Millie Rosa

"How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate, or what
leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?"
Robyn L. Coburn

William needs more socialization, and this is obvious to me in the following ways:
When he is somewhere where there are a lot of children, he holds on to me and does not want to go play...like he hasn't yet learned that kids are fun to play with!

Sometimes with some of his playthings, some of his games, we reach the end of his and my imagination...I know if he or we were playing with others, that more fun could be invented or extracted from the experience. You know, just like we all need different perspectives, ideas, experience, and opinions.

He just needs some other playmates besides Mama!
{I have been too chicken to add another human to our family yet, LOL! But it seems like I really need to start considering it. Will seems lonely...he's still so attached I am afraid he won't want to share his Mama...he'll have less attention and he needs so much of me. Or else the poor little baby won't get so much AP!
This is stupid, but I think about my poor dog, Daisy. She was my baby, slept next to me every night, rode up front everywhere I went...I sang songs to her all the time, shared my ice cream. And now she is just a dog...she lives outside and I don't sing to her much anymore. I know I won't neglect Will if I have an infant....actually, I don't...how can you give undivided attention to two people at the same time...I have found this to be a problem with dh and ds already. You gals with MANY children...I just don't understand how you can do it. I thought I wanted a big family, too, but I don't know if I can manage more than one baby and a dh at a time!}

Whoa, so sorry to veer so far OT! I hope we are friends; I'm sending it anyway!
Love, Millie
lllkju


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Millie Rosa

"How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate, or what
leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?"
Robyn L. Coburn

William needs more socialization, and this is obvious to me in the following ways:
When he is somewhere where there are a lot of children, he holds on to me and does not want to go play...like he hasn't yet learned that kids are fun to play with!

Sometimes with some of his playthings, some of his games, we reach the end of his and my imagination...I know if he or we were playing with others, that more fun could be invented or extracted from the experience. You know, just like we all need different perspectives, ideas, experience, and opinions.

He just needs some other playmates besides Mama!
{I have been too chicken to add another human to our family yet, LOL! But it seems like I really need to start considering it. Will seems lonely...he's still so attached I am afraid he won't want to share his Mama...he'll have less attention and he needs so much of me. Or else the poor little baby won't get so much AP!
This is stupid, but I think about my poor dog, Daisy. She was my baby, slept next to me every night, rode up front everywhere I went...I sang songs to her all the time, shared my ice cream. And now she is just a dog...she lives outside and I don't sing to her much anymore. I know I won't neglect Will if I have an infant....actually, I don't...how can you give undivided attention to two people at the same time...I have found this to be a problem with dh and ds already. You gals with MANY children...I just don't understand how you can do it. I thought I wanted a big family, too, but I don't know if I can manage more than one baby and a dh at a time!}

Whoa, so sorry to veer so far OT! I hope we are friends; I'm sending it anyway!
Love, Millie
lllkju <----Will's two

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TreeGoddess

On Jun 16, 2004, at 1:43 PM, Millie Rosa wrote:

> William needs more socialization, and this is obvious to me in the
> following ways: When he is somewhere where there are a lot of
> children, he holds on to me and does not want to go play...like he
> hasn't yet learned that kids are fun to play with!

To me, that actually sounds like the opposite of needing *more*
socialization. Obviously, you know your son and I don't, but from what
you wrote it sounds like he's not ready for a group setting and/or he's
had some negative experiences with other kids. I don't view
"socialization" as something to get your child "used to". Shoving them
into a group of kids, to me, is just as cruel as tossing them into the
lake to get them used to the water. KWIM?

> Sometimes with some of his playthings, some of his games, we reach the
> end of his and my imagination...I know if he or we were playing with
> others, that more fun could be invented or extracted from the
> experience.

Not necessarily. Possible, yes, but not the obvious outcome that it
sounds like you imagine it to be. :)

> He just needs some other playmates besides Mama!

Does he really? How old is he? I don't think I saw you post his age.
That makes a big difference sometimes.

> This is stupid, but I think about my poor dog, Daisy. She was my
> baby, slept next to me every night, rode up front everywhere I
> went...I sang songs to her all the time, shared my ice cream. And now
> she is just a dog...she lives outside and I don't sing to her much
> anymore.

Why does she have to live outside now? Was she an inside dog before
you had a child? I have 2 dogs and they're inside dogs. They actually
don't seem to LIKE going outside in the yard even just to go to the
bathroom. LOL They don't get as MUCH attention as they used to from
me, but they get a ton from my kids now so it all balances out. ;)

Here's a link to an article by Lisa Russell called "No Thank You, We
Don't Believe in Socialization" http://www.tnhomeed.com/LRSocial.html

There's lots of stuff out there about socialization and also about how
it really is OK for your child to be "attached" to you. :) I like
http://www.naturalchild.org/home -- especially the articles by Naomi
Aldort at http://www.naturalchild.org/naomi_aldort/index.html and Jan
Hunt at
http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/index.html

Warmly,
-Tracy-

moonwindstarsky

I hope this doesn't sound offensive.
It sounds like she's implying that her child needs to be pushed
further out away from her like her dog and go a separate way (maybe
not too much but something like that).

