I couldn't agree more, Ren. I think taking a look at those "overwhelmed" times and think about what was going on that day and how to re-work things can help.

I know that I MUST be up a good half-hour before the kids if I am to be centered. I keep items to do a couple different things on hand so if we need a shift of energy....things to make chocolate chip cookies, stuff to make a fire in the fireplace, a craft project, etc..

I will also burn incense and turn on calming music. My 7yo son is a bit of a rowdy and when he is getting tired, he can really be in other people's space. He has figured out that the calm music to to help calm the house down and he loves rowdy. When I turn on the music in the kitchen, he has been known to grab his ears and yell "It burns, it burns" until we dissolve into giggles.

You know when you are throwing a party, you think about things like traffic flow, making sure nobody will be hungry or thirsty, making trash cans readily available, what we can do to make it a high energy blow out or a mellow cocktail affair. I think we should do the same things with our days, with our families. Set things in place to help guide the energy.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:13 am
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Intro. etc...

> "I tend to "hide" from the kids when I'm overwhelmed and of
> course it's just a vicious cycle."
>
> Being sensitive to stimulation makes it difficult as a parent....I
> think being very proactive in a situation like that really helps.
> Don't wait for the "overwhelmed" thing to happen, take steps when
> you're feeling calm and centered.
> Having many tools in your toolbelt helps...like the stash of toys,
> Pam's chopsticks, new games etc..., taking time to sit quietly
> with a
> cup of tea or a bath when everyone is sleeping, whatever feeds your
> spirit so you can connect with your children from a loving center.
>
> I have found that when things get tense, a short "meditation walk"
> will really help re-focus my energy...or if the kids come along, we
> all see new things, find our joy again by being in a new setting.
>
> Just a quick shift into a different place, or different situation can
> really change the energy in the house. Going for a drive can do the
> same thing. I have a big enough van to keep the children that are
> having issues, FAR away from each other.:)
>
> Being present isn't always easy, heck, I forget to listen to my own
> advice at times!! We're human, we get cranky, we have hormones and
> life issues and frustrations. Luckily, we also have an incredible web
> of support (thanks to technology) and a chance to do better every
> day.
>
> I wake up sometimes and really think about how I will respond THIS
> day. Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm
> going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do
> theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare
> myself to
> be present starting right now. I drink my tea, breathe deeply of the
> new day, think about preparing some yummy food they will love to help
> start their day off on a positive note.
> All this helps me really BE there when they awake and come out for
> hugs. Those are the days that things really flow, that I'm not getting
> as frustrated (even when challenges arise), because I've made a
> CHOICE.
> Every day isn't going to be smooth...that's just life. But when we
> choose mindfulness, choose to be present in each moment, choose to
> prepare ourselves for the most important role in our lives...it's
> going to be good.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> Give at-risk students the materials they need to succeed at
> DonorsChoose.org!http://us.click.yahoo.com/iEagnA/LpQLAA/HwKMAA/0xXolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

<<the twins are five>>

I too would have been uncomfortable not knowing where my 5yo was. This is very much a juggling act for parents with more than one kid. You want to provide options and sometimes young children have trouble seeing beyond the immediate situation, seeing the dangers or problems their choices may cause someone else.

I have 5 kids, I understand. I think it helps to look at it from the kids' perspective, think of how you would want it handled if you were the kid and then try to do your true best to meet everyone's needs and lots of their wants.

Example: Of course the kids didn't want to leave the play area at the restaurant. They were having a great time. So the question becomes, did you really NEED to leave the restaurant at that time? Or were you just tired of being there? How would you handle it with your dh if you needed him to leave something he thought was important to do something for you? Try to use that same feeling, same tone of voice when you talk with your kids. Would it have helped to talk to the kids before hand about how long you would be able to stay? Did getting grumpy with them help the situation in any way or just make you all miserable?

We go to the park every Tuesday with lots of friends. The kids LOVE it. Problem is that we absolutely must leave by 2:45 so I can get my older daughter to her job. It isn't fair to make her late just because the other kids don't want to leave yet. So we talk a lot about it. I asked the kids how they would like the park handled since we absolutely MUST leave the park after ONLY 3 and half hours <grin>. They asked to make sure we got there early....I strive for us to be the first ones there. They asked to have a warning that it would soon be time to go....I give them a 5 minute warning and then go around and gather all their things for them so they don't have to miss play time.

I guess what I'm saying is that it isn't so much the details of how you handle the situation, that will vary from family to family, situation to situation. But try to respect how things are from your kids' perspective, get their input if there are ongoing problems, truly listen to them and try to go above and beyond for them.

It doesn't mean that there won't be times when the kids still don't want to leave the park, but I know that I have done what I can to lessen the problem for them, I know they at least feel listened to.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: Brooke North <gbnorth@...>
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:51 am
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Intro. etc...

> I have really been struggling this week with different aspects of what
> control means and when do suggestions start to cross the line.
> Yesterday we
> were at the
>
> kids museum and every thing was going well I gave the kids the
> option of
> checking out other rooms in the section we were in . For some
> reason they
> both just
>
> stayed with me and the baby , she is two maybe one day I will stop
> callingher the baby she likes it, anyway back to the event. I told
> Skylar that I
> was taking
>
> Seth to the bathroom and didn't realize that she was deciding not
> to come.
> She went off to a part of the museum we were not in or around this
> bother be
> a
>
> great deal. I told her when I found her that I was scared not
> knowing where
> she was and had she spoken to me and said I am going to the big ed
> thatwould
>
> be different. But us being that far away still would make me
> uncomfortable.I don't know how anyone can be that far away I would
> feel awful if something
>
>
> happened to my child. Next we went to mc donalds to play cause we
> were going
> to go to the park and it was going to rain. Well the baby was
> ready to leave
>
> and tired so I told them we would need to get ready to go cause
> she was
> tired and it was going to be difficult to stay. They started
> screaming and
> stuff and
>
> were no longer listening to me and I felt like I must look real
> bad. I
> finally just sat right outside the play area and asked them to
> please get
> their shoes that
>
> I would wait there for them. I did not want to go on and on with
> them. Once
> I got in the car I lost it a little and raised my voice and told
> them this
> was hard for
>
> me and I felt like they were taking advantage of the fact that I
> was giving
> them more options and that they had to understand when we go out
> the house
>
> that in certain places that we need to behave in a way that is
> respectful to
> the venue. Like I have and issue with standing on furniture I can
> not allow
> it. How
>
> can I be non coercive and still help them to understand certain
> boundaries.Like bed time they went in their room at my suggestion
> around ten the thing
> is I am
> bone tired and have had no way to spend time alone or catering to
> my own
> needs and they wanted to keep watching movies past eleven thirty
> and I could
> not
> go to sleep it they are awake it is impossible at this age for me
> to do. So
> I had to go into their room and tell them this. They really didn't
> protestmuch and
>
> looked tired themselves and problem would have had trouble
> sleeping if they
> continued to watch movies. So were is the like is there a way to
> help me see
> this.
>
> I am dedicated to this unschooled I see I have more to let go but
> I am
> running ragged and the only thing I am having time to do is sleep.
>
>
> by the way the twins are five and will be six in febuary
>
> Brooke
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/17/05, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> >
> > "I tend to "hide" from the kids when I'm overwhelmed and of
> > course it's just a vicious cycle."
> >
> > Being sensitive to stimulation makes it difficult as a parent....I
> > think being very proactive in a situation like that really helps.
> > Don't wait for the "overwhelmed" thing to happen, take steps when
> > you're feeling calm and centered.
> > Having many tools in your toolbelt helps...like the stash of toys,
> > Pam's chopsticks, new games etc..., taking time to sit quietly
> with a
> > cup of tea or a bath when everyone is sleeping, whatever feeds your
> > spirit so you can connect with your children from a loving center.
> >
> > I have found that when things get tense, a short "meditation walk"
> > will really help re-focus my energy...or if the kids come along, we
> > all see new things, find our joy again by being in a new setting.
> >
> > Just a quick shift into a different place, or different
> situation can
> > really change the energy in the house. Going for a drive can do the
> > same thing. I have a big enough van to keep the children that are
> > having issues, FAR away from each other.:)
> >
> > Being present isn't always easy, heck, I forget to listen to my own
> > advice at times!! We're human, we get cranky, we have hormones and
> > life issues and frustrations. Luckily, we also have an
> incredible web
> > of support (thanks to technology) and a chance to do better
> every day.
> >
> > I wake up sometimes and really think about how I will respond THIS
> > day. Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm
> > going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while
> they do
> > theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare
> myself to
> > be present starting right now. I drink my tea, breathe deeply of the
> > new day, think about preparing some yummy food they will love to
> help> start their day off on a positive note.
> > All this helps me really BE there when they awake and come out for
> > hugs. Those are the days that things really flow, that I'm not
> getting> as frustrated (even when challenges arise), because I've
> made a CHOICE.
> > Every day isn't going to be smooth...that's just life. But when we
> > choose mindfulness, choose to be present in each moment, choose to
> > prepare ourselves for the most important role in our lives...it's
> > going to be good.
> >
> > Ren
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Secondary school
> education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g> Graduate
> > school
> education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> > school
> education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
> > school education
> online<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg> High
> > school
> education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=BV3EOkp5uIRJ0eqRAZQNcw> Chicago
> > school
> education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>> ------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > - Visit your group
> "unschoolingbasics<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>"> on the web.
> > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > unschoolingbasics-
> [email protected]<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
> > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> Give at-risk students the materials they need to succeed at
> DonorsChoose.org!http://us.click.yahoo.com/iEagnA/LpQLAA/HwKMAA/0xXolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Brooke North

we always go places without a time schedule and we were at the play area for
three hours the baby was tired and yes it was a lot of me wanting to need
cause of the babies

needs she would have gone crazy cause she can not get comfortable there to
rest she was tired an just wanting to go home we left the house at 10:30 and
it was 3;30 when

I told them we needed to leave so I feel like they had time and the baby had
a need that was needing to be meet maybe next time I should tell them when
we get there that if

the baby gets tired we may have to discuss a time in which to leave would
that be better maybe 30 minute I could handle. We could compromise instead
of me dominate.