--- In [email protected], TreeGoddess
<treegoddess@c...> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 2004, at 1:43 PM, Millie Rosa wrote:
>
> > This is stupid, but I think about my poor dog, Daisy. She was
my
> > baby, slept next to me every night, rode up front everywhere I
> > went...I sang songs to her all the time, shared my ice cream.
And now
> > she is just a dog...she lives outside and I don't sing to her
much
> > anymore.
>

Jon and Rue Kream

>>When he is somewhere where there are a lot of children, he holds on to me
and does not want to go play...

**Hi Millie - He's two? I really would not worry about him still wanting to
hold onto you in social situations. I think the more you *don't* push him
to socialize the better off he'll be. When he's ready to get into the thick
of things he will.

What is he doing that's leading you to believe he's lonely? ~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<> William needs more socialization, and this is obvious to me in the
> following ways: When he is somewhere where there are a lot of
> children, he holds on to me and does not want to go play...like he
> hasn't yet learned that kids are fun to play with!

To me, that actually sounds like the opposite of needing *more*
socialization. Obviously, you know your son and I don't, but from what
you wrote it sounds like he's not ready for a group setting and/or he's
had some negative experiences with other kids. I don't view
"socialization" as something to get your child "used to". Shoving them
into a group of kids, to me, is just as cruel as tossing them into the
lake to get them used to the water. KWIM?>>>>

I just want to reiterate my original question here was about socializ-ING,
as in being with people in social situations, not the much broader and
"weaponized" (against homeschoolers AND sometimes against schooled children)
concept of Socialization. This is another area where we are choosing a
lifestyle of trusting in and honoring our children's individuality and
development. I probably could have written a whole "buzz words" post just
about that one, but I think others have it covered. I endorse the online
articles that were mentioned.

My reasons for asking the question were, firstly, that I was interested in
other folks insights into more of the non-verbal cues that their children
were giving. It's easy when you have a gregarious child who is always
saying, "Who am I meeting today?" Jayn is sometimes like that, but usually
it is harder to get her out of the house, even if she was keen earlier in
the day. She sometimes seems eager to meet up with a friend, then loses
enthusiasm once we get there. She definitely does better with one playmate,
than several, except occasionally. As I said, she is clearer about her "not"
desires than her "yes" desires. I have learnt the futility of taking her
somewhere she does not wish to go, in terms of play dates or the park, as
she will rarely engage with anyone, sometimes hurting feelings by being
aloof, and we always leave quickly.

Secondly I thought it might spark some interesting discussions and thoughts.

Some meanings from dictionary sources:

so·cial·ize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ssh-lz)
v. so·cial·ized, so·cial·iz·ing, so·cial·iz·es
v. tr.
1. To place under government or group ownership or control. [public school?]
2. To make fit for companionship with others; make sociable.
3. To convert or adapt to the needs of society.

v. intr.
To take part in social activities.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition

so·cial·i·za·tion (ssh-l-zshn)
n.

The process of learning interpersonal and interactional skills that are in
conformity with the values of one's society.

socialization

n 1: the act of meeting for social purposes; "there was too much
socialization with the enlisted men" [syn: socialisation, socializing]
2: the adoption of the behavior patterns of the surrounding culture [syn:
socialisation, acculturation]


On a related note: I have the hardest time getting past the fact that Jayn
absolutely seems to adore a child (our neighbor 6.5yo) that neither my dh
nor I like in the slightest. She has to be watched every second when she is
here, especially since recently she keeps trying to touch Jayn's private
parts, and follows her to the bathroom, and has even tried to take Jayn to
the bathroom with her. She is very sexual it seems to me, her favorite TV
show is clearly a teem program and she talks about boyfriends etc. She tries
to get Jayn to take part in secrets with her, that are basically about her
trying to get around the myriad of rules that her mother has - like sneaking
candy. It is very hard since we have no food restrictions of any kind, but
the other girl has a "weight problem" and mucho restrictions, according to
her mother. Very definitely traditional ordinary parents with constant
punishing, including ear grabbing.

Robyn L. Coburn


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TreeGoddess

On Jun 16, 2004, at 8:19 PM, Robyn Coburn wrote:

> My reasons for asking the question were, firstly, that I was
> interested in
> other folks insights into more of the non-verbal cues that their
> children
> were giving. It's easy when you have a gregarious child who is always
> saying, "Who am I meeting today?" Jayn is sometimes like that, but
> usually
> it is harder to get her out of the house, even if she was keen earlier
> in
> the day.

Robyn,

My DS (5) is sometimes verbal about wanting to get together with
friends. Often he'll ask to play with a specific friend or ask when
we're going to go to their house again. Sometimes I need to put
together clues in order to get out of the house / go on an outing.
Especially watching my DD (3) because she doesn't ask to go play with
so-and-so or anything. When my kids are bouncing off the walls or
being mean to each other (and it's not due to hunger or being tired)
then that's my cue to gather everyone up and head to a park, or the
zoo, or a museum, or my mom's. Just a change of scenery is what is
needed for us -- though not necessarily a "play date" per se.

Having said that....it's often hard to get both kids dressed and out
the door. :) They'll both be so excited about going
wherever-we're-going and I end up chasing them around putting on a sock
here, pants here, etc. It's not uncommon for me to dress one, go to
dress the other, then need to re-dress the first one because they've
since removed their socks or -- in the case of my DD -- her panties!
It's sometimes exhausting for me just to get them out the door. LOL

I don't know if that answered your question or not though. ;)
-Tracy-