On 11/17/05, jnjstau@... <jnjstau@...> wrote:
>
> <<the twins are five>>
>
> I too would have been uncomfortable not knowing where my 5yo was. This is
> very much a juggling act for parents with more than one kid. You want to
> provide options and sometimes young children have trouble seeing beyond the
> immediate situation, seeing the dangers or problems their choices may cause
> someone else.
>
> I have 5 kids, I understand. I think it helps to look at it from the kids'
> perspective, think of how you would want it handled if you were the kid and
> then try to do your true best to meet everyone's needs and lots of their
> wants.
>
> Example: Of course the kids didn't want to leave the play area at the
> restaurant. They were having a great time. So the question becomes, did you
> really NEED to leave the restaurant at that time? Or were you just tired of
> being there? How would you handle it with your dh if you needed him to leave
> something he thought was important to do something for you? Try to use that
> same feeling, same tone of voice when you talk with your kids. Would it have
> helped to talk to the kids before hand about how long you would be able to
> stay? Did getting grumpy with them help the situation in any way or just
> make you all miserable?
>
> We go to the park every Tuesday with lots of friends. The kids LOVE it.
> Problem is that we absolutely must leave by 2:45 so I can get my older
> daughter to her job. It isn't fair to make her late just because the other
> kids don't want to leave yet. So we talk a lot about it. I asked the kids
> how they would like the park handled since we absolutely MUST leave the park
> after ONLY 3 and half hours <grin>. They asked to make sure we got there
> early....I strive for us to be the first ones there. They asked to have a
> warning that it would soon be time to go....I give them a 5 minute warning
> and then go around and gather all their things for them so they don't have
> to miss play time.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that it isn't so much the details of how you
> handle the situation, that will vary from family to family, situation to
> situation. But try to respect how things are from your kids' perspective,
> get their input if there are ongoing problems, truly listen to them and try
> to go above and beyond for them.
>
> It doesn't mean that there won't be times when the kids still don't want
> to leave the park, but I know that I have done what I can to lessen the
> problem for them, I know they at least feel listened to.
>
> Julie S.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brooke North <gbnorth@...>
> Date: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:51 am
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Intro. etc...
>
> > I have really been struggling this week with different aspects of what
> > control means and when do suggestions start to cross the line.
> > Yesterday we
> > were at the
> >
> > kids museum and every thing was going well I gave the kids the
> > option of
> > checking out other rooms in the section we were in . For some
> > reason they
> > both just
> >
> > stayed with me and the baby , she is two maybe one day I will stop
> > callingher the baby she likes it, anyway back to the event. I told
> > Skylar that I
> > was taking
> >
> > Seth to the bathroom and didn't realize that she was deciding not
> > to come.
> > She went off to a part of the museum we were not in or around this
> > bother be
> > a
> >
> > great deal. I told her when I found her that I was scared not
> > knowing where
> > she was and had she spoken to me and said I am going to the big ed
> > thatwould
> >
> > be different. But us being that far away still would make me
> > uncomfortable.I don't know how anyone can be that far away I would
> > feel awful if something
> >
> >
> > happened to my child. Next we went to mc donalds to play cause we
> > were going
> > to go to the park and it was going to rain. Well the baby was
> > ready to leave
> >
> > and tired so I told them we would need to get ready to go cause
> > she was
> > tired and it was going to be difficult to stay. They started
> > screaming and
> > stuff and
> >
> > were no longer listening to me and I felt like I must look real
> > bad. I
> > finally just sat right outside the play area and asked them to
> > please get
> > their shoes that
> >
> > I would wait there for them. I did not want to go on and on with
> > them. Once
> > I got in the car I lost it a little and raised my voice and told
> > them this
> > was hard for
> >
> > me and I felt like they were taking advantage of the fact that I
> > was giving
> > them more options and that they had to understand when we go out
> > the house
> >
> > that in certain places that we need to behave in a way that is
> > respectful to
> > the venue. Like I have and issue with standing on furniture I can
> > not allow
> > it. How
> >
> > can I be non coercive and still help them to understand certain
> > boundaries.Like bed time they went in their room at my suggestion
> > around ten the thing
> > is I am
> > bone tired and have had no way to spend time alone or catering to
> > my own
> > needs and they wanted to keep watching movies past eleven thirty
> > and I could
> > not
> > go to sleep it they are awake it is impossible at this age for me
> > to do. So
> > I had to go into their room and tell them this. They really didn't
> > protestmuch and
> >
> > looked tired themselves and problem would have had trouble
> > sleeping if they
> > continued to watch movies. So were is the like is there a way to
> > help me see
> > this.
> >
> > I am dedicated to this unschooled I see I have more to let go but
> > I am
> > running ragged and the only thing I am having time to do is sleep.
> >
> >
> > by the way the twins are five and will be six in febuary
> >
> > Brooke
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/17/05, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > "I tend to "hide" from the kids when I'm overwhelmed and of
> > > course it's just a vicious cycle."
> > >
> > > Being sensitive to stimulation makes it difficult as a parent....I
> > > think being very proactive in a situation like that really helps.
> > > Don't wait for the "overwhelmed" thing to happen, take steps when
> > > you're feeling calm and centered.
> > > Having many tools in your toolbelt helps...like the stash of toys,
> > > Pam's chopsticks, new games etc..., taking time to sit quietly
> > with a
> > > cup of tea or a bath when everyone is sleeping, whatever feeds your
> > > spirit so you can connect with your children from a loving center.
> > >
> > > I have found that when things get tense, a short "meditation walk"
> > > will really help re-focus my energy...or if the kids come along, we
> > > all see new things, find our joy again by being in a new setting.
> > >
> > > Just a quick shift into a different place, or different
> > situation can
> > > really change the energy in the house. Going for a drive can do the
> > > same thing. I have a big enough van to keep the children that are
> > > having issues, FAR away from each other.:)
> > >
> > > Being present isn't always easy, heck, I forget to listen to my own
> > > advice at times!! We're human, we get cranky, we have hormones and
> > > life issues and frustrations. Luckily, we also have an
> > incredible web
> > > of support (thanks to technology) and a chance to do better
> > every day.
> > >
> > > I wake up sometimes and really think about how I will respond THIS
> > > day. Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm
> > > going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while
> > they do
> > > theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare
> > myself to
> > > be present starting right now. I drink my tea, breathe deeply of the
> > > new day, think about preparing some yummy food they will love to
> > help> start their day off on a positive note.
> > > All this helps me really BE there when they awake and come out for
> > > hugs. Those are the days that things really flow, that I'm not
> > getting> as frustrated (even when challenges arise), because I've
> > made a CHOICE.
> > > Every day isn't going to be smooth...that's just life. But when we
> > > choose mindfulness, choose to be present in each moment, choose to
> > > prepare ourselves for the most important role in our lives...it's
> > > going to be good.
> > >
> > > Ren
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > > Secondary school
> > education<
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g>
> Graduate
> > > school
> > education<
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA>
> Home
> > > school
> > education<
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> Graduate
> > > school education
> > online<
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg>
> High
> > > school
> > education<
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> Chicago
> > > school
> > education<
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>>
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> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
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> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
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> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>
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>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Nov 17, 2005, at 9:22 AM, Brooke North wrote:

> I told them we needed to leave so I feel like they had time and the
> baby had
> a need that was needing to be meet maybe next time I should tell
> them when
> we get there that if
>
> the baby gets tired we may have to discuss a time in which to leave
> would
> that be better maybe 30 minute I could handle. We could compromise
> instead
> of me dominate.

Oh Brooke. The kids' sense of time isn't developed enough for them to
have that kind of thinking - "Well, we've had a lot of playtime,
several hours, and so it is only fair that we depart now, when the
baby is tired." They live FAR more in the moment than that - as they
SHOULD.

No - that is NOT at ALL a reasonable expectation.

If something happens over and over --- like your kids having fun and
wanting to stay somewhere when you feel the need to leave -- then
think outside the box and find a creative way to handle it. I do
think it is fair to say, in advance, "We can probably stay two
hours." Then try to hold out at least as long as you've said you
would. Set a timer so the kids can watch the time remaining easily
and the timer going off will be their signal that it is time to go.
OR say, "We might have to leave any minute."

If it is really hard for them to leave - to make transitions - then
talk about a "way" to do that. For example, you could say, "Let's go
to the car and have our lollipops." My oldest daughter always needed
something to be going "to" rather than feeling she was leaving "from"
something.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

"Set things in place to help guide the energy."

Yes.
At night, when I'm ready to fall face down, I ask the kids to help me
get the house dark and people in their respective quiet areas to help
Jalen transition. If there is anything going on...he will want to be
in the middle of it. I really can only keep my eyes open so long these
days, even being a night owl.:)

I have my time for me in the morning, when everyone is still asleep. I
know at night it isn't going to happen, so I prepare myself for that.
I think it's unrealistic to have alone time at night in a lot of
families, unless the children are ready to wind down earlier...I don't
have that.

As far as transitioning from fun activities, we always talk about any
time constraints ahead of time. When Jalen was smaller, they knew I
would prioritize his needs if he started to get cranky and needed to
go home. Usually, he would nurse and cuddle wherever we were and I
just had to be on the sidelines a bit more. If he really needed to get
away from stimulation though, we left.
I would make dates for going back someplace they loved, or plan a
quick stop on the way home (somewhere we could just pick something up,
like Krispy Kreme) and usually that was good enough. Five is really
young, it's really hard for them to get outside themselves and see
anything beyond what is interesting right NOW..as it should be.

I DO step in and "dictate" sometimes....I don't really like that word,
because it implies no discussion, something we do a lot of. But there
have been times that one child's needs had to be prioritized, that's
the challenge of larger families. It's constant negotiation, problem
solving etc...

Have you ever just gotten the twins attention and said "The baby is
tired and cranky, she really NEEDS to go home, I NEED to go home to
take care of her, what are your ideas for helping us all get what we
need?"
See what they come up with. You might be surprised how willing they
are to offer options if you make them your partners in getting
something accomplished. I've had the full range of "I just want to go
down that slide three more times" (ok, I can work with that) to "You
can go home, I'll stay by myself" (Nope, can't do that one)...
you get the idea though. Negotiate, state needs clearly, let them know
which ideas are workable and which aren't (and why) and I bet you'll
be surprised.
I think stating what you need very clearly also helps.

Ren

Brooke North

Thank you so much just to feel like someone else goes through this and under
stands when one is younger and sometime their needs are to be seen an a
priority.

I really like you suggestion I usually say everything you just said except
what is you opion and now I see that I should do that and maybe offer and
extra 30 min time.

I could have handle the baby playing with her without any melt downs for
that long. My husband has a hard time sometimes he hasn't looked into any of
this yet maybe

he will but he feels we should not take them anywhere if they are not able
to respect the people in the place we are in especial peoples houses. His
mother can be

real hard on my twins that really bothers me she always thinks they are
doing things on purpose trying to hurt dogs at her house. I know that if
they are thought to be bad

by someone in a place that we are in they react the way they are expect to
by that person. So I really don't like to go places that people have pre
judged my kids and

my parenting. My husband mom just sent and email to me about this toy she
bought the kids to be at her house that Seth took home cause he absolutely
loves it

it goes to a huge set of pop ons and doesn't seem it should matter that he
keep it she said something about kids needing to learn what borrowing thing
and taking things.

Ahh he wasn't intending to forget to give it back and I will take it back
next time he has lost interest in it so I could easily get it and take it
back and he would not notice.

I feel she implies control and she seems to have no clue how a kids mind
works he is not an adult and can not be forced to think as an adult. I have
taken them to peoples

houses with dogs and they were wonderful with the dogs they love all kinds
of animals and they are not premeditating to hurt anyone. She has made some
suggestions

that she thinks Skylar would purposely hurt the baby I told her it bothered
me that she was saying this and that it would so far from the truth. Things
are not always this

bad with my husbands mother but I don't feel she listens to me and respects
my feelings. She wants to force affection on the kids and gets angry truly
when they cry cause

she hurt them by not really be couscous of weither they were ready for a
hug. I like it when she comes over here there are to many things I have to
worry about over at her

house cause she tends to have way to many expectations. If there was a way
to talk to her about her approach maybe things could be a little better. I
think the way

my husbands mother is has rubed off on him a little and it may take sometime
for him to see the affects of the new approach and relize we need to see
that we are so

much like the children and we to can be irrational and we to need someone to
listen and not just demand for us to see it from their perspective. I have a
lot to learn

I know how my husband works the more I addapt to the non coerion style the
easier it will be for him to do the same. He mirro's how he sees me treat
them. I will have

to devolop even more patients in my life. This makes me feel tired right
know.

On 11/17/05, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "Set things in place to help guide the energy."
>
> Yes.
> At night, when I'm ready to fall face down, I ask the kids to help me
> get the house dark and people in their respective quiet areas to help
> Jalen transition. If there is anything going on...he will want to be
> in the middle of it. I really can only keep my eyes open so long these
> days, even being a night owl.:)
>
> I have my time for me in the morning, when everyone is still asleep. I
> know at night it isn't going to happen, so I prepare myself for that.
> I think it's unrealistic to have alone time at night in a lot of
> families, unless the children are ready to wind down earlier...I don't
> have that.
>
> As far as transitioning from fun activities, we always talk about any
> time constraints ahead of time. When Jalen was smaller, they knew I
> would prioritize his needs if he started to get cranky and needed to
> go home. Usually, he would nurse and cuddle wherever we were and I
> just had to be on the sidelines a bit more. If he really needed to get
> away from stimulation though, we left.
> I would make dates for going back someplace they loved, or plan a
> quick stop on the way home (somewhere we could just pick something up,
> like Krispy Kreme) and usually that was good enough. Five is really
> young, it's really hard for them to get outside themselves and see
> anything beyond what is interesting right NOW..as it should be.
>
> I DO step in and "dictate" sometimes....I don't really like that word,
> because it implies no discussion, something we do a lot of. But there
> have been times that one child's needs had to be prioritized, that's
> the challenge of larger families. It's constant negotiation, problem
> solving etc...
>
> Have you ever just gotten the twins attention and said "The baby is
> tired and cranky, she really NEEDS to go home, I NEED to go home to
> take care of her, what are your ideas for helping us all get what we
> need?"
> See what they come up with. You might be surprised how willing they
> are to offer options if you make them your partners in getting
> something accomplished. I've had the full range of "I just want to go
> down that slide three more times" (ok, I can work with that) to "You
> can go home, I'll stay by myself" (Nope, can't do that one)...
> you get the idea though. Negotiate, state needs clearly, let them know
> which ideas are workable and which aren't (and why) and I bet you'll
> be surprised.
> I think stating what you need very clearly also helps.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Secondary school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g> Graduate
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
> school education online<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg> High
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=BV3EOkp5uIRJ0eqRAZQNcw> Chicago
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> ------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brooke North

Just forget anything I have said up to this point today I am so tired I have
turned into a jumbely (a word from Brooke's very own dictionary) mess. I
will be contemplating how I can change a lot more and not on how anyone else
can change to suite me especial the kids.

They deserve what I can become if I truly internalize and let the best of me
shine though. I need to learn even when I am so tired I feel like my body
will fall on the floor and just give out to tap into that reserve of
patients.

For more on words from my very own dictionary tune in. I make up my own word
cause I think the sound like what I want them to mean I will not give up on
these words despite the on going battle of Witt's they were crying out to
exist.

See I told I am a jumbely mess today.

On 11/17/05, Brooke North <gbnorth@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you so much just to feel like someone else goes through this and
> under stands when one is younger and sometime their needs are to be seen an
> a priority.
>
> I really like you suggestion I usually say everything you just said except
> what is you opion and now I see that I should do that and maybe offer and
> extra 30 min time.
>
> I could have handle the baby playing with her without any melt downs for
> that long. My husband has a hard time sometimes he hasn't looked into any of
> this yet maybe
>
> he will but he feels we should not take them anywhere if they are not able
> to respect the people in the place we are in especial peoples houses. His
> mother can be
>
> real hard on my twins that really bothers me she always thinks they are
> doing things on purpose trying to hurt dogs at her house. I know that if
> they are thought to be bad
>
> by someone in a place that we are in they react the way they are expect to
> by that person. So I really don't like to go places that people have pre
> judged my kids and
>
> my parenting. My husband mom just sent and email to me about this toy she
> bought the kids to be at her house that Seth took home cause he absolutely
> loves it
>
> it goes to a huge set of pop ons and doesn't seem it should matter that he
> keep it she said something about kids needing to learn what borrowing thing
> and taking things.
>
> Ahh he wasn't intending to forget to give it back and I will take it back
> next time he has lost interest in it so I could easily get it and take it
> back and he would not notice.
>
> I feel she implies control and she seems to have no clue how a kids mind
> works he is not an adult and can not be forced to think as an adult. I have
> taken them to peoples
>
> houses with dogs and they were wonderful with the dogs they love all kinds
> of animals and they are not premeditating to hurt anyone. She has made some
> suggestions
>
> that she thinks Skylar would purposely hurt the baby I told her it
> bothered me that she was saying this and that it would so far from the
> truth. Things are not always this
>
> bad with my husbands mother but I don't feel she listens to me and
> respects my feelings. She wants to force affection on the kids and gets
> angry truly when they cry cause
>
> she hurt them by not really be couscous of weither they were ready for a
> hug. I like it when she comes over here there are to many things I have to
> worry about over at her
>
> house cause she tends to have way to many expectations. If there was a way
> to talk to her about her approach maybe things could be a little better. I
> think the way
>
> my husbands mother is has rubed off on him a little and it may take
> sometime for him to see the affects of the new approach and relize we need
> to see that we are so
>
> much like the children and we to can be irrational and we to need someone
> to listen and not just demand for us to see it from their perspective. I
> have a lot to learn
>
> I know how my husband works the more I addapt to the non coerion style the
> easier it will be for him to do the same. He mirro's how he sees me treat
> them. I will have
>
> to devolop even more patients in my life. This makes me feel tired right
> know.
>
> On 11/17/05, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@... > wrote:
> >
> > "Set things in place to help guide the energy."
> >
> > Yes.
> > At night, when I'm ready to fall face down, I ask the kids to help me
> > get the house dark and people in their respective quiet areas to help
> > Jalen transition. If there is anything going on...he will want to be
> > in the middle of it. I really can only keep my eyes open so long these
> > days, even being a night owl.:)
> >
> > I have my time for me in the morning, when everyone is still asleep. I
> > know at night it isn't going to happen, so I prepare myself for that.
> > I think it's unrealistic to have alone time at night in a lot of
> > families, unless the children are ready to wind down earlier...I don't
> > have that.
> >
> > As far as transitioning from fun activities, we always talk about any
> > time constraints ahead of time. When Jalen was smaller, they knew I
> > would prioritize his needs if he started to get cranky and needed to
> > go home. Usually, he would nurse and cuddle wherever we were and I
> > just had to be on the sidelines a bit more. If he really needed to get
> > away from stimulation though, we left.
> > I would make dates for going back someplace they loved, or plan a
> > quick stop on the way home (somewhere we could just pick something up,
> > like Krispy Kreme) and usually that was good enough. Five is really
> > young, it's really hard for them to get outside themselves and see
> > anything beyond what is interesting right NOW..as it should be.
> >
> > I DO step in and "dictate" sometimes....I don't really like that word,
> > because it implies no discussion, something we do a lot of. But there
> > have been times that one child's needs had to be prioritized, that's
> > the challenge of larger families. It's constant negotiation, problem
> > solving etc...
> >
> > Have you ever just gotten the twins attention and said "The baby is
> > tired and cranky, she really NEEDS to go home, I NEED to go home to
> > take care of her, what are your ideas for helping us all get what we
> > need?"
> > See what they come up with. You might be surprised how willing they
> > are to offer options if you make them your partners in getting
> > something accomplished. I've had the full range of "I just want to go
> > down that slide three more times" (ok, I can work with that) to "You
> > can go home, I'll stay by myself" (Nope, can't do that one)...
> > you get the idea though. Negotiate, state needs clearly, let them know
> > which ideas are workable and which aren't (and why) and I bet you'll
> > be surprised.
> > I think stating what you need very clearly also helps.
> >
> > Ren
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Secondary school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g> Graduate
> > school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> > school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
> > school education online<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg> High
> > school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=BV3EOkp5uIRJ0eqRAZQNcw> Chicago
> > school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>
> > ------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > - Visit your group "unschoolingbasics<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>"
> > on the web.
> > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
> > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Nov 17, 2005, at 11:31 AM, Brooke North wrote:

> I feel she implies control and she seems to have no clue how a kids
> mind
> works he is not an adult and can not be forced to think as an adult.

RIGHT.

Good for YOU for knowing that. Really it sometimes seems that hardly
anybody can remember what it felt like to be, and think like, a child.

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Ren, this post was so wonderful that I wanted to forward it to my local group. when I got over there I found out that someone had beat me to it. :o)

Thanks for a great sig line.

--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CorvallisTLC/

"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting right now."
~Ren Allen






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brooke North

I was badly abused as a kid so I remember quite well what it was like. I
have not like the way that I have be dealing with the kids but for many
reasons outside of myself felt I had no options.

Now that I have found unschooled I am dedicated to learn as fast as I can
today I really relapsed I just get crazy inside. I have a Harmony problem I
know it but because I such a butt

I refused to take any doctors meds it will have to be an alternative med or
nothing serious I grew up struggling with some health issues nothing big and
nothing I have been given has

ever helped. I am not sure if I should take progesterone or estrogen. My
problems started after my last birth any suggestions on where I should look
anyone else into natural methods of

healing. I refuse to this problem for another and really that is what you
end up doing with so many modern methods. I think I should read my book by
Patti Diamond tonight after everyone settles down

that will help provide me with the inspiration I need to be more creative
with how we get through our day tomorrow. The sun will bring another chance
for me we will succeed and I will grow stonger for the five of

us. I don't want to take away anyones rights but I feel for know on if it
concerns my kids I might have to take a family member aside and say try this
they will respond to you giving them a choice and not deciding
for them.

On 11/17/05, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2005, at 11:31 AM, Brooke North wrote:
>
> > I feel she implies control and she seems to have no clue how a kids
> > mind
> > works he is not an adult and can not be forced to think as an adult.
>
> RIGHT.
>
> Good for YOU for knowing that. Really it sometimes seems that hardly
> anybody can remember what it felt like to be, and think like, a child.
>
> -pam
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Secondary school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g> Graduate
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
> school education online<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg> High
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=BV3EOkp5uIRJ0eqRAZQNcw> Chicago
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>
> ------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> - Visit your group "unschoolingbasics<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>"
> on the web.
> - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
> - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

"I need to learn even when I am so tired I feel like my body
will fall on the floor and just give out to tap into that reserve of
patients."

Patience, yes. But also stating YOUR needs and letting people know you
need to sleep, or pause, or whatever you need right then.
Sure, we put our needs on the backburner many times with very young
children, but if you're their ally, they will want to help you get
what you need (provided you state what you need clearly!).

Ren

Ren Allen

"I don't want to take away anyones rights but I feel for know on if it
concerns my kids I might have to take a family member aside and say
try this
they will respond to you giving them a choice and not deciding
for them."

Your main concern is your children's rights, not your mil's.
Talking to her might only cause a rift, and still not protect your
children. I would make up some excuse as to why you can't come over,
and then invite her over once in a while.
Just until you feel strong enough to really be their advocate.

I suggest doing it in the moment though, not taking her aside and
telling her how to be a Grandparent. I have found that if I am my
child's advocate right when something happens, family learns real
quick to back off.

Stand up for them, but try to avoid situations where she'll be likely
to have issues. Pick a neutral place where they can be kids and she
won't feel like jumping in....maybe meet her at Chuck E. Cheese or the
park or something?

Ren

Brooke North

The only options is her coming to our house my mom is a chucke cheese
grandma. Mil she is to self absorb and always having emotional problems to
take she wouldn't want to go.

Honestly I have noticed her control issue go towards everyone around her and
she doesn't practice self control if she wants to spend money and has none
she will not limit herself

She will also go out on the band by herself falling down endangering herself
for what to prove a point get her faster or I will hurt myself I am so tired
of the whole thing it is getting old

I could be the same way and it just steams me up that she is unwilling to
take responsibility for her choices and give others choices when it comes to
her feelings. She lost her husband

to suicide so if she needs anything she calls my husband and has no fore
thought as to what his other responsibilities are and if she doesn't get
immediate response then she complains

to so many people it makes me seriously mad. My husband goes over there and
he does things for her and she is never thankful she just complains a day or
two latter about the next

list and I mean list of things she needs and in her mind her is responsible
and her other two kids do nothing for her. Her daughter lives in London and
you could guess why, not my husband

though he feels a need to deal with it cause what if she gets more ill and
does what his dad did. What a weight for him to carry mean while I kinda get
last in line for being taking care

of. It is not that bad and I love him and understand him and think he is so
caring but it is hard when mil is so unappreciative I just want to scream
wake up. I have told her in the past that

I feel this is the case and I do it very carefully but everything I say she
just seems to say oh I appreciate and not hear a darn thing. Her other son
and herself can not get along

he will not put up with her control issues if she demand go look at the bank
and see all the work I did he says in a hurry I am busy got a go. I saw it
finally he feels like she is giving him no

options. She truly is one of the sweetest ladies and I don't want to make it
sound all bad but sometimes I wish she would wake up so she could live life
more fully and have better relationships

all around. The baby will always like her but if she doesn't change her tune
the twins will not ever feel bonded to her the way they do to my mom.
Because my mom has problems but she

accepts them the way they are and doesn't care what they do if they are bad
by perceptions or good by perceptions it is all the same they are precious.
I know mil see this but she has to

treat them that way and stop giving them bad looks when they don't hug her
they are so loving they would love on her so much if it wasn't scheduled to
her mind set of goodbyes hellos and when she

feels like it without asking ahhh. Let them run up to you when they are
ready that is a gift that I truly enjoy. You know as flawed and a work in
progress I am I hear everyday from my children I love you mom

You are the best mommy in the world. Crazy and I never asked for it once or
taught them how to say it like my mom did to me. I can really be a mess but
I see when I am wrong and work on it

It really bothers me when people don't try to learn new things about
themselves. I don't need to be right okay I said it. So what is it worth it
happiness to me comes from learning how to complete myself so

that I can be a light for others.

On 11/17/05, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "I don't want to take away anyones rights but I feel for know on if it
> concerns my kids I might have to take a family member aside and say
> try this
> they will respond to you giving them a choice and not deciding
> for them."
>
> Your main concern is your children's rights, not your mil's.
> Talking to her might only cause a rift, and still not protect your
> children. I would make up some excuse as to why you can't come over,
> and then invite her over once in a while.
> Just until you feel strong enough to really be their advocate.
>
> I suggest doing it in the moment though, not taking her aside and
> telling her how to be a Grandparent. I have found that if I am my
> child's advocate right when something happens, family learns real
> quick to back off.
>
> Stand up for them, but try to avoid situations where she'll be likely
> to have issues. Pick a neutral place where they can be kids and she
> won't feel like jumping in....maybe meet her at Chuck E. Cheese or the
> park or something?
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Secondary school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g> Graduate
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
> school education online<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg> High
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=BV3EOkp5uIRJ0eqRAZQNcw> Chicago
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>
> ------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> - Visit your group "unschoolingbasics<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>"
> on the web.
> - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
> - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

I though I would try this idea for getting in sync a bit:
http://thebodyblues.com/whatis.html



Brooke North wrote:
> I have a Harmony problem I know it but because I such a butt I
> refused to take any doctors meds it will have to be an alternative
> med or nothing serious I grew up struggling with some health issues
> nothing big and nothing I have been given has ever helped. I am not
> sure if I should take progesterone or estrogen. My problems started
> after my last birth any suggestions on where I should look anyone
> else into natural methods of healing. I refuse to this problem for
> another and really that is what you end up doing with so many modern
> methods. I think I should read my book by Patti Diamond tonight after
> everyone settles down that will help provide me with the inspiration
> I need to be more creative with how we get through our day tomorrow.
> The sun will bring another chance for me we will succeed and I will
> grow stonger for the five of us.



__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/

k

I don't have 4 or 5 kids but what Ren says about letting others in on
what your needs are works even with small children. Ds isn't quite 2
1/2 yet and he gets it when I say I can't stay up anymore.. I gotta lay

down for a while. He's sympathetic to needs for sleep. Most boys need

a lot, going by the ones I've met. When I was a small child, I didn't
need a lot myself and couldn't see why people had to have so much
sleep.
I'm still not a good napper, which leads straight to a bigger need
for
night time sleep now that I'm older, especially since I'm experiencing
insomnia which I never used to have except in college, which doesn't
really count.

Yeh. Now I recognize how differently people are built, and how
important it is to make room for all the stages individuals in a family

experience.

Going right into... of course ds can't always sleep when we're ready to

sleep. When ds was little I was rarely tired at all because he slept a

LOT. Now that he's older and more lively, bahhh ZZZzzzzzzzzzz I'm not
getting near as much rest. Can't imagine doing this routine with 4 or
5
children simulaneously. *Kudos* to those that do!

Sometimes ds stays up watching tv with dh. Other times he'll lay
fidgeting until he can drift off. If he can't drift off, he gets
impatient and dozey ole me (going off to a well frequented back burner)

wakes up enough to talk to him about listening to the wind, the dogs
barking outside, the cars going by... I sing to him, recite lines from
favorite stories, and give him all those familiar things to settle down

with. Simply nursing no longer does the trick every time. I've just
lately started doing a lot of more talking him down to sleep.

Kathe





Ren Allen wrote:
> "I need to learn even when I am so tired I feel like my body will
> fall on the floor and just give out to tap into that reserve of
> patients."
>
> Patience, yes. But also stating YOUR needs and letting people know
> you need to sleep, or pause, or whatever you need right then. Sure,
> we put our needs on the backburner many times with very young
> children, but if you're their ally, they will want to help you get
> what you need (provided you state what you need clearly!).
>
> Ren



__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/

k

Yep. Ds is like that. He needs something to go toward. Maybe he's
goal oriented. He hates to leave anywhere especially if other kids are

there. He's an only. Leaving the library was really hard yesterday.
The kids there were showing him how to play games on the computer while

he wore headphones. We had been there quite some time, which didn't
matter to ds of course. He cried to break your heart when I asked to
leave. We had to get to the post office before it closed. Dh is
working late this week and some overdue and soon to be due bills had to

be paid (hence the post office trip). Bills that aren't available to
pay online. :-ppp Inconvenient things.

Ds was in dire need of a nap on top of everything else. It was one of
those marathon days I try to avoid, and I didn't do such a hot job of
avoiding yesterday's marathon. I much prefer short trips here and
there. I finally remembered the bananas in the car that he could go
for. Poor guy. It wasn't enough to give him solace for leaving the
library but he ate a bite or so then fell asleep before he finished.

Kathe



Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
> If it is really hard for them to leave - to make transitions - then
> talk about a "way" to do that. For example, you could say, "Let's go

> to the car and have our lollipops." My oldest daughter always needed

> something to be going "to" rather than feeling she was leaving "from"

> something.



__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